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Jim Al-Khalili: How quantum biology might explain life's biggest questions
Džim Al-Kalili (Jim Al-Khalili): Kako bi kvantna biologija mogla da objasni najveća životna pitanja?
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Kako crvendać zna da leti na jug? Odgovor može biti čudniji nego što ste mislili: možda je kvantna fizika uključena. Džim Al-Kalili zaokružuje veoma novi, veoma neobični svet kvantne biologije, gde ono što je Ajnštajn jednom nazvao „sablasna radnja na daljinu” pomaže pticama da nađu put, a kvantni efekti bi mogli da objasne korene samog života.
Jim Al-Khalili - Quantum physicist
Physicist Jim Al-Khalili and co-author Johnjoe McFadden, a biologist, explore the far edges of quantum biology in their book "Life on the Edge." Full bio
Physicist Jim Al-Khalili and co-author Johnjoe McFadden, a biologist, explore the far edges of quantum biology in their book "Life on the Edge." Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
I'd like to introduce you
to an emerging area of science,
to an emerging area of science,
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Želeo bih da vas upoznam
sa jednim poljem nauke u nastajanju,
sa jednim poljem nauke u nastajanju,
00:17
one that is still speculative
but hugely exciting,
but hugely exciting,
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poljem koje je još uvek
u domenu nagađanja,
u domenu nagađanja,
ali koje je veoma uzbudljivo
00:21
and certainly one
that's growing very rapidly.
that's growing very rapidly.
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i koje se svakako brzo razvija.
00:25
Quantum biology
asks a very simple question:
asks a very simple question:
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Kvantna biologija postavlja
veoma jednostavno pitanje:
veoma jednostavno pitanje:
da li kvantna mehanika -
00:29
Does quantum mechanics --
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00:30
that weird and wonderful
and powerful theory
and powerful theory
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ta čudna i prelepa i moćna teorija
00:34
of the subatomic world
of atoms and molecules
of atoms and molecules
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subatomskog sveta atoma i molekula
00:36
that underpins so much
of modern physics and chemistry --
of modern physics and chemistry --
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koja leži u osnovi
moderne fizike i hemije -
moderne fizike i hemije -
00:40
also play a role inside the living cell?
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takođe igra ulogu u živim ćelijama?
00:43
In other words: Are there processes,
mechanisms, phenomena
mechanisms, phenomena
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Drugim rečima, da li postoje
procesi, mehanizmi, pojave
procesi, mehanizmi, pojave
00:47
in living organisms
that can only be explained
that can only be explained
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u živim organizmima
koji jedino mogu biti objašnjeni
koji jedino mogu biti objašnjeni
00:51
with a helping hand
from quantum mechanics?
from quantum mechanics?
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uz pomoć kvantne mehanike?
00:55
Now, quantum biology isn't new;
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Sad, kvantna biologija nije nova;
00:57
it's been around since the early 1930s.
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postoji od ranih 1930-ih godina.
00:59
But it's only in the last decade or so
that careful experiments --
that careful experiments --
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Međutim, tek tokom poslednje decenije
pažljivi eksperimenti -
pažljivi eksperimenti -
01:03
in biochemistry labs,
using spectroscopy --
using spectroscopy --
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u biohemijskim laboratorijama
koristeći spektroskopiju -
koristeći spektroskopiju -
01:07
have shown very clear, firm evidence
that there are certain specific mechanisms
that there are certain specific mechanisms
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pokazali su veoma jasne, čvrste dokaze
da postoje određeni specifični mehanizmi
da postoje određeni specifični mehanizmi
01:14
that require quantum mechanics
to explain them.
to explain them.
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kojima je potrebna
kvantna mehanika da ih objasni.
kvantna mehanika da ih objasni.
01:17
Quantum biology brings together
quantum physicists, biochemists,
quantum physicists, biochemists,
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Kvantna biologija povezuje
kvantne fizičare, biohemičare
kvantne fizičare, biohemičare
01:21
molecular biologists --
it's a very interdisciplinary field.
it's a very interdisciplinary field.
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molekularne biologe -
to je veoma interdisciplinarno polje.
to je veoma interdisciplinarno polje.
01:24
I come from quantum physics,
so I'm a nuclear physicist.
so I'm a nuclear physicist.
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Ja se bavim kvantnom fizikom,
te sam nuklearni fizičar.
te sam nuklearni fizičar.
01:28
I've spent more than three decades
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Proveo sam više od tri decenije
01:30
trying to get my head
around quantum mechanics.
around quantum mechanics.
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pokušavajući da razumem kvantnu mehaniku.
01:33
One of the founders
of quantum mechanics, Niels Bohr,
of quantum mechanics, Niels Bohr,
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Jedan od osnivača kvantne mehanike,
Nils Bor, rekao je:
Nils Bor, rekao je:
01:36
said, If you're not astonished by it,
then you haven't understood it.
then you haven't understood it.
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„Ako nisi zadivljen njome,
onda je ne razumeš."
onda je ne razumeš."
01:40
So I sort of feel happy
that I'm still astonished by it.
that I'm still astonished by it.
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Tako sam na neki način srećan
što sam još uvek zadivljen njome.
što sam još uvek zadivljen njome.
01:43
That's a good thing.
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To je dobra stvar.
01:44
But it means I study the very
smallest structures in the universe --
smallest structures in the universe --
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To znači da proučavam
najmanje strukture u univerzumu -
najmanje strukture u univerzumu -
01:51
the building blocks of reality.
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ono od čega je sagrađena realnost.
01:53
If we think about the scale of size,
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Ako razmišljamo o lestvici, veličini,
01:57
start with an everyday object
like the tennis ball,
like the tennis ball,
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počnite od običnog predmeta
kao što je teniska loptica
kao što je teniska loptica
02:00
and just go down orders
of magnitude in size --
of magnitude in size --
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i samo krenite naniže
ka manjim veličinama -
ka manjim veličinama -
02:03
from the eye of a needle down to a cell,
down to a bacterium, down to an enzyme --
down to a bacterium, down to an enzyme --
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od iglenih ušiju do ćelije,
pa do bakterije, pa do enzima -
pa do bakterije, pa do enzima -
02:08
you eventually reach the nano-world.
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na kraju dolazite do nanosveta.
02:09
Now, nanotechnology may be
a term you've heard of.
a term you've heard of.
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Sad, možda ste čuli za nanotehnologiju.
02:12
A nanometer is a billionth of a meter.
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Nanometar je milijarditi deo metra.
02:16
My area is the atomic nucleus,
which is the tiny dot inside an atom.
which is the tiny dot inside an atom.
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Moja oblast je jezgro atoma,
koje je malecna tačka unutar atoma.
koje je malecna tačka unutar atoma.
02:20
It's even smaller in scale.
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Čak je manja po veličini.
02:22
This is the domain of quantum mechanics,
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Ovo je oblast kvantne mehanike,
02:24
and physicists and chemists
have had a long time
have had a long time
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a fizičari i hemičari su imali
dosta vremena
dosta vremena
02:27
to try and get used to it.
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da pokušaju da se naviknu na nju.
02:29
Biologists, on the other hand,
have got off lightly, in my view.
have got off lightly, in my view.
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Biolozi, na drugoj strani,
lako su se izvukli, po mom mišljenju.
lako su se izvukli, po mom mišljenju.
02:34
They are very happy with their
balls-and-sticks models of molecules.
balls-and-sticks models of molecules.
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Oni su veoma srećni sa svojim modelima
molekula od lopti i štapova.
molekula od lopti i štapova.
02:38
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
02:39
The balls are the atoms, the sticks
are the bonds between the atoms.
are the bonds between the atoms.
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Lopte su atomi,
a štapovi su veze između atoma.
a štapovi su veze između atoma.
02:42
And when they can't build them
physically in the lab,
physically in the lab,
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Kada ne mogu da ih naprave fizički
u svojim laboratorijama,
u svojim laboratorijama,
02:45
nowadays, they have
very powerful computers
very powerful computers
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sada imaju veoma moćne kompjutere
02:47
that will simulate a huge molecule.
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koji će simulirati veliki molekul.
02:49
This is a protein made up
of 100,000 atoms.
of 100,000 atoms.
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Ovo je protein sastavljen
od 100 000 atoma.
od 100 000 atoma.
02:54
It doesn't really require much in the way
of quantum mechanics to explain it.
of quantum mechanics to explain it.
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Zapravo i nije potrebna kvantna mehanika
da bi bio objašnjen.
da bi bio objašnjen.
02:59
Quantum mechanics
was developed in the 1920s.
was developed in the 1920s.
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Kvantna mehanika je razvijena
1920-ih godina.
1920-ih godina.
03:02
It is a set of beautiful and powerful
mathematical rules and ideas
mathematical rules and ideas
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Ona je skup prelepih i moćnih
matematičkih pravila i ideja
matematičkih pravila i ideja
03:09
that explain the world of the very small.
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koje objašnjavaju tako mali svet.
03:12
And it's a world that's very different
from our everyday world,
from our everyday world,
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I to je svet koji se veoma razlikuje
od našeg svakodnevnog sveta,
od našeg svakodnevnog sveta,
03:15
made up of trillions of atoms.
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sačinjenog od triliona atoma.
03:17
It's a world built
on probability and chance.
on probability and chance.
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To je svet izgrađen
na mogućnosti i slučajnosti.
na mogućnosti i slučajnosti.
03:21
It's a fuzzy world.
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To je nejasan svet.
03:23
It's a world of phantoms,
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To je svet fantoma
03:24
where particles can also behave
like spread-out waves.
like spread-out waves.
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u kome čestice mogu da se ponašaju
kao talas koji se širi.
kao talas koji se širi.
03:30
If we imagine quantum mechanics
or quantum physics, then,
or quantum physics, then,
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Ako zamislimo kvantnu mehaniku
ili kvantnu fiziku
ili kvantnu fiziku
03:33
as the fundamental
foundation of reality itself,
foundation of reality itself,
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kao fundamentalnu osnovu same realnosti,
03:38
then it's not surprising that we say
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onda nije iznenađujuće što kažemo
03:40
quantum physics underpins
organic chemistry.
organic chemistry.
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da je kvantna fizika
u osnovi organske hemije.
u osnovi organske hemije.
03:42
After all, it gives us
the rules that tell us
the rules that tell us
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Ipak nam ona pruža pravila
koja nam govore
koja nam govore
03:44
how the atoms fit together
to make organic molecules.
to make organic molecules.
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kako se atomi spajaju
da bi napravili molekul.
da bi napravili molekul.
03:47
Organic chemistry,
scaled up in complexity,
scaled up in complexity,
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Organska hemija, koja je složenija,
03:50
gives us molecular biology,
which of course leads to life itself.
which of course leads to life itself.
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daje nam molekularnu biologiju,
koja naravno dovodi do samog života.
koja naravno dovodi do samog života.
03:54
So in a way, it's sort of not surprising.
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Tako, na neki način nije iznenađujuća.
03:56
It's almost trivial.
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Skoro da je obična.
03:57
You say, "Well, of course life ultimately
must depend of quantum mechanics."
must depend of quantum mechanics."
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Kažete: „Pa, naravno, život na kraju
mora da zavisi od kvantne mehanike",
mora da zavisi od kvantne mehanike",
04:02
But so does everything else.
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ali mora i sve ostalo.
04:04
So does all inanimate matter,
made up of trillions of atoms.
made up of trillions of atoms.
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Mora i sva neživa materija
napravljena od triliona atoma.
napravljena od triliona atoma.
04:08
Ultimately, there's a quantum level
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Na kraju, postoji kvantni nivo
04:13
where we have to delve into
this weirdness.
this weirdness.
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gde moramo da uronimo u ovu čudnovatost,
04:15
But in everyday life,
we can forget about it.
we can forget about it.
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ali u svakodnevnom životu
možemo da zaboravimo na nju
možemo da zaboravimo na nju
04:18
Because once you put together
trillions of atoms,
trillions of atoms,
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zato što se,
kada jednom sastavite trilione atoma,
kada jednom sastavite trilione atoma,
04:21
that quantum weirdness
just dissolves away.
just dissolves away.
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ta kvantna čudnovatost prosto rasprši.
04:27
Quantum biology isn't about this.
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Kvantna biologija nije o tome.
04:29
Quantum biology isn't this obvious.
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Kvantna biologija nije toliko očigledna.
04:32
Of course quantum mechanics
underpins life at some molecular level.
underpins life at some molecular level.
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Naravno, kvantna mehanika je
u osnovi života na molekularnom nivou.
u osnovi života na molekularnom nivou.
04:37
Quantum biology is about looking
for the non-trivial --
for the non-trivial --
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Kvantna biologija bavi se
traženjem netrivijalnog -
traženjem netrivijalnog -
04:43
the counterintuitive ideas
in quantum mechanics --
in quantum mechanics --
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neočekivanih ideja u kvantnoj mehanici -
04:47
and to see if they do, indeed,
play an important role
play an important role
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i proverom da li one stvarno
igraju bitnu ulogu
igraju bitnu ulogu
04:50
in describing the processes of life.
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u opisivanju životnih procesa.
04:54
Here is my perfect example
of the counterintuitiveness
of the counterintuitiveness
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Ovo je moj savršeni primer
neočekivanosti kvantnog sveta.
neočekivanosti kvantnog sveta.
04:59
of the quantum world.
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05:01
This is the quantum skier.
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Ovo je kvantni skijaš.
Izgleda kao da je netaknut,
izgleda kao da je savršeno zdrav,
izgleda kao da je savršeno zdrav,
05:02
He seems to be intact,
he seems to be perfectly healthy,
he seems to be perfectly healthy,
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05:05
and yet, he seems to have gone around
both sides of that tree at the same time.
both sides of that tree at the same time.
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pa ipak, izgleda kao da je skijao
sa obe strane drveta istovremeno.
sa obe strane drveta istovremeno.
05:09
Well, if you saw tracks like that
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Pa, ako biste videli takve tragove
pretpostavili biste da se radi
o nekakvoj akrobaciji, naravno,
o nekakvoj akrobaciji, naravno,
05:11
you'd guess it was some
sort of stunt, of course.
sort of stunt, of course.
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05:13
But in the quantum world,
this happens all the time.
this happens all the time.
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ali u kvantnom svetu
ovo se stalno dešava.
ovo se stalno dešava.
05:16
Particles can multitask,
they can be in two places at once.
they can be in two places at once.
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Čestice mogu da multitaskuju,
mogu da budu na dva mesta istovremeno.
mogu da budu na dva mesta istovremeno.
05:19
They can do more than one thing
at the same time.
at the same time.
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One mogu da rade
više od jedne stvari istovremeno.
više od jedne stvari istovremeno.
05:22
Particles can behave
like spread-out waves.
like spread-out waves.
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Čestice mogu da se ponašaju
kao talasi koji se šire.
kao talasi koji se šire.
05:25
It's almost like magic.
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To je skoro kao magija.
05:27
Physicists and chemists have had
nearly a century
nearly a century
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Skoro vek fizičari i hemičari
05:30
of trying to get used to this weirdness.
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pokušavali su da se naviknu
na ovu čudnovatost.
na ovu čudnovatost.
05:33
I don't blame the biologists
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Ne krivim biologe
05:34
for not having to or wanting
to learn quantum mechanics.
to learn quantum mechanics.
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što nisu morali ili želeli
da nauče kvantnu mehaniku.
da nauče kvantnu mehaniku.
05:37
You see, this weirdness is very delicate;
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Vidite, ova čudnovatost
veoma je delikatna,
veoma je delikatna,
a mi, fizičari, radimo veoma naporno
da bismo je održali
da bismo je održali
05:40
and we physicists work very hard
to maintain it in our labs.
to maintain it in our labs.
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u svojim laboratorijama.
05:45
We cool our system down
to near absolute zero,
to near absolute zero,
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Hladimo naš sistem
skoro do apsolutne nule,
skoro do apsolutne nule,
05:49
we carry out our experiments in vacuums,
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vršimo eksperimente u vakuumima
05:51
we try and isolate it
from any external disturbance.
from any external disturbance.
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i pokušavamo da je izolujemo
od bilo kakvih spoljašnjih smetnji.
od bilo kakvih spoljašnjih smetnji.
05:55
That's very different from the warm,
messy, noisy environment of a living cell.
messy, noisy environment of a living cell.
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To se veoma razlikuje od toplog,
zbrkanog, bučnog ambijenta žive ćelije.
zbrkanog, bučnog ambijenta žive ćelije.
06:01
Biology itself, if you think of
molecular biology,
molecular biology,
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Biologija sama po sebi,
ako mislite na molekularnu biologiju,
ako mislite na molekularnu biologiju,
06:04
seems to have done very well
in describing all the processes of life
in describing all the processes of life
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čini se da je dosta dobro opisala
sve životne procese
sve životne procese
06:08
in terms of chemistry --
chemical reactions.
chemical reactions.
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u kontekstu hemije - hemijskih reakcija
06:10
And these are reductionist,
deterministic chemical reactions,
deterministic chemical reactions,
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i ovu su redukcionističke,
determinističke hemijske reakcije,
determinističke hemijske reakcije,
06:15
showing that, essentially, life is made
of the same stuff as everything else,
of the same stuff as everything else,
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koje pokazuju da je u suštini život
sačinjen od istih stvari kao i sve ostalo
sačinjen od istih stvari kao i sve ostalo
06:20
and if we can forget about quantum
mechanics in the macro world,
mechanics in the macro world,
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i ako možemo da zaboravimo
na kvantnu mehaniku u makrosvetu,
na kvantnu mehaniku u makrosvetu,
06:23
then we should be able to forget
about it in biology, as well.
about it in biology, as well.
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onda bi trebalo da možemo
da zaboravimo na nju u biologiji takođe.
da zaboravimo na nju u biologiji takođe.
06:27
Well, one man begged
to differ with this idea.
to differ with this idea.
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Pa, jedan čovek se nije slagao
sa ovom idejom.
sa ovom idejom.
06:32
Erwin Schrödinger,
of Schrödinger's Cat fame,
of Schrödinger's Cat fame,
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Ervin Šredinger,
iz poznate Šredingerove mačke,
iz poznate Šredingerove mačke,
06:35
was an Austrian physicist.
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bio je austrijski fizičar.
06:36
He was one of the founders
of quantum mechanics in the 1920s.
of quantum mechanics in the 1920s.
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Bio je jedan od osnivača
kvantne mehanike 1920-ih.
kvantne mehanike 1920-ih.
06:40
In 1944, he wrote a book
called "What is Life?"
called "What is Life?"
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Godine 1944. napisao je knjigu
„Šta je život?”.
„Šta je život?”.
06:43
It was tremendously influential.
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Bila je neverovatno uticajna.
06:45
It influenced Francis Crick
and James Watson,
and James Watson,
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Uticala je na Fransisa Krika
i Džejmsa Votsona,
i Džejmsa Votsona,
koji su otkrili
dvostruko spiralnu strukturu DNK.
dvostruko spiralnu strukturu DNK.
06:48
the discoverers of the double-helix
structure of DNA.
structure of DNA.
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06:51
To paraphrase a description
in the book, he says:
in the book, he says:
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Da parafraziram opis u knjizi,
on kaže da na molekularnom nivou,
živi organizmi imaju određeni red,
živi organizmi imaju određeni red,
06:55
At the molecular level,
living organisms have a certain order,
living organisms have a certain order,
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07:00
a structure to them that's very different
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strukturu koja je veoma različita
07:04
from the random thermodynamic jostling
of atoms and molecules
of atoms and molecules
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od nasumičnog termodinamičnog guranja
između atoma i molekula
između atoma i molekula
07:08
in inanimate matter
of the same complexity.
of the same complexity.
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u neživoj materiji iste složenosti.
07:13
In fact, living matter seems to behave
in this order, in a structure,
in this order, in a structure,
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Zapravo, čini se da se živa materija
ponaša u ovom redu, strukturi,
ponaša u ovom redu, strukturi,
07:18
just like inanimate matter
cooled down to near absolute zero,
cooled down to near absolute zero,
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kao neživa materija koja je ohlađena
do skoro apsolutne nule,
do skoro apsolutne nule,
07:22
where quantum effects
play a very important role.
play a very important role.
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gde kvantni efekti
igraju veoma bitnu ulogu.
igraju veoma bitnu ulogu.
07:26
There's something special
about the structure -- the order --
about the structure -- the order --
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Postoji nešto posebno
u vezi sa ovom strukturom - redom -
u vezi sa ovom strukturom - redom -
07:30
inside a living cell.
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u živoj ćeliji,
07:32
So, Schrödinger speculated that maybe
quantum mechanics plays a role in life.
quantum mechanics plays a role in life.
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te je Šredinger spekulisao da možda
kvantna mehanika igra neku ulogu u životu.
kvantna mehanika igra neku ulogu u životu.
07:38
It's a very speculative,
far-reaching idea,
far-reaching idea,
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To je veoma spekulativna, raširena ideja
07:41
and it didn't really go very far.
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i nije zapravo daleko odmakla.
Međutim, kao što sam pomenuo na početku,
07:45
But as I mentioned at the start,
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07:47
in the last 10 years, there have been
experiments emerging,
experiments emerging,
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u poslednjih 10 godina
pojavljuju se eksperimenti
pojavljuju se eksperimenti
koji pokazuju
da određene pojave u biologiji
da određene pojave u biologiji
07:49
showing where some of these
certain phenomena in biology
certain phenomena in biology
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07:53
do seem to require quantum mechanics.
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izgleda zahtevaju kvantnu mehaniku.
07:55
I want to share with you
just a few of the exciting ones.
just a few of the exciting ones.
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Želim da podelim sa vama
samo nekoliko uzbudljivih.
samo nekoliko uzbudljivih.
08:00
This is one of the best-known
phenomena in the quantum world,
phenomena in the quantum world,
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Ovo je jedna od najpoznatijih pojava
u kvantnom svetu,
u kvantnom svetu,
08:03
quantum tunneling.
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kvantno tunelovanje.
08:05
The box on the left shows
the wavelike, spread-out distribution
the wavelike, spread-out distribution
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Kutija levo pokazuje
talasastu, šireću distribuciju
talasastu, šireću distribuciju
08:10
of a quantum entity --
a particle, like an electron,
a particle, like an electron,
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kvantnog entiteta -
čestice poput elektrona,
čestice poput elektrona,
08:12
which is not a little ball
bouncing off a wall.
bouncing off a wall.
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koji nije loptica koja odskače od zida.
08:16
It's a wave that has a certain probability
of being able to permeate
of being able to permeate
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To je talas za koji postoji
određena verovatnoća
određena verovatnoća
da može da prodre kroz čvrsti zid
08:21
through a solid wall, like a phantom
leaping through to the other side.
leaping through to the other side.
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kao fantom koji iskače na drugoj strani.
08:24
You can see a faint smudge of light
in the right-hand box.
in the right-hand box.
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Možete videti bledu svetlosnu mrlju
u kutiji na desnoj strani.
u kutiji na desnoj strani.
08:29
Quantum tunneling suggests that a particle
can hit an impenetrable barrier,
can hit an impenetrable barrier,
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Kvantno tunelovanje sugeriše da čestica
može udariti u neprobojnu prepreku
može udariti u neprobojnu prepreku
08:34
and yet somehow, as though by magic,
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i ipak nekako, kao magijom,
08:36
disappear from one side
and reappear on the other.
and reappear on the other.
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iščeznuti na jednoj strani
i pojaviti se na drugoj.
i pojaviti se na drugoj.
08:39
The nicest way of explaining it is
if you want to throw a ball over a wall,
if you want to throw a ball over a wall,
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Najbolji način da se to objasni
je ako hoćete da bacite loptu preko zida,
je ako hoćete da bacite loptu preko zida,
08:43
you have to give it enough energy
to get over the top of the wall.
to get over the top of the wall.
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morate da joj date dovoljno energije
da pređe preko vrha zida.
da pređe preko vrha zida.
08:47
In the quantum world,
you don't have to throw it over the wall,
you don't have to throw it over the wall,
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U kvantnom svetu
ne morate da je bacate preko zida;
ne morate da je bacate preko zida;
08:50
you can throw it at the wall,
and there's a certain non-zero probability
and there's a certain non-zero probability
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možete da je bacite ka zidu
i postoji određena verovatnoća
veća od nule
veća od nule
08:54
that it'll disappear on your side,
and reappear on the other.
and reappear on the other.
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da će nestati s vaše strane
i pojaviti se na suprotnoj strani.
i pojaviti se na suprotnoj strani.
08:57
This isn't speculation, by the way.
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Ovo inače nije spekulacija.
08:59
We're happy -- well, "happy"
is not the right word --
is not the right word --
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Mi smo srećni -
pa, „srećni” i nije prava reč -
pa, „srećni” i nije prava reč -
09:02
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
09:04
we are familiar with this.
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mi smo upoznati sa ovim.
09:06
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
09:08
Quantum tunneling
takes place all the time;
takes place all the time;
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Kvantno tunelovanje se dešava stalno;
09:11
in fact, it's the reason our Sun shines.
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zapravo, ono je razlog što Sunce sija.
09:14
The particles fuse together,
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Čestice se združuju
09:16
and the Sun turns hydrogen
into helium through quantum tunneling.
into helium through quantum tunneling.
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i Sunce pretvara vodonik u helijum
preko kvantnog tunelovanja.
preko kvantnog tunelovanja.
09:21
Back in the 70s and 80s, it was discovered
that quantum tunneling also takes place
that quantum tunneling also takes place
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Tokom '70-ih i '80-ih otkriveno je
da se kvantno tunelovanje takođe dešava
da se kvantno tunelovanje takođe dešava
09:26
inside living cells.
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unutar živih ćelija.
09:28
Enzymes, those workhorses of life,
the catalysts of chemical reactions --
the catalysts of chemical reactions --
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Enzimi, ovi pokretači života,
katalizatori hemijskih reakcija -
katalizatori hemijskih reakcija -
09:34
enzymes are biomolecules that speed up
chemical reactions in living cells,
chemical reactions in living cells,
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enzimi su biomolekuli koji ubrzavaju
hemijske reakcije u živim ćelijama
hemijske reakcije u živim ćelijama
09:38
by many, many orders of magnitude.
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mnogo, mnogo desetina puta
09:40
And it's always been a mystery
how they do this.
how they do this.
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i uvek je bila misterija kako ovo čine.
09:43
Well, it was discovered
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Pa, otkriveno je
09:44
that one of the tricks that enzymes
have evolved to make use of,
have evolved to make use of,
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da jedan od trikova koji enzimi koriste
pošto su evoluirali
pošto su evoluirali
09:49
is by transferring subatomic particles,
like electrons and indeed protons,
like electrons and indeed protons,
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jeste transfer subatomskih čestica
poput elektrona i protona
poput elektrona i protona
09:54
from one part of a molecule
to another via quantum tunneling.
to another via quantum tunneling.
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sa jednog kraja molekula na drugi,
putem kvantnog tunelovanja.
putem kvantnog tunelovanja.
10:00
It's efficient, it's fast,
it can disappear --
it can disappear --
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To je efikasno, brzo, može nestati -
10:03
a proton can disappear from one place,
and reappear on the other.
and reappear on the other.
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proton može nestati s jednog mesta
i pojaviti se na drugom mestu.
i pojaviti se na drugom mestu.
10:06
Enzymes help this take place.
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Enzimi pomažu da se ovo desi.
10:08
This is research that's been
carried out back in the 80s,
carried out back in the 80s,
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Ovo je istraživanje koje je vršeno '80-ih
10:11
particularly by a group
in Berkeley, Judith Klinman.
in Berkeley, Judith Klinman.
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posebno od strane grupe na Berkliju,
Džudit Klinman.
Džudit Klinman.
10:15
Other groups in the UK
have now also confirmed
have now also confirmed
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Druge grupe u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu
takođe su sad potvrdile
takođe su sad potvrdile
10:17
that enzymes really do this.
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da enzimi stvarno ovo rade.
10:21
Research carried out by my group --
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Istraživanje koje je sprovela moja grupa -
10:23
so as I mentioned,
I'm a nuclear physicist,
I'm a nuclear physicist,
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kao što sam pomenuo,
ja sam nuklearni fizičar,
ja sam nuklearni fizičar,
10:26
but I've realized I've got these tools
of using quantum mechanics
of using quantum mechanics
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ali sam shvatio da posedujem
alate za upotrebu kvantne mehanike
alate za upotrebu kvantne mehanike
10:29
in atomic nuclei, and so can apply
those tools in other areas as well.
those tools in other areas as well.
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u atomskom jezgru i zato mogu da primenim
te alate takođe u drugim oblastima.
te alate takođe u drugim oblastima.
10:35
One question we asked
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Jedno pitanje koje smo postavili
10:37
is whether quantum tunneling
plays a role in mutations in DNA.
plays a role in mutations in DNA.
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jeste da li kvantno tunelovanje
igra ulogu u mutaciji DNK.
igra ulogu u mutaciji DNK.
10:41
Again, this is not a new idea;
it goes all the way back to the early 60s.
it goes all the way back to the early 60s.
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Opet, ovo nije nova ideja;
postoji od ranih '60-ih.
postoji od ranih '60-ih.
10:45
The two strands of DNA,
the double-helix structure,
the double-helix structure,
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Dve niti DNK, dvospiralna struktura,
10:48
are held together by rungs;
it's like a twisted ladder.
it's like a twisted ladder.
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spojene su prečagama,
kao uvrnute merdevine
kao uvrnute merdevine
10:51
And those rungs of the ladder
are hydrogen bonds --
are hydrogen bonds --
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i te prečage merdevina
jesu vodonične veze -
jesu vodonične veze -
10:54
protons, that act as the glue
between the two strands.
between the two strands.
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protoni koji se ponašaju kao lepak
između dve niti.
između dve niti.
10:58
So if you zoom in, what they're doing
is holding these large molecules --
is holding these large molecules --
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Dakle, ako uveličate,
oni drže te velike molekule -
oni drže te velike molekule -
11:03
nucleotides -- together.
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nukleotide - zajedno.
11:06
Zoom in a bit more.
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Uveličajte još malo.
11:07
So, this a computer simulation.
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Dakle, ovo je kompjuterska simulacija.
11:09
The two white balls
in the middle are protons,
in the middle are protons,
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Dve bele lopte u sredini su protoni
11:13
and you can see that
it's a double hydrogen bond.
it's a double hydrogen bond.
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i možete videti da je to
dupla vodonična veza.
dupla vodonična veza.
11:15
One prefers to sit on one side;
the other, on the other side
the other, on the other side
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Jedan više voli da sedi na jednoj strani,
drugi na drugoj strani dveju niti,
drugi na drugoj strani dveju niti,
11:19
of the two strands of the vertical lines
going down, which you can't see.
going down, which you can't see.
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na dve vertikalne linije
koje se spuštaju nadole
koje se spuštaju nadole
koje ne možete videti.
11:24
It can happen that
these two protons can hop over.
these two protons can hop over.
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Može se desiti da ova dva protona
mogu da preskoče preko.
mogu da preskoče preko.
11:27
Watch the two white balls.
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Gledajte ove dve bele lopte.
11:29
They can jump over to the other side.
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Mogu da preskoče na drugu stranu.
11:32
If the two strands of DNA then separate,
leading to the process of replication,
leading to the process of replication,
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Ako se dve niti DNK razdvoje
dovodeći do procesa replikacije,
dovodeći do procesa replikacije,
11:37
and the two protons
are in the wrong positions,
are in the wrong positions,
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a dva protona su na pogrešnim mestima,
11:41
this can lead to a mutation.
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ovo može da dovede do mutacije.
11:43
This has been known for half a century.
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Ovo je poznato poslednjih 50 godina.
11:45
The question is: How likely
are they to do that,
are they to do that,
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Pitanje je - koliko je verovatno
da oni to učine
da oni to učine
11:47
and if they do, how do they do it?
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i, ako učine, kako to rade?
11:49
Do they jump across,
like the ball going over the wall?
like the ball going over the wall?
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Da li preskaču kao lopta
koja ide preko zida
koja ide preko zida
11:52
Or can they quantum-tunnel across,
even if they don't have enough energy?
even if they don't have enough energy?
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ili prelaze preko
putem kvantnog tunelovanja,
putem kvantnog tunelovanja,
čak i ako nemaju dovoljno energije?
11:57
Early indications suggest that
quantum tunneling can play a role here.
quantum tunneling can play a role here.
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Početne naznake sugerišu
da kvantno tunelovanje ovde igra ulogu.
da kvantno tunelovanje ovde igra ulogu.
12:01
We still don't know yet
how important it is;
how important it is;
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Još uvek ne znamo koliko je bitno;
12:03
this is still an open question.
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to je još uvek otvoreno pitanje.
12:06
It's speculative,
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U domenu je nagađanja,
12:07
but it's one of those questions
that is so important
that is so important
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ali je jedno od onih pitanja
koje je toliko bitno,
koje je toliko bitno,
12:10
that if quantum mechanics
plays a role in mutations,
plays a role in mutations,
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ako kvantna mehanika
igra ulogu u mutacijama,
igra ulogu u mutacijama,
12:12
surely this must have big implications,
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svakako ovo mora imati
bitne implikacije
bitne implikacije
12:14
to understand certain types of mutations,
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za razumevanje određenih tipova mutacija,
12:17
possibly even those that lead
to turning a cell cancerous.
to turning a cell cancerous.
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moguće čak i onih koji dovode
do pretvaranja ćelija u kancerogene.
do pretvaranja ćelija u kancerogene.
12:22
Another example of quantum mechanics
in biology is quantum coherence,
in biology is quantum coherence,
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Drugi primer kvantne mehanike
u biologiji je kvantna koherencij
u biologiji je kvantna koherencij
12:28
in one of the most
important processes in biology,
important processes in biology,
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u jednom od najvažnijih procesa
u biologiji, fotosintezi -
u biologiji, fotosintezi -
12:30
photosynthesis: plants
and bacteria taking sunlight,
and bacteria taking sunlight,
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biljke i bakterije uzimaju
Sunčevu svetlost
Sunčevu svetlost
12:34
and using that energy to create biomass.
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i koriste tu energiju
za stvaranje biomase.
za stvaranje biomase.
12:38
Quantum coherence is the idea
of quantum entities multitasking.
of quantum entities multitasking.
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Kvantna koherencija je ideja
da kvantni entiteti rade
da kvantni entiteti rade
više poslova istovremeno.
12:42
It's the quantum skier.
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To je kvantni skijaš.
12:44
It's an object that behaves like a wave,
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To je objekat koji se ponaša kao talas,
12:47
so that it doesn't just move
in one direction or the other,
in one direction or the other,
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tako da se ne kreće
samo u jednom ili drugom pravcu,
samo u jednom ili drugom pravcu,
12:50
but can follow multiple pathways
at the same time.
at the same time.
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već može da prati
više putanja istovremeno.
više putanja istovremeno.
12:54
Some years ago,
the world of science was shocked
the world of science was shocked
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Pre nekoliko godina
svet nauke je bio šokiran
svet nauke je bio šokiran
12:58
when a paper was published
showing experimental evidence
showing experimental evidence
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kada je objavljen rad
koji pokazuje eksperimentalne dokaze
koji pokazuje eksperimentalne dokaze
13:02
that quantum coherence
takes place inside bacteria,
takes place inside bacteria,
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da se kvantna koherencija
odigrava unutar bakterija,
odigrava unutar bakterija,
13:06
carrying out photosynthesis.
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vršeći fotosintezu.
13:07
The idea is that the photon,
the particle of light, the sunlight,
the particle of light, the sunlight,
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Ideja je da foton, čestica svetlosti,
Sunčeve svetlosti,
Sunčeve svetlosti,
13:10
the quantum of light
captured by a chlorophyll molecule,
captured by a chlorophyll molecule,
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kvantum svetlosti
koga je uhvatio molekul hlorofila
koga je uhvatio molekul hlorofila
13:14
is then delivered to what's called
the reaction center,
the reaction center,
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biva predat onome
što se zove reakcioni centar,
što se zove reakcioni centar,
13:16
where it can be turned into
chemical energy.
chemical energy.
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gde može biti pretvoren
u hemijsku energiju.
u hemijsku energiju.
13:18
And in getting there,
it doesn't just follow one route;
it doesn't just follow one route;
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I dolazeći tamo,
ne prati samo jednu putanju;
ne prati samo jednu putanju;
13:21
it follows multiple pathways at once,
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prati više putanja istovremeno
13:23
to optimize the most efficient way
of reaching the reaction center
of reaching the reaction center
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da bi na najefikasniji način
stigao do reakcionog centra
stigao do reakcionog centra
13:28
without dissipating as waste heat.
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bez da nestane kao toplota
koja je nus-proizvod.
koja je nus-proizvod.
13:31
Quantum coherence taking place
inside a living cell.
inside a living cell.
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Kvantna koherencija se dešava
unutar živih ćelija.
unutar živih ćelija.
13:34
A remarkable idea,
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Izuzetna ideja,
13:36
and yet evidence is growing almost weekly,
with new papers coming out,
with new papers coming out,
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pa ipak dokazi narastaju skoro nedeljno
sa novim radovima koji se pojavljuju,
sa novim radovima koji se pojavljuju,
13:42
confirming that this
does indeed take place.
does indeed take place.
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potvrđujući da se ovo zaista odigrava.
13:45
My third and final example
is the most beautiful, wonderful idea.
is the most beautiful, wonderful idea.
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Moj treći i poslednji primer
jeste najlepša, najdivnija ideja.
jeste najlepša, najdivnija ideja.
13:50
It's also still very speculative,
but I have to share it with you.
but I have to share it with you.
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Takođe je još uvek u domenu nagađanja,
ali moram da je podelim sa vama.
ali moram da je podelim sa vama.
13:54
The European robin
migrates from Scandinavia
migrates from Scandinavia
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Evropski crvendaći migriraju
iz Skandinavije do Mediterana svake jeseni
13:59
down to the Mediterranean, every autumn,
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14:01
and like a lot of other
marine animals and even insects,
marine animals and even insects,
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i kao dosta drugih morskih životinja,
čak i insekata
čak i insekata
14:05
they navigate by sensing
the Earth's magnetic field.
the Earth's magnetic field.
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nalaze put osećajući
Zemljino magnetno polje.
Zemljino magnetno polje.
Sad, Zemljino magnetno polje
je veoma, veoma slabo;
je veoma, veoma slabo;
14:10
Now, the Earth's magnetic field
is very, very weak;
is very, very weak;
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ono je sto puta slabije
od magneta frižidera,
od magneta frižidera,
14:13
it's 100 times weaker
than a fridge magnet,
than a fridge magnet,
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14:15
and yet it affects the chemistry --
somehow -- within a living organism.
somehow -- within a living organism.
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pa ipak utiče na hemiju -
nekako - unutar živih organizama.
nekako - unutar živih organizama.
14:21
That's not in doubt --
a German couple of ornithologists,
a German couple of ornithologists,
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Ovo ne podleže sumnji -
nemački par orintologa,
nemački par orintologa,
14:25
Wolfgang and Roswitha Wiltschko,
in the 1970s, confirmed that indeed,
in the 1970s, confirmed that indeed,
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Volfgan i Rosvita Vilčko,
1970-ih potvrdili su
1970-ih potvrdili su
14:30
the robin does find its way by somehow
sensing the Earth's magnetic field,
sensing the Earth's magnetic field,
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da crvendać zaista nalazi svoj put
osećajući nekako Zemljino magnetno polje
osećajući nekako Zemljino magnetno polje
14:34
to give it directional information --
a built-in compass.
a built-in compass.
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koje pruža informacije o pravcu,
ugrađeni kompas.
ugrađeni kompas.
14:37
The puzzle, the mystery was:
How does it do it?
How does it do it?
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Zagonetka, misterija je - kako to radi?
14:40
Well, the only theory in town --
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Pa, jedina postojeća teorija -
14:43
we don't know if it's the correct theory,
but the only theory in town --
but the only theory in town --
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ne znamo da li je ispravna,
ali je jedina postojeća teorija -
ali je jedina postojeća teorija -
jeste da to čini putem nečega
što se zove kvantno uplitanje.
što se zove kvantno uplitanje.
14:46
is that it does it via something
called quantum entanglement.
called quantum entanglement.
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14:50
Inside the robin's retina --
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Unutar crvendaćeve mrežnjače -
14:52
I kid you not -- inside the robin's retina
is a protein called cryptochrome,
is a protein called cryptochrome,
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ne šalim se - u crvendaćevoj mrežnjači
je protein nazvan kriptohrom,
je protein nazvan kriptohrom,
14:57
which is light-sensitive.
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koji je osetljiv na svetlost.
14:58
Within cryptochrome, a pair of electrons
are quantum-entangled.
are quantum-entangled.
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Sa kriptohromom par elektrona
je kvantno isprepletan.
je kvantno isprepletan.
15:02
Now, quantum entanglement
is when two particles are far apart,
is when two particles are far apart,
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Sad, kvantno uplitanje
je kada su dve čestice razdvojene,
je kada su dve čestice razdvojene,
15:05
and yet somehow remain
in contact with each other.
in contact with each other.
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a ipak nekako ostaju
u kontaktu jedna sa drugom.
u kontaktu jedna sa drugom.
15:08
Even Einstein hated this idea;
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Čak je i Anštajn mrzeo ovu ideju;
15:10
he called it "spooky action
at a distance."
at a distance."
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nazvao ju je
„sablasna radnja na distanci.”
„sablasna radnja na distanci.”
15:12
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
Dakle, ako je Anštajn ne voli,
onda kod svih nas može stvarati nelagodu.
onda kod svih nas može stvarati nelagodu.
15:14
So if Einstein doesn't like it,
then we can all be uncomfortable with it.
then we can all be uncomfortable with it.
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15:17
Two quantum-entangled electrons
within a single molecule
within a single molecule
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Dva kvantno isprepletana elektrona
unutar jednog molekula
unutar jednog molekula
plešu delikatnim plesom
15:20
dance a delicate dance
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koji je osetljiv na pravac
kojim ptice lete
kojim ptice lete
15:22
that is very sensitive
to the direction the bird flies
to the direction the bird flies
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15:24
in the Earth's magnetic field.
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u Zemljinom magnetnom polju.
15:26
We don't know if it's
the correct explanation,
the correct explanation,
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Ne znamo da li je ovo
ispravno objašnjenje,
ispravno objašnjenje,
15:29
but wow, wouldn't it be exciting
if quantum mechanics helps birds navigate?
if quantum mechanics helps birds navigate?
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ali opa, zar ne bi bilo uzbudljivo
kada bi kvantna mehanika
kada bi kvantna mehanika
pomagala pticama da nađu put?
15:35
Quantum biology is still in it infancy.
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Kvantna biologija je još uvek
u fazi razvoja.
u fazi razvoja.
15:37
It's still speculative.
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Još uvek je u domenu nagađanja,
15:41
But I believe it's built on solid science.
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ali verujem da je izgrađena
na jakoj nauci.
na jakoj nauci.
15:45
I also think that
in the coming decade or so,
in the coming decade or so,
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Takođe mislim da ćemo
u decenijama koje dolaze
u decenijama koje dolaze
15:49
we're going to start to see
that actually, it pervades life --
that actually, it pervades life --
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početi da uviđamo
da zapravo prožima život -
da zapravo prožima život -
15:54
that life has evolved tricks
that utilize the quantum world.
that utilize the quantum world.
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da život ima razvijene trikove
koji koriste kvantni svet.
koji koriste kvantni svet.
16:00
Watch this space.
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Posmatrajte ovaj prostor.
16:01
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
16:02
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jim Al-Khalili - Quantum physicistPhysicist Jim Al-Khalili and co-author Johnjoe McFadden, a biologist, explore the far edges of quantum biology in their book "Life on the Edge."
Why you should listen
A professor of physics at the University of Surrey, Jim Al-Khalili doubles as a science communicator and broadcaster. He’s the co-author with Johnjoe McFadden of Life on the Edge: The Coming of Age of Quantum Biology. The book explores this emerging -- and still largely speculative -- area of science suggesting that quantum mechanics may play a role in biology. If so, it may help us understand what drives genetic mutations that lead to cancer, or how robins fly from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean.
More profile about the speakerJim Al-Khalili | Speaker | TED.com