ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Andrew Solomon - Writer
Andrew Solomon writes about politics, culture and psychology.

Why you should listen

Andrew Solomon is a writer, lecturer and Professor of Clinical Psychology at Columbia University. He is president of PEN American Center. He writes regularly for The New Yorker and the New York Times.

Solomon's newest book, Far and Away: Reporting from the Brink of Change, Seven Continents, Twenty-Five Years was published in April, 2016. His previous book, Far From the Tree: Parents, Children, and the Search for Identity won the National Book Critics Circle award for nonfiction, the Wellcome Prize and 22 other national awards. It tells the stories of parents who not only learn to deal with their exceptional children but also find profound meaning in doing so. It was a New York Times bestseller in both hardcover and paperback editions. Solomon's previous book, The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression, won the 2001 National Book Award for Nonfiction, was a finalist for the 2002 Pulitzer Prize and was included in The Times of London's list of one hundred best books of the decade. It has been published in twenty-four languages. Solomon is also the author of the novel A Stone Boat and of The Irony Tower: Soviet Artists in a Time of Glasnost.

Solomon is an activist in LGBT rights, mental health, education and the arts. He is a member of the boards of directors of the National LGBTQ Force and Trans Youth Family Allies. He is a member of the Board of Visitors of Columbia University Medical Center, serves on the National Advisory Board of the Depression Center at the University of Michigan, is a director of Columbia Psychiatry and is a member of the Advisory Board of the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance. Solomon also serves on the boards of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Yaddo and The Alex Fund, which supports the education of Romani children. He is also a fellow of Berkeley College at Yale University and a member of the New York Institute for the Humanities and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Solomon lives with his husband and son in New York and London and is a dual national. He also has a daughter with a college friend; mother and daughter live in Texas but visit often.


More profile about the speaker
Andrew Solomon | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxMet

Andrew Solomon: Depression, the secret we share

Andrew Solomon: Depressão, o segredo que compartilhamos

Filmed:
10,174,764 views

"O oposto de depressão não é felicidade, e sim vitalidade, e ela parecia fugir de mim naquele momento." Em uma palestra tão eloquente quanto devastadora, o escritor Andrew Solomon nos leva aos cantos mais escuros de sua mente, nos anos em que lutou contra a depressão. Isso o levou a uma reveladora jornada pelo mundo, entrevistando pessoas com depressão, descobrindo, para sua surpresa, que quanto mais ele falava, mais as pessoas queriam contar suas histórias. (Filmado no TEDxMet.)
- Writer
Andrew Solomon writes about politics, culture and psychology. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:15
"I felt a funeral in my brain,
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"Senti um féretro em meu cérebro,
00:19
and mourners to and fro
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E carpideiras indo e vindo
00:22
kept treading, treading till I felt
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A pisar, a pisar, até eu sonhar
00:24
that sense was breaking through.
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Meus sentidos fugindo.
00:27
And when they all were seated,
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E quando tudo se sentou,
00:29
a service, like a drum,
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O tambor de um ofício,
00:31
kept beating, beating, till I felt
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Bateu, bateu, até eu sentir
00:34
my mind was going numb.
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Inerte o meu juízo.
00:37
And then I heard them lift a box
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E eu as ouvi, erguida a tampa,
00:39
and creak across my soul
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Rangeram por minha alma com
00:41
with those same boots of lead again,
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Todo o chumbo dos pés, de novo,
00:45
then space began to toll,
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E o espaço dobrou,
00:48
as if the heavens were a bell
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Como se os céus fossem um sino
00:50
and being were an ear,
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E o ser apenas um ouvido,
00:52
and I, and silence, some strange race
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E eu e o silêncio, a estranha raça
00:55
wrecked, solitary, here.
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Só, naufragada, aqui.
00:58
Just then, a plank in reason broke,
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Partiu-se a tábua em minha mente,
01:01
and I fell down and down
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E eu fui cair de chão em chão,
01:05
and hit a world at every plunge,
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E em cada chão havia um mundo
01:07
and finished knowing then."
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E terminei sabendo, então.”
(Tradução: Augusto de Campos)
01:12
We know depression through metaphors.
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Conhecemos a depressão por metáforas.
01:15
Emily Dickinson was able to convey it in language,
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Emily Dickinson a convertia em linguagem,
01:19
Goya in an image.
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Goya, em imagem.
01:22
Half the purpose of art
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Metade do propósito da arte,
01:24
is to describe such iconic states.
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é descrever esses estados icônicos.
01:27
As for me, I had always thought myself tough,
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No meu caso, sempre pensei ser forte,
01:31
one of the people who could survive
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que sobreviveria,
01:33
if I'd been sent to a concentration camp.
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se fosse para um campo de concentração.
01:36
In 1991, I had a series of losses.
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Em 1991, passei por uma série de perdas.
01:39
My mother died,
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Minha mãe morreu,
01:41
a relationship I'd been in ended,
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vivi o fim de um relacionamento,
01:43
I moved back to the United States
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retornei aos Estados Unidos,
01:45
from some years abroad,
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após anos morando no exterior,
01:47
and I got through all of those experiences intact.
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e passei por tudo isso intacto.
01:50
But in 1994, three years later,
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Mas, em 1994, três anos depois,
01:53
I found myself losing interest in almost everything.
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perdi o interesse por quase tudo.
01:57
I didn't want to do any of the things
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Não queria fazer nada
01:59
I had previously wanted to do,
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do que fazia antes,
02:01
and I didn't know why.
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e não sabia o porquê.
02:03
The opposite of depression
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O oposto de depressão
02:05
is not happiness, but vitality,
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não é felicidade, e sim vitalidade,
02:08
and it was vitality
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e a vitalidade
02:10
that seemed to seep away from me in that moment.
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parecia fugir de mim naquele momento.
02:14
Everything there was to do
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Tudo que eu fazia
02:16
seemed like too much work.
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parecia ser trabalhoso demais.
02:18
I would come home
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Eu chegava em casa,
02:20
and I would see the red light
flashing on my answering machine,
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via a luz da secretária
eletrônica piscando,
02:23
and instead of being thrilled to hear from my friends,
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e não me animava a saber dos amigos.
02:25
I would think,
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Eu pensava:
02:27
"What a lot of people that is to have to call back."
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“Quanta gente para ligar de volta.”
02:30
Or I would decide I should have lunch,
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Ou decidia almoçar,
02:32
and then I would think, but
I'd have to get the food out
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e aí pensava em ter que pegar a comida,
02:35
and put it on a plate
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colocá-la no prato,
02:37
and cut it up and chew it and swallow it,
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cortá-la, mastigá-la e engoli-la.
02:41
and it felt to me like the Stations of the Cross.
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e me sentia em uma Via Crucis.
02:45
And one of the things that often gets lost
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Algo que sempre se esquece
02:47
in discussions of depression
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em discussões sobre depressão,
02:49
is that you know it's ridiculous.
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é que sabemos que isso é ridículo.
02:51
You know it's ridiculous while you're experiencing it.
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Sabemos disso, quando a vivenciamos.
02:54
You know that most people manage
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Sabemos que a maioria consegue
02:56
to listen to their messages and eat lunch
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ouvir as mensagens, almoçar,
02:58
and organize themselves to take a shower
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tomar banho
03:00
and go out the front door
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sair de casa,
03:02
and that it's not a big deal,
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e que não é nada demais.
03:03
and yet you are nonetheless in its grip
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Ainda assim, você fica inerte
03:06
and you are unable to figure out any way around it.
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e incapaz de pensar em uma saída.
03:10
And so I began to feel myself doing less
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Assim, comecei a sentir que agia menos,
03:15
and thinking less
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pensava menos,
03:17
and feeling less.
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e sentia menos.
03:19
It was a kind of nullity.
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Era uma espécie de anulação.
03:22
And then the anxiety set in.
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E assim, veio a ansiedade.
03:24
If you told me that I'd have to be
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Se me dissessem que eu ficaria
03:26
depressed for the next month,
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deprimido este mês, diria:
03:28
I would say, "As long I know it'll be
over in November, I can do it."
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“Desde que termine mês que vem, tudo bem.”
03:31
But if you said to me,
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Mas, se me dissessem:
03:32
"You have to have acute anxiety for the next month,"
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"Você terá ansiedade aguda por um mês,”
03:35
I would rather slit my wrist than go through it.
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eu preferiria cortar os pulsos.
03:38
It was the feeling all the time
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Era o sentimento constante,
03:40
like that feeling you have if you're walking
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como o de estar andando,
03:42
and you slip or trip
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escorregar ou tropeçar,
03:43
and the ground is rushing up at you,
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e o chão vir a seu encontro,
03:45
but instead of lasting half a
second, the way that does,
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mas em vez de um durar um segundo,
03:48
it lasted for six months.
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ele durou 6 meses.
03:50
It's a sensation of being afraid all the time
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É uma sensação de medo permanente,
03:53
but not even knowing what it is that you're afraid of.
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mas sem saber do que se tem medo.
03:57
And it was at that point that I began to think
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E foi aí que comecei a pensar
03:59
that it was just too painful to be alive,
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que era muito sofrido viver,
04:03
and that the only reason not to kill oneself
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e a única razão de não me matar,
04:06
was so as not to hurt other people.
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era a de não fazer os outros sofrerem.
04:09
And finally one day, I woke up
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Finalmente, um dia, eu acordei
04:12
and I thought perhaps I'd had a stroke,
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e pensei que tivera um AVC,
04:14
because I lay in bed completely frozen,
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porque estava deitado
na cama, paralisado,
04:16
looking at the telephone, thinking,
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olhando o telefone, pensando:
"Algo está errado e preciso
pedir socorro”,
04:18
"Something is wrong and I should call for help,"
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04:22
and I couldn't reach out my arm
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e não conseguia mover o braço
04:24
and pick up the phone and dial.
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e alcançar o telefone para ligar.
04:26
And finally, after four full hours
of my lying and staring at it,
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Após quatro longas horas,
imóvel, fixando o telefone,
04:30
the phone rang,
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ele tocou,
04:32
and somehow I managed to pick it up,
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e consegui atendê-lo.
04:34
and it was my father,
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Era meu pai,
04:36
and I said, "I'm in serious trouble.
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e falei: "Estou com um problema sério.
04:39
We need to do something."
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Precisamos fazer algo."
04:41
The next day I started with the medications
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Um dia depois, comecei com os medicamentos
04:44
and the therapy.
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e a terapia.
04:47
And I also started reckoning
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Comecei a me confrontar
04:49
with this terrible question:
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com a terrível pergunta:
04:51
If I'm not the tough person
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"Se não sou forte como pensara,
04:53
who could have made it
through a concentration camp,
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que sobreviveria a um
campo de concentração,
04:56
then who am I?
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então, quem sou eu?
04:57
And if I have to take medication,
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E se tenho que tomar medicamento,
04:59
is that medication making me more fully myself,
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ele fará com que eu seja eu mesmo,
05:03
or is it making me someone else?
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ou outra pessoa?
05:05
And how do I feel about it
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Como me sentirei
05:07
if it's making me someone else?
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se ele me tornar outra pessoa?"
05:09
I had two advantages as I went in to the fight.
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Ao entrar nessa luta,
eu tinha duas vantagens.
05:13
The first is that I knew that, objectively speaking,
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A de que sabia, objetivamente,
05:16
I had a nice life,
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que minha vida era agradável,
05:17
and that if I could only get well,
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e se ficasse bem,
05:19
there was something at the other end
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haveria algo do outro lado
05:21
that was worth living for.
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pelo qual valeria a pena viver.
05:23
And the other was that I had
access to good treatment.
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A outra, era a de ter acesso
a um bom tratamento.
05:26
But I nonetheless emerged and relapsed,
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Apesar disso, eu melhorava e recaía,
05:29
and emerged and relapsed,
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melhorava e recaía,
05:32
and emerged and relapsed,
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melhorava e recaía,
05:35
and finally understood
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e finalmente entendi
05:37
I would have to be on medication
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que tomaria medicamentos
05:39
and in therapy forever.
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e faria terapia para sempre.
05:41
And I thought, "But is it a chemical problem
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Pensei: "É um problema químico
05:44
or a psychological problem?
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ou psicológico?
05:45
And does it need a chemical cure
or a philosophical cure?"
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Precisa de cura química ou filosófica?"
05:49
And I couldn't figure out which it was.
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E não entendia qual seria.
05:51
And then I understood that actually,
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Percebi que, na verdade,
05:54
we aren't advanced enough in either area
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não avançamos muito nessas áreas
05:56
for it to explain things fully.
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para sabermos com precisão.
05:58
The chemical cure and the psychological cure
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Tanto a cura química como a psicológica
06:01
both have a role to play,
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têm seu papel.
06:03
and I also figured out that depression was something
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Também pensei que a depressão era algo
06:06
that was braided so deep into us
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que estava entranhado tão fundo em nós
06:09
that there was no separating it
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que não havia uma separação
06:10
from our character and personality.
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entre caráter e personalidade.
06:13
I want to say that the treatments we have
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Os tratamentos que temos
06:15
for depression are appalling.
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para depressão são lamentáveis.
06:17
They're not very effective.
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Não são muito eficazes,
06:19
They're extremely costly.
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são extremamente caros,
06:21
They come with innumerable side effects.
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provocam inúmeros efeitos colaterais.
06:24
They're a disaster.
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São um desastre.
06:25
But I am so grateful that I live now
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Mas sou grato por viver hoje,
06:28
and not 50 years ago,
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e não 50 anos atrás,
06:30
when there would have been almost nothing
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quando quase nada
06:32
to be done.
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podia ser feito.
06:33
I hope that 50 years hence,
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Espero que daqui a 50 anos,
06:36
people will hear about my treatments
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ao saberem do meu tratamento,
06:37
and be appalled that anyone endured
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as pessoas se espantem
06:40
such primitive science.
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com ciência tão primitiva.
06:42
Depression is the flaw in love.
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Depressão é a imperfeição no amor.
06:47
If you were married to someone and thought,
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Se você fosse casado e pensasse:
06:50
"Well, if my wife dies, I'll find another one,"
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"Se minha esposa morrer,
encontrarei outra",
06:54
it wouldn't be love as we know it.
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não seria amor como o conhecemos.
06:57
There's no such thing as love
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Amor não existe
06:59
without the anticipation of loss,
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sem a antecipação da perda,
07:01
and that specter of despair
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e esse espectro do desespero
07:04
can be the engine of intimacy.
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pode ser o motor da intimidade.
07:08
There are three things people tend to confuse:
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Há três coisas que tendemos a confundir:
07:11
depression, grief and sadness.
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depressão, sentimento de luto e tristeza.
07:14
Grief is explicitly reactive.
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O luto é explicitamente reativo.
07:18
If you have a loss and you feel incredibly unhappy,
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Se você vive uma perda,
sente-se muito infeliz,
07:21
and then, six months later,
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e, seis meses depois,
07:22
you are still deeply sad, but
you're functioning a little better,
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você ainda está muito triste,
mas um pouco melhor,
07:25
it's probably grief,
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provavelmente, é luto.
07:27
and it will probably ultimately resolve itself
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e provavelmente se resolverá
07:29
in some measure.
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de alguma forma.
07:31
If you experience a catastrophic loss,
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Se você vivencia uma perda catastrófica,
07:34
and you feel terrible,
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sente-se péssimo,
07:35
and six months later you can barely function at all,
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e, seis meses depois, continua muito mal,
07:38
then it's probably a depression that was triggered
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talvez seja depressão desencadeada
07:40
by the catastrophic circumstances.
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pelas circunstâncias catastróficas.
07:43
The trajectory tells us a great deal.
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A trajetória nos diz muito.
07:47
People think of depression as being just sadness.
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As pessoas pensam em
depressão apenas como tristeza.
07:50
It's much, much too much sadness,
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Ela é excesso de tristeza,
07:52
much too much grief
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excesso de luto,
07:54
at far too slight a cause.
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por uma causa qualquer.
07:57
As I set out to understand depression,
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Ao me preparar para entender a depressão,
08:00
and to interview people who had experienced it,
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e entrevistar quem a vivera,
08:02
I found that there were people who seemed
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percebi que havia gente que parecia
08:05
on the surface to have what sounded like
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à beira de ter
08:07
relatively mild depression
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uma depressão branda,
08:09
who were nonetheless utterly disabled by it.
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e mesmo assim, ficava
incapacitada por ela.
08:13
And there were other people who had what sounded
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E outros tinham algo
08:15
as they described it
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descrito como depressão terrivelmente severa,
08:16
like terribly severe depression
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08:18
who nonetheless had good lives in the interstices
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que viviam bem nos intervalos
08:21
between their depressive episodes.
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dos episódios depressivos.
08:23
And I set out to find out what it is
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Então, planejei descobrir
o que faz com que uns
08:26
that causes some people
193
494271
1603
08:27
to be more resilient than other people.
194
495874
2253
sejam mais resilientes que outros.
08:30
What are the mechanisms
195
498127
1559
Quais são os mecanismos
08:31
that allow people to survive?
196
499686
1844
que os permitem sobreviver?
08:33
And I went out and I interviewed person after person
197
501530
3169
E fui entrevistando pessoas
08:36
who was suffering with depression.
198
504699
2175
que sofriam de depressão.
08:38
One of the first people I interviewed
199
506874
1951
Uma das primeiras entrevistadas,
08:40
described depression
200
508825
1881
descreveu a depressão
08:42
as a slower way of being dead,
201
510706
3261
como um meio mais lento de morrer,
08:45
and that was a good thing for me to hear early on
202
513967
2124
e foi bom ouvir isso logo no início
08:48
because it reminded me
203
516091
1366
porque me fez lembrar
08:49
that that slow way of being dead
204
517457
1999
que esse jeito lento de morrer
08:51
can lead to actual deadness,
205
519456
2035
pode levar à morte real,
08:53
that this is a serious business.
206
521491
2004
que é um negócio sério.
08:55
It's the leading disability worldwide,
207
523495
2659
É a principal doença
incapacitante do mundo,
08:58
and people die of it every day.
208
526154
3030
e as pessoas morrem disso todos os dias.
09:01
One of the people I talked to
209
529184
1769
Conversei com uma pessoa,
09:02
when I was trying to understand this
210
530953
1974
quando tentava entender isso,
09:04
was a beloved friend
211
532927
1668
uma amiga querida
09:06
who I had known for many years,
212
534595
2018
que conhecia há anos,
09:08
and who had had a psychotic episode
213
536613
2542
e tivera um surto psicótico
09:11
in her freshman year of college,
214
539155
1904
no primeiro ano de faculdade,
09:13
and then plummeted into a horrific depression.
215
541059
3056
e mergulhou em uma depressão horrível.
09:16
She had bipolar illness,
216
544115
1426
Ela era bipolar,
09:17
or manic depression, as it was then known.
217
545541
2643
ou maníaco-depressiva,
como assim era chamado.
09:20
And then she did very well
218
548184
2044
E ela ficou muito bem
09:22
for many years on lithium,
219
550228
1708
por anos, tomando lítio,
09:23
and then eventually,
220
551936
1375
e depois,
09:25
she was taken off her lithium
221
553311
1960
parou de tomá-lo,
09:27
to see how she would do without it,
222
555271
1835
para ver como ficaria sem ele,
09:29
and she had another psychosis,
223
557106
1975
e teve outro surto,
09:31
and then plunged into the worst depression
224
559081
2338
e se afundou na maior depressão
09:33
that I had ever seen
225
561419
1872
que eu já vira.
09:35
in which she sat in her parents' apartment,
226
563291
3015
Ela ficava no apartamento dos pais,
09:38
more or less catatonic, essentially without moving,
227
566306
3077
meio catatônica, imóvel,
09:41
day after day after day.
228
569383
2482
dia após dia.
09:43
And when I interviewed her about
that experience some years later --
229
571865
3217
Eu a entrevistei sobre essa
experiência, anos depois...
09:47
she's a poet and psychotherapist
named Maggie Robbins —
230
575082
3331
Ela é poeta e psicoterapeuta,
chama-se Maggie Robbins...
09:50
when I interviewed her, she said,
231
578413
3233
Quando a entrevistei, ela disse:
09:53
"I was singing 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone'
232
581646
3384
"Eu cantava 'Where Have
All The Flowers Gone'
09:57
over and over to occupy my mind.
233
585030
3210
o tempo todo, para ocupar minha mente.
10:00
I was singing to blot out the
things my mind was saying,
234
588240
3135
Cantava para expulsar
o que minha mente dizia,
10:03
which were, 'You are nothing. You are nobody.
235
591375
4490
que era: ‘Você não é nada.
Você não é ninguém.
10:07
You don't even deserve to live.'
236
595865
2826
Nem merece viver.'
10:10
And that was when I really started thinking
237
598691
2178
E comecei seriamente a pensar
10:12
about killing myself."
238
600869
2213
em me matar."
10:15
You don't think in depression
239
603082
1908
Com depressão, você não pensa
10:16
that you've put on a gray veil
240
604990
2137
que pôs um véu cinza
10:19
and are seeing the world through the haze
241
607127
1980
e vê o mundo através da névoa
10:21
of a bad mood.
242
609107
1894
do mal humor.
10:23
You think that the veil has been taken away,
243
611001
2720
Você pensa que o véu foi retirado,
10:25
the veil of happiness,
244
613721
1922
o véu da felicidade,
10:27
and that now you're seeing truly.
245
615643
2424
e que agora você vê de verdade.
10:30
It's easier to help schizophrenics who perceive
246
618067
2964
É mais fácil ajudar esquizofrênicos
que percebem
10:33
that there's something foreign inside of them
247
621031
1811
existir algo estranho neles
10:34
that needs to be exorcised,
248
622842
2187
que precisa ser exorcizado,
10:37
but it's difficult with depressives,
249
625029
2164
mas é difícil com deprimidos,
10:39
because we believe we are seeing the truth.
250
627193
3847
pois acreditamos ver a verdade.
10:43
But the truth lies.
251
631040
2947
Mas a verdade mente...
10:45
I became obsessed with that sentence:
252
633987
1998
Fiquei obcecado com essa frase:
10:47
"But the truth lies."
253
635985
2375
"Mas a verdade mente."
10:50
And I discovered, as I talked to depressive people,
254
638360
2453
Descobri, ao conversar com deprimidos,
10:52
that they have many delusional perceptions.
255
640813
2682
que eles têm muitas percepções ilusórias.
10:55
People will say, "No one loves me."
256
643495
1667
Alguém diz: "Ninguém me ama."
10:57
And you say, "I love you,
257
645162
1651
E você diz: "Eu o amo,
10:58
your wife loves you, your mother loves you."
258
646813
2522
sua esposa o ama, sua mãe o ama."
11:01
You can answer that one pretty readily,
259
649335
1923
Você responde isso na hora,
11:03
at least for most people.
260
651258
1665
ao menos, a maioria.
11:04
But people who are depressed will also say,
261
652923
2267
Mas o deprimido também diz:
11:07
"No matter what we do,
262
655190
1705
"Não importa o que façamos,
11:08
we're all just going to die in the end."
263
656895
2273
vamos todos morrer, afinal."
11:11
Or they'll say, "There can be no true communion
264
659168
2203
Ou diz: "Não há comunhão verdadeira
11:13
between two human beings.
265
661371
1653
entre dois seres humanos.
11:15
Each of us is trapped in his own body."
266
663024
2576
Estamos presos em nosso próprio corpo.”
11:17
To which you have to say,
267
665600
1849
A quem você terá que dizer:
11:19
"That's true,
268
667449
1321
"É verdade,
11:20
but I think we should focus right now
269
668770
1818
mas agora devemos focar
11:22
on what to have for breakfast."
270
670588
1896
o que comer no café da manhã."
11:24
(Laughter)
271
672484
2185
(Risos)
11:26
A lot of the time,
272
674669
1669
Muitas vezes,
11:28
what they are expressing is not illness, but insight,
273
676338
2896
o que expressam não é
doença, e sim insight,
11:31
and one comes to think what's really extraordinary
274
679234
2657
e chegamos a pensar que o extraordinário
11:33
is that most of us know about
those existential questions
275
681891
2934
é que a maioria sabe dessas
perguntas existenciais
11:36
and they don't distract us very much.
276
684825
2290
e elas não nos distraem tanto assim.
11:39
There was a study I particularly liked
277
687115
2159
Gostei de um estudo,
11:41
in which a group of depressed
278
689274
1680
em que um grupo de deprimidos
11:42
and a group of non-depressed people
279
690954
1901
e um de não deprimidos
11:44
were asked to play a video game for an hour,
280
692855
2623
tinham que jogar videogame por uma hora,
11:47
and at the end of the hour,
281
695478
1813
e, ao final do tempo,
11:49
they were asked how many little monsters
282
697291
1651
respondiam quantos monstrinhos
11:50
they thought they had killed.
283
698942
1864
eles pensavam ter matado.
11:52
The depressive group was usually accurate
284
700806
2212
Os deprimidos tinham uma precisão
11:55
to within about 10 percent,
285
703018
2058
em torno de 10%,
11:57
and the non-depressed people
286
705076
1471
e os não deprimidos
11:58
guessed between 15 and 20 times as many
287
706547
3545
falaram um número 15 a 20 vezes maior
12:02
little monsters — (Laughter) —
288
710092
1742
de monstrinhos — (Risos) —
12:03
as they had actually killed.
289
711834
4111
do que o que tinham efetivamente matado.
12:07
A lot of people said, when I chose
to write about my depression,
290
715945
3066
Ao escrever sobre minha depressão, diziam
12:11
that it must be very difficult
291
719011
1769
que deve ser muito difícil
12:12
to be out of that closet, to have people know.
292
720780
3124
sair do armário, as pessoas saberem...
12:15
They said, "Do people talk to you differently?"
293
723904
2200
Perguntavam: "Falam diferente com você?"
12:18
And I said, "Yes, people talk to me differently.
294
726104
2072
E dizia: "Sim, falam diferente.
12:20
They talk to me differently insofar
295
728176
1914
Elas falam diferente, na medida
12:22
as they start telling me about their experience,
296
730090
2790
em que me contam suas experiências,
12:24
or their sister's experience,
297
732880
1835
ou a da irmã,
12:26
or their friend's experience.
298
734715
1774
ou do amigo.
12:28
Things are different because now I know
299
736489
2292
É diferente porque agora sei
12:30
that depression is the family secret
300
738781
2681
que depressão é o segredo de família
12:33
that everyone has.
301
741462
2077
que todo mundo tem."
12:35
I went a few years ago to a conference,
302
743539
3628
Há alguns anos, fui a uma conferência,
12:39
and on Friday of the three-day conference,
303
747167
2653
e, no primeiro dia do evento,
12:41
one of the participants took me aside, and she said,
304
749820
2891
uma participante me
chamou de lado e disse:
12:44
"I suffer from depression and
305
752711
3405
"Sofro de depressão
12:48
I'm a little embarrassed about it,
306
756116
2769
e fico um pouco envergonhada com isso,
12:50
but I've been taking this medication,
307
758885
2103
mas tomo esse medicamento,
12:52
and I just wanted to ask you what you think?"
308
760988
2948
e queria saber sua opinião."
12:55
And so I did my best to give
her such advice as I could.
309
763936
2834
Tentei aconselhá-la da melhor forma.
12:58
And then she said, "You know,
310
766770
1720
Então, ela disse: "Sabe,
13:00
my husband would never understand this.
311
768490
2791
meu marido jamais entenderia.
13:03
He's really the kind of guy to whom
this wouldn't make any sense,
312
771281
2573
Ele não entende o sentido disso,
13:05
so I just, you know, it's just between us."
313
773854
2867
então, sabe, fica só entre nós."
13:08
And I said, "Yes, that's fine."
314
776721
1786
E falei: "Certo, tudo bem."
13:10
On Sunday of the same conference,
315
778507
2109
No último dia da conferência,
13:12
her husband took me aside,
316
780616
3044
o marido dela me chamou de lado,
13:15
and he said, "My wife wouldn't think
317
783660
1694
e disse: "Minha esposa pensará
13:17
that I was really much of a guy if she knew this,
318
785354
2435
que não sou homem de verdade se souber
13:19
but I've been dealing with this depression
319
787789
2466
que estou lidando com depressão
13:22
and I'm taking some medication,
320
790255
1354
e tomo medicamento,
13:23
and I wondered what you think?"
321
791609
2505
e gostaria da sua opinião."
13:26
They were hiding
322
794114
1423
Eles escondiam
13:27
the same medication in two different places
323
795537
2215
medicamentos iguais em locais distintos
13:29
in the same bedroom.
324
797752
2645
do mesmo quarto.
13:32
And I said that I thought
325
800397
2021
Eu disse que pensava
13:34
communication within the marriage
326
802418
1684
que a comunicação no casamento
13:36
might be triggering some of their problems.
327
804102
2014
estava causando problemas.
13:38
(Laughter)
328
806116
4191
(Risos)
13:42
But I was also struck
329
810307
1655
Eu também fiquei surpreso
13:43
by the burdensome nature
330
811962
1806
pela natureza opressiva
13:45
of such mutual secrecy.
331
813768
2373
de tal segredo mútuo.
13:48
Depression is so exhausting.
332
816141
1885
A depressão é muito exaustiva.
13:50
It takes up so much of your time and energy,
333
818026
2768
Toma muito tempo e energia,
13:52
and silence about it,
334
820794
1504
e o silêncio
13:54
it really does make the depression worse.
335
822298
2731
agrava a depressão.
13:57
And then I began thinking about all the ways
336
825029
1733
E, comecei a pensar
sobre o que faz as pessoas melhorarem.
13:58
people make themselves better.
337
826762
1966
14:00
I'd started off as a medical conservative.
338
828728
2439
Comecei com a medicina conservadora.
14:03
I thought there were a few
kinds of therapy that worked,
339
831167
2372
Eu achava que havia algumas terapias
que funcionavam,
14:05
it was clear what they were --
340
833539
1809
estava claro quais eram...
14:07
there was medication,
341
835348
1644
havia medicamentos,
14:08
there were certain psychotherapies,
342
836992
1476
certas psicoterapias,
14:10
there was possibly electroconvulsive treatment,
343
838468
2445
talvez, tratamento eletroconvulsivo,
14:12
and that everything else was nonsense.
344
840913
2675
e que o restante era besteira.
14:15
But then I discovered something.
345
843588
1832
Então, descobri uma coisa.
14:17
If you have brain cancer,
346
845420
1752
Se você tem câncer no cérebro,
14:19
and you say that standing on your head
347
847172
1472
e diz que ficar de ponta-cabeça
14:20
for 20 minutes every morning makes you feel better,
348
848644
2995
20 minutos todo dia
faz você se sentir melhor,
14:23
it may make you feel better,
349
851639
1514
talvez se sinta melhor,
14:25
but you still have brain cancer,
350
853153
1588
mas ainda tem câncer,
14:26
and you'll still probably die from it.
351
854741
2289
e ainda poderá morrer.
14:29
But if you say that you have depression,
352
857030
2512
Mas se você diz que tem depressão,
14:31
and standing on your head for 20 minutes every day
353
859542
2105
e que ficar de ponta-cabeça de manhã
14:33
makes you feel better, then it's worked,
354
861647
2484
faz você melhorar, então, funcionou,
14:36
because depression is an illness of how you feel,
355
864131
2360
pois é a doença de como você se sente,
14:38
and if you feel better,
356
866491
1609
e se você se sente melhor,
14:40
then you are effectively not depressed anymore.
357
868100
2830
então, não está mais deprimido.
14:42
So I became much more tolerant
358
870930
2033
Assim, tornei-me mais tolerante
14:44
of the vast world of alternative treatments.
359
872963
2925
ao vasto mundo de
tratamentos alternativos.
14:47
And I get letters, I get hundreds of letters
360
875888
2384
E recebo cartas, centenas de cartas,
14:50
from people writing to tell me
about what's worked for them.
361
878272
2516
de gente que diz o que funciona.
14:52
Someone was asking me backstage today
362
880788
2201
Hoje, perguntaram-me nos bastidores
14:54
about meditation.
363
882989
1463
sobre meditação.
14:56
My favorite of the letters that I got
364
884452
2465
Minha carta favorita
14:58
was the one that came from a woman
365
886917
1474
é a de uma mulher
15:00
who wrote and said that she had tried therapy,
366
888391
2207
que disse que tentou terapia,
15:02
she had tried medication,
she had tried pretty much everything,
367
890598
2387
medicamentos, tentou quase tudo.
15:04
and she had found a solution
and hoped I would tell the world,
368
892985
2837
Achou uma solução e desejava
que o mundo soubesse:
15:07
and that was making little things from yarn.
369
895822
3812
fazer coisinhas de lã.
15:11
(Laughter)
370
899634
2999
(Risos)
15:14
She sent me some of them. (Laughter)
371
902633
3524
Ela me enviou algumas peças. (Risos)
15:18
And I'm not wearing them right now.
372
906157
3688
Não estou usando uma hoje.
15:21
I suggested to her that she also should look up
373
909845
2515
Sugeri que ela desse uma olhada
15:24
obsessive compulsive disorder in the DSM.
374
912360
4048
em comportamento obsessivo
compulsivo no manual.
15:28
And yet, when I went to look
at alternative treatments,
375
916408
3128
Ainda assim, ao pesquisar
tratamentos alternativos,
15:31
I also gained perspective on other treatments.
376
919536
2908
ganhei perspectiva sobre
vários tipos de tratamentos.
15:34
I went through a tribal exorcism in Senegal
377
922444
2903
Passei por um exorcismo tribal, no Senegal,
15:37
that involved a great deal of ram's blood
378
925347
2013
que envolvia sangue de carneiro,
15:39
and that I'm not going to detail right now,
379
927360
2062
e não entrarei em detalhes,
15:41
but a few years afterwards I was in Rwanda
380
929422
2000
mas, anos depois, fui à Ruanda
15:43
working on a different project,
381
931422
1758
num projeto diferente,
15:45
and I happened to describe
my experience to someone,
382
933180
2796
e descrevi minha experiência a alguém,
15:47
and he said, "Well, you know,
383
935976
1760
que disse: "Bem, sabe,
15:49
that's West Africa, and we're in East Africa,
384
937736
1820
aqui na África Oriental
15:51
and our rituals are in some ways very different,
385
939556
1834
os rituais são muito diferentes,
15:53
but we do have some rituals that have something
386
941390
2013
mas temos rituais com algo
15:55
in common with what you're describing."
387
943403
1987
em comum com o que descreveu."
15:57
And I said, "Oh." And he said, "Yes," he said,
388
945390
1663
Falei: "Oh". E ele: "Sim.
15:59
"but we've had a lot of trouble with
Western mental health workers,
389
947053
2642
Mas houve problemas
com profissionais da saúde do Ocidente,
16:01
especially the ones who came
right after the genocide."
390
949695
2757
os que vieram após o genocídio."
16:04
And I said, "What kind of trouble did you have?"
391
952452
2327
Eu disse: "Que tipo de problema?"
16:06
And he said, "Well,
392
954779
1546
Ele disse: "Bem,
16:08
they would do this bizarre thing.
393
956325
2664
eles faziam algo bizarro.
16:10
They didn't take people out in the sunshine
394
958989
1885
Ninguém tomava banho de sol
16:12
where you begin to feel better.
395
960874
1700
para se sentir melhor.
16:14
They didn't include drumming or music
to get people's blood going.
396
962574
3094
Não incluíam batuques
ou música para animá-los.
16:17
They didn't involve the whole community.
397
965668
1842
Não envolviam a comunidade.
16:19
They didn't externalize the depression
398
967510
1775
Não externavam a depressão
16:21
as an invasive spirit.
399
969285
1433
como um espírito invasor.
16:22
Instead what they did was they took people
400
970718
2631
Ao contrário, levavam as pessoas,
16:25
one at a time into dingy little rooms
401
973349
2628
uma a uma, para quartinhos escuros
16:27
and had them talk for an hour
402
975977
1343
e elas falavam por uma hora
16:29
about bad things that had happened to them."
403
977320
2230
sobre o que acontecera de ruim."
16:31
(Laughter) (Applause)
404
979550
5460
(Risos) (Aplausos)
16:37
He said, "We had to ask them to leave the country."
405
985010
2362
Falou: "Pedimos que
deixassem o país."
16:39
(Laughter)
406
987372
3057
(Risos)
16:42
Now at the other end of alternative treatments,
407
990429
2444
Na outra ponta dos
tratamentos alternativos...
16:44
let me tell you about Frank Russakoff.
408
992873
2035
vou falar sobre Frank Russakoff.
16:46
Frank Russakoff had the worst depression
409
994908
3053
Ele tinha a pior depressão
16:49
perhaps that I've ever seen in a man.
410
997961
2915
que eu talvez tenha visto em um homem.
16:52
He was constantly depressed.
411
1000876
1993
Ele estava sempre deprimido.
16:54
He was, when I met him, at a point at which
412
1002869
2141
Eu o conheci em uma época
16:57
every month he would have electroshock treatment.
413
1005010
3158
em que todo mês ele tinha
tratamento de choque.
17:00
Then he would feel sort of disoriented for a week.
414
1008168
2575
Ficava meio desorientado por uma semana.
17:02
Then he would feel okay for a week.
415
1010743
1803
Depois, ficava bem uma semana.
17:04
Then he would have a week of going downhill.
416
1012546
1700
Tinha outra semana de piora.
17:06
And then he would have another
electroshock treatment.
417
1014246
2685
E uma semana de tratamento de choque.
17:08
And he said to me when I met him,
418
1016931
1415
Quando o vi, ele disse:
17:10
"It's unbearable to go through my weeks this way.
419
1018346
2552
"É insuportável passar semanas assim.
17:12
I can't go on this way,
420
1020898
1507
Não aguento mais,
17:14
and I've figured out how I'm going to end it
421
1022405
2264
e já sei como acabar com isso
17:16
if I don't get better.
422
1024669
1557
se eu não melhorar.
17:18
But," he said to me, "I heard about a protocol
423
1026226
2708
Aí, ele disse: "Soube de um protocolo
17:20
at Mass General for a procedure called
424
1028934
2223
no hospital, um procedimento,
17:23
a cingulotomy, which is a brain surgery,
425
1031157
2026
cingulotomia, cirurgia no cérebro,
17:25
and I think I'm going to give that a try."
426
1033183
2571
e acho que vou tentar."
17:27
And I remember being amazed at that point
427
1035754
1954
Lembro de ter me espantado
17:29
to think that someone
428
1037708
1300
por pensar que alguém
17:31
who clearly had so many bad experiences
429
1039008
3221
com tantas experiências ruins,
17:34
with so many different treatments
430
1042229
1859
com tantos tratamentos,
17:36
still had buried in him somewhere enough optimism
431
1044088
3122
ainda tinha dentro de si algum otimismo
17:39
to reach out for one more.
432
1047210
2550
para almejar mais um.
17:41
And he had the cingulotomy,
433
1049760
2180
Ele fez a cingulotomia,
17:43
and it was incredibly successful.
434
1051940
2041
e foi incrivelmente bem sucedida.
17:45
He's now a friend of mine.
435
1053981
1493
Ele agora é meu amigo.
17:47
He has a lovely wife and two beautiful children.
436
1055474
3492
Tem uma esposa adorável
e dois filhos lindos.
17:50
He wrote me a letter the Christmas after the surgery,
437
1058966
2949
Ele me escreveu uma carta,
após a cirurgia,
17:53
and he said,
438
1061915
1189
e disse:
17:55
"My father sent me two presents this year,
439
1063104
2407
"Meu pai me deu dois presentes este ano.
17:57
First, a motorized C.D. rack from The Sharper Image
440
1065511
2602
Uma torre de CD, da "The Sharper Image",
18:00
that I didn't really need,
441
1068113
1421
de que eu não precisava,
18:01
but I knew he was giving it to me to celebrate
442
1069534
2097
mas sei que foi para comemorar o fato
18:03
the fact that I'm living on my own
443
1071631
1728
de eu viver por conta própria,
18:05
and have a job I seem to love.
444
1073359
2047
com um emprego que adoro.
18:07
And the other present
445
1075406
1561
O outro presente
18:08
was a photo of my grandmother,
446
1076967
1576
era uma foto da minha avó,
18:10
who committed suicide.
447
1078543
2252
que cometeu suicídio.
18:12
As I unwrapped it, I began to cry,
448
1080795
2935
Ao abrir o presente, comecei a chorar,
18:15
and my mother came over and said,
449
1083730
1880
e minha mãe disse:
18:17
'Are you crying because of the
relatives you never knew?'
450
1085610
3315
'Está chorando pelos parentes
que não conheceu?'
18:20
And I said, 'She had the same disease I have.'
451
1088925
4088
Falei: 'Ela teve a mesma doença que eu.'
18:25
I'm crying now as I write to you.
452
1093013
2581
Choro agora ao lhe escrever.
18:27
It's not that I'm so sad, but I get overwhelmed,
453
1095594
3595
Não estou muito triste,
e sim emocionado,
18:31
I think, because I could have killed myself,
454
1099189
2221
pois, poderia quase ter me matado,
18:33
but my parents kept me going,
455
1101410
1703
mas meu pais me deram força,
18:35
and so did the doctors,
456
1103113
1749
assim como os médicos,
18:36
and I had the surgery.
457
1104862
1854
e fiz a cirurgia.
18:38
I'm alive and grateful.
458
1106716
2815
Estou vivo e agradecido.
18:41
We live in the right time,
459
1109531
2260
Vivemos na época certa,
18:43
even if it doesn't always feel like it."
460
1111791
3879
mesmo que nem sempre pareça."
18:47
I was struck by the fact that depression
461
1115670
1897
Fiquei perplexo que a depressão
18:49
is broadly perceived to be
462
1117567
1725
seja amplamente entendida
18:51
a modern, Western, middle-class thing,
463
1119292
3537
como algo moderno, ocidental,
de classe média,
18:54
and I went to look at how it operated
464
1122829
2152
e fui ver como ela funciona
18:56
in a variety of other contexts,
465
1124981
2003
em vários outros contextos,
18:58
and one of the things I was most interested in
466
1126984
2119
e algo que me interessou muito
19:01
was depression among the indigent.
467
1129103
1790
foi a depressão entre indigentes.
19:02
And so I went out to try to look at
468
1130893
1781
Fui dar uma olhada
19:04
what was being done for
poor people with depression.
469
1132674
2580
no que se faz para pobres
com depressão.
19:07
And what I discovered is that poor people
470
1135254
2158
Descobri que eles
19:09
are mostly not being treated for depression.
471
1137412
2557
geralmente não são tratados de depressão.
19:11
Depression is the result of a genetic vulnerability,
472
1139969
2919
Depressão resulta
da vulnerabilidade genética,
19:14
which is presumably evenly
distributed in the population,
473
1142888
3158
distribuída igualitariamente na população,
19:18
and triggering circumstances,
474
1146046
1953
e circunstâncias desencadeadoras,
19:19
which are likely to be more severe
475
1147999
1903
que costumam ser mais severas
19:21
for people who are impoverished.
476
1149902
1875
em pessoas mais pobres.
19:23
And yet it turns out that if you have
477
1151777
2427
Se você tem uma vida agradável
19:26
a really lovely life but feel miserable all the time,
478
1154204
2140
mas se sente infeliz o tempo todo,
19:28
you think, "Why do I feel like this?
479
1156344
2000
pensa: "Por que me sinto assim?
19:30
I must have depression."
480
1158344
1669
Devo estar com depressão."
19:32
And you set out to find treatment for it.
481
1160013
1923
E busca tratamento.
19:33
But if you have a perfectly awful life,
482
1161936
2093
Mas, se tem uma vida horrível,
19:36
and you feel miserable all the time,
483
1164029
1867
e sente-se péssimo o tempo todo,
19:37
the way you feel is commensurate with your life,
484
1165896
2826
você se sente de acordo com sua vida,
19:40
and it doesn't occur to you to think,
485
1168722
1724
e não lhe ocorre pensar:
19:42
"Maybe this is treatable."
486
1170446
1783
"Talvez exista tratamento."
19:44
And so we have an epidemic in this country
487
1172229
3136
E assim temos uma epidemia neste país,
19:47
of depression among impoverished people
488
1175365
2913
de depressão entre os mais pobres
19:50
that's not being picked up
and that's not being treated
489
1178278
2512
que não é diagnosticada, tratada,
19:52
and that's not being addressed,
490
1180790
2056
e nem combatida,
19:54
and it's a tragedy of a grand order.
491
1182846
2200
o que é uma grande tragédia.
19:57
And so I found an academic
492
1185046
1488
Conheci uma acadêmica
19:58
who was doing a research project
493
1186534
1817
que fazia projeto de pesquisa
20:00
in slums outside of D.C.,
494
1188351
1741
em favelas nos arredores
de Washington,
20:02
where she picked up women who had
come in for other health problems
495
1190092
2997
com mulheres com outras queixas de saúde,
20:05
and diagnosed them with depression,
496
1193089
1779
e diagnosticava a depressão,
20:06
and then provided six months
of the experimental protocol.
497
1194868
3266
e dava-lhes seis meses
do protocolo experimental.
20:10
One of them, Lolly, came in,
498
1198134
2329
Uma delas, Lolly, chegou,
20:12
and this is what she said the day she came in.
499
1200463
2297
e eis o que disse...
20:14
She said, and she was a woman, by the way,
500
1202760
3395
Ela é uma mulher
20:18
who had seven children. She said,
501
1206155
2092
que teve sete filhos. Disse:
20:20
"I used to have a job but I had to give it up because
502
1208247
2651
"Eu tinha emprego, mas desisti dele
porque não conseguia sair de casa.
20:22
I couldn't go out of the house.
503
1210898
2060
20:24
I have nothing to say to my children.
504
1212958
2228
Não tenho assunto com meus filhos.
20:27
In the morning, I can't wait for them to leave,
505
1215186
2767
De manhã, mal espero eles saírem,
20:29
and then I climb in bed and
pull the covers over my head,
506
1217953
2990
volto para a cama,
cubro-me com o cobertor,
20:32
and three o'clock when they come home,
507
1220943
1646
e quando voltam às 15:00,
20:34
it just comes so fast."
508
1222589
1801
sinto que o tempo voou."
20:36
She said, "I've been taking a lot of Tylenol,
509
1224390
2240
Ela disse: "Tomo um monte de Tylenol,
20:38
anything I can take so that I can sleep more.
510
1226630
2759
qualquer coisa para dormir mais.
20:41
My husband has been telling me I'm stupid, I'm ugly.
511
1229389
3770
Meu marido diz que sou burra, feia.
20:45
I wish I could stop the pain."
512
1233159
3505
Queria muito acabar com a dor."
20:48
Well, she was brought into
this experimental protocol,
513
1236664
2640
Ela veio para o protocolo experimental,
20:51
and when I interviewed her six months later,
514
1239304
2308
e quando a entrevistei seis meses depois,
20:53
she had taken a job working in childcare
515
1241612
4407
ela trabalhava numa creche
20:58
for the U.S. Navy, she had left the abusive husband,
516
1246019
3805
da Marinha, deixara o marido ofensor,
21:01
and she said to me,
517
1249824
2082
e disse:
21:03
"My kids are so much happier now."
518
1251906
2369
"Meus filhos estão mais felizes.
21:06
She said, "There's one room in my new place
519
1254275
1977
Há um quarto em minha nova casa
21:08
for the boys and one room for the girls,
520
1256252
2608
para os meninos e outro para as meninas,
21:10
but at night, they're just all up on my bed,
521
1258860
2539
mas, à noite, vão todos para a minha cama,
21:13
and we're doing homework
all together and everything.
522
1261399
2612
e fazemos dever de casa juntos.
21:16
One of them wants to be a preacher,
523
1264011
1673
Um menino quer ser pastor,
21:17
one of them wants to be a firefighter,
524
1265684
1700
o outro bombeiro,
21:19
and one of the girls says she's going to be a lawyer.
525
1267384
2966
e uma menina quer ser advogada.
21:22
They don't cry like they used to,
526
1270350
2005
Não choram mais como antes,
21:24
and they don't fight like they did.
527
1272355
2558
nem brigam como antes.
21:26
That's all I need now is my kids.
528
1274913
3780
Tudo que preciso agora são meus filhos.
21:30
Things keep on changing,
529
1278693
1912
As coisas estão mudando:
21:32
the way I dress, the way I feel, the way I act.
530
1280605
5193
o jeito como me visto, sinto e ajo.
21:37
I can go outside not being afraid anymore,
531
1285798
3687
Agora, consigo sair sem sentir medo.
21:41
and I don't think those bad feelings are coming back,
532
1289485
3409
Acho que os sentimentos
ruins não voltarão,
21:44
and if it weren't for Dr. Miranda and that,
533
1292894
3035
e se não fosse por Dra. Miranda,
21:47
I would still be at home with
the covers pulled over my head,
534
1295929
3617
ainda estaria em casa, com
o cobertor sobre a cabeça,
21:51
if I were still alive at all.
535
1299546
2349
se é que ainda estaria viva.
21:53
I asked the Lord to send me an angel,
536
1301895
3732
Pedi ao Senhor que me enviasse um anjo,
21:57
and he heard my prayers."
537
1305627
4330
e Ele escutou minhas preces."
22:01
I was really moved by these experiences,
538
1309959
3353
Fiquei muito emocionado
com esses relatos,
22:05
and I decided that I wanted to write about them
539
1313312
2539
e decidi escrever sobre eles
22:07
not only in a book I was working on,
540
1315851
1379
não apenas num livro,
22:09
but also in an article,
541
1317230
1311
mas também num artigo,
22:10
and so I got a commission from
The New York Times Magazine
542
1318541
2321
e, a pedido da
"The New York Times Magazine"
22:12
to write about depression among the indigent.
543
1320862
2016
escrevi sobre depressão entre indigentes.
22:14
And I turned in my story,
544
1322878
1616
Entreguei a história,
22:16
and my editor called me and said,
545
1324494
1596
e minha editora me disse:
22:18
"We really can't publish this."
546
1326090
1710
"Não podemos publicar."
22:19
And I said, "Why not?"
547
1327800
1750
E falei: "Por que não?"
22:21
And she said, "It just is too far-fetched.
548
1329550
2305
Ela disse: "É inverossímil.
22:23
These people who are sort of at
the very bottom rung of society
549
1331855
3778
Essas pessoas que estão
na camada mais baixa da sociedade,
22:27
and then they get a few months of treatment
550
1335633
1704
fazem uns meses de tratamento
22:29
and they're virtually ready to run Morgan Stanley?
551
1337337
2632
e podem comandar a Bolsa de Valores?
22:31
It's just too implausible."
552
1339969
1854
É muito implausível."
22:33
She said, I've never even heard of anything like it."
553
1341823
2205
Falou: “Nunca soube de algo assim."
22:36
And I said, "The fact that you've never heard of it
554
1344028
2534
E falei: "O fato de você não saber
22:38
is an indication that it is news."
555
1346562
3000
indica que é notícia."
22:41
(Laughter) (Applause)
556
1349562
6134
(Risos) (Aplausos)
22:49
"And you are a news magazine."
557
1357317
2494
"E vocês são uma revista de notícias."
22:51
So after a certain amount of negotiation,
558
1359811
1982
Depois de alguma negociação,
22:53
they agreed to it.
559
1361793
1241
eles aceitaram.
22:55
But I think a lot of what they said
560
1363034
1615
Penso que o que disseram
22:56
was connected in some strange way
561
1364649
2295
está ligado, de uma forma estranha,
22:58
to this distaste that people still have
562
1366944
2142
à aversão que as pessoas ainda têm
23:01
for the idea of treatment,
563
1369086
1463
à ideia do tratamento,
23:02
the notion that somehow if we went out
564
1370549
1882
à noção de que se fôssemos
23:04
and treated a lot of people in indigent communities,
565
1372431
2696
tratar muita gente nas
comunidades carentes,
23:07
that would be an exploitative thing to do,
566
1375127
1898
seria uma exploração.
23:09
because we would be changing them.
567
1377025
1642
Estaríamos modificando-as.
23:10
There is this false moral imperative
568
1378667
2033
Há essa falsa moral imperativa
23:12
that seems to be all around us
569
1380700
1789
a nossa volta,
23:14
that treatment of depression,
570
1382489
2354
de que tratamento de depressão,
23:16
the medications and so on, are an artifice,
571
1384843
2299
e medicamentos são um artifício,
23:19
and that it's not natural.
572
1387142
2172
que não é natural.
23:21
And I think that's very misguided.
573
1389314
2849
Acho que é um grande equívoco.
23:24
It would be natural for people's teeth to fall out,
574
1392163
3532
Seria natural que os dentes caíssem,
23:27
but there is nobody militating against toothpaste,
575
1395695
3330
mas ninguém milita contra a pasta dental,
23:31
at least not in my circles.
576
1399025
2128
não que eu saiba.
23:33
And people then say, "Well, but isn't depression
577
1401153
2502
As pessoas dizem: “Mas a depressão
23:35
part of what people are supposed to experience?
578
1403655
2185
não é parte do que devemos vivenciar?
23:37
Didn't we evolve to have depression?
579
1405840
1741
Não evoluímos para ter depressão?
23:39
Isn't it part of your personality?"
580
1407581
1907
Não é parte da personalidade?"
23:41
To which I would say, mood is adaptive.
581
1409488
2746
Eu diria: o humor é adaptável.
23:44
Being able to have sadness and fear
582
1412234
3329
Ser capaz de sentir tristeza, medo,
23:47
and joy and pleasure
583
1415563
1842
alegria, prazer
23:49
and all of the other moods that we have,
584
1417405
1803
e todos os outros humores
23:51
that's incredibly valuable.
585
1419208
2064
é muito valioso.
23:53
And major depression is something that happens
586
1421272
3047
Depressão severa é algo que acontece
23:56
when that system gets broken.
587
1424319
2012
quando esse sistema se rompe,
23:58
It's maladaptive.
588
1426331
1717
fica mal ajustado.
24:00
People will come to me and say,
589
1428048
1572
As pessoas me dizem:
24:01
"I think, though, if I just stick it out for another year,
590
1429620
2768
"Penso que, se ficar firme por mais um ano,
24:04
I think I can just get through this."
591
1432388
2076
consigo me livrar dela."
24:06
And I always say to them, "You may get through it,
592
1434464
2303
Sempre digo: "Talvez consiga,
24:08
but you'll never be 37 again.
593
1436767
2709
mas jamais terá 37 anos de novo.
24:11
Life is short, and that's a whole year
594
1439476
2550
A vida é curta, é mais um ano inteiro,
24:14
you're talking about giving up.
595
1442026
1956
do qual você desistirá.
24:15
Think it through."
596
1443982
1538
Pense nisso."
24:17
It's a strange poverty of the English language,
597
1445520
2846
É uma pobreza estranha da língua inglesa,
24:20
and indeed of many other languages,
598
1448366
2108
e de tantas outras,
24:22
that we use this same word, depression,
599
1450474
2218
que usemos a mesma palavra, depressão,
24:24
to describe how a kid feels
600
1452692
1805
ao descrever como uma criança se sente
24:26
when it rains on his birthday,
601
1454497
1712
se chove no seu aniversário,
24:28
and to describe how somebody feels
602
1456209
2528
e descrever como alguém se sente
24:30
the minute before they commit suicide.
603
1458737
2454
um minuto antes de cometer suicídio.
24:33
People say to me, "Well, is it
continuous with normal sadness?"
604
1461191
3105
Perguntam: "A tristeza normal é contínua?"
24:36
And I say, in a way it's continuous
with normal sadness.
605
1464296
3144
E digo, de um modo,
a tristeza normal é contínua.
24:39
There is a certain amount of continuity,
606
1467440
2200
Há uma certa continuidade,
24:41
but it's the same way there's continuity
607
1469640
1957
assim como há continuidade,
24:43
between having an iron fence outside your house
608
1471597
1987
entre uma cerca de ferro,
24:45
that gets a little rust spot
609
1473584
1677
com um ponto de ferrugem
24:47
that you have to sand off and do a little repainting,
610
1475261
2746
que você lixa e repinta,
24:50
and what happens if you leave
the house for 100 years
611
1478007
2647
e o que ocorre se você
sai de casa por 100 anos,
24:52
and it rusts through until it's only a pile
612
1480654
2898
é que a cerca enferruja até virar
24:55
of orange dust.
613
1483552
1234
uma pilha de pó.
24:56
And it's that orange dust spot,
614
1484786
2173
É esse ponto de ferrugem,
24:58
that orange dust problem,
615
1486959
1789
esse ponto de problema,
25:00
that's the one we're setting out to address.
616
1488748
2989
a que nos referimos.
25:03
So now people say,
617
1491737
2240
Agora as pessoas dizem:
25:05
"You take these happy pills, and do you feel happy?"
618
1493977
2731
"Você toma uma pílula da felicidade
e fica feliz?"
25:08
And I don't.
619
1496708
1886
Não fico.
25:10
But I don't feel sad about having to eat lunch,
620
1498594
2822
Mas não fico triste por ter que almoçar,
25:13
and I don't feel sad about my answering machine,
621
1501416
2836
não fico triste
pela secretária eletrônica,
25:16
and I don't feel sad about taking a shower.
622
1504252
2845
nem por tomar banho.
25:19
I feel more, in fact, I think,
623
1507097
2854
Sinto mais, na verdade,
25:21
because I can feel sadness without nullity.
624
1509951
2430
porque não me sinto
anulado pela tristeza.
25:24
I feel sad about professional disappointments,
625
1512381
4347
Sinto-me triste com
decepções profissionais,
25:28
about damaged relationships,
626
1516728
2347
com relacionamentos ruins,
25:31
about global warming.
627
1519075
2039
com o aquecimento global.
25:33
Those are the things that I feel sad about now.
628
1521114
2725
Essas são as coisas
que me entristecem no momento.
25:35
And I said to myself, well, what is the conclusion?
629
1523839
2734
Disse a mim mesmo: "Qual é a conclusão?
25:38
How did those people who have better lives
630
1526573
2561
Como as pessoas que têm vidas melhores,
25:41
even with bigger depression manage to get through?
631
1529134
2554
mesmo com depressão
mais grave, saíram dela?
25:43
What is the mechanism of resilience?
632
1531688
2797
Qual é o mecanismo da resiliência?"
25:46
And what I came up with over time
633
1534485
2084
Cheguei à conclusão
25:48
was that the people who deny their experience,
634
1536569
2916
de que quem renega sua experiência,
25:51
the ones who say, "I was depressed a long time ago
635
1539485
2032
e diz: "Estive deprimido há muito tempo
25:53
and I never want to think about it again
636
1541517
1737
e nunca mais quero pensar
25:55
and I'm not going to look at it
637
1543254
1242
ou saber disso,
25:56
and I'm just going to get on with my life,"
638
1544496
1890
e vou apenas seguir com a vida",
25:58
ironically, those are the people
639
1546386
1959
ironicamente, essas são as pessoas
26:00
who are most enslaved by what they have.
640
1548345
2698
mais escravizadas pelo que têm.
26:03
Shutting out the depression strengthens it.
641
1551043
2564
Afastar a depressão a fortalece.
26:05
While you hide from it, it grows.
642
1553607
3280
Ao se esconder dela, ela cresce.
26:08
And the people who do better
643
1556887
2860
E as pessoas que se dão melhor
26:11
are the ones who are able to tolerate the fact
644
1559747
2599
são as capazes de suportar o fato
26:14
that they have this condition.
645
1562346
1622
de terem essa condição.
26:15
Those who can tolerate their depression
646
1563968
2470
Aqueles que consegue aceitar a depressão
26:18
are the ones who achieve resilience.
647
1566438
1782
são os que encontram resiliência.
26:20
So Frank Russakoff said to me,
648
1568220
1783
Frank Russakoff me disse:
26:22
"If I had it again to do over,
649
1570003
1516
"Se tivesse que fazer de novo,
26:23
I suppose I wouldn't do it this way,
650
1571519
2137
acho que não faria desse jeito,
26:25
but in a strange way, I'm grateful
651
1573656
1964
mas, ainda assim, sou grato
26:27
for what I've experienced.
652
1575620
1503
pelo que vivenciei.
26:29
I'm glad to have been in the hospital 40 times.
653
1577123
3817
Sou grato pelas 40 idas ao hospital.
26:32
It taught me so much about love,
654
1580940
2603
Aprendi muito sobre o amor,
26:35
and my relationship with my parents and my doctors
655
1583543
2840
e a relação com meus pais e médicos
26:38
has been so precious to me, and will be always."
656
1586383
4389
é preciosa para mim e sempre será."
26:42
And Maggie Robbins said,
657
1590772
1926
Maggie Robbins disse:
26:44
"I used to volunteer in an AIDS clinic,
658
1592698
2989
"Eu era voluntária em uma clínica de AIDS,
26:47
and I would just talk and talk and talk,
659
1595687
3014
e eu falava e falava,
26:50
and the people I was dealing with
660
1598701
1813
e lidava com pessoas
26:52
weren't very responsive, and I thought,
661
1600514
2067
não muito receptivas, e pensava:
26:54
'That's not very friendly or helpful of them.'
662
1602581
3961
'Elas não são muito
simpáticas ou prestativas.'
26:58
And then I realized,
663
1606542
1642
Aí compreendi
27:00
I realized that they weren't going to do more
664
1608184
2127
que elas não se empenhariam
27:02
than make those first few minutes of small talk.
665
1610311
2387
além daqueles minutos de conversa fiada.
27:04
It was simply going to be an occasion
666
1612698
2057
Era apenas uma ocasião
27:06
where I didn't have AIDS and I wasn't dying,
667
1614755
2878
em que eu não tinha AIDS,
e não estava morrendo,
27:09
but could tolerate the fact that they did
668
1617633
2973
mas poderia suportar
o fato de que elas tinham
27:12
and they were.
669
1620606
1787
e morreriam.
27:14
Our needs are our greatest assets.
670
1622393
3603
Nossas necessidades são
nosso bem maior.
27:17
It turns out I've learned to give
671
1625996
2139
Aprendi a dar
27:20
all the things I need."
672
1628135
4025
tudo o que eu preciso."
27:24
Valuing one's depression
673
1632160
1691
Valorizar a nossa depressão
27:25
does not prevent a relapse,
674
1633851
2194
não previne recaída,
27:28
but it may make the prospect of relapse
675
1636045
2661
mas pode fazer a perspectiva da recaída
27:30
and even relapse itself easier to tolerate.
676
1638706
4218
ou mesmo a recaída em si,
mais fácil de suportar.
27:34
The question is not so much
677
1642924
2045
A questão não é tanto
27:36
of finding great meaning and deciding
678
1644969
2175
encontrar grande significado e decidir
27:39
your depression has been very meaningful.
679
1647144
2027
que sua depressão significa muito.
27:41
It's of seeking that meaning
680
1649171
2171
É buscar esse significado
27:43
and thinking, when it comes again,
681
1651342
1804
e pensar quando ela voltar:
27:45
"This will be hellish,
682
1653146
1640
"Vai ser um inferno,
27:46
but I will learn something from it."
683
1654786
2701
mas aprenderei algo."
27:49
I have learned in my own depression
684
1657487
2264
Aprendi com minha própria depressão
27:51
how big an emotion can be,
685
1659751
2013
como uma emoção pode ser imensa,
27:53
how it can be more real than facts,
686
1661764
3097
como ela pode ser mais real do que fatos,
27:56
and I have found that that experience
687
1664861
2949
e descobri que essa experiência
27:59
has allowed me to experience positive emotion
688
1667810
2892
me permite vivenciar emoção positiva
28:02
in a more intense and more focused way.
689
1670702
3520
de um jeito mais intenso e focado.
28:06
The opposite of depression is not happiness,
690
1674222
3487
O oposto de depressão não é felicidade,
28:09
but vitality,
691
1677709
1454
e sim vitalidade,
28:11
and these days, my life is vital,
692
1679163
2741
e, atualmente, minha vida é vital,
28:13
even on the days when I'm sad.
693
1681904
2745
mesmo nos dias em que estou triste.
28:16
I felt that funeral in my brain,
694
1684649
3313
Senti aquele féretro no meu cérebro,
28:19
and I sat next to the colossus
695
1687962
2024
e sentei-me próximo ao colosso,
28:21
at the edge of the world,
696
1689986
2247
à beira do mundo,
28:24
and I have discovered
697
1692233
2089
e descobri
28:26
something inside of myself
698
1694322
1851
algo dentro de mim,
28:28
that I would have to call a soul
699
1696173
2133
que chamo de alma,
28:30
that I had never formulated
until that day 20 years ago
700
1698306
3756
que eu nunca elaborara até
aquele dia, 20 anos atrás,
28:34
when hell came to pay me a surprise visit.
701
1702062
4518
quando o diabo me fez
uma visita surpresa.
28:38
I think that while I hated being depressed
702
1706580
4098
Acho que ao odiar estar deprimido,
28:42
and would hate to be depressed again,
703
1710678
2334
e odiaria novamente,
28:45
I've found a way to love my depression.
704
1713012
2744
descobri um jeito de amar
minha depressão.
28:47
I love it because it has forced me
705
1715756
2025
Eu a amo por ela ter me forçado
28:49
to find and cling to joy.
706
1717781
2769
a buscar alegria e a me agarrar a ela.
28:52
I love it because each day I decide,
707
1720550
3488
Eu a amo porque, todos os dias, eu decido,
28:56
sometimes gamely,
708
1724038
1540
às vezes com bravura,
28:57
and sometimes against the moment's reason,
709
1725578
2698
e outras, contra a razão do momento,
29:00
to cleave to the reasons for living.
710
1728276
2578
agarrar-me às razões de viver.
29:02
And that, I think, is a highly privileged rapture.
711
1730854
4123
E isso é um grande privilégio.
29:06
Thank you.
712
1734977
3983
Obrigado.
(Aplausos)
29:10
(Applause)
713
1738960
3136
Translated by Viviane Ferraz Matos
Reviewed by Nadja Nathan

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Andrew Solomon - Writer
Andrew Solomon writes about politics, culture and psychology.

Why you should listen

Andrew Solomon is a writer, lecturer and Professor of Clinical Psychology at Columbia University. He is president of PEN American Center. He writes regularly for The New Yorker and the New York Times.

Solomon's newest book, Far and Away: Reporting from the Brink of Change, Seven Continents, Twenty-Five Years was published in April, 2016. His previous book, Far From the Tree: Parents, Children, and the Search for Identity won the National Book Critics Circle award for nonfiction, the Wellcome Prize and 22 other national awards. It tells the stories of parents who not only learn to deal with their exceptional children but also find profound meaning in doing so. It was a New York Times bestseller in both hardcover and paperback editions. Solomon's previous book, The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression, won the 2001 National Book Award for Nonfiction, was a finalist for the 2002 Pulitzer Prize and was included in The Times of London's list of one hundred best books of the decade. It has been published in twenty-four languages. Solomon is also the author of the novel A Stone Boat and of The Irony Tower: Soviet Artists in a Time of Glasnost.

Solomon is an activist in LGBT rights, mental health, education and the arts. He is a member of the boards of directors of the National LGBTQ Force and Trans Youth Family Allies. He is a member of the Board of Visitors of Columbia University Medical Center, serves on the National Advisory Board of the Depression Center at the University of Michigan, is a director of Columbia Psychiatry and is a member of the Advisory Board of the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance. Solomon also serves on the boards of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Yaddo and The Alex Fund, which supports the education of Romani children. He is also a fellow of Berkeley College at Yale University and a member of the New York Institute for the Humanities and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Solomon lives with his husband and son in New York and London and is a dual national. He also has a daughter with a college friend; mother and daughter live in Texas but visit often.


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