ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Eva Vertes - Neuroscience and cancer researcher
Eva Vertes is a microbiology prodigy. Her discovery, at age 17, of a compound that stops fruit-fly brain cells from dying was regarded as a step toward curing Alzheimer's. Now she aims to find better ways to treat -- and avoid -- cancer.

Why you should listen

Eva Vertes may not yet have the answers she needs to cure cancer, but she's asking some important -- and radical questions: If smoking can cause lung cancer, and drinking can cause liver cancer, is it possible that cancer is a direct result of injury? If so, could cancer be caused by the body's own repair system going awry?

She asks this and other breathtaking questions in her conference-closing 2005 talk. Her approach marks an important shift in scientific thinking, looking in brand-new places for cancer's cause -- and its cure. Her ultimate goal, which even she calls far-fetched, is to fight cancer with cancer.

More profile about the speaker
Eva Vertes | Speaker | TED.com
TED2005

Eva Vertes: Meet the future of cancer research

Eva Vertes 展望未來醫療

Filmed:
1,137,786 views

Eva Vertes(發表這篇演說時才19歲)討論她習醫的旅程及她致力於了解癌症與阿茲海默氏症致病根源背後的動力。
- Neuroscience and cancer researcher
Eva Vertes is a microbiology prodigy. Her discovery, at age 17, of a compound that stops fruit-fly brain cells from dying was regarded as a step toward curing Alzheimer's. Now she aims to find better ways to treat -- and avoid -- cancer. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:26
Thank you. It's really an honor榮譽 and a privilege特權 to be here
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謝謝你們!真的很榮幸能在這裡
00:30
spending開支 my last day as a teenager青少年.
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渡過我身為青少年的最後一天。
00:32
Today今天 I want to talk to you about the future未來, but
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今天我想與你們談論未來,
00:36
first I'm going to tell you a bit about the past過去.
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但是我要先跟你們分享一點我的過去。
00:39
My story故事 starts啟動 way before I was born天生.
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我的故事遠在我還未出生前就開始了。
00:43
My grandmother祖母 was on a train培養 to Auschwitz奧斯威辛, the death死亡 camp.
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我祖母曾身處在前往奥斯威辛死亡集中營的火車上,
00:47
And she was going along沿 the tracks軌道, and the tracks軌道 split分裂.
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她乘坐的火車沿著軌道前進,來到分岔處。
00:52
And somehow不知何故 -- we don't really know exactly究竟 the whole整個 story故事 -- but
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不知何故,我們並不知道整個事件的來龍去脈,
00:57
the train培養 took the wrong錯誤 track跟踪 and went to a work camp rather than the death死亡 camp.
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但結果是,那列火車沿著錯誤的鐵道抵達某勞動營,而非死亡營。
01:02
My grandmother祖母 survived倖存 and married已婚 my grandfather祖父.
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祖母活了下來並與祖父結了婚。
01:07
They were living活的 in Hungary匈牙利, and my mother母親 was born天生.
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他們那時住在匈牙利,在此時期我媽媽出生了。
01:10
And when my mother母親 was two years年份 old,
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當我媽兩歲大時,
01:12
the Hungarian匈牙利 revolution革命 was raging憤怒, and they decided決定 to escape逃逸 Hungary匈牙利.
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匈牙利發生了革命,於是他們決定逃離匈牙利。
01:17
They got on a boat, and yet然而 another另一個 divergence差異 --
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他們搭上了一艘船,又是一個命運的分岔點,
01:21
the boat was either going to Canada加拿大 or to Australia澳大利亞.
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那艘船的目的地可能是加拿大或是澳洲,
01:24
They got on and didn't know where they were going, and ended結束 up in Canada加拿大.
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他們雖上了船卻不知將前往何方,最後抵達了加拿大。
01:28
So, to make a long story故事 short, they came來了 to Canada加拿大.
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所以,長話短說,他們來到了加拿大。
01:31
My grandmother祖母 was a chemist化學家. She worked工作 at the Banting班廷 Institute研究所 in Toronto多倫多,
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祖母是化學家,任職於多倫多的班廷研究所,
01:35
and at 44 she died死亡 of stomach cancer癌症. I never met會見 my grandmother祖母,
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她在 44 歲時死於胃癌。我從來沒見過我祖母,
01:43
but I carry攜帶 on her name名稱 -- her exact精確 name名稱, Eva伊娃 VertesVERTES --
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但我繼承了她的名字,她的全名 - Eva Vertes
01:47
and I like to think I carry攜帶 on her scientific科學 passion, too.
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而且我認為我也繼承了她對科學的熱誠。
01:51
I found發現 this passion not far from here, actually其實, when I was nine years年份 old.
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事實上,我是在離這裡不遠的地方發現了這股熱誠,那年我九歲。
01:57
My family家庭 was on a road trip and we were in the Grand盛大 Canyon峽谷.
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我們家開車到處旅遊,那時正經過大峽谷。
02:02
And I had never been a reader讀者 when I was young年輕 --
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我從小就不愛看書,
02:05
my dad had tried試著 me with the Hardy哈迪 Boys男孩; I tried試著 Nancy南希 Drew德魯;
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我爸要我試著讀《哈迪男孩》,我也試過《神探俏佳人》,
02:08
I tried試著 all that -- and I just didn't like reading books圖書.
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全都試過,而我就是不喜歡看書。
02:12
And my mother母親 bought this book when we were at the Grand盛大 Canyon峽谷
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當我們在大峽谷時,我媽買了這本書,
02:16
called "The Hot Zone." It was all about the outbreak暴發 of the Ebola埃博拉病毒 virus病毒.
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書名是《伊波拉浩劫》,內容是關於伊波拉病毒的爆發。
02:19
And something about it just kind of drew德魯 me towards it.
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而某樣東西深深吸引著我。
02:22
There was this big sort分類 of bumpy-looking顛簸的前瞻性 virus病毒 on the cover,
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書本封面上有個看起來凹凸不平的病毒,
02:25
and I just wanted to read it. I picked採摘的 up that book,
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而我就是想要讀它。我拿起那本書,
02:29
and as we drove開車 from the edge邊緣 of the Grand盛大 Canyon峽谷
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當我們從大峽谷的邊緣行駛到 Big Sur
02:32
to Big Sur蘇爾, and to, actually其實, here where we are today今天, in Monterey蒙特雷,
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然後到這裡 - 我們現在所在的地方,蒙特雷。
02:35
I read that book, and from when I was reading that book,
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一路上我都在看那本書,當我打開那本書時,
02:40
I knew知道 that I wanted to have a life in medicine醫學.
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我就知道我這輩子要從事醫學研究。
02:43
I wanted to be like the explorers探險 I'd read about in the book,
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我想要像書中的探險家,
02:46
who went into the jungles叢林 of Africa非洲,
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深入非洲的叢林,
02:48
went into the research研究 labs實驗室 and just tried試著 to figure數字 out
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身處在實驗室中,就為了查明這致命的病毒為何?
02:50
what this deadly致命 virus病毒 was. So from that moment時刻 on, I read every一切 medical book
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從那一刻起,我開始閱讀任何我可取得的醫學書籍,
02:56
I could get my hands on, and I just loved喜愛 it so much.
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而我真的很愛這些書。
03:00
I was a passive被動 observer觀察者 of the medical world世界.
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我那時是被動地觀察著醫學世界,
03:04
It wasn't until直到 I entered進入 high school學校 that I thought,
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直到進入高中之後,我才開始有一個念頭,
03:08
"Maybe now, you know -- being存在 a big high school學校 kid孩子 --
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「或許現在,身為一個高中生,
03:11
I can maybe become成為 an active活性 part部分 of this big medical world世界."
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我或許能成為廣大醫學世界中主動的一員。」
03:16
I was 14, and I emailed電子郵件 professors教授 at the local本地 university大學
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那年我 14 歲,我寫了電子郵件給地區大學的教授們
03:21
to see if maybe I could go work in their lab實驗室. And hardly幾乎不 anyone任何人 responded回應.
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看看我能否到他們的實驗室工作。幾乎沒有任何人回應。
03:26
But I mean, why would they respond響應 to a 14-year-old-歲, anyway無論如何?
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但是話說回來,他們怎會想要回應一個才 14 歲的孩子?
03:30
And I got to go talk to one professor教授, Dr博士. Jacobs雅各布斯,
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最終我有機會與一位教授談話,Dr. Jacobs
03:34
who accepted公認 me into the lab實驗室.
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他讓我進他的實驗室工作。
03:37
At that time, I was really interested有興趣 in neuroscience神經科學
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那時,我對神經科學極感興趣,
03:40
and wanted to do a research研究 project項目 in neurology神經內科 --
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想要做一個與神經學相關的研究 -
03:43
specifically特別 looking at the effects效果 of heavy metals金屬 on the developing發展 nervous緊張 system系統.
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著重於觀察重金屬對發育中神經系統的影響。
03:48
So I started開始 that, and worked工作 in his lab實驗室 for a year,
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於是我開始在他的實驗室工作了一年,
03:53
and found發現 the results結果 that I guess猜測 you'd expect期望 to find
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然後得到的結果,我猜你們也會如此的預期,
03:57
when you feed飼料 fruit水果 flies蒼蠅 heavy metals金屬 -- that it really, really impaired受損 the nervous緊張 system系統.
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當你餵食果蠅重金屬 - 真的,真的會損害神經系統。
04:02
The spinal cord had breaks休息. The neurons神經元 were crossing路口 in every一切 which哪一個 way.
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脊髓斷裂。神經元彼此間以各種方式交叉著。
04:06
And from then I wanted to look not at impairment減值, but at prevention預防 of impairment減值.
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從那時開始,我不想再研究損傷,我希望研究損傷的預防方法。
04:11
So that's what led me to Alzheimer's老年癡呆症. I started開始 reading about Alzheimer's老年癡呆症
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這就是我為何開始研究阿滋海默氏症。我開始閱讀關於阿滋海默氏症的讀物,
04:17
and tried試著 to familiarize熟悉 myself with the research研究,
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然後試著讓自己熟悉此研究領域,
04:20
and at the same相同 time when I was in the --
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在那同時,當我
04:22
I was reading in the medical library圖書館 one day, and I read this article文章
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某天在醫學圖書館裡讀書,我讀到一篇文章,
04:25
about something called "purine嘌呤 derivatives衍生品."
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提到某種叫做嘌呤衍生物的東西,
04:27
And they seemed似乎 to have cell細胞 growth-promoting促生長 properties性能.
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他們似乎具有促進細胞生長的特性。
04:32
And being存在 naive幼稚 about the whole整個 field領域, I kind of thought,
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由於對這整個研究領域的天真無知,我這麼想:
04:35
"Oh, you have cell細胞 death死亡 in Alzheimer's老年癡呆症
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「喔~阿茲海默氏症是因為細胞死亡
04:37
which哪一個 is causing造成 the memory記憶 deficit赤字, and then you have this compound複合 --
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而造成記憶力受損,然而你有這種化合物 -
04:42
purine嘌呤 derivatives衍生品 -- that are promoting促進 cell細胞 growth發展."
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可以促進細胞生長的嘌呤衍生物。」
04:44
And so I thought, "Maybe if it can promote促進 cell細胞 growth發展,
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於是我就想到:「如果它可以促進細胞生長,
04:47
it can inhibit抑制 cell細胞 death死亡, too."
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或許它也可以抑制細胞死亡。」
04:49
And so that's the project項目 that I pursued追求的 for that year,
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於是那便成為我該年的研究計畫,
04:52
and it's continuing繼續 now as well,
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目前仍持續進行中。
04:55
and found發現 that a specific具體 purine嘌呤 derivative衍生物 called "guanidine"
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我發現有一種特定的嘌呤衍生物,稱作「胍」(guanidine)
05:00
had inhibited抑制 the cell細胞 growth發展 by approximately 60 percent百分.
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可以抑制細胞生長達到約 60%。
05:03
So I presented呈現 those results結果 at the International國際 Science科學 Fair公平,
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於是我在國際科學研討會上發表這些結果,
05:07
which哪一個 was just one of the most amazing驚人 experiences經驗 of my life.
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那是我人生中最棒的經驗之一。
05:11
And there I was awarded頒發 "Best最好 in the World世界 in Medicine醫學,"
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在那邊,我獲得了「最佳世界醫藥」獎,
05:14
which哪一個 allowed允許 me to get in, or at least最小 get a foot腳丫子 in the door of the big medical world世界.
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該獎項使我得以進入,或至少讓我得以一窺廣大的醫療世界。
05:21
And from then on, since以來 I was now in this huge巨大 exciting扣人心弦 world世界,
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從那時候開始,既然我現在已經身處在這廣大刺激的世界中,
05:27
I wanted to explore探索 it all. I wanted it all at once一旦, but knew知道 I couldn't不能 really get that.
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我想要探索每一個地方。我想要一次完成,但是我知道那是不可能的。
05:32
And I stumbled迷迷糊糊 across橫過 something called "cancer癌症 stem cells細胞."
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然後我碰巧遇到了某個稱作癌症幹細胞的東西。
05:34
And this is really what I want to talk to you about today今天 -- about cancer癌症.
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這才是我今天真正想要跟你們談談的東西 - 關於癌症。
05:38
At first when I heard聽說 of cancer癌症 stem cells細胞,
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一開始,當我聽到癌症幹細胞時,
05:42
I didn't really know how to put the two together一起. I'd heard聽說 of stem cells細胞,
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我並不是非常確定這兩個概念是如何湊在一起的。我聽說過幹細胞,
05:46
and I'd heard聽說 of them as the panacea萬能藥 of the future未來 --
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我聽過人們形容它是未來的萬靈丹 -
05:49
the therapy治療 of many許多 diseases疾病 to come in the future未來, perhaps也許.
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也許是很多未來疾病治療方法的依據。
05:52
But I'd heard聽說 of cancer癌症 as the most feared害怕 disease疾病 of our time,
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但同時,我也聽說過癌症是現世最令人聞之色變的疾病,
05:56
so how did the good and bad go together一起?
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所以,好的跟壞的東西是如何扯在一起的呢?
06:00
Last summer夏季 I worked工作 at Stanford斯坦福 University大學, doing some research研究 on cancer癌症 stem cells細胞.
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去年夏天,我在史丹佛大學工作,從事一些癌症幹細胞的研究。
06:06
And while I was doing this, I was reading the cancer癌症 literature文學,
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我一面做研究,一面閱讀癌症相關文獻,
06:09
trying to -- again -- familiarize熟悉 myself with this new medical field領域.
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嘗試著 - 又一次 - 讓自己熟悉這一個新的醫學領域。
06:14
And it seemed似乎 that tumors腫瘤 actually其實 begin開始 from a stem cell細胞.
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結果看起來腫瘤事實上是從幹細胞開始產生的。
06:22
This fascinated入迷 me. The more I read, the more I looked看著 at cancer癌症 differently不同
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這個發現令我著迷了。當我讀得愈多,我愈對癌症刮目相看
06:29
and almost幾乎 became成為 less fearful可怕 of it.
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而且幾乎愈來愈不怕它。
06:32
It seems似乎 that cancer癌症 is a direct直接 result結果 to injury.
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癌症似乎是組織或器官受傷的直接產物。
06:37
If you smoke抽煙, you damage損傷 your lung tissue組織, and then lung cancer癌症 arises出現.
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如果你抽菸,導致肺部組織損傷,就會產生肺癌。
06:42
If you drink, you damage損傷 your liver, and then liver cancer癌症 occurs發生.
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如果你喝酒,傷害你的肝臟,就會產生肝癌。
06:47
And it was really interesting有趣 -- there were articles用品 correlating關聯
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然後非常有趣的是 - 有些文章報導到這個關聯性
06:50
if you have a bone fracture斷裂, and then bone cancer癌症 arises出現.
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如果你骨折,就容易產生骨癌。
06:53
Because what stem cells細胞 are -- they're these
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因為幹細胞是 - 他們是這些
06:57
phenomenal非凡的 cells細胞 that really have the ability能力 to differentiate區分
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真正具有能分化成任何組織的能力,
07:01
into any type類型 of tissue組織.
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不可思議的細胞。
07:03
So, if the body身體 is sensing傳感 that you have damage損傷 to an organ器官
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所以,如果你的身體感覺到有某個器官損壞,
07:08
and then it's initiating啟動 cancer癌症, it's almost幾乎 as if this is a repair修理 response響應.
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就會引發癌症,幾乎如修復機制一般。
07:13
And the cancer癌症, the body身體 is saying the lung tissue組織 is damaged破損,
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癌症即是身體正說著,肺臟組織受傷了,
07:18
we need to repair修理 the lung. And cancer癌症 is originating始發 in the lung
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我們必需修復肺臟。因此癌症在肺臟內產生
07:22
trying to repair修理 -- because you have this excessive過多 proliferation增殖
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試圖修復器官。因為你有這些過度增生,
07:26
of these remarkable卓越 cells細胞 that really have the potential潛在 to become成為 lung tissue組織.
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並極有潛力成為肺臟組織的細胞。
07:31
But it's almost幾乎 as if the body身體 has originated起源 this ingenious巧妙 response響應,
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但這幾乎就好比是身體自發性的產生這巧妙的反應,
07:35
but can't quite相當 control控制 it.
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卻不能完全控制它。
07:37
It hasn't有沒有 yet然而 become成為 fine-tuned微調 enough足夠 to finish what has been initiated啟動.
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它並未受到良好調校,以完成一開始的目的。
07:42
So this really, really fascinated入迷 me.
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因此這真的,真的令我著迷。
07:45
And I really think that we can't think about cancer癌症 --
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而且我真的認為我們不應該用如此黑白分明的眼光,
07:50
let alone單獨 any disease疾病 -- in such這樣 black-and-white黑與白 terms條款.
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來看待癌症,或是其他任何的疾病。
07:53
If we eliminate消除 cancer癌症 the way we're trying to do now, with chemotherapy化療 and radiation輻射,
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如果我們以現行的方法,例如化療和放射性療法,來消滅癌症,
07:59
we're bombarding轟擊 the body身體 or the cancer癌症 with toxins毒素, or with radiation輻射, trying to kill it.
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我們以毒素或放射線轟炸身體或是癌症,試著殺死它。
08:04
It's almost幾乎 as if we're getting得到 back to this starting開始 point.
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這好像我們又回到原點了。
08:07
We're removing去除 the cancer癌症 cells細胞, but we're revealing揭示 the previous以前 damage損傷
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我們移除癌細胞,卻曝露了
08:12
that the body身體 has tried試著 to fix固定.
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身體試圖去修復的舊傷。
08:14
Shouldn't不能 we think about manipulation操作, rather than elimination消除?
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難道我們不應該思考如何去控制,而非殲滅癌細胞嗎?
08:19
If somehow不知何故 we can cause原因 these cells細胞 to differentiate區分 --
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如果我們能以某種方法引導這些細胞進行分化,
08:23
to become成為 bone tissue組織, lung tissue組織, liver tissue組織,
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變成骨骼細胞、肺臟細胞、肝臟細胞,
08:26
whatever隨你 that cancer癌症 has been put there to do --
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任何一種該癌症應該要修補的細胞種類,
08:29
it would be a repair修理 process處理. We'd星期三 end結束 up better than we were before cancer癌症.
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這就成為了一個修復過程。這樣我們就會比我們罹患癌症前更健康。
08:38
So, this really changed my view視圖 of looking at cancer癌症.
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因此,這真的改變了我對於癌症的看法。
08:42
And while I was reading all these articles用品 about cancer癌症,
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因此,當我閱讀這些癌症文獻的同時,
08:47
it seemed似乎 that the articles用品 -- a lot of them -- focused重點 on, you know,
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這些文章絕大多數似乎都專注在,你知道的,
08:49
the genetics遺傳學 of breast乳房 cancer癌症, and the genesis創世紀
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乳癌的遺傳基因、發生、
08:51
and the progression級數 of breast乳房 cancer癌症 --
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與進程。
08:53
tracking追踪 the cancer癌症 through通過 the body身體, tracing追踪 where it is, where it goes.
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追蹤體內的癌細胞,紀錄、描繪出它在哪裡,往哪邊移動。
08:59
But it struck來襲 me that I'd never heard聽說 of cancer癌症 of the heart,
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但令我吃驚的事,我從沒聽說過心臟癌,
09:04
or cancer癌症 of any skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 for that matter.
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或者例如任何骨骼肌的癌症。
09:07
And skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 constitutes構成 50 percent百分 of our body身體,
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但是骨骼肌佔了我們身體組成的一半,
09:11
or over 50 percent百分 of our body身體. And so at first I kind of thought,
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或一半以上。因此一開始我這樣想著:
09:16
"Well, maybe there's some obvious明顯 explanation說明
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「嗯,也許有某些顯而易見的原因,
09:18
why skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 doesn't get cancer癌症 -- at least最小 not that I know of."
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可以說明為什麼骨骼肌不會罹患癌症,只是我不知道而已。」
09:22
So, I looked看著 further進一步 into it, found發現 as many許多 articles用品 as I could,
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因此,我深入的去調查,閱讀我所能找到的任何文獻,
09:27
and it was amazing驚人 -- because it turned轉身 out that it was very rare罕見.
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結果同樣的令人吃驚,因為事實上骨骼肌癌症非常罕見。
09:31
Some articles用品 even went as far as to say that skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 tissue組織
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某些文獻甚至下了結論說骨骼肌組織
09:35
is resistant to cancer癌症, and furthermore此外, not only to cancer癌症,
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對癌症有抵抗力,甚至,不只是癌症本身,
09:40
but of metastases轉移 going to skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉.
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也能抵抗惡性腫瘤轉移。
09:44
And what metastases轉移 are is when the tumor --
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惡性腫瘤轉移就是當腫瘤,
09:47
when a piece -- breaks休息 off and travels旅行 through通過 the blood血液 stream
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一小塊腫瘤組織,從腫瘤上脫離並沿著血管
09:50
and goes to a different不同 organ器官. That's what a metastasis轉移 is.
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轉移到不同的器官,這就是惡性腫瘤轉移。
09:54
It's the part部分 of cancer癌症 that is the most dangerous危險.
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這是癌症中最危險的部份。
09:57
If cancer癌症 was localized本地化, we could likely容易 remove去掉 it,
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當癌症還只是區域性的時候,我們很有可能將之移除,
10:00
or somehow不知何故 -- you know, it's contained. It's very contained.
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或是,你知道,它是受控制的,非常受限的。
10:04
But once一旦 it starts啟動 moving移動 throughout始終 the body身體, that's when it becomes deadly致命.
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然而,一旦癌症開始在全身四處移動,它就變得非常致命。
10:07
So the fact事實 that not only did cancer癌症 not seem似乎 to originate起源 in skeletal骨骼 muscles肌肉,
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所以,癌症似乎不只不源於骨骼肌,
10:12
but cancer癌症 didn't seem似乎 to go to skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 --
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也不會轉移到骨骼肌這件事,說明了
10:15
there seemed似乎 to be something here.
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這裡面一定有文章。
10:17
So these articles用品 were saying, you know, "Skeletal骨骼 --
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所以這些文獻說,你知道的,「骨骼肌,
10:19
metastasis轉移 to skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 -- is very rare罕見."
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惡性腫瘤轉移到骨骼肌是非常罕見的。」
10:22
But it was left at that. No one seemed似乎 to be asking why.
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但是文章就這樣結束了。似乎沒有人好奇的問「為什麼」?
10:26
So I decided決定 to ask why. At first -- the first thing I did
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因此我決定來問這個問題。一開始,我所做的第一件事是
10:33
was I emailed電子郵件 some professors教授 who
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寄電子郵件給一些
10:35
specialized專門 in skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 physiology生理, and pretty漂亮 much said,
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專長在骨骼肌生理學的教授們,信件內容不外忽是,
10:38
"Hey, it seems似乎 like cancer癌症 doesn't really go to skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉.
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「嘿,看起來癌症不會轉移到骨骼肌上,
10:44
Is there a reason原因 for this?" And a lot of the replies回复 I got were that
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你知道為什麼嗎?」而我得到的回覆大多是說
10:48
muscle肌肉 is terminally終末 differentiated分化 tissue組織.
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肌肉是終端分化的組織。
10:52
Meaning含義 that you have muscle肌肉 cells細胞, but they're not dividing,
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意思是說,即使你有肌肉細胞,但因為這些細胞不會再分裂了,
10:55
so it doesn't seem似乎 like a good target目標 for cancer癌症 to hijack劫持.
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所以它似乎不像是癌症會劫持的好標的。
10:59
But then again, this fact事實 that the metastases轉移
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但是話說回來,
11:02
didn't go to skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 made製作 that seem似乎 unlikely不會.
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這個理由並不能解釋為什麼癌症不會轉移到骨骼肌上。
11:06
And furthermore此外, that nervous緊張 tissue組織 -- brain -- gets得到 cancer癌症,
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尤有甚者,神經組織,好比大腦,也會罹患癌症,
11:11
and brain cells細胞 are also terminally終末 differentiated分化.
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但是腦細胞也是終端分化的細胞。
11:14
So I decided決定 to ask why. And here's這裡的 some of, I guess猜測, my hypotheses假設
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因此我決定來問為什麼。這裡是一些,我推測的,我的假說
11:20
that I'll be starting開始 to investigate調查 this May可能 at the Sylvester西爾維斯特 Cancer癌症 Institute研究所 in Miami邁阿密.
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今年五月,我將要在邁阿密的希爾維斯特癌症研究中心展開我的研究。
11:29
And I guess猜測 I'll keep investigating調查 until直到 I get the answers答案.
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我猜我將會不斷的研究,直到我找到答案為止。
11:34
But I know that in science科學, once一旦 you get the answers答案,
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但是我知道在科學的世界裡,一旦你找到答案,
11:37
inevitably必將 you're going to have more questions問題.
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不可避免地,你將會有更多的問題。
11:39
So I guess猜測 you could say that I'll probably大概 be doing this for the rest休息 of my life.
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所以我猜你可以說,我大概會終其一生都在做研究。
11:44
Some of my hypotheses假設 are that
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我的假說包括,
11:47
when you first think about skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉,
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首先,當你想到骨骼肌,
11:50
there's a lot of blood血液 vessels船隻 going to skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉.
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骨骼肌內有一大堆的血管。
11:53
And the first thing that makes品牌 me think is that
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而這讓我聯想到的第一件事是
11:57
blood血液 vessels船隻 are like highways公路 for the tumor cells細胞.
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血管就如同腫瘤細胞的高速公路一般,
12:00
Tumor cells細胞 can travel旅行 through通過 the blood血液 vessels船隻.
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腫瘤細胞可以經由血管移動。
12:02
And you think, the more highways公路 there are in a tissue組織,
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然後你會想,組織內的高速公路愈多,
12:06
the more likely容易 it is to get cancer癌症 or to get metastases轉移.
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應該就愈有可能罹患癌症或是接受轉移。
12:10
So first of all I thought, you know, "Wouldn't豈不 it be favorable有利
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所以首先我想到,像是
12:13
to cancer癌症 getting得到 to skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉?" And as well,
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「這樣癌症應該更容易往骨骼肌轉移吧?」
12:16
cancer癌症 tumors腫瘤 require要求 a process處理 called angiogenesis血管生成,
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同時,癌症、腫瘤需要血管增生的過程,
12:21
which哪一個 is really, the tumor recruits新兵 the blood血液 vessels船隻 to itself本身
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這過程其實就是,腫瘤在其周遭新建血管,
12:25
to supply供應 itself本身 with nutrients營養成分 so it can grow增長.
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以供給它生長所需的養份。
12:28
Without沒有 angiogenesis血管生成, the tumor remains遺跡 the size尺寸 of a pinpoint查明 and it's not harmful有害.
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去除掉血管增生,腫瘤就會維持像針珠筆尖一樣的大小且無害。
12:35
So angiogenesis血管生成 is really a central中央 process處理 to the pathogenesis發病 of cancer癌症.
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所以血管增生真的是癌症致病機制中的核心過程。
12:41
And one article文章 that really stood站在 out to me
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有一篇文章,非常的與眾不同,引起了我的注意,
12:44
when I was just reading about this, trying to figure數字 out why cancer癌症 doesn't go to skeletal骨骼
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當我在閱讀這篇文章,嘗試找出癌症不會轉移到骨骼肌的原因時,
12:48
muscle肌肉, was that it had reported報導 16 percent百分 of micro-metastases微轉移
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我看到這篇文章指出,解剖發現,16% 的骨骼肌
12:55
to skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 upon autopsy屍檢.
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具有微型癌症轉移的跡象。
12:57
16 percent百分! Meaning含義 that there were these pinpoint查明 tumors腫瘤 in skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉,
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16% ! 意味著骨骼肌中的確可以發現這些鋼珠筆尖大小般的腫瘤,
13:02
but only .16 percent百分 of actual實際 metastases轉移 --
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但是真正惡性腫瘤轉移發生的機率只有 0.16%,
13:07
suggesting提示 that maybe skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 is able能夠 to control控制 the angiogenesis血管生成,
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意味著也許骨骼肌可以控制血管增生的過程,
13:13
is able能夠 to control控制 the tumors腫瘤 recruiting招聘 these blood血液 vessels船隻.
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可以控制腫瘤周遭的血管新生。
13:18
We use skeletal骨骼 muscles肌肉 so much. It's the one portion一部分 of our body身體 --
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我們無時無刻不在使用骨骼肌。它是我們身體的一部分,
13:23
our heart's心臟的 always beating跳動. We're always moving移動 our muscles肌肉.
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我的的心臟總在跳動,我們的肌肉也一直在運動,
13:26
Is it possible可能 that muscle肌肉 somehow不知何故 intuitively直觀地 knows知道
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是不是有可能,肌肉不知怎的,直覺性的知道
13:30
that it needs需求 this blood血液 supply供應? It needs需求 to be constantly經常 contracting承包,
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它需要大量的血液供給?它常常在收縮,
13:34
so therefore因此 it's almost幾乎 selfish自私. It's grabbing its blood血液 vessels船隻 for itself本身.
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所以它幾乎是極端自私的。它為了它自己霸佔住了所有血管。
13:37
Therefore因此, when a tumor comes into skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 tissue組織,
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因此,當腫瘤來到了骨骼肌組織中,
13:41
it can't get a blood血液 supply供應, and can't grow增長.
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它無法取得血液供給,不能生長。
13:44
So this suggests提示 that maybe if there is an anti-angiogenic抗血管生成 factor因子
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因次這暗示著,也許骨骼肌中有一種反血管新生的物質存在,
13:49
in skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 -- or perhaps也許 even more,
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尤有甚者,甚至有可能有
13:51
an angiogenic血管生成 routing路由 factor因子, so it can actually其實 direct直接 where the blood血液 vessels船隻 grow增長 --
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一種血管新生導引的物質,因此它可以引導血管該向何處生長。
13:56
this could be a potential潛在 future未來 therapy治療 for cancer癌症.
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這有潛力成為未來治療癌症的方法之一。
14:00
And another另一個 thing that's really interesting有趣 is that
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又一個非常令人感興趣的是
14:05
there's this whole整個 -- the way tumors腫瘤 move移動 throughout始終 the body身體,
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這整個,腫瘤在體內四處移動的方法,
14:09
it's a very complex複雜 system系統 -- and there's something called the chemokine趨化因子 network網絡.
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是一個非常複雜的系統,我們稱之為趨化因子網路。
14:13
And chemokines趨化因子 are essentially實質上 chemical化學 attractants引誘,
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趨化因子基本上就是化學性的吸引物,
14:17
and they're the stop and go signals信號 for cancer癌症.
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它們就是癌症停止與移動的訊號。
14:20
So a tumor expresses表達 chemokine趨化因子 receptors受體,
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腫瘤細胞的表面會表現許多驅化因子受器,
14:25
and another另一個 organ器官 -- a distant遙遠 organ器官 somewhere某處 in the body身體 --
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而其他的器官,在體內某處較遠距離的器官,
14:28
will have the corresponding相應 chemokines趨化因子,
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就會擁有相對應的驅化因子,
14:30
and the tumor will see these chemokines趨化因子 and migrate遷移 towards it.
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而腫瘤將會感應到這些趨化因子,而開始朝它移動。
14:34
Is it possible可能 that skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 doesn't express表現 this type類型 of molecules分子?
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有可能骨骼肌不表達這些分子嗎?
14:39
And the other really interesting有趣 thing is that
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最後一個非常有趣的是
14:42
when skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 -- there's been several一些 reports報告 that when skeletal骨骼
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當骨骼肌,許多報告指出
14:46
muscle肌肉 is injured受傷, that's what correlates相關因素 with metastases轉移 going to skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉.
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在骨骼肌受傷的同時,也伴隨惡性腫瘤轉移到骨骼肌內的現象。
14:53
And, furthermore此外, when skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 is injured受傷,
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而且不只這樣,當骨骼肌受傷時,
14:56
that's what causes原因 chemokines趨化因子 -- these signals信號 saying,
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也導致趨化因子,這些訊號發出:
15:00
"Cancer癌症, you can come to me," the "go signs跡象" for the tumors腫瘤 --
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「癌症,現在你可以過來了。」這種通行的訊號給腫瘤,
15:04
it causes原因 them to highly高度 express表現 these chemokines趨化因子.
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這導致它們開始大量的表達這些趨化因子。
15:08
So, there's so much interplay相互作用 here.
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所以,這邊實在是有太多會相互影響的事情了。
15:15
I mean, there are so many許多 possibilities可能性
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我是說,有這麼多種可能性
15:17
for why tumors腫瘤 don't go to skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉.
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可以解釋為什麼腫瘤不會轉移到骨骼肌。
15:20
But it seems似乎 like by investigating調查, by attacking進攻 cancer癌症,
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但是看起來藉由研究、攻擊癌症
15:24
by searching搜索 where cancer癌症 is not, there has got to be something --
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與尋找癌症所不存在的地方,一定有某些東西,
15:28
there's got to be something -- that's making製造 this tissue組織 resistant to tumors腫瘤.
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肯定有某些東西,使這組織對腫瘤具有抵抗力。
15:34
And can we utilize利用 -- can we take this property屬性,
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我們能夠利用,如果我們能夠利用這特性,
15:37
this compound複合, this receptor接收器, whatever隨你 it is that's controlling控制 these
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這種化合物,這種受器,任何控制這個
15:41
anti-tumor抗腫瘤 properties性能 and apply應用 it to cancer癌症 therapy治療 in general一般?
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抗腫瘤特性的東西,並將之應用在大眾化的癌症療法中嗎?
15:48
Now, one thing that kind of ties聯繫 the resistance抵抗性 of skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 to cancer癌症 --
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現在我們知道,在骨骼肌中,有個可能跟抗癌能力密切相關的物質,
15:56
to the cancer癌症 as a repair修理 response響應 gone走了 out of control控制 in the body身體 --
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能控制癌症—也就是體內失去控制的修補機制。
16:01
is that skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 has a factor因子 in it called "MyoDMyoD的."
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那是一個稱為 MyoD 的因子。
16:09
And what MyoDMyoD的 essentially實質上 does is, it causes原因 cells細胞 to differentiate區分
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MyoD 的基本作用是,它導致細胞分化成
16:14
into muscle肌肉 cells細胞. So this compound複合, MyoDMyoD的,
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骨骼細胞。所以 MyoD 這種化合物
16:19
has been tested測試 on a lot of different不同 cell細胞 types類型 and been shown顯示 to
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已經在很多不同種類的細胞上測試過,並已經被證明
16:23
actually其實 convert兌換 this variety品種 of cell細胞 types類型 into skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 cells細胞.
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真正能夠將這些各式不同種類的細胞,轉換為骨骼肌細胞。
16:27
So, is it possible可能 that the tumor cells細胞 are going to the skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 tissue組織,
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所以,是不是有可能,腫瘤細胞的確會進入骨骼肌組織,
16:33
but once一旦 in contact聯繫 inside the skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 tissue組織,
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但是一旦它接觸到骨骼肌組織的內部,
16:37
MyoDMyoD的 acts行為 upon these tumor cells細胞 and causes原因 them
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MoyD 便開始對這些腫瘤細胞作用,導致它們
16:42
to become成為 skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 cells細胞?
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轉變為骨骼肌細胞?
16:45
Maybe tumor cells細胞 are being存在 disguised偽裝 as skeletal骨骼 muscle肌肉 cells細胞,
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或許腫瘤細胞偽裝為骨骼肌細胞,
16:48
and this is why it seems似乎 as if it is so rare罕見.
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這也是為什麼它看起來這麼罕見。
16:53
It's not harmful有害; it has just repaired修復 the muscle肌肉.
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它對人體沒有傷害。它只是修復肌肉。
16:56
Muscle肌肉 is constantly經常 being存在 used -- constantly經常 being存在 damaged破損.
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肌肉無時無刻不被使用,也不斷的被損害。
16:59
If every一切 time we tore撕毀 a muscle肌肉
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如果每次我們肌肉撕裂傷
17:02
or every一切 time we stretched拉伸 a muscle肌肉 or moved移動 in a wrong錯誤 way,
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或是每次我們錯誤的運動或伸展肌肉,
17:05
cancer癌症 occurred發生 -- I mean, everybody每個人 would have cancer癌症 almost幾乎.
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就會導致癌症。我是說,這樣的話,幾乎所有人都會罹患癌症了。
17:12
And I hate討厭 to say that. But it seems似乎 as though雖然 muscle肌肉 cell細胞,
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雖然我討厭這麼說。但是看起來肌肉細胞,
17:16
possibly或者 because of all its use, has adapted適應
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可能因為它的功能,
17:19
faster更快 than other body身體 tissues組織 to respond響應 to injury,
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能比其他組織,更快適應身體對組織受損的反應,
17:22
to fine-tune微調 this repair修理 response響應 and actually其實 be able能夠 to finish the process處理
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並微調這修復過程,而確實完成
17:28
which哪一個 the body身體 wants to finish. I really believe that the human人的 body身體 is very,
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身體想要完成的過程。我真誠的相信人類的身體非常、非常的聰明,
17:33
very smart聰明, and we can't counteract抵消 something the body身體 is saying to do.
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我們無法對抗身體想要做的事。
17:39
It's different不同 when a bacteria comes into the body身體 --
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這跟細菌進入人體不同,
17:42
that's a foreign國外 object目的 -- we want that out.
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細菌是外來物,我們希望排除它。
17:46
But when the body身體 is actually其實 initiating啟動 a process處理
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但是當身體啟動某種過程,
17:48
and we're calling調用 it a disease疾病, it doesn't seem似乎 as though雖然 elimination消除 is
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我們卻把這種過程稱之為疾病,殲滅看起來並不是一個好的解決辦法。
17:52
the right solution. So even to go from there, it's possible可能, although雖然 far-fetched牽強,
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所以從那個角度來看,雖然仍舊很遙遠,但是
18:00
that in the future未來 we could almost幾乎 think of cancer癌症 being存在 used as a therapy治療.
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未來將癌症視為是一種療法來使用是有可能的。
18:07
If those diseases疾病 where tissues組織 are deteriorating惡化 --
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如果那些組織退化的疾病,
18:10
for example Alzheimer's老年癡呆症, where the brain, the brain cells細胞, die
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例如:阿茲海默氏症,其腦部,腦細胞面臨死亡
18:15
and we need to restore恢復 new brain cells細胞, new functional實用 brain cells細胞 --
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而我們需要重建新的腦細胞,新的腦細胞功能,
18:19
what if we could, in the future未來, use cancer癌症? A tumor --
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也許我們可以,在未來使用癌症來治療?
18:23
put it in the brain and cause原因 it to differentiate區分 into brain cells細胞?
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將一個腫瘤放進腦部,並引導它分化成為腦細胞?
18:28
That's a very far-fetched牽強 idea理念, but I really believe that it may可能 be possible可能.
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這是一個天馬行空的想法,但我真的相信是有可能的。
18:34
These cells細胞 are so versatile多才多藝, these cancer癌症 cells細胞 are so versatile多才多藝 --
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這些細胞這樣的變化多端,這些癌症細胞非常多變,
18:38
we just have to manipulate操作 them in the right way.
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我們只需要用正確來方法來操控它們。
18:41
And again, some of these may可能 be far-fetched牽強, but
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我再強調,這些想法有部份是天馬行空,
18:45
I figured想通 if there's anywhere隨地 to present當下 far-fetched牽強 ideas思路, it's here at TEDTED, so
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但是我想,如果有什麼場合可以公開發表天馬行空的點子,唯有在 TED,
18:50
thank you very much.
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非常謝謝大家。
18:52
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
Translated by Bill Hsiung
Reviewed by Ching-Yi Wu

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Eva Vertes - Neuroscience and cancer researcher
Eva Vertes is a microbiology prodigy. Her discovery, at age 17, of a compound that stops fruit-fly brain cells from dying was regarded as a step toward curing Alzheimer's. Now she aims to find better ways to treat -- and avoid -- cancer.

Why you should listen

Eva Vertes may not yet have the answers she needs to cure cancer, but she's asking some important -- and radical questions: If smoking can cause lung cancer, and drinking can cause liver cancer, is it possible that cancer is a direct result of injury? If so, could cancer be caused by the body's own repair system going awry?

She asks this and other breathtaking questions in her conference-closing 2005 talk. Her approach marks an important shift in scientific thinking, looking in brand-new places for cancer's cause -- and its cure. Her ultimate goal, which even she calls far-fetched, is to fight cancer with cancer.

More profile about the speaker
Eva Vertes | Speaker | TED.com