TED2015
Roman Mars: Why city flags may be the worst-designed thing you've never noticed
罗曼 马尔斯: 为什么你从未注意的城市旗帜设计的如此糟糕
Filmed:
Readability: 4.1
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罗曼 马尔斯对旗帜着迷——听完他的演讲后你或许也会迷上它们。这些无处不在象征着公民骄傲的代表物常常被设计的一塌糊涂。但它们本来可以设计得更好。在这个关于旗帜学惊喜而搞笑的演讲里，马尔斯为我们展现了旗帜设计的5个基本原则，并告诉我们为什么这些原则四海皆准。
Roman Mars - Digital storyteller
With his show 99% Invisible, Roman Mars discovered new ways to jolt public radio out of its old paradigms, while at the same time spinning riveting tales of design. Full bio
With his show 99% Invisible, Roman Mars discovered new ways to jolt public radio out of its old paradigms, while at the same time spinning riveting tales of design. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I know what you're thinking:
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我知道你们在想什么：
00:14
"Why does that guy get to sit down?"
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“为什么那家伙能够坐着（演讲）？”
00:17
That's because this is radio.
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因为这是一个电台。
00:20
(Music)
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（音乐）
00:24
I tell radio stories about design,
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我在电台上广播有关设计的故事，
00:27
and I report on all kinds of stories:
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各种故事我都报道：
00:29
buildings and toothbrushes
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建筑和牙刷
00:31
and mascots and wayfinding and fonts.
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吉祥物和指路牌以及字体。
00:33
My mission is to get people to engage
with the design that they care about
with the design that they care about
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我的任务就是让人们去接触他们关心的设计
00:37
so they begin to pay attention
to all forms of design.
to all forms of design.
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这样他们就能够开始关注它们。
00:40
When you decode the world
with design intent in mind,
with design intent in mind,
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当你用“设计”的思维去了解这个世界，
00:45
the world becomes kind of magical.
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世界变得奇妙。
00:47
Instead of seeing the broken things,
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那些破损零散的东西，
00:49
you see all the little bits of genius
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会在你眼中会变成
00:52
that anonymous designers have sweated over
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无名设计师们精心设计
00:55
to make our lives better.
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这些设让我们的生活变得更好。
00:57
And that's essentially
the definition of design:
the definition of design:
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这就是设计的基本定义：
00:59
making life better and providing joy.
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改善生活，给予欢乐。
01:02
And few things give me greater joy
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而没有什么东西能比精心一面设计的旗子
01:05
than a well-designed flag.
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更能为我带来欢乐。
01:07
(Laughter) (Applause)
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（笑）（掌声）
01:09
Yeah!
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对吧！
01:13
Happy 50th anniversary
on your flag, Canada.
on your flag, Canada.
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加拿大国旗50岁生日快乐。
01:15
It is beautiful, gold standard. Love it.
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这幅国旗精美严谨，我非常喜欢。
01:19
I'm kind of obsessed with flags.
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我对旗帜挺着迷的，
01:21
Sometimes I bring up the topic of flags,
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有时候我谈起关于旗帜的话题，
01:23
and people are like,
"I don't care about flags,"
"I don't care about flags,"
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有人就会说，
“我一点也不关心旗帜，”
“我一点也不关心旗帜，”
01:27
and then we start talking
about flags, and trust me,
about flags, and trust me,
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而当我们开始聊起旗帜的时候，相信我，
01:31
100 percent of people care about flags.
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百分之百的人在乎。
01:33
There's just something about them
that works on our emotions.
that works on our emotions.
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它在我们的心中就占有着这么一个位置。
01:37
My family wrapped my Christmas presents
as flags this year,
as flags this year,
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我们家今年圣诞用国旗来包我的礼物，
01:40
including the blue gift bag
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包括那个蓝色礼品袋
01:44
that's dressed up as the flag of Scotland.
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包裹着它的是苏格兰国旗。
01:47
I put this picture online,
and sure enough,
and sure enough,
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我把这图发到网上去，不用说，
01:50
within the first few minutes,
someone left a comment that said,
someone left a comment that said,
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几分钟内，有人就评论说，
01:53
"You can take that Scottish Saltire
and shove it up your ass." (Laughter)
and shove it up your ass." (Laughter)
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“你可以把那个苏格兰旗插在你屁股上”（笑声）
01:56
Which -- see, people are passionate
about flags, you know?
about flags, you know?
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你看，人们对旗子很狂热的嘛。
02:00
That's the way it is.
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就是这样。
02:02
What I love about flags
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我热爱旗子的原因是，
02:03
is that once you understand
the design of flags,
the design of flags,
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一旦你理解了旗帜的设计，
02:06
what makes a good flag,
what makes a bad flag,
what makes a bad flag,
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什么是好旗子，
什么是坏旗子，
什么是坏旗子，
02:08
you can understand
the design of almost anything.
the design of almost anything.
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你几乎就能理解一切设计。
02:11
So what I'm going to do here is,
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所以我现在要做的就是，
02:13
I cracked open an episode
of my radio show,
of my radio show,
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开播一集我的电台节目，
02:16
"99% Invisible," and I'm going
to reconstruct it here on stage,
to reconstruct it here on stage,
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“99% Invisible”，并且我将要在台上创新它。
02:19
so when I press a button over here --
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当我在这按一个按钮 --
02:21
Voice: S for Sound --
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语音：S代表声音 --
02:23
Roman Mars: It's going to make a sound,
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Roman Mars: 就会有声音出来
02:25
and so whenever you hear a sound
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所以只要你听到有声音，
02:27
or a voice or a piece of music,
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语音或是音乐，
02:28
it's because I pressed a button.
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都是因为我按了一个按键。
02:30
Voice: Sssssound.
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语音：ssssss声音
02:32
RM: All right, got it? Here we go.
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RM：好吧，明白了吗？我们开始吧。
02:36
Three, two.
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三，二
02:39
This is 99% Invisible. I'm Roman Mars.
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这里是99% Invisible节目。我是罗曼 马尔斯。
02:48
Narrator: The five basic
principles of flag design.
principles of flag design.
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旁白：旗帜设计的五个基本原则。
02:51
Roman Mars: According to the North
American Vexillological Association.
American Vexillological Association.
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RM：根据北美旗帜学协会。
02:55
Vexillological.
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旗帜学
02:56
Ted Kaye: Vexillology
is the study of flags.
is the study of flags.
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Ted Kaye：旗帜学是对旗帜的研究。
02:59
RM: It's that extra "lol"
that makes it sound weird.
that makes it sound weird.
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RM：因为里边多余的"lol"
让它听上去很奇怪。
让它听上去很奇怪。
03:02
Narrator: Number one,
keep it simple.
keep it simple.
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旁白：原则一，化繁为简。
03:04
The flag should be so simple
that a child can draw it from memory.
that a child can draw it from memory.
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旗子需要简单的连小孩子都能凭记忆画出来。
03:07
RM: Before I moved to Chicago in 2005,
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RM：2005年在我搬去芝加哥之前，
03:09
I didn't even know cities
had their own flags.
had their own flags.
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我根本不知道每个城市有自己的旗子。
03:11
TK: Most larger cities
do have flags.
do have flags.
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TK：多数大城市有自己的市旗。
03:13
RM: Well, I didn't know that.
That's Ted Kaye, by the way.
That's Ted Kaye, by the way.
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RM：好吧，我没听说过。
对了，那个是Ted Kaye。
对了，那个是Ted Kaye。
03:16
TK: Hello.
RM: He's a flag expert.
RM: He's a flag expert.
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TK：你好。
RM：他是一个旗帜专家。
RM：他是一个旗帜专家。
03:18
He's a totally awesome guy.
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他是个特棒的家伙。
03:19
TK: I'm Ted Kaye. I have edited
a scholarly journal on flag studies,
a scholarly journal on flag studies,
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TK：我是Ted Kaye。我编辑了一份
有关旗帜研究的学术的周刊，
有关旗帜研究的学术的周刊，
03:23
and I am currently involved
with the Portland Flag Association
with the Portland Flag Association
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我目前在波特兰旗帜学会
03:26
and the North American
Vexillological Association.
Vexillological Association.
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和北美旗帜学学会工作。
03:29
RM: Ted literally wrote
the book on flag design.
the book on flag design.
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RM：Ted 写了一本有关旗帜设计的书。
03:32
Narrator: "Good Flag, Bad Flag."
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旁白：“好旗子，坏旗子。”
03:34
RM: It's more of a pamphlet, really.
It's about 16 pages.
It's about 16 pages.
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RM：其实更像一本小册子，大概就16页。
03:37
TK: Yes, it's called
"Good Flag, Bad Flag:
"Good Flag, Bad Flag:
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TK：没错，就叫做
“好旗子，坏旗子：
“好旗子，坏旗子：
03:39
How to Design a Great Flag."
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如何设计一面好旗。”
03:41
RM: And that first city flag
I discovered in Chicago
I discovered in Chicago
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RM：而我在芝加哥发现的第一面市旗
03:44
is a beaut:
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惊艳极了：
03:45
white field, two horizontal blue stripes,
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白底，两条水平的蓝色间条，
03:48
and four six-pointed red stars
down the middle.
down the middle.
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中间四颗红色六角星。
03:52
Narrator: Number two:
use meaningful symbolism.
use meaningful symbolism.
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旁白：
原则二：运用有意义的象征。
原则二：运用有意义的象征。
03:55
TK: The blue stripes represent
the water, the river and the lake.
the water, the river and the lake.
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TK：蓝色间条代表水，河流和湖水。
03:58
Narrator: The flag's images,
colors or pattern
colors or pattern
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旁白：旗的图案，颜色或图形
04:00
should relate to what it symbolizes.
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应该与它所代表的东西相关联。
04:02
TK: The red stars represent
significant events in Chicago's history.
significant events in Chicago's history.
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TK：红星代表了在芝加哥历史上著名的事件。
04:05
RM: Namely, the founding of Fort Dearborn
on the future site of Chicago,
on the future site of Chicago,
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RM：例如，在如今芝加哥址上建立的迪尔伯恩要塞，
04:09
the Great Chicago Fire,
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芝加哥大火，
04:12
the World Columbian Exposition,
which everyone remembers
which everyone remembers
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所有人都记得的，哥伦比亚世界博览会，
04:15
because of the White City,
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因为 White City 游乐场，
04:17
and the Century of Progress Exposition,
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以及没有人记得的，
04:19
which no one remembers at all.
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进步世纪博览会。
04:21
Narrator: Number three,
use two to three basic colors.
use two to three basic colors.
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旁白：原则三，使用两到三种基本色。
04:24
TK: The basic rule for colors
is to use two to three colors
is to use two to three colors
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TK：用色的基本原则，
就是使用两到三种
就是使用两到三种
04:27
from the standard color set:
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基本色系里的颜色：
04:30
red, white, blue,
green, yellow and black.
green, yellow and black.
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红，白，蓝，绿，黄，黑。
04:33
RM: The design of the Chicago flag
has complete buy-in
has complete buy-in
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RM：芝加哥市旗的设计
04:35
with an entire cross-section of the city.
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遍布城市各个角落。
04:37
It is everywhere;
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（它）到处都是；
04:39
every municipal building flies the flag.
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每栋市政大楼都飘着这面旗。
04:41
Whet Moser: Like, there's probably
at least one store on every block
at least one store on every block
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Whet Moser：在靠近我工作的地方，
04:44
near where I work that sells
some sort of Chicago flag paraphernalia.
some sort of Chicago flag paraphernalia.
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每个街区至少有一家商店在卖
印有芝加哥市旗的日常用品。
印有芝加哥市旗的日常用品。
04:48
RM: That's Whet Moser
from Chicago magazine.
from Chicago magazine.
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RM：这位是芝加哥杂志的Whet Moser。
04:50
WM: Today, just for example,
I went to get a haircut,
I went to get a haircut,
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WM：比如今天，我去理发，
04:53
and when I sat down in the barber's chair,
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当我在理发师的椅子坐下来之后，
04:56
there was a Chicago flag on the box
that the barber kept all his tools in,
that the barber kept all his tools in,
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看见他的工具箱上就有一面芝加哥市旗，
05:00
and then in the mirror there was
a Chicago flag on the wall behind me.
a Chicago flag on the wall behind me.
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然后透过镜子看到，在我身后的墙上
有一面芝加哥市旗。
有一面芝加哥市旗。
05:04
When I left, a guy passed me who had
a Chicago flag badge on his backpack.
a Chicago flag badge on his backpack.
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我走的时候，一个在我面前走过的家伙
背包上有一个芝加哥市旗的徽章。
背包上有一个芝加哥市旗的徽章。
05:09
RM: It's adaptable and remixable.
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RM：市旗上的图案可以随意融合与混搭。
05:11
The six-pointed stars in particular
show up in all kinds of places.
show up in all kinds of places.
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特别是六角星在各个场合出现。
05:14
WM: The coffee I bought the other day
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WM：我那天买的咖啡
05:16
had a Chicago star on it.
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就有一颗芝加哥星在上面。
05:18
RM: It's a distinct symbol
of Chicago pride.
of Chicago pride.
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RM：这是芝加哥骄傲的独特象征。
05:21
TK: When a police officer
or a firefighter dies in Chicago,
or a firefighter dies in Chicago,
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TK：当一个警官或消防员在芝加哥殉职时，
05:24
often it's not the flag of the
United States on his casket.
United States on his casket.
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通常在他的棺材上盖的不是美国国旗，
05:28
It can be the flag of the city of Chicago.
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有可能是芝加哥市旗。
05:31
That's how deeply the flag has gotten
into the civic imagery of Chicago.
into the civic imagery of Chicago.
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这就体现这旗是多么深入民心。
05:37
RM: And it isn't just that people
love Chicago and therefore love the flag.
love Chicago and therefore love the flag.
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RM：人们不是因爱芝加哥
而爱芝加哥市旗。
而爱芝加哥市旗。
05:41
I also think that people love Chicago more
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我觉得人们是因为市旗太美
05:44
because the flag is so cool.
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更加爱上了芝加哥。
05:47
TK: A positive feedback loop there
between great symbolism and civic pride.
between great symbolism and civic pride.
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TK：这是好的象征和市民荣誉感之间的
正反馈循环。
正反馈循环。
05:52
RM: Okay. So when I moved back
to San Francisco in 2008,
to San Francisco in 2008,
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RM：在2008年当我搬回三藩市的时候，
05:55
I researched its flag,
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我搜索了它的市旗，
05:57
because I had never seen it
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因为在我之前住的8年里
05:59
in the previous eight years I lived there.
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我从没见到过三藩市的市旗。
06:01
And I found it, I am sorry to say,
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我找到了，很遗憾地说，
06:04
sadly lacking.
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不太出色。
06:07
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
06:10
I know.
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我知道。
06:12
It hurts me, too.
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我的心也很痛啊。
06:14
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
06:15
TK: Well, let me start from the top.
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TK：那么，让我再从头来一遍。
06:17
Narrator: Number one, keep it simple.
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旁白：第一，化繁为简。
06:19
TK: Keeping it simple.
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TK：化繁为简。
06:21
Narrator: The flag should be so simple
that a child can draw it from memory.
that a child can draw it from memory.
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旁白：旗子需要简单的连小孩子都能凭记忆画出来。
06:24
TK: It's a relatively complex flag.
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TK：这旗相对来说比较复杂。
06:26
RM: Okay, here we go. Okay.
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RM：好吧
06:28
The main component
of the San Francisco flag is a phoenix
of the San Francisco flag is a phoenix
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三藩市旗的主体是一只凤凰。
06:30
representing the city
rising from the ashes
rising from the ashes
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代表着这个城市
在1850年代灾难性的大火后
在1850年代灾难性的大火后
06:33
after the devastating fires of the 1850s.
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在废墟中重建。
06:36
TK: A powerful symbol for San Francisco.
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TK：对旧金山来说很有象征性的标志。
06:38
RM: I still don't really dig the phoenix.
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RM：我还是不太喜欢那只凤凰。
06:40
Design-wise, it manages
to both be too crude
to both be too crude
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从设计的角度来说，
06:43
and have too many details
at the same time,
at the same time,
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这形象既粗糙，
又包含太多细节
又包含太多细节
06:46
which if you were trying for that,
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如果你打算画这面旗的话，
06:48
you wouldn't be able to do it,
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你不能把它画出来，
06:50
and it just looks bad at a distance,
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而且从远处看它确实很糟糕，
06:51
but having deep meaning
puts that element in the plus column.
puts that element in the plus column.
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但是这个形象有深层含义，
这是加分项。
这是加分项。
06:55
Behind the phoenix,
the background is mostly white,
the background is mostly white,
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在凤凰的后面，
背景基本上是白色的，
背景基本上是白色的，
06:58
and then it has a substantial
gold border around it.
gold border around it.
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并且有大的金色边框围绕着它。
07:02
TK: Which is a very attractive
design element.
design element.
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TK：这种设计很惹人注目。
07:04
RM: I think it's okay. But --
(Laughter) --
(Laughter) --
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我觉得还行。不过 --
（笑声） --
（笑声） --
07:08
here come the big no-nos of flag design.
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以下就是旗帜设计的禁忌。
07:10
Narrator: Number four,
no lettering or seals.
no lettering or seals.
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旁白：原则四，禁止使用字母或印章。
07:13
Never use writing of any kind.
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绝不使用任何书写。
07:15
RM: Underneath the phoenix,
there's a motto on a ribbon
there's a motto on a ribbon
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RM：凤凰下方的丝带上有一段格言
07:17
that translates to
"Gold in peace, iron in war,"
"Gold in peace, iron in war,"
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译为：
“和平繁荣城，战时钢铁都”
“和平繁荣城，战时钢铁都”
07:21
plus -- and this is the big problem --
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而且 -- 最大的问题是 --
07:23
it says San Francisco across the bottom.
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旗的最下方写着三藩市。
07:26
TK: If you need to write the name
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TK：如果你需要写下
07:28
of what you're representing on your flag,
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旗帜某种形象所
象征的东西的名字
象征的东西的名字
07:30
your symbolism has failed.
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你就毁了它的象征意义。
07:32
(Laughter) (Applause)
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（笑声）（掌声）
07:36
RM: The United States flag
doesn't say "USA" across the front.
doesn't say "USA" across the front.
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RM：美国国旗上面就没有写着“USA”。
07:40
In fact, country flags,
they tend to behave.
they tend to behave.
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事实上，国旗通常遵循规则。
07:43
Like, hats off to South Africa
and Turkey and Israel
and Turkey and Israel
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比如，南非，土耳其，以色列
07:46
and Somalia and Japan and Gambia.
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索马里，日本和冈比亚的国旗。
向这些国旗设计致敬。
向这些国旗设计致敬。
07:48
There's a bunch
of really great country flags,
of really great country flags,
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有许多非常棒的国旗，
07:51
but they obey good design principles
because the stakes are high.
because the stakes are high.
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但是这些国旗遵循设计原则
是因为他们的风险比较高。
是因为他们的风险比较高。
07:55
They're on the international stage.
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它们要站在国际舞台上。
07:58
But city, state and regional flags
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但是城市，州旗和区旗
08:00
are another story.
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就完全不同了。
08:03
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
08:05
There is a scourge of bad flags,
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有一堆坏旗子，
08:08
and they must be stopped.
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它们必须被叫停。
08:10
(Laughter) (Applause)
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（笑声）（掌声）
08:12
That is the truth and that is the dare.
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这就是真相与勇气。
08:16
The first step is to recognize
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首先我们要认识到，
08:18
that we have a problem.
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我们本身有一个问题。
08:24
A lot of people tend to think
that good design
that good design
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很多人趋向于认为，好的设计
08:27
is just a matter of taste,
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只与品味有关，
08:28
and quite honestly,
sometimes it is, actually,
sometimes it is, actually,
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老实的说，
有的时候确实是这样，
有的时候确实是这样，
08:31
but sometimes it isn't, all right?
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但是有时却不是，好吧？
08:35
Here's the full list of NAVA
flag design principles.
flag design principles.
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这里是一份完整的
北美旗帜学会的设计原则。
北美旗帜学会的设计原则。
08:38
Narrator: The five
basic principles of flag design.
basic principles of flag design.
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旁白：旗帜设计的五个基本原则。
08:42
Number one.
TK: Keep it simple.
TK: Keep it simple.
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原则一，
TK：化繁为简。
TK：化繁为简。
08:44
Narrator: Number two.
TK: Use meaningful symbolism.
TK: Use meaningful symbolism.
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旁白：原则二，
TK：运用有深意的象征。
TK：运用有深意的象征。
08:46
Narrator: Number three.
TK: Use two to three basic colors.
TK: Use two to three basic colors.
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旁白：原则三，
TK：使用两到三种基本色。
TK：使用两到三种基本色。
08:49
Narrator: Number four.
TK: No lettering or seals.
TK: No lettering or seals.
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旁白：原则四，
TK：无涂鸦和官方标志。
TK：无涂鸦和官方标志。
08:51
Narrator: Never use
writing of any kind.
writing of any kind.
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旁白：绝不在旗上印字。
08:53
TK: Because you can't
read that at a distance.
read that at a distance.
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TK：因为你在远处看不清它写的是什么。
08:55
Narrator: Number five.
TK: And be distinctive.
TK: And be distinctive.
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旁白：原则五。
TK：要独特。
TK：要独特。
08:57
RM: All the best flags tend
to stick to these principles.
to stick to these principles.
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RM：所有的好旗子都遵循这些原则。
09:00
And like I said before,
most country flags are okay.
most country flags are okay.
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就像我之前说的，
大部分国旗都不错。
大部分国旗都不错。
09:03
But here's the thing:
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但问题是这样：
09:04
if you showed this list of principles
to any designer of almost anything,
to any designer of almost anything,
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如果你把这些原则给任何一个设计师
09:08
they would say these principles --
simplicity, deep meaning,
simplicity, deep meaning,
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他们会说 --
简洁，有深意，
简洁，有深意，
09:12
having few colors or being
thoughtful about colors,
thoughtful about colors,
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颜色较少，搭配得当，
09:14
uniqueness, don't have
writing you can't read --
writing you can't read --
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独一无二，
不要在上面写你看不到的字 --
不要在上面写你看不到的字 --
09:17
all those principles apply to them, too.
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这些原则对他们也适用。
09:19
But sadly, good design principles
are rarely invoked
are rarely invoked
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但遗憾的是，好的设计原则
09:23
in U.S. city flags.
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很少应用在美国市旗里。
09:25
Our biggest problem
seems to be that fourth one.
seems to be that fourth one.
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第四条原则看来是我们最大的问题。
09:27
We just can't stop ourselves
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我们无法控制自己
09:29
from putting our names on our flags,
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不在旗子上写自己的名字，
09:31
or little municipal seals
with tiny writing on them.
with tiny writing on them.
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或是加上印着小字的市政标志，
09:35
Here's the thing about municipal seals:
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市政标志的作用是，
09:37
They were designed
to be on pieces of paper
to be on pieces of paper
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印在纸上，
09:39
where you can read them,
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这样你能看到，
09:41
not on flags 100 feet away
flapping in the breeze.
flapping in the breeze.
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而不是印在100码外的旗子上，
在空中飘着。
在空中飘着。
09:44
So here's a bunch of flags again.
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那么这里又有一堆旗子，
09:46
Vexillologists call these SOBs:
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旗帜学者称它们为SOB——
09:49
seals on a bedsheet -- (Laughter) --
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被单上的印章 -- （笑声）--
09:52
and if you can't tell
what city they go to,
what city they go to,
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如果你看不出这是哪座城市的旗帜，
09:55
yeah, that's exactly the problem,
213
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没错，这就是问题所在，
09:57
except for Anaheim, apparently.
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当然，除了阿纳海姆。
09:58
They fixed it. (Laughter)
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明显它们修改过。（笑声）
10:02
These flags are everywhere in the U.S.
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这些旗子在美国遍地都是。
10:05
The European equivalent
of the municipal seal
of the municipal seal
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在欧洲，市政印章叫做
10:07
is the city coat of arms,
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城市纹章，
10:09
and this is where we can learn
a lesson for how to do things right.
a lesson for how to do things right.
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3669
我们能够从这里学到纹章的正确用法。
10:13
So this is the city
coat of arms of Amsterdam.
coat of arms of Amsterdam.
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这是阿姆斯特丹市的纹章。
10:15
Now, if this were a United States city,
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如果这是一个美国城市，
10:17
the flag would probably look like this.
222
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它的市旗大概会是这样。
10:19
You know, yeah. (Laughter)
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你懂的。（笑声）
10:22
But instead, the flag of Amsterdam
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但是，阿姆斯特丹的市旗
10:24
looks like this.
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却是这样的。
10:27
Rather than plopping
the whole coat of arms
the whole coat of arms
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与其把纹章一股脑的印在市旗上面
10:29
on a solid background and writing
"Amsterdam" below it,
"Amsterdam" below it,
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并在下面写着“阿姆斯特丹”，
10:32
they just take the key elements
of the escutcheon, the shield,
of the escutcheon, the shield,
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它们仅取铭牌上的重要的元素，盾牌，
10:35
and they turn it into the most
badass city flag in the world.
badass city flag in the world.
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3785
把它变成世界上最牛逼的市旗。
10:39
(Laughter) (Applause)
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（笑声）（掌声）
10:45
And because it's so badass,
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因为如此牛逼，
10:48
those flags and crosses
are found throughout Amsterdam,
are found throughout Amsterdam,
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那些旗子和十字交叉
在阿姆斯特丹随处可见，
在阿姆斯特丹随处可见，
10:50
just like Chicago, they're used.
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就像在芝加哥一样。
10:53
Even though seal-on-a-bedsheet flags
are particularly painful
are particularly painful
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3274
尽管对我来说，“被单上的印章”这种称呼
10:56
and offensive to me,
235
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1835
使我很痛苦，感到被冒犯，
10:58
nothing can quite prepare you
236
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2043
但也没有什么能够
11:00
for one of the biggest train wrecks
in vexillological history.
in vexillological history.
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与这旗帜史上最大的怪胎产物相比较。
11:05
Are you ready?
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你们准备好了吗？
11:06
It's the flag of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
239
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这是威斯康辛州密尔沃基市的旗子。
11:09
(Laughter)
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（笑）
11:17
I mean, it's distinctive,
241
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好吧，它的确独一无二，
11:21
I'll give them that.
242
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2275
我承认。
11:23
Steve Kodis: It was adopted in 1955.
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Steve Kodis：它在1955年被采用。
11:26
RM: The city ran a contest
244
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RM：密市举行了一个比赛
11:27
and gathered a bunch of submissions
245
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1870
并收集了一堆
11:29
with all kinds of designs.
246
677727
1786
各式各样的作品。
11:31
SK: And an alderman
by the name of Fred Steffan
by the name of Fred Steffan
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3784
SK：而一个叫Fred Steffan的议员
11:35
cobbled together parts of the submissions
248
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3297
把其他作品中的一部分拼凑起来
11:38
to make what is now the Milwaukee flag.
249
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3344
设计了现在这面密尔沃基市旗。
11:41
RM: It's a kitchen sink flag.
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3181
RM：只是一面乱七八糟的旗子。
11:45
There's a gigantic gear
representing industry,
representing industry,
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2786
那有一个巨型的齿轮代表工业，
11:47
there's a ship recognizing the port,
252
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2745
轮船意为港口，
11:50
a giant stalk of wheat
253
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1133
一支巨茎小麦
11:51
paying homage to the brewing industry.
254
699783
2020
向酿造业致敬。
11:53
It's a hot mess,
255
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1648
这旗一团糟，
11:55
and Steve Kodis, a graphic designer
from Milwaukee, wants to change it.
from Milwaukee, wants to change it.
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4737
Steve Kodis，来自密尔沃基的
平面设计师希望修改这面旗子。
平面设计师希望修改这面旗子。
12:00
SK: It's really awful.
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2502
SK：这旗糟糕透了。
12:02
It's a misstep on the city's behalf,
258
710690
2467
这旗是这座城市的一个失误，
12:05
to say the least.
259
713157
2020
甚至比失误还严重。
12:07
RM: But what puts
the Milwaukee flag over the top,
the Milwaukee flag over the top,
260
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2786
RM：然而一件事让密尔沃基市旗显得更加荒谬，
12:09
almost to the point of self-parody,
261
717963
2020
甚至到了自嘲的地步，
12:11
is on it is a picture of the Civil War
battle flag of the Milwaukee regiment.
battle flag of the Milwaukee regiment.
262
719993
6277
那就是旗上有一面内战时
密尔沃基兵团的战旗。
密尔沃基兵团的战旗。
12:18
SK: So that's the final element in it
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SK：这就是让这面旗显得
12:20
that just makes it
that much more ridiculous,
that much more ridiculous,
264
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2411
更加荒谬的最后一个元素，
12:22
that there is a flag design
within the Milwaukee flag.
within the Milwaukee flag.
265
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4504
在密尔沃基市旗的里面又有一面旗。
12:27
RM: On the flag. Yeah. Yeah. (Laughter)
266
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RM：在旗的上面。是的。是的。（笑声）
12:30
Yeah.
267
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1603
是的。
12:32
(Music)
268
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1732
（音乐）
12:33
Now, Milwaukee is a fantastic city.
269
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2415
密尔沃基是个很棒的城市。
12:36
I've been there. I love it.
270
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2275
我去过，我很喜欢。
12:38
The most depressing part
of this flag, though,
of this flag, though,
271
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2183
关于市旗最让人伤心的是，
12:40
is that there have been
two major redesign contests.
two major redesign contests.
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3134
那里曾有过两次
大型市旗重新设计比赛。
大型市旗重新设计比赛。
12:43
The last one was held in 2001.
273
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2299
最近一次在2001年举行。
12:46
One hundred and five
entries were received.
entries were received.
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2321
共收到105份作品。
12:48
TK: But in the end, the members
of the Milwaukee Arts Board
of the Milwaukee Arts Board
275
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TK：但最终，密市的艺术委员会决定
12:51
decided that none of the new entries
were worthy of flying over the city.
were worthy of flying over the city.
276
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3590
没有任何一件新作品入选。
12:54
RM: They couldn't agree
to change that thing! (Laughter)
to change that thing! (Laughter)
277
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3704
RM：他们竟然不能统一认识到旗该换了！（笑声）
12:58
That's discouraging enough
to make you think
to make you think
278
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2160
这件事使人沮丧地意识到
13:00
that good design and democracy
279
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2094
好的设计和民主政治
13:02
just simply do not go together.
280
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2687
是无法相容的。
13:05
But Steve Kotas is going
to try one more time
to try one more time
281
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2600
但是 Steve Kotas 将要再一次
13:08
to redesign the Milwaukee flag.
282
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2346
尝试重新设计密尔沃基市旗。
13:10
SK: I believe Milwaukee is a great city.
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2414
SK：我认为密尔沃基是个伟大的城市。
13:12
Every great city deserves a great flag.
284
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2935
每一座伟大的城市都应有一面好的市旗。
13:15
RM: Steve isn't ready
to reveal his design yet.
to reveal his design yet.
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2203
RM：Steve 还没准备好将市旗公之于众。
13:18
One of the things about
proposing one of these things
proposing one of these things
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2489
重设市旗的过程之一就是
13:20
is you have to get people on board,
287
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1893
你需要让人们参与到其中，拉拢他们的心
13:22
and then you reveal your design.
288
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1858
然后你揭开你的设计。
13:24
But here's the trick:
289
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1427
但是这有个窍门：
13:25
If you want to design a great flag,
290
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2056
如果你想设计一面好旗，
13:27
a kickass flag like Chicago's or D.C.'s,
which also has a great flag,
which also has a great flag,
291
795776
3436
一面像芝加哥或华盛顿那样赞的旗子，
13:31
start by drawing a one-by-one-and-a-half-
inch rectangle on a piece of paper.
inch rectangle on a piece of paper.
292
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4466
先在纸上画一个1英寸乘1.5英寸的长方形。
13:35
Your design has to fit
within that tiny rectangle.
within that tiny rectangle.
293
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2372
你的设计必须在那个小方形里边。
13:38
Here's why.
294
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1276
来说说这是为什么。
13:39
TK: A three-by-five-foot flag
295
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2195
TK：一面3英尺乘5英尺旗
13:41
on a pole 100 feet away
296
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在一支100英尺以外的旗杆上
13:43
looks about the same size
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看上去与一个
13:45
as a one-by-one-and-a-half-inch rectangle
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距离你视线15英寸远的
13:50
seen about 15 inches from your eye.
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1英尺乘1.5英尺的长方形差不多。
13:53
You'd be surprised by how compelling
and simple the design can be
and simple the design can be
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当你把自己局限在这个大小
13:57
when you hold yourself to that limitation.
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你会惊讶地发现，
这个设计可以做得多么简洁而使人信服。
这个设计可以做得多么简洁而使人信服。
14:01
RM: Meanwhile, back in San Francisco.
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RM：在此同时，回到三藩市。
14:03
Is there anything we can do?
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我们能做些什么？
14:05
TK: I like to say
that in every bad flag
that in every bad flag
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TK：我想说在每一面坏旗中
14:08
there's a good flag trying to get out.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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都有一面好旗想从中突围。
（笑声）
（笑声）
14:10
The way to make
San Francisco's flag a good flag
San Francisco's flag a good flag
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把三藩市市旗变成一面好旗的方法
14:12
is to take the motto off
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就是把那句格言去掉
14:14
because you can't read that at a distance.
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因为你在远处看不到。
14:16
Take the name off,
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把名字去掉，
14:18
and the border might even be made thicker,
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把边弄厚一点，
14:20
so it's more a part of the flag.
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让它更能成为旗的一部分。
14:22
And I would simply take the phoenix
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我会只采用凤凰元素
14:24
and make it a great big element
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把它变成最大的部分
14:26
in the middle of the flag.
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放在旗帜中间。
14:27
RM: But the current phoenix,
that's got to go.
that's got to go.
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RM：但是现在的这个凤凰形象，
必须得去掉。
必须得去掉。
14:30
TK: I would simplify
or stylize the phoenix.
or stylize the phoenix.
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TK：我会简化或风格化那只凤凰。
14:33
Depict a big, wide-winged bird
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勾勒一只大型，广翅的鸟
14:36
coming out of flames.
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浴火而出。
14:37
Emphasize those flames.
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突出那些火焰。
14:39
RM: So this San Francisco flag
was designed by Frank Chimero
was designed by Frank Chimero
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RM：这面三藩市市旗是由 Frank Chimero
14:42
based on Ted Kaye's suggestions.
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基于 Ted Kaye 的建议设计的。
14:43
I don't know what he would do
if we was completely unfettered
if we was completely unfettered
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如果完全不受约束的话，
我不知道他会怎么修改
我不知道他会怎么修改
14:46
and didn't follow those guidelines.
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并且摒弃那些设计准则。
14:48
Fans of my radio show and podcast,
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我的电台节目和播客粉丝，
14:50
they've heard me complain about bad flags.
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他们听到我对糟糕旗帜的抱怨。
14:52
They've sent me other suggested designs.
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他们给我寄来了其他的设计。
14:54
This one's by Neil Mussett.
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这一个来自 Neil Mussett。
14:56
Both are so much better.
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2717
都比原作好多了。
14:58
And I think if they were adopted,
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我认为如果新旗被采用的话，
15:01
I would see them around the city.
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一定会被整座城市喜爱。
15:04
In my crusade to make
flags of the world more beautiful,
flags of the world more beautiful,
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在这场美化市旗的战斗中，
15:07
many listeners have taken it
upon themselves
upon themselves
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2064
很多听众都亲自上阵
15:09
to redesign their flags
and look into the feasibility
and look into the feasibility
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重新设计他们的旗帜
15:12
of getting them officially adopted.
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并且寻找被官方采用的可行性。
15:16
If you see your city flag and like it,
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如果你看到你们城市的市旗，
并且喜欢，
并且喜欢，
15:18
fly it,
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那就挂起来，
15:20
even if it violates
a design rule or two.
a design rule or two.
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即使它违反了一两个设计原则。
15:22
I don't care.
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我无所谓。
15:24
But if you don't see your city flag,
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但如果你没有看到你的市旗，
15:26
maybe it doesn't exist, but maybe it does,
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或许它并不存在，
也或许它存在，
也或许它存在，
15:28
and it just sucks,
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只不过太烂了，
15:30
and I dare you to join the effort
to try to change that.
to try to change that.
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那么我希望你加入改变旗帜的行列。
15:35
As we move more and more into cities,
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当我们越来越多的人搬进城市，
15:38
the city flag will become
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1742
市旗将不仅成为
15:40
not just a symbol of that city as a place,
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3134
一个城市的地方象征，
15:43
but also it could become
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2067
同时也能成为
15:45
a symbol of how that city
considers design itself,
considers design itself,
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4040
这个城市对“设计”本身态度的象征，
15:49
especially today, as the populace
is becoming more design-aware.
is becoming more design-aware.
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特别是今天，潮流越来越看重设计。
15:53
And I think design awareness
is at an all-time high.
is at an all-time high.
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2563
我认为设计意识到达了有史以来的顶峰。
15:55
A well-designed flag could be seen
as an indicator of how a city
as an indicator of how a city
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从一面设计优良的旗帜
可以看出
可以看出
15:59
considers all of its design systems:
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2856
一个城市整体上如何看待它设计体系：
16:02
its public transit,
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1802
它的公共交通，
16:04
its parks, its signage.
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公园，指示牌。
16:06
It might seem frivolous, but it's not.
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3436
这看上去可能不值一提，但并非如此。
16:09
TK: Often when city leaders say,
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1978
TK：通常当市政领导说，
16:11
"We have more important things to do
than worry about a city flag,"
than worry about a city flag,"
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4430
“我们有比市旗更重要的事情要操心，”
16:16
my response is,
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1812
我的回答是，
16:17
"If you had a great city flag,
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1811
“如果你有一面好市旗，
16:19
you would have a banner
for people to rally under
for people to rally under
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2414
你就可以在这面旗帜下团结人民
16:22
to face those more important things."
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3019
一起去面对更重大的事情。”
16:26
RM: I've seen firsthand
what a good city flag can do
what a good city flag can do
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2609
RM：在芝加哥，
16:29
in the case of Chicago.
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977411
1718
我亲眼看到了一面好市旗的意义。
16:31
The marriage of good design
and civic pride
and civic pride
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2206
好的设计与市民自豪感的结合
16:33
is something that we need in all places.
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2368
是每个地方都需要的。
16:35
The best part about municipal flags
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2090
关于市政旗最好的一件事情
16:37
is that we own them.
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1858
就是我们拥有它们，
16:39
They are an open-source,
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1787
它们是公开资源，
16:41
publicly owned design language
of the community.
of the community.
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989438
3553
是在社会中
人们共同所有的设计语言。
人们共同所有的设计语言。
16:44
When they are done well,
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1857
市旗如果设计得好，
16:46
they are remixable, adaptable,
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2532
它们就能够随意混搭和融合，
16:49
and they are powerful.
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1145
它们的力量是无穷的。
16:50
We could control the branding
and graphical imagery
and graphical imagery
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2430
我们能用一面好的市旗
16:52
of our cities with a good flag,
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1834
控制城市的广告推广和地理图像，
16:54
but instead, by having
bad flags we don't use,
bad flags we don't use,
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2485
然而，拥有一面没用的坏市旗，
16:57
we cede that territory to sports teams
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2577
我们就把本属于市旗的位置，
让给了运动队
让给了运动队
16:59
and chambers of commerce
and tourism boards.
and tourism boards.
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2810
商会和旅游广告。
17:02
Sports teams can leave
and break our hearts.
and break our hearts.
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2554
球队会离开，会让我们心碎。
17:05
And besides, some of us
don't really care about sports.
don't really care about sports.
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3250
此外，我们中的有些人根本不关心体育。
17:08
And tourism campaigns
can just be cheesy.
can just be cheesy.
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2903
旅游广告只是太俗套罢了。
17:11
But a great city flag
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但是一面很赞的市旗
17:13
is something that represents
a city to its people
a city to its people
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2414
是一座城市展现给市民的、
17:15
and its people to the world at large.
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2183
甚至市民展现给世界的
一张名片。
一张名片。
17:17
And when that flag is a beautiful thing,
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2113
如果这面市旗是美的，
17:19
that connection is a beautiful thing.
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2740
这张名片就是美的。
17:22
So maybe all the city flags
can be as inspiring as Hong Kong
can be as inspiring as Hong Kong
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3599
所以或许所有的市旗都能
像香港旗、
像香港旗、
17:26
or Portland or Trondheim,
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2298
波特兰或是特隆赫姆旗那么让人振奋
17:28
and we can do away with all the bad flags
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2090
我们可以换掉所有的糟糕旗帜
17:30
like San Francisco, Milwaukee,
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2601
比如三藩市的，密尔沃基的，
17:33
Cedar Rapids,
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1555
锡达拉皮兹的，
17:34
and finally, when we're all done,
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2369
最后，当我们都完成以后，
17:37
we can do something
about Pocatello, Idaho,
about Pocatello, Idaho,
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2600
我们还得帮帮爱达荷州的波卡特洛，
17:39
considered by the North American
Vexillological Association
Vexillological Association
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3971
它的旗帜被北美旗帜协会认为
17:43
as the worst city flag in North America.
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4876
是北美最差的。
17:48
(Laughter) (Applause)
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4239
（笑声）（掌声）
17:56
Yeah.
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2136
没错。
17:58
That thing has a trademark
symbol on it, people. (Laughter)
symbol on it, people. (Laughter)
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同志们，那玩意上还有个注册商标。（笑声）
18:02
That hurts me just to look at.
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看着它我就心痛。
18:05
Thank you so much for listening.
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非常感谢你们的收听。
18:07
(Applause)
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（掌声）
18:13
["Music by: Melodium (@melodiumbox)
and Keegan DeWitt (@keegandewitt)"]
and Keegan DeWitt (@keegandewitt)"]
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音乐：Melodium（@melodiumbox）
Keegan DeWitt（@keegandewitt）
Keegan DeWitt（@keegandewitt）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Roman Mars - Digital storytellerWith his show 99% Invisible, Roman Mars discovered new ways to jolt public radio out of its old paradigms, while at the same time spinning riveting tales of design.
Why you should listen
From its humble beginnings in his home, Roman Mars’ podcast and radio show 99% Invisible accumulated a massive following to become a broadcast and internet phenomenon. Its premise -- 10- to 20-minute episodes focused on a single compelling story -- subverts public radio’s reliance on long, strictly formatted shows, and has garnered national praise.
Over a series of three runaway crowdsourced fundraising campaigns, 99% Invisible generated over $1.2 million, making Mars the most successful crowdfunded journalist in Kickstarter history.
Roman Mars | Speaker | TED.com