TED2017
Jorge Drexler: Poetry, music and identity
荷西·德克勒: 诗歌、音乐中的身份认同
Filmed:
Readability: 4.1
1,406,340 views
2002年的某天晚上，荷西·德克勤的朋友给他了一段副歌，并激励他用复杂的“Decima“十行诗模板填写这首曲子的余下部分。这场精彩的演讲中，德克勤重新审视了身份的混合属性，将 "Décima"的历史和自己写歌的心路历程融合在一起。最后，他以这首"犹太摩尔人的米隆加"结束演讲。
Jorge Drexler - Musician, poet
Jorge Drexler is a musician and the first Uruguayan to win an Oscar. His music plays with genre and influence, combining subtle harmonies and regional styles with electronic effects. Full bio
Jorge Drexler is a musician and the first Uruguayan to win an Oscar. His music plays with genre and influence, combining subtle harmonies and regional styles with electronic effects. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
I'm going to tell you the story of a song.
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我想和你们分享一首歌的故事。
2002年的某天夜里，我在马德里
00:15
I was in Madrid one night in 2002
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00:20
with my teacher and friend Joaquín Sabina,
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和我的老师兼朋友
Joaquín Sabina一起，
Joaquín Sabina一起，
00:22
when he said he had something to give me.
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他说有东西要给我。
他说，
00:25
He said,
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“Jorge，我有一些词，
你一定要把它写进歌里
你一定要把它写进歌里
00:26
"Jorge, I have some lines
that you need to put into a song.
that you need to put into a song.
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把它们记下来，写下来。”
00:30
Take these down, take these down."
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我扫视了桌子，只看到一个圆杯垫，
00:32
I looked on the table but all I found
was a circular coaster,
was a circular coaster,
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00:35
on which I wrote the lines
my teacher dictated.
my teacher dictated.
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我就跟着老师的口述
把句子写了上去。
把句子写了上去。
00:37
They were four lines that went like this:
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有四行像这样的：
”我是一个犹太摩尔人
生活在基督徒中，
生活在基督徒中，
00:39
"I am a Jewish Moor
living among Christians
living among Christians
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我不知道我的上帝是谁
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。”
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。”
00:43
I don't know who my God is,
nor who my brothers are."
nor who my brothers are."
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00:48
Those lines really made
an impression on me.
an impression on me.
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这些词句给我留下了深刻印象，
我说：”多美的歌词。
Joaquín，你写的吗？"
Joaquín，你写的吗？"
00:51
I said, "What beautiful lyrics,
Joaquín. Did you write them?"
Joaquín. Did you write them?"
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他说，“不是。”
00:54
He said no, they were by another composer
named Chicho Sánchez Ferlosio,
named Chicho Sánchez Ferlosio,
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他说，这是个叫Chicho Sánchez
Ferlosio的作曲家写的。
Ferlosio的作曲家写的。
他不如Joaquín有名
但也是个伟大的诗人。
但也是个伟大的诗人。
00:59
who was less known than Joaquín,
but also a great poet.
but also a great poet.
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这些句子正好诉说了
01:03
These lines came to me at a time
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01:05
where I had been wanting
to express something for a while,
to express something for a while,
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我一度想要表达
却不知如何诉说的东西。
01:08
but didn't quite know how.
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01:09
I was getting up to leave
and go home to write,
and go home to write,
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当我正起身准备回家写歌，
Joaquín截住了我，说
"等一下，等一下”
"等一下，等一下”
01:12
when Joaquín stopped me
and said, "Hang on, hang on,"
and said, "Hang on, hang on,"
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并给了我一个挑战，
01:15
and presented me with this challenge:
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”为这首歌写一节吧
01:17
"Write the stanzas for this song
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用Décimas的格式。”
01:21
in Décimas."
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01:23
Now, at this point in my life,
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至今，在人生的这一刻，
01:25
I still wasn't completely
sure what Décimas were,
sure what Décimas were,
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我仍然不完全明白
Décimas是什么，
Décimas是什么，
01:29
but I was too embarrassed
to tell my teacher I didn't know.
to tell my teacher I didn't know.
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但我没脸告诉老师其实我不知道，
01:33
So I put on my best
"Yeah, I totally understand" face,
"Yeah, I totally understand" face,
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我便逞强装出一副“我完全明白”
的样子，
的样子，
01:37
and went home to look up
what Décimas were.
what Décimas were.
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然后回家查Décimas是什么。
01:40
I learned that a Décima is a type of verse
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我了解到Décimas是诗的一种
且只存在于西班牙语中，
01:43
that only exists in Spanish,
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它有十行。
01:45
and that it has 10 lines.
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非常复杂，非常非常的复杂。
01:46
It's very, very complex --
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01:48
perhaps the most complex style of stanza
that we have in Spanish.
that we have in Spanish.
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可能是西班牙语中最复杂的一种诗。
01:51
It also has a very concrete
date of origin,
date of origin,
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它有具体的诞生时期，
这对于诗而言是很罕见的。
01:54
which is very rare for a style of stanza.
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01:56
The Décima was invented in Spain in 1591,
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1591年，Décimas在西班牙被发明，
02:01
by a guy named Vicente Espinel,
a musician and poet from Málaga.
a musician and poet from Málaga.
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发明者是Vicente Espinel，
一位来自马拉加的音乐家及诗人。
巧的是，他也是
02:07
And listen to this coincidence:
he was the same guy
he was the same guy
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为后来的西班牙吉他
02:10
who added the sixth string
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02:12
to what would later be called
the Spanish guitar.
the Spanish guitar.
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增设第六根弦的人。
那一根弦
02:14
This string right here --
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被称作 "Bordona"。
02:16
it's called the "bordona."
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02:18
From Spain, the Décima, with its 10 lines,
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十行诗Décima从西班牙
02:22
crosses over to America,
just like the Spanish guitar,
just like the Spanish guitar,
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流传到美洲，
就像西班牙吉他一样，
就像西班牙吉他一样，
但与Décima不同的是
02:26
but in contrast to the Décima,
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02:28
the Spanish guitar continues to live today
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西班牙吉他至今仍存在于
大西洋的两岸。
02:30
on both sides of the Atlantic.
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02:32
But the Décima, in Spain, its birthplace,
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但Décima在诞生地西班牙
02:35
disappeared; it died out.
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已经消失了。
02:38
It died out about 200 years ago,
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它消失于200年前。
02:40
and yet in Latin America,
from Mexico to Chile,
from Mexico to Chile,
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然而在拉丁美洲，从墨西哥到智利
这些国家都在流行传统中存留着
Décima的衍生形式。
Décima的衍生形式。
02:45
all our countries maintain
some form of the Décima
some form of the Décima
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02:49
in our popular traditions.
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02:52
In each place, they've given it
a different name,
a different name,
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在不同的地方，
人们给予它不同的名字，
人们给予它不同的名字，
02:54
and set it to different music.
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搭配不同的音乐。
在拉丁美洲它有20多个别名。
02:56
It has a lot of different names --
more than 20 in total on the continent.
more than 20 in total on the continent.
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03:01
In Mexico, for example,
it's called the "Son Jarocho,"
it's called the "Son Jarocho,"
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例如，在墨西哥它被叫做
"夏洛楚颂乐"，
"夏洛楚颂乐"，
在巴拿马被称为"墨兰角之歌"，
03:04
"Canto de mejorana" in Panama;
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在委内瑞拉是"加莱隆"，
03:06
"Galerón" in Venezuela;
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乌拉圭和阿根廷是"Payada"，
03:08
"Payada" in Uruguay and Argentina;
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03:11
"Repentismo" in Cuba.
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在古巴是"Repentismo"，
03:12
In Peru, they call it the Peruvian Décima,
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在秘鲁被称作“秘鲁Décima”。
Décima与各地的传统文化
紧紧结合，
紧紧结合，
03:15
because the Décima becomes
so integrated into our traditions,
so integrated into our traditions,
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如果有人问到Décima的由来时
每个地方的人们都坚信
每个地方的人们都坚信
03:18
that if someone asks, people
from each place are completely convinced
from each place are completely convinced
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Décima诞生于他们的国家。
03:21
that the Décima was invented
in their country.
in their country.
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03:24
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
它也有令人惊叹的特点。
03:25
It's also got a really surprising feature,
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尽管它在各个国家
03:28
which is that despite the fact
that it developed independently
that it developed independently
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独立发展，
03:31
in each of the different countries,
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03:33
it maintains even today,
400 years after its creation,
400 years after its creation,
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在诞生400年后的今天
Décima仍然保持着
Décima仍然保持着
几乎一样的韵律、音节和结构。
03:37
exactly the same rhyme,
syllable and line structure --
syllable and line structure --
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与Vincent Espinel在
西班牙巴洛克时期
西班牙巴洛克时期
03:44
the same structure Vicente Espinel gave it
during the Spanish Baroque period.
during the Spanish Baroque period.
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创造的结构毫无二致。
结构是这样的——
03:48
Here's the structure --
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我会给你们大致的概念，
03:49
I'll give you the basic idea
and then later you can look online
and then later you can look online
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你们可以稍后上网查询，
了解更多，
了解更多，
03:52
and learn more about it.
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Décima有十行，
每一行有八个音节。
每一行有八个音节。
03:55
The Décima is ten lines long;
each line has eight syllables.
each line has eight syllables.
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03:59
The first line rhymes
with the fourth and the fifth;
with the fourth and the fifth;
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第一、第四和第五行押韵，
04:02
the second line, with the third;
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第二和第三行押韵，
第六、第七、第十行押韵。
04:04
the sixth line,
with the seventh and the tenth;
with the seventh and the tenth;
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第八行和第九行押韵。
04:06
and the eighth line rhymes with the ninth.
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坦白说这有些复杂。
04:09
It's a bit complicated, to be honest.
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04:12
And me -- imagine me,
trying to write in Décimas.
trying to write in Décimas.
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想象下我试着写Décima。
04:16
But it's not as complicated as it seems.
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但其实它没有看起来那么复杂。
另外，令人惊异的是，
这相同的结构
这相同的结构
04:19
Plus, it's amazing that it's survived
with the same structure
with the same structure
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04:22
for more than four centuries.
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存活了超过四个世纪。
04:24
It's not that complicated, because it has
an impressive musicality to it,
an impressive musicality to it,
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它并不那么复杂，因为它有
令人印象深刻的音乐性，
令人印象深刻的音乐性，
04:28
a type of musicality
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这种乐感
04:30
that's very hard to describe technically.
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很难从技术层面上描述。
04:34
I prefer that you listen to it.
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我更愿意让你们听一下。
所以我打算背诵一段Décima，
04:35
So I'm going to recite a Décima,
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它是我为这首歌写的一段。
04:39
one of the Décimas
that I wrote for this song.
that I wrote for this song.
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我想请你们专心听它的韵律感，
04:45
I'm going to ask that you concentrate
just on the musicality of the rhymes.
just on the musicality of the rhymes.
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带着耳机的各位——
04:50
For those of you with headphones on --
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我知道你们是在听翻译，
04:52
I see that some of you are listening
to the translation --
to the translation --
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04:57
please take them off for a minute.
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但希望你们能摘下耳机片刻。
（英语）戴耳机的各位，
请将它们取下。
请将它们取下。
04:59
(English) Take your headphones off,
it you have them.
it you have them.
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05:03
(English) Forget about the meaning
of the words for a few seconds,
of the words for a few seconds,
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（英语）请暂时不用在意词语的意思
（英语）过会儿再戴上耳机。
05:09
(English) and then you'll put them back.
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（英语）请别管结构了，
05:11
(English) Forget about the structure.
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（西语）忘了结构。
05:13
(Spanish) Forget about the structure.
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05:15
(English) And just ... it's all about
the choreography of sound of the Décima.
the choreography of sound of the Décima.
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（英语）专注聆听Décima编排的韵味。
（西语）韵味。
05:20
(Spanish) A choreography of sound.
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“没有一个离世不使我感到痛苦
生命中没有胜利者。
生命中没有胜利者。
05:24
(Sings in Spanish) "There is not one death
that does not cause me pain,
that does not cause me pain,
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05:28
there are no winners,
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这里除了苦难，别无其他
另一个生命悄然逝去。
另一个生命悄然逝去。
05:29
here’s nothing but suffering
and another life blown away.
and another life blown away.
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05:32
War is a terrible school
no matter what the disguise,
no matter what the disguise,
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战争是所可怕的学校
不论它的任何伪装，
不论它的任何伪装，
05:35
forgive me for not enlisting
under any flag,
under any flag,
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原谅我不站在
任何一个阵营旗下，
任何一个阵营旗下，
任何白日梦都比
那一片可悲的布更有价值。”
那一片可悲的布更有价值。”
05:38
any daydream is worth more
than a sad piece of cloth."
than a sad piece of cloth."
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这就是Décima。
05:46
That's a Décima.
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（英语）你们可以戴上耳机了。
05:48
(English) You can put
your headphones back on.
your headphones back on.
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（掌声）
05:50
(Applause)
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05:51
(English) Thank you.
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（英语）谢谢。
（掌声）
05:52
(Applause)
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05:57
I also applaud Vicente Espinel,
because here it is 426 years later,
because here it is 426 years later,
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我也很欣赏Vicente Espinel，
因为在426年后的今天，
06:00
and the Décima lives on everywhere
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Décima原封不动地存留于各处。
06:02
in its original state.
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我写了三首这样的段落
你们刚才听到的是第二段，
你们刚才听到的是第二段，
06:03
I wrote three like that one;
you just heard the second.
you just heard the second.
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06:06
I wrote the first one having only
recently learned how,
recently learned how,
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我最近才学会怎样写
所以写的第一段
所以写的第一段
存在一些韵律错误
06:08
and it has some errors in terms of meter,
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所以以它现在的状态
无法被呈现。
无法被呈现。
06:11
so it's not presentable
in its current state.
in its current state.
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至少我刚刚朗诵的是不错的。
06:13
But the one I sang was good, more or less.
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06:15
So: What was it about?
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所以：它说了什么？
字里行间有什么意涵？
06:19
What was the meaning behind those lines?
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我刚从以色列回来，
我在那儿办了一场音乐会。
我在那儿办了一场音乐会。
06:21
I had just returned from doing
a concert in Israel,
a concert in Israel,
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有一个问题直击我内心深处，
06:26
and I was very emotional over a problem
that hits really close to home,
that hits really close to home,
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那就是巴以冲突。
06:29
which is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
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06:32
I'll explain: my dad's family is Jewish,
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我解释一下：
我爸爸的家庭都是犹太人
我爸爸的家庭都是犹太人
但我妈妈的家人是名义上的基督徒，
他们不去教堂做礼拜。
他们不去教堂做礼拜。
06:34
and my mom's family
are non-practicing Christians.
are non-practicing Christians.
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我成长于一个两种文化混合的家庭
06:37
I was raised in a home
where the two traditions lived together
where the two traditions lived together
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还挺和谐的。
06:41
more or less in harmony.
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我总能看到我的犹太裔祖父
穿着圣诞老人的衣服，
穿着圣诞老人的衣服，
06:44
It wasn't unusual to see my Jewish grandpa
dressed as Santa Claus, for example,
dressed as Santa Claus, for example,
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或者我非犹太裔的外公
在犹太会堂里戴着犹太帽，
在犹太会堂里戴着犹太帽，
06:48
or to see my non-Jewish grandpa
at the synagogue wearing his kippah,
at the synagogue wearing his kippah,
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在家庭聚会上，
06:51
at family celebrations, wearing the same
expression that I probably had
expression that I probably had
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他的表情和
当Sabina告诉我——
当Sabina告诉我——
06:55
when Sabina told me --
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06:56
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
他写了几行Décima给我时
一模一样。
一模一样。
06:57
that he had some Décima lines for me.
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07:02
For someone raised
in that kind of environment,
in that kind of environment,
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对于在这样环境中长大的人来说
07:05
it's especially painful to see
the difficulty the opposing parties have
the difficulty the opposing parties have
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很痛苦地看着对立的双方
很难为对方考虑
哪怕一会儿而已。
哪怕一会儿而已。
07:11
in putting themselves in the other
side's shoes even for a moment.
side's shoes even for a moment.
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这就是我写的意思。
07:14
So that's what I wrote about.
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07:16
I already had the lyrics,
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我早写好了歌词，
07:17
I had the form -- the Décima --
and the content.
and the content.
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使用了Décima的格式和内容，
07:21
I needed to write the music.
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但我还需要写配乐。
让我给你一些情景，
07:24
I'll give you some context.
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我最近刚从我的家乡乌拉圭
搬到西班牙，
搬到西班牙，
07:25
I had only recently moved from Uruguay,
where I'm from, to Spain.
where I'm from, to Spain.
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我觉得自己特别念家，
07:30
And I was feeling very raw with nostalgia,
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和你们中的大多数异乡人一样。
07:33
like many of you here,
who are away from home.
who are away from home.
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07:37
And I wanted my song
to be very, very Uruguayan,
to be very, very Uruguayan,
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我希望我的歌曲能
特别有乌拉圭的味道
特别有乌拉圭的味道
最具乌拉圭风味的音乐
就是米隆加。
就是米隆加。
07:40
the most Uruguayan type of song
there is -- the milonga.
there is -- the milonga.
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07:44
So now, I had been studying the Décima,
and after finding out
and after finding out
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当我学过Décima之后我发现，
07:49
that everyone tried to claim
the Décima as their own,
the Décima as their own,
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每个人都声称Décima是
他们国家的诗，
07:52
that it was invented in their country,
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我就想：
当我们说米隆加是乌拉圭的时候
代表了什么呢？
代表了什么呢？
07:54
it made me wonder:
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07:55
What does it mean when we say
the milonga is Uruguayan?
the milonga is Uruguayan?
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米隆加的那种节拍
我们音乐家们称之为3-3-2。
我们音乐家们称之为3-3-2。
07:58
The milonga has a rhythmic pattern
that we musicians call 3-3-2.
that we musicians call 3-3-2.
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（打拍子）1 2 3 ，
1 2 3 ，1 2 。
1 2 3 ，1 2 。
08:04
(Counts out the beats) One two three,
one two three, one two.
one two three, one two.
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08:11
And it has a characteristic emphasis.
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它有明显的重点。
（唱歌）
08:14
(Sings)
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但这种很有特色的节奏
08:22
But this characteristic rhythm pattern
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08:25
comes from Africa.
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起源于非洲。
在第九世纪，你可以在波斯的妓院里
听见，
听见，
08:27
In the ninth century you could find it
in the brothels of Persia,
in the brothels of Persia,
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在十三世纪时，
08:30
and in the thirteenth,
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在西班牙听见，
五个世纪以后
五个世纪以后
08:33
in Spain, from where,
five centuries later,
five centuries later,
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它跟着非洲奴隶一起来到了美洲。
08:36
it would cross over to America
with the African slaves.
with the African slaves.
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同时在巴尔干半岛
它传遍了罗马的土地 ——
它传遍了罗马的土地 ——
08:39
Meanwhile, in the Balkans,
it encounters the Roma scale --
it encounters the Roma scale --
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（唱歌）
08:44
(Sings)
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08:51
which in part, gives birth
to klezmer music,
to klezmer music,
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这在一定程度上促进了
克莱兹默犹太音乐的诞生，
克莱兹默犹太音乐的诞生，
由乌克兰的犹太移民带到了
纽约的布鲁克林。
纽约的布鲁克林。
08:55
which Ukrainian Jewish immigrants
bring to Brooklyn, New York.
bring to Brooklyn, New York.
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08:59
They sing it in their banquet halls.
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他们在宴会厅演唱
（唱犹太民歌“让我们欢乐"）
09:02
(Sings "Hava Nagila")
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而他们的邻居
一个意大利血统的阿根廷小孩
一个意大利血统的阿根廷小孩
09:09
And their neighbor,
an Argentine kid of Italian origin
an Argentine kid of Italian origin
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09:12
named Astor Piazzolla,
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名叫阿斯托尔·皮亚佐拉
09:14
hears it,
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听到这歌时
09:16
assimilates it
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吸收了这种音乐的特点，
并改变了20世纪后期的探戈
09:18
and transforms the tango
of the second half of the 20th century
of the second half of the 20th century
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加上了他的
09:21
with his ...
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（打拍子）123，123， 12。
09:22
(Counts out the beats) One two three,
one two three, one two.
one two three, one two.
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09:26
(Sings "Adios Nonino")
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（唱“再见父亲”）
他用自己的手风琴演奏这种音乐，
这是一种19世纪德国乐器
这是一种19世纪德国乐器
09:34
He also played it on his bandoneon,
a 19th-century German instrument
a 19th-century German instrument
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专为那些购置不起
管风琴的教堂创造的。
管风琴的教堂创造的。
09:38
created for churches
that weren't allowed to buy organs,
that weren't allowed to buy organs,
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09:42
and that ends up, incredibly,
in Río de la Plata,
in Río de la Plata,
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最后，令人难以置信的是
它流传至拉普拉塔河流域
它流传至拉普拉塔河流域
09:45
forming the very essence
of the tango and the milonga,
of the tango and the milonga,
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成为了探戈和米隆加的精粹，
它的传播方式与一种与手风琴
同样重要乐器一样，
同样重要乐器一样，
09:49
in the very same way another instrument
just as important as the bandoneon did:
just as important as the bandoneon did:
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09:54
the Spanish guitar.
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那就是西班牙吉他。
09:56
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
顺便提一下，在16世纪
Vicente Espinel
Vicente Espinel
10:08
To which, by the way,
Vicente Espinel, in the 16th century,
Vicente Espinel, in the 16th century,
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10:11
added a sixth string.
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为西班牙吉他增加了第六根弦。
让人惊奇的是，
一切都形成了个完整的循环。
一切都形成了个完整的循环。
10:12
It's amazing how all these things
are coming full circle.
are coming full circle.
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10:15
What have I learned in these 15 years
since the song was born
since the song was born
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在过去15年里，我带着这首
在马德里的一家酒吧的杯垫上写的歌
10:18
from going all over the world
with four lines written on a coaster
with four lines written on a coaster
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唱遍世界，我感受到了什么？
10:21
from a bar in Madrid?
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Décimas，
10:24
That Décimas,
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10:26
the milonga,
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米隆加
10:27
songs, people --
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歌曲，人们：
10:30
the closer you get to them,
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你越接近他们，
他们的身份越复杂，
10:32
the more complex their identity becomes,
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10:35
and the more nuances and details appear.
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你就会发现越多的细节。
10:38
I learned that identity
is infinitely dense,
is infinitely dense,
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我发现身份是无穷无尽的，
10:41
like an infinite series of real numbers,
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就像实数有无限多个，
10:44
and that even if you get very close
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甚至你无限逼近的时候，
放大一看，
10:46
and zoom in,
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它却永无止境。
10:47
it never ends.
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10:50
Before I sing you a song and say goodbye,
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在我以一首歌和大家说再见之前，
请允许我说最后一个故事。
10:55
allow me to tell you one last story.
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不久前，我在墨西哥
音乐会结束后，
音乐会结束后，
10:57
Not long ago, we were in Mexico
after a concert.
after a concert.
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因为创办人认识我，
11:02
And since the concert promoters know me,
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11:05
they knew I was a Décima freak
and that everywhere I go I ask about it,
and that everywhere I go I ask about it,
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他们知道我是Décima忠粉，
我无论去哪都在打听着它
我无论去哪都在打听着它
尽一切可能打听关于
Décima艺术家的事，
Décima艺术家的事，
11:09
insisting on hearing Décima artists.
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所以他们在家
为我组织了一场夏洛楚颂乐表演。
为我组织了一场夏洛楚颂乐表演。
11:10
So they organized a son jarocho show
for me at their house.
for me at their house.
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11:16
If you recall, the son jarocho
is one of the styles of music
is one of the styles of music
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你还记得的话
夏洛楚颂乐是音乐的一种，
夏洛楚颂乐是音乐的一种，
11:20
that uses Décimas in its verses.
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它在词中使用了Décima。
11:24
When these amazing musicians
finished playing
finished playing
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这些伟大的音乐家结束演奏
11:28
what is for me, something amazing,
which is the son jarocho,
which is the son jarocho,
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这场惊人的夏洛楚颂乐表演，
他们演奏结束以后
11:31
they finished playing and were ...
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11:32
I went up to greet them, really excited,
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2219
我激动地走过去和他们打招呼，
11:35
getting ready to thank them
for their gift of music,
for their gift of music,
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准备感谢他们音乐的天赋，
有个很小的孩子和我说——
11:39
and this young kid says to me --
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完全出于好意
他说，
他说，
11:43
and he says it with the best
of intentions -- he says,
of intentions -- he says,
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2870
“先生，我们很骄傲能够
11:46
"We're very proud, sir, to be keeping
alive the purest origins
alive the purest origins
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将我们的最纯粹的墨西哥文化起源
保留下来。”
保留下来。”
11:53
of our Mexican identity."
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2258
11:56
And to tell you the truth,
I didn't really know what to say.
I didn't really know what to say.
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老实说，我不知道该说什么。
（笑声）
11:59
(Laughter)
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12:00
I stood there looking at him.
I gave him a hug and left, but ...
I gave him a hug and left, but ...
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我看了看他，拥抱了他，
然后离开了。
然后离开了。
（笑声）
12:03
(Laughter)
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不过，他也是对的，对吧？
12:04
But he was right, too, though. Right?
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712890
1985
12:06
In reality, the Décima is its origin,
but at the same time,
but at the same time,
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2831
现实中，Décima是它的源头，
但同时
但同时
就像米隆加一样，
12:09
just like in the milonga
and in the Décima,
and in the Décima,
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Décima是全球各地很多种文化的起源
就像他说的一样。
就像他说的一样。
12:12
are the roots of many more cultures
from all over the place, like he said.
from all over the place, like he said.
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3947
12:18
Later, when I got back to the hotel,
I thought about it for a while.
I thought about it for a while.
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后来我返回酒店时
我深深思考了这件事。
我深深思考了这件事。
12:21
And I thought:
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我想，
只有当你从很远处观察时，
12:22
things only look pure
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事情才会看起来很纯粹简单。
12:27
if you look at them from far away.
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2175
知道我们的根是很重要的，
12:30
It's very important
to know about our roots,
to know about our roots,
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3345
知道我们的出生地，
了解我们的文化
了解我们的文化
12:33
to know where we come from,
to understand our history.
to understand our history.
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4022
12:37
But at the same time, as important
as knowing where we're from,
as knowing where we're from,
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但同时，和知晓出生地同等重要的
12:40
is understanding that deep down,
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是我们内心深处能够明白
我们不属于任何一个地方，
12:44
we're all from nowhere
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752078
1960
12:46
and a little bit from everywhere.
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1625
而也来自于每个地方。
12:47
Thank you very much.
239
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1225
非常感谢。
（鼓掌）
12:48
(Applause)
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这是“犹太摩尔人的米隆加”。
12:58
This is "The milonga of the Jewish Moor."
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13:02
(Music)
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（音乐）
13:14
(Sings)
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2001
（唱歌）
13:16
For every wall a lament
in Jerusalem the golden
in Jerusalem the golden
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在金色的耶路撒冷，
悲伤环绕着每一堵墙，
悲伤环绕着每一堵墙，
13:24
and 100 wasted lives
for every commandment.
for every commandment.
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每条戒律的背后
都是百条牺牲的生命。
都是百条牺牲的生命。
13:31
I am dust in your wind
and although I bleed through your wound,
and although I bleed through your wound,
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我是你风中的微尘
尽管我从你的伤口上流血，
尽管我从你的伤口上流血，
13:39
and every beloved stone
has my deepest affection,
has my deepest affection,
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每一块代表爱的石头
都蕴藏着我最浓烈的深情，
都蕴藏着我最浓烈的深情，
13:45
there is not a stone in the world
worth more than a human life.
worth more than a human life.
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世界上没有一块石头
比人的生命更有价值。
比人的生命更有价值。
13:54
I am a Jewish Moor
who lives among Christians
who lives among Christians
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我是生活在基督徒中的
一个犹太摩尔人，
一个犹太摩尔人，
我不知道上帝是谁
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
14:01
I don't know who my God is,
nor who my brothers are.
nor who my brothers are.
250
829834
6864
我不知道上帝是谁
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
14:10
I don't know who my God is,
nor who my brothers are.
nor who my brothers are.
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没有一个离世不使我感到痛苦，
生命中没有胜利者。
生命中没有胜利者。
14:19
There is not one death that does not
cause me pain, there are no winners
cause me pain, there are no winners
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5531
这里除了苦难，别无其他，
另一个生命正悄然逝去。
另一个生命正悄然逝去。
14:27
there's nothing but suffering
and another life blown away.
and another life blown away.
253
855020
6022
14:34
War is a terrible school
no matter what the disguise,
no matter what the disguise,
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5814
战争是所可怕的学校
不管它的伪装是什么。
不管它的伪装是什么。
14:41
forgive me for not enlisting
under any flag,
under any flag,
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5532
原谅我不站在
任何一个阵营旗下，
任何一个阵营旗下，
14:48
any daydream is worth more
than a sad piece of cloth.
than a sad piece of cloth.
256
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6897
何况白日梦也比
那一片可悲的布更有价值。
那一片可悲的布更有价值。
14:57
I am a Jewish Moor
who lives among Christians
who lives among Christians
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我是生活在基督徒中的
一个犹太摩尔人，
一个犹太摩尔人，
我不知道上帝是谁
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
15:04
I don't know who my God is,
nor who my brothers are.
nor who my brothers are.
258
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6740
15:12
I don't know who my God is,
nor who my brothers are.
nor who my brothers are.
259
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6176
我不知道上帝是谁，
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
15:25
And nobody has my permission
to for killing in my name,
to for killing in my name,
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5001
没人能够得到我的允许
以我的名义去杀戮，
以我的名义去杀戮，
人不过只是人本身，
如果上帝真的存在，这会是他的期愿，
如果上帝真的存在，这会是他的期愿，
15:33
a man is but a man
and if there is a God, this was his wish,
and if there is a God, this was his wish,
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6159
15:40
the very ground I tread
will live on, once I am gone
will live on, once I am gone
262
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5934
脚下的土地依旧存在，
一旦我离开
一旦我离开
15:47
on my way to oblivion, and all doctrines
will suffer the same fate,
will suffer the same fate,
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5729
前往遗忘之路，
所有的信条将遭受同样的命运。
所有的信条将遭受同样的命运。
15:54
and there is not one nation
that has not proclaimed itself
that has not proclaimed itself
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所有民族都声称
它是上帝选中的子民。
15:59
the chosen people.
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2971
16:03
I am a Jewish Moor
who lives among Christians
who lives among Christians
266
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6975
我是生活在基督徒中的
一个犹太摩尔人。
一个犹太摩尔人。
16:10
I don't know who my God is,
nor who my brothers are.
nor who my brothers are.
267
958806
6961
我不知道上帝是谁
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
我不知道上帝是谁
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
也不知道我的兄弟是谁。
16:19
I don't know who my God is,
nor who my brothers are.
nor who my brothers are.
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我是生活在基督徒中的
一个犹太摩尔人。
一个犹太摩尔人。
16:24
I am a Jewish Moor
who lives among Christians
who lives among Christians
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（鼓掌）
16:32
(Applause)
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1400
16:33
Thank you.
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谢谢。
16:34
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jorge Drexler - Musician, poetJorge Drexler is a musician and the first Uruguayan to win an Oscar. His music plays with genre and influence, combining subtle harmonies and regional styles with electronic effects.
Why you should listen
Jorge Drexler doesn't lay claim to one identity over another. Born to a German-Jewish exile father and a Uruguayan mother, Drexler grew up in Uruguay, traveled widely across Latin America and eventually settled in Spain. Within his music, you can hear touches of milonga and bossa nova and even Bach, as his lyrics wrangle with notions of nationality and belonging, language, identity and love.
Like both of his parents, Drexler started his career as a physician, but at the age of 30, he decided to pursue music full-time. The release of his fifth album, Frontera, caught the attention of Brazilian director Walter Salles, who tapped him to write the closing song for the 2004 film Motorcycle Diaries. Titled "Al Otro Lado del Río" (The Other Side of the River), the song won Drexler an Academy Award for Best Original Song and propelled him into the international spotlight.
Over the course of his 25-year career, Jorge Drexler has produced 12 albums, received 15 Latin Grammy nomination (with two wins in 2014 Record of the Year and Best Singer-Songwriter Album), four US Grammy nominations, 5 ASCAP Latin Awards, and one Academy Award. He has also collaborated with musicians from Shakira to Mercedes Sosa to Neneh Cherry and Jovanotti.
Jorge Drexler | Speaker | TED.com