TEDxStanford
Baba Shiv: Sometimes it's good to give up the driver's seat
Baba Shiv: Ás veces é bo ceder o mando.
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Ao longo dos anos, as investigacións revelaron unha característica ilóxica sobre a natureza humana: ás veces, ter demasiadas opcións fainos sentir peor. Isto incluso pode aplicarse no tocante a tratamentos médicos. Baba Shiv fala sobre un estudo que mide como as eleccións nos levan á dúbida, e suxire que ceder o mando é a mellor opción, especialmente en cuestións de vida ou morte.
Baba Shiv - Neuroeconomist
Baba Shiv studies how “liking” and “wanting” shape the choices we make, and what that means in the world of marketing. Full bio
Baba Shiv studies how “liking” and “wanting” shape the choices we make, and what that means in the world of marketing. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
Vou comezar por relatar un momento triste
00:16
I want to start on a slightly somber note.
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00:19
Two thousand and seven, five years ago,
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2007. Hai cinco anos
00:23
my wife gets diagnosed with breast cancer,
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á miña muller diagnosticáronlle
cancro de mama.
cancro de mama.
00:26
stage IIB.
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Estadio IIB
[este non é un sitio agradable]
00:29
Now, looking back, the most harrowing
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Agora, botando a vista atrás,
dámonos conta de que o peor daquilo
dámonos conta de que o peor daquilo
00:31
part of that experience
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00:32
was not just the hospital visits --
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non só foron as visitas ao hospital,
00:34
these were very painful for my wife, understandably so.
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coas que a miña muller sufría moito,
o que é comprensible.
o que é comprensible.
00:38
It was not even the initial shock of knowing
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Nin sequera o foi o duro golpe
de saber que padecía cancro
de saber que padecía cancro
00:39
that she had breast cancer, just 39 years old,
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con tan só 39 anos
00:41
absolutely no history of cancer in her family.
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e sen ningún antecedente na familia.
A parte máis angustiosa e atroz
de toda esta experiencia
de toda esta experiencia
00:46
The most horrifying and agonizing part
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00:49
of the whole experience was we were making
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foi que tivemos que tomar decisión
tras decisión, tras decisión.
tras decisión, tras decisión.
00:51
decisions after decisions after decisions
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00:53
that were being thrust upon us.
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Deixábannos elixir.
00:55
Should it be a mastectomy? Should it be a lumpectomy?
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Deberíase realizar unha mastectomía?
Ou debería ser unha tumorectomía?
Ou debería ser unha tumorectomía?
00:58
Should it be a more aggressive form of treatment,
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Deberíase aplicar
un tratamento máis agresivo
un tratamento máis agresivo
01:01
given that it was stage IIB?
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dado que se trataba dun estadio IIB?
01:03
With all the side effects?
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Con tódolos efectos secundarios?
01:04
Or should it be a less aggressive form of treatment?
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Ou debería aplicarse
un tratamento menos agresivo?
un tratamento menos agresivo?
01:07
And these were being pressed upon us
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Os médicos deixábano na nosa man.
01:09
by the doctors.
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01:12
Now, you could ask this question,
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Cabería preguntarse
01:13
why were the doctors doing this?
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por qué fan isto os médicos.
01:15
Now, a simplistic answer would be,
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Unha resposta simplista sería
que o fan porque queren
protexerse no ámbito legal.
protexerse no ámbito legal.
01:16
the doctors are doing this because they want to protect themselves legally.
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01:21
I think that is too simplistic.
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Creo que iso é demasiado simplista.
01:23
These are well-meaning doctors,
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Son médicos ben intencionados;
01:24
some of them have gone on to become very good friends.
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algúns mesmo chegaron
a converterse en moi bos amigos.
a converterse en moi bos amigos.
01:26
They probably were simply following the wisdom
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Probablemente só seguían esa sabedoría
01:28
that has come down the ages, this adage that when you're making decisions,
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acumulada desde hai moito,
esa máxima que di que,
á hora de tomar decisións,
á hora de tomar decisións,
01:32
especially decisions of importance,
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sobre todo as importantes,
01:34
it's best to be in charge, it's best to be in control,
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é mellor estar ao mando, ter o temón,
01:37
it's best to be in the driver's seat.
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ter o control da situación.
01:40
And we were certainly in the driver's seat,
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Dende logo que tiñamos o control,
01:42
making all these decisions, and let me tell you,
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tomando tódalas decisións.
Déixenme dicirlles que,
se algún de vostedes viviu isto,
se algún de vostedes viviu isto,
01:44
if some of you had been there,
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01:46
it was a most agonizing and harrowing experience.
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foi a peor e máis tormentosa
das experiencias.
das experiencias.
01:50
Which got me thinking.
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Todo isto fíxome pensar.
01:51
I said, is there any validity to
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Hai algunha validez no dito
01:53
this whole adage that when you're making decisions,
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de que cando se toman decisións
01:56
it's best to take the driver's seat,
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é mellor ter o control da situación,
01:59
be in charge, be in control?
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ter o mando, ter o temón?
02:00
Or are there contexts where we're far better off
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Ou hai situacións nas que é moito mellor
02:03
taking the passenger's seat and have someone else drive?
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apartarse para un lado
e deixar que outros
tomen as decisións por nós?
tomen as decisións por nós?
02:07
For example, a trusted financial advisor,
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Por exemplo,
un asesor financeiro en que confíen,
un asesor financeiro en que confíen,
02:08
could be a trusted doctor, etc.
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un médico de confianza, etc.
02:11
And since I study human decision making,
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Xa que estudo o xeito de tomar decisións,
02:14
I said, I'm going to run some studies
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decidín levar a cabo novas investigacións
02:17
to find some answers.
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para dar coas respostas.
Hoxe vou compartir con vostedes
un destes estudos.
un destes estudos.
02:18
And I'm going to share one of these studies with you today.
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02:20
So, imagine that all of you are participants in the study.
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Imaxinen que todos participan nel.
02:25
I want to tell you that what you're going to do in the study is
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Vou dicirlles o que teñen que facer
para participar:
para participar:
02:28
you're going to drink a cup of tea.
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teñen que tomar un té.
02:30
If you're wondering why, I'll tell you why in a few seconds from now.
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Estaranse preguntando o porqué,
e saberano nuns intres.
e saberano nuns intres.
02:35
You are going to solve a series of puzzles,
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Teñen que resolver
unha serie de crebacabezas
unha serie de crebacabezas
02:37
and I'm going to show you examples of these puzzles momentarily.
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que lles vou amosar en breve.
02:41
And the more puzzles you solve,
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Cantos máis resolvan,
02:43
the greater the chances that you'll win some prizes.
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máis posibilidades teñen
de gañar un premio.
de gañar un premio.
02:46
Now, why do you have to consume the tea?
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Así que, por que deben tomar o té?
Por que?
Ten moito sentido:
Ten moito sentido:
02:48
Why? Because it makes a lot of sense.
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02:50
In order to solve these puzzles effectively,
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Se o pensan, para resolver os crebacabezas
dun xeito eficaz,
dun xeito eficaz,
02:53
if you think about it, your mind needs to be in two states simultaneously.
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as súas cabezas precisan estar
simultaneamente en dous estados, non?
simultaneamente en dous estados, non?
02:56
Right? It needs to be alert,
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Precisan estar alerta,
02:59
for which caffeine is very good.
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para o que a cafeína é moi boa.
03:02
Simultaneously, it needs to be calm.
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Pero ao mesmo tempo precisan
estar tranquilos,
estar tranquilos,
non nerviosos, senón calmados,
03:05
Not agitated, calm. For which chamomile is very good.
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para o que a macela é moi boa.
03:11
Now comes the between-subjects design,
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Agora vén a proba
entre diversos participantes:
entre diversos participantes:
o test AB, a proba AB.
03:14
the AB design, the AB testing.
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03:15
So what I'm going to do is randomly assign you
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Vounos distribuír
aleatoriamente en dous grupos
aleatoriamente en dous grupos
03:17
to one of two groups.
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Imaxinen unha liña imaxinaria por aquí
03:19
So imagine that there is an imaginary line out here,
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de modo que esta parte será o grupo A
03:22
so everyone here will be group A,
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03:25
everyone out here will be group B.
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e esta outra será o grupo B.
03:27
Now, for you folks, what I'm going to do is
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Agora a vostedes vou amosarlles
estes dous tés
estes dous tés
03:30
I'm going to show you these two teas,
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03:32
and I'm asking you, I'll go ahead and ask you,
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e preguntareilles cal deles prefiren.
03:34
to choose your tea. So you can choose which of the two tea you want.
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Poden escoller o que queiran.
03:37
You can decide, what is your mental state:
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Poden decidir cal é o seu estado mental,
03:39
Okay, I'm going to choose the caffeinated tea,
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é dicir, elixir o té con cafeína
03:41
I'm going to choose the chamomile tea.
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ou elixir a macela.
03:43
So you're going to be in charge,
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Así que terán o temón, o control,
03:44
you're going to be in control, you're going to be in the driver's seat.
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poderán elixir o que prefiran.
03:48
You folks, I'm going to show you these two teas,
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A vostedes, amigos, ensinareilles
estes dous tés,
estes dous tés,
03:51
but you don't have a choice.
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pero vostedes non terán elección.
03:53
I'm going to give you one of these two teas,
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Vou darlles un deles,
03:55
and keep in mind, I'm going to pick one of these
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e recorden que escollerei un destes dous
03:58
two teas at random for you.
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aleatoriamente para vostedes.
04:00
And you know that.
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E sábeno.
04:01
So if you think about it, this is an extreme case scenario,
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Así que se o pensan,
esta é unha situación extrema
esta é unha situación extrema
porque no mundo real,
04:04
because in the real world,
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04:05
whenever you are taking passenger's seat,
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cando un deixa a alguén tomar decisións,
04:07
very often the driver is going to be someone you trust,
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normalmente esa persoa
é alguén da súa confianza,
é alguén da súa confianza,
un experto, etc.
04:10
an expert, etc. So this is an extreme case scenario.
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Así que esta é unha situación extrema.
[Grupo A: Escolle o té]
[Grupo B: Danllo]
[Grupo B: Danllo]
04:14
Now, you're all going to consume the tea.
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Agora tomarán todos o té.
Imaxinen que o están a tomar,
04:19
So imagine that you are taking the tea now,
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04:21
we'll wait for you to finish the tea.
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esperaremos a que o rematen.
04:23
We'll give another five minutes for the ingredient to have its effects.
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Deixaremos outros cinco minutos
para que faga o efecto desexado.
para que faga o efecto desexado.
04:27
Now you're going to have 30 minutes to solve 15 puzzles.
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Agora terán 30 minutos
para resolver 15 crebacabezas.
para resolver 15 crebacabezas.
04:32
Here's an example of the puzzle you're going to solve.
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Este é un exemplo dos que terán que facer.
04:35
Anyone in the audience want to take a stab?
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Algún de vostedes quere probar?
04:38
(Audience: Pulpit.) Baba Shiv: Whoa!
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Moza: 'Púlpito'
Baba Shiv: Guau! Ben.
Baba Shiv: Guau! Ben.
04:40
Okay, that's cool.
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Iso estivo ben.
04:41
Yeah, so what we do if we had you, who will get the answer,
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O que fariamos con vostede,
que deu a resposta
que deu a resposta
04:44
as a participant, we would have calibrated the difficulty level
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como partícipe do estudo,
sería calibrar o nivel de dificultade
dos crebacabezas
con relación á súa experiencia.
con relación á súa experiencia.
04:48
of the puzzles to your expertise.
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04:50
Because we want these puzzles to be difficult.
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Porque queremos que
os crebacabezas sexan difíciles.
os crebacabezas sexan difíciles.
04:52
These are tricky puzzles because your first instinct
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Estes son complexos,
porque o primeiro que nos vén á cabeza
é dicir 'tulipán'.
é dicir 'tulipán'.
04:55
is to say "tulip," and then you have to unstick yourself.
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E logo hai que corrixirse, non?
04:59
Right? So these have been calibrated to your level of expertise.
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Estes foron calibrados
tendo en conta o seu nivel
tendo en conta o seu nivel
05:03
Because we want this to be difficult, and I'll tell you why momentarily.
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porque o que queremos
é que sexan difíciles.
é que sexan difíciles.
Direilles por qué nuns intres.
05:07
Now, here's another example.
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Este é outro exemplo.
05:09
Anyone? It's much more difficult.
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Alguén?
Este é moito máis difícil.
Este é moito máis difícil.
05:11
(Audience: Embark.) BS: Yeah, wow. Okay.
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Mozo: 'Embarcar'
Baba: Si, guau! Ben
Baba: Si, guau! Ben
Si, este tamén é difícil.
05:14
So, yeah, so this is again difficult.
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Dirán kamber, logo maker, e todo iso,
05:16
You will say "kambar," then you will have to go, "maker,"
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05:17
and all that, and then you can unstick yourself.
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E logo corrixiranse.
05:19
Okay, so you have 30 minutes now to solve these 15 puzzles.
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Así que agora teñen 30 minutos
para resolver estes 15 crebacabezas.
para resolver estes 15 crebacabezas.
05:24
Now, the question we're asking here
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Agora, o que nos preguntamos
é, en termos de resultados,
é, en termos de resultados,
05:26
is in terms of the outcome,
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05:28
in terms of the number of puzzles solved,
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que veñen dados polo número
de crebacabezas resoltos,
de crebacabezas resoltos,
05:30
will you in the driver's seat
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é se os que tomaron a decisión do té
acabarán resolvendo máis
acabarán resolvendo máis
05:33
end up solving more puzzles,
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05:35
because you are in control, you could decide which tea you will choose,
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porque son os que teñen o control,
05:38
or would you be better off,
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ou se serán vostedes os que o fagan.
05:40
in terms of the number of puzzles solved?
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05:43
And systemically what we will show,
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Sistematicamente, o que demostraremos
con varios estudos
con varios estudos
05:45
across a series of studies,
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é que os que se deixaron levar,
05:47
is that you, the passengers,
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05:49
even though the tea was picked for you at random,
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aínda tendo en conta que
o té se escollera ao azar,
o té se escollera ao azar,
05:53
will end up solving more puzzles than you, the drivers.
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resolverán máis crebacabezas
ca os que o elixiron.
ca os que o elixiron.
05:57
We also observe another thing,
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Tamén puidemos observar outra cousa
e é que vostedes, amigos,
non só resolveron un número menor,
non só resolveron un número menor,
06:00
and that is, you folks not only are solving fewer puzzles,
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06:02
you're also putting less juice into the task.
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senón que lle puxeron menos intención,
menor esforzo, foron menos persistentes...
menor esforzo, foron menos persistentes...
06:05
Less effort, you're less persistent, and so on.
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Como o sabemos?
06:08
How do you know that?
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Temos dúas formas obxectivas de medida.
06:09
Well we have two objective measures.
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Unha é: Canto tempo de media se emprega
intentando resolvelos?
intentando resolvelos?
06:12
One is, what is the time, on average, you're taking
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06:15
in attempting to solve these puzzles?
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06:17
You will spend less time compared to you.
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Vostedes empregarán menos
comparados con vostedes.
comparados con vostedes.
Outra é que vostedes teñen 30 minutos
para resolvelos todos pero:
para resolvelos todos pero:
06:20
Second, you have 30 minutes to solve these,
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06:22
are you taking the entire 30 minutes, or are you giving up
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Empregan os 30 minutos ou paran
antes de que se acabe o tempo?
antes de que se acabe o tempo?
06:24
before the 30 minutes elapse?
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06:26
You will be more likely to give up before the 30 minutes elapse compared to you.
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Vostedes teñen máis probabilidades
de abandonar antes de que acabe o tempo
de abandonar antes de que acabe o tempo
en comparación con vostedes.
06:31
So, you're putting in less juice, and therefore the outcome:
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Así que están dando menos de si,
polo que o resultado é
unha menor cantidade de enigmas resoltos.
unha menor cantidade de enigmas resoltos.
06:34
fewer puzzles solved.
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Isto lévanos a pensar:
Por que pasa isto?
Por que pasa isto?
06:37
Now, that brings us now to, why does this happen?
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E baixo que circunstancias, ou cando,
se producirán estes patróns de resultados
se producirán estes patróns de resultados
06:41
And under what situations, when would we see this pattern of results
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06:46
where the passenger is going to show better, more favorable outcomes
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nos que os que se deixan levar
obteñen mellores datos
obteñen mellores datos
06:50
compared to the driver?
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en comparación cos que non?
Todo está relacionado co enfrontamento
ao que eu chamo o INCA,
ao que eu chamo o INCA,
06:52
It all has to do with when you face what I call the INCA.
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06:57
It's an acronym that stands for
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que é o acrónimo para a natureza
da retroalimentación que se obtén
da retroalimentación que se obtén
06:59
the nature of the feedback you're getting after you've made the decision.
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unha vez que se toma unha decisión.
07:03
So, if you think about it, in this particular puzzle task,
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Así que se o pensan,
neste estudo en concreto,
neste estudo en concreto,
pero podería ser investindo na bolsa,
07:06
it could happen in investing in the stock market,
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07:08
very volatile out there, it could be the medical situation --
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que é moi volátil,
ou nunha situación médica,
07:10
the feedback here is immediate.
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a retroalimentación aquí é inmediata.
Saben a repercusión,
se resolven ou non os enigmas.
se resolven ou non os enigmas.
07:13
You know the feedback, whether you're solving the puzzles or not.
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07:17
Right? Second, it is negative.
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Por outra banda, é negativo.
07:19
Remember, the deck was stacked against you.
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Lembren que as cartas
estaban na súa contra
estaban na súa contra
07:22
In terms of the difficulty level of these puzzles.
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no tocante á dificultade dos crebacabezas.
07:24
And this can happen in the medical domain.
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Isto mesmo pode ocorrer
no campo da medicina.
no campo da medicina.
07:26
For example, very early on in the treatment,
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Por exemplo, nas primeiras
etapas do tratamento
etapas do tratamento
07:28
things are negative, the feedback, before things become positive.
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as cousas van mal,
antes de chegar a ir ben.
antes de chegar a ir ben.
07:32
Right? It can happen in the stock market.
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Pódelle ocorrer ao mercado de valores.
07:34
Volatile stock market, getting negative feedback that's also immediate.
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Un mercado volátil con resultados
negativos tamén é inmediato.
negativos tamén é inmediato.
07:37
And the feedback in all these cases is concrete.
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E a retroalimentación nestes casos
é concreta, inequívoca,
é concreta, inequívoca,
07:40
It's not ambiguous; you know if you've solved the puzzles or not.
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saben se resolveron
os crebacabezas ou non.
os crebacabezas ou non.
07:43
Now, the added one, apart from this immediacy,
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Ademais, á parte do resultado inmediato,
negativo e concreto,
negativo e concreto,
07:47
negative, this concreteness,
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07:51
now you have a sense of agency.
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teñen conciencia de control.
Eran responsables da súa decisión.
07:54
You were responsible for your decision.
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Así que que fan?
07:57
So what do you do?
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Céntranse na opción que non elixiron.
07:59
You focus on the foregone option.
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08:01
You say, you know what? I should have chosen the other tea.
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Pensan:
Sabes? Debín escoller o outro té.
Sabes? Debín escoller o outro té.
(Risas)
08:05
(Laughter)
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08:08
That casts your decision in doubt,
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Isto fai que poñan en dúbida
a súa decisión,
a súa decisión,
08:11
reduces the confidence you have in the decision,
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que non confíen nela,
08:14
reduces the confidence you have in the performance,
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nin no seu rendemento,
08:16
the performance in terms of solving the puzzles.
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no rendemento en relación
a resolver crebacabezas.
a resolver crebacabezas.
08:18
And therefore less juice into the task,
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Por iso, esfórzanse menos na tarefa,
08:20
fewer puzzles solved, a less favorable outcome compared to you folks.
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resolven menos enigmas
e obteñen peores resultados
en comparación cos seus compañeiros.
en comparación cos seus compañeiros.
08:25
And this can happen in the medical domain, if you think about it.
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E isto pode ocorrer no ámbito médico.
08:28
Right? A patient in the driver's seat, for example.
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O paciente é o que decide, por exemplo.
Menos esforzo, o que significa manterse
08:30
Less juice, which means keeping herself or himself
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08:33
less physically fit, physically active to hasten the recovery process,
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menos en forma, menos activo como para
acelerar o proceso de recuperación,
acelerar o proceso de recuperación,
que é o que se recomenda normalmente.
08:37
which is what is often advocated. You probably wouldn't do that.
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Probablemente non o farían.
Polo tanto, ás veces,
cando se enfrontan ao INCA,
cando se enfrontan ao INCA,
08:41
And therefore, there are times when you're facing the INCA,
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08:46
when the feedback is going to be immediate, negative,
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cando o resultado vai ser inmediato,
negativo, concreto
negativo, concreto
08:50
concrete, and you have the sense of agency,
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e teñen conciencia de control,
onde están mellor é a un lado,
deixándose guiar por outra persoa.
deixándose guiar por outra persoa.
08:53
where you're far better off taking the passenger's seat
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08:55
and have someone else drive.
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Comecei cun momento triste.
08:59
Now, I started off
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09:00
on the somber note.
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09:02
I want to finish up on a more upbeat note.
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Quero rematar cun máis alegre.
Pasaron xa cinco anos,
algo máis de cinco anos,
algo máis de cinco anos,
09:04
It has now been five years, slightly more than five years,
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09:07
and the good news, thank God,
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e a boa nova, grazas a Deus,
é que o cancro segue remitindo.
é que o cancro segue remitindo.
09:09
is that the cancer is still in remission.
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09:14
So it all ends well,
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Así que todo acaba ben.
09:16
but one thing I didn't mention was
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Unha cousa que non mencionei foi
que dende o principio do seu tratamento,
que dende o principio do seu tratamento,
09:19
that very early on into her treatment,
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09:22
my wife and I decided that we will take the passenger's seat.
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a miña muller e mais eu
decidimos deixarnos levar.
decidimos deixarnos levar.
09:26
And that made so much of a difference
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E iso marcou moito a diferenza
09:28
in terms of the peace of mind that came with that,
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en termos da tranquilidade
que nos fixo sentir.
que nos fixo sentir.
09:31
we could focus on her recovery.
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Puidemos centrarnos na súa recuperación.
09:33
We let the doctors make all the decisions,
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Deixamos que fosen os médicos
os que tomasen as decisións
os que tomasen as decisións
e cedémoslles o mando.
09:36
take the driver's seat.
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09:38
Thank you.
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Grazas.
(Aplausos)
09:40
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Baba Shiv - NeuroeconomistBaba Shiv studies how “liking” and “wanting” shape the choices we make, and what that means in the world of marketing.
Why you should listen
Does a bottle of wine’s price tag price affect the pleasure one experiences in buying and drinking it? Does getting immediate feedback on a choice lead a person to doubt their decision? Does being denied something make people pursue it more hotly while simultaneously liking it less? Over his academic career, Baba Shiv has researched these questions in neuroeconomics, winning awards like the William O’Dell prize for an article that made a significant, long-term contribution to marketing theory and practice. Two of Professor Shiv's publications have received the Citation of Excellence from Emerald Management Reviews, and his research has been been featured on "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" and on NPR's "Radiolab," as well as in the Financial Times, The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal.
A professor at Stanford's Graduate School of Busines , Shiv is the director of the Strategic Marketing Management Executive Program and teaches several popular MBA courses including “The Frinky Science of the Mind” and “Entrepreneurial Ventures in Luxury Markets.” He served as the editor of the Journal of Consumer Research and is also on the editorial boards of the Journal of Consumer Psychology, Journal of Retailing, Journal of Marketing and the Journal of Marketing Research.
Baba Shiv | Speaker | TED.com