Mission Blue II
Paul Greenberg: The four fish we're overeating -- and what to eat instead
Paul Greenberg: Četiri ribe koje previše jedemo –- i što trebamo jesti umjesto njih
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Način na koji lovimo popularne ribe poput lososa,tune i škampa prijeti uništenju naših oceana. Paul Greenberg istražuje veličinu i iracionalnost poslovanja morskom ribom i preporučuje nekoliko specifičnih načina pomoću kojih bismo to promjenili.
Paul Greenberg - Author
Paul Greenberg researches and writes about fish, aquaculture and the future of the ocean. Full bio
Paul Greenberg researches and writes about fish, aquaculture and the future of the ocean. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So when I was a kid ...
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Dakle, kada sam bio dijete...
00:15
this was my team.
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ovo je bio moj tim.
00:16
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
00:17
I stunk at sports.
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Bio sam loš u sportovima.
00:19
I didn't like to play them,
I didn't like to watch them.
I didn't like to watch them.
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Nisam ih volio igrati,
niti sam ih volio gledati.
niti sam ih volio gledati.
00:22
So this is what I did. I went fishing.
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Ovo je ono što sam ja radio.
Išao sam pecati.
Išao sam pecati.
00:25
And for all of my growing up
I fished on the shores of Connecticut,
I fished on the shores of Connecticut,
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Cijelo svoje djetinjstvo
pecao sam na obalama Connecticuta,
pecao sam na obalama Connecticuta,
00:28
and these are the creatures
that I saw on a regular basis.
that I saw on a regular basis.
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I ovo su bića
koja sam svakodnevno gledao.
koja sam svakodnevno gledao.
00:32
But after I grew up and went to college,
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Ali nakon što sam odrastao i
otišao na fakultet,
otišao na fakultet,
00:35
and I came home in the early 90's,
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i došao kući u ranim devedesetima,
00:37
this is what I found.
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pronašao sam ovo.
00:39
My team had shrunk.
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Moj tim se smanjio.
00:41
It was like literally having
your roster devastated.
your roster devastated.
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To je doslovno bilo kao da se
vaš tim uništio.
vaš tim uništio.
00:44
And as I sort of looked into that,
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A ja sam nekako na to gledao,
00:46
from a very personal
point of view as a fisherman,
point of view as a fisherman,
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sa vrlo osobnog stajališta, kao ribar.
00:48
I started to kind of figure out,
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Onda sam se počeo pitati,
00:50
well, what was the rest of the world
thinking about it?
thinking about it?
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što ostatak svijeta misli o tome?
00:53
First place I started to look
was fish markets.
was fish markets.
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Prvo gdje sam tražio
odgovor bile su ribarnice.
odgovor bile su ribarnice.
00:55
And when I went to fish markets,
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Kada sam otišao u ribarnice,
00:57
in spite of where I was --
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neovisno gdje sam bio --
00:58
whether I was in North Carolina,
or Paris, or London, or wherever --
or Paris, or London, or wherever --
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bila to Sjeverna Karolina,
ili Pariz, ili London, bilo gdje --
ili Pariz, ili London, bilo gdje --
01:02
I kept seeing this weirdly
repeating trope of four creatures,
repeating trope of four creatures,
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Neprestano sam viđao
četiri vrste čudnih bića,
četiri vrste čudnih bića,
01:07
again and again --
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opet i opet --
01:08
on the menus, on ice --
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na jelovnicima, na ledu --
01:10
shrimp, tuna, salmon and cod.
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škamp, tuna, losos i bakalar.
01:13
And I thought this was pretty strange,
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Pomislio sam kako je ovo čudno,
01:15
and as I looked at it, I was wondering,
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i dok sam gledao, pitao sam se,
01:17
did anyone else notice
this sort of shrinking of the market?
this sort of shrinking of the market?
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da li je još netko primjetio
ovoliko smanjenje ponude ?
ovoliko smanjenje ponude ?
01:21
Well, when I looked into it,
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No, kada sam bolje pogledao,
01:22
I realized that people
didn't look at it as their team.
didn't look at it as their team.
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Shvatio sam da ljudi
nisu gledali na njih kao na svoj tim.
nisu gledali na njih kao na svoj tim.
01:25
Ordinary people, the way they looked
at seafood was like this.
at seafood was like this.
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Način na koji su obični ljudi gledali
na morsku ribu bio je ovakav.
na morsku ribu bio je ovakav.
01:29
It's not an unusual human characteristic
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Nije neobična ljudska karakteristika
01:31
to reduce the natural world
down to very few elements.
down to very few elements.
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da smanji prirodu
na nekoliko elemenata.
na nekoliko elemenata.
01:35
We did it before, 10,000 years ago,
when we came out of our caves.
when we came out of our caves.
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Učinili smo to prije 10,000 godina,
kada smo izašli iz svojih špilja.
kada smo izašli iz svojih špilja.
01:38
If you look at fire pits
from 10,000 years ago,
from 10,000 years ago,
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Ako pogledate ognjišta
prije 10,000 godina,
prije 10,000 godina,
01:41
you'll see raccoons,
you'll see, you know, wolves,
you'll see, you know, wolves,
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vidjeti ćete rakune,
vidjeti ćete, znate, vukove,
vidjeti ćete, znate, vukove,
01:44
you'll see all kinds
of different creatures.
of different creatures.
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vidjeti ćete puno
različitih bića.
različitih bića.
01:46
But if you telescope to the age of --
you know, 2,000 years ago,
you know, 2,000 years ago,
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Ali ako se prebacimo u razdoblje
prije 2,000 godina
prije 2,000 godina
01:49
you'll see these four mammals:
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vidjeti ćete ova četiri sisavca:
01:51
pigs, cows, sheep and goats.
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svinje, krave, ovce i koze.
01:54
It's true of birds, too.
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Isto je i za ptice.
01:55
You look at the menus
in New York City restaurants
in New York City restaurants
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I pogledamo u jelovnike u
restoranima u New Yorku
restoranima u New Yorku
01:58
150 years ago, 200 years ago,
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Prije 150, 200 godina,
02:00
you'll see snipe, woodcock, grouse,
dozens of ducks, dozens of geese.
dozens of ducks, dozens of geese.
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vidjeti ćete šljuke, divlje kokoške,
desetke patki, desetke gusaka.
desetke patki, desetke gusaka.
02:05
But telescope ahead to the age
of modern animal husbandry,
of modern animal husbandry,
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Prebacimo li se u razdoblje
modernog stočarstva,
modernog stočarstva,
02:07
and you'll see four:
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vidjeti ćete ove četiri vrste:
02:09
turkeys, ducks, chicken and geese.
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Purice, patke, kokoši i guske.
02:12
So it makes sense
that we've headed in this direction.
that we've headed in this direction.
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Tako da ima smisla
Što smo krenuli u ovom smjeru.
Što smo krenuli u ovom smjeru.
02:15
But how have we headed in this direction?
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Ali kako smo uopće krenuli u tom smjeru?
02:17
Well ...
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Pa...
02:18
first it's a very, very new problem.
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prije svega, to je novi problem.
02:20
This is the way we've been fishing
the oceans over the last 50 years.
the oceans over the last 50 years.
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To je način na koji smo lovili
po oceanima zadnjih 50 godina.
po oceanima zadnjih 50 godina.
02:23
World War II was a tremendous incentive
to arm ourselves in a war against fish.
to arm ourselves in a war against fish.
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Drugi svjetski rat je bio veliki poticaj
da se naoružamo u ratu protiv riba.
da se naoružamo u ratu protiv riba.
02:29
All of the technology
that we perfected during World War II --
that we perfected during World War II --
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Sva tehnologija koju smo usavršili
tijekom Drugog svijetskog rata
tijekom Drugog svijetskog rata
02:32
sonar, lightweight polymers --
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sonari, lagani polimeri --
02:34
all these things
were redirected towards fish.
were redirected towards fish.
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sve te stvari su bile
usmjerene prema ribama.
usmjerene prema ribama.
02:36
And so you see this tremendous buildup
in fishing capacity,
in fishing capacity,
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Tako da vidite ovo veliko
pojačavanje kapaciteta ribolova,
pojačavanje kapaciteta ribolova,
02:39
quadrupling in the course of time,
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koje se četiri puta više povećalo
02:41
from the end of World War II
to the present time.
to the present time.
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od Drugog svjetskog rata do danas.
02:44
And right now that means
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Trenutno to znači
02:45
we're taking between 80 and 90 million
metric tons out of the sea every year.
metric tons out of the sea every year.
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da uzimamo između 80 u 90 milijuna
metričkih tona ribe iz mora svake godine.
metričkih tona ribe iz mora svake godine.
02:49
That's the equivalent
of the human weight of China
of the human weight of China
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To je jednako
ljudskoj težini Kine
ljudskoj težini Kine
02:52
taken out of the sea every year.
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uzetoj iz mora svake godine.
02:54
And it's no coincidence
that I use China as the example
that I use China as the example
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Nije slučajnost
da koristim Kinu kao primjer
da koristim Kinu kao primjer
02:57
because China is now
the largest fishing nation in the world.
the largest fishing nation in the world.
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Zato što je Kina prva zemlja u
svijetu što se tiče ribolova.
svijetu što se tiče ribolova.
03:00
Well, that's only half the story.
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No, to je tek pola priče.
03:01
The other half of the story
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Druga polovica priče
03:03
is this incredible boom
in fish farming and aquaculture,
in fish farming and aquaculture,
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je izvanredan uspon
u ribljem uzgoju i akvakulturi.
u ribljem uzgoju i akvakulturi.
03:07
which is now, only
in the last year or two,
in the last year or two,
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što je danas, samo
u zadnje godinu, dvije,
u zadnje godinu, dvije,
03:09
starting to exceed the amount
of wild fish that we produce.
of wild fish that we produce.
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Počelo povećavati količinu
divlje ribe koju proizvodimo.
divlje ribe koju proizvodimo.
03:12
So that if you add wild fish
and farmed fish together,
and farmed fish together,
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Pa tako ako dodate divlju
i uzgojenu ribu,
i uzgojenu ribu,
03:16
you get the equivalent
of two Chinas created from the ocean
of two Chinas created from the ocean
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dobijete ekvivalent
od dvije Kine stvorene iz oceana
od dvije Kine stvorene iz oceana
03:20
each and every year.
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svake godine.
03:21
And again, it's not a coincidence
that I use China as the example,
that I use China as the example,
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Ponavljam, nije slučajnost
da koristim Kinu kao primjer,
da koristim Kinu kao primjer,
03:24
because China, in addition
to being the biggest catcher of fish,
to being the biggest catcher of fish,
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zato što Kina, osim
što je broj jedan u ribolovu,
što je broj jedan u ribolovu,
03:27
is also the biggest farmer of fish.
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također je najveći uzgajivač ribe.
03:30
So let's look though at the four choices
we are making right now.
we are making right now.
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Pogledajmo sada četiri izbora riba.
03:35
The first one --
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Prva,
03:36
by far the most consumed seafood
in America and in much of the West,
in America and in much of the West,
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najviše konzumirana morska riba
u Americi i na zapadu
u Americi i na zapadu
03:40
is shrimp.
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je škamp.
03:41
Shrimp in the wild --
as a wild product --
as a wild product --
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Škamp u divljini
Kao proizvod divljine
Kao proizvod divljine
03:44
is a terrible product.
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je užasan proizvod.
03:45
5, 10, 15 pounds of wild fish
are regularly killed
are regularly killed
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2, 4, 6 kilograma divlje ribe
se redovito ubija
se redovito ubija
03:49
to bring one pound of shrimp
to the market.
to the market.
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da bi se dobio jedan kilogram
škampa na tržištu.
škampa na tržištu.
03:52
They're also incredibly fuel inefficient
to bring to the market.
to bring to the market.
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Također su iznimno energetski
neučinkoviti za prijenos na tržište.
neučinkoviti za prijenos na tržište.
03:55
In a recent study that was produced
out of Dalhousie University,
out of Dalhousie University,
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U zadnjem istraživanju
koje je provelo Dalhousie University,
koje je provelo Dalhousie University,
03:58
it was found that dragging for shrimp
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ustanovljeno je da je lov na škampe
04:00
is one of the most carbon-intensive
ways of fishing that you can find.
ways of fishing that you can find.
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jedan od najvećih visoko ugljičnih
načina koje se može loviti.
načina koje se može loviti.
04:04
So you can farm them,
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Tako da ih možete uzgajati,
04:06
and people do farm them,
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ljudi ih zaista uzgajaju,
04:07
and they farm them a lot
in this very area.
in this very area.
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i uzgajaju ih najviše
na tom području.
na tom području.
04:09
Problem is ...
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Problem je...
04:10
the place where you farm shrimp
is in these wild habitats --
is in these wild habitats --
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taj što su mjesta na kojima se uzgajaju
u divljem staništu,
u divljem staništu,
04:14
in mangrove forests.
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Uumangrovim šumama.
04:15
Now look at those lovely
roots coming down.
roots coming down.
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Pogledajte divno korijenje
koje se spušta.
koje se spušta.
04:17
Those are the things
that hold soil together,
that hold soil together,
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Zadržavaju zemlju,
04:19
protect coasts, create habitats
for all sorts of young fish, young shrimp,
for all sorts of young fish, young shrimp,
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štiti obale, stvara staništa
za sve vrste mladih riba, mladih škampa,
za sve vrste mladih riba, mladih škampa,
04:23
all sorts of things
that are important to this environment.
that are important to this environment.
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i sve ostale važne stvari
koje su bitne za okoliš.
koje su bitne za okoliš.
04:26
Well, this is what happens
to a lot of coastal mangrove forests.
to a lot of coastal mangrove forests.
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Dakle, ovo se događa
u većini obalnih mangrovnih šuma.
u većini obalnih mangrovnih šuma.
04:29
We've lost millions of acres
of coastal mangroves
of coastal mangroves
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Izgubili smo milijune hektara
obalnih mangrova
obalnih mangrova
04:31
over the last 30 or 40 years.
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u zadnjih 30 do 40 godina.
04:32
That rate of destruction has slowed,
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Ta stopa uništenja se usporila,
04:35
but we're still
in a major mangrove deficit.
in a major mangrove deficit.
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ali smo i dalje
u velikom deficitu mangrovnih šuma.
u velikom deficitu mangrovnih šuma.
04:38
The other thing that's going on here
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Još jedna stvar koja se ovdje događa
04:40
is a phenomenon that the filmmaker
Mark Benjamin called "Grinding Nemo."
Mark Benjamin called "Grinding Nemo."
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Je fenomen redatelja Marka Benjamina
zvan ''mljevenje Nema''.
zvan ''mljevenje Nema''.
04:44
This phenomenon is very, very relevant
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Ovaj fenomen je jako, jako relevantan
04:47
to anything that you've ever seen
on a tropical reef.
on a tropical reef.
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za sve što ste ikada vidjeli
na tropskom grebenu.
na tropskom grebenu.
04:49
Because what's going on right now,
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Jer ono što se sada događa je to
04:51
we have shrimp draggers
dragging for shrimp,
dragging for shrimp,
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da imamo lovce na škampe,
04:53
catching a huge amount of bycatch,
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koji love velike količine neželjenih riba
04:55
that bycatch in turn gets ground up
and turned into shrimp food.
and turned into shrimp food.
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Koje budu prerađene u hranu za škampe.
04:59
And sometimes, many of these vessels --
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I često ove brodice --
05:01
manned by slaves --
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kojima upravljaju robovi --
05:03
are catching these so-called "trash fish,"
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love ribu koja je ''smeće'',
05:05
fish that we would love to see on a reef,
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ribu koju bismo htjeli
vidjeti na grebenima,
vidjeti na grebenima,
05:07
grinding them up
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melju ih
05:09
and turning them into shrimp feed --
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i pretvaraju u hranu za škampe --
05:10
an ecosystem literally eating itself
and spitting out shrimp.
and spitting out shrimp.
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ekosustav koji jede sam sebe
i ispljune škampe.
i ispljune škampe.
05:15
The next most consumed seafood in America,
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Sljedeća najviše konzumirana
riba u Americi,
riba u Americi,
05:17
and also throughout the West,
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i također na zapadu,
05:19
is tuna.
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je tuna.
05:20
So tuna is this ultimate global fish.
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Tuna je univerzalna riba.
05:23
These huge management areas
have to be observed
have to be observed
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Velika područja moraju biti čuvana
05:26
in order for tuna to be well managed.
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kako bi se tuna dobro kontrolirala.
05:28
Our own management area,
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Naše kontrolno područje
05:30
called a Regional Fisheries
Management Organization,
Management Organization,
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zove se Regionalna upravna
organizacija ribarnica,
organizacija ribarnica,
05:32
is called ICCAT,
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tj. ICCAT -
05:33
the International Commission
for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas.
for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas.
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Međunarodna komisija za
očuvanje atlantskih tuna.
očuvanje atlantskih tuna.
05:37
The great naturalist
Carl Safina once called it,
Carl Safina once called it,
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Veliki prirodnjak Carl Safina
je to jednom nazvao
je to jednom nazvao
05:39
"The International Conspiracy
to Catch all the Tunas."
to Catch all the Tunas."
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''Internacionalna Urota
za Lov svih Tuna''.
za Lov svih Tuna''.
05:43
Of course we've seen
incredible improvement
incredible improvement
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Naravno, vidjeli smo veliki napredak
05:45
in ICCAT in the last few years,
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u ICCAT-u zadnjih par godina,
05:46
there is total room for improvement,
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ima puno mjesta za napredak,
05:48
but it remains to be said
that tuna is a global fish,
that tuna is a global fish,
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ali i dalje tvrde
da je tuna globalna riba,
da je tuna globalna riba,
05:51
and to manage it,
we have to manage the globe.
we have to manage the globe.
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i da bismo to promjenili
moramo promjeniti svijet.
moramo promjeniti svijet.
05:54
Well, we could also try to grow tuna
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Možemo pokušati i uzgajati tunu,
05:56
but tuna is a spectacularly bad
animal for aquaculture.
animal for aquaculture.
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ali tuna je spektakularno loša
životinja za akvakulturu.
životinja za akvakulturu.
05:59
Many people don't know this
but tuna are warm-blooded.
but tuna are warm-blooded.
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Većina ljudi ne zna
da je tuna toplokrvna.
da je tuna toplokrvna.
06:02
They can heat their bodies 20 degrees
above ambient temperature,
above ambient temperature,
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Mogu se zagrijati i do 20 stupnjeva
iznad temperature zraka,
iznad temperature zraka,
06:06
they can swim at over 40 miles an hour.
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mogu plivati i preko 40 km/h.
06:08
So that pretty much eliminates
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To poprilično eliminira
06:10
all the advantages
of farming a fish, right?
of farming a fish, right?
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sve prednosti uzgoja , zar ne?
06:12
A farmed fish is --
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A uzgojna riba je --
06:13
or a fish is cold-blooded,
it doesn't move too much.
it doesn't move too much.
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hladnkokrvna i ne kreće se previše.
06:16
That's a great thing for growing protein.
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To je sjajna stvar za uzgoj proteina.
06:18
But if you've got
this crazy, wild creature
this crazy, wild creature
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Ali ako imate ovo ludo, divlje biće
06:20
that swims at 40 miles an hour
and heats its blood --
and heats its blood --
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koje pliva 40 hm/h i zagrijava svoju krv --
06:23
not a great candidate for aquaculture.
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nije baš idealan kandidat za akvakulturu.
06:25
The next creature --
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Sljedeće biće --
06:27
most consumed seafood in America
and throughout the West --
and throughout the West --
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koje naviše konzumira Amerika i zapad --
06:30
is salmon.
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Je losos.
06:31
Now salmon got its plundering, too,
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Naravno i losos je bio ''pljačkan''
06:33
but it didn't really necessarily
happen through fishing.
happen through fishing.
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što se nije nužno događalo kroz ribolov.
06:36
This is my home state of Connecticut.
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Ovo je moja država Connecticut.
06:38
Connecticut used to be home
to a lot of wild salmon.
to a lot of wild salmon.
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Connecticut je nekada
bio dom divljeg lososa.
bio dom divljeg lososa.
06:41
But if you look
at this map of Connecticut,
at this map of Connecticut,
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No, ako pogledate
ovu mapu Connecticuta,
ovu mapu Connecticuta,
06:43
every dot on that map is a dam.
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svaka točka na mapi je nasip.
06:47
There are over 3,000 dams
in the state of Connecticut.
in the state of Connecticut.
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Postoji više od 3,000 nasipa
u Connecticutu.
u Connecticutu.
06:51
I often say this is why people
in Connecticut are so uptight --
in Connecticut are so uptight --
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Zato ja znam reći da
su ljudi u Connecticutu napeti --
su ljudi u Connecticutu napeti --
06:54
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:56
If somebody could just
unblock Connecticut's chi,
unblock Connecticut's chi,
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Kada bi bar netko mogao
odblokirati chi Connecticuta,
odblokirati chi Connecticuta,
07:00
I feel that we could have
an infinitely better world.
an infinitely better world.
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mislim da bi tada
svijet mogao biti bolji.
svijet mogao biti bolji.
07:02
But I made this particular comment
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Ali ovo sam komentirao
07:04
at a convention once
of national parks officers,
of national parks officers,
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i na okupljanju čuvara
nacionalnih parkova
nacionalnih parkova
07:06
and this guy from North Carolina
sidled up to me, he says,
sidled up to me, he says,
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gdje je jedan član iz
Sjeverne Karoline došao i rekao:
Sjeverne Karoline došao i rekao:
07:09
"You know, you oughtn't be so hard
on your Connecticut,
on your Connecticut,
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''Znaš, ne smiješ tako
govoriti o svom Connecticutu
govoriti o svom Connecticutu
07:13
cause we here in North Carolina,
we got 35,000 dams."
we got 35,000 dams."
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zato što mi ovdje u Sjevernoj Karolini
imamo 35,000 nasipa.''
imamo 35,000 nasipa.''
07:17
So it's a national epidemic,
it's an international epidemic.
it's an international epidemic.
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Tako da ovo nije državna
već internacionalna epidemija.
već internacionalna epidemija.
07:20
And there are dams everywhere,
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Nasipi su posvuda,
07:22
and these are precisely the things
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i baš oni će spriječiti
07:23
that stop wild salmon
from reaching their spawning grounds.
from reaching their spawning grounds.
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divljeg lososa da ne dosegne
mjesto gdje može izleći jaja.
mjesto gdje može izleći jaja.
07:26
So as a result,
we've turned to aquaculture,
we've turned to aquaculture,
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Kao rezultat toga
okrenuli smo se akvakulturi,
okrenuli smo se akvakulturi,
07:28
and salmon is one the most successful,
at least from a numbers point of view.
at least from a numbers point of view.
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što čini uzgoj lososa najuspješnijim,
s brojnih gledališta.
s brojnih gledališta.
07:32
When they first started farming salmon,
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Kada smo počeli uzgajati lososa
07:34
it could take as many
as six pounds of wild fish
as six pounds of wild fish
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trebalo nam je
oko tri kilograma divlje ribe
oko tri kilograma divlje ribe
07:37
to make a single pound of salmon.
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da napravimo pola kilograma lososa.
07:39
The industry has, to its credit,
greatly improved.
greatly improved.
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Industrija se, priznajmo im to,
vrlo poboljšala.
vrlo poboljšala.
07:42
They've gotten it below two to one,
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Smanjili su odnos na kilogram za pola,
07:44
although it's a little bit of a cheat
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iako je to pomalo i prijevara
07:46
because if you look at the way
aquaculture feed is produced,
aquaculture feed is produced,
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jer, ako pogledamo način
na koji se proizvode,
na koji se proizvode,
07:49
they're measuring pellets --
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vidimo da mjere palete na način:
07:50
pounds of pellets per pound of salmon.
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kilogram peleta po kilogramu lososa.
07:53
Those pellets are in turn reduced fish.
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Ti peleti smanjuju kvalitetu ribe.
07:55
So the actual -- what's called the FIFO,
the fish in and the fish out --
the fish in and the fish out --
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Koja riba ide unutra a koja van?
07:59
kind of hard to say.
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Teško je reći.
08:00
But in any case,
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Ali u svakom slučaju,
08:02
credit to the industry,
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pohvale idu industriji
08:03
it has lowered the amount of fish
per pound of salmon.
per pound of salmon.
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što je smanjila količinu ribe
po kilogramu lososa.
po kilogramu lososa.
08:05
Problem is we've also gone crazy
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Problem je i u tome što smo pretjerali
08:08
with the amount of salmon
that we're producing.
that we're producing.
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i u količini lososa kojeg proizvodimo.
08:10
Aquaculture is the fastest growing
food system on the planet.
food system on the planet.
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Akvakultura je najbrže rastući
prehrambeni sustav na planetu.
prehrambeni sustav na planetu.
08:13
It's growing at something
like seven percent per year.
like seven percent per year.
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Raste otprilike oko
7% godišnje.
7% godišnje.
08:16
And so even though
we're doing less per fish
we're doing less per fish
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Unatoč tome što koristimo manje riba
08:20
to bring it to the market,
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koje stavljamo na tržište,
08:22
we're still killing
a lot of these little fish.
a lot of these little fish.
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i dalje ubijamo
veliku količinu tih malih riba.
veliku količinu tih malih riba.
08:25
And it's not just fish
that we're feeding fish to,
that we're feeding fish to,
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Ne radi se samo o ribama
kojima hranimo druge ribe,
kojima hranimo druge ribe,
08:28
we're also feeding fish
to chickens and pigs.
to chickens and pigs.
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također ribama hranimo
i kokoši i svinje.
i kokoši i svinje.
08:31
So we've got chickens
and they're eating fish,
and they're eating fish,
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Tako da imamo kokoši
koje jedu ribe,
koje jedu ribe,
08:34
but weirdly, we also have fish
that are eating chickens.
that are eating chickens.
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i začuđujuće, ribe
koje jedu kokoši.
koje jedu kokoši.
08:38
Because the byproducts of chickens --
feathers, blood, bone --
feathers, blood, bone --
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Zato što se dijelovi kokoške, kao što
su perje, krv i kosti,
su perje, krv i kosti,
08:41
get ground up and fed to fish.
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samelju i time nahrane ribe.
08:44
So I often wonder,
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Često se pitam,
08:45
is there a fish that ate
a chicken that ate a fish?
a chicken that ate a fish?
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postoji li negdje riba koja je pojela
kokoš koja je pojela ribu?
kokoš koja je pojela ribu?
08:49
It's sort of a reworking
of the chicken and egg thing. Anyway --
of the chicken and egg thing. Anyway --
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Podsjeća na pitanje o kokoši i jajetu?
08:52
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:53
All together, though,
it results in a terrible mess.
it results in a terrible mess.
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Sve zajedno rezultira velikim neredom.
08:56
What you're talking about
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Ono o čemu pričamo
08:57
is something between 20 and 30 million
metric tons of wild creatures
metric tons of wild creatures
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jest to da je između 20 i 30 milijuna
tona divljih bića
tona divljih bića
09:03
that are taken from the ocean
and used and ground up.
and used and ground up.
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izvađeno iz oceana i iskorišteno.
09:06
That's the equivalent
of a third of a China,
of a third of a China,
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To je jednako jednoj trećini Kine,
09:08
or of an entire United States of humans
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ili cijelim Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama
09:10
that's taken out of the sea
each and every year.
each and every year.
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izvađenima iz mora iz godine u godinu.
09:14
The last of the four
is a kind of amorphous thing.
is a kind of amorphous thing.
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Zadnja od četiri je bezoblična riba.
09:16
It's what the industry calls "whitefish."
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Ono što u industriji zovu ''bijela riba''.
09:20
There are many fish that get cycled
into this whitefish thing
into this whitefish thing
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Postoji mnogo stvari koje se stavljaju
u ovu bijelu ribu,
u ovu bijelu ribu,
09:23
but the way to kind of tell
the story, I think,
the story, I think,
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a najbolji način za ispričati priču
je, mislim,
je, mislim,
09:25
is through that classic piece
of American culinary innovation,
of American culinary innovation,
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kroz klasičnu priču
Američke kulinarske inovacije,
Američke kulinarske inovacije,
09:28
the Filet-O-Fish sandwich.
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ribljeg sendviča.
09:29
So the Filet-O-Fish sandwich
actually started as halibut.
actually started as halibut.
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Riblji je sendvič zapravo
nastao uporabom iveraka.
nastao uporabom iveraka.
09:32
And it started because
a local franchise owner
a local franchise owner
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Počeo je zato što je
lokalni vlasnik McDonaldsa
lokalni vlasnik McDonaldsa
09:35
found that when he served
his McDonald's on Friday, nobody came.
his McDonald's on Friday, nobody came.
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zaključio da kada je posluživao svoj
jelovnik petkom, nitko nije došao.
jelovnik petkom, nitko nije došao.
09:40
Because it was a Catholic
community, they needed fish.
community, they needed fish.
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Bio je u katoličkoj sredini
gdje su jeli ribu petkom.
gdje su jeli ribu petkom.
09:43
So he went to Ray Kroc and he said,
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Otišao je do Ray Kroca i rekao,
09:45
"I'm going to bring you a fish sandwich,
going to be made out of halibut."
going to be made out of halibut."
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''Napraviti ću ti riblji sendvič
koji ću napraviti od iveraka.''
koji ću napraviti od iveraka.''
09:48
Ray Kroc said, "I don't think
it's going to work.
it's going to work.
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Ray Krock je rekao '' Ne vjerujem
da ćeš uspjeti.
da ćeš uspjeti.
09:51
I want to do a Hula Burger,
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Želim napraviti Hula burger
09:52
and there's going to be
a slice of pineapple on a bun.
a slice of pineapple on a bun.
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2524
koji će imati komad ananasa na vrhu.
09:54
But let's do this, let's have a bet.
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Ali može, hajde da se kladimo.
09:56
Whosever sandwich sells more,
that will be the winning sandwich."
that will be the winning sandwich."
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Čiji se sendvič bude bolje prodavao,
to će biti pobjednički sendvič.''
to će biti pobjednički sendvič.''
10:00
Well, it's kind of sad for the ocean
that the Hula Burger didn't win.
that the Hula Burger didn't win.
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Na veliku žalost oceana,
Hula burger nije pobijedio,
Hula burger nije pobijedio,
10:04
So he made his halibut sandwich.
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Uspio je napraviti svoj riblji sendvič.
10:06
Unfortunately though,
the sandwich came in at 30 cents.
the sandwich came in at 30 cents.
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Nažalost, sendvič je koštao 30 centi,
10:10
Ray wanted the sandwich
to come in at 25 cents,
to come in at 25 cents,
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a Ray je htio da košta 25 centi,
10:12
so he turned to Atlantic cod.
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Pa se okrenio atlantskom bakalaru.
10:14
We all know what happened to
Atlantic cod in New England.
Atlantic cod in New England.
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A svi znamo što se dogodilo
bakalaru u Novoj Engleskoj.
bakalaru u Novoj Engleskoj.
10:17
So now the Filet-O-Fish sandwich
is made out of Alaska pollock,
is made out of Alaska pollock,
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Tako da je danas riblji sendvič
napravljen od aljaške kolje,
napravljen od aljaške kolje,
10:20
it's the largest fin fish fishery
in the United States,
in the United States,
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koja je najbolja uzgojna riba u SAD-u,
10:23
2 to 3 billion pounds of fish
taken out of the sea every single year.
taken out of the sea every single year.
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2 do 3 milijardi kilograma te ribe
vadi se iz more svake godine.
vadi se iz more svake godine.
10:28
If we go through the pollock,
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Ako nestane kolje,
10:29
the next choice is probably
going to be tilapia.
going to be tilapia.
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sljedeći izbor će
vjerojatno biti tilapija.
vjerojatno biti tilapija.
10:32
Tilapia is one of those fish
nobody ever heard of 20 years ago.
nobody ever heard of 20 years ago.
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Tilapija je riba za koju nitko
nije čuo do prije 20 godina.
nije čuo do prije 20 godina.
10:35
It's actually a very efficient converter
of plant protein into animal protein,
of plant protein into animal protein,
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Ona je jako učinkovita u pretvorbi
biljnih proteina u životinjske,
biljnih proteina u životinjske,
10:39
and it's been a godsend
to the third world.
to the third world.
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bila je spas za treći svijet.
10:41
It's actually a tremendously
sustainable solution,
sustainable solution,
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To je zapravo održivo riješenje,
10:43
it goes from an egg
to an adult in nine months.
to an adult in nine months.
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treba devet mjeseci razvitka
do odraslog oblika.
do odraslog oblika.
10:46
The problem is that when you
look about the West,
look about the West,
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Problem je što, kada pogledamo zapad,
10:48
it doesn't do what the West
wants it to do.
wants it to do.
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2016
to nije ono što zapad želi.
10:50
It really doesn't have what's called
an oily fish profile.
an oily fish profile.
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Nema ono nešto što se zove
uljni riblji profil.
uljni riblji profil.
10:53
It doesn't have the EPA and DHA omega-3s
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Nema EPA i DHA omega-3 kiselina
10:55
that we all think are going
to make us live forever.
to make us live forever.
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za koje mislimo da
će nam podariti vječni život.
će nam podariti vječni život.
10:59
So what do we do?
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Što moramo napraviti?
11:00
I mean, first of all,
what about this poor fish, the clupeids?
what about this poor fish, the clupeids?
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Mislim, kao prvo, šta ćemo s
ovom jadnom ribom, srdeljkom ?
ovom jadnom ribom, srdeljkom ?
11:03
The fish that represent a huge part
of that 20 to 30 million metric tons.
of that 20 to 30 million metric tons.
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To je riba koja čini veliki dio
od tih 20,30 milijuna tona.
od tih 20,30 milijuna tona.
11:08
Well, one possibility
that a lot of conservationists have raised
that a lot of conservationists have raised
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Pojavilo se pitanje
11:11
is could we eat them?
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možemo li ih jesti?
11:13
Could we eat them directly
instead of feeding them to salmon?
instead of feeding them to salmon?
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Možemo li ih jesti direktno,
da njima ne hranimo prvo losose?
da njima ne hranimo prvo losose?
Ovo su argumenti.
11:16
There are arguments for it.
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11:17
They are tremendously fuel efficient
to bring to market,
to bring to market,
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Zahtjevaju puno energetske vrijednosti da
bi se stavile na tržište,
bi se stavile na tržište,
11:20
a fraction of the fuel cost
of say, shrimp,
of say, shrimp,
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dio te vrijednosti košta,
kao jedan škamp,
kao jedan škamp,
11:22
and at the very top
of the carbon efficiency scale.
of the carbon efficiency scale.
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i na samom je vrhu
što se tiče efikasnosti ugljikohidrata.
što se tiče efikasnosti ugljikohidrata.
11:25
They also are omega-3 rich,
a great source for EPA and DHA.
a great source for EPA and DHA.
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Također su bogate omega-3 kiselinama,
odličan izvor EPA i DHA.
odličan izvor EPA i DHA.
11:30
So that is a potential.
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To je potencijal.
11:31
And if we were to go down that route
what I would say is,
what I would say is,
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No ako ćemo već ići u tom smjeru,
11:35
instead of paying a few bucks a pound --
or a few bucks a ton, really --
or a few bucks a ton, really --
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umjesto da plaćamo nekoliko
dolara za kilogram, ili tonu,
dolara za kilogram, ili tonu,
11:39
and making it into aquafeed,
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i hranimo njima ribe,
11:41
could we halve the catch
and double the price for the fishermen
and double the price for the fishermen
265
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možemo li prepoloviti ulov
i udvostručiti cijenu za ribolovce
i udvostručiti cijenu za ribolovce
11:44
and make that our way
of treating these particular fish?
of treating these particular fish?
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I tako odlučivati o
sudbini tih riba?
sudbini tih riba?
11:49
Other possibility though,
which is much more interesting,
which is much more interesting,
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Druga mogućnost,koja je
puno zanimljivija,
puno zanimljivija,
11:51
is looking at bivalves,
particularly mussels.
particularly mussels.
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je da obratimo pažnju na školjkaše,
posebno dagnje.
posebno dagnje.
11:54
Now, mussels are very high in EPA and DHA,
they're similar to canned tuna.
they're similar to canned tuna.
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Dagnje sadrže veliku koncentraciju
EPA i DHA, slične su konzerviranoj tuni.
EPA i DHA, slične su konzerviranoj tuni.
11:59
They're also extremely fuel efficient.
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Imaju veliku energetsku vrijednost.
12:01
To bring a pound of mussels to market
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Stavljanje dagnji na tržište
12:03
is about a thirtieth of the carbon
as required to bring beef to market.
as required to bring beef to market.
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čini jednu trećinu ugljikohidrata
što je isto kao i kod govedine.
što je isto kao i kod govedine.
12:06
They require no forage fish,
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Ne zahtjevaju dohranu ribama
12:08
they actually get their omega-3s
by filtering the water of microalgae.
by filtering the water of microalgae.
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Dobiju svoje omega 3 kiseline
filtracijom mikroalgi u vodi.
filtracijom mikroalgi u vodi.
12:12
In fact, that's where omega-3s come from,
they don't come from fish.
they don't come from fish.
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Ustvari, tako i dobivamo omega
3 kiseline, ne iz ribe.
3 kiseline, ne iz ribe.
12:15
Microalgae make the omega-3s,
they're only bioconcentrated in fish.
they're only bioconcentrated in fish.
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Mikroalge proizvode omega 3 kiseline
koje se koncentriraju u ribama.
koje se koncentriraju u ribama.
12:19
Mussels and other bivalves
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Dagnje i ostali školjkaši
12:21
do tremendous amounts of water filtration.
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naveliko filtriraju vodu.
12:23
A single mussel can filter
dozens of gallons every single day.
dozens of gallons every single day.
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Jedna dagnja može filtrirati
na destke galona vode svakog dana.
na destke galona vode svakog dana.
12:26
And this is incredibly important
when we look at the world.
when we look at the world.
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To je jako bitno
kada pogledamo svijet.
kada pogledamo svijet.
12:29
Right now, nitrification,
overuse of phosphates in our waterways
overuse of phosphates in our waterways
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Trenutno, nitrati i prevelika
uporaba fosfata iz vode
uporaba fosfata iz vode
12:33
are causing tremendous algal blooms.
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uzrokuju preveliko cvjetanje algi.
12:35
Over 400 new dead zones
have been created in the last 20 years,
have been created in the last 20 years,
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Više od 400 mrtvih zona
stvoreno je u zadnjih 20 godina,
stvoreno je u zadnjih 20 godina,
12:39
tremendous sources of marine life death.
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veliki uzrok umiranja riba.
12:44
We also could look at not a fish at all.
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Također uopće ne moramo
ni gledati na ribu.
ni gledati na ribu.
12:46
We could look at a vegetable.
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Možemo pogledati i povrće.
12:47
We could look at seaweed, the kelps,
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Možemo pogledati morsku travu,
12:49
all these different varieties of things
that can be high in omega-3s,
that can be high in omega-3s,
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i sve ostale stvari koje mogu
biti pune omega 3 kiselina,
biti pune omega 3 kiselina,
12:53
can be high in proteins,
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pune proteina,
12:54
tremendously good things.
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i ostalih odličnih stvari.
12:56
They filter the water
just like mussels do.
just like mussels do.
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Filtriraju vodu poput dagnji.
12:58
And weirdly enough,
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Začuđujuće,
13:00
it turns out that you
can actually feed this to cows.
can actually feed this to cows.
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izgleda da ovime
možete hraniti i krave.
možete hraniti i krave.
13:02
Now, I'm not a big fan of cattle.
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Ja nisam veliki fan stoke,
13:04
But if you wanted to keep growing cattle
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Ali ako želite uzgajati stoku
13:06
in a time and place
where water resources are limited,
where water resources are limited,
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u vremenu i mjestu
gdje su izvori vode ograničeni,
gdje su izvori vode ograničeni,
13:09
you're growing seaweed in the water,
you don't have to water it --
you don't have to water it --
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možete uzgajati morsku travu u vodi,
čak je ne morate zaljevati,
čak je ne morate zaljevati,
13:12
major consideration.
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razmislite.
13:14
And the last fish is a question mark.
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Zadnja riba je pod velikim upitnikom.
13:17
We have the ability
to create aquacultured fish
to create aquacultured fish
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Imamo mogućnost stvoriti
uzgojnu ribu,
uzgojnu ribu,
13:21
that creates a net gain
of marine protein for us.
of marine protein for us.
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koja stvara neto dobit
morskog proteina za nas.
morskog proteina za nas.
13:24
This creature would have to be vegetarian,
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Ovo biće moralo bi biti vegeterijanac,
13:26
it would have to be fast growing,
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moralo bi brzo rasti,
13:28
it would have to be adaptable
to a changing climate
to a changing climate
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moralo bi se prilagoditi
na promjenjivu klimu
na promjenjivu klimu
13:31
and it would have to have
that oily fish profile,
that oily fish profile,
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i moralo bi imati
taj uljni riblji profil,
taj uljni riblji profil,
13:33
that EPA, DHA, omega-3
fatty acid profile that we're looking for.
fatty acid profile that we're looking for.
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EPA, DHA, omega 3 kiseline
koje tražimo.
koje tražimo.
13:37
This exists kind of on paper.
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To postoji samo na papiru.
13:40
I have been reporting
on these subjects for 15 years.
on these subjects for 15 years.
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Izvještavam o ovim temama
već 15 godina.
već 15 godina.
13:44
Every time I do a new story,
somebody tells me,
somebody tells me,
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Svaki put kada napravim novu
priču netko mi kaže
priču netko mi kaže
13:47
"We can do all that. We can do it.
We've figured it all out.
We've figured it all out.
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'' Možemo mi sve to napraviti.
Sve smo shvatili.
Sve smo shvatili.
13:49
We can produce a fish
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'' Možemo mi sve to napraviti.
Sve smo shvatili.
Sve smo shvatili.
13:51
that's a net gain of marine protein
and has omega-3s."
and has omega-3s."
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Koja ima neto dobit morskog proteina
I omega 3 kiselina.''
I omega 3 kiselina.''
13:53
Great.
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Divno.
13:54
It doesn't seem to be getting scaled up.
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Ne uspjevamo to dobiti.
13:57
It is time to scale this up.
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Vrijeme je,
13:58
If we do,
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Jer ako uspijemo,
14:00
30 million metric tons of seafood,
a third of the world catch,
a third of the world catch,
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30 milijuna tona morske ribe ,
trećina svijetskog ulova,
trećina svijetskog ulova,
14:03
stays in the water.
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će ostati pod vodom.
14:05
So I guess what I'm saying is
this is what we've been going with.
this is what we've been going with.
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Ono što pokušavam reći jest da je ovo
način na koji se nosimo sa tim.
način na koji se nosimo sa tim.
14:09
We tend to go with our appetites
rather than our minds.
rather than our minds.
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Uvijek naginjemo prema svom apetitu
prije nego pameti.
prije nego pameti.
14:12
But if we went with this,
or some configuration of it,
or some configuration of it,
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Ali ako se potrudimo,
14:15
we might have a little more of this.
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imati ćemo puno više.
14:19
Thank you.
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Hvala.
14:20
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Paul Greenberg - AuthorPaul Greenberg researches and writes about fish, aquaculture and the future of the ocean.
Why you should listen
Paul Greenberg is the author of the James Beard Award winning New York Times bestseller Four Fish and a regular contributor to The New York Times. He has also written for National Geographic Magazine, GQ, The Times (of London) and Vogue, and he lectures on seafood and the environment around the world. He is currently a fellow with The Safina Center and a Pew Fellow in Marine Conservation.
His most recent book, American Catch, the story of how we lost and how we might regain American local seafood, was published by The Penguin Press in June of 2014 and was featured on Fresh Air with Terry Gross.
Paul Greenberg | Speaker | TED.com