ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Leila Takayama - Social scientist
Leila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction.

Why you should listen

Leila Takayama is an acting associate professor of Psychology at the University of California, Santa Cruz, where she founded and leads the Re-Embodied Cognition Lab. Her lab examines how people make sense of, interact with, and relate to new technologies. Prior to academia, she was a researcher at GoogleX and Willow Garage, where she developed a taste for working alongside engineers, designers, animators, and more. Her interdisciplinary research continues in her current work on what happens when people interact with robots and through robots.

Takayama is a World Economic Forum Global Futures Council Member and Young Global Leader. In 2015, she was presented the IEEE Robotics & Automation Society Early Career Award. In 2012, she was named a TR35 winner and one of the 100 most creative people in business by Fast Company. She completed her PhD in Communication at Stanford University in 2008, advised by Professor Clifford Nass. She also holds a PhD minor in Psychology from Stanford, a master's degree in Communication from Stanford, and bachelor's of arts degrees in Psychology and Cognitive Science from UC Berkeley (2003). During her graduate studies, she was a research assistant in the User Interface Research (UIR) group at Palo Alto Research Center (PARC).

Photo: Melissa DeWitt

More profile about the speaker
Leila Takayama | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxPaloAlto

Leila Takayama: What's it like to be a robot?

Leila Takayama: Kako je to biti robotom?

Filmed:
1,183,118 views

Mi već živimo među robotima: alatima i uređajima poput perilice posuđa i termostata koji su toliko sjedinjeni s našim životom da ih ni ne smatramo robotima. Kako bi budućnost s još više robota izgledala? Socijalna znanstvenica Leila Takayama dijeli neke od jedinstvenih izazova dizajniranja za ljudsko-robotske interakcije te kako nas eksperimentiranje s budućnošću robota, zapravo, vodi prema boljem razumijevanju nas samih.
- Social scientist
Leila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
You only get one chanceprilika
to make a first impressionutisak,
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Imate samo jednu priliku
napraviti prvi dojam,
00:15
and that's truepravi if you're a robotrobot
as well as if you're a personosoba.
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a to je istina ako ste robot
i ako ste osoba.
00:18
The first time that I metsastali
one of these robotsroboti
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Prvi put kad sam upoznala
jednog od ovih robota
00:21
was at a placemjesto
calledzvao WillowVrba GarageGaraža in 2008.
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bilo je u mjestu
nazvanom Willow Garage u 2008.
00:24
When I wentotišao to visitposjetiti there,
my hostdomaćin walkedhodao me into the buildingzgrada
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Kad sam bila u posjetu tamo,
domaćin me uveo u zgradu
00:27
and we metsastali this little guy.
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i upoznali smo onog malenog.
00:29
He was rollingvaljanje into the hallwayhodnik,
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Dokotrljao se hodnikom,
00:30
camedošao up to me, satsat there,
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došao do mene, sjeo,
00:32
staredzurio blanklyravnodušno pastprošlost me,
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buljio u prazno iza mene,
00:35
did nothing for a while,
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mirovao neko vrijeme,
00:36
rapidlybrzo spunpreden his headglava around 180 degreesstupnjeva
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ubrzano okrenuo glavu za 180 stupnjeva
00:38
and then ranran away.
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i onda pobjegao.
00:40
And that was not a great first impressionutisak.
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To nije bio dobar prvi dojam.
00:42
The thing that I learnednaučeno
about robotsroboti that day
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Ono što sam naučila od robota tog dana
00:44
is that they kindljubazan of do theirnjihov ownvlastiti thing,
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je da se oni ponašaju nekako na svoju ruku
00:46
and they're not totallypotpuno awaresvjestan of us.
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i da nas nisu sasvim svjesni.
00:49
And I think as we're experimentingeksperimentiranje
with these possiblemoguće robotrobot futuresbudućnosti,
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Smatram da eksperimentiranjem
s ovim mogućim budućnostima robota,
00:52
we actuallyzapravo endkraj up learningučenje
a lot more about ourselvessebe
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zapravo učimo puno više o sebi,
00:54
as opposedZa razliku to just these machinesstrojevi.
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za razliku od ovih strojeva.
00:56
And what I learnednaučeno that day
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Ono što sam naučila tog dana
00:58
was that I had prettyprilično highvisok
expectationsočekivanja for this little dudeStari.
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je da sam imala dosta
visoka očekivanja od ovog mališana.
01:01
He was not only supposedtrebala to be ableu stanju
to navigateploviti the physicalfizička worldsvijet,
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On je trebao znati navigirati
ne samo fizičkim svijetom,
01:04
but alsotakođer be ableu stanju
to navigateploviti my socialsocijalni worldsvijet --
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već i mojim društvenim svijetom.
01:07
he's in my spaceprostor; it's a personalosobni robotrobot.
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On je u mom prostoru, to je osobni robot.
01:09
wWhybi vratila didn't it understandrazumjeti me?
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Zašto me nije razumio?
01:11
My hostdomaćin explainedobjašnjen to me,
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Moj domaćin mi je objasnio:
01:12
"Well, the robotrobot is tryingtežak
to get from pointtočka A to pointtočka B,
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"Pa, robot želi doći
od točke A do točke B,
01:16
and you were an obstacleprepreka in his way,
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a ti si mu bila prepreka na putu
01:17
so he had to replanponovno planiranje his pathstaza,
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pa je morao ponovno isplanirati svoj put,
01:19
figurelik out where to go,
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shvatiti kuda ići
01:21
and then get there some other way,"
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i onda stići tamo na neki drugi način",
01:22
whichkoji was actuallyzapravo
not a very efficientučinkovit thing to do.
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što, zapravo, nije vrlo učinkovito.
01:25
If that robotrobot had figuredshvaćen out
that I was a personosoba, not a chairstolica,
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Da je taj robot shvatio
da ja nisam stolica nego osoba,
01:28
and that I was willingspreman
to get out of its way
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da sam mu se mogla maknuti s puta
01:30
if it was tryingtežak to get somewherenegdje,
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ako je pokušavao stići negdje,
01:32
then it actuallyzapravo
would have been more efficientučinkovit
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onda bi bio učinkovitiji
01:34
at gettinguzimajući its jobposao doneučinio
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u izvršavanju svoje zadaće,
01:35
if it had botheredsmeta
to noticeobavijest that I was a humanljudski
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da se potrudio primijetiti da sam čovjek
01:38
and that I have differentdrugačiji affordancesAffordances
than things like chairsstolice and wallszidovi do.
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i da imam drukčiju pristupačnost
od stvari poput stolica i zidova.
01:41
You know, we tendskloni to think of these robotsroboti
as beingbiće from outervanjski spaceprostor
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Znate, volimo misliti o ovim robotima
kao o nečemu iz svemira,
01:45
and from the futurebudućnost
and from scienceznanost fictionfikcija,
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iz budućnosti i znanstvene fantastike,
01:47
and while that could be truepravi,
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no, dok to možda i jest istina,
01:48
I'd actuallyzapravo like to argueraspravljati
that robotsroboti are here todaydanas,
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zapravo tvrdim da su roboti ovdje danas
01:51
and they liveživjeti and work
amongstmeđu us right now.
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te da oni žive i rade među nama već sada.
01:54
These are two robotsroboti that liveživjeti in my home.
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Ova dva robota žive u mom domu.
01:57
They vacuumvakuum the floorspodovi
and they cutrez the grasstrava
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Usisavaju podove i kose travu
01:59
everysvaki singlesingl day,
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svakog dana,
02:00
whichkoji is more than I would do
if I actuallyzapravo had time to do these taskszadaci,
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što je više nego što bih sama čistila
da zapravo imam vremena za te zadatke,
02:04
and they probablyvjerojatno
do it better than I would, too.
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a oni to vjerojatno rade bolje od mene.
02:06
This one actuallyzapravo takes carebriga of my kittymače.
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Ovaj se zapravo brine za mog mačka.
02:09
EverySvaki singlesingl time
he usesnamjene the boxkutija, it cleansčisti it,
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Svaki put kad on obavi nuždu
u pijesak, robot to počisti,
02:11
whichkoji is not something I'm willingspreman to do,
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jer to nije nešto što sam voljna raditi
02:13
and it actuallyzapravo makesmarke
his life better as well as minerudnik.
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pa mu čini život lakšim kao i moj.
02:16
And while we call these robotrobot productsproizvodi --
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Iako zovemo te robote proizvodima;
02:18
it's a "robotrobot vacuumvakuum cleanerčistač,
it's a robotrobot lawnmowerkosilica,
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"to je robotski usisavač",
"to je robotska kosilica",
02:21
it's a robotrobot littlerLittler boxkutija,"
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"to je robotska kutija s pijeskom",
02:22
I think there's actuallyzapravo a bunchmnogo
of other robotsroboti hidingskrivanje in plainobičan sightvid
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smatram da, zapravo, ima hrpa
drugih robota skrivenih na otvorenom
02:27
that have just becomepostati so darnProkleto usefulkoristan
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koji su postali toliko vražje korisni
02:28
and so darnProkleto mundanezemaljski
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i toliko vražje svakodnevni,
02:30
that we call them things
like, "dishwasherperilica posuđa," right?
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da ih zovemo stvarima
poput "perilice posuđa", zar ne?
02:32
They get newnovi namesimena.
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Oni dobiju nova imena.
02:34
They don't get calledzvao robotrobot anymoreviše
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Njih više ne zovemo robotima
02:35
because they actuallyzapravo
serveposlužiti a purposesvrha in our livesživot.
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jer oni, zapravo,
imaju svrhu u našim životima.
02:38
SimilarlyNa sličan način, a thermostattermostat, right?
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Slično kao termostat, zar ne?
02:39
I know my roboticsRobotika friendsprijatelji out there
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Znam da su moji prijatelji robotičari
02:41
are probablyvjerojatno cringingtresu
at me callingzvanje this a robotrobot,
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vjerojatno sada ustuknuli
jer njega zovem robotom,
02:44
but it has a goalcilj.
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ali on ima cilj.
02:45
Its goalcilj is to make my housekuća
66 degreesstupnjeva FahrenheitFahrenheit,
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Njegov cilj je održavati
moju kuću toplom na 18°C
02:48
and it sensesosjetila the worldsvijet.
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i on osjeća svijet.
02:49
It knowszna it's a little bitbit coldhladno,
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Zna da je zahladilo,
02:51
it makesmarke a planplan and then
it actsdjela on the physicalfizička worldsvijet.
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napravi plan i onda
djeluje u fizičkom svijetu.
02:53
It's roboticsRobotika.
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To je robotika.
02:55
Even if it mightmoć not
look like RosieRosie the RobotRobota,
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Iako ne izgleda kao robot Rosie iz crtića,
02:57
it's doing something
that's really usefulkoristan in my life
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on radi nešto uistinu korisno u mom životu
03:00
so I don't have to take carebriga
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da se ja ne moram brinuti
03:02
of turningtokarenje the temperaturetemperatura
up and down myselfsebe.
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o pojačavanju ili smanjivanju temperature.
03:04
And I think these systemssustavi
liveživjeti and work amongstmeđu us now,
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Smatram da ovi sustavi
žive i rade među nama sada
03:08
and not only are these systemssustavi
livingživot amongstmeđu us
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i ne samo da žive među nama,
03:10
but you are probablyvjerojatno
a robotrobot operatoroperatora, too.
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nego vi njima, također,
vjerojatno i upravljate.
03:13
When you drivepogon your carautomobil,
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Kad vozite svoj auto,
03:14
it feelsosjeća like you are operatingradni machinerystrojevi.
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imate osjećaj kao da
upravljate mašinerijom.
03:17
You are alsotakođer going
from pointtočka A to pointtočka B,
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Vozite od točke A do točke B,
03:19
but your carautomobil probablyvjerojatno has powervlast steeringupravljanja,
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ali vaš auto vjerojatno
ima servo upravljanje,
03:22
it probablyvjerojatno has automaticAutomatsko brakingkočenje systemssustavi,
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vjerojatno ima automatsku kočnicu,
03:24
it mightmoć have an automaticAutomatsko transmissionprijenos
and maybe even adaptiveprilagodljiv cruisekrstarenje controlkontrolirati.
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možda ima automatski mjenjač i možda
ima prilagodljivu kontrolu upravljanja.
03:28
And while it mightmoć not be
a fullypotpuno autonomousautonoman carautomobil,
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I dok možda nije potpuno autonoman auto,
03:31
it has bitskomadići of autonomyautonomija,
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ima djeliće autonomije
03:32
and they're so usefulkoristan
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koji su toliko korisni
03:34
and they make us drivepogon safersigurniji,
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da vozimo sigurnije zbog njih,
03:36
and we just sortvrsta of feel
like they're invisible-in-usenevidljiv u primjeni, right?
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a jednostavno osjećamo
kao da su nevidljivi, zar ne?
03:39
So when you're drivingvožnja your carautomobil,
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Tako da kad vozite
03:41
you should just feel like
you're going from one placemjesto to anotherjoš.
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trebali biste se osjećati kao
da idete od jednog mjesta prema drugom.
03:44
It doesn't feel like it's this bigvelika thing
that you have to dealdogovor with and operateraditi
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Ne čini se kao da je to neka velika stvar
s kojom se morate nositi i upravljati
03:48
and use these controlskontrole
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i koristiti ove kontrole,
03:49
because we spentpotrošen so long
learningučenje how to drivepogon
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jer smo toliko vremena
proveli učeći kako voziti,
03:51
that they'vešto ga do becomepostati
extensionsproširenja of ourselvessebe.
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da su oni postali produžeci nas samih.
03:54
When you parkpark that carautomobil
in that tighttijesan little garagegaraža spaceprostor,
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Kad parkirate taj auto
u ono usko mjesto u garaži,
03:57
you know where your cornerskutovi are.
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znate gdje su vam uglovi.
03:58
And when you drivepogon a rentalnajam carautomobil
that maybe you haven'tnisu drivenupravljan before,
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Ali, onda kad vozite iznajmljeni auto
koji možda nikad niste vozili,
potrebno je neko vrijeme
da se naviknete na svoje robotsko tijelo.
04:02
it takes some time
to get used to your newnovi robotrobot bodytijelo.
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04:05
And this is alsotakođer truepravi for people
who operateraditi other typesvrste of robotsroboti,
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To je istina i za ljude
koju upravljaju drugim vrstama robota,
04:09
so I'd like to sharePodjeli with you
a fewnekoliko storiespriče about that.
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zato bih htjela podijeliti s vama
par priča o tome.
04:12
DealingKoje se bave with the problemproblem
of remotedaljinski collaborationkolaboracija.
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O nošenju s problemom udaljene suradnje.
04:14
So, at WillowVrba GarageGaraža
I had a coworkersuradnika namedpod nazivom DallasDallas,
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Dakle, u Willow Garageu
imala sam kolegu zvanog Dallas
04:17
and DallasDallas lookedgledao like this.
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i Dallas je izgledao ovako.
04:18
He workedradio from his home in IndianaIndiana
in our companydruštvo in CaliforniaCalifornia.
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Radio je od kuće u Indiani
u našoj tvrtci u Kaliforniji.
04:22
He was a voiceglas in a boxkutija
on the tablestol in mostnajviše of our meetingssastanci,
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On je bio glas u kutiji
na stolu na većini naših sastanaka,
04:25
whichkoji was kindljubazan of OK
exceptosim that, you know,
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što je bilo u redu, osim što, znate,
ako bismo imali neku žestoku raspravu
i nije nam se sviđalo što bi govorio,
04:28
if we had a really heatedgrijani debatedebata
and we didn't like what he was sayingizreka,
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04:31
we mightmoć just hangobjesiti up on him.
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samo bismo prekinuli poziv.
04:32
(LaughterSmijeh)
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(Smijeh)
Onda bismo mogli održati
sastanak nakon tog sastanka
04:33
Then we mightmoć have a meetingsastanak
after that meetingsastanak
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04:36
and actuallyzapravo make the decisionsodluke
in the hallwayhodnik afterwardsposlije
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i, zapravo, donijeti odluke u hodniku,
kada njega više nije bilo.
04:38
when he wasn'tnije there anymoreviše.
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Tako da to nije bilo baš super za njega.
04:40
So that wasn'tnije so great for him.
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A kao tvrtka robotike u Willowu,
04:41
And as a roboticsRobotika companydruštvo at WillowVrba,
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imali smo nekoliko
dodatnih dijelova robota uokolo,
04:43
we had some extraekstra
robotrobot bodytijelo partsdijelovi layingpolaganje around,
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04:46
so DallasDallas and his buddyprijatelj CurtKurt
put togetherzajedno this thing,
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tako da su Dallas i njegov
prijatelj Curt sastavili ovo,
04:48
whichkoji looksizgled kindljubazan of
like SkypeSkype on a stickštap on wheelskotači,
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što izgleda poput Skypea
na štapu s kotačima,
što se čini kao smiješna,
mehanička igračka,
04:51
whichkoji seemsčini se like a techyrazdražljiv, sillyglup toyigračka,
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04:53
but really it's probablyvjerojatno
one of the mostnajviše powerfulsnažan toolsalat
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ali stvarno je vjerojatno
jedan od najmoćnijih alata
koje sam ikad vidjela,
stvorenih za udaljenu suradnju.
04:56
that I've seenvidio ever madenapravljen
for remotedaljinski collaborationkolaboracija.
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04:59
So now, if I didn't answerodgovor
Dallas'Dallas' emaile questionpitanje,
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Pa tako, ako ne bih odgovorila
na Dallasovo pitanje u e-mailu,
05:02
he could literallydoslovce rollsvitak into my officeured,
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on bi se mogao doslovno
dokotrljati u moj ured,
05:04
blockblok my doorwayvrata
and askpitati me the questionpitanje again --
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blokirati mi izlazak i ponovno
mi postaviti pitanje...
05:07
(LaughterSmijeh)
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(Smijeh)
...dok mu ne bih odgovorila.
05:08
untildo I answeredodgovorio it.
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05:09
And I'm not going to turnskretanje him off, right?
That's kindljubazan of rudeprimitivan.
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A ja ga neću ugasiti, zar ne?
To se čini pomalo nepristojnim.
05:12
Not only was it good
for these one-on-onejedan na jedan communicationskomunikacije,
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Ne samo da je bilo dobro za
ove razgovore jedan na jedan,
05:15
but alsotakođer for just showingpokazivanje up
at the companydruštvo all-handszahtjevnu meetingsastanak.
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već i za grupne sastanke u tvrtci.
05:18
GettingDobivanje your buttguza in that chairstolica
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Dovući se na tu stolicu
05:20
and showingpokazivanje people that you're presentpredstaviti
and committedpredan to your projectprojekt
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i pokazati ljudima da ste prisutni
i odani svom projektu
05:23
is a bigvelika dealdogovor
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je velika stvar
05:24
and can help remotedaljinski collaborationkolaboracija a tontona.
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i može uvelike pomoći udaljenoj suradnji.
05:26
We saw this over the periodrazdoblje
of monthsmjeseci and then yearsgodina,
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Vidjeli smo to u razdoblju
od par mjeseci, zatim i godina,
05:29
not only at our companydruštvo
but at othersdrugi, too.
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ne samo u našoj tvrtci već i u drugima.
Najbolja stvar koja se može
dogoditi s ovim sustavima
05:32
The bestnajbolje thing that can happendogoditi se
with these systemssustavi
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05:35
is that it startspočinje to feel
like you're just there.
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je to da se počnete
osjećati kao da ste tamo.
05:37
It's just you, it's just your bodytijelo,
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Vi ste tamo, vaše tijelo je tamo,
05:39
and so people actuallyzapravo startpočetak
to give these things personalosobni spaceprostor.
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tako da ljudi stvarno počinju
davati ovim stvarima osobni prostor.
05:42
So when you're havingima a stand-upustani meetingsastanak,
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1976
Tako da kad imate stojeći sastanak,
ljudi će stajati uokolo,
05:44
people will standstajati around the spaceprostor
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baš kao što bi stajali da ste tamo uživo.
05:45
just as they would
if you were there in personosoba.
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To je odlično dok nema prekida,
a onda više nije.
05:48
That's great untildo
there's breakdownskvarova and it's not.
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05:50
People, when they first see these robotsroboti,
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Ljudi, kada prvi put vide ove robote,
05:52
are like, "WowSjajna osoba, where'sgdje je the componentskomponente?
There mustmora be a camerafotoaparat over there,"
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počnu: "Vau, gdje su komponente?
Mora biti nekakva kamera ovdje negdje"
i onda vam bockaju lice.
05:56
and they startpočetak pokingbode your facelice.
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"Pretiho govoriš, pojačat ću ti glasnoću",
05:58
"You're talkingkoji govori too softlynježno,
I'm going to turnskretanje up your volumevolumen,"
147
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što je isto kao da imate kolegu
koji vam priđe i kaže:
06:00
whichkoji is like havingima a coworkersuradnika
walkhodati up to you and say,
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"Pretiho govoriš, pojačat ću ti lice".
06:03
"You're speakinggovor too softlynježno,
I'm going to turnskretanje up your facelice."
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To je čudno i nije u redu,
06:06
That's awkwardneugodno and not OK,
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06:07
and so we endkraj up havingima to buildizgraditi
these newnovi socialsocijalni normsnorme
151
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tako da na kraju moramo
razviti nove društvene norme
06:10
around usingkoristeći these systemssustavi.
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kad koristimo ove sustave.
06:12
SimilarlyNa sličan način, as you startpočetak
feelingosjećaj like it's your bodytijelo,
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Slično je kada se počnete
privikavati da je to vaše tijelo,
06:16
you startpočetak noticingprimjećujući things like,
"Oh, my robotrobot is kindljubazan of shortkratak."
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počnete primjećivati stvari poput:
"Ah, moj robot je nekako kratak".
06:19
DallasDallas would say things to me --
he was six-footšest-stopalo tallvisok --
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Dallas bi mi znao govoriti --
visok je 1,80 m --
06:22
and we would take him viapreko robotrobot
to cocktailkoktel partiesstranke and things like that,
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i vodili bismo ga putem robota
na koktel partije i slično,
06:26
as you do,
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normalno,
06:27
and the robotrobot was about five-foot-tallpet metara visokim,
whichkoji is closeblizu to my heightvisina.
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a robot je bio visok otprilike 1,50 m,
što je bliže mojoj visini.
06:30
And he would tell me,
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I on bi mi govorio:
06:31
"You know, people are not
really looking at me.
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"Znaš, ljudi zapravo ni
ne gledaju na mene.
06:34
I feel like I'm just looking
at this seamore of shouldersramena,
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Osjećam se kao da
gledam u ovo more ramena,
06:37
and it's just -- we need a tallerviši robotrobot."
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1976
a to je... treba nam viši robot".
06:39
And I told him,
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Ja bih mu rekla:
06:40
"UmHm, no.
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"Hm, ne.
06:41
You get to walkhodati in my shoescipele for todaydanas.
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Vidjet ćeš danas kako je meni inače.
06:43
You get to see what it's like
to be on the shorterkraće endkraj of the spectrumspektar."
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Vidjet ćeš kako je to biti nizak".
06:47
And he actuallyzapravo endedzavršeno up buildingzgrada
a lot of empathysuosjecanje for that experienceiskustvo,
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On je na kraju razvio veliku
empatiju tijekom tog iskustva,
06:50
whichkoji was kindljubazan of great.
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što je bilo super.
06:51
So when he'don bi come visitposjetiti in personosoba,
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Tako da kad bi došao uživo u posjet,
06:53
he no longerviše stoodstajao over me
as he was talkingkoji govori to me,
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više ne bi stajao nada mnom
kad bi mi govorio,
06:56
he would sitsjediti down
and talk to me eyeoko to eyeoko,
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sjeo bi i govorio sa mnom u razini očiju,
06:58
whichkoji was kindljubazan of a beautifullijep thing.
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što je bilo predivno.
Tako da smo, zapravo, odlučili
pogledati to u laboratoriju
06:59
So we actuallyzapravo decidedodlučio
to look at this in the laboratorylaboratorija
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i vidjeti kakve se druge vrste stvari,
poput visine robota, mogu napraviti.
07:02
and see what othersdrugi kindsvrste of differencesRazlike
things like robotrobot heightvisina would make.
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Pa je pola ljudi u našem istraživanju
koristilo kraćeg robota,
07:06
And so halfpola of the people in our studystudija
used a shorterkraće robotrobot,
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07:09
halfpola of the people in our studystudija
used a tallerviši robotrobot
176
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a druga polovica višeg robota.
07:11
and we actuallyzapravo foundpronađeno
that the exacttočno sameisti personosoba
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Otkrili smo da će ista osoba
07:13
who has the exacttočno sameisti bodytijelo
and sayskaže the exacttočno sameisti things as someonenetko,
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koja ima isto tijelo
i govori iste stvari kao netko,
07:17
is more persuasiveuvjerljiv
and perceivedpercipiraju as beingbiće more crediblevjerodostojan
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biti uvjerljivija i doimati se
vjerodostojnijom
07:19
if they're in a tallerviši robotrobot formoblik.
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ako je u višem robotskom obliku.
07:21
It makesmarke no rationalracionalan senseosjećaj,
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Racionalno to nema smisla,
07:23
but that's why we studystudija psychologyPsihologija.
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ali zato proučavamo psihologiju.
07:25
And really, you know,
the way that CliffCliff NassNass would put this
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I, znate, kao što bi to Cliff Nass rekao,
07:28
is that we're havingima to dealdogovor
with these newnovi technologiestehnologije
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suočavamo se s ovim novim tehnologijama,
07:31
despitebez obzira na the factčinjenica
that we have very oldstar brainsmozak.
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unatoč činjenici da imamo
vrlo stare mozgove.
Ljudska psihologija se ne mijenja
istom brzinom kao tehnologija,
07:33
HumanLjudski psychologyPsihologija is not changingmijenjanje
at the sameisti speedubrzati that techtech is
186
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07:36
and so we're always playingigranje catch-upkečap,
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tako da je stalno nastojimo sustići,
pokušavajući pronaći smisao svijeta
07:38
tryingtežak to make senseosjećaj of this worldsvijet
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07:40
where these autonomousautonoman things
are runningtrčanje around.
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u kojem smo okruženi
ovim autonomnim stvarima.
07:42
UsuallyObično, things that talk are people,
not machinesstrojevi, right?
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Uobičajeno, ljudi su ti koji govore,
ne strojevi, zar ne?
07:45
And so we breathedisati a lot of meaningznačenje
into things like just heightvisina of a machinemašina,
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Stoga dodajemo mnogo značenja
stvarima poput visine stroja,
07:50
not a personosoba,
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ne osobe,
07:51
and attributeatribut that
to the personosoba usingkoristeći the systemsistem.
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i pripisujemo to osobi
koja koristi sustav.
07:55
You know, this, I think,
is really importantvažno
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Znate, smatram da je ovo uistinu važno
07:57
when you're thinkingmišljenje about roboticsRobotika.
195
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kad razmišljate o robotici.
Ne radi se tu toliko
o rekonstrukciji čovjeka,
07:59
It's not so much about reinventingponovnom humansljudi,
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08:01
it's more about figuringfiguring out
how we extendprodužiti ourselvessebe, right?
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nego više o tome kako
proširiti sebe, zar ne?
08:04
And we endkraj up usingkoristeći things
in waysnačine that are sortvrsta of surprisingiznenađujuće.
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Na kraju koristimo stvari
na načine koji su iznenađujući.
08:07
So these guys can't playigrati poolbazen
because the robotsroboti don't have armsoružje,
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Dakle, ovi momci ne mogu igrati
biljar jer roboti nemaju ruke,
08:11
but they can heckledobacivao the guys
who are playingigranje poolbazen
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ali mogu provocirati
momke koji igraju biljar
08:14
and that can be an importantvažno thing
for teamtim bondingvezivanje,
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i to može biti važna stvar
kod timskog zbližavanja,
08:17
whichkoji is kindljubazan of neaturedan.
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što je zgodno.
Ljudi koji postanu zbilja dobri
u upravljanju tim sustavima,
08:18
People who get really good
at operatingradni these systemssustavi
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08:21
will even do things
like make up newnovi gamesigre,
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smislit će stvari poput novih igara,
08:23
like robotrobot soccernogomet
in the middlesrednji of the night,
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kao, recimo, robotski nogomet usred noći,
gurajući uokolo kante za smeće.
08:25
pushingguranje the trashsmeće canslimenke around.
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08:26
But not everyone'ssvi su good.
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No, nisu svi dobri u tome.
Dosta ljudi ima problema
s upravljanjem tim sustavima.
08:28
A lot of people have troublenevolja
operatingradni these systemssustavi.
208
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08:30
This is actuallyzapravo a guy
who loggedKreiranje datoteke poruka into the robotrobot
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Ovo je, zapravo, lik
koji se ulogirao u robota
i oko mu je bilo okrenuto za 90° ulijevo.
08:33
and his eyeballočne jabučice was turnedokrenut
90 degreesstupnjeva to the left.
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On to nije znao,
08:35
He didn't know that,
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pa se na kraju sudarao sa svime u uredu,
08:36
so he endedzavršeno up just bashingbashing
around the officeured,
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zalijetao ljudima u stolove,
postalo mu je neugodno,
08:39
runningtrčanje into people'snarodno desksstolovi,
gettinguzimajući supersuper embarrassedzbunjen,
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smijao se tome - glasnoća
mu je bila previsoka.
08:41
laughingsmijanje about it --
his volumevolumen was way too highvisok.
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08:44
And this guy here
in the imageslika is tellingreći me,
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A ovaj lik ovdje na slici mi govori:
08:46
"We need a robotrobot muteisključivanje buttondugme."
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"Treba nam gumb za utišavanje robota".
08:48
And by that what he really meantznačilo
was we don't want it to be so disruptivekoji remeti.
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Time je mislio reći da ne želimo
da bude toliko ometajući.
08:51
So as a roboticsRobotika companydruštvo,
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Tako da smo kao tvrtka robotike
08:53
we addeddodano some obstacleprepreka
avoidanceizbjegavanje to the systemsistem.
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dodali izbjegavanje prepreka u sustav.
Dobio je mali laserski daljinometar
koji bi mogao vidjeti prepreke,
08:56
It got a little laserlaser rangeopseg findertražilica
that could see the obstaclesprepreke,
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tako da kad bih ja, kao upravitelj
robota, rekla da se zabije u stolicu,
08:59
and if I as a robotrobot operatoroperatora
try to say, runtrčanje into a chairstolica,
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09:02
it wouldn'tne bi let me,
it would just planplan a pathstaza around,
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ne bi mi dozvolio, nego bi
isplanirao put koji vodi okolo,
09:04
whichkoji seemsčini se like a good ideaideja.
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što se čini kao bolja ideja.
09:06
People did hithit fewermanje obstaclesprepreke
usingkoristeći that systemsistem, obviouslyočito,
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Ljudi su se, naravno, manje
sudarali koristeći taj sustav,
09:09
but actuallyzapravo, for some of the people,
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no, zapravo, za neke ljude,
09:11
it tookuzeo them a lot longerviše
to get throughkroz our obstacleprepreka coursenaravno,
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trebalo je puno više vremena
da prođu cijeli poligon s preprekama
09:14
and we wanted to know why.
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pa smo htjeli znati zašto.
09:17
It turnsokreti out that there's
this importantvažno humanljudski dimensiondimenzija --
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Ispalo je da tu postoji
važna ljudska dimenzija;
09:20
a personalityosoba dimensiondimenzija
calledzvao locusLocus of controlkontrolirati,
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dimenzija osobnosti zvana lokus kontrole,
09:22
and people who have
a strongjak internalinterni locusLocus of controlkontrolirati,
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stoga ljudi koji imaju
snažan unutarnji lokus kontrole,
09:25
they need to be the mastersmajstori
of theirnjihov ownvlastiti destinysudbina --
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moraju biti upravitelji svojih sudbina
09:28
really don't like givingdavanje up controlkontrolirati
to an autonomousautonoman systemsistem --
232
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i stvarno ne žele predati
kontrolu autonomnom sustavu,
09:31
so much so that they will
fightborba the autonomyautonomija;
233
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toliko da će se boriti s autonomijom.
09:34
"If I want to hithit that chairstolica,
I'm going to hithit that chairstolica."
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"Ako se ja želim sudariti
s tom stolicom, ja ću se sudariti".
09:37
And so they would actuallyzapravo sufferpatiti
from havingima that autonomousautonoman assistancepomoć,
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Tako da bi oni zapravo patili kad
bi imali tu autonomnu potporu.
09:40
whichkoji is an importantvažno thing for us to know
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Što je važno za nas da znamo,
09:43
as we're buildingzgrada increasinglysve
autonomousautonoman, say, carsautomobili, right?
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budući da gradimo izrazito
automomne aute, recimo. Zar ne?
09:46
How are differentdrugačiji people going
to grapplervati with that lossgubitak of controlkontrolirati?
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Kako će se različiti ljudi nositi
s tim gubitkom kontrole?
09:50
It's going to be differentdrugačiji
dependingovisno on humanljudski dimensionsdimenzije.
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To će biti različito ovisno
o ljudskim dimenzijama.
09:53
We can't treatliječiti humansljudi
as if we're just one monolithicmonolitan thing.
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Ne možemo tretirati ljude kao
da smo neka monolitna stvar.
09:57
We varyvarirati by personalityosoba, by cultureKultura,
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Razlikujemo se po osobnosti, kulturi,
čak i po emocionalnom stanju
od trenutka do trenutka,
09:59
we even varyvarirati by emotionalemotivan statedržava
momenttrenutak to momenttrenutak,
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a biti u mogućnosti osmisliti ove sustave,
10:02
and beingbiće ableu stanju to designdizajn these systemssustavi,
243
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10:04
these human-robotČovjek-robot interactioninterakcija systemssustavi,
244
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ove sustave komunikacije
između čovjeka i robota,
10:06
we need to take into accountračun
the humanljudski dimensionsdimenzije,
245
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moramo uzeti u obzir ljudske dimenzije,
10:09
not just the technologicaltehnološki onesone.
246
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ne samo tehnološke.
10:11
AlongUz with a senseosjećaj of controlkontrolirati
alsotakođer comesdolazi a senseosjećaj of responsibilityodgovornost.
247
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S osjećajem kontrole
dolazi i osjećaj odgovornosti.
Kad biste bili upravitelj robota
koji koristi neke od ovih sustava,
10:15
And if you were a robotrobot operatoroperatora
usingkoristeći one of these systemssustavi,
248
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10:18
this is what the interfacesučelje
would look like.
249
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ovako bi sučelje izgledalo.
10:20
It looksizgled a little bitbit like a videovideo gameigra,
250
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1936
Nalikuje malo na videoigru,
10:22
whichkoji can be good because
that's very familiarupoznat to people,
251
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što može biti pozitivno
jer je to poznato ljudima,
10:25
but it can alsotakođer be badloše
252
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no, može biti i loše
10:27
because it makesmarke people feel
like it's a videovideo gameigra.
253
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jer se onda ljudi osjećaju
kao da su u videoigri.
Imali smo hrpu djece na Stanfordu
koja su se igrala time
10:29
We had a bunchmnogo of kidsdjeca
over at StanfordStanford playigrati with the systemsistem
254
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10:32
and drivepogon the robotrobot
around our officeured in MenloMenlo ParkPark,
255
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i vozila robota uokolo
u našem uredu u Menlo Parku,
i djeca bi govorila stvari poput:
10:34
and the kidsdjeca startedpočeo sayingizreka things like,
256
622960
1936
"10 bodova ako pogodiš
onog lika tamo. 20 za onog ondje".
10:36
"10 pointsbodova if you hithit that guy over there.
20 pointsbodova for that one."
257
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I onda bi ih lovili po hodniku.
10:40
And they would
chaseChase them down the hallwayhodnik.
258
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2016
10:42
(LaughterSmijeh)
259
630160
1016
(Smijeh)
10:43
I told them, "UmHm, those are realstvaran people.
260
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1936
Rekla bih im: "To su prave osobe.
10:45
They're actuallyzapravo going to bleedkrvarenje
and feel painbol if you hithit them."
261
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3296
Oni će zaista krvariti i
osjećati bol ako ih pogodite".
I oni bi na to: "U redu, shvaćamo".
10:48
And they'doni bi be like, "OK, got it."
262
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10:50
But fivepet minutesminuta laterkasnije,
they would be like,
263
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2056
Ali pet minuta poslije, oni bi opet:
"20 bodova za onog lika tamo, taj
baš izgleda kao da ga se treba pogoditi".
10:52
"20 pointsbodova for that guy over there,
he just looksizgled like he needspotrebe to get hithit."
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Podsjeća malo na "Enderovu igru", zar ne?
10:55
It's a little bitbit
like "Ender'sEnder's GameIgra," right?
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Postoji stvarni svijet
na toj drugoj strani
10:58
There is a realstvaran worldsvijet on that other sidestrana
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i smatram da je naša odgovornost
kao ljudi koji osmišljavaju ta sučelja
10:59
and I think it's our responsibilityodgovornost
as people designingprojektiranje these interfacessučelja
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da pomognu ljudima zapamtiti
11:03
to help people rememberzapamtiti
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da postoje stvarne posljedice
njihovih djelovanja
11:04
that there's realstvaran consequencesposljedice
to theirnjihov actionsakcije
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11:06
and to feel a senseosjećaj of responsibilityodgovornost
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i da osjećaju odgovornost
11:09
when they're operatingradni
these increasinglysve autonomousautonoman things.
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kad upravljaju ovim
sve više autonomnim stvarima.
11:13
These are kindljubazan of a great exampleprimjer
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Ovi su, recimo, sjajan primjer
11:16
of experimentingeksperimentiranje with one
possiblemoguće roboticrobotski futurebudućnost,
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eksperimentiranja s jednom od
mogućih budućnosti robota,
11:19
and I think it's prettyprilično coolsvjež
that we can extendprodužiti ourselvessebe
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i smatram da je stvarno kul
što možemo produžiti svoje djelovanje
11:23
and learnnaučiti about the waysnačine
that we extendprodužiti ourselvessebe
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i učiti o načinima toga
11:25
into these machinesstrojevi
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u ovim strojevima,
dok u isto vrijeme imamo
mogućnost izraziti svoju čovječnost
11:26
while at the sameisti time
beingbiće ableu stanju to expressizraziti our humanityčovječanstvo
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11:29
and our personalityosoba.
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i svoju osobnost.
11:30
We alsotakođer buildizgraditi empathysuosjecanje for othersdrugi
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Također gradimo empatiju za druge
11:32
in termsUvjeti of beingbiće
shorterkraće, tallerviši, fasterbrže, slowersporije,
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tako što postajemo
niži, viši, brži, sporiji,
11:35
and maybe even armlesscudak,
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možda čak i bezruki,
11:37
whichkoji is kindljubazan of neaturedan.
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što je nekako zgodno.
11:38
We alsotakođer buildizgraditi empathysuosjecanje
for the robotsroboti themselvesse.
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Također gradimo empatiju za same robote.
Ovo je jedan od mojih omiljenih robota.
11:41
This is one of my favoriteljubimac robotsroboti.
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11:42
It's calledzvao the TweenbotTweenbot.
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Zove se Tweenbot.
11:44
And this guy has a little flagZastava that sayskaže,
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Ima zastavicu na kojoj piše:
"Pokušavam doći do
ovog raskrižja na Manhattanu".
11:46
"I'm tryingtežak to get
to this intersectionkrižanje in ManhattanManhattan,"
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11:48
and it's cuteslatka and rollspecivo
forwardnaprijed, that's it.
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Sladak je i kotrlja se
unaprijed, to je sve.
11:51
It doesn't know how to buildizgraditi a mapkarta,
it doesn't know how to see the worldsvijet,
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Ne zna kako mapirati,
ne zna kako vidjeti svijet,
11:55
it just askspita for help.
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samo traži upute.
11:56
The nicelijepo thing about people
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Lijepa stvar kod ljudi je
11:57
is that it can actuallyzapravo dependzavisiti
uponna the kindnessljubaznost of strangersstranci.
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da se, zapravo, može oslanjati
na ljubaznost stranaca.
12:00
It did make it acrosspreko the parkpark
to the other sidestrana of ManhattanManhattan --
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On je uspio stići preko parka
na drugu stranu Manhattana,
12:04
whichkoji is prettyprilično great --
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što je odlično,
samo zato što bi ga ljudi podigli
i usmjerili u pravom smjeru.
12:06
just because people would pickodabrati it up
and pointtočka it in the right directionsmjer.
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(Smijeh)
12:09
(LaughterSmijeh)
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To je super, zar ne?
12:10
And that's great, right?
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12:11
We're tryingtežak to buildizgraditi
this human-robotČovjek-robot worldsvijet
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Pokušavamo izgraditi
svijet ljudi i robota,
12:14
in whichkoji we can coexistsuživot
and collaboratesurađivati with one anotherjoš,
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u kojem možemo supostojati
i surađivati jedni s drugima
12:17
and we don't need to be fullypotpuno autonomousautonoman
and just do things on our ownvlastiti.
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pa ne moramo biti posve autonomni
i samo raditi na svoj način.
Zapravo možemo raditi stvari zajedno.
12:21
We actuallyzapravo do things togetherzajedno.
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12:22
And to make that happendogoditi se,
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Da bismo to postigli,
12:24
we actuallyzapravo need help from people
like the artistsizvođači and the designersdizajneri,
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stvarno trebamo pomoć ljudi
poput umjetnika i dizajnera,
kreatora politike, pravnika,
12:27
the policypolitika makersodluka, the legalpravni scholarsZnanstvenici,
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12:29
psychologistspsiholozi, sociologistssociolozi,
anthropologistsantropolozi --
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psihologa, sociologa, antropologa,
treba nam više perspektiva u prostoriji,
12:31
we need more perspectivesperspektive in the roomsoba
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12:33
if we're going to do the thing
that StuStu CardKartice sayskaže we should do,
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ako ćemo učiniti ono što nam je
Stu Card rekao da bismo trebali,
12:36
whichkoji is inventizumiti the futurebudućnost
that we actuallyzapravo want to liveživjeti in.
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a to je stvaranje budućnosti
u kojoj uistinu želimo živjeti.
12:40
And I think we can continuenastaviti to experimenteksperiment
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I smatram da možemo
nastaviti eksperimentirati
12:43
with these differentdrugačiji
roboticrobotski futuresbudućnosti togetherzajedno,
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s ovim različitim
budućnostima robota zajedno
12:45
and in doing so, we will endkraj up
learningučenje a lot more about ourselvessebe.
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i na taj način naučiti
puno više o sebi samima.
12:50
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
12:51
(ApplausePljesak)
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(Pljesak)
Translated by Ivana Varga
Reviewed by Sanda Liker

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Leila Takayama - Social scientist
Leila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction.

Why you should listen

Leila Takayama is an acting associate professor of Psychology at the University of California, Santa Cruz, where she founded and leads the Re-Embodied Cognition Lab. Her lab examines how people make sense of, interact with, and relate to new technologies. Prior to academia, she was a researcher at GoogleX and Willow Garage, where she developed a taste for working alongside engineers, designers, animators, and more. Her interdisciplinary research continues in her current work on what happens when people interact with robots and through robots.

Takayama is a World Economic Forum Global Futures Council Member and Young Global Leader. In 2015, she was presented the IEEE Robotics & Automation Society Early Career Award. In 2012, she was named a TR35 winner and one of the 100 most creative people in business by Fast Company. She completed her PhD in Communication at Stanford University in 2008, advised by Professor Clifford Nass. She also holds a PhD minor in Psychology from Stanford, a master's degree in Communication from Stanford, and bachelor's of arts degrees in Psychology and Cognitive Science from UC Berkeley (2003). During her graduate studies, she was a research assistant in the User Interface Research (UIR) group at Palo Alto Research Center (PARC).

Photo: Melissa DeWitt

More profile about the speaker
Leila Takayama | Speaker | TED.com