TED2015
Alec Soth and Stacey Baker: This is what enduring love looks like
Alec Soth + Stacey Baker: 不朽的爱情是这样的
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Stacey Baker一直对夫妇是如何的相遇而痴迷。当她请摄影师Alec Soth帮她一起探索这个主题时，在情人节当天，他们俩去了拉斯维加斯的世界最大的速配约会活动。他们俩又去了内华达最大的退休人士居住社区，Soth在现场拍摄了那里的夫妇。在这两个相对的活动中，他们解开了这条美丽的线索—— 一对夫妇如何从相遇走到共同创造生活。
Stacey Baker - Photo editor
Stacey Baker assigns photography for the wide-ranging vision of the weekly New York Times Magazine. Full bioAlec Soth - Photographer
Alec Soth makes large-scale projects that are as much about dreams and heartache as they are about charting the landscape of Middle America. Full bio
Stacey Baker assigns photography for the wide-ranging vision of the weekly New York Times Magazine. Full bioAlec Soth - Photographer
Alec Soth makes large-scale projects that are as much about dreams and heartache as they are about charting the landscape of Middle America. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Alec Soth: So about 10 years ago,
I got a call from a woman in Texas,
I got a call from a woman in Texas,
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Alec Soth: 大概十年前，
我收到德州一位女士的电话，
我收到德州一位女士的电话，
00:16
Stacey Baker,
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就是她，Stacey Baker。
00:18
and she'd seen some of my photographs
in an art exhibition
in an art exhibition
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她在一场艺术展上看过我的一些摄影作品，
00:22
and was wondering if she could commission
me to take a portrait of her parents.
me to take a portrait of her parents.
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然后想问是否可以请我为她的父母拍照。
00:27
Now, at the time I hadn't met Stacey,
and I thought this was some sort of
and I thought this was some sort of
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当时，我还没有见到Stacey，
我本以为她会是
我本以为她会是
00:31
wealthy oil tycoon and I'd struck it rich,
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某位石油大亨，让我一夜暴富。
00:35
but it was only later that I found out
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然而后来我很快发现，
00:37
she'd actually taken out a loan
to make this happen.
to make this happen.
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她实际上是贷款来完成这个拍摄的。
00:41
I took the picture of her parents,
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我为她父母拍摄了照片，
00:43
but I was actually more excited
about photographing Stacey.
about photographing Stacey.
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但实际上我对拍摄Stacey更感兴趣。
00:47
The picture I made that day
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当日我拍下的这张照片，
00:48
ended up becoming
one of my best-known portraits.
one of my best-known portraits.
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最后成为了我最出名的人像摄影作品之一。
00:53
At the time I made this picture,
Stacey was working as an attorney
Stacey was working as an attorney
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我拍这张照片的时候，
Stacey是德州的一位律师。
Stacey是德州的一位律师。
00:57
for the State of Texas.
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00:58
Not long after, she left her job
to study photography in Maine,
to study photography in Maine,
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不久之后，她辞去工作，
去缅因州学习摄影。
去缅因州学习摄影。
01:03
and while she was there,
she ended up meeting
she ended up meeting
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在那期间，
她遇到了纽约时报杂志的一名摄影指导，
她遇到了纽约时报杂志的一名摄影指导，
01:05
the director of photography
at the New York Times Magazine
at the New York Times Magazine
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01:08
and was actually offered a job.
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并得到了一份工作。
01:12
Stacey Baker: In the years since,
Alec and I have done
Alec and I have done
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Stacey Baker: 那之后很多年里，
01:14
a number of magazine projects together,
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Alec和我一起完成了很多杂志摄影项目。
01:17
and we've become friends.
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而且我们成为了朋友。
01:19
A few months ago, I started talking
to Alec about a fascination of mine.
to Alec about a fascination of mine.
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几个月前，
我给Alec讲述了我非常着迷的一个领域。
我给Alec讲述了我非常着迷的一个领域。
01:23
I've always been obsessed
with how couples meet.
with how couples meet.
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我一直痴迷于研究夫妇是如何相遇的。
01:27
I asked Alec how he
and his wife Rachel met,
and his wife Rachel met,
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我问Alec是如何和他妻子Rachel相遇的，
01:30
and he told me the story
of a high school football game
of a high school football game
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他给我讲述了一个高中橄榄球赛的故事。
01:33
where she was 16 and he was 15,
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当时她16岁，他15岁，
01:36
and he asked her out.
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他约她出去，
01:38
He liked her purple hair.
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他喜欢她紫色的头发，
01:40
She said yes, and that was it.
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她同意了，就是这样而已。
01:43
I then asked Alec if he'd be interested
in doing a photography project
in doing a photography project
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然后我问Alec他是否感兴趣做一个摄影项目
01:47
exploring this question.
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来探索这个问题。
01:49
AS: And I was interested in the question,
but I was actually much more interested
but I was actually much more interested
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Alec Soth: 我对这个话题感兴趣，
但我更感兴趣的是
但我更感兴趣的是
01:53
in Stacey's motivation for asking it,
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Stacey 询问的动机。
01:56
particularly since I'd never known
Stacey to have a boyfriend.
Stacey to have a boyfriend.
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尤其是因为我从没听说 Stacey 有男朋友。
02:00
So as part of this project,
I thought it'd be interesting
I thought it'd be interesting
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所以作为这个项目的一部分，
我想如果她可以开始约会应该很有意思。
02:03
if she tried to meet someone.
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02:05
So my idea was to have Stacey here
go speed dating
go speed dating
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所以我的想法是让 Stacey 参加速配约会，
02:10
in Las Vegas on Valentine's Day.
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去拉斯维加斯，在情人节当天。
02:14
(Laughter) (Applause) (Music)
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（笑声）（掌声）（音乐）
02:20
SB: We ended up at what was advertised
as the world's largest speed dating event.
as the world's largest speed dating event.
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Stacey Baker: 我们最后参加了
被宣传为世界最大规模速配约会的活动。
被宣传为世界最大规模速配约会的活动。
02:25
I had 19 dates
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我经历了19个约会，
02:27
and each date lasted three minutes.
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每个三分钟。
02:30
Participants were given a list of ice-
breaker questions to get the ball rolling,
breaker questions to get the ball rolling,
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参加者会得到一张清单，
写着各种用来打破沉默的问题
写着各种用来打破沉默的问题
02:34
things like, "If you could be any kind
of animal, what would you be?"
of animal, what would you be?"
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问题例如 “如果你可以成为一种动物，
你会选择什么？”
你会选择什么？”
02:38
That sort of thing.
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诸如此类。
02:40
My first date was Colin.
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我的第一个约会对象是Colin，
02:42
He's from England,
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他来自英国，
02:44
and he once married a woman he met
after placing an ad for a Capricorn.
after placing an ad for a Capricorn.
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他在张贴“想认识摩羯座的女孩”的广告后，
遇见了前妻。
遇见了前妻。
02:49
Alec and I saw him
at the end of the evening,
at the end of the evening,
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Alec 和我在那晚结束时看到了他，
02:52
and he said he'd kissed a woman in line
at one of the concession stands.
at one of the concession stands.
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他说他亲吻了一位在小卖部排队的女士。
02:57
Zack and Chris came
to the date-a-thon together.
to the date-a-thon together.
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Zack 和 Chris 是一起来参加这场约会马拉松的。
03:02
This is Carl.
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这位是Carl。
03:05
I asked Carl, "What's the first thing
you notice about a woman?"
you notice about a woman?"
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我问Carl，“对一个女人，你首先关注的是什么？”
03:10
He said, "Tits."
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他说，“乳房。”
03:12
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:17
Matthew is attracted to women
with muscular calves.
with muscular calves.
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Matthew 喜欢女人的小腿肌肉。
03:20
We talked about running. He does
triathlons, I run half-marathons.
triathlons, I run half-marathons.
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我们聊了跑步。
他参加三项全能，我参加半程马拉松。
他参加三项全能，我参加半程马拉松。
03:24
Alec actually liked his eyes and asked
if I was attracted to him, but I wasn't,
if I was attracted to him, but I wasn't,
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Alec 很喜欢他的眼睛，
问我有没有被他吸引，我说：没有。
问我有没有被他吸引，我说：没有。
03:29
and I don't think he was
attracted to me either.
attracted to me either.
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而且我想我也没有吸引到他。
03:33
Austin and Mike came together.
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Austin 和 Mark 是一起来参加的。
03:36
Mike asked me a hypothetical question.
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Mike 问我了一个假设性问题。
03:39
He said, "You're in an elevator
running late for a meeting.
running late for a meeting.
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他说，“如果你在一架电梯里，
参加会议要迟到了，
参加会议要迟到了，
03:43
Someone makes a dash for the elevator.
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这时候有个人想冲进电梯，
03:46
Do you hold it open for them?"
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你会等他上来后再关门吗？”
03:49
And I said I would not.
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我回答说不会。
03:51
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:55
Cliff said the first thing he notices
about a woman is her teeth,
about a woman is her teeth,
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Cliff 说他会先注意到女人的牙齿，
03:59
and we complimented each other's teeth.
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我们称赞了对方的牙齿。
04:02
Because he's an open mouth sleeper,
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因为他是那种张嘴睡觉的人，
04:05
he says he has to floss more
to help prevent gum disease,
to help prevent gum disease,
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他说他需要更频繁地使用牙线，
以预防牙周病。
以预防牙周病。
04:09
and so I asked him how often he flosses,
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所以我问他用牙线有多频繁，
04:11
and he said, "Every other day."
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然后他回答说，“两天一次。”
04:14
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:17
Now, as someone who flosses twice a day,
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作为一个一天用两次牙线的人，
04:19
I wasn't really sure that
that was flossing more
that was flossing more
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我不是太确定这算是更频繁的使用，
04:22
but I don't think I said that out loud.
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但是我应该没有说出口。
04:24
Bill is an auditor,
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Bill 是一位审计师。
04:27
and we talked the entire three minutes
about auditing. (Laughter)
about auditing. (Laughter)
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然后我们三分钟全程都在讨论审计。
（笑声）
（笑声）
04:34
The first thing Spencer notices
about a woman is her complexion.
about a woman is her complexion.
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Spencer 首先注意到女人的会是她的面色。
04:38
He feels a lot of women
wear too much makeup,
wear too much makeup,
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他觉得很多女人妆化得太重了，
04:41
and that they should only wear enough
to accentuate the features that they have.
to accentuate the features that they have.
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他觉得女人只应该适当强调特征部位就可以。
04:45
I told him I didn't wear any makeup at all
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我告诉他，我一点妆也没化，
04:47
and he seemed to think
that that was a good thing.
that that was a good thing.
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他看上去觉得这是件好事。
04:51
Craig told me he didn't think
I was willing to be vulnerable.
I was willing to be vulnerable.
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Craig 告诉我，
他觉得我是不愿意脆弱的人。
他觉得我是不愿意脆弱的人。
04:55
He was also frustrated when I couldn't
remember my most embarrassing moment.
remember my most embarrassing moment.
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对于我不能回想起人生中最尴尬时刻，
他感到很受挫。
他感到很受挫。
05:00
He thought I was lying, but I wasn't.
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他觉得我在说谎，但我并没有。
05:02
I didn't think he liked me at all,
but at the end of the night,
but at the end of the night,
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我一点也没觉得他喜欢我，
但是那晚结束时，
但是那晚结束时，
05:05
he came back to me and he gave me
a box of chocolates.
a box of chocolates.
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他来找我了，还送给了我一盒巧克力。
05:09
William was really difficult to talk to.
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和 William 很难交谈，
05:12
I think he was drunk.
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我觉得他喝多了。
05:14
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:17
Actor Chris McKenna
was the MC of the event.
was the MC of the event.
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演员 Chris McKenna 是活动的司仪，
05:20
He used to be on
"The Young and the Restless."
"The Young and the Restless."
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他曾出演过“不安分的青春”。
05:23
I didn't actually go on a date with him.
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我实际上并没有和他约会。
05:26
Alec said he saw several women
give their phone numbers to him.
give their phone numbers to him.
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Alec 说他看到一些女性
把自己的电话号码给了 Chris。
把自己的电话号码给了 Chris。
05:30
Needless to say, I didn't fall in love.
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毋庸置疑，我没有坠入爱河。
05:35
I didn't feel a particular connection with
any of the men that I went on dates with,
any of the men that I went on dates with,
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我没有对约会的任何一位男士有特别的感觉，
05:39
and I didn't feel like they felt
a particular connection with me either.
a particular connection with me either.
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也没感到他们对我有特殊的感觉。
05:45
AS: Now, the most beautiful thing to me --
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Alec Soth: 作为一位摄影师，
对我来说最美好的事情--
对我来说最美好的事情--
05:48
(Laughter) -- as a photographer
is the quality of vulnerability.
is the quality of vulnerability.
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（笑声）就是脆弱的特质。
05:53
The physical exterior reveals a crack
in which you can get a glimpse
in which you can get a glimpse
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生理性质的外部展示出裂痕，
05:57
at a more fragile interior.
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由此可以窥见一个更加脆弱的内心。
06:00
At this date-a-thon event,
I saw so many examples of that,
I saw so many examples of that,
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在这场约会马拉松上，
我看到了许许多多这样的例子，
我看到了许许多多这样的例子，
06:03
but as I watched Stacey's dates
and talked to her about them,
and talked to her about them,
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但是我看着 Stacey 的约会对象，
对着她介绍自己，
对着她介绍自己，
06:08
I realized how different
photographic love is from real love.
photographic love is from real love.
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我意识到照片下的爱
和真实中的爱是多么的不同。
和真实中的爱是多么的不同。
06:14
What is real love? How does it work?
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什么是真实的爱？它如何作用？
06:18
In order to work on this question
and to figure out how someone goes
and to figure out how someone goes
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为了解决这个问题，
为了找寻人们是如何从约会到一起生活的答案，
06:22
from meeting on a date
to having a life together,
to having a life together,
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06:27
Stacey and I went to Sun City Summerlin,
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Stacey 和我去了太阳城，
06:29
which is the largest
retirement community in Las Vegas.
retirement community in Las Vegas.
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它是拉斯维加斯最大的退休人群居住社区。
06:35
Our contact there was George,
who runs the community's photography club.
who runs the community's photography club.
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我们在那的联系人是George，
他经营社区的摄影俱乐部。
他经营社区的摄影俱乐部。
06:39
He arranged for us to meet other couples
in their makeshift photo studio.
in their makeshift photo studio.
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他在简易摄影工作室里，
为我们安排了与其他夫妇的见面。
为我们安排了与其他夫妇的见面。
06:44
SB: After 45 years of marriage,
Anastasia's husband died two years ago,
Anastasia's husband died two years ago,
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Stacey Baker: 经过了45年的婚姻生活，
Anastasia 的丈夫于两年前去世了。
Anastasia 的丈夫于两年前去世了。
06:49
so we asked if she had
an old wedding picture.
an old wedding picture.
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所以我们问她能否提供以前的结婚照片。
06:52
She met her husband
when she was a 15-year-old waitress
when she was a 15-year-old waitress
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她遇见他的丈夫的时候，
她是一位15岁的服务生，
她是一位15岁的服务生，
06:56
at a small barbecue place in Michigan.
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在密歇根一家小烧烤店工作。
06:58
He was 30.
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他当时30岁。
07:00
She'd lied about her age.
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她谎报了年龄。
07:02
He was the first person she'd dated.
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他是她约会的第一个人。
07:05
Dean had been named photographer of
the year in Las Vegas two years in a row,
the year in Las Vegas two years in a row,
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Dean 曾连续两年在拉斯维加斯
被称为年度摄影师。
被称为年度摄影师。
07:09
and this caught Alec's attention,
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这引起了 Alec 的关注。
07:11
as did the fact
that he met his wife, Judy,
that he met his wife, Judy,
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事实上，Dean 遇见他妻子 Judy 时的年龄，
07:14
at the same age when Alec met Rachel.
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与 Alec 遇见 Rachel 时的年龄一样。
07:17
Dean admitted that he likes
to look at beautiful women,
to look at beautiful women,
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Dean 承认他喜欢看漂亮的的女人，
07:20
but he's never questioned
his decision to marry Judy.
his decision to marry Judy.
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但是他从未对自己选择 Judy 产生过疑问。
07:24
AS: George met Josephine
at a parish dance.
at a parish dance.
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Alec Soth: George 是在教区舞会上
遇到 Josephine 的。
遇到 Josephine 的。
07:27
He was 18, she was 15.
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当时他18岁，她15岁。
07:29
Like a lot of the couples we met,
they weren't especially philosophical
they weren't especially philosophical
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如同我们遇到的很多夫妇一样，
在一开始选择时，他们没有特别的理性。
07:33
about their early choices.
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07:35
George said something
that really stuck with me.
that really stuck with me.
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George 说的话让我特别难以忘怀，
07:38
He said, "When you get that feeling,
you just go with it."
you just go with it."
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他说，“当你有感觉时，就跟着感觉走。”
07:46
Bob and Trudy met on a blind date
when she was still in high school.
when she was still in high school.
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Bob 和 Trudy 在一场初次约会中相遇，
当时她还在高中。
当时她还在高中。
07:49
They said they weren't particularly
attracted to each other
attracted to each other
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他们说他们在初次见面时，并没有特别互相吸引。
07:52
when the first met.
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然而，他们之后很快结婚了。
07:53
Nevertheless, they were
married soon after.
married soon after.
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07:57
SB: The story that stayed with me the most
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Stacey Baker: 我印象最深的故事
07:59
was that of George, the photography club
president, and his wife, Mary.
president, and his wife, Mary.
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是 George，摄影俱乐部会长，
和他的妻子，Mary。
和他的妻子，Mary。
08:04
This was George and Mary's
second marriage.
second marriage.
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这是 George 和 Mary 的第二次婚姻。
08:07
They met at a country-western club
in Louisville, Kentucky called the Sahara.
in Louisville, Kentucky called the Sahara.
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他们一个叫撒哈拉的西部俱乐部相遇，
俱乐部在肯塔基的路易斯维尔。
俱乐部在肯塔基的路易斯维尔。
08:12
He was there alone drinking
and she was with friends.
and she was with friends.
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当时他独自在那喝酒，
而她和她的朋友们一起。
而她和她的朋友们一起。
08:16
When they started dating,
he owed the IRS 9,000 dollars in taxes,
he owed the IRS 9,000 dollars in taxes,
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当他们开始约会时，
他欠国税局9000美金税款。
他欠国税局9000美金税款。
08:21
and she offered to help him
get out of debt,
get out of debt,
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她提出要帮助他还上负债。
08:24
so for the next year, he turned
his paychecks over to Mary,
his paychecks over to Mary,
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所以之后的一年，
他把自己的薪水上交给Mary，
他把自己的薪水上交给Mary，
08:28
and she got him out of debt.
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然后她帮他走出了负债困境。
08:30
George was actually an alcoholic
when they married, and Mary knew it.
when they married, and Mary knew it.
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事实上，他们结婚时，George 是个酒鬼，
而 Mary 也知道此事。
而 Mary 也知道此事。
08:35
At some point in their marriage,
he says he consumed
he says he consumed
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在婚姻生活中的一段日子里，
08:38
54 beers in one day.
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他说自己可以一天喝下 54 瓶啤酒。
08:41
Another time, when he was drunk,
he threatened to kill Mary
he threatened to kill Mary
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还有一次，他喝醉了，
曾威胁要杀了 Mary 和她的两个孩子。
曾威胁要杀了 Mary 和她的两个孩子。
08:44
and her two kids,
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08:45
but they escaped and a SWAT team
was called to the house.
was called to the house.
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她们逃走了，找了特警队来家里。
08:50
Amazingly, Mary took him back,
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令人惊讶的是，Mary 把他从深渊里拉了上来，
08:52
and eventually things got better.
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最后，一切都变好了。
08:54
George has been involved
in Alcoholics Anonymous
in Alcoholics Anonymous
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George 参加了匿名戒酒互助会，
08:57
and hasn't had a drink in 36 years.
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而且他已经 36 年没有再喝酒了。
09:00
(Music)
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（音乐）
09:01
At the end of the day,
after we left Sun City,
after we left Sun City,
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那天结束时，
我们离开了太阳城之后，
我们离开了太阳城之后，
09:04
I told Alec that I didn't actually think
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我对 Alec 说，
实际上，我没觉得这些夫妇的相遇
本身有多么有趣。
本身有多么有趣。
09:06
that the stories of how these couples met
were all that interesting.
were all that interesting.
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09:10
What was more interesting
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其实更加有趣的是，
09:12
was how they managed to stay together.
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他们如何一直生活在一起。
09:16
AS: They all had this beautiful
quality of endurance,
quality of endurance,
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Alec Soth: 他们都拥有忍耐这种美好品质，
09:20
but that was true of the singles, too.
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然而，单身人士也是如此。
09:23
The world is hard,
and the singles were out there
and the singles were out there
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俗世艰难，
单身者独自在那，
单身者独自在那，
09:26
trying to connect with other people,
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尝试与他人接触。
09:29
and the couples
were holding onto each other
were holding onto each other
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而夫妻在经历岁月后，
09:31
after all these decades.
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依旧紧握彼此。
09:35
My favorite pictures on this trip
were of Joe and Roseanne.
were of Joe and Roseanne.
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这趟旅程中我最爱的照片，
是 Joe 和 Roseanne 的。
是 Joe 和 Roseanne 的。
09:39
Now, by the time we met Joe and Roseanne,
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在我们遇到 Joe 和 Roseanne 时，
09:41
we'd gotten in the habit of asking couples
if they had an old wedding photograph.
if they had an old wedding photograph.
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我们习惯于问夫妇俩有没有一张老结婚照。
09:46
In their case, they simultaneously
pulled out of their wallets
pulled out of their wallets
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对此，他们俩同时从钱包里
拿出了一模一样的照片。
拿出了一模一样的照片。
09:51
the exact same photograph.
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我问我自己，哪一个更美呢？
09:56
What's more beautiful,
I thought to myself,
I thought to myself,
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09:59
this image of a young couple
who has just fallen in love
who has just fallen in love
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是这张年轻夫妻刚刚坠入爱河的照片？
10:03
or the idea of these two people
holding onto this image for decades?
holding onto this image for decades?
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还是二人紧握这张照片度过如此多年？
10:10
Thank you.
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谢谢。
10:12
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Stacey Baker - Photo editorStacey Baker assigns photography for the wide-ranging vision of the weekly New York Times Magazine.
Why you should listen
Stacey Baker is a photo editor at The New York Times Magazine. She assigns and produces photography for the weekly publication on topics as varied as sports, politics, religion and pop culture. She works with an array of photographers from all over the world, including photojournalists and portrait, fine-art and conceptual photographers. These include Alec Soth, Damon Winter, Lars Tunbjork, Stephanie Sinclair, Nadav Kander and Katy Grannan. She is a former director of photography at More Magazine.
More profile about the speakerStacey Baker | Speaker | TED.com
Alec Soth - Photographer
Alec Soth makes large-scale projects that are as much about dreams and heartache as they are about charting the landscape of Middle America.
Why you should listen
Alec Soth is a photographer born and based in Minnesota. He has published several books, including Sleeping by the Mississippi, Niagara and Broken Manual. The New York Times once wrote that Soth has made a "photographic career out of finding chemistry with strangers." His editorial work routinely appears in The New York Times Magazine, he is a member of the Magnum photo agency, and his work was featured in the Whitney Biennial in 2004.
In 2008, Soth started his own experimental publishing company, Little Brown Mushroom, that explores the possibilities of combining images and text. After publishing seven issues of his own newspaper, Soth compiled this work into his latest monograph, Songbook.
Alec Soth | Speaker | TED.com