TED2015
Esther Perel: Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved
Esther Perel: Nytænkning af utroskab, en tale til alle, der har elsket
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Parterapeut Esther Perel undersøger utroskab og afslører, hvorfor affærer er så traumatiske: de truer vores følelsesmæssige tryghed. Hun finder noget uventet i utroskab - et udtryk for længsel og tab. Vigtigt for alle, der har været utro eller er blevet svigtet, eller som simpelthen ønsker en ny måde at forstå parforhold på.
Esther Perel - Relationship therapist
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Why do we cheat?
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Hvorfor er vi utro?
00:16
And why do happy people cheat?
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Og hvorfor er lykkelige mennesker utro?
00:20
And when we say "infidelity,"
what exactly do we mean?
what exactly do we mean?
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Når vi siger utroskab,
hvad mener vi så helt præcist?
hvad mener vi så helt præcist?
00:26
Is it a hookup, a love story,
paid sex, a chat room,
paid sex, a chat room,
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Er det tilfældig sex, forelskelse,
betalt sex, et chatroom,
betalt sex, et chatroom,
00:32
a massage with a happy ending?
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intimmassage?
00:36
Why do we think that men cheat
out of boredom and fear of intimacy,
out of boredom and fear of intimacy,
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Hvorfor tror vi, at mænd er utro
pga. kedsomhed og frygt for nærhed,
pga. kedsomhed og frygt for nærhed,
00:41
but women cheat out of loneliness
and hunger for intimacy?
and hunger for intimacy?
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og kvinder er utro pga. ensomhed
og længsel efter nærhed?
og længsel efter nærhed?
00:47
And is an affair always
the end of a relationship?
the end of a relationship?
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Betyder en affære altid
afslutningen på et forhold?
afslutningen på et forhold?
00:53
For the past 10 years,
I have traveled the globe
I have traveled the globe
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De sidste 10 år har jeg rejst over
hele verden
hele verden
00:56
and worked extensively
with hundreds of couples
with hundreds of couples
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og arbejdet grundigt
med hundredvis af par,
med hundredvis af par,
00:59
who have been shattered by infidelity.
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der er blevet ødelagt af utroskab.
01:02
There is one simple act of transgression
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Der er én eneste overtrædelse,
01:06
that can rob a couple
of their relationship,
of their relationship,
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som kan frarøve et par deres forhold,
01:11
their happiness and their
very identity: an affair.
very identity: an affair.
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deres lykke og hele deres identitet:
en affære.
en affære.
01:15
And yet, this extremely common
act is so poorly understood.
act is so poorly understood.
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Og alligevel er denne yderst almindelige
handling meget dårligt forstået.
handling meget dårligt forstået.
01:22
So this talk is for anyone
who has ever loved.
who has ever loved.
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Denne tale er for alle, der har elsket.
01:29
Adultery has existed
since marriage was invented,
since marriage was invented,
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Ægteskabsbrud har fundet sted
lige siden ægteskab blev opfundet,
lige siden ægteskab blev opfundet,
01:33
and so, too, the taboo against it.
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og ligeledes tabu'et omkring det.
01:37
In fact, infidelity has a tenacity
that marriage can only envy,
that marriage can only envy,
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Faktisk har utroskab en vedholdenhed,
som ægteskabet må misunde,
som ægteskabet må misunde,
01:42
so much so, that this is
the only commandment
the only commandment
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så meget, at det er
det eneste af de ti bud,
det eneste af de ti bud,
01:46
that is repeated twice in the Bible:
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som er gentaget to gange:
01:50
once for doing it, and once
just for thinking about it.
just for thinking about it.
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én gang for at udføre det,
og én gang bare for at tænke på det.
og én gang bare for at tænke på det.
01:54
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
01:56
So how do we reconcile
what is universally forbidden,
what is universally forbidden,
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Så hvordan forener vi det,
der er forbudt overalt
der er forbudt overalt
02:00
yet universally practiced?
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med det, der praktiseres overalt?
02:05
Now, throughout history, men
practically had a license to cheat
practically had a license to cheat
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Historisk set har mænd
haft licens til at være utro
haft licens til at være utro
02:10
with little consequence,
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med kun få konsekvenser
02:12
and supported by a host
of biological and evolutionary theories
of biological and evolutionary theories
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og støttet af biologiske
og evolutionære teorier,
og evolutionære teorier,
02:16
that justified their need to roam,
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der retfærdiggjorde
deres behov for utroskab.
deres behov for utroskab.
02:19
so the double standard
is as old as adultery itself.
is as old as adultery itself.
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Så dobbeltmoralen er ligeså
gammel som selve ægteskabsbrudet.
gammel som selve ægteskabsbrudet.
02:24
But who knows what's really going on
under the sheets there, right?
under the sheets there, right?
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Men hvem ved,
hvad der virkelig foregår under dynen?
hvad der virkelig foregår under dynen?
02:29
Because when it comes to sex,
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For når det drejer sig om sex,
02:31
the pressure for men
is to boast and to exaggerate,
is to boast and to exaggerate,
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er mænd pressede til
at prale og overdrive.
at prale og overdrive.
02:35
but the pressure for women
is to hide, minimize and deny,
is to hide, minimize and deny,
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Kvinder er pressede til at skjule det,
gøre det mindre og fornægte.
gøre det mindre og fornægte.
02:41
which isn't surprising when you consider
that there are still nine countries
that there are still nine countries
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Det er ikke overraskende set i lyset af,
at der stadig er ni lande,
at der stadig er ni lande,
02:45
where women can be killed for straying.
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hvor kvinder kan blive
henrettet for utroskab.
henrettet for utroskab.
02:49
Now, monogamy used to be
one person for life.
one person for life.
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Monogami plejede at betyde
én person hele livet.
én person hele livet.
02:54
Today, monogamy is one person at a time.
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I vore dage betyder det
én person ad gangen.
én person ad gangen.
02:58
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
03:00
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
03:04
I mean, many of you probably have said,
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Måske har mange af jer sagt:
03:06
"I am monogamous in all my relationships."
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"Jeg er monogam i alle mine forhold."
03:09
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
03:12
We used to marry,
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Vi plejede at gifte os
03:14
and had sex for the first time.
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og have sex for første gang,
03:16
But now we marry,
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men nu gifter vi os
03:18
and we stop having sex with others.
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og slutter med
at have sex med andre.
at have sex med andre.
03:21
The fact is that monogamy
had nothing to do with love.
had nothing to do with love.
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Faktum er, at monogami har
intet med kærlighed at gøre.
intet med kærlighed at gøre.
03:26
Men relied on women's fidelity
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Mænd stoler på kvinders troskab
03:28
in order to know whose children these are,
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for at kunne vide, hvis børn det er,
03:31
and who gets the cows when I die.
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og hvem skal have køerne, når jeg dør?
03:36
Now, everyone wants to know
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Alle vil gerne vide,
03:38
what percentage of people cheat.
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hvor stor en procentdel, der er utro.
03:40
I've been asked that question
since I arrived at this conference.
since I arrived at this conference.
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Jeg er blevet stillet det spørgsmål,
siden jeg ankom til denne konference.
siden jeg ankom til denne konference.
03:43
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
03:46
It applies to you.
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Det gælder også jer.
03:48
But the definition of infidelity
keeps on expanding:
keeps on expanding:
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Men definitionen af utroskab
bliver ved med at udvide sig:
bliver ved med at udvide sig:
03:52
sexting, watching porn, staying
secretly active on dating apps.
secretly active on dating apps.
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Sende sexbeskeder, se porno,
hemmelig aktivitet på datingsider.
hemmelig aktivitet på datingsider.
03:58
So because there is no
universally agreed-upon definition
universally agreed-upon definition
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Fordi der ikke er nogen generel enighed
om definitionen af utroskab,
om definitionen af utroskab,
04:02
of what even constitutes an infidelity,
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hvad der overhovedet kan kaldes utroskab,
04:05
estimates vary widely,
from 26 percent to 75 percent.
from 26 percent to 75 percent.
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vurderes det meget bredt:
fra 26 % til 75 %.
fra 26 % til 75 %.
04:12
But on top of it, we are
walking contradictions.
walking contradictions.
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Derudover er vi omvandrende modsætninger.
04:16
So 95 percent of us will say
that it is terribly wrong
that it is terribly wrong
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95 % af os synes, at det er forkert
04:19
for our partner to lie
about having an affair,
about having an affair,
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af vores partner at lyve
om at have en affære,
om at have en affære,
04:22
but just about the same
amount of us will say
amount of us will say
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men det samme antal af os vil sige,
04:25
that that's exactly what we
would do if we were having one.
would do if we were having one.
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at det er præcis det,
vi selv ville gøre, hvis vi havde en.
vi selv ville gøre, hvis vi havde en.
04:28
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
04:31
Now, I like this definition
of an affair --
of an affair --
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Min yndlingsdefinition på en affære,
04:35
it brings together the three key elements:
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kombinerer de tre nøgle-elementer:
04:39
a secretive relationship,
which is the core structure of an affair;
which is the core structure of an affair;
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Et hemmeligt forhold,
som er kernestrukturen i en affære,
som er kernestrukturen i en affære,
04:45
an emotional connection
to one degree or another;
to one degree or another;
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en følelsesmæssig forbindelse
i større eller mindre grad,
i større eller mindre grad,
04:49
and a sexual alchemy.
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og en seksuel kemi.
04:52
And alchemy is the key word here,
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Kemi er nøgleordet her
04:55
because the erotic frisson is such that
the kiss that you only imagine giving,
the kiss that you only imagine giving,
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for det erotiske sus virker sådan,
at et kys, man kun fantaserer om
at et kys, man kun fantaserer om
05:02
can be as powerful and as enchanting
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kan være ligeså livgivende og fortryllende
05:05
as hours of actual lovemaking.
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som en timelang elskovsakt.
05:09
As Marcel Proust said,
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Marcel Proust sagde:
05:11
it's our imagination that is responsible
for love, not the other person.
for love, not the other person.
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"Det er vores fantasi, der er ansvarlig
for kærlighed, ikke den anden person."
for kærlighed, ikke den anden person."
05:17
So it's never been easier to cheat,
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Det har aldrig været lettere at være utro
05:21
and it's never been more
difficult to keep a secret.
difficult to keep a secret.
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og det har aldrig været sværere
at holde på en hemmelighed.
at holde på en hemmelighed.
05:25
And never has infidelity exacted
such a psychological toll.
such a psychological toll.
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Og aldrig tidligere har utroskab kostet
så dyrt, rent psykologisk.
så dyrt, rent psykologisk.
05:31
When marriage was an economic enterprise,
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Da ægteskabet var en økonomisk forretning,
05:35
infidelity threatened
our economic security.
our economic security.
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truede utroskab vor økonomiske tryghed.
05:39
But now that marriage
is a romantic arrangement,
is a romantic arrangement,
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Men nu hvor ægteskabet er bygget på romantik,
05:41
infidelity threatens
our emotional security.
our emotional security.
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truer utroskab vor
følelsesmæssige tryghed.
følelsesmæssige tryghed.
05:45
Ironically, we used to turn to adultery --
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Ironisk set plejede vi at ty til utroskab
05:50
that was the space where
we sought pure love.
we sought pure love.
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for at finde ægte kærlighed,
05:53
But now that we seek love in marriage,
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men nu hvor vi søger
kærlighed i ægteskabet,
kærlighed i ægteskabet,
05:55
adultery destroys it.
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bliver det ødelagt af utroskab.
05:58
Now, there are three ways that I think
infidelity hurts differently today.
infidelity hurts differently today.
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Der er tre måder, hvor utroskab
gør anderledes ondt i vore dage.
gør anderledes ondt i vore dage.
06:05
We have a romantic ideal
in which we turn to one person
in which we turn to one person
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Vi har et romantisk ideal, hvor vi
vender os mod ét menneske
vender os mod ét menneske
06:11
to fulfill an endless list of needs:
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for at få opfyldt en
uendelig række behov:
uendelig række behov:
06:14
to be my greatest lover, my best friend,
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At være min bedste elsker, min bedste ven
06:18
the best parent, my trusted confidant,
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den bedste forælder, min fortrolige,
06:21
my emotional companion,
my intellectual equal.
my intellectual equal.
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min følelsesmæssige følgesvend,
min intellektuelle ligemand.
min intellektuelle ligemand.
06:25
And I am it: I'm chosen, I'm unique,
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Og jeg er det; Jeg er udvalgt, jeg er unik,
06:29
I'm indispensable, I'm irreplaceable,
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jeg er uundværlig, jeg er uerstattelig.
06:33
I'm the one.
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Jeg er den eneste ene.
06:35
And infidelity tells me I'm not.
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Og utroskab afslører, at det er jeg ikke.
06:39
It is the ultimate betrayal.
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Det er det ultimative bedrag.
06:41
Infidelity shatters
the grand ambition of love.
the grand ambition of love.
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Utroskab ødelægger den
store ambition ved kærlighed.
store ambition ved kærlighed.
06:46
But if throughout history,
infidelity has always been painful,
infidelity has always been painful,
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Historisk set har utroskab
altid været smertefuld.
altid været smertefuld.
06:51
today it is often traumatic,
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I vore dage er det ofte traumatisk,
06:53
because it threatens our sense of self.
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for det truer vores selvfølelse.
06:57
So my patient Fernando, he's plagued.
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Min patient Fernando er martret.
06:59
He goes on: "I thought I knew my life.
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Han siger: "Jeg troede, jeg kendte mit liv.
07:02
I thought I knew who you were,
who we were as a couple, who I was.
who we were as a couple, who I was.
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Jeg troede, jeg vidste hvem du var,
hvem vi var som par, hvem jeg var.
hvem vi var som par, hvem jeg var.
07:06
Now, I question everything."
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Nu stiller jeg spørgsmål til alt".
07:09
Infidelity -- a violation of trust,
a crisis of identity.
a crisis of identity.
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Utroskab -- et tillidsbrud,
en identitetskrise.
en identitetskrise.
07:14
"Can I ever trust you again?" he asks.
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"Kan jeg nogensinde stole på dig igen?"
07:17
"Can I ever trust anyone again?"
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"Kan jeg nogensinde stole på nogen?"
spørger han.
spørger han.
07:20
And this is also what my patient
Heather is telling me,
Heather is telling me,
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Min patient Heather fortæller det samme
07:23
when she's talking to me
about her story with Nick.
about her story with Nick.
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om sin oplevelse med Nick.
07:26
Married, two kids.
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Gift, to børn.
07:27
Nick just left on a business trip,
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Nick er lige taget på forretningsrejse,
07:30
and Heather is playing
on his iPad with the boys,
on his iPad with the boys,
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og Heather spiller på
hans Ipad med drengene,
hans Ipad med drengene,
07:34
when she sees a message
appear on the screen:
appear on the screen:
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da hun ser en besked på skærmen:
07:37
"Can't wait to see you."
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"Glæder mig til at se dig".
07:39
Strange, she thinks,
we just saw each other.
we just saw each other.
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"Besynderligt," tænker hun,
"vi har lige været sammen."
"vi har lige været sammen."
07:42
And then another message:
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Og så en ny besked:
07:44
"Can't wait to hold you in my arms."
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"Glæder mig til at holde dig i mine arme."
07:47
And Heather realizes
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Og Heather indser
07:50
these are not for her.
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at beskederne ikke er til hende.
07:52
She also tells me
that her father had affairs,
that her father had affairs,
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Hun fortæller mig også,
at hendes far havde affærer,
at hendes far havde affærer,
07:55
but her mother, she found
one little receipt in the pocket,
one little receipt in the pocket,
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og hendes mor fandt
en regning i hans lomme.
en regning i hans lomme.
07:59
and a little bit of lipstick
on the collar.
on the collar.
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og lidt læbestift på hans krave.
08:03
Heather, she goes digging,
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Heather begynder at lede,
08:06
and she finds hundreds of messages,
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og hun finder i hundredvis af beskeder
08:09
and photos exchanged
and desires expressed.
and desires expressed.
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og udvekslede billeder og udtrykt begær.
08:13
The vivid details
of Nick's two-year affair
of Nick's two-year affair
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De levende detaljer fra
Nicks to år lange affære
Nicks to år lange affære
08:16
unfold in front of her in real time,
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udfolder sig for hende lige der.
08:19
And it made me think:
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Det fik mig til at tænke:
08:21
Affairs in the digital age
are death by a thousand cuts.
are death by a thousand cuts.
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Affærer i den digitale tidsalder
er døden ved tusind knivstik.
er døden ved tusind knivstik.
08:27
But then we have another paradox
that we're dealing with these days.
that we're dealing with these days.
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Vi har også et andet paradoks
at slås med i vores tid.
at slås med i vores tid.
08:31
Because of this romantic ideal,
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På grund af disse romantiske idealer
08:33
we are relying on our partner's
fidelity with a unique fervor.
fidelity with a unique fervor.
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stoler vi loyalt på vor partners troskab.
08:38
But we also have never
been more inclined to stray,
been more inclined to stray,
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Men samtidig har vi aldrig været mere
tilbøjelige til at være løse på tråden,
tilbøjelige til at være løse på tråden,
08:42
and not because we have new desires today,
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ikke fordi vi har nye begær i vore dage,
08:45
but because we live in an era
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men fordi vi lever i en tid,
08:47
where we feel that we are
entitled to pursue our desires,
entitled to pursue our desires,
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hvor vi føler en ret til at
forfølge vores begær.
forfølge vores begær.
08:50
because this is the culture
where I deserve to be happy.
where I deserve to be happy.
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For dette er en kultur,
hvor jeg fortjener at være lykkelig.
hvor jeg fortjener at være lykkelig.
08:55
And if we used to divorce
because we were unhappy,
because we were unhappy,
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Hvis vi plejede at blive skilt,
fordi vi var ulykkelige,
fordi vi var ulykkelige,
08:59
today we divorce
because we could be happier.
because we could be happier.
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bliver vi i dag skilt, fordi vi
kunne blive lykkeligere.
kunne blive lykkeligere.
09:03
And if divorce carried all the shame,
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Hvis en skilsmisse engang var skamfuldt,
09:06
today, choosing to stay when you can leave
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så er dét at blive, hvis man kan gå,
09:10
is the new shame.
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vor tids nye skam
09:12
So Heather, she can't talk to her friends
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Det betyder, at Heather ikke kan
tale med sine venner om det.
tale med sine venner om det.
09:15
because she's afraid that they
will judge her for still loving Nick,
will judge her for still loving Nick,
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Hun er bange for, at de vil
dømme hende, fordi hun stadig elsker Nick.
dømme hende, fordi hun stadig elsker Nick.
09:18
and everywhere she turns,
she gets the same advice:
she gets the same advice:
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Alle hun taler med, giver det samme råd:
09:21
Leave him. Throw the dog on the curb.
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"Forlad ham. Smid hunden på gaden."
09:25
And if the situation were reversed,
Nick would be in the same situation.
Nick would be in the same situation.
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Hvis det var omvendt,
ville Nick være i samme situation.
ville Nick være i samme situation.
09:31
Staying is the new shame.
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At blive er den nye skam.
09:35
So if we can divorce,
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Så hvis vi kan blive skilt,
09:38
why do we still have affairs?
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hvorfor har vi så stadig affærer?
09:41
Now, the typical assumption
is that if someone cheats,
is that if someone cheats,
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Den typiske antagelse er,
at hvis den anden er utro,
at hvis den anden er utro,
09:46
either there's something wrong
in your relationship or wrong with you.
in your relationship or wrong with you.
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er der enten noget galt i
forholdet eller med en selv.
forholdet eller med en selv.
09:51
But millions of people
can't all be pathological.
can't all be pathological.
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Men millioner af mennesker
kan ikke være så ulogiske.
kan ikke være så ulogiske.
09:56
The logic goes like this: If you
have everything you need at home,
have everything you need at home,
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Logikken er sådan her:
Hvis vi har hvad vi behøver derhjemme,
Hvis vi har hvad vi behøver derhjemme,
10:00
then there is no need
to go looking elsewhere,
to go looking elsewhere,
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er der ingen grund til
at søge andre steder.
at søge andre steder.
10:03
assuming that there is such
a thing as a perfect marriage
a thing as a perfect marriage
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Vi tror, at der eksisterer
et perfekt ægteskab
et perfekt ægteskab
10:07
that will inoculate us against wanderlust.
160
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2851
som vil gøre os immune overfor utroskab.
10:11
But what if passion
has a finite shelf life?
has a finite shelf life?
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Men hvad nu hvis passion har
en begrænset holdbarhed?
en begrænset holdbarhed?
10:15
What if there are things
that even a good relationship
that even a good relationship
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Hvad nu, hvis der er ting,
som selv et godt forhold
som selv et godt forhold
10:19
can never provide?
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1405
aldrig kan give?
10:22
If even happy people cheat,
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3015
Når selv lykkelige mennesker er utro,
10:25
what is it about?
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hvad handler det så om?
10:28
The vast majority of people
that I actually work with
that I actually work with
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Størstedelen af de mennesker,
jeg arbejder med
jeg arbejder med
10:31
are not at all chronic philanderers.
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er ikke promiskuøse.
10:34
They are often people who are
deeply monogamous in their beliefs,
deeply monogamous in their beliefs,
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De tror ofte på monogami
10:38
and at least for their partner.
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især for deres partners vedkommende,
10:40
But they find themselves in a conflict
170
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2636
men de oplever en konflikt
10:43
between their values and their behavior.
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mellem deres værdier og deres handlinger.
10:47
They often are people who have
actually been faithful for decades,
actually been faithful for decades,
172
635572
4363
Ofte har de været trofaste i årtier,
10:51
but one day they cross a line
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2639
men en dag krydser de grænsen,
10:54
that they never thought they would cross,
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642574
2473
som de aldrig havde troet,
de ville krydse
de ville krydse
10:57
and at the risk of losing everything.
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2747
med risiko for at miste alt,
11:00
But for a glimmer of what?
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1905
for et glimt af... hvad?
11:03
Affairs are an act of betrayal,
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2640
Affærer er bedrag,
11:06
and they are also an expression
of longing and loss.
of longing and loss.
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og de er også udtryk
for længsler og tab.
for længsler og tab.
11:10
At the heart of an affair,
you will often find
you will often find
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658610
3918
I hjertet af en affære
vil man ofte finde en længsel
vil man ofte finde en længsel
11:14
a longing and a yearning
for an emotional connection,
for an emotional connection,
180
662528
4261
efter en følelsesmæssig forbindelse,
11:18
for novelty, for freedom,
for autonomy, for sexual intensity,
for autonomy, for sexual intensity,
181
666789
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efter fornyelse, frihed,
autonomi, seksuel intensitet,
autonomi, seksuel intensitet,
11:24
a wish to recapture
lost parts of ourselves
lost parts of ourselves
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3667
et ønske om at genfinde
forsvundne dele af os selv
forsvundne dele af os selv
11:28
or an attempt to bring back
vitality in the face of loss and tragedy.
vitality in the face of loss and tragedy.
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5314
eller et forsøg på at genskabe
vitaliteten midt i tab og tragedie.
vitaliteten midt i tab og tragedie.
11:34
I'm thinking about
another patient of mine, Priya,
another patient of mine, Priya,
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2917
En anden af mine patienter, Priya,
11:37
who is blissfully married,
185
685766
2616
er lykkeligt gift,
11:40
loves her husband,
186
688382
1465
elsker sin mand
11:41
and would never want to hurt the man.
187
689847
2383
og ville aldrig såre ham.
11:44
But she also tells me
188
692713
2118
Men hun fortæller også
11:46
that she's always done
what was expected of her:
what was expected of her:
189
694831
3174
at hun altid har gjort det,
der forventes af hende:
der forventes af hende:
11:50
good girl, good wife, good mother,
190
698005
3680
Artig pige, god hustru, god mor,
11:53
taking care of her immigrant parents.
191
701685
2992
tager sig af sine immigrant-forældre.
11:56
Priya, she fell for the arborist
who removed the tree from her yard
who removed the tree from her yard
192
704677
4512
Så faldt hun for manden, der fjernede
et væltet træ fra hendes have
et væltet træ fra hendes have
12:01
after Hurricane Sandy.
193
709214
1461
efter orkanen Sandy.
12:03
And with his truck and his tattoos,
he's quite the opposite of her.
he's quite the opposite of her.
194
711524
4563
Med sin lastbil og sine tatoveringer
er han det stik modsatte af hende.
er han det stik modsatte af hende.
12:09
But at 47, Priya's affair is about
the adolescence that she never had.
the adolescence that she never had.
195
717547
5222
Som 47-årig var hendes affære et udtryk
for den ungdom hun aldrig havde haft.
for den ungdom hun aldrig havde haft.
12:15
And her story highlights for me
that when we seek the gaze of another,
that when we seek the gaze of another,
196
723753
5277
Hendes historie pointerer for mig,
at når vi søger en andens blik,
at når vi søger en andens blik,
12:21
it isn't always our partner
that we are turning away from,
that we are turning away from,
197
729030
4718
er det ikke altid vor partner,
som vi vender os bort fra,
som vi vender os bort fra,
12:25
but the person that
we have ourselves become.
we have ourselves become.
198
733748
2837
men fra den person, vi selv er blevet.
12:29
And it isn't so much that we're
looking for another person,
looking for another person,
199
737728
3546
Det handler ikke om, at vi leder
efter en anden person,
efter en anden person,
12:33
as much as we are
looking for another self.
looking for another self.
200
741274
3542
men at vi leder efter en anden
version af os selv.
version af os selv.
12:39
Now, all over the world,
201
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1557
Over hele verden,
12:40
there is one word that people
who have affairs always tell me.
who have affairs always tell me.
202
748602
3856
er der én sætning som de,
der har affærer, altid siger.
der har affærer, altid siger.
12:45
They feel alive.
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753030
1881
De føler sig levende.
12:48
And they often will tell me
stories of recent losses --
stories of recent losses --
204
756046
4240
De beretter ofte om nylige tab,
12:52
of a parent who died,
205
760286
1855
om en forælder, der døde
12:54
and a friend that went too soon,
206
762141
2200
eller en ven der er gået for tidligt bort.
12:56
and bad news at the doctor.
207
764341
1800
om dårlige nyheder hos lægen.
12:59
Death and mortality often live
in the shadow of an affair,
in the shadow of an affair,
208
767482
4656
Død og dødelighed gemmer sig
ofte i skyggen af en affære.
ofte i skyggen af en affære.
13:04
because they raise these questions.
209
772138
2470
For de rejser spørgsmålene:
13:06
Is this it? Is there more?
210
774632
2904
Er det det? Er der mere?
13:09
Am I going on for another
25 years like this?
25 years like this?
211
777901
3056
Skal jeg fortsætte 25 år mere sådan her?
13:13
Will I ever feel that thing again?
212
781870
2492
Kommer jeg nogensinde til
at føle DET igen?
at føle DET igen?
13:18
And it has led me to think
that perhaps these questions
that perhaps these questions
213
786377
4411
Jeg tror, disse spørgsmål er drivkraften,
13:22
are the ones that propel
people to cross the line,
people to cross the line,
214
790788
3159
der får folk til at gå over grænsen,
13:25
and that some affairs are
an attempt to beat back deadness,
an attempt to beat back deadness,
215
793947
3992
og at nogle affærer er forsøg på
at gøre op med det triste liv,
at gøre op med det triste liv,
13:29
in an antidote to death.
216
797939
1796
en slags modgift mod døden.
13:33
And contrary to what you may think,
217
801999
2868
I modsætning til hvad I måske tror,
13:36
affairs are way less about sex,
and a lot more about desire:
and a lot more about desire:
218
804867
5036
handler affærer mindre om sex
og meget mere om begær.
og meget mere om begær.
13:41
desire for attention,
desire to feel special,
desire to feel special,
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809903
3489
Begæret efter opmærksomhed,
ønsket om at føle sig særlig
ønsket om at føle sig særlig
13:45
desire to feel important.
220
813392
1916
at føle sig betydningsfuld.
13:48
And the very structure of an affair,
221
816237
3010
I selve affærens natur er
13:51
the fact that you can
never have your lover,
never have your lover,
222
819247
2252
det faktum at du aldrig
kan få din elskede,
kan få din elskede,
13:53
keeps you wanting.
223
821503
1435
og det holder liv i længslen.
13:54
That in itself is a desire machine,
224
822938
3021
Det er i sig selv en begærsmaskine,
13:57
because the incompleteness, the ambiguity,
225
825959
2788
for ufuldstændigheden, tvetydigheden,
14:00
keeps you wanting
that which you can't have.
that which you can't have.
226
828747
2775
får dig til at ønske det, du ikke kan få.
14:05
Now some of you probably think
227
833641
1536
Nu tænker nogle af jer måske
14:07
that affairs don't happen
in open relationships,
in open relationships,
228
835177
3630
at affærer ikke forekommer i åbne forhold,
14:10
but they do.
229
838807
1191
men det gør de.
14:12
First of all, the conversation
about monogamy is not the same
about monogamy is not the same
230
840432
3130
Primært fordi samtalen om
monogami ikke er den samme
monogami ikke er den samme
14:15
as the conversation about infidelity.
231
843562
2181
som samtalen om utroskab,
14:18
But the fact is that it seems
that even when we have
that even when we have
232
846468
3491
Selvom vi har frihed til
14:21
the freedom to have other sexual partners,
233
849959
2673
at have andre seksuelle partnere,
14:24
we still seem to be lured
by the power of the forbidden,
by the power of the forbidden,
234
852632
4088
er vi stadig tiltrukket af det forbudte,
14:28
that if we do that which
we are not supposed to do,
we are not supposed to do,
235
856720
3487
for når vi gør det, vi ikke burde
14:32
then we feel like we are really
doing what we want to.
doing what we want to.
236
860207
2799
føler vi for alvor, at vi gør det, vi vil.
14:37
And I've also told
quite a few of my patients
quite a few of my patients
237
865331
3604
Jeg har også fortalt mange af mine patienter
14:40
that if they could bring
into their relationships
into their relationships
238
868935
4601
at hvis de kunne tilføre deres forhold
14:45
one tenth of the boldness,
the imagination and the verve
the imagination and the verve
239
873536
3631
blot en tiendedel af den
dristighed, fantasi og energi
dristighed, fantasi og energi
14:49
that they put into their affairs,
240
877167
1712
som de lægger i deres affærer,
14:50
they probably would never need to see me.
241
878879
2245
behøvede de næppe at se mig.
14:53
(Laughter)
242
881148
2000
(Latter)
14:56
So how do we heal from an affair?
243
884362
2285
Så hvordan kommer vi os over en affære?
15:00
Desire runs deep.
244
888428
1919
Begær stikker dybt.
15:02
Betrayal runs deep.
245
890371
1871
Svigt stikker dybt.
15:05
But it can be healed.
246
893266
1555
Men det kan helbredes.
15:07
And some affairs are death knells
247
895999
2921
Nogle affærer er blot dødsstødet
15:10
for relationships that were
already dying on the vine.
already dying on the vine.
248
898944
2738
til forhold, der allerede var døende.
15:14
But others will jolt us
into new possibilities.
into new possibilities.
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902753
3016
Mens andre vil kaste os ud i
nye muligheder.
nye muligheder.
15:17
The fact is, the majority of couples
250
905953
1983
Faktum er, at størstedelen af par,
15:19
who have experienced
affairs stay together.
affairs stay together.
251
907936
2214
der har affærer, bliver sammen.
15:22
But some of them will merely survive,
252
910766
2633
Nogle vil kun lige overleve,
15:25
and others will actually be able
to turn a crisis into an opportunity.
to turn a crisis into an opportunity.
253
913399
4704
mens andre vil kunne vende
krisen til en mulighed.
krisen til en mulighed.
15:30
They'll be able to turn this
into a generative experience.
into a generative experience.
254
918817
3643
De vil kunne vende det til
en livgivende erfaring.
en livgivende erfaring.
15:34
And I'm actually thinking even
more so for the deceived partner,
more so for the deceived partner,
255
922484
3714
Og endda mest for den svigtede partner
15:38
who will often say,
256
926222
1336
som ofte siger:
15:39
"You think I didn't want more?
257
927558
1807
"Troede du ikke, at jeg ville have mere?
15:41
But I'm not the one who did it."
258
929365
1842
Men det var ikke mig, der gjorde det."
15:43
But now that the affair is exposed,
259
931968
2142
Men nu, hvor affæren er afsløret,
15:46
they, too, get to claim more,
260
934110
2134
vil de også kræve mere
15:48
and they no longer have
to uphold the status quo
to uphold the status quo
261
936244
2642
og behøver ikke længere
at bevare status quo,
at bevare status quo,
15:50
that may not have been working
for them that well, either.
for them that well, either.
262
938886
2914
som måske heller ikke
har været god for dem.
har været god for dem.
15:56
I've noticed that a lot of couples,
263
944221
2889
Jeg har bemærket, at mange par
15:59
in the immediate aftermath of an affair,
264
947110
2141
umiddelbart efter en affære,
16:01
because of this new disorder
that may actually lead to a new order,
that may actually lead to a new order,
265
949251
4336
på grund af den nye uorden,
som faktisk kan føre til en ny orden,
som faktisk kan føre til en ny orden,
16:05
will have depths of conversations
with honesty and openness
with honesty and openness
266
953587
3582
vil føre dybe samtaler
med en ærlighed og åbenhed,
med en ærlighed og åbenhed,
16:09
that they haven't had in decades.
267
957169
1655
som de ikke har haft i årtier.
16:11
And, partners who were
sexually indifferent
sexually indifferent
268
959743
2937
Og partnere, der havde mistet
den seksuelle interesse i hinanden
den seksuelle interesse i hinanden
16:14
find themselves suddenly
so lustfully voracious,
so lustfully voracious,
269
962680
2599
bliver pludselig fyldt af grådigt begær,
16:17
they don't know where it's coming from.
270
965279
2535
som de ikke ved hvor kommer fra.
16:20
Something about the fear
of loss will rekindle desire,
of loss will rekindle desire,
271
968568
3953
Frygten for at miste vil genoplive begæret
16:24
and make way for an entirely
new kind of truth.
new kind of truth.
272
972521
3319
og bane vej for en helt ny sandhed.
16:30
So when an affair is exposed,
273
978133
2871
Så når en affære er afsløret,
16:33
what are some of the specific things
that couples can do?
that couples can do?
274
981004
3161
hvad kan et par så gøre konkret?
16:38
We know from trauma that healing begins
275
986133
4071
Vi ved fra andre traumer,
at helingen begynder,
at helingen begynder,
16:42
when the perpetrator
acknowledges their wrongdoing.
acknowledges their wrongdoing.
276
990204
3992
når krænkeren indrømmer deres fejl.
16:47
So for the partner who had the affair,
277
995339
3711
Så for partneren, der havde affæren,
16:51
for Nick,
278
999050
1532
for Nick,
16:52
one thing is to end the affair,
279
1000582
1805
er det én ting at afslutte affæren,
16:54
but the other is the essential,
important act of expressing
important act of expressing
280
1002387
4722
men den anden er den væsentlige og
vigtige handling at udtrykke
vigtige handling at udtrykke
16:59
guilt and remorse for hurting his wife.
281
1007109
3206
skyld og anger for at have såret sin kone.
17:02
But the truth is
282
1010889
1375
Men sandheden er
17:04
that I have noticed that quite a lot
of people who have affairs
of people who have affairs
283
1012264
3101
at jeg har bemærket at ret mange af dem,
der har været utro
der har været utro
17:07
may feel terribly guilty
for hurting their partner,
for hurting their partner,
284
1015365
3098
føler sig frygteligt skyldige
over at have såret deres partner,
over at have såret deres partner,
17:10
but they don't feel guilty
for the experience of the affair itself.
for the experience of the affair itself.
285
1018463
3213
men de føler sig ikke skyldige
over selve oplevelsen af affæren.
over selve oplevelsen af affæren.
17:14
And that distinction is important.
286
1022135
1841
Den forskel er vigtig.
17:17
And Nick, he needs to hold
vigil for the relationship.
vigil for the relationship.
287
1025230
3626
Nick skal stå vagt om forholdet.
17:21
He needs to become, for a while,
the protector of the boundaries.
the protector of the boundaries.
288
1029253
3073
Han skal opretholde dets grænser.
17:24
It's his responsibility to bring it up,
289
1032326
2623
Det er hans ansvar at tage emnet op,
17:26
because if he thinks about it,
290
1034949
1980
for husker han at gøre det,
17:28
he can relieve Heather from the obsession,
291
1036929
3010
kan han befri Heather
fra hendes tvangstanker,
fra hendes tvangstanker,
17:31
and from having to make sure
that the affair isn't forgotten,
that the affair isn't forgotten,
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og ansvaret for at sikre,
at affæren ikke glemmes,
at affæren ikke glemmes,
17:35
and that in itself
begins to restore trust.
begins to restore trust.
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og det i sig selv er starten på
at genskabe tilliden.
at genskabe tilliden.
17:39
But for Heather,
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Men for Heather,
17:41
or deceived partners,
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eller andre svigtede partnere,
17:43
it is essential to do things
that bring back a sense of self-worth,
that bring back a sense of self-worth,
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er det essentielt at gøre ting,
der genskaber en følelse af selvværd,
der genskaber en følelse af selvværd,
17:48
to surround oneself with love
and with friends and activities
and with friends and activities
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At omgive sig med kærlighed
og dyrke venner og aktiviteter,
og dyrke venner og aktiviteter,
17:52
that give back joy
and meaning and identity.
and meaning and identity.
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der giver glæde, mening og identitet.
17:55
But even more important,
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Men endnu vigtigere,
17:57
is to curb the curiosity
to mine for the sordid details --
to mine for the sordid details --
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er det at bremse sin nysgerrighed
efter de beskidte detaljer --
efter de beskidte detaljer --
18:02
Where were you? Where did you do it?
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Hvor var I? Hvor gjorde I det?
18:04
How often? Is she better
than me in bed? --
than me in bed? --
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Hvor ofte?
Er hun bedre i sengen end mig?
Er hun bedre i sengen end mig?
18:07
questions that only inflict more pain,
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Spørgsmål som blot påfører mere smerte
18:10
and keep you awake at night.
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og holder dig vågen om natten.
18:12
And instead, switch to what I call
the investigative questions,
the investigative questions,
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Brug i stedet hvad jeg kalder
undersøgende spørgsmål,
undersøgende spørgsmål,
18:17
the ones that mine
the meaning and the motives --
the meaning and the motives --
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dem der søger efter meningen og motivet
18:20
What did this affair mean for you?
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Hvad har den affære betydet for dig?
18:23
What were you able to express
or experience there
or experience there
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Hvad kunne du udtrykke eller opleve der,
18:25
that you could no longer do with me?
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som du ikke længere kunne med mig?
18:28
What was it like for you
when you came home?
when you came home?
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Hvordan var det for dig at komme hjem?
18:31
What is it about us that you value?
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Hvad er det ved os, som du sætter pris på?
18:34
Are you pleased this is over?
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Er du glad for, at det er overstået?
18:38
Every affair will redefine a relationship,
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Enhver affære vil ændre forholdet,
18:42
and every couple will determine
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og alle par skal finde frem til
18:45
what the legacy of the affair will be.
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hvad affærens eftermæle skal være.
18:49
But affairs are here to stay,
and they're not going away.
and they're not going away.
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Men affærer er kommet for at blive.
De forsvinder ikke.
De forsvinder ikke.
18:54
And the dilemmas of love and desire,
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Og kærlighedens og begærets dilemmaer
18:56
they don't yield just simple answers
of black and white and good and bad,
of black and white and good and bad,
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giver ikke simple svar som
sort og hvid, god og dårlig
sort og hvid, god og dårlig
19:02
and victim and perpetrator.
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1974
eller offer og krænker.
19:06
Betrayal in a relationship
comes in many forms.
comes in many forms.
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Bedrag kommer i mange former.
19:10
There are many ways
that we betray our partner:
that we betray our partner:
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Der er mange måder,
vi bedrager vores partner på,
vi bedrager vores partner på,
19:12
with contempt, with neglect,
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med foragt, med forsømmelse,
19:14
with indifference, with violence.
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med ligegyldighed eller vold.
19:17
Sexual betrayal is only
one way to hurt a partner.
one way to hurt a partner.
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Seksuelt bedrag er bare
én måde at såre en partner.
én måde at såre en partner.
19:21
In other words, the victim of an affair
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Med andre ord, offeret for en affære
19:24
is not always the victim of the marriage.
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er ikke altid offeret i ægteskabet.
19:29
Now, you've listened to me,
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Nu har I hørt på mig,
19:32
and I know what you're thinking:
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og jeg ved, hvad I tænker:
19:34
She has a French accent,
she must be pro-affair.
she must be pro-affair.
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3774
"Hun taler med fransk accent,
hun må være for utroskab"
hun må være for utroskab"
19:38
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
19:43
So, you're wrong.
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Men I tager fejl --
19:45
I am not French.
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jeg er ikke fransk.
19:47
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
19:50
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
19:53
And I'm not pro-affair.
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og jeg går ikke ind for affærer.
19:56
But because I think that good
can come out of an affair,
can come out of an affair,
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Men fordi jeg tænker, at der kan
komme noget godt ud af en affære,
komme noget godt ud af en affære,
20:01
I have often been asked
this very strange question:
this very strange question:
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er jeg ofte blevet stillet dette
mærkelige spørgsmål:
mærkelige spørgsmål:
20:04
Would I ever recommend it?
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"Vil du anbefale det?"
20:07
Now, I would no more
recommend you have an affair
recommend you have an affair
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Ser I, jeg ville ikke råde jer til
at have en affære,
at have en affære,
20:10
than I would recommend you have cancer,
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mere end jeg ville
anbefale jer at få kræft,
anbefale jer at få kræft,
20:13
and yet we know that people
who have been ill
who have been ill
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men vi ved dog at dem, der har været syge,
20:15
often talk about how their illness
has yielded them a new perspective.
has yielded them a new perspective.
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ofte får et nyt syn på livet.
20:20
The main question that I've been asked
since I arrived at this conference
since I arrived at this conference
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Mange har spurgt mig her på konferencen,
20:23
when I said I would talk
about infidelity is, for or against?
about infidelity is, for or against?
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da jeg sagde, jeg ville tale om utroskab:
"For eller imod?"
"For eller imod?"
20:28
I said, "Yes."
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Jeg svarede: "Ja!"
20:30
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
20:33
I look at affairs from a dual perspective:
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Jeg ser på affærer fra to sider:
20:37
hurt and betrayal on one side,
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3648
at blive såret og svigtet på den ene side,
20:41
growth and self-discovery on the other --
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vækst og selvudvikling på den anden.
20:44
what it did to you,
and what it meant for me.
and what it meant for me.
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Hvad det gjorde ved dig,
og hvad det betød for mig.
og hvad det betød for mig.
20:48
And so when a couple comes to me
in the aftermath of an affair
in the aftermath of an affair
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Så når et par kommer til mig
i kølvandet på en affære,
i kølvandet på en affære,
20:53
that has been revealed,
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1803
der er blevet afsløret,
20:55
I will often tell them this:
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fortæller jeg dem ofte:
20:57
Today in the West,
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I vore dage i den vestlige verden,
20:59
most of us are going to have
two or three relationships
two or three relationships
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vil de fleste af os have
to eller tre forhold,
to eller tre forhold,
21:04
or marriages,
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1699
eller ægteskaber,
21:06
and some of us are going
to do it with the same person.
to do it with the same person.
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og nogle af os har dem
med den samme person.
med den samme person.
21:10
Your first marriage is over.
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Jeres første ægteskab er slut.
21:13
Would you like to create
a second one together?
a second one together?
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Vil I skabe ægteskab nr. 2 sammen?
21:17
Thank you.
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Tak.
21:18
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Esther Perel - Relationship therapistPsychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life.
Why you should listen
For the first time in human history, couples aren’t having sex just to have kids; there’s room for sustained desire and long-term sexual relationships. But how? Perel, a licensed marriage and family therapist with a practice in New York, travels the world to help people answer this question. For her research she works across cultures and is fluent in nine languages. She coaches, consults and speaks regularly on erotic intelligence, trauma, sexual honesty and conflict resolution. She is the author of Mating in Captivity: Reconciling the Erotic and the Domestic. Her latest work focuses on infidelity: what it is, why happy people do it and how couples can recover from it. She aims to locate this very personal experience within a larger cultural context.
Esther Perel | Speaker | TED.com