ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Jonathan Haidt - Social psychologist
Jonathan Haidt studies how -- and why -- we evolved to be moral and political creatures.

Why you should listen

By understanding more about our moral psychology and its biases, Jonathan Haidt says we can design better institutions (including companies, universities and democracy itself), and we can learn to be more civil and open-minded toward those who are not on our team.

Haidt is a social psychologist whose research on morality across cultures led to his 2008 TED Talk on the psychological roots of the American culture war, and his 2013 TED Talk on how "common threats can make common ground." In both of those talks he asks, "Can't we all disagree more constructively?" Haidt's 2012 TED Talk explored the intersection of his work on morality with his work on happiness to talk about "hive psychology" -- the ability that humans have to lose themselves in groups pursuing larger projects, almost like bees in a hive. This hivish ability is crucial, he argues, for understanding the origins of morality, politics, and religion. These are ideas that Haidt develops at greater length in his book, The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.

Haidt joined New York University Stern School of Business in July 2011. He is the Thomas Cooley Professor of Ethical Leadership, based in the Business and Society Program. Before coming to Stern, Professor Haidt taught for 16 years at the University of Virginia in the department of psychology.

Haidt's writings appear frequently in the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. He was named one of the top global thinkers by Foreign Policy magazine and by Prospect magazine. Haidt received a B.A. in Philosophy from Yale University, and an M.A. and Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania.

More profile about the speaker
Jonathan Haidt | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com
TEDNYC

Jonathan Haidt: Can a divided America heal?

強納森 · 海特: 已分化的美國能癒合嗎?

Filmed:
2,005,570 views

經歷了 2016 年一場負面而分化的總統選舉,美國如何能夠恢復呢?社會心理學家強納森 · 海特探究了我們作政治選擇時,所立基於的道德基礎。在與 TED 策展人克里斯 · 安德森的對談中,海特闡釋了造成美國這樣分化的思維模式和歷史因素-同時亦提出了一份願景,這個國家可以如何向前邁進。
- Social psychologist
Jonathan Haidt studies how -- and why -- we evolved to be moral and political creatures. Full bio - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Chris克裡斯 Anderson安德森: So, Jon喬恩, this feels感覺 scary害怕.
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克里斯·安德森:
所以,強,這感覺蠻可怕的。
強納森海特:是啊。
00:15
Jonathan喬納森 Haidt海特: Yeah.
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克:目前世界感覺像是在一種
00:16
CACA: It feels感覺 like the world世界 is in a place地點
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00:18
that we haven't沒有 seen看到 for a long time.
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我們很久沒有經歷過的狀態。
00:20
People don't just disagree不同意
in the way that we're familiar with,
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人們不只是以我們熟悉的方式
00:24
on the left-right左右 political政治 divide劃分.
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不認同左派右派的政治分裂,
00:26
There are much deeper更深 differences分歧 afoot在進行中.
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還有更深的歧異在發生中。
00:29
What on earth地球 is going on,
and how did we get here?
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這到底是怎麼回事,
而我們又是怎麼走到這一步?
強:這次是不一樣,
00:33
JHJH: This is different不同.
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好像有大災難要降臨的感覺。
00:36
There's a much more
apocalyptic世界末日 sort分類 of feeling感覺.
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皮尤研究中心的調查研究顯示,
00:39
Survey調查 research研究 by Pew座位 Research研究 shows節目
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00:41
that the degree to which哪一個 we feel
that the other side is not just --
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我們對另一方的感覺不只是…
00:45
we don't just dislike反感 them;
we strongly非常 dislike反感 them,
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我們不只是不喜歡他們;
我們很強烈地不喜歡他們。
00:48
and we think that they are
a threat威脅 to the nation國家.
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而且我們認為他們是對國家的威脅。
00:51
Those numbers數字 have been going up and up,
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這些數字不斷在上升,
雙方的數字都已經高過 50%。
00:53
and those are over 50 percent百分
now on both sides雙方.
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人們很恐懼,
00:56
People are scared害怕,
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因為這個感覺和以往不同;
比以前更強烈。
00:57
because it feels感覺 like this is different不同
than before; it's much more intense激烈.
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當我在看任何一種社會難題時,
01:01
Whenever每當 I look
at any sort分類 of social社會 puzzle難題,
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我都是應用道德心理學的
三項基本原則,
01:04
I always apply應用 the three basic基本
principles原則 of moral道德 psychology心理學,
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我認為在這裡也能有幫助。
01:07
and I think they'll他們會 help us here.
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01:09
So the first thing that you
have to always keep in mind心神
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在思考政治問題時,
你一定要謹記的第一件事是
01:11
when you're thinking思維 about politics政治
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01:13
is that we're tribal部落的.
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我們都有部落性格。
01:15
We evolved進化 for tribalism部落.
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我們靠部落意識演化至今。
01:16
One of the simplest簡單 and greatest最大
insights見解 into human人的 social社會 nature性質
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關於人類的社會天性,
最簡單且最偉大的名言
01:19
is the Bedouin貝都因人 proverb諺語:
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是一句貝多因諺語:
01:20
"Me against反對 my brother哥哥;
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「我對抗我的兄弟;
我和我的兄弟一起
對抗我們的表兄弟;
01:22
me and my brother哥哥 against反對 our cousin表姐;
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01:24
me and my brother哥哥 and cousins表兄弟
against反對 the stranger陌生人."
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我和我的兄弟和表兄弟們
一起對抗陌生人。」
01:26
And that tribalism部落 allowed允許 us
to create創建 large societies社會
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那個部落意識使我們
創造出大型社會,
01:31
and to come together一起
in order訂購 to compete競爭 with others其他.
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使我們結合在一起來與其他人抗爭。
01:34
That brought us out of the jungle叢林
and out of small groups,
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它使我們脫離叢林、脫離小團體,
01:38
but it means手段 that we have
eternal永恆 conflict衝突.
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但那意味著我們永遠會有衝突。
01:40
The question you have to look at is:
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你需要探討的問題是:
我們社會的哪些面向
使這些衝突更激烈,
01:42
What aspects方面 of our society社會
are making製造 that more bitter,
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哪些能使衝突平靜下來?
01:44
and what are calming平靜 them down?
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01:46
CACA: That's a very dark黑暗 proverb諺語.
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克:那是個非常黑暗的諺語。
你的意思是,實際上那是大部份人
天生就或多或少具有的心理面?
01:47
You're saying that that's actually其實
baked烘烤的 into most people's人們 mental心理 wiring接線
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01:52
at some level水平?
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強:喔,絕對是。這只是
人類社會認知的一個基本面向。
01:53
JHJH: Oh, absolutely絕對. This is just
a basic基本 aspect方面 of human人的 social社會 cognition認識.
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但,我們也能
非常和平地住在一起,
01:57
But we can also live生活 together一起
really peacefully安然,
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而且我們發明了各種
有趣的活動,例如玩戰爭遊戲…
01:59
and we've我們已經 invented發明 all kinds
of fun開玩笑 ways方法 of, like, playing播放 war戰爭.
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我是指運動、政治…
02:02
I mean, sports體育, politics政治 --
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我們以這些方式來
體現我們的部落天性,
02:04
these are all ways方法 that we get
to exercise行使 this tribal部落的 nature性質
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而不會真正傷到任何人。
02:08
without actually其實 hurting傷害 anyone任何人.
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我們也很擅長貿易、
探索、認識新人。
02:09
We're also really good at trade貿易
and exploration勘探 and meeting會議 new people.
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所以你要知道我們的部落意識
是會上下起伏的,
02:14
So you have to see our tribalism部落
as something that goes up or down --
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而不是我們注定會一直彼此對抗,
02:17
it's not like we're doomed注定
to always be fighting戰鬥 each other,
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永遠不會有世界和平。
02:20
but we'll never have world世界 peace和平.
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02:22
CACA: The size尺寸 of that tribe部落
can shrink收縮 or expand擴大.
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克:部落的大小可以縮小或擴大。
強:是的。
02:26
JHJH: Right.
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克:我們所認定的「我們」、
02:27
CACA: The size尺寸 of what we consider考慮 "us"
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02:29
and what we consider考慮 "other" or "them"
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以及我們所認定的
「其他人」或「他們」,
02:31
can change更改.
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大小都可能會改變。
02:34
And some people believed相信 that process處理
could continue繼續 indefinitely無限期.
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有些人相信,這個過程
可能無限期地持續下去。
強:沒錯。
02:40
JHJH: That's right.
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克:我們的確持續在擴展這個部落。
02:41
CACA: And we were indeed確實 expanding擴大
the sense of tribe部落 for a while.
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強:所以,我認為,
02:44
JHJH: So this is, I think,
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02:45
where we're getting得到 at what's possibly或者
the new left-right左右 distinction分別.
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我們應該要去了解
可能有種新的左右派區別。
02:49
I mean, the left-right左右
as we've我們已經 all inherited遺傳 it,
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我們大家目前承襲的左右派觀念
來自勞方對抗資方,
02:51
comes out of the labor勞動
versus capital首都 distinction分別,
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02:54
and the working加工 class, and Marx馬克思.
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勞動階級和馬克思主義。
02:56
But I think what we're seeing眼看
now, increasingly日益,
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但我認為我們現在越來越會看到
02:59
is a divide劃分 in all the Western西 democracies民主
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所有西方民主的分化,
03:01
between之間 the people
who want to stop at nation國家,
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一端是觀念止於國家的人,
03:05
the people who are more parochial教區 --
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比較具有地方觀念的人…
03:07
and I don't mean that in a bad way --
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我沒有任何負面的意思…
03:09
people who have much more
of a sense of being存在 rooted,
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更有紮根觀念的人,
03:12
they care關心 about their town,
their community社區 and their nation國家.
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他們關心他們的鎮、
他們的社區、他們的國家。
03:15
And then those who are
anti-parochial反狹隘 and who --
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另一端則是反地方觀念的人,
03:19
whenever每當 I get confused困惑, I just think
of the John約翰 Lennon列儂 song歌曲 "Imagine想像."
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每當我搞混時,我就想
約翰藍儂的歌「想像」:
「想像沒有國家,
沒有殺戮或戰死的理由。」
03:23
"Imagine想像 there's no countries國家,
nothing to kill or die for."
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所以這些人想要比較全球性的治理,
03:26
And so these are the people
who want more global全球 governance治理,
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03:29
they don't like nation國家 states狀態,
they don't like borders國界.
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他們不喜歡分國家、
他們不喜歡邊界。
你在歐洲也到處都能看到。
03:32
You see this all over Europe歐洲 as well.
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有個名字叫莎士比亞的
偉大的比喻家
03:33
There's a great metaphor隱喻 guy --
actually其實, his name名稱 is Shakespeare莎士比亞 --
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03:37
writing寫作 ten years年份 ago in Britain英國.
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十年前在英國寫作,
他有個比喻:
03:38
He had a metaphor隱喻:
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03:39
"Are we drawbridge-uppers吊橋,鞋面
or drawbridge-downers吊橋,鎮靜劑?"
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「我們把開合橋向上拉
或是向下放?」
那時英國人在那點的比例
是 52 對 48。
03:43
And Britain英國 is divided分為
52-48 on that point.
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03:46
And America美國 is divided分為 on that point, too.
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美國對這點也是分化的。
克:所以,我們這些
和披頭四一起長大的人,
03:49
CACA: And so, those of us
who grew成長 up with The Beatles披頭士樂隊
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03:52
and that sort分類 of hippie嬉皮士 philosophy哲學
of dreaming做夢 of a more connected連接的 world世界 --
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有著嬉皮哲學,
夢想著比較連結的世界,
覺得很理想,且認為「怎麼
可能有人會把它做負面解讀?」
03:56
it felt so idealistic理想主義 and "how could
anyone任何人 think badly about that?"
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04:00
And what you're saying is that, actually其實,
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你說的是,其實,
現今有數百萬人
覺得那不只是愚蠢;
04:02
millions百萬 of people today今天
feel that that isn't just silly愚蠢;
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04:07
it's actually其實 dangerous危險 and wrong錯誤,
and they're scared害怕 of it.
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還是危險且錯誤的,
並且他們對此感到恐懼。
強:我認為…特別是在歐洲,
但這裡也是一樣…
04:09
JHJH: I think the big issue問題, especially特別
in Europe歐洲 but also here,
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重要議題是移民問題。
04:13
is the issue問題 of immigration移民.
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我認為在此我們得要非常小心
04:14
And I think this is where
we have to look very carefully小心
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04:17
at the social社會 science科學
about diversity多樣 and immigration移民.
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去看待關於多樣化
與移民的社會科學。
04:21
Once一旦 something becomes politicized政治,
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任何事一旦被政治化,
04:22
once一旦 it becomes something
that the left loves and the right --
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一旦變成是左派喜歡、而右派…
甚至社會科學家對此
也無法清楚地思考。
04:25
then even the social社會 scientists科學家們
can't think straight直行 about it.
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多樣化在很多方面是好事。
04:29
Now, diversity多樣 is good in a lot of ways方法.
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它顯然創造了更多的創新,
04:31
It clearly明確地 creates創建 more innovation革新.
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04:33
The American美國 economy經濟
has grown長大的 enormously巨大 from it.
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美國經濟因為它而大大成長。
多樣性和移民帶來很多好處。
04:35
Diversity多樣 and immigration移民
do a lot of good things.
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但,全球主義者看不到,
04:38
But what the globalists全球主義者,
I think, don't see,
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他們也不想看到的是,
04:40
what they don't want to see,
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04:42
is that ethnic民族 diversity多樣
cuts削減 social社會 capital首都 and trust相信.
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種族多樣性會削減
社會資本和互相的信任。
04:48
There's a very important重要
study研究 by Robert羅伯特 Putnam派特南,
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羅勃·普南有一個非常重要的研究,
04:51
the author作者 of "Bowling保齡球 Alone單獨,"
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他是《獨自打保齡球》的作者,
這研究探究了社會資本資料庫。
04:52
looking at social社會 capital首都 databases數據庫.
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基本上,越多人認為他們是相同的,
04:54
And basically基本上, the more people
feel that they are the same相同,
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04:57
the more they trust相信 each other,
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他們越信任彼此,
他們就會成為財富重新分配的國家。
04:59
the more they can have
a redistributionistredistributionist welfare福利 state.
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斯堪的納維亞國家如此美好
05:02
Scandinavian斯堪的納維亞 countries國家 are so wonderful精彩
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是因為它們一直保有著
同質的小國家傳統,
05:04
because they have this legacy遺產
of being存在 small, homogenous均質 countries國家.
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05:07
And that leads引線 to
a progressive進步 welfare福利 state,
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使它們持續進步成為福利國家,
05:11
a set of progressive進步
left-leaning左傾 values, which哪一個 says,
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擁有一組進步的左傾價值觀,吶喊著:
05:14
"Drawbridge吊橋 down!
The world世界 is a great place地點.
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「把開合橋放下來!
世界是個很棒的地方。
05:17
People in Syria敘利亞 are suffering痛苦 --
we must必須 welcome歡迎 them in."
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敘利亞的人民在受苦,
我們必須歡迎他們進來。」
那是件很美好的事。
05:20
And it's a beautiful美麗 thing.
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05:21
But if, and I was in Sweden瑞典
this summer夏季,
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但,如果今年夏天我在瑞典,
如果這說法在瑞典
是相當政治正確的,
05:24
if the discourse演講 in Sweden瑞典
is fairly相當 politically政治上 correct正確
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而且他們無法談論不利面,
05:27
and they can't talk about the downsides缺點,
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結果你就會帶進很多人。
05:30
you end結束 up bringing使 a lot of people in.
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05:32
That's going to cut social社會 capital首都,
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那將會削減社會資本,
就很難仍是福利國家,
05:33
it makes品牌 it hard to have a welfare福利 state
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他們可能最後會和美國一樣,
05:35
and they might威力 end結束 up,
as we have in America美國,
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成為種族分化、
明顯可見的種族分化的社會。
05:38
with a racially種族 divided分為, visibly明顯地
racially種族 divided分為, society社會.
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所以談論這些讓人很不舒服。
05:41
So this is all very
uncomfortable不舒服 to talk about.
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但我認為,特別是歐洲,
我們也是,要正視這個議題。
05:44
But I think this is the thing,
especially特別 in Europe歐洲 and for us, too,
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但我認為,特別是歐洲,我們也是,
要正視這個議題。
05:47
we need to be looking at.
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克:你是說,那些理性的人,
05:48
CACA: You're saying that people of reason原因,
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05:50
people who would consider考慮
themselves他們自己 not racists種族主義者,
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自認為不是種族主義者,
而是有道德、正直的人,
05:53
but moral道德, upstanding正直 people,
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有理由可以說,人類就是太不同了;
05:55
have a rationale合理 that says
humans人類 are just too different不同;
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以致於若把太不同的人混合在一起,
05:58
that we're in danger危險 of overloading超載
our sense of what humans人類 are capable of,
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我們可能要面對不知道
人們會做出什麼的危險。
06:03
by mixing混合 in people who are too different不同.
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強:是的,但我可以
把它說得更容易明白。
06:06
JHJH: Yes, but I can make it
much more palatable可口
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06:09
by saying it's not necessarily一定 about race種族.
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分化不一定與種族有關。
它與文化有關。
06:12
It's about culture文化.
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有位名為凱倫·史坦納得政治科學家
做了一項很棒的研究。
06:14
There's wonderful精彩 work by a political政治
scientist科學家 named命名 Karen卡倫 Stenner施滕納,
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這個研究指出當人們覺得
06:18
who shows節目 that when people have a sense
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06:21
that we are all united聯合的,
we're all the same相同,
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我們全都團結一致,
我們都一樣,
06:23
there are many許多 people who have
a predisposition傾向 to authoritarianism獨裁主義.
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就會有很多人本來傾向於
專制獨裁主義。
當這些人覺得當我們的社會
與道德秩序似乎不會受到威脅時,
06:27
Those people aren't particularly尤其 racist種族主義者
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06:29
when they feel as through通過
there's not a threat威脅
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06:31
to our social社會 and moral道德 order訂購.
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他們不見得是種族主義者。
06:33
But if you prime主要 them experimentally實驗
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但如果你實驗性地先讓他們
06:35
by thinking思維 we're coming未來 apart距離,
people are getting得到 more different不同,
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認為我們逐漸在分化,
人們越來越不同,
那時他們會比較有種族主義、
仇視同性戀,要把異類趕出去。
06:38
then they get more racist種族主義者, homophobic同性戀,
they want to kick out the deviants離經叛道.
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06:41
So it's in part部分 that you get
an authoritarian獨裁的 reaction反應.
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所以在這部分會有獨裁主義的反應。
06:44
The left, following以下 through通過
the Lennonist倫多裡主義者 line --
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那些堅持藍儂主義路線的左派──
06:47
the John約翰 Lennon列儂 line --
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約翰·藍儂路線──
06:48
does things that create創建
an authoritarian獨裁的 reaction反應.
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會做出造成獨裁主義反應的事。
我們在美國的另類右派看到這現象。
06:50
We're certainly當然 seeing眼看 that
in America美國 with the alt-rightALT-權.
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我們在英國看到,
我們在歐洲各處都看到這個現象。
06:53
We saw it in Britain英國,
we've我們已經 seen看到 it all over Europe歐洲.
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但比較正面的部份是,
06:56
But the more positive part部分 of that
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我認為本土派份子,
或國家主義者,其實是對的。
06:58
is that I think the localists地方主義者,
or the nationalists民族主義者, are actually其實 right --
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07:03
that, if you emphasize注重
our cultural文化 similarity相似,
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如果你強調我們的文化相似性,
種族其實沒那麼重要。
07:07
then race種族 doesn't actually其實
matter very much.
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所以用社會同化的方式處理移民,
能消除很多這些問題。
07:09
So an assimilationist同化
approach途徑 to immigration移民
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所以用社會同化的方式處理移民,
能消除很多這些問題。
07:12
removes移除了 a lot of these problems問題.
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07:13
And if you value having
a generous慷慨 welfare福利 state,
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如果你想要有個慷慨的福利國家,
你必須強調我們都是一樣的。
07:16
you've got to emphasize注重
that we're all the same相同.
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克:好,所以目前分化的成因之一
07:18
CACA: OK, so rising升起 immigration移民
and fears恐懼 about that
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07:21
are one of the causes原因
of the current當前 divide劃分.
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是越來越多移民,
以及人們對此狀況的恐懼。
07:25
What are other causes原因?
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其他成因是什麼?
07:26
JHJH: The next下一個 principle原理 of moral道德 psychology心理學
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強:道德心理學的下一個原則
07:28
is that intuitions直覺 come first,
strategic戰略 reasoning推理 second第二.
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是人們的直覺會先發生,
然後策略性推理才跟進。
07:32
You've probably大概 heard聽說
the term術語 "motivated動機 reasoning推理"
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你可能聽過「動機性推理」
07:35
or "confirmation確認 bias偏壓."
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或「確認偏誤」這些詞。
07:36
There's some really interesting有趣 work
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有個很有趣的研究在探討
07:38
on how our high intelligence情報
and our verbal口頭 abilities能力
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我們的高度智慧以及言語能力
07:41
might威力 have evolved進化
not to help us find out the truth真相,
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可能演化成不是協助我們找到真相,
07:45
but to help us manipulate操作 each other,
defend保衛 our reputation聲譽 ...
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而是協助我們操弄彼此、
捍衛我們的名聲…
07:48
We're really, really good
at justifying理由 ourselves我們自己.
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我們非常非常擅長爲自己辯護。
07:51
And when you bring帶來
group interests利益 into account帳戶,
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當你把群體利益納入考量,
07:53
so it's not just me,
it's my team球隊 versus your team球隊,
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那就不只是我一人,
而是我的團隊對抗你的團隊,
在評估證明你那一方錯的證據時,
07:56
whereas if you're evaluating評估 evidence證據
that your side is wrong錯誤,
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07:59
we just can't accept接受 that.
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我們就是無法接受。
08:01
So this is why you can't win贏得
a political政治 argument論據.
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這就是為什麼
在政治爭執中你贏不了。
08:03
If you're debating辯論 something,
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如果你在辯論某事,
08:05
you can't persuade說服 the person
with reasons原因 and evidence證據,
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你不可能以理由和證據說服對方,
08:08
because that's not
the way reasoning推理 works作品.
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因為推理不是這樣運作的。
08:10
So now, give us the internet互聯網,
give us Google谷歌:
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現在,我們有互聯網、
有 Google:
08:14
"I heard聽說 that Barack巴拉克 Obama奧巴馬
was born天生 in Kenya肯尼亞.
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「我聽說歐巴馬在肯亞出生,
讓我 Google 一下。
08:17
Let me Google谷歌 that -- oh my God!
10 million百萬 hits點擊! Look, he was!"
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天啊!點閱率有千萬!那就是真的!」
08:21
CACA: So this has come as an unpleasant不愉快
surprise to a lot of people.
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克:所以對很多人來說,
這是不愉快的驚喜。
社交媒體常常被
科技樂觀主義者給塑造成
08:24
Social社會 media媒體 has often經常 been framed陷害
by techno-optimistsTECHNO-樂觀
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08:27
as this great connecting force
that would bring帶來 people together一起.
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一股能讓人們團結的偉大動力。
08:32
And there have been some
unexpected意外 counter-effects反效果 to that.
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但它也造成了一些未預期的反效果。
08:36
JHJH: That's right.
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強:是的。這就是為什麼我很喜歡
08:38
That's why I'm very enamored迷戀
of yin-yang陰陽 views意見
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以陰陽和左右來
分析人類天性的觀點──
08:40
of human人的 nature性質 and left-right左右 --
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08:42
that each side is right
about certain某些 things,
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每一方都對某些事有正確的看法,
08:44
but then it goes blind to other things.
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但他們對其他事是盲目的。
08:46
And so the left generally通常 believes相信
that human人的 nature性質 is good:
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所以一般來說左派相信人性本善:
08:49
bring帶來 people together一起, knock down
the walls牆壁 and all will be well.
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團結、拆除圍牆,一切就會很好;
一般來說,右派──
社會保守派、非自由主義者,
08:52
The right -- social社會 conservatives保守派,
not libertarians自由主義者 --
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08:55
social社會 conservatives保守派 generally通常
believe people can be greedy貪婪
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相信人們很貪婪、性衝動、自私,
08:59
and sexual有性 and selfish自私,
195
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09:01
and we need regulation,
and we need restrictions限制.
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我們需要規定,我們需要限制。
09:04
So, yeah, if you knock down all the walls牆壁,
197
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所以,是的,如果你拆了所有圍牆,
09:06
allow允許 people to communicate通信
all over the world世界,
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讓全世界的人能夠溝通,
你會得到很多色情片和種族主義。
09:08
you get a lot of pornA片 and a lot of racism種族主義.
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克:請爲我們澄清一下。
這些人類天性…
09:10
CACA: So help us understand理解.
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09:12
These principles原則 of human人的 nature性質
have been with us forever永遠.
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本來就一直存在。
到底是哪些改變
加深了這個分化的感覺?
09:18
What's changed that's deepened加深
this feeling感覺 of division?
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強:這裡有六到十條
不同的脈絡匯集在一起,
09:24
JHJH: You have to see six to ten
different不同 threads線程 all coming未來 together一起.
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09:29
I'll just list名單 a couple一對 of them.
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我就只談其中幾條。
09:31
So in America美國, one of the big --
actually其實, America美國 and Europe歐洲 --
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在美國,
其實應該說在美國與歐洲,
09:35
one of the biggest最大 ones那些 is World世界 War戰爭 IIII.
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最重大的一條就是第二次大戰。
約翰·漢里克與其他人
做了個有趣的研究,
09:37
There's interesting有趣 research研究
from Joe Henrich亨裡奇 and others其他
207
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09:40
that says if your country國家 was at war戰爭,
208
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研究指出,如果你的國家正在打仗,
09:42
especially特別 when you were young年輕,
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特別是在你年輕的時候,
09:44
then we test測試 you 30 years年份 later後來
in a commons公地 dilemma困境
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在三十年後讓你做公共困境測驗
09:47
or a prisoner's囚犯 dilemma困境,
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或是囚徒困境測驗,
09:49
you're more cooperative合作社.
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你會比較合作。
09:50
Because of our tribal部落的 nature性質, if you're --
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因為部落的天性,如果你…
09:53
my parents父母 were teenagers青少年
during World世界 War戰爭 IIII,
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在二次大戰時,
我的父母還是青少年,
09:56
and they would go out
looking for scraps下腳料 of aluminum
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他們會出去尋找廢棄鋁製物,
09:59
to help the war戰爭 effort功夫.
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以協助戰爭。
10:00
I mean, everybody每個人 pulled together一起.
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大家同心協力。
10:02
And so then these people go on,
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這些人長大成人後,
10:04
they rise上升 up through通過 business商業
and government政府,
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他們在事業上及政府機關內
取得領導級的位置。
10:06
they take leadership領導 positions位置.
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10:08
They're really good
at compromise妥協 and cooperation合作.
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他們非常擅長妥協與合作。
到了 90 年代他們都退休了。
10:11
They all retire退休 by the '90s.
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10:13
So we're left with baby寶寶 boomers
by the end結束 of the '90s.
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90 年代末期,我們就只有
嬰兒潮時代出生的人,
10:17
And their youth青年 was spent花費 fighting戰鬥
each other within each country國家,
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他們的年輕時光
都花在自己國家的內部抗爭。
10:21
in 1968 and afterwards之後.
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那是在 1986 年及那以後。
10:22
The loss失利 of the World世界 War戰爭 IIII generation,
"The Greatest最大 Generation,"
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所以,失去二戰大戰世代,
即「最偉大的世代」的損失
10:26
is huge巨大.
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非常大。
10:28
So that's one.
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這是其一。
10:30
Another另一個, in America美國,
is the purification純化 of the two parties派對.
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在美國,另一條脈絡是兩黨派的淨化。
他們以前是開放的共和黨員
及保守的民主黨員。
10:33
There used to be liberal自由主義的 Republicans共和黨人
and conservative保守 Democrats民主黨.
230
621949
3047
所以在二十世紀中期,
美國是真的兩黨化的。
10:37
So America美國 had a mid-中-20th century世紀
that was really bipartisan兩黨.
231
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10:40
But because of a variety品種 of factors因素
that started開始 things moving移動,
232
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4367
但由於各種因素讓一切開始變動,
到了 90 年代,我們有了
淨化後的自由黨派及保守黨派。
10:44
by the 90's, we had a purified淨化的
liberal自由主義的 party派對 and conservative保守 party派對.
233
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10:48
So now, the people in either party派對
really are different不同,
234
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2645
所以,現在,兩黨派的人很不同。
我們雙方真的不希望
我們的孩子彼此結婚,
10:50
and we really don't want
our children孩子 to marry結婚 them,
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2483
在 60 年代時,這沒那麼重要。
10:53
which哪一個, in the '60s,
didn't matter very much.
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所以,這是黨派的淨化。
10:55
So, the purification純化 of the parties派對.
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第三條脈絡是互聯網,如我前面所說,
10:57
Third第三 is the internet互聯網 and, as I said,
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10:59
it's just the most amazing驚人 stimulant刺激物
for post-hoc事後 reasoning推理 and demonization妖魔化.
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對於事後推論及妖魔化而言,
互聯網是最驚人的刺激物。
11:04
CACA: The tone of what's happening事件
on the internet互聯網 now is quite相當 troubling令人不安.
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克:互聯網現況讓人十分不安。
11:09
I just did a quick search搜索
on Twitter推特 about the election選舉
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我在 Twitter 上做了一個
關於選舉的快速研究,
11:12
and saw two tweets微博 next下一個 to each other.
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看到兩個推特訊息並列。
11:15
One, against反對 a picture圖片 of racist種族主義者 graffiti塗鴉:
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一個是針對一張種族歧視塗鴉的圖片:
11:20
"This is disgusting討厭!
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「這讓人厭惡!
11:21
Ugliness醜陋 in this country國家,
brought to us by #Trump王牌."
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這是#川普帶給這個國家的醜陋面。」
11:25
And then the next下一個 one is:
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下一則則是:
「騙子希拉蕊專屬網頁。
讓人厭惡!」
11:27
"Crooked Hillary希拉里
dedication貢獻 page. Disgusting討厭!"
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11:31
So this idea理念 of "disgust厭惡"
is troubling令人不安 to me.
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這個「讓人厭惡」的想法
讓我覺得憂慮。
11:35
Because you can have an argument論據
or a disagreement異議 about something,
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因為你可以爭論或是不同意某事,
11:38
you can get angry憤怒 at someone有人.
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你可以對某人生氣。
11:41
Disgust厭惡, I've heard聽說 you say,
takes things to a much deeper更深 level水平.
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我聽到你說,厭惡會把狀況
帶到更深的層級。
11:44
JHJH: That's right. Disgust厭惡 is different不同.
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強:對的。厭惡是不同的。
11:46
Anger憤怒 -- you know, I have kids孩子.
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生氣…你知道,我有孩子。
11:48
They fight鬥爭 10 times a day,
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他們每天會吵架十次,
11:50
and they love each other 30 times a day.
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他們每天愛彼此三十次。
你只是來來回回,
你生氣了,你不氣了;
11:52
You just go back and forth向前:
you get angry憤怒, you're not angry憤怒;
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你生氣了,你不氣了;
11:55
you're angry憤怒, you're not angry憤怒.
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但厭惡不同。
11:56
But disgust厭惡 is different不同.
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11:58
Disgust厭惡 paints油漆 the person
as subhuman類人的, monstrous滔天,
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厭惡會把對方描繪成
低於人類的、如怪物的、
12:02
deformed變形, morally道德 deformed變形.
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畸形的、道德上畸形的。
12:04
Disgust厭惡 is like indelible不可磨滅 ink墨水.
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厭惡就像…難以抹除的墨水。
約翰·葛特曼做了一個
關於婚姻治療的研究,
12:07
There's research研究 from John約翰 Gottman高特曼
on marital婚姻 therapy治療.
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如果你看面孔…如果夫妻中
有一人展現出厭惡或輕視,
12:11
If you look at the faces面孔 -- if one
of the couple一對 shows節目 disgust厭惡 or contempt鄙視,
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你就可以預言他們很快會離婚;
12:16
that's a predictor預報器 that they're going
to get divorced離婚 soon不久,
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12:19
whereas if they show顯示 anger憤怒,
that doesn't predict預測 anything,
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但如果他們呈現的是生氣,
就無法預言任何事,
因為如果你能好好處理生氣,
它其實是好的。
12:22
because if you deal合同 with anger憤怒 well,
it actually其實 is good.
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這個選舉是不同的。
12:25
So this election選舉 is different不同.
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川普本人就常常使用
「厭惡」這個字,
12:26
Donald唐納德 Trump王牌 personally親自
uses使用 the word "disgust厭惡" a lot.
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12:30
He's very germ-sensitive細菌敏感,
so disgust厭惡 does matter a lot --
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他對細菌很敏感,所以對他而言,
厭惡確實很重要,
那是他獨有的東西…
12:33
more for him, that's something
unique獨特 to him --
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12:37
but as we demonize妖魔化 each other more,
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但當我們越將彼此妖魔化,
12:40
and again, through通過
the Manichaean馬尼查安 worldview世界觀,
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再度透過摩尼教的世界觀,
12:43
the idea理念 that the world世界
is a battle戰鬥 between之間 good and evil邪惡
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主張世界是善惡對戰的世界觀。
12:46
as this has been ramping斜坡 up,
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隨著這種觀點加速散播,
12:47
we're more likely容易 not just to say
they're wrong錯誤 or I don't like them,
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很可能我們不只說他們錯了
或是不喜歡他們,
我們會說他們很邪惡、
他們是惡魔、
12:51
but we say they're evil邪惡, they're satanic撒旦,
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他們讓人厭惡、他們令人作嘔。
12:53
they're disgusting討厭, they're revolting令人作嘔.
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1921
12:55
And then we want nothing to do with them.
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接著,我們不要與他們
扯上任何關係。
12:58
And that's why I think we're seeing眼看 it,
for example, on campus校園 now.
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那就是為什麼我認為會看見…
比如,現在在校園中,
13:02
We're seeing眼看 more the urge敦促
to keep people off campus校園,
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我們看到更多人強烈地
將一些人趕出校園,
13:04
silence安靜 them, keep them away.
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1945
不讓他們說話,讓他們遠離。
13:06
I'm afraid害怕 that this whole整個
generation of young年輕 people,
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恐怕這整個年輕人的世代,
如果他們對政治的認識
牽涉到許多的厭惡,
13:09
if their introduction介紹 to politics政治
involves涉及 a lot of disgust厭惡,
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當他們長大時,
他們不會想要涉入政治。
13:13
they're not going to want to be involved參與
in politics政治 as they get older舊的.
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13:17
CACA: So how do we deal合同 with that?
285
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克:所以我們要如何處理厭惡?
13:19
Disgust厭惡. How do you defuse化解 disgust厭惡?
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你要如何消除厭惡感?
13:24
JHJH: You can't do it with reasons原因.
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強:你無法用講理的方式處理。
13:27
I think ...
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我認為…
我研究厭惡很多年了,
我常常會去思考情緒。
13:30
I studied研究 disgust厭惡 for many許多 years年份,
and I think about emotions情緒 a lot.
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13:33
And I think that the opposite對面
of disgust厭惡 is actually其實 love.
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我認為,厭惡的相反其實就是愛。
13:37
Love is all about, like ...
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愛就是,像…
13:41
Disgust厭惡 is closing關閉 off, borders國界.
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厭惡是關閉、設界線。
13:43
Love is about dissolving溶解 walls牆壁.
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愛則是融化牆壁。
13:47
So personal個人 relationships關係, I think,
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所以,個人關係,我認為,
13:49
are probably大概 the most
powerful強大 means手段 we have.
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可能是我們擁有最強大的手段。
13:53
You can be disgusted厭惡的 by a group of people,
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你可能會對一群人感到厭惡,
13:56
but then you meet遇到 a particular特定 person
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1918
但接著你遇到了某個特別的人,
13:57
and you genuinely真正的 discover發現
that they're lovely可愛.
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你真正發現到他們其實很美好。
14:00
And then gradually逐漸 that chips芯片 away
or changes變化 your category類別 as well.
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那會一點一滴改變你的類別。
14:06
The tragedy悲劇 is, Americans美國人 used to be
much more mixed up in the their towns城市
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悲劇是,美國人過去在鎮上
是更混雜在一起的,
14:12
by left-right左右 or politics政治.
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2134
左右派或政治上混雜在一起。
14:14
And now that it's become成為
this great moral道德 divide劃分,
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現在,那變成了很大的道德分化,
14:16
there's a lot of evidence證據
that we're moving移動 to be near people
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有很多證據顯示我們越來越去
靠近在政治上相近的人。
14:19
who are like us politically政治上.
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14:21
It's harder更難 to find somebody
who's誰是 on the other side.
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2530
很難找到在另一邊的人。
所以他們在那邊,他們很遙遠。
14:23
So they're over there, they're far away.
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14:26
It's harder更難 to get to know them.
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854101
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越來越難去認識他們。
克:對某人,或是對美國人、
14:27
CACA: What would you say to someone有人
or say to Americans美國人,
308
855695
4224
14:31
people generally通常,
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1158
對一般的人,你會如何說?
14:33
about what we should understand理解
about each other
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我們應該了解彼此的什麼
14:35
that might威力 help us rethink反思 for a minute分鐘
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3475
才能協助我們重新思考一下
14:39
this "disgust厭惡" instinct直覺?
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這個「厭惡」的直覺?
強:好的…
14:42
JHJH: Yes.
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真正要牢記在心的重點是,
14:43
A really important重要
thing to keep in mind心神 --
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2153
14:45
there's research研究 by political政治
scientist科學家 Alan艾倫 Abramowitz阿布拉莫維茨,
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4716
政治科學家艾倫·亞伯拉莫維茲
有一項研究
14:50
showing展示 that American美國 democracy民主
is increasingly日益 governed治理
316
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3993
顯示美國民主越來越被
14:54
by what's called "negative partisanship黨派之爭."
317
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2243
所謂的「消極的黨派關係」所掌控。
14:56
That means手段 you think,
OK there's a candidate候選人,
318
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3111
那表示,你會想,
好,這裡有個候選人,
你喜歡這個候選人,
你投給這個候選人。
15:00
you like the candidate候選人,
you vote投票 for the candidate候選人.
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2406
但隨著負面廣告出現,
15:02
But with the rise上升 of negative advertising廣告
320
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2059
還有社交媒體、各種其他的趨勢,
15:04
and social社會 media媒體
and all sorts排序 of other trends趨勢,
321
892523
2224
15:06
increasingly日益, the way elections選舉 are doneDONE
322
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2041
漸漸地,選舉進行的方式
15:08
is that each side tries嘗試 to make
the other side so horrible可怕, so awful可怕,
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896836
3981
變成每一方都試著讓對方
看起來很糟糕、差勁,
糟到讓你會理所當然投給我的人。
15:12
that you'll你會 vote投票 for my guy by default默認.
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900841
2041
15:15
And so as we more and more vote投票
against反對 the other side
325
903319
2970
所以隨著我們投票
越來越是反對另一方,
15:18
and not for our side,
326
906313
1331
而非支持我方,
15:19
you have to keep in mind心神
that if people are on the left,
327
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5507
你得牢記在心,如果人們是左派,
15:25
they think, "Well, I used to think
that Republicans共和黨人 were bad,
328
913199
2910
他們會想:「我以前認為共和黨很差,
15:28
but now Donald唐納德 Trump王牌 proves證明 it.
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916133
1483
現在川普證明了這一點。
15:29
And now every一切 Republican共和黨人,
I can paint塗料 with all the things
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917640
2851
現在我可以把
我對川普的看法投射到
15:32
that I think about Trump王牌."
331
920515
1382
每一個共和黨員。」
15:33
And that's not necessarily一定 true真正.
332
921921
1593
那不一定是對的。
15:35
They're generally通常 not very happy快樂
with their candidate候選人.
333
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2692
他們大多對他們的候選人不是很滿意。
這是美國史上最嚴重的
對黨派負面的選舉。
15:38
This is the most negative partisanship黨派之爭
election選舉 in American美國 history歷史.
334
926254
4716
15:43
So you have to first separate分離
your feelings情懷 about the candidate候選人
335
931860
3363
所以你首先要將你對候選人的感受,
15:47
from your feelings情懷 about the people
who are given特定 a choice選擇.
336
935247
2937
從你對那些有選擇的人的感受分開。
15:50
And then you have to realize實現 that,
337
938208
2483
接著,你得要了解,
15:53
because we all live生活
in a separate分離 moral道德 world世界 --
338
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2420
因為我們都住在
不同的道德世界中──
15:55
the metaphor隱喻 I use in the book
is that we're all trapped被困 in "The Matrix矩陣,"
339
943690
3451
我在書中用的比喻是
我們被困在《駭客任務》的母體中,
15:59
or each moral道德 community社區 is a matrix矩陣,
a consensual兩廂情願 hallucination幻覺.
340
947165
3524
或是說,每個道德社群
就是一個母體,一種交感幻覺,
16:02
And so if you're within the blue藍色 matrix矩陣,
341
950713
2243
所以如果你身在一個藍色母體中,
16:04
everything's一切的 completely全然 compelling引人注目
that the other side --
342
952980
3194
一切都非常有說服力,另一邊…
16:08
they're troglodytes穴居人, they're racists種族主義者,
they're the worst最差 people in the world世界,
343
956198
3631
他們是穴居人、種族主義者、
世界上最差的人,
16:11
and you have all the facts事實
to back that up.
344
959853
2104
你有一堆事實可以支持這想法。
16:13
But somebody in the next下一個 house from yours你的
345
961981
2275
但你隔壁鄰居
16:16
is living活的 in a different不同 moral道德 matrix矩陣.
346
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2033
住在不同的道德母體中,
16:18
They live生活 in a different不同 video視頻 game遊戲,
347
966337
1947
他們住在不同的電玩遊戲中,
16:20
and they see a completely全然
different不同 set of facts事實.
348
968308
2378
他們看見的事實完全不同。
16:22
And each one sees看到
different不同 threats威脅 to the country國家.
349
970710
2676
每個人看到對國家的威脅都不同。
16:25
And what I've found發現
from being存在 in the middle中間
350
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2090
而我身在中間試圖了解雙方時,
16:27
and trying to understand理解 both sides雙方
is: both sides雙方 are right.
351
975524
2927
我發現的是:雙方都是對的。
16:30
There are a lot of threats威脅
to this country國家,
352
978475
2120
這個國家面臨許多威脅,
而每一方在本質上
都無法看見所有的威脅。
16:32
and each side is constitutionally憲法
incapable無法 of seeing眼看 them all.
353
980619
3485
16:36
CACA: So, are you saying
that we almost幾乎 need a new type類型 of empathy同情?
354
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6519
克:所以你的意思是,
我們說是需要一種新的同理心?
16:43
Empathy同情 is traditionally傳統 framed陷害 as:
355
991506
2170
傳統的同理心是這樣的:
16:45
"Oh, I feel your pain疼痛.
I can put myself in your shoes."
356
993700
2691
「喔,我感受到你的痛。
我能站在你的立場。」
16:48
And we apply應用 it to the poor較差的,
the needy貧窮, the suffering痛苦.
357
996415
2929
我們把它用在窮人、
有需要的人、受苦的人身上,
16:52
We don't usually平時 apply應用 it
to people who we feel as other,
358
1000023
3823
我們通常不會用在那些
我們認為是「其他人」的人、
16:55
or we're disgusted厭惡的 by.
359
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1465
或我們討厭的人身上。
強:沒錯,我們不會。
16:57
JHJH: No. That's right.
360
1005359
1151
克:建立那種同理心
會是什麼樣子的?
16:58
CACA: What would it look like
to build建立 that type類型 of empathy同情?
361
1006534
4830
17:04
JHJH: Actually其實, I think ...
362
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1238
強:其實,我認為…
17:06
Empathy同情 is a very, very
hot topic話題 in psychology心理學,
363
1014145
2305
在心理學,同理心是個
非常火紅的主題,
17:08
and it's a very popular流行 word
on the left in particular特定.
364
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2658
特別是在左派,它是個熱門用詞。
同理心是件好事。
17:11
Empathy同情 is a good thing, and empathy同情
for the preferred首選 classes of victims受害者.
365
1019156
4000
偏好把同理心給予受害者。
17:15
So it's important重要 to empathize同情
366
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1453
因此,重視我們左派認為
非常重要的團體非常重要。
17:16
with the groups that we on the left
think are so important重要.
367
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2824
那很容易,因為你這麼做可以得分。
17:19
That's easy簡單 to do,
because you get points for that.
368
1027505
2531
17:22
But empathy同情 really should get you points
if you do it when it's hard to do.
369
1030442
3649
同理心應該是在
很難有同理心的情況下
產生才能夠得分才對。
17:26
And, I think ...
370
1034513
1754
而我認為…
17:28
You know, we had a long 50-year-年 period
of dealing交易 with our race種族 problems問題
371
1036291
5088
我們處理種族問題以及合法歧視
17:33
and legal法律 discrimination區別,
372
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2255
已有五十年之久了,
17:35
and that was our top最佳 priority優先
for a long time
373
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2187
那一直是我們的首要任務,
17:37
and it still is important重要.
374
1045893
1250
現在仍然很重要。
17:39
But I think this year,
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1047167
1529
但,我認為,今年,
17:40
I'm hoping希望 it will make people see
376
1048720
2404
我希望人們能夠看見
17:43
that we have an existential存在
threat威脅 on our hands.
377
1051148
2795
我們手上有個關係存在的威脅。
17:45
Our left-right左右 divide劃分, I believe,
378
1053967
2667
我相信,我們的左右派分化是
到目前為止我們面臨過最重要的分化。
17:48
is by far the most important重要
divide劃分 we face面對.
379
1056658
2160
17:50
We still have issues問題 about race種族
and gender性別 and LGBTLGBT,
380
1058842
3031
我們仍然有種族、性別、
同性雙性與跨性的議題,
17:53
but this is the urgent緊急 need
of the next下一個 50 years年份,
381
1061897
3371
但這是未來五十年的迫切需求,
17:57
and things aren't going
to get better on their own擁有.
382
1065292
2861
這些情況不會自己好轉。
所以我們得要做很多的制度改革,
18:01
So we're going to need to do
a lot of institutional制度 reforms改革,
383
1069021
2835
我們可以談那些,
18:03
and we could talk about that,
384
1071880
1409
但那會非常冗長而且不容易說清楚。
18:05
but that's like a whole整個 long,
wonky靠不住的 conversation會話.
385
1073313
2330
18:07
But I think it starts啟動 with people
realizing實現 that this is a turning車削 point.
386
1075667
3846
但我想,我們要從使人們
了解到這是個轉捩點開始。
18:11
And yes, we need a new kind of empathy同情.
387
1079537
2809
是的,我們需要一種新的同理心。
18:14
We need to realize實現:
388
1082370
1505
我們需要了解:
這是我們的國家需要的,
18:15
this is what our country國家 needs需求,
389
1083899
1542
18:17
and this is what you need
if you don't want to --
390
1085465
2354
這是你需要的,如果你不想要…
如果你想要讓接下來四年
和去年一樣生氣和擔心,
18:19
Raise提高 your hand if you want
to spend the next下一個 four years年份
391
1087843
2695
18:22
as angry憤怒 and worried擔心 as you've been
for the last year -- raise提高 your hand.
392
1090562
3486
請舉起你的手。
如果你想從這當中逃脫,
18:26
So if you want to escape逃逸 from this,
393
1094072
1705
去讀佛、去讀耶穌、去讀奧里略。
18:27
read Buddha, read Jesus耶穌,
read Marcus馬庫斯 Aurelius奧勒留.
394
1095801
2151
18:29
They have all kinds of great advice忠告
for how to drop下降 the fear恐懼,
395
1097976
5062
他們有各種很好的建議
教你放下恐懼、
18:35
reframe重構 things,
396
1103062
1178
重新組織事物、
18:36
stop seeing眼看 other people as your enemy敵人.
397
1104264
2083
別再把其他人視為你的敵人。
18:38
There's a lot of guidance指導 in ancient
wisdom智慧 for this kind of empathy同情.
398
1106371
3307
對於這種同理心,
古人智慧中有許多教導。
克:我有最後一個問題。
18:41
CACA: Here's這裡的 my last question:
399
1109702
1377
以個人層面來說,
人們能做什麼來協助痊癒?
18:43
Personally親自, what can
people do to help heal癒合?
400
1111103
4335
強:是的,很難去直接
決定要克服你最深的偏見。
18:47
JHJH: Yeah, it's very hard to just decide決定
to overcome克服 your deepest最深 prejudices偏見.
401
1115462
4083
18:51
And there's research研究 showing展示
402
1119569
1461
有研究顯示
18:53
that political政治 prejudices偏見 are deeper更深
and stronger than race種族 prejudices偏見
403
1121054
4349
目前在我們國家中,
政治偏見比種族偏見
18:57
in the country國家 now.
404
1125427
1260
更深、更強。
18:59
So I think you have to make an effort功夫 --
that's the main主要 thing.
405
1127395
3432
所以我認為,你得付出努力…
這是最主要的。
19:02
Make an effort功夫 to actually其實 meet遇到 somebody.
406
1130851
2004
努力去真正認識別人。
19:04
Everybody每個人 has a cousin表姐, a brother-in-law長者的意思是鐵則,
407
1132879
2210
每個人都會有個表兄弟、連襟、
19:07
somebody who's誰是 on the other side.
408
1135113
1869
有某個人是在另一方的。
19:09
So, after this election選舉 --
409
1137006
1816
所以,在這個選舉之後…
19:11
wait a week or two,
410
1139252
1351
等一週或兩週,
19:12
because it's probably大概 going to feel
awful可怕 for one of you --
411
1140627
2836
因為你們當中有一方
可能會感覺糟透了…
等幾週之後,
向對方伸出手,說你想談談。
19:15
but wait a couple一對 weeks, and then
reach達到 out and say you want to talk.
412
1143487
4152
19:19
And before you do it,
413
1147663
1424
在你這麼做之前,
19:21
read Dale戴爾 Carnegie卡內基, "How to Win贏得
Friends and Influence影響 People" --
414
1149111
3145
先讀讀卡內基的
《如何贏取友誼與影響他人》…
(笑聲)
19:24
(Laughter笑聲)
415
1152280
1039
我是非常認真的。
19:25
I'm totally完全 serious嚴重.
416
1153343
1167
你會學到技巧…
如果你用認可來開場,
19:26
You'll你會 learn學習 techniques技術
if you start開始 by acknowledging承認,
417
1154534
2590
19:29
if you start開始 by saying,
418
1157148
1161
如果你開場時說:
19:30
"You know, we don't agree同意 on a lot,
419
1158333
1670
「你知道,我們很多意見相左,
鮑伯叔叔,但你有一點
是我真的很敬佩的。」
19:32
but one thing I really respect尊重
about you, Uncle叔叔 Bob短發,"
420
1160027
2538
或「…你們保守派有一點
是我真的…」
19:34
or "... about you conservatives保守派, is ... "
421
1162589
2059
你就會發現某些事。
19:36
And you can find something.
422
1164672
1334
如果你用欣賞來開場,
它就像魔法一樣。
19:38
If you start開始 with some
appreciation升值, it's like magic魔法.
423
1166030
2763
19:40
This is one of the main主要
things I've learned學到了
424
1168817
2114
這是我主要學到的東西之一,
我把它帶到我的人類關係當中。
19:42
that I take into my human人的 relationships關係.
425
1170955
1913
我仍然會犯很多愚蠢的錯誤,
19:44
I still make lots of stupid mistakes錯誤,
426
1172892
1920
但現在我非常擅長道歉、
19:46
but I'm incredibly令人難以置信 good
at apologizing道歉 now,
427
1174836
2016
19:48
and at acknowledging承認 what
somebody was right about.
428
1176876
2417
擅長認可別人對的部份。
如果你那樣做,
19:51
And if you do that,
429
1179317
1154
對話進行就會非常順利,
其實還挺好玩的。
19:52
then the conversation會話 goes really well,
and it's actually其實 really fun開玩笑.
430
1180495
3494
克:能與您談話真的是非常棒。
19:56
CACA: Jon喬恩, it's absolutely絕對 fascinating迷人
speaking請講 with you.
431
1184717
2645
真的感覺像是…我們的立基之地
19:59
It's really does feel like
the ground地面 that we're on
432
1187386
3758
20:03
is a ground地面 populated人口稠密 by deep questions問題
of morality道德 and human人的 nature性質.
433
1191168
4867
上面有關於道德及
人類天性的深刻問題。
20:08
Your wisdom智慧 couldn't不能 be more relevant相應.
434
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2424
您提供的智慧非常有意義。
20:10
Thank you so much for sharing分享
this time with us.
435
1198814
2295
非常謝謝您這次能與我們分享。
20:13
JHJH: Thanks謝謝, Chris克裡斯.
436
1201133
1152
強:謝謝,克里斯。
20:14
JHJH: Thanks謝謝, everyone大家.
437
1202309
1161
強:謝謝各位。
20:15
(Applause掌聲)
438
1203494
2000
(掌聲)
Translated by Lilian Chiu
Reviewed by Melody Tang

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ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Jonathan Haidt - Social psychologist
Jonathan Haidt studies how -- and why -- we evolved to be moral and political creatures.

Why you should listen

By understanding more about our moral psychology and its biases, Jonathan Haidt says we can design better institutions (including companies, universities and democracy itself), and we can learn to be more civil and open-minded toward those who are not on our team.

Haidt is a social psychologist whose research on morality across cultures led to his 2008 TED Talk on the psychological roots of the American culture war, and his 2013 TED Talk on how "common threats can make common ground." In both of those talks he asks, "Can't we all disagree more constructively?" Haidt's 2012 TED Talk explored the intersection of his work on morality with his work on happiness to talk about "hive psychology" -- the ability that humans have to lose themselves in groups pursuing larger projects, almost like bees in a hive. This hivish ability is crucial, he argues, for understanding the origins of morality, politics, and religion. These are ideas that Haidt develops at greater length in his book, The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.

Haidt joined New York University Stern School of Business in July 2011. He is the Thomas Cooley Professor of Ethical Leadership, based in the Business and Society Program. Before coming to Stern, Professor Haidt taught for 16 years at the University of Virginia in the department of psychology.

Haidt's writings appear frequently in the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. He was named one of the top global thinkers by Foreign Policy magazine and by Prospect magazine. Haidt received a B.A. in Philosophy from Yale University, and an M.A. and Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania.

More profile about the speaker
Jonathan Haidt | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com