ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Deborah Lipstadt - Historian
Deborah Lipstadt's research focuses on the development of Holocaust denial and how to fight for the truth in an era marked by "alternative facts."

Why you should listen

Dr. Deborah E. Lipstadt, Dorot professor of Holocaust Studies at Emory University in Atlanta, was sued for libel in 1996 by David Irving for having called him a Holocaust denier. After a ten-week trial in London in 2000, in an overwhelming victory for Lipstadt, the judge found Irving to be a "neo-Nazi polemicist" who "perverts" history and engages in "racist" and "anti-Semitic" discourse. The Daily Telegraph (London) described the trial as having "done for the new century what the Nuremberg tribunals or the Eichmann trial did for earlier generations." The Times (London) described it as "history has had its day in court and scored a crushing victory." According to the New York Times, the trial "put an end to the pretense that Mr. Irving is anything but a self-promoting apologist for Hitler."

The movie Denial, starring Rachel Weisz and Tom Wilkenson with a screenplay by David Hare, tells the story of this legal battle.  It is based on Lipstadt's book, History on Trial: My Day in Court with a Holocaust Denier (Harper Collins, 2006), and recently reissued as Denial (Harper Collins, 2016). The film was nominated for a BAFTA as one of the best British films of the year.

Lipstadt has written most recently Holocaust: An American Understanding (Rutgers, 2016), which explores how America has understood and interpreted the Holocaust since 1945.

Her previous book, The Eichmann Trial, (Schocken/Nextbook, 2011) published in commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the Eichmann trial, was called by Publisher's Weekly, "a penetrating and authoritative dissection of a landmark case and its after effects." The New York Times Book Review described Lipstadt as having "done a great service by … recovering the event as a gripping legal drama, as well as a hinge moment in Israel's history and in the world's delayed awakening to the magnitude of the Holocaust."

She has also published Beyond Belief: The American Press And The Coming Of The Holocaust, 1933-1945 (Free Press, 1986), which surveys what the American press wrote about the persecution of the Jews in the years 1933-1945.  She is currently writing a book, The Antisemitic Delusion: Letters to a Concerned Student which will be published in 2018.

At Emory, Lipstadt directs the website known as HDOT, Holocaust Denial on Trial, which contains a complete archive of the proceedings of Irving v. Penguin UK and Deborah Lipstadt. It also provides answers to frequent claims made by deniers. Lipstadt has won the Emery Williams Teaching Award, and she was selected for the award by alumni as the teacher who had most influenced them.

Lipstadt was a historical consultant to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, helping design the section of the Museum dedicated to the American Response to the Holocaust. She has held a Presidential appointment to the United States Holocaust Memorial Council (from Presidents Clinton and Obama) and was asked by President George W. Bush to represent the White House at the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

Lipstadt has a BA from the City College of New York and an MA and PhD from Brandeis University.

More profile about the speaker
Deborah Lipstadt | Speaker | TED.com
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Deborah Lipstadt: Behind the lies of Holocaust denial

Deborah Lipstadt: Por trás da negação do holocausto

Filmed:
1,378,476 views

"Existem fatos, opiniões e mentiras", diz a historiadora Deborah Lipstadt, nos contando sobre a notável história de sua pesquisa sobre os negadores do holocausto e sua deliberada distorção da história. Lipstadt encoraja todos nós a prosseguirmos na ofensiva contra aqueles que atacam a verdade e os fatos. "A verdade não é relativa", diz ela.
- Historian
Deborah Lipstadt's research focuses on the development of Holocaust denial and how to fight for the truth in an era marked by "alternative facts." Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:13
I come to you today to speak of liars,
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Venho até vocês hoje
para falar sobre mentirosos,
ações judiciais,
00:17
lawsuits
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00:18
and laughter.
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e risos.
00:20
The first time I heard
about Holocaust denial,
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A primeira vez que ouvi
sobre a negação do holocausto,
00:24
I laughed.
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eu ri.
"Negação" do holocausto?
00:25
Holocaust denial?
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00:28
The Holocaust which has
the dubious distinction
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O holocausto que tem
a questionável distinção
00:31
of being the best-documented
genocide in the world?
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de ser o genocídio mais
bem-documentado do mundo?
Quem poderia acreditar que não aconteceu?
00:37
Who could believe it didn't happen?
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00:40
Think about it.
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Pensem nisso.
00:42
For deniers to be right,
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Para que negadores estejam certos
quem teria que estar errado?
00:44
who would have to be wrong?
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Bem, primeiramente, as vítimas,
00:47
Well, first of all, the victims --
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00:49
the survivors who have told us
their harrowing stories.
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os sobreviventes que nos contaram
suas histórias angustiantes.
Quem mais teria que estar errado?
00:55
Who else would have to be wrong?
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Os espectadores.
00:58
The bystanders.
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As pessoas que viveram
nas inúmeras cidades e vilarejos
01:00
The people who lived in the myriads
of towns and villages and cities
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01:04
on the Eastern front,
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do fronte oriental,
01:06
who watched their neighbors
be rounded up --
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que assistiram a seus vizinhos
sendo arrebanhados:
01:08
men, women, children, young, old --
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homens, mulheres,
crianças, jovens, idosos,
01:11
and be marched
to the outskirts of the town
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e conduzidos para os arredores da cidade
01:14
to be shot and left dead in ditches.
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para serem fuzilados e abandonados
para morrer em valas.
01:17
Or the Poles,
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Ou os poloneses,
01:19
who lived in towns and villages
around the death camps,
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que viviam em cidades e vilarejos
nos arredores dos campos de concentração,
01:24
who watched day after day
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e que observavam dia após dia
01:26
as the trains went in filled with people
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enquanto os trens entravam
cheio de pessoas e saíam vazios.
01:29
and came out empty.
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Mas, acima de tudo,
quem teria que estar errado?
01:31
But above all, who would have to be wrong?
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01:36
The perpetrators.
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Os criminosos.
01:38
The people who say, "We did it.
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As pessoas que dizem: "Nós fizemos isso.
01:41
I did it."
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Eu fiz isso".
01:43
Now, maybe they add a caveat.
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Talvez eles incluam uma advertência,
01:45
They say, "I didn't have a choice;
I was forced to do it."
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eles digam: "Eu não tive escolha.
Fui obrigado a fazer aquilo".
01:50
But nonetheless, they say, "I did it."
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No entanto, eles dizem: "Eu fiz".
01:53
Think about it.
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Pensem nisso.
01:55
In not one war crimes trial
since the end of World War II
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Em nenhum julgamento de crimes de guerra,
desde o fim da Segunda Guerra Mundial,
02:01
has a perpetrator of any nationality
ever said, "It didn't happen."
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o criminoso de qualquer nacionalidade
jamais disse: "Não aconteceu".
02:09
Again, they may have said, "I was forced,"
but never that it didn't happen.
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De novo, podem ter dito: "Fui forçado",
mas não que nunca aconteceu.
Tendo considerado muito isso,
02:13
Having thought that through,
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decidi que a negação
não entraria na minha pauta;
02:15
I decided denial was not
going to be on my agenda;
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tinha coisas mais sérias pra me preocupar,
pra escrever e pesquisar a respeito,
02:19
I had bigger things to worry about,
to write about, to research,
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02:22
and I moved on.
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e segui adiante.
02:24
Fast-forward a little over a decade,
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Avançando pouco mais de uma década,
02:27
and two senior scholars --
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dois estudiosos seniores,
02:29
two of the most prominent historians
of the Holocaust --
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dois dos historiadores
mais proeminentes do holocausto,
02:32
approached me and said,
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me procuraram e disseram:
"Deborah, vamos tomar um café.
02:34
"Deborah, let's have coffee.
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02:35
We have a research idea
that we think is perfect for you."
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Temos uma ideia de pesquisa
que achamos ser perfeita para você".
02:39
Intrigued and flattered
that they came to me with an idea
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Intrigada e lisonjeada com o fato
de virem até mim com uma ideia
02:43
and thought me worthy of it,
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e de me acharem digna dela,
eu perguntei: "O que é?"
02:44
I asked, "What is it?"
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E disseram: "Negação do holocausto".
02:47
And they said, "Holocaust denial."
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02:51
And for the second time, I laughed.
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E pela segunda vez, eu ri.
02:54
Holocaust denial?
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Negação do holocausto?
Seriam eles membros
da sociedade Flat Earth?
02:56
The Flat Earth folks?
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02:58
The Elvis-is-alive people?
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Ou desses que acreditam
que Elvis está vivo?
03:00
I should study them?
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Eu deveria estudá-los?
03:03
And these two guys said,
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E os dois disseram:
03:04
"Yeah, we're intrigued.
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"Sim, estamos intrigados.
03:07
What are they about?
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Qual é a deles?
03:08
What's their objective?
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Qual é o objetivo deles?
03:10
How do they manage to get people
to believe what they say?"
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Como conseguem levar as pessoas
a acreditar no que eles dizem?"
03:14
So thinking, if they thought
it was worthwhile,
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Então pensei
que, se eles achavam que valia a pena,
eu faria uma digressão momentânea,
03:18
I would take a momentary diversion --
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03:21
maybe a year, maybe two,
three, maybe even four --
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talvez um ano, ou dois,
três, talvez até quatro:
03:24
in academic terms, that's momentary.
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em termos acadêmicos, isso é momentâneo.
03:26
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
03:28
We work very slowly.
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Trabalhamos muito devagar.
03:30
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
03:32
And I would look at them.
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E eu os investigaria.
03:33
So I did.
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Então fiz isso.
03:35
I did my research, and I came up
with a number of things,
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Fiz minha pesquisa,
e descobri muitas coisas,
03:37
two of which I'd like to share
with you today.
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duas das quais eu gostaria
de compartilhar com vocês.
03:40
One:
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Primeira:
03:41
deniers are wolves in sheep's clothing.
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negadores são lobos em pele de cordeiro.
03:47
They are the same: Nazis, neo-Nazis --
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Eles são os mesmos: nazistas, neonazistas;
03:50
you can decide whether you want
to put a "neo" there or not.
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vocês decidem se querem acrescentar
a palavra "neo" lá ou não.
03:54
But when I looked at them,
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Mas quando olhei para eles,
03:57
I didn't see any SS-like uniforms,
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não vi um uniforme da SS,
símbolos da suástica na parede,
04:01
swastika-like symbols on the wall,
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saudações Sieg Heil,
04:05
Sieg Heil salutes --
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04:07
none of that.
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nada disso.
04:08
What I found instead
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Em vez disso encontrei
04:11
were people parading
as respectable academics.
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pessoas desfilando
como acadêmicos respeitáveis.
04:16
What did they have?
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O que eles tinham?
04:18
They had an institute.
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Tinham um instituto.
04:19
An "Institute for Historical Review."
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O "Institute for Historical Review".
04:24
They had a journal -- a slick journal --
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Eles tinham um jornal bacana,
04:26
a "Journal of Historical Review."
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o "Journal of Historical Review",
04:30
One filled with papers --
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cheio de inúmeras notas de rodapé.
04:33
footnote-laden papers.
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04:35
And they had a new name.
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E tinham um novo nome.
04:38
Not neo-Nazis,
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Não neonazistas,
04:40
not anti-Semites --
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nem antissemitas:
04:43
revisionists.
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revisionistas.
04:44
They said, "We are revisionists.
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Eles diziam: "Nós somos revisionistas.
04:47
We are out to do one thing:
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Nossa missão é fazer uma coisa:
04:49
to revise mistakes in history."
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rever erros na história".
04:54
But all you had to do was go
one inch below the surface,
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Mas tudo o que precisávamos fazer era
descer um centímetro abaixo da superfície,
04:59
and what did you find there?
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e o que encontrávamos lá?
05:01
The same adulation of Hitler,
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A mesma adulação a Hitler,
05:04
praise of the Third Reich,
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louvor ao Terceiro Reich,
05:06
anti-Semitism, racism, prejudice.
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antissemitismo, racismo, preconceito.
05:09
This is what intrigued me.
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Foi isso que me intrigou.
Era antissemitismo, racismo, preconceito,
05:12
It was anti-Semitism, racism, prejudice,
parading as rational discourse.
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desfilando como discurso racional.
05:20
The other thing I found --
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Outra coisa que descobri,
05:22
many of us have been taught to think
there are facts and there are opinions --
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muitos de nós fomos ensinados
a pensar que há fatos e há opiniões.
Depois de estudar negadores,
eu penso diferente.
05:26
after studying deniers,
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05:27
I think differently.
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05:29
There are facts,
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Há fatos,
05:31
there are opinions,
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há opiniões,
05:32
and there are lies.
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e há mentiras.
05:35
And what deniers want to do
is take their lies,
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E os negadores querem
pegar as mentiras deles,
05:40
dress them up as opinions --
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mascará-las como opiniões,
05:42
maybe edgy opinions,
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talvez opiniões aguçadas,
05:44
maybe sort of out-of-the-box opinions --
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talvez opiniões tipo "fora da caixa",
05:46
but then if they're opinions,
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mas então, se são opiniões deles,
elas deveriam fazer parte da conversa.
05:48
they should be part of the conversation.
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05:50
And then they encroach on the facts.
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E então eles transgridem os fatos.
05:55
I published my work --
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Eu publiquei meu trabalho,
o livro foi publicado:
05:56
the book was published,
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"Negando o Holocausto: O Crescente
Ataque à Verdade e à Memória"
05:58
"Denying the Holocaust: The Growing
Assault on Truth and Memory,"
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06:01
it came out in many different countries,
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foi lançado em muitos países diferentes,
inclusive aqui na Penguin UK,
06:03
including here in Penguin UK,
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06:05
and I was done with those folks
and ready to move on.
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e eu tinha lidado com essas pessoas
e estava pronta para seguir adiante.
06:10
Then came the letter from Penguin UK.
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Então veio a carta da Penguin UK.
06:14
And for the third time, I laughed ...
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E pela terceira vez, eu ri,
06:19
mistakenly.
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equivocadamente.
06:20
I opened the letter,
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Abri a carta,
06:22
and it informed me that David Irving
was bringing a libel suit against me
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e ela informava que David Irving
estava me processando por calúnia
06:28
in the United Kingdom
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no Reino Unido
06:30
for calling him a Holocaust denier.
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por chamá-lo de negador do holocausto.
06:33
David Irving suing me?
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David Irving estava me processando?
Quem era David Irving?
06:35
Who was David Irving?
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Ele era um escritor de obras históricas,
06:37
David Irving was a writer
of historical works,
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a maioria delas sobre
a Segunda Guerra Mundial,
06:39
most of them about World War II,
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06:41
and virtually all of those works
took the position
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e praticamente todos
esses trabalhos tomaram a posição
de que os nazistas
não eram tão ruins assim,
06:45
that the Nazis were really not so bad,
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06:48
and the allies were really not so good.
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e os aliados não eram tão bons assim.
E os judeus, o que quer que tenha
acontecido com eles, meio que mereceram.
06:51
And the Jews, whatever happened to them,
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06:53
they sort of deserved it.
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06:56
He knew the documents,
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Ele conhecia os documentos e os fatos,
06:57
he knew the facts,
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06:59
but he somehow twisted them
to get this opinion.
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mas ele, de alguma forma,
os deturpou para obter essa opinião.
Ele nem sempre foi
um negador do holocausto,
07:03
He hadn't always been a Holocaust denier,
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07:05
but in the late '80s,
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mas no final dos anos 80,
07:07
he embraced it with great vigor.
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ele adotou isso com grande vigor.
07:11
The reason I laughed also
was this was a man
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Eu também ri porque este era um homem
07:15
who not only was a Holocaust denier,
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que não só era negador do holocausto,
mas se mostrava muito orgulhoso disso.
07:17
but seemed quite proud of it.
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07:19
Here was a man -- and I quote --
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Aqui estava um homem que disse:
07:20
who said, "I'm going to sink
the battleship Auschwitz."
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"Vou afundar o navio de guerra Auschwitz".
07:25
Here was a man
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Aqui estava um homem
07:26
who pointed to the number tattooed
on a survivor's arm and said,
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que apontou para o número tatuado
no braço de um sobrevivente e disse:
07:31
"How much money have you made
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"Quanto você ganhou para tatuar
esse número no seu braço?"
07:33
from having that number
tattooed on your arm?"
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07:37
Here was a man who said,
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Aqui estava um homem que disse:
07:39
"More people died in Senator Kennedy's car
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"Mais pessoas morreram
no carro do senador Kennedy,
07:42
at Chappaquiddick
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em Chappaquiddick,
07:43
than died in gas chambers at Auschwitz."
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do que nas câmaras de gás em Auschwitz".
07:47
That's an American reference,
but you can look it up.
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Essa é uma referência americana,
mas vocês podem pesquisá-la.
07:51
This was not a man who seemed
at all ashamed or reticent
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Este não era um homem que parecia
envergonhado ou reticente
07:54
about being a Holocaust denier.
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por ser um negador do holocausto.
07:57
Now, lots of my academic
colleagues counseled me --
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Muitos dos meus colegas me aconselharam:
08:00
"Eh, Deborah, just ignore it."
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"Ei, Deborah, simplesmente ignore isto".
08:02
When I explained you can't just
ignore a libel suit,
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Quando expliquei que não se pode
simplesmente ignorar uma ação de calúnia,
08:06
they said, "Who's going to
believe him anyway?"
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eles disseram: "E quem vai
mesmo acreditar nele?"
08:09
But here was the problem:
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Mas esta era a questão:
a lei britânica colocou o ônus em mim
08:11
British law put the onus,
put the burden of proof on me
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08:17
to prove the truth of what I said,
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para provar a verdade do que eu disse,
08:19
in contrast to as it would have
been in the United States
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em contraste de como teria
sido nos Estados Unidos
08:22
and in many other countries:
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e em muitos outros países:
que ele provasse a falsidade.
08:24
on him to prove the falsehood.
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08:27
What did that mean?
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O que isso significava?
08:29
That meant if I didn't fight,
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Significava que se eu não lutasse,
08:32
he would win by default.
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ele ganharia por omissão.
08:35
And if he won by default,
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E se ele ganhasse por omissão,
ele então poderia legitimamente dizer:
08:37
he could then legitimately say,
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2641
"Minha versão, de David Irving,
do holocausto é a versão legítima.
08:40
"My David Irving version of the Holocaust
is a legitimate version.
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Deborah Lipstadt foi acusada
de ter me caluniado
08:45
Deborah Lipstadt was found
to have libeled me
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quando me acusou de ser
negador do holocausto.
08:47
when she called me a Holocaust denier.
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515803
1947
08:49
Ipso facto, I, David Irving,
am not a Holocaust denier."
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4428
Dito isto, eu, David Irving,
não sou um negador do holocausto".
08:54
And what is that version?
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522226
1712
E qual é essa versão?
08:56
There was no plan to murder the Jews,
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2996
Não havia nenhum plano
para assassinar os judeus,
08:59
there were no gas chambers,
184
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2052
não havia câmaras de gás,
09:01
there were no mass shootings,
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1856
não houve fuzilamento em massa,
09:03
Hitler had nothing to do
with any suffering that went on,
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3171
Hitler não teve nada a ver
com qualquer sofrimento que aconteceu,
09:06
and the Jews have made this all up
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3805
e os judeus inventaram tudo isso
09:10
to get money from Germany
188
538431
2398
para conseguir dinheiro da Alemanha
e para obter um Estado,
09:12
and to get a state,
189
540853
1707
09:14
and they've done it with the aid
and abettance of the allies --
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542584
3377
e eles fizeram isso com o auxílio
e favorecimento dos aliados.
09:17
they've planted the documents
and planted the evidence.
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3465
Eles plantaram os documentos e as provas.
09:22
I couldn't let that stand
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2380
Eu não podia deixar isso ficar assim
09:24
and ever face a survivor
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552864
2200
e jamais poderia encarar
um sobrevivente
09:27
or a child of survivors.
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1975
ou um filho deles.
09:29
I couldn't let that stand
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557822
2152
Não podia deixar isso ficar assim
09:31
and consider myself
a responsible historian.
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4251
e me considerar
uma historiadora responsável.
09:37
So we fought.
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565187
1745
Então, nós lutamos.
E, para quem não assistiu
ao filme "Negação",
09:38
And for those of you
who haven't seen "Denial,"
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566956
2282
alerta de "spoiler": nós ganhamos.
09:41
spoiler alert:
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569262
1159
09:42
we won.
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570445
1218
09:43
(Laughter)
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571687
1295
(Risos)
09:45
(Applause)
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573006
2567
(Aplausos)
09:51
The judge found David Irving
203
579988
4241
O juiz considerou David Irving
09:56
to be a liar,
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584253
3331
um mentiroso,
09:59
a racist,
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1163
um racista e antissemita.
10:00
an anti-Semite.
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588795
1254
10:02
His view of history was tendentious,
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590073
2360
A visão histórica dele era tendenciosa,
10:04
he lied, he distorted --
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592457
1926
ele mentiu, distorceu fatos
10:06
and most importantly,
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594407
2643
e o mais importante,
10:09
he did it deliberately.
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597074
2113
ele fez isso deliberadamente.
10:11
We showed a pattern,
in over 25 different major instances.
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599211
4139
Mostramos um padrão,
em mais de 25 instâncias principais.
10:15
Not small things -- many of us
in this audience write books,
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603374
3110
Não coisas pequenas;
muitos nesta plateia escrevem
ou estão escrevendo livros.
10:18
are writing books;
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606508
1185
Sempre cometemos erros,
10:19
we always make mistakes, that's why
we're glad to have second editions:
214
607717
3466
por isso ficamos felizes em ter
uma segunda edição pra corrigir os erros.
10:23
correct the mistakes.
215
611207
1186
10:24
(Laughter)
216
612417
1150
(Risos)
10:26
But these always moved
in the same direction:
217
614634
3136
Mas estes sempre se moveram
na mesma direção:
10:30
blame the Jews,
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618618
2211
culpe os judeus,
10:32
exonerate the Nazis.
219
620853
2175
exonere os nazistas.
10:35
But how did we win?
220
623700
1584
Mas como nós ganhamos?
10:38
What we did is follow his footnotes
back to his sources.
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626196
5380
Seguimos as notas de rodapé dele
de volta às suas origens.
10:44
And what did we find?
222
632190
1783
E o que encontramos?
10:45
Not in most cases,
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633997
1479
Não na maioria dos casos,
10:47
and not in the preponderance of cases,
224
635500
1968
e não na preponderância dos casos,
10:49
but in every single instance where
he made some reference to the Holocaust,
225
637492
4311
mas em cada instância na qual ele fez
alguma referência ao holocausto,
10:53
that his supposed evidence was distorted,
226
641827
4242
que a suposta evidência dele
fora distorcida, meia verdade,
10:58
half-truth,
227
646093
1420
mudança de datas e de sequências,
10:59
date-changed,
228
647537
1334
11:00
sequence-changed,
229
648895
2187
alguém foi colocado
numa reunião e não estava lá.
11:03
someone put at a meeting who wasn't there.
230
651106
2124
11:05
In other words,
he didn't have the evidence.
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653254
2761
Em outras palavras,
ele não tinha as evidências.
11:08
His evidence didn't prove it.
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656039
2109
As evidências dele não provaram isso.
11:10
We didn't prove what happened.
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658172
2659
Nós não provamos o que aconteceu.
11:13
We proved that what he said happened --
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661628
2499
Provamos que o que ele
disse que aconteceu
e por extensão, todos os negadores,
11:16
and by extension, all deniers,
because he either quotes them
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664151
2860
já que ele ou os menciona
ou eles obtêm seus argumentos com ele,
11:19
or they get their arguments from him --
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667035
2471
não é verdade.
11:21
is not true.
237
669530
1246
11:22
What they claim --
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670800
1189
O que eles alegam, eles não têm
as evidências para provar.
11:24
they don't have the evidence to prove it.
239
672013
2622
11:28
So why is my story
more than just the story
240
676609
4744
Então, por que a minha história
é mais do que apenas a história
11:33
of a quirky, long,
six-year, difficult lawsuit,
241
681377
3807
de uma ação judicial difícil
e peculiar de seis longos anos,
11:37
an American professor
being dragged into a courtroom
242
685208
4989
e uma professora americana
sendo arrastada para um tribunal
11:42
by a man that the court
declared in its judgment
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3044
por um homem que o tribunal
declarou em seu julgamento
11:45
was a neo-Nazi polemicist?
244
693289
2250
ser um polemista neonazista?
11:47
What message does it have?
245
695563
1783
Qual é a mensagem?
11:49
I think in the context
of the question of truth,
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2973
Acho que, no contexto
da questão da verdade,
11:52
it has a very significant message.
247
700797
2462
a mensagem é muito significativa.
11:55
Because today,
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1785
Porque hoje,
11:57
as we well know,
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705092
1666
como bem sabemos,
11:58
truth and facts are under assault.
250
706782
4116
verdades e fatos estão sob ataque.
12:03
Social media, for all
the gifts it has given us,
251
711702
3252
A mídia social, apesar de todos
os presentes que nos deu,
12:06
has also allowed the difference
between facts -- established facts --
252
714978
5581
também permitiu que a diferença
entre fatos estabelecidos
12:12
and lies
253
720583
1757
e mentiras
12:14
to be flattened.
254
722364
1398
fosse nivelada.
12:16
Third of all:
255
724990
1510
Em primeiro lugar:
12:18
extremism.
256
726524
1471
extremismo.
12:20
You may not see Ku Klux Klan robes,
257
728987
3577
Vocês podem não ver
os roupões da Ku Klux Klan,
12:24
you may not see burning crosses,
258
732588
2071
ou as cruzes se queimando,
12:26
you may not even hear outright
white supremacist language.
259
734683
4319
talvez nem mesmo ouçam
toda a linguagem da supremacia branca.
12:31
It may go by names: "alt-right,"
"National Front" -- pick your names.
260
739026
4906
Podemos chamá-la de "direita alternativa",
"Frente Nacional", escolham seus nomes.
12:35
But underneath, it's that same extremism
that I found in Holocaust denial
261
743956
5835
Mas por baixo, foi esse mesmo extremismo
que encontrei na negação do holocausto,
12:41
parading as rational discourse.
262
749815
3394
desfilando como discurso racional.
12:47
We live in an age
where truth is on the defensive.
263
755134
5217
Vivemos numa idade na qual
a verdade está na defensiva.
12:52
I'm reminded of a New Yorker cartoon.
264
760375
2484
Vem à minha mente um cartum de Nova York.
Um show de perguntas recentemente
apareceu em "The New Yorker"
12:54
A quiz show recently appeared
in "The New Yorker"
265
762883
2520
12:57
where the host of the quiz show
is saying to one of the contestants,
266
765427
3222
no qual o apresentador diz
a uma das concorrentes:
"Sim, senhora, a sua resposta está certa,
13:00
"Yes, ma'am, you had the right answer.
267
768673
2309
mas seu oponente gritou
mais alto do que você,
13:03
But your opponent yelled
more loudly than you did,
268
771006
2493
13:05
so he gets the point."
269
773523
1525
então ele ganha o ponto".
13:08
What can we do?
270
776228
1507
O que podemos fazer?
13:10
First of all,
271
778557
1377
Em primeiro lugar,
13:11
we cannot be beguiled
by rational appearances.
272
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5431
não podemos ser enganados
pelas aparências racionais.
13:17
We've got to look underneath,
273
785413
1769
Temos que procurar embaixo,
e lá vamos encontrar o extremismo.
13:19
and we will find there the extremism.
274
787206
2801
13:22
Second of all,
275
790991
1986
Em segundo lugar:
13:25
we must understand
that truth is not relative.
276
793001
6081
devemos entender
que a verdade não é relativa.
13:33
Number three,
277
801137
1464
Em terceiro lugar:
13:34
we must go on the offensive,
278
802625
3689
devemos ficar na ofensiva,
13:38
not the defensive.
279
806338
1773
não na defensiva.
13:40
When someone makes an outrageous claim,
280
808676
2607
Quando alguém faz
uma afirmação ultrajante,
13:43
even though they may hold
one of the highest offices in the land,
281
811307
3504
mesmo que possua um dos cargos
mais altos da nação, se não do mundo,
13:46
if not the world --
282
814835
2011
13:48
we must say to them,
283
816870
1510
devemos dizer a ele:
13:50
"Where's the proof?
284
818404
1966
"Onde está a prova?
13:52
Where's the evidence?"
285
820394
2137
Onde estão as evidências?"
13:54
We must hold their feet to the fire.
286
822555
2927
Devemos manter os pés "deles" no fogo.
13:57
We must not treat it as if their lies
are the same as the facts.
287
825506
4606
Não devemos tratar o assunto como
se as mentiras dele refletissem os fatos.
14:03
And as I said earlier,
truth is not relative.
288
831395
3540
E como eu disse anteriormente,
a verdade não é relativa.
14:06
Many of us have grown up
in the world of the academy
289
834959
2856
Muitos de nós crescemos
no mundo acadêmico
14:09
and enlightened liberal thought,
290
837839
1741
e do pensamento liberal esclarecido,
14:11
where we're taught
everything is open to debate.
291
839604
2961
no qual nos ensinam
que tudo está aberto ao debate.
14:15
But that's not the case.
292
843164
2014
Mas não é o caso.
14:17
There are certain things that are true.
293
845202
3442
Certas coisas são verdadeiras,
14:21
There are indisputable facts --
294
849192
3020
há fatos indiscutíveis,
14:24
objective truths.
295
852236
1690
verdades objetivas.
14:26
Galileo taught it to us centuries ago.
296
854519
4817
Galileu nos ensinou isso há séculos.
14:31
Even after being forced
to recant by the Vatican
297
859360
4667
Mesmo depois de ser forçado
pelo Vaticano a se retratar
14:36
that the Earth moved around the Sun,
298
864051
2573
de que a Terra se movia em torno do Sol,
14:38
he came out,
299
866648
1154
ele se pronunciou, e quais são
os registros do que ele disse?
14:39
and what is he reported to have said?
300
867826
2310
"Mas, mesmo assim, ela se move."
14:42
"And yet, it still moves."
301
870160
3822
14:47
The Earth is not flat.
302
875342
2840
A Terra não é plana.
14:50
The climate is changing.
303
878206
2290
O clima está mudando.
14:53
Elvis is not alive.
304
881387
2268
Elvis não está vivo.
(Risos)
14:55
(Laughter)
305
883679
1535
14:57
(Applause)
306
885238
2316
(Aplausos)
14:59
And most importantly,
307
887578
2301
E o mais importante:
15:01
truth and fact are under assault.
308
889903
4649
verdade e fato estão sob ataque.
15:07
The job ahead of us,
309
895289
1610
O trabalho à nossa frente, a tarefa
e o desafio à nossa frente
15:08
the task ahead of us,
310
896923
1203
15:10
the challenge ahead of us
311
898150
1594
15:11
is great.
312
899768
1234
são enormes.
15:13
The time to fight is short.
313
901747
2637
O tempo para lutar é curto.
15:17
We must act now.
314
905241
2843
Temos que agir agora.
15:20
Later will be too late.
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3245
Mais tarde será tarde demais.
15:24
Thank you very much.
316
912198
1262
Muito obrigada.
15:25
(Applause)
317
913484
4046
(Aplausos)
Translated by Maricene Crus
Reviewed by Sarah Tambur

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Deborah Lipstadt - Historian
Deborah Lipstadt's research focuses on the development of Holocaust denial and how to fight for the truth in an era marked by "alternative facts."

Why you should listen

Dr. Deborah E. Lipstadt, Dorot professor of Holocaust Studies at Emory University in Atlanta, was sued for libel in 1996 by David Irving for having called him a Holocaust denier. After a ten-week trial in London in 2000, in an overwhelming victory for Lipstadt, the judge found Irving to be a "neo-Nazi polemicist" who "perverts" history and engages in "racist" and "anti-Semitic" discourse. The Daily Telegraph (London) described the trial as having "done for the new century what the Nuremberg tribunals or the Eichmann trial did for earlier generations." The Times (London) described it as "history has had its day in court and scored a crushing victory." According to the New York Times, the trial "put an end to the pretense that Mr. Irving is anything but a self-promoting apologist for Hitler."

The movie Denial, starring Rachel Weisz and Tom Wilkenson with a screenplay by David Hare, tells the story of this legal battle.  It is based on Lipstadt's book, History on Trial: My Day in Court with a Holocaust Denier (Harper Collins, 2006), and recently reissued as Denial (Harper Collins, 2016). The film was nominated for a BAFTA as one of the best British films of the year.

Lipstadt has written most recently Holocaust: An American Understanding (Rutgers, 2016), which explores how America has understood and interpreted the Holocaust since 1945.

Her previous book, The Eichmann Trial, (Schocken/Nextbook, 2011) published in commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the Eichmann trial, was called by Publisher's Weekly, "a penetrating and authoritative dissection of a landmark case and its after effects." The New York Times Book Review described Lipstadt as having "done a great service by … recovering the event as a gripping legal drama, as well as a hinge moment in Israel's history and in the world's delayed awakening to the magnitude of the Holocaust."

She has also published Beyond Belief: The American Press And The Coming Of The Holocaust, 1933-1945 (Free Press, 1986), which surveys what the American press wrote about the persecution of the Jews in the years 1933-1945.  She is currently writing a book, The Antisemitic Delusion: Letters to a Concerned Student which will be published in 2018.

At Emory, Lipstadt directs the website known as HDOT, Holocaust Denial on Trial, which contains a complete archive of the proceedings of Irving v. Penguin UK and Deborah Lipstadt. It also provides answers to frequent claims made by deniers. Lipstadt has won the Emery Williams Teaching Award, and she was selected for the award by alumni as the teacher who had most influenced them.

Lipstadt was a historical consultant to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, helping design the section of the Museum dedicated to the American Response to the Holocaust. She has held a Presidential appointment to the United States Holocaust Memorial Council (from Presidents Clinton and Obama) and was asked by President George W. Bush to represent the White House at the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

Lipstadt has a BA from the City College of New York and an MA and PhD from Brandeis University.

More profile about the speaker
Deborah Lipstadt | Speaker | TED.com