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TEDGlobal 2011

Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar

Pamela Meyer: Kako prepoznati lažljivca

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20,711,919 views

Svakog dana nas slažu između 10 i 200 puta, a znakovi koji nam otkrivaju kada nas lažu mogu biti suptilni i suprotni intuiciji. Pamela Mayer, autorica knjige Prepoznavanje laži (Liespotting), predstavlja načine i ključne točke kojima se služe ljudi obučeni da prepoznaju prevaru, tvrdeći da je iskrenost vrlina koju vrijedi očuvati.

- Lie detector
Pamela Meyer thinks we’re facing a pandemic of deception, but she’s arming people with tools that can help take back the truth. Full bio

Okay, now I don't want to alarm anybody in this room,
Gledajte, ne bih htjela
nikoga ovdje uznemiriti,
00:15
but it's just come to my attention
ali sam upravo primjetila
00:20
that the person to your right is a liar.
da je osoba desno od vas lažljivac.
00:22
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
00:24
Also, the person to your left is a liar.
I osoba lijevo od vas je lažljivac.
00:26
Also the person sitting in your very seats is a liar.
Kao i osoba koja sjedi na mjestu svakoga od vas.
00:29
We're all liars.
Svi smo mi lažljivci.
00:32
What I'm going to do today
I evo šta ću danas učiniti:
00:34
is I'm going to show you what the research says about why we're all liars,
predstaviti ću vam što istraživanja kažu o tome zašto smo svi mi lažljivci.
00:36
how you can become a liespotter
kako možete naučiti prepoznavati lažljivce.
00:39
and why you might want to go the extra mile
i zašto biste mogli željeti da pođete i korak dalje
00:41
and go from liespotting to truth seeking,
te da sa prepoznavanja lažljivaca prijeđete na traganje za istinom,
00:44
and ultimately to trust building.
i konačno do izgradnje povjerenja.
00:47
Now speaking of trust,
Kad smo već pomenuli povjerenje,
00:49
ever since I wrote this book, "Liespotting,"
otkad sam napisala ovu knjigu, "Prepoznavanje lažova"
00:52
no one wants to meet me in person anymore, no, no, no, no, no.
niko više ne želi sa mnom da se sretne uživo, ne, ne, ne.
00:55
They say, "It's okay, we'll email you."
Svi kažu: "Važi, poslaćemo vam e-mail".
00:58
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
01:01
I can't even get a coffee date at Starbucks.
Niko neće sa mnom ni na kafu u Starbucks.
01:03
My husband's like, "Honey, deception?
Muž mi kaže: "Mila, laganje?
01:07
Maybe you could have focused on cooking. How about French cooking?"
Možda da si se bavila kuvanjem? Šta kažeš na francusku kuhinju?"
01:09
So before I get started, what I'm going to do
Dakle, prije nego što počnem, evo šta ću učiniti
01:12
is I'm going to clarify my goal for you,
objasniću vam šta mi je cilj,
01:14
which is not to teach a game of Gotcha.
a cilj mi nije da vas naučim da igrate igru Gotcha! (Moj si!).
01:17
Liespotters aren't those nitpicky kids,
Ljudi koji prepoznaju lažove nisu klinci cjepidlake,
01:19
those kids in the back of the room that are shouting, "Gotcha! Gotcha!
oni koji sjede na suprotnoj strani sobe i vrište "Moj si! Moj si!"
01:21
Your eyebrow twitched. You flared your nostril.
Podigao si obrvu. Raširio si nozdrvu.
01:24
I watch that TV show 'Lie To Me.' I know you're lying."
Gledam onu televizijsku emisiju "Laži me". Znam da lažeš".
01:27
No, liespotters are armed
Ne, ljudi koji prepoznaju lažove raspolažu
01:30
with scientific knowledge of how to spot deception.
naučnim saznanjima o tome kako da prepoznaju laganje.
01:32
They use it to get to the truth,
Koriste ga da bi došli do istine,
01:35
and they do what mature leaders do everyday;
i učine ono što zreli lideri svakodnevno čine;
01:37
they have difficult conversations with difficult people,
vode teške razgovore sa teškim ljudima,
01:39
sometimes during very difficult times.
ponekad u veoma teška vremena.
01:42
And they start up that path
A na taj put kreću
01:44
by accepting a core proposition,
nakon što prihvate temeljnu pretpostavku
01:46
and that proposition is the following:
a ta pretpostavka je sljedeća:
01:48
Lying is a cooperative act.
Laganje je čin saradnje.
01:50
Think about it, a lie has no power whatsoever by its mere utterance.
Razmislite o tome, laž nema nikakvu moć ako se samo izgovori.
01:53
Its power emerges
Njena moć se počne da se pomalja
01:57
when someone else agrees to believe the lie.
kada neko drugi pristane da u tu laž povjeruje.
01:59
So I know it may sound like tough love,
Znam da bih mogla da vam zvučim kao strog roditelj,
02:01
but look, if at some point you got lied to,
ali vidite, ako vas neko slaže,
02:03
it's because you agreed to get lied to.
to je zato što ste pristali na to da vas lažu.
02:07
Truth number one about lying: Lying's a cooperative act.
Prva važna istina o laganju: laganje je čin saradnje.
02:09
Now not all lies are harmful.
Nisu sve laži škodljive.
02:12
Sometimes we're willing participants in deception
Nekad svojevoljno učestvujemo u prevari
02:14
for the sake of social dignity,
da bismo sačuvali dostojanstvo u društvu,
02:17
maybe to keep a secret that should be kept secret, secret.
a možda i da bismo zatajili tajnu koja treba da ostane tajna.
02:20
We say, "Nice song."
Reći ćemo: "Lijepa pjesma".
02:23
"Honey, you don't look fat in that, no."
"Ne, mila, ne izgledaš debela u tome".
02:25
Or we say, favorite of the digiratti,
Ili, kako to već digitalna elita voli da kaže,
02:28
"You know, I just fished that email out of my spam folder.
"Gle, upravo sam tu poruku spasila iz pregrade za neželjenu poštu.
02:30
So sorry."
Baš mi je žao".
02:33
But there are times when we are unwilling participants in deception.
Ali ponekad i nevoljno učestvujemo u zavaravanju.
02:36
And that can have dramatic costs for us.
I to nas može skupo stajati.
02:39
Last year saw 997 billion dollars
Prošle godine su kompanije izgubile 997 milijardi dolara
02:42
in corporate fraud alone in the United States.
na prevarama, samo u Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama.
02:45
That's an eyelash under a trillion dollars.
A to je tek nešto malo manje od hiljade milijardi dolara.
02:49
That's seven percent of revenues.
I to predstavlja sedam odsto naših prihoda.
02:51
Deception can cost billions.
Prevare mogu koštati milijarde dolara.
02:53
Think Enron, Madoff, the mortgage crisis.
Sjetite se Enrona, Madoffa, krize hipotekarnih kredita.
02:55
Or in the case of double agents and traitors,
Ili dvostrukih agenata i izdajica,
02:58
like Robert Hanssen or Aldrich Ames,
Kao što su Robert Hanssen ili Aldrich Ames,
03:01
lies can betray our country,
lažima se izdaje naža zemlja,
03:03
they can compromise our security, they can undermine democracy,
one nam mogu ugroziti bezbjednost, narušiti nam demokratiju,
03:05
they can cause the deaths of those that defend us.
uzrokovati smrt naših branitelja.
03:08
Deception is actually serious business.
Prevara je zapravo ozbiljan posao.
03:11
This con man, Henry Oberlander,
Ovaj prevarant, Henry Oberlander,
03:14
he was such an effective con man
Toliko je bio učinkovit
03:16
British authorities say
da britanske vlasti tvrde
03:18
he could have undermined the entire banking system of the Western world.
da je mogao potkopati čitav bankarski sistem zapadnog svijeta.
03:20
And you can't find this guy on Google; you can't find him anywhere.
I ništa o njemu nećete naći na Googlu; nigdje ništa o njemu nećete naći.
03:23
He was interviewed once, and he said the following.
Jednom je intervjuisan, i evo šta je tada rekao.
03:25
He said, "Look, I've got one rule."
Rekao je: "Vidite, ja imam jedno pravilo".
03:28
And this was Henry's rule, he said,
I to je bilo, kako je rekao, Henrijevo pravilo.
03:30
"Look, everyone is willing to give you something.
"Pazite, svako je spreman nešto da vam da.
03:33
They're ready to give you something for whatever it is they're hungry for."
Da vam da nešto u zamenu za ono za čim žudi".
03:35
And that's the crux of it.
I to je ključna stvar.
03:38
If you don't want to be deceived, you have to know,
Ako ne želite da vas prevare, morate znati
03:40
what is it that you're hungry for?
za čim žudite.
03:42
And we all kind of hate to admit it.
A to baš i ne volimo da priznamo.
03:44
We wish we were better husbands, better wives,
Želimo da budemo bolji muževi, bolje žene,
03:47
smarter, more powerful,
pametniji, moćniji,
03:50
taller, richer --
viši, bogatiji --
03:52
the list goes on.
i tako dalje.
03:54
Lying is an attempt to bridge that gap,
Laganjem pokušavamo da premostimo ovaj jaz,
03:56
to connect our wishes and our fantasies
kako bismo povezali želje i maštarije
03:58
about who we wish we were, how we wish we could be,
o tome ko bi smo želeli da budemo, kakvi bismo želeli da da možemo biti,
04:00
with what we're really like.
sa onim kakvi smo zaista.
04:03
And boy are we willing to fill in those gaps in our lives with lies.
Uh, kako samo želimo te praznine u našim životima da ispunimo lažima.
04:06
On a given day, studies show that you may be lied to
Istraživanja pokazuju da vas dnevno slažu
04:09
anywhere from 10 to 200 times.
između 10 i 200 puta.
04:12
Now granted, many of those are white lies.
Priznajem, mnoge od tih laži su bezazlene.
04:14
But in another study,
Međutim, jedna druga studija,
04:17
it showed that strangers lied three times
pokazala je da ljudi koji se ne poznaju lažu tri puta više
04:19
within the first 10 minutes of meeting each other.
u prvih deset minuta upoznavanja.
04:21
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
04:23
Now when we first hear this data, we recoil.
Prenerazimo se kad prvi put čujemo ovaj podatak.
04:25
We can't believe how prevalent lying is.
Teško nam je da povjerujemo koliko je laž sveprisutna.
04:28
We're essentially against lying.
U suštini, mi se protivimo laganju.
04:30
But if you look more closely,
Ali ako to pažljivije pogledamo,
04:32
the plot actually thickens.
pokazaće se da je to zapravo složenije.
04:34
We lie more to strangers than we lie to coworkers.
Više lažemo ljudima koje ne poznajemo nego onima sa kojima radimo.
04:36
Extroverts lie more than introverts.
Ekstrovertni ljudi lažu više od introvertnih.
04:39
Men lie eight times more about themselves
Muškarci osam puta više lažu o sebi
04:43
than they do other people.
nego što lažu druge ljude.
04:46
Women lie more to protect other people.
Žene više lažu da bi zaštitile druge.
04:48
If you're an average married couple,
Ako ste prosečan bračni par,
04:51
you're going to lie to your spouse
lagaćete supružnika u jednoj od
04:54
in one out of every 10 interactions.
10 interakcija.
04:56
Now you may think that's bad.
Mogli biste pomisliti da je to loše.
04:58
If you're unmarried, that number drops to three.
Ako niste vjenčani, taj broj pada na tri.
05:00
Lying's complex.
Lagati je složeno
05:02
It's woven into the fabric of our daily and our business lives.
Protkano nitima našeg svakodnoevnog i poslovnog života.
05:04
We're deeply ambivalent about the truth.
Kad je riječ o istini, tu smo duboko podvojeni.
05:07
We parse it out on an as-needed basis,
Analiziramo je onda kada nam zatreba,
05:09
sometimes for very good reasons,
nekad s veoma dobrim razlozima,
05:11
other times just because we don't understand the gaps in our lives.
a nekada, opet, prosto zato što ne razumijemo praznine u našim životima.
05:13
That's truth number two about lying.
I to je druga istinita činjenica o laganju.
05:16
We're against lying,
Protivimo se laganju,
05:18
but we're covertly for it
Ali smo, potajno, za laganje
05:20
in ways that our society has sanctioned
na načine koje je naše društvo sankcionisalo
05:22
for centuries and centuries and centuries.
kroz vijekove, vijekove i vijekove.
05:24
It's as old as breathing.
Staro je koliko i mi sami.
05:26
It's part of our culture, it's part of our history.
Dio je naše kulture, dio je naše istorije.
05:28
Think Dante, Shakespeare,
Sjetite se Dantea, Shakespearea,
05:30
the Bible, News of the World.
Biblije, tabloida News of the World.
05:33
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
05:36
Lying has evolutionary value to us as a species.
Za nas kao vrstu, laganje ima evolutivni značaj.
05:38
Researchers have long known
Istraživanja su davno pokazala
05:40
that the more intelligent the species,
da što je neka vrsta inteligentnija,
05:42
the larger the neocortex,
što joj je veći neokorteks,
05:44
the more likely it is to be deceptive.
to je sklonija laganju.
05:46
Now you might remember Koko.
Možda ćete se sjetiti Koko.
05:48
Does anybody remember Koko the gorilla who was taught sign language?
Da li se iko od vas sjeća Koko, gorile koju su učili jezik znakova?
05:50
Koko was taught to communicate via sign language.
Koko su, dakle, učili da komunicira jezikom znakova.
05:53
Here's Koko with her kitten.
Ovdje vidite Koko sa mačetom.
05:56
It's her cute little, fluffy pet kitten.
Njeno malo, čupavo, mače.
05:58
Koko once blamed her pet kitten
Koko je onomad svoje mače
06:01
for ripping a sink out of the wall.
optužila da je iščupala česmu iz zida
06:03
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
06:05
We're hardwired to become leaders of the pack.
Težnja da postanemo predvodnici nam je urođena.
06:07
It's starts really, really early.
I s tim počinjemo veoma, veoma rano.
06:09
How early?
Koliko rano?
06:11
Well babies will fake a cry,
Pa, bebe se pretvaraju da plaču,
06:13
pause, wait to see who's coming
zastanu, sačekaju da vide ko će doći
06:15
and then go right back to crying.
a onda nastave da plaču.
06:17
One-year-olds learn concealment.
Jednogodišnjaci nauče kao da nešto sakriju.
06:19
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
06:21
Two-year-olds bluff.
Dvogodišnjaci blefiraju.
06:23
Five-year-olds lie outright.
Petogodišnjaci vas gledaju u oči i lažu.
06:25
They manipulate via flattery.
Manipulišu laskanjem.
06:27
Nine-year-olds, masters of the cover up.
Devetogodišnjaci su majstori u zataškavanju.
06:29
By the time you enter college,
Dok stasate za fakultet,
06:32
you're going to lie to your mom in one out of every five interactions.
lagaćete majku tokom jednog od pet razgovora.
06:34
By the time we enter this work world and we're breadwinners,
Kad stupimo u svijet zaposlenih i počnemo da zarađujemo svoj hljeb,
06:37
we enter a world that is just cluttered
naći ćemo se u gunguli
06:40
with spam, fake digital friends,
od neželjenih poruka, lažnih digitalnih prijatelja,
06:42
partisan media,
pristrasnih medija,
06:44
ingenious identity thieves,
ingenioznih kradljivaca identiteta,
06:46
world-class Ponzi schemers,
prevaranata kroz šeme piramidalne štednje svjetske klase
06:48
a deception epidemic --
epidemiju laganja --
06:50
in short, what one author calls
ukratko, ono što je jedan autor nazvao
06:52
a post-truth society.
društvom iščezle istine.
06:54
It's been very confusing
I to nas zbunjuje
06:57
for a long time now.
već dugo.
06:59
What do you do?
Šta činiti?
07:03
Well there are steps we can take
Moguće je preduzeti neke korake
07:05
to navigate our way through the morass.
koji vode iz ove kaljuge.
07:07
Trained liespotters get to the truth 90 percent of the time.
Ljudi obučeni da prepoznaju lažove uspevaju u 90% slučajeva.
07:09
The rest of us, we're only 54 percent accurate.
Dok smo mi, ostali, uspješni u svega 54%.
07:12
Why is it so easy to learn?
Kako to da je tako lako naučiti? Pa,
07:15
There are good liars and there are bad liars. There are no real original liars.
ima dobrih i rđavih lažova. Lažovi nisu nikad zaista originalni.
07:17
We all make the same mistakes. We all use the same techniques.
Svi pravimo griješimo u istim stvarima. Svi se služimo istim tehnikama.
07:20
So what I'm going to do
Stoga, evo šta ću učiniti.
07:23
is I'm going to show you two patterns of deception.
Uputiću vas u dva obrasca laganja.
07:25
And then we're going to look at the hot spots and see if we can find them ourselves.
Zatim ćemo potražiti ključna mjesta i pokušati da ih prepoznamo.
07:27
We're going to start with speech.
Počećemo govorom.
07:30
(Video) Bill Clinton: I want you to listen to me.
(Video) Bill Clinton: Želim da me slušate.
07:33
I'm going to say this again.
Ovo ću ponovo reći.
07:35
I did not have sexual relations
Nisam imao seksualne odnose
07:37
with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.
sa tom ženom, gospođicom Lewinsky.
07:40
I never told anybody to lie,
Nikada nikome nisam rekao da laže,
07:44
not a single time, never.
ni jedan jedini put, nikada.
07:46
And these allegations are false.
Ove tvrdnje su lažne.
07:48
And I need to go back to work for the American people.
A sad treba da se vratim poslu u službi američkog naroda.
07:51
Thank you.
Hvala.
07:53
Pamela Meyer: Okay, what were the telltale signs?
Dobro, koji nam ga znaci ovdje odaju?
07:58
Well first we heard what's known as a non-contracted denial.
Prvo, čuli smo ono što se uobičajeno zove poricanje punim oblicima.
08:01
Studies show that people who are overdetermined in their denial
Studije pokazuju da oni koji djeluju previše uvjerljivo u poricanju
08:05
will resort to formal rather than informal language.
pribjegavaju formalnom izražavanju radije nego neformalnom.
08:08
We also heard distancing language: "that woman."
Čuli smo ga i kako se izrazom "s tom ženom" distancira.
08:11
We know that liars will unconsciously distance themselves
Znamo da se lažovi nesvjesno distanciraju
08:14
from their subject
od predmeta laži
08:16
using language as their tool.
služeći se jezikom kao alatkom.
08:18
Now if Bill Clinton had said, "Well, to tell you the truth ... "
Ali, da je Bill Clinton rekao: "Pa, da vam pravo kažem...".
08:21
or Richard Nixon's favorite, "In all candor ... "
ili, kako je to volio da kaže Richard Nixon: "U svoj iskrenosti..."
08:24
he would have been a dead giveaway
smjesta bi se odao
08:26
for any liespotter than knows
jer svako ko umije da prepozna lažova zna
08:28
that qualifying language, as it's called, qualifying language like that,
da pribjegavanje restrikcijama u jeziku, kako se to već zove,
08:30
further discredits the subject.
dodatno diskredituje subjekat.
08:33
Now if he had repeated the question in its entirety,
Da je ponovio čitavo pitanje,
08:35
or if he had peppered his account with a little too much detail --
ili da je svoju verziju događaja začinio sa previše detalja --
08:38
and we're all really glad he didn't do that --
a zaista nam je drago što to nije učinio --
08:42
he would have further discredited himself.
dodatno bi izgubio na uvjerljivosti.
08:44
Freud had it right.
I tu je Freud bio u pravu.
08:46
Freud said, look, there's much more to it than speech:
Frojd je rekao, vidite, nije samo riječ o govoru:
08:48
"No mortal can keep a secret.
"Nema tog smrtnika koji može da sačuva tajnu.
08:51
If his lips are silent, he chatters with his fingertips."
Ako i šuti kao zaliven, izbrbljaće se prstima".
08:54
And we all do it no matter how powerful you are.
A to svi činimo, bez obzira na to koliko smo moćni.
08:57
We all chatter with our fingertips.
Svi mi brbljamo prstima.
09:00
I'm going to show you Dominique Strauss-Kahn with Obama
Pokazaću vam Dominika Strauss-Kahna sa Obamom
09:02
who's chattering with his fingertips.
koji govori prstima.
09:05
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
09:08
Now this brings us to our next pattern,
I to nas sada dovodi do sljedećeg obrasca,
09:11
which is body language.
a to je govor tijela.
09:14
With body language, here's what you've got to do.
Evo šta treba da radite u vezi sa govorom tijela.
09:17
You've really got to just throw your assumptions out the door.
Treba da se otarasite svih pretpostavki.
09:20
Let the science temper your knowledge a little bit.
I dozvolite nauci da malo modifikuje vaše znanje.
09:23
Because we think liars fidget all the time.
Pošto mislimo da su lažovi uvijek nervozni.
09:25
Well guess what, they're known to freeze their upper bodies when they're lying.
E pa, vidite, zna se da im je, dok lažu, gornji dio tijela sasvim ukočen.
09:28
We think liars won't look you in the eyes.
Mislimo da lažovi izbjegavaju da nas gledaju u oči.
09:31
Well guess what, they look you in the eyes a little too much
E, pa nije tko, čak vas gledaju u oči malo više nego što bi trebalo.
09:34
just to compensate for that myth.
kako bi učinili suprotno tom mitu.
09:36
We think warmth and smiles
Mislimo da toplota i osmijesi
09:38
convey honesty, sincerity.
otrkivaju poštenje i iskrenost.
09:40
But a trained liespotter
Međutim, oni koji su obučeni da prepoznaju laganje
09:42
can spot a fake smile a mile away.
mogu izdaleka da prepoznaju lažni osmjeh.
09:44
Can you all spot the fake smile here?
Možete li ovdje da prepoznate lažni osmjeh?
09:46
You can consciously contract
Moguće je svjesno zgrčiti
09:50
the muscles in your cheeks.
mišiće obraza.
09:52
But the real smile's in the eyes, the crow's feet of the eyes.
Pravi osmjeh je, međutim, u očima, u uglovima očiju.
09:55
They cannot be consciously contracted,
Koji se ne mogu svjesno zgrčiti,
09:58
especially if you overdid the Botox.
pogotovu ne ako ste pretjerali sa botoksom.
10:00
Don't overdo the Botox; nobody will think you're honest.
Pazite da ne pretjerate sa botoksom, niko vam više neće vjerovati da ste iskreni.
10:02
Now we're going to look at the hot spots.
Sad ćemo potražiti ključna mjesta.
10:05
Can you tell what's happening in a conversation?
Možete li zaključiti šta se dešava u nekom razgovoru?
10:07
Can you start to find the hot spots
Možete li početi traganjem za ključnim mjestima
10:09
to see the discrepancies
kako biste vidjeli neslaganja
10:12
between someone's words and someone's actions?
između onoga što neko govori i što radi?
10:14
Now I know it seems really obvious,
Znam da djeluje sasvim očigledno,
10:16
but when you're having a conversation
ali kad sa nekim razgovarate
10:18
with someone you suspect of deception,
i sumnjate da vas laže
10:20
attitude is by far the most overlooked but telling of indicators.
držanje se daleko najčešće previdi iako daje
10:23
An honest person is going to be cooperative.
Poštena osoba će uvijek sarađivati.
10:26
They're going to show they're on your side.
Pokazaće vam da su na vašoj strani.
10:28
They're going to be enthusiastic.
Biće ushićeni.
10:30
They're going to be willing and helpful to getting you to the truth.
Pokazaće volju i spremnost da vam pomognu da dođete do istine.
10:32
They're going to be willing to brainstorm, name suspects,
Mozgaće sa vama, imenovaće sumnjive,
10:34
provide details.
snabdjeće vas detaljima.
10:37
They're going to say, "Hey,
Reći će: "Vidi,
10:39
maybe it was those guys in payroll that forged those checks."
možda su oni u obračunskom krivotvorili te čekove".
10:41
They're going to be infuriated if they sense they're wrongly accused
Biće bijesni ukoliko shvate da su pogrešno optuženi
10:44
throughout the entire course of the interview, not just in flashes;
tokom čitavog razgovora, ne samo na trenutke;
10:47
they'll be infuriated throughout the entire course of the interview.
biće bijesni tokom čitavog razgovora.
10:49
And if you ask someone honest
a ako poštenu osobu pitate
10:52
what should happen to whomever did forge those checks,
šta bi trebalo da se dogodi onome ko je te čekove krivotvorio,
10:54
an honest person is much more likely
poštena osoba će mnogo vjerovatnije
10:57
to recommend strict rather than lenient punishment.
preporučiti strožu kaznu umjesto blaže.
10:59
Now let's say you're having that exact same conversation
Sad zamislimo da isti takav razgovor vodimo
11:03
with someone deceptive.
sa nekim ko skriva istinu.
11:05
That person may be withdrawn,
Ta osoba može biti povučena,
11:07
look down, lower their voice,
spuštena pogleda, tiha glasa,
11:09
pause, be kind of herky-jerky.
zastajkuje, nepredvidljiva i nemirna.
11:11
Ask a deceptive person to tell their story,
Ako takvu osobu zamolite da vam ispriča svoju verziju priče,
11:13
they're going to pepper it with way too much detail
začiniće je suvišnim detaljima
11:15
in all kinds of irrelevant places.
koji su potpuno nevažni.
11:18
And then they're going to tell their story in strict chronological order.
I priču će vam ispričati strogo hronološkim redom.
11:21
And what a trained interrogator does
I šta tu onda uradi obučeni ispitivač -
11:24
is they come in and in very subtle ways
- dođe i na veoma vješt način
11:26
over the course of several hours,
tokom više sati razgovora,
11:28
they will ask that person to tell that story backwards,
traži od te osobe da priču ispriča unatraške,
11:30
and then they'll watch them squirm,
pa onda gleda kako se ta osoba migolji,
11:33
and track which questions produce the highest volume of deceptive tells.
kako bi mogao da primjeti na koja pitanja dobija najveće laži.
11:35
Why do they do that? Well we all do the same thing.
Zašto to tako rade? To svi radimo.
11:38
We rehearse our words,
Mi vježbamo kako ćemo nešto reći,
11:41
but we rarely rehearse our gestures.
ali rijetko vježbamo i pokrete tijelom.
11:43
We say "yes," we shake our heads "no."
Izgovorimo "da" ali glavom pokažemo "ne".
11:45
We tell very convincing stories, we slightly shrug our shoulders.
Dok pričamo veoma ubjedljive priče, jedva primjetno sliježemo ramenima.
11:47
We commit terrible crimes,
Kada počinimo stravične zločine,
11:50
and we smile at the delight in getting away with it.
smijemo se zadovoljni što smo se izvukli.
11:52
Now that smile is known in the trade as "duping delight."
U ovom poslu taj osmjeh zovemo "uživanjem u uspjeloj prevari" (duping delight).
11:55
And we're going to see that in several videos moving forward,
Vidjećemo ga u nekoliko sljedećih video isječaka,
11:58
but we're going to start -- for those of you who don't know him,
ali prvo počnimo sa - za one koji ga ne znaju,
12:01
this is presidential candidate John Edwards
ovo je predsjednički kandidat John Edwards
12:03
who shocked America by fathering a child out of wedlock.
koji je šokirao Ameriku otkrićem da ima vanbračno dijete.
12:06
We're going to see him talk about getting a paternity test.
Vidjećemo ga kako govori o utvrđivanju očinstva.
12:09
See now if you can spot him
Probajte sada da primjetite
12:12
saying, "yes" while shaking his head "no,"
kako govori "da" dok mu glava odmahuje "ne".
12:14
slightly shrugging his shoulders.
i lagano sliježe ramenima.
12:16
(Video) John Edwards: I'd be happy to participate in one.
(Video) John Edwards: "Sa zadovoljstvom bih u tome učestvovao.
12:18
I know that it's not possible that this child could be mine,
Znam da to dijete nikako ne može biti moje.
12:20
because of the timing of events.
zbog vremena kada se sve događalo.
12:23
So I know it's not possible.
Stoga znam da to nije moguće.
12:25
Happy to take a paternity test,
Rado ću se podvrgnuti utvrđivanju očinstva,
12:27
and would love to see it happen.
i volio bih da se to i dogodi".
12:29
Interviewer: Are you going to do that soon? Is there somebody --
Ispitivač: "Hoćete li to uskoro učiniti? Ima li koga --"
12:31
JE: Well, I'm only one side. I'm only one side of the test.
JE: "Pa, ja sam samo jedna strana. Jedna strana u testiranju.
12:34
But I'm happy to participate in one.
Ali ću rado učestvovati".
12:37
PM: Okay, those head shakes are much easier to spot
PM: OK, mnogo je lakše primjetiti ovo klimanje glavom.
12:40
once you know to look for them.
ako znate šta treba da tražite.
12:42
There're going to be times
Jednom će
12:44
when someone makes one expression
neko napraviti izraz lica
12:46
while masking another that just kind of leaks through in a flash.
kojim će prekriti drugi izraz a on će se, na trenutak, nekako probiti.
12:48
Murderers are known to leak sadness.
Poznato je da ubicama procuri tuga.
12:52
Your new joint venture partner might shake your hand,
Novi poslovni partner se s vama može rukovati,
12:54
celebrate, go out to dinner with you
proslaviti s vama, izići na vereču
12:56
and then leak an expression of anger.
a onda će mu se slučajno oteti izraz bijesa.
12:58
And we're not all going to become facial expression experts overnight here,
Nećemo svi preko noći postati stručnjaci za izraze lica,
13:01
but there's one I can teach you that's very dangerous, and it's easy to learn,
ali jedan veoma opasan, mogu vas naučiti, lako je,
13:04
and that's the expression of contempt.
a riječ je o izrazu prijezira.
13:07
Now with anger, you've got two people on an even playing field.
Kod bijesa, u pitanju je dvoje ljudi na istoj ravni.
13:10
It's still somewhat of a healthy relationship.
Tako da tu, bar donekle, imamo zdrav odnos.
13:13
But when anger turns to contempt,
Ali, kada bijes preraste u prezir.
13:15
you've been dismissed.
bićete otpisani.
13:17
It's associated with moral superiority.
Prezir se vezuje za moralnu superiornost.
13:19
And for that reason, it's very, very hard to recover from.
I stoga je iz njega veoma, veoma teško izići.
13:21
Here's what it looks like.
Evo kako to izgleda.
13:24
It's marked by one lip corner
Vidi se u uglu usne
13:26
pulled up and in.
koji se malo podigne i uvuče.
13:28
It's the only asymmetrical expression.
Taj je izraz jedini asimetričan.
13:30
And in the presence of contempt,
Kada je prisutan prezir,
13:33
whether or not deception follows --
bilo da za njim uslijedi laž ili ne --
13:35
and it doesn't always follow --
jer ona ne uslijedi uvijek --
13:37
look the other way, go the other direction,
okrenite se na drugu stranu, potražite nešto drugo,
13:39
reconsider the deal,
razmislite još jednom o postignutom dogovoru,
13:41
say, "No thank you. I'm not coming up for just one more nightcap. Thank you."
i recite: "Neka, hvala, ne bih da se pojavljujem zbog kasnovečernjeg ćaskanja uz čašicu. Hvala".
13:43
Science has surfaced
Nauka je izdvojila
13:47
many, many more indicators.
mnogo, mnogo drugih pokazatelja.
13:49
We know, for example,
Znamo, na primjer,
13:51
we know liars will shift their blink rate,
da se lažovima mijenja učestalost treptanja,
13:53
point their feet towards an exit.
da su im stopala usmjerena prema izlazu.
13:55
They will take barrier objects
da će se poslužiti predmetima od kojih mogu načiniti prepreku
13:57
and put them between themselves and the person that is interviewing them.
između sebe i osobe koja ih ispituje.
13:59
They'll alter their vocal tone,
Govoriće promjenjivim visinama glasa,
14:02
often making their vocal tone much lower.
često će govoriti mnogo dubljim glasom nego inače.
14:04
Now here's the deal.
Evo o čemu je riječ.
14:07
These behaviors are just behaviors.
Ovo su samo oblici ponašanja.
14:09
They're not proof of deception.
Njima se ne dokazuje laž.
14:12
They're red flags.
Oni su znak za uzbunu.
14:14
We're human beings.
Svi smo ljudska bića.
14:16
We make deceptive flailing gestures all over the place all day long.
Stalno prevarantski mlataramo rukama na sve strane,
14:18
They don't mean anything in and of themselves.
Ali to mlataranje ne znači ništa samo po sebi.
14:21
But when you see clusters of them, that's your signal.
Međutim, ako primjetite da se to mlataranje ponavlja u nizovima, eto vam znaka.
14:23
Look, listen, probe, ask some hard questions,
Pogledajte malo bolje, poslušajte, ispitajte i postavite teška pitanja,
14:26
get out of that very comfortable mode of knowing,
napustite taj udoban režim rada kada nešto saznajete,
14:29
walk into curiosity mode, ask more questions,
i prebacite se u režim znatiželje, više zapitkujte,
14:32
have a little dignity, treat the person you're talking to with rapport.
zadržite dostojanstvenost, imajte odnos međusobnog uvažavanja
14:35
Don't try to be like those folks on "Law & Order" and those other TV shows
Ni ne pokušavajte da se ponašate kao oni iz serije "Red i zakon", i njima sličnih
14:38
that pummel their subjects into submission.
koji svoje ispitanike silom natjeraju na pokornost.
14:41
Don't be too aggressive, it doesn't work.
Ne budite previše agresivni, to prosto ne pali.
14:43
Now we've talked a little bit
Eto, popričali smo o tome
14:46
about how to talk to someone who's lying
kako valja razgovarati sa lažovima
14:48
and how to spot a lie.
i kako prepoznati laž.
14:50
And as I promised, we're now going to look at what the truth looks like.
Ali sam vam obećala i da ćemo pričati o tome kako izgleda istina.
14:52
But I'm going to show you two videos,
Prikazaću vam dva snimka,
14:55
two mothers -- one is lying, one is telling the truth.
dvije majke -- jedna laže dok druga govori istinu.
14:57
And these were surfaced
Primjetio ih je
15:00
by researcher David Matsumoto in California.
istraživač David Matsumoto iz Kalifornije.
15:02
And I think they're an excellent example
A ja mislim da su odličan primjer
15:04
of what the truth looks like.
kako izgleda istina.
15:06
This mother, Diane Downs,
Ova majka, Diane Downs,
15:08
shot her kids at close range,
pucala je iz blizine u svoju djecu,
15:10
drove them to the hospital
odvezla ih je u bolnicu
15:12
while they bled all over the car,
dok su krvarili svuda po autu,
15:14
claimed a scraggy-haired stranger did it.
i ustvrdila je da je pucao nepoznati čovjek raščupane kose.
15:16
And you'll see when you see the video,
Kada budete gledali snimak, primjetićete,
15:18
she can't even pretend to be an agonizing mother.
da ona čak nije u stanju ni da se pretvara da je rastrzana brigom za djecu.
15:20
What you want to look for here
Ovdje treba primjetiti
15:22
is an incredible discrepancy
nevjerovatno neslaganje
15:24
between horrific events that she describes
između stravičnih događaja koje ona opisuje
15:26
and her very, very cool demeanor.
i izuzetno hladnog ponašanja.
15:28
And if you look closely, you'll see duping delight throughout this video.
A ako pažljivo posmatrate, primjetićete i zadovoljstvo zbog uspjele prevare tokom čitavog snimka.
15:30
(Video) Diane Downs: At night when I close my eyes,
(Snimak) Diane Downs: Noću, kad zatvorim oči,
15:33
I can see Christie reaching her hand out to me while I'm driving,
Vidim Christi kako ka meni pruža ruke dok je vozim,
15:35
and the blood just kept coming out of her mouth.
dok joj krv nadire iz usta.
15:38
And that -- maybe it'll fade too with time --
Možda će to s vremenom izblijedjeti --
15:41
but I don't think so.
iako mislim da neće.
15:43
That bothers me the most.
To me najviše proganja.
15:45
PM: Now I'm going to show you a video
PM: Sad ću vam prikazati snimak
15:55
of an actual grieving mother, Erin Runnion,
majke koja zaista pati, Erin Runnion,
15:57
confronting her daughter's murderer and torturer in court.
kako se na suđenju suočava sa ubicom i mučiteljem svoje kćerke.
15:59
Here you're going to see no false emotion,
Ovdje nećete vidjeti lažna osjećanja,
16:03
just the authentic expression of a mother's agony.
već istinski izraz majčinske patnje.
16:05
(Video) Erin Runnion: I wrote this statement on the third anniversary
(Snimak) Erin Runnion: Ovu izjavu sam napisala na treću godišnjicu
16:08
of the night you took my baby,
noći kada si mi oteo dijete,
16:10
and you hurt her,
povrijedio je,
16:12
and you crushed her,
i slomio je,
16:14
you terrified her until her heart stopped.
prestravio je toliko da joj je srce stalo.
16:16
And she fought, and I know she fought you.
A ona se opirala, i znam da se borila.
16:20
But I know she looked at you
I znam da te je gledala onim
16:23
with those amazing brown eyes,
divnim smeđim očima,
16:25
and you still wanted to kill her.
a ti si i dalje želio da je ubiješ.
16:27
And I don't understand it,
To ne razumijem,
16:30
and I never will.
i nikada neću razumjeti.
16:32
PM: Okay, there's no doubting the veracity of those emotions.
PM: Dakle, nema nikakve sumnje u iskrenost ovih osjećanja.
16:35
Now the technology around what the truth looks like
Tehnološka dostignuća su uznapredovala i omogućuju nam da
16:39
is progressing on, the science of it.
naučno pokažemo kako izgleda istina.
16:42
We know for example
Na primjer, sada već imamo posebne naprave
16:45
that we now have specialized eye trackers and infrared brain scans,
za praćenje kretanja očne jabučice, te infracrvene snimke mozga,
16:47
MRI's that can decode the signals that our bodies send out
snimke magnetne rezonance koji tumače znakove koje naša tijela šalju
16:50
when we're trying to be deceptive.
onda kada pokušavamo da prevarimo.
16:53
And these technologies are going to be marketed to all of us
I te će nam tehnologije biti svima ponuđene na tržištu
16:55
as panaceas for deceit,
kao čarobni lijek protiv laži,
16:58
and they will prove incredibly useful some day.
i jednoga dana će se pokazati nevjerovatno korisnim.
17:00
But you've got to ask yourself in the meantime:
Ali, do tada, treba sebi postaviti pitanje:
17:03
Who do you want on your side of the meeting,
Ko biste željeli da budete na takvom jednom razgovoru,
17:05
someone who's trained in getting to the truth
osoba obučena da stigne do istine
17:07
or some guy who's going to drag a 400-pound electroencephalogram
ili neko ko sa sobom vucara EEG od 180 kg
17:10
through the door?
i s njim pokušava proći kroz vrata?
17:12
Liespotters rely on human tools.
Ljudi obučeni da prepoznaju laž služe se ljudskim alatkama.
17:14
They know, as someone once said,
Kako je to nekad neko rekao, oni znaju:
17:18
"Character's who you are in the dark."
"Ljudski karakter izlazi na vidjelo u mraku".
17:20
And what's kind of interesting
I baš to je zanimljivo
17:22
is that today we have so little darkness.
jer je u savremenom svijetu ostalo tako malo tame.
17:24
Our world is lit up 24 hours a day.
Živimo u svijetu koji je osvijetljen tokom čitavog dana.
17:26
It's transparent
Sve je vidljivo
17:29
with blogs and social networks
kroz blogove i društvene mreže
17:31
broadcasting the buzz of a whole new generation of people
kojima se šire priče o čitavoj jednoj generaciji
17:33
that have made a choice to live their lives in public.
koja je odlučila da svoje živote izloži javnosti.
17:35
It's a much more noisy world.
Ovaj svijet je daleko bučniji.
17:38
So one challenge we have
Otuda je pred nama izazov
17:42
is to remember,
da ne nikako ne smetnemo s uma da
17:44
oversharing, that's not honesty.
pretjerano otkrivanje ne znači i iskrenost.
17:46
Our manic tweeting and texting
Naše manijakalno slanje kratkih poruka Twitterom ili mobilnim telefonima
17:49
can blind us to the fact
prijeti da nas zaslijepi te da zaboravimo
17:51
that the subtleties of human decency -- character integrity --
na ono teško uhvatljivo u čestitosti -- ličnost i integritet.
17:53
that's still what matters, that's always what's going to matter.
Jer to ostaje najvažnije i to će uvijek biti najvažnije.
17:56
So in this much noisier world,
Stoga,u ovom tako bučnom svijetu,
17:59
it might make sense for us
i dalje ima smisla
18:01
to be just a little bit more explicit
biti nešto izričitiji kada je riječ
18:03
about our moral code.
o moralnim vrijednostima.
18:05
When you combine the science of recognizing deception
Kada se ukrste naučna saznanja o prepoznavanju laži
18:08
with the art of looking, listening,
sa vještinom posmatranja, slušanja,
18:10
you exempt yourself from collaborating in a lie.
uspjećete da izbjegnete da sarađujete sa onim ko laže.
18:12
You start up that path
Krenite putem koji podrazumijeva
18:15
of being just a little bit more explicit,
da ćete biti tek nešto malo više izričiti
18:17
because you signal to everyone around you,
jer ćete time poslati signal svima u okruženju,
18:19
you say, "Hey, my world, our world,
"Slušaj, moj svijet, naš svijet,
18:21
it's going to be an honest one.
biće svijet iskrenih.
18:24
My world is going to be one where truth is strengthened
U mom svijetu jačaće istina
18:26
and falsehood is recognized and marginalized."
a pretvaranje će biti razotkriveno i skrajnuto".
18:28
And when you do that,
Ako se tako ponašate,
18:31
the ground around you starts to shift just a little bit.
prilike oko vas će se malo ipak promjeniti.
18:33
And that's the truth. Thank you.
I to je istina. Hvala.
18:36
(Applause)
(Aplauz)
18:39
Translated by Teodora Kusovac
Reviewed by Nela Kacmarcik

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About the speaker:

Pamela Meyer - Lie detector
Pamela Meyer thinks we’re facing a pandemic of deception, but she’s arming people with tools that can help take back the truth.

Why you should listen
Social media expert Pamela Meyer can tell when you’re lying. If it’s not your words that give you away, it’s your posture, eyes, breathing rate, fidgets, and a host of other indicators. Worse, we are all lied to up to 200 times a day, she says, from the white lies that allow society to function smoothly to the devastating duplicities that bring down corporations and break up families.

Working with a team of researchers over several years, Meyer, who is CEO of social networking company Simpatico Networks, collected and reviewed most of the research on deception that has been published, from such fields as law-enforcement, military, psychology and espionage. She then became an expert herself, receiving advanced training in deception detection, including multiple courses of advanced training in interrogation, microexpression analysis, statement analysis, behavior and body language interpretation, and emotion recognition. Her research is synthetized in her bestselling book Liespotting.
More profile about the speaker
Pamela Meyer | Speaker | TED.com