TED Salon: Border Stories
Erika Pinheiro: What's really happening at the US-Mexico border -- and how we can do better
艾莉卡 · 平海羅: 美墨邊界的實況，以及我們如何能做得更好
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在美墨邊界，拉長拘留和拆散家庭的政策讓向美國尋求庇護變成是困難又危險的事。在這場真誠的演說中，移民律師艾莉卡 · 平海羅帶大家一瞥她的在邊界兩邊的日常工作，並分享統計數字背後的一些故事，包括她自己被拘留與兒子分離的故事。她清楚呼籲大家要記得受到政策影響的人性，並警告：「歷史告訴我們，第一個被詆毀並被剝奪權利的族群，通常都不是最後一個」。
Erika Pinheiro - Immigration attorney
Erika Pinheiro fights to protect migrant rights and reunify families. She leads non-profits whose projects have helped thousands of immigrants on both sides of the US-Mexico border. Full bio
Erika Pinheiro fights to protect migrant rights and reunify families. She leads non-profits whose projects have helped thousands of immigrants on both sides of the US-Mexico border. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
每週有兩天，我會從我在
墨西哥提華納附近的家中開車
墨西哥提華納附近的家中開車
00:13
Twice a week,
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00:14
I drive from my home near Tijuana, Mexico,
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00:17
over the US border,
to my office in San Diego.
to my office in San Diego.
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跨越美國邊界，到我位於
聖地牙哥的辦公室。
聖地牙哥的辦公室。
00:20
The stark contrast between the poverty
and desperation on one side of the border
and desperation on one side of the border
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邊界的一邊，是貧困和絕望，
和另一邊的明顯富裕
是很強烈的對比，
是很強烈的對比，
00:24
and the conspicuous wealth on the other
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00:26
always feels jarring.
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這對比總讓我覺得震撼。
00:28
But what makes this contrast
feel even starker
feel even starker
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但有個因素更突顯這種對比感覺，
00:31
is when I pass by the building
that those of us who work on the border
that those of us who work on the border
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那就是當我經過在邊界
工作的人的大樓時，
工作的人的大樓時，
00:34
unaffectionately refer to
as the black hole.
as the black hole.
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那裡有個冰冷的稱號：黑洞。
00:36
The black hole is the Customs
and Border Protection,
and Border Protection,
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黑洞是海關及邊境保衛局，
簡稱 CBP，
00:39
or CBP facility,
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00:40
at the San Ysidro port of entry,
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位在聖伊席卓入境口岸，
00:42
right next to a luxury outlet mall.
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就在奢侈的過季商品購物中心旁。
00:44
It's also where, at any one time,
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此外，不論何時在那裡
00:46
there's likely 800 immigrants
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都會有大約八百名移民
00:48
locked in freezing, filthy,
concrete cells below the building.
concrete cells below the building.
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被關在建物底下寒冷、
骯髒的水泥牢房中。
骯髒的水泥牢房中。
00:52
Up top: shopping bags and frappuccinos.
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上面：購物袋和星冰樂。
00:55
Downstairs: the reality
of the US immigration system.
of the US immigration system.
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下面：美國移民體制的現實。
00:59
And it's where, one day
in September of 2018,
in September of 2018,
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2018 年九月的某一天，在那裡，
01:02
I found myself trying to reach Anna,
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我試著去接觸安娜，
01:04
a woman who CBP had recently separated
from her seven-year-old son.
from her seven-year-old son.
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CBP 最近才將這名女子
和她的七歲兒子拆散，
和她的七歲兒子拆散，
01:09
I'm an immigration attorney
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我是移民律師，
01:10
and the policy and litigation director
of Al Otro Lado,
of Al Otro Lado,
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也是 Al Otro Lado 的
政策及訴訟主任，
政策及訴訟主任，
01:13
a binational nonprofit helping immigrants
on both sides of the US-Mexico border.
on both sides of the US-Mexico border.
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這是一個雙國非營利組織，
旨在協助美墨邊界兩邊的移民。
旨在協助美墨邊界兩邊的移民。
01:17
We'd met Anna several weeks earlier
at our Tijuana office,
at our Tijuana office,
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幾週前，我們在才在
提華納的辦公室見過安娜，
提華納的辦公室見過安娜，
01:21
where she explained that she feared
she and her son would be killed in Mexico.
she and her son would be killed in Mexico.
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在那裡，她解釋說她害怕她
和她的兒子在墨西哥會被殺害。
和她的兒子在墨西哥會被殺害。
01:25
So we prepared her for the process
of turning herself over to CBP
of turning herself over to CBP
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所以我們幫她準備流程，
讓她能向 CBP 尋求庇護。
01:28
to ask for asylum.
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01:31
A few days after she'd gone
to the port of entry to ask for help,
to the port of entry to ask for help,
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在她去入境口岸尋求協助的幾天後，
01:34
we received a frantic phone call
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她在美國的家人打電話
給我們，像是抓狂了似的，
給我們，像是抓狂了似的，
01:35
from her family members
in the United States,
in the United States,
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01:38
telling us that CBP officials
had taken Anna's son from her.
had taken Anna's son from her.
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告訴我們 CBP 官員已經
將她的兒子帶離她身邊。
將她的兒子帶離她身邊。
01:42
Now, not that this should matter,
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並不是說這很重要，
01:44
but I knew that Anna's son
had special needs.
had special needs.
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但我知道安娜的兒子有特別的需求。
01:46
And once again,
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又一次，這消息讓我充滿了
慌張和不祥的感覺，
慌張和不祥的感覺，
01:47
this news filled me with the sense
of panic and foreboding
of panic and foreboding
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很不幸，這種感覺已成為
我日常工作的特徵。
我日常工作的特徵。
01:50
that has unfortunately become
a hallmark of my daily work.
a hallmark of my daily work.
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我簽署了授權書，
以安娜的律師的身份行事，
以安娜的律師的身份行事，
01:54
I had a signed authorization
to act as Anna's attorney,
to act as Anna's attorney,
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01:56
so I rushed over to the port of entry
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所以我趕去入境口岸，
01:59
to see if I could speak with my client.
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去看看我能否和我的客戶說話。
02:01
Not only would CBP officials
not let me speak to Anna,
not let me speak to Anna,
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CBP 的官員不僅不讓我跟安娜說話，
02:04
but they wouldn't even tell me
if she was there.
if she was there.
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甚至不告訴我她是否在那裡。
02:07
I went from supervisor to supervisor,
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我找了一個又一個主管，
02:09
begging to submit evidence
of Anna's son's special needs,
of Anna's son's special needs,
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請求讓我提交證據，
說明安娜的兒子有特殊需求，
說明安娜的兒子有特殊需求，
02:12
but no one would even
talk to me about the case.
talk to me about the case.
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但甚至沒有人願意跟我談這個案件。
02:15
It felt surreal to watch
the shoppers strolling idly by
the shoppers strolling idly by
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看著購物者無所事事地
從這個攸關生死的情境旁邊
從這個攸關生死的情境旁邊
02:18
what felt like a life-and-death situation.
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閒逛過去，感覺好不真實。
02:21
After several hours
of being stonewalled by CBP,
of being stonewalled by CBP,
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在被 CBP 阻礙了好幾個小時之後，
02:24
I left.
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我離開了。
02:25
Several days later,
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幾天後，
02:27
I found Anna's son
in the foster-care system.
in the foster-care system.
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我在寄養照顧體系中
找到安娜的兒子。
找到安娜的兒子。
02:29
But I didn't know what happened to Anna
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但我不知道安娜的狀況，
02:31
until over a week later,
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直到超過一週後，
02:33
when she turned up
at a detention camp a few miles east.
at a detention camp a few miles east.
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她出現在東邊幾英里外的拘留營中。
02:36
Now, Anna didn't have a criminal record,
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安娜沒有任何犯罪記錄，
02:38
and she followed the law
when asking for asylum.
when asking for asylum.
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且她在尋求庇護時有依循法律。
02:41
Still, immigration officials
held her for three more months,
held her for three more months,
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移民官員仍然又把她拘禁了三個月，
02:45
until we could win her release
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直到我們能幫她爭取到釋放，
02:47
and help her reunify with her son.
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並協助她和她的兒子重聚。
02:49
Anna's story is not
the only story I could tell you.
the only story I could tell you.
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我還可以告訴各位
很多像安娜這樣的故事。
很多像安娜這樣的故事。
02:53
There's Mateo, an 18-month-old boy,
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還有個十八個月大的男孩馬提歐，
02:56
who was ripped from his father's arms
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他被從他父親的懷抱中抓走，
送到幾千英里外的政府庇護所，
02:58
and sent to a government shelter
thousands of miles away,
thousands of miles away,
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03:00
where they failed
to properly bathe him for months.
to properly bathe him for months.
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在那裡，有好幾個月
他們都沒有好好幫他洗澡。
他們都沒有好好幫他洗澡。
03:03
There's Amadou,
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還有一個無人陪伴的
非洲小孩阿馬杜，
非洲小孩阿馬杜，
03:04
an unaccompanied African child,
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03:06
who was held with adults for 28 days
in CBP's horrific facilities.
in CBP's horrific facilities.
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和成人一起關在 CBP 的
可怕機構中足足二十八天。
可怕機構中足足二十八天。
03:12
Most disturbingly, there's Maria,
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最讓人不舒服的是瑪莉亞，
03:14
a pregnant refugee who begged
for medical attention for eight hours
for medical attention for eight hours
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她是懷孕的難民，
懇求醫療照護懇求了八個小時，
03:19
before she miscarried in CBP custody.
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然後她在 CBP 的監管之下流產了。
03:21
CBP officials held her
for three more weeks
for three more weeks
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CBP 官員還把她再關了三個星期，
03:25
before they sent her back to Mexico,
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才把她送回墨西哥，
03:27
where she is being forced to wait months
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在那裡，她被迫等了數個月，
03:29
for an asylum hearing
in the United States.
in the United States.
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才等到在美國的庇護聽證會。
03:32
Seeing these horrors
day in and day out has changed me.
day in and day out has changed me.
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日復一日見到這些
恐怖的狀況，讓我改變了。
恐怖的狀況，讓我改變了。
03:35
I used to be fun at parties,
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以前，在派對上我總是很有趣，
03:37
but now, I inevitably
find myself telling people
find myself telling people
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現在，我總會不由自主要告訴別人
03:41
about how our government
tortures refugees at the border
tortures refugees at the border
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我們的政府在邊界及拘留營中
03:44
and in the detention camps.
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如何虐待難民。
03:46
Now, people try to change the subject
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對方會試著改變話題，
03:48
and congratulate me for the great work
I'm doing in helping people like Anna.
I'm doing in helping people like Anna.
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恭喜我做得很好，
幫助了像安娜這樣的人。
幫助了像安娜這樣的人。
03:52
But I don't know
how to make them understand
how to make them understand
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但我不知道要如何讓他們了解
03:54
that unless they start fighting,
harder than they ever thought possible,
harder than they ever thought possible,
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除非他們開始對抗，
且付出超乎他們想像的努力，
且付出超乎他們想像的努力，
03:58
we don't know which of us
will be the next to suffer Anna's fate.
will be the next to suffer Anna's fate.
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不然我們不會知道，
我們之中誰會成為下一個安娜。
我們之中誰會成為下一個安娜。
川普在南方邊界
大量將難民家庭拆散的政策
大量將難民家庭拆散的政策
04:02
Trump's mass separations
of refugee families
of refugee families
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04:05
at the southern border
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震驚了世界的良知，
04:06
shocked the conscience of the world
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讓許多人驚覺到
美國移民體制的殘酷。
美國移民體制的殘酷。
04:08
and woke many to the cruelties
of the US immigration system.
of the US immigration system.
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04:11
It seems like today,
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似乎，現今，
04:12
more people than ever are involved
in the fight for immigrant rights.
in the fight for immigrant rights.
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為了移民權利而戰的人
比以往都還要多。
比以往都還要多。
04:15
But unfortunately, the situation
is just not getting better.
is just not getting better.
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但不幸的是，情況並沒有好轉。
04:19
Thousands protested
to end family separations,
to end family separations,
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數千人站出來抗議，
要求終止將家庭拆散，
要求終止將家庭拆散，
04:22
but the government
is still separating families.
is still separating families.
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但政府仍然在拆散家庭。
04:25
More than 900 children
have been taken from their parents
have been taken from their parents
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從 2018 年六月至今，
就有超過九百名孩子
被帶離他們的父母，
被帶離他們的父母，
04:28
since June of 2018.
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04:30
Thousands more refugee children
have been taken from their grandparents,
have been taken from their grandparents,
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還有數千名難民孩子在邊界
04:34
siblings and other
family members at the border.
family members at the border.
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被帶離他們的祖父母、手足，
以及其他家庭成員。
以及其他家庭成員。
04:36
Since 2017,
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從 2017 年起，
04:38
at least two dozen people have died
in immigration custody.
in immigration custody.
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至少有二十多個人
在移民監管之下死亡。
在移民監管之下死亡。
04:42
And more will die, including children.
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還有更多人會死亡，包括孩童。
04:46
Now, we lawyers can
and will keep filing lawsuits
and will keep filing lawsuits
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我們律師能，而且會持續提出告訴，
04:49
to stop the government
from brutalizing our clients,
from brutalizing our clients,
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來阻止政府殘酷對待我們的客戶，
04:52
but we can't keep tinkering
around the edges of the law
around the edges of the law
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但如果我們希望移民受到人道對待，
04:55
if we want migrants
to be treated humanely.
to be treated humanely.
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我們就不能只是
在外緣做些小修小補。
在外緣做些小修小補。
04:58
This administration would have you believe
that we have to separate families
that we have to separate families
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政府會要你相信，
我們必須要將家庭拆散，
我們必須要將家庭拆散，
05:02
and we have to detain children,
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我們必須要拘留孩子，
05:04
because it will stop more refugees
from coming to our borders.
from coming to our borders.
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因為這樣才能阻止
更多難民來到我們的邊界。
更多難民來到我們的邊界。
05:07
But we know that this isn't true.
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但我們知道這不是真的。
05:09
In fact, in 2019,
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事實上，2019 年，
05:11
the number of apprehensions
at our southern border
at our southern border
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我們在南方邊界
逮捕的人數其實在上升。
逮捕的人數其實在上升。
05:13
has actually gone up.
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05:15
And we tell people
every day at the border,
every day at the border,
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每天，我們都在邊界告訴大家：
05:17
"If you seek asylum in the United States,
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「若你想向美國尋求庇護，
05:19
you risk family separation,
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就要冒著家庭被拆散、
05:21
and you risk being detained indefinitely."
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無限期被拘留的風險。」
05:23
But for many of them,
the alternative is even worse.
the alternative is even worse.
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但，對他們許多人來說，
另一個選擇更糟糕。
另一個選擇更糟糕。
05:27
People seek refuge in the United States
for a lot of different reasons.
for a lot of different reasons.
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人們向美國尋求庇護的理由很多。
05:32
In Tijuana, we've met refugees
from over 50 countries,
from over 50 countries,
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在提華納，我們見過來自
超過五十個國家的難民，
超過五十個國家的難民，
05:34
speaking 14 different languages.
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說十四種不同的語言。
05:37
We meet LGBT migrants
from all over the world
from all over the world
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我們見過來自世界各地的 LGBT
（同/雙性戀與跨性別）移民，
（同/雙性戀與跨性別）移民，
05:40
who have never been in a country
in which they feel safe.
in which they feel safe.
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未曾到過讓他們感到安全的國家。
05:43
We meet women from all over the world
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我們見過來自世界各地的女性，
05:45
whose own governments
refuse to protect them
refuse to protect them
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她們自己的政府拒絕保護她們，
05:47
from brutal domestic violence
or repressive social norms.
or repressive social norms.
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讓她們遭受殘忍的家庭暴力
或壓迫式的社會規範。
或壓迫式的社會規範。
05:51
Of course, we meet
Central American families
Central American families
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當然，我們也見過中美洲的家庭，
05:53
who are fleeing gang violence.
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他們要逃離幫派暴力。
05:55
But we also meet Russian dissidents,
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2016
但我們也見過俄國的異議人士、
委內瑞拉活動家、
委內瑞拉活動家、
05:57
Venezuelan activists,
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1484
05:59
Christians from China, Muslims from China,
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來自中國的基督徒、穆斯林，
06:03
and thousands and thousands
of other refugees
of other refugees
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還有數以千計的其他難民，
06:05
fleeing all types
of persecution and torture.
of persecution and torture.
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想要逃離各種迫害和虐待。
06:08
Now, a lot of these people
would qualify as refugees
would qualify as refugees
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根據國際法的定義，這些人當中，
06:12
under the international legal definition.
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很多都符合難民的資格，
06:14
The Refugee Convention
was created after World War II
was created after World War II
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難民地位公約是在
二次大戰後訂立的，
二次大戰後訂立的，
06:18
to give protection to people
fleeing persecution
fleeing persecution
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旨在保護逃離迫害的人，
06:21
based on their race, religion,
nationality, political opinion
nationality, political opinion
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4440
因為種族、宗教、國籍、政治意見，
06:25
or membership
in a particular social group.
in a particular social group.
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或因是特定社會族群的一員
而遭受迫害的人。
而遭受迫害的人。
06:28
But even those who would be refugees
under the international definition
under the international definition
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但即使是符合國際定義的難民，
06:32
are not going to win asylum
in the United States.
in the United States.
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也無法取得在美國的庇護權。
06:34
And that's because since 2017,
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那是因為，從 2017 年起，
06:37
the US Attorneys General have made
sweeping changes to asylum law,
sweeping changes to asylum law,
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美國總檢察長針對庇護法
做了大刀闊斧的改變，
做了大刀闊斧的改變，
06:41
to make sure that less people qualify
for protection in the United States.
for protection in the United States.
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以確保符合美國
保護資格的人數變少。
保護資格的人數變少。
06:45
Now these laws are mostly aimed
at Central Americans
at Central Americans
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這些法律的主要對象是中美洲人，
06:48
and keeping them out of the country,
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想避免他們進入美國，
06:50
but they affect other types
of refugees as well.
of refugees as well.
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但也會影響到其他類的難民。
06:53
The result is that the US
frequently deports refugees
frequently deports refugees
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結果是，美國經常遣返難民，
06:57
to their persecution and death.
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讓他們面臨迫害及死亡。
07:00
The US is also using detention
to try to deter refugees
to try to deter refugees
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美國也用拘留手段來威懾難民，
07:04
and make it harder for them
to win their cases.
to win their cases.
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且讓他們更難勝訴。
07:07
Today, there are over 55,000 immigrants
detained in the United States,
detained in the United States,
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4849
現今，有超過五萬五千名
移民被拘留在美國，
移民被拘留在美國，
07:12
many in remote detention facilities,
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2452
許多是拘留在偏遠的拘留機構中，
07:14
far from any type of legal help.
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遠離任何法律協助。
07:16
And this is very important.
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2002
這點非常重要。
07:18
Because it's civil
and not criminal detention,
and not criminal detention,
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3015
因為這是民事而非刑事拘留，
07:21
there is no public defender system,
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2278
沒有公設辯護人的體制，
07:23
so most detained immigrants
are not going to have an attorney
are not going to have an attorney
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所以，多數被拘留的移民
不會有律師協助處理案件。
不會有律師協助處理案件。
07:26
to help them with their cases.
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1499
07:28
An immigrant who has an attorney
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2055
有律師的移民
07:30
is up to 10 times more likely
to win their case
to win their case
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勝訴的機會比沒有
律師的移民高出十倍。
律師的移民高出十倍。
07:33
than one who doesn't.
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1400
07:35
And as you've seen, I hate
to be the bearer of bad news,
to be the bearer of bad news,
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各位已經知道，我很討厭
當傳遞壞消息的人，
當傳遞壞消息的人，
07:38
but the situation is even worse
for refugee families today
for refugee families today
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3334
但現今難民家庭隔離期間
所面臨的情況比以往更加糟糕。
07:42
than it was during family separation.
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2429
07:44
Since January of 2019,
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2492
2019 年一月起，
07:47
the US has implemented a policy
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1778
美國實施了一項政策，
07:49
that's forced over 40,000 refugees
to wait in Mexico
to wait in Mexico
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4023
迫使超過四萬名難民
在墨西哥等待美國的庇護聽證會。
07:53
for asylum hearings in the United States.
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2938
07:56
These refugees, many of whom are families,
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2825
這些難民中有很多都是家庭，
07:58
are trapped in some of the most
dangerous cities in the world,
dangerous cities in the world,
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3126
他們被困在世界上
最危險的一些城市中，
最危險的一些城市中，
08:02
where they're being raped, kidnapped
169
470023
1962
在那裡，他們被犯罪集團
強暴、綁架、勒索。
強暴、綁架、勒索。
08:04
and extorted by criminal groups.
170
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2171
08:06
And if they survive for long enough
to make it to their asylum hearing,
to make it to their asylum hearing,
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3611
如果他們能撐到庇護聽證會，
08:09
less than one percent of them
are able to find an attorney
are able to find an attorney
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3340
只有不到 1% 的人能找到律師
08:13
to help them with their cases.
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2000
來協助處理他們的案件。
08:16
The US government will point
to the lowest asylum approval rates
to the lowest asylum approval rates
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4560
美國政府會用最低的庇護核准率，
08:20
to argue that these people
are not really refugees,
are not really refugees,
175
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2508
主張這些人不是真的難民，
08:23
when in fact, US asylum law
is an obstacle course
is an obstacle course
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3706
但，事實上，美國的庇護法本身
就是一種障礙賽，
設計來讓難民申請失敗的。
設計來讓難民申請失敗的。
08:27
designed to make them fail.
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495209
1785
08:29
Now not every migrant
at the border is a refugee.
at the border is a refugee.
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2949
在邊界的移民並非都是難民，
08:31
I meet plenty of economic migrants.
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2087
我遇過許多經濟移民。
08:34
For example, people who want to go
to the United States to work,
to the United States to work,
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3095
比如，有些人是想到美國工作，
08:37
to pay medical bills for a parent
181
505221
1786
以支付父母親的醫療費用，
或孩子在家鄉的學費。
或孩子在家鄉的學費。
08:39
or school fees for a child back home.
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2643
08:41
Increasingly, I'm also meeting
climate refugees.
climate refugees.
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3011
我漸漸也遇到一些氣候難民。
08:44
In particular, I'm meeting
a lot of indigenous Central Americans
a lot of indigenous Central Americans
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512733
3810
特別是一些中美洲的原住民，
08:48
who can no longer
sustain themselves by farming,
sustain themselves by farming,
185
516567
2746
他們所處的地區發生災難性的乾旱，
08:51
due to catastrophic drought in the region.
186
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2189
讓他們無法再靠農業來維生。
08:54
We know that today,
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1738
我們知道，現今，
08:55
people are migrating
because of climate change,
because of climate change,
188
523823
2738
有些人會因為氣候變遷而移居，
08:58
and that more will do so in the future,
189
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2191
在未來還會越來越多這樣的人，
09:00
but we simply don't have a legal system
to deal with this type of migration.
to deal with this type of migration.
190
528800
3713
但我們卻沒有法律制度
可以處理這種移民。
可以處理這種移民。
09:05
So, it would make sense, as a start,
191
533522
3319
所以，合理的做法是，
可以從擴展難民的定義開始著手，
09:08
to expand the refugee definition
192
536865
1839
09:10
to include climate refugees, for example.
193
538728
2857
比如將氣候難民也納入。
09:13
But those of us in a position
to advocate for those changes
to advocate for those changes
194
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2881
但是我們這些主張改變的人
09:16
are too busy suing our government
195
544514
1857
忙於起訴我們的政府，
09:18
to keep the meager legal protections
that refugees enjoy under the current law.
that refugees enjoy under the current law.
196
546395
4015
以保持難民在現行法律下
所享有的微薄的法律保護。
所享有的微薄的法律保護。
09:22
And we are exhausted,
197
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2033
我們累壞了，
09:24
and it's almost too late to help.
198
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2200
現在伸出援手也幾乎是太遲了。
09:27
And we know now
199
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1158
我們現在知道
這不只是美國的問題。
這不只是美國的問題。
09:28
that this isn't America's problem alone.
200
556942
2279
09:31
From Australia's brutal
offshore detention camps
offshore detention camps
201
559245
3245
從澳洲殘酷的近海拘留營，
09:34
to Italy's criminalization of aid
to migrants drowning in the Mediterranean,
to migrants drowning in the Mediterranean,
202
562514
5293
到在義大利將援助地中海
快要淹死的移民定為刑事犯罪，
09:39
first-world countries
have gone to deadly lengths
have gone to deadly lengths
203
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2810
第一世界國家不遺餘力
09:42
to keep refugees from reaching our shores.
204
570665
2595
防範難民登陸。
09:45
But they've done more
than restrict the refugee definition.
than restrict the refugee definition.
205
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3345
但，它們所做的不只是
限制難民的定義。
限制難民的定義。
09:49
They've created parallel,
fascist-style legal systems
fascist-style legal systems
206
577009
3341
它們創造出了平行的
法西斯風格法律制度，
法西斯風格法律制度，
09:52
in which migrants have none of the rights
that form the basis of a democracy,
that form the basis of a democracy,
207
580374
4095
在這樣的制度下，移民完全沒有
形成民主基礎的那些權利，
形成民主基礎的那些權利，
09:56
the alleged foundation of the countries
in which they're seeking refuge.
in which they're seeking refuge.
208
584493
3714
據稱這些權利還是他們
尋求庇護的國家的基礎。
尋求庇護的國家的基礎。
歷史告訴我們，第一個被詆毀
10:00
History shows us that the first group
209
588776
1945
10:02
to be vilified and stripped
of their rights is rarely the last,
of their rights is rarely the last,
210
590745
3793
並被剝奪權利的族群，
通常都不是最後一個，
通常都不是最後一個，
10:06
and many Americans and Europeans
211
594562
2492
且，許多美國人和歐洲人
10:09
seem to accept an opaque
and unjust legal system for noncitizens,
and unjust legal system for noncitizens,
212
597078
4161
似乎能接受非公民受到不透明、
不公正的法律制度對待，
不公正的法律制度對待，
10:13
because they think they are immune.
213
601263
1738
因為認為不會發生在自己身上。
10:15
But eventually,
214
603025
1206
但最終
10:16
these authoritarian ideals bleed over
and affect citizens as well.
and affect citizens as well.
215
604255
3634
這些專制理念也會影響到公民。
我親身學到這件事，
10:20
I learned this firsthand
216
608644
1505
10:22
when the US government placed me
on an illegal watch list
on an illegal watch list
217
610173
2999
當時美國政府把我
列入非法觀察名單中，
列入非法觀察名單中，
10:25
for my work helping
immigrants at the border.
immigrants at the border.
218
613196
2548
因為我在邊界做協助移民的工作。
10:28
One day, in January of 2019,
219
616411
1952
2019 年一月的某一天，
10:30
I was leaving my office in San Diego
220
618387
1911
我離開聖地牙哥的辦公室，
10:32
and crossing the border
to go back to my home in Mexico.
to go back to my home in Mexico.
221
620322
2628
跨越邊界要回到我在墨西哥的家。
10:35
Mexican officials, although they had
given me a valid visa,
given me a valid visa,
222
623609
3303
雖然墨西哥官員
先前給了我有效的簽證，
先前給了我有效的簽證，
10:38
stopped me and told me
that I couldn't enter the country
that I couldn't enter the country
223
626936
2739
仍然把我擋下來，說我不能入關，
10:41
because a foreign government
had placed a travel alert on my passport,
had placed a travel alert on my passport,
224
629699
3824
因為有一個外國政府
針對我的護照發了旅行警示，
針對我的護照發了旅行警示，
10:45
designating me
as a national security risk.
as a national security risk.
225
633547
2682
指稱我會造成國家安全的風險。
10:48
I was detained and interrogated
in a filthy room for hours.
in a filthy room for hours.
226
636253
3740
我被拘留在一間骯髒的房間
並接受訊問數個小時。
並接受訊問數個小時。
10:52
I begged the Mexican officials
227
640017
1476
我求墨西哥官員
10:53
to let me go back to Mexico
and pick up my son,
and pick up my son,
228
641517
2872
讓我回去墨西哥接我的兒子，
10:56
who was only 10 months old at the time.
229
644413
2286
那時他才十個月大。
但他們拒絕了，反之，
10:59
But they refused,
230
647515
1160
11:00
and instead, they turned me over
to CBP officials,
to CBP officials,
231
648699
2442
他們將我移交給 CBP 官員，
11:03
where I was forced back
into the United States.
into the United States.
232
651165
2745
他們強迫我回到美國。
11:05
It took me weeks to get another visa
so that I could go back to Mexico,
so that I could go back to Mexico,
233
653934
3472
我花了數週的時間才取得
另一張簽證讓我回墨西哥，
另一張簽證讓我回墨西哥，
11:09
and I went to the border, visa in hand.
234
657430
2635
我到了邊界，手上拿著簽證。
11:12
But again, I was detained and interrogated
235
660089
2047
但，我再次被拘留和訊問，
11:14
because there was still
a travel alert on my passport.
a travel alert on my passport.
236
662160
2873
因為我的護照仍然
在旅行警示名單上。
在旅行警示名單上。
11:17
Shortly after,
237
665597
1274
沒多久之後，
11:18
leaked internal CBP documents
238
666895
2033
流出來的 CBP 內部文件
11:20
confirmed that my own government
239
668952
2054
證實了我自己的政府
11:23
had been complicit in issuing
this travel alert against me.
this travel alert against me.
240
671030
3144
共謀針對我發出旅行警示。
11:26
And since then, I haven't traveled
to any other countries,
to any other countries,
241
674538
2968
那之後，我就沒有再
旅行到任何其他國家，
旅行到任何其他國家，
11:29
because I'm afraid I'll be detained
242
677530
1873
因為我擔心我會被拘留，
11:31
and deported from those countries as well.
243
679427
2333
且被驅逐出那些國家。
11:34
These travel restrictions, detentions
244
682228
2286
這些旅行限制、拘留，
11:36
and separation from my infant son
245
684538
2087
及把我跟襁褓中的兒子分離，
11:38
are things I never thought
I would experience as a US citizen,
I would experience as a US citizen,
246
686649
4078
我從來沒有預期到
身為美國公民會遇到這些事，
身為美國公民會遇到這些事，
11:42
but I'm far from the only person
being criminalized for helping immigrants.
being criminalized for helping immigrants.
247
690751
3952
但除了我之外還有很多人，
也都因為協助移民而被當成罪犯。
也都因為協助移民而被當成罪犯。
11:46
The US and other countries
have made it a crime to save lives,
have made it a crime to save lives,
248
694727
3762
美國和其他國家讓拯救人命
變成了犯罪行為，
變成了犯罪行為，
11:50
and those of us who are simply
trying to do our jobs
trying to do our jobs
249
698513
2929
而我們這些只是想做好工作的人
11:53
are being forced to choose
between our humanity and our freedom.
between our humanity and our freedom.
250
701466
3448
則被迫要在自身的
人性和自由間抉擇。
人性和自由間抉擇。
11:57
And the thing that makes me so desperate
251
705498
1912
讓我感到非常絕望的是，
11:59
is that all of you
are facing the same choice,
are facing the same choice,
252
707434
2564
各位都面臨同樣的抉擇，
12:02
but you don't understand it yet.
253
710022
1881
只是你們還不知道。
12:04
And I know there are
good people out there.
good people out there.
254
712553
2342
我知道外頭有些好人存在。
12:06
I saw thousands of you in the streets,
255
714919
1912
我看到數千人走上街頭
12:08
protesting family separation.
256
716855
1933
抗議將家庭拆散。
12:11
And that largely helped
bring about an end to the official policy.
bring about an end to the official policy.
257
719268
3642
這些動作對於終止
這官方政策有很大的幫助。
這官方政策有很大的幫助。
12:15
But we know that the government
is still separating children.
is still separating children.
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但我們知道政府仍在將孩童分離。
12:18
And things are actually getting worse.
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情況還變得更糟糕。
12:20
Today, the US government
is fighting for the right
is fighting for the right
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現今，美國政府在爭取將難民孩童
12:23
to detain refugee children
indefinitely in prison camps.
indefinitely in prison camps.
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無限期拘留在拘留營中的權利。
12:27
This isn't over.
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這還沒結束。
12:28
We cannot allow ourselves
to become numb or look away.
to become numb or look away.
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我們不能讓我們自己
麻木或當作沒看見。
麻木或當作沒看見。
12:33
Those of us who are citizens of countries
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是我們國家的政策
12:35
whose policies cause detention,
separation and death,
separation and death,
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在造成拘留、拆散，及死亡，
12:39
need to very quickly decide
which side we're on.
which side we're on.
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我們公民必須很快
決定站在哪一邊。
決定站在哪一邊。
12:42
We need to demand that our laws respect
the inherent dignity of all human beings,
the inherent dignity of all human beings,
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我們得要要求我們的法律
尊重所有人類與生俱來的尊嚴，
尊重所有人類與生俱來的尊嚴，
12:47
especially refugees
seeking help at our borders,
seeking help at our borders,
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特別是在我們的邊界
尋求協助的難民，
尋求協助的難民，
12:50
but including economic migrants
and climate refugees.
and climate refugees.
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但也包括經濟移民及氣候難民。
12:54
We need to demand
that refugees get a fair shot
that refugees get a fair shot
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我們得要讓那些難民有平等的機會
12:57
at seeking protection in our countries
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在我們的國家內尋求保護，
12:59
by ensuring that they have
access to council
access to council
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做法是要確保他們能商議協調，
13:02
and by creating independent courts
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並建立獨立的法庭，
13:03
that are not subject
to the political whims of the president.
to the political whims of the president.
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這些法庭不能受到總統
一時政治念頭的影響。
一時政治念頭的影響。
13:08
I know it's overwhelming,
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我知道要做的非常多，
13:09
and I know this sounds cliché, but ...
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我知道這些起來很老套，但……
13:13
we need to call
our elected representatives
our elected representatives
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我們得要打電話給我們選出的代表，
13:15
and demand these changes.
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要求做出這些改變。
13:18
I know you've heard this before,
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我知道各位以前就聽過這些，
但你們打電話了嗎？
但你們打電話了嗎？
13:19
but have you made the call?
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13:21
We know these calls make a difference.
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我們知道這些電話能造成不同。
13:24
The dystopian immigration systems
being built up in first-world countries
being built up in first-world countries
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第一世界國家所建立的
這些反烏托邦移民體制
這些反烏托邦移民體制
13:28
are a test of citizens
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是對公民的考驗，
13:31
to see how far you're willing
to let the government go
to let the government go
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要測試的是當你們認為
這些事不會發生在自己身上時，
這些事不會發生在自己身上時，
13:34
in taking away other people's rights
when you think it won't happen to you.
when you think it won't happen to you.
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願意讓政府奪取
他人的權利到什麼程度。
他人的權利到什麼程度。
13:39
But when you let the government
take people's children
take people's children
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但，當你們允許政府不經過
適當的流程就帶走別人的孩子，
適當的流程就帶走別人的孩子，
13:41
without due process
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13:43
and detain people indefinitely
without access to council,
without access to council,
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並無期限拘留別人，
不讓他們取得諮詢，
不讓他們取得諮詢，
13:46
you are failing the test.
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你們就是沒有通過考驗。
13:49
What's happening to immigrants now
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現在是移民遇到這些事，
13:51
is a preview of where we're all headed
if we fail to act.
if we fail to act.
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我們如果不採取行動，
將來就換我們了。
將來就換我們了。
13:55
Thank you.
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謝謝。
13:56
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Erika Pinheiro - Immigration attorneyErika Pinheiro fights to protect migrant rights and reunify families. She leads non-profits whose projects have helped thousands of immigrants on both sides of the US-Mexico border.
Why you should listen
As Litigation and Policy Director of the direct legal services non-profit Al Otro Lado, Erika Pinheiro leads her organization's efforts in filing class action lawsuits challenging the Trump administration's attacks on the US asylum system, as well as slave labor practices and severe medical neglect in immigration detention facilities. Her team has reunified dozens of separated families, including parents who were deported without their children, and has freed dozens of asylum seekers detained at the border. Before joining Al Otro Lado, Pinheiro administered one of the largest DACA programs in California, as well as representation programs for Unaccompanied Children. She also oversaw high-volume Legal Orientation Programs for adults and children detained in immigration prisons.
Pinheiro's work on behalf of unaccompanied children, refugee families and vulnerable detained migrants is frequently featured in national and international media outlets. She also provides on-the-ground context regarding US border policies to policy makers, including state Attorneys General, members of the US Congress and California elected officials. She has also provided technical assistance and numerous trainings regarding immigration law and policy to attorneys, the California State Bar, Federal Public Defender offices and Los Angeles County agencies.
Pinheiro holds both a JD and MPP from Georgetown University and is trained in econometric analysis of immigration policy. Her thesis analyzed the intersection between immigration enforcement by local police and crime.
Erika Pinheiro | Speaker | TED.com