TEDMED 2012
Jonathan Eisen: Meet your microbes
乔纳森·艾森：认识你的微生物群落
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我们的身体上覆盖了海量的微生物——其中有致病的病原体，也有我们了解甚少，可能在维持我们健康的“好”微生物。在 TEDMED，微生物学家乔纳森·艾森分享了人类目前对这些微生物的认识，包括一些意想不到的利用这些益生菌群的方式。
Jonathan Eisen - Biologist
Jonathan Eisen studies the ecology and evolution of microbial communities -- and their co-evolution with their hosts. Full bio
Jonathan Eisen studies the ecology and evolution of microbial communities -- and their co-evolution with their hosts. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'm going to start with a little story.
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我来先讲一个小故事
00:14
So, I grew up in this neighborhood. When I was 15 years old,
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我在附近的地区长大，我15岁时
00:17
I went from being what I think was a strapping young athlete,
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在四个月里，我从一个自认为的体格强壮的年轻运动员
00:21
over four months, slowly wasting away until
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逐渐消瘦
00:25
I was basically a famine victim
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直到变成一个饥民
00:27
with an unquenchable thirst.
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有着永不满足的饥渴感
00:29
I had basically digested away my body.
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基本上我已经消化光了自己的身体
00:33
And this all came to a head when I was on a backpacking trip,
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情况严重到，在我的一次背包旅途中
00:37
my first one ever actually, on Old Rag Mountain
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实际上是我的第一次，在西弗吉尼亚的 Old Rag Mountain
00:39
in West Virginia, and was putting my face into puddles
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我像狗一样
00:43
of water and drinking like a dog.
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把脸埋在水坑里喝水
00:45
That night, I was taken into the emergency room
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那天晚上，我被带到急救室
00:50
and diagnosed as a type 1 diabetic in full-blown ketoacidosis.
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被诊断患有I型糖尿病导致的酮酸中毒
00:54
And I recovered, thanks to the miracles of modern medicine,
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后来我康复了，感谢现代医学的奇迹
01:00
insulin and other things, and gained all my weight back and more.
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胰岛素和其它东西， 我的体重全恢复了，还有些增长
01:05
And something festered inside me after this happened.
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这些事情发生后， 我心里开始有了些想法
01:11
What I thought about was, what caused the diabetes?
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当时我想的是， 糖尿病是什么导致的?
01:14
You see, diabetes is an autoimmune disease
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你们知道， 糖尿病是一种免疫疾病
01:16
where your body fights itself, and at the time people thought
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你的身体攻击正常细胞，当时人们认为
01:19
that somehow maybe exposure to a pathogen
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可能在一些情况下，人体接触到病原体
01:22
had triggered my immune system to fight the pathogen
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免疫系统被激活，与病原体作斗争
01:27
and then kill the cells that make insulin.
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结果杀死了制造胰岛素的细胞
01:29
And this is what I thought for a long period of time,
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对于这个解释，我思考了很长一段时间
01:31
and that's in fact what medicine and people have focused on quite a bit,
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这也是医学和大众主要关注的理论
01:35
the microbes that do bad things.
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微生物是有害的
01:38
And that's where I need my assistant here now.
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现在我需要我的助理帮忙
01:41
You may recognize her.
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你们可能认得她
01:44
So, I went yesterday, I apologize, I skipped a few of the talks,
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其实昨天，很抱歉，我没来听一些演讲
01:49
and I went over to the National Academy of Sciences building,
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我去了一下国家科学院的大楼
01:52
and they sell toys, giant microbes.
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楼里有人在卖玩具，巨型微生物
01:57
And here we go!
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接好了!
02:00
So you have caught flesh-eating disease if you caught that one.
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如果你接住那一个，你就已经感染了食肉细菌
02:05
I gotta get back out my baseball ability here.
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显然我的棒球技能已经不比当年了
02:10
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
02:13
So, unfortunately or not surprisingly, most of the microbes
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所以，不幸的是，也不让人惊奇的是
02:20
they sell at the National Academy building are pathogens.
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他们在国家科学院大楼卖的微生物玩具是病原菌
02:23
Everybody focuses on the things that kill us,
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大家都只关注致死的微生物
02:26
and that's what I was focusing on.
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那也是我当时研究的重点
02:28
And it turns out that we are covered in a cloud of microbes,
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实际上我们正在被厚厚的一层微生物覆盖
02:32
and those microbes actually do us good much of the time,
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而多数情况下, 这些微生物对我们是有益的
02:37
rather than killing us.
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而不是有害致死的
02:38
And so, we've known about this for some period of time.
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而且我们认识到这一点，已经有一段时间了
02:41
People have used microscopes to look at the microbes that cover us,
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人们用显微镜观察覆盖人体的微生物
02:45
I know you're not paying attention to me, but ...
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我知道你没在听我讲话，但是……
02:46
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
02:49
The microbes that cover us.
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这些覆盖人体的微生物
02:50
And if you look at them in the microscope,
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如果你用显微镜观察它们
02:54
you can see that we actually have 10 times as many cells
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你会发现在我们身上的微生物细胞
02:57
of microbes on us as we have human cells.
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是人体细胞数量的10倍
03:01
There's more mass in the microbes than the mass of our brain.
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我们身上微生物的质量比我们大脑的质量还重
03:05
We are literally a teeming ecosystem of microorganisms.
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我们的身体实际上是一个丰富的微生物生态系统
03:10
And unfortunately, if you want to learn about the microorganisms,
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不幸的是, 如果你想要研究微生物
03:14
just looking at them in a microscope is not sufficient.
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仅仅用显微镜观察是不够的
03:16
And so we just heard about the DNA sequencing.
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我们刚才听到了DNA测序
03:19
It turns out that one of the best ways to look at microbes
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事实证明研究和理解微生物的最好方法之一
03:22
and to understand them is to look at their DNA.
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是研究它们的DNA
03:24
And that's what I've been doing for 20 years,
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这正是我20年来一直在做的事
03:26
using DNA sequencing, collecting samples from various places,
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我通过DNA测序来分析从不同来源采来的样品
03:30
including the human body, reading the DNA sequence
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其中包括人体样本，测出DNA序列
03:33
and then using that DNA sequencing to tell us about
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然后从这些DNA序列中了解
03:36
the microbes that are in a particular place.
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在特定位置的微生物
03:38
And what's amazing, when you use this technology,
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神奇的是，在使用这个技术时
03:41
for example, looking at humans, we're not just covered
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比如说，研究人体系统
03:44
in a sea of microbes.
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我们不只是被覆盖在数量众多的微生物中
03:45
There are thousands upon thousands of different kinds of microbes on us.
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我们身上的微生物种类也是成千上万的
03:50
We have millions of genes of microbes in our human
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我们覆盖的微生物种群
03:55
microbiome covering us.
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有数百类个基因
03:57
And so this microbial diversity differs between people,
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而且每个人身上的微生物种群各不相同
04:01
and what people have been thinking about in the last 10,
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在过去的10或15年里，人们一直在思考
04:04
maybe 15 years is, maybe these microbes,
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也许这些微生物
04:07
this microbial cloud in and on us,
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这些人体上覆盖的微生物云
04:09
and the variation between us, may be responsible
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以及人和人之间的微生物差异
04:13
for some of the health and illness differences between us.
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对人类的健康和疾病的个体差异有重要影响
04:16
And that comes back to the diabetes story I was telling you.
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这就回到了我之前和你们说过的糖尿病的故事
04:19
It turns out that people now think that one of the triggers
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结果是人们现在认为
04:23
for type 1 diabetes is not fighting a pathogen,
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一型糖尿病诱因之一并不是与病原体的战争
04:25
but is in fact trying to -- miscommunicating with the microbes
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却是因为它其实在试着
04:30
that live in and on you.
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与身体内外的微生物传达错误的信息
04:31
And somehow maybe the microbial community that's
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然后这些在我身体内外的微生物群落不知怎么地消失了
04:34
in and on me got off, and then this triggered some sort
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这触发了某种免疫反应
04:38
of immune response and led to me killing the cells
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让我的身体消灭了自身的
04:40
that make insulin in my body.
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制造胰岛素的细胞
04:42
And so what I want to tell you about for a few minutes is,
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所以在接下来几分钟我想和你们分享的是
04:45
what people have learned using DNA sequencing techniques
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人们通过DNA测序技术了解到哪些内容
04:49
in particular, to study the microbial cloud
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尤其是对于身体内外的
04:53
that lives in and on us.
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微生物云
04:54
And I want to tell you a story about a personal project.
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我想和你们讲一个有关我个人研究课题的故事
04:57
My first personal experience with studying the microbes
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我自己的第一次研究人体微生物的经历
05:00
on the human body actually came from a talk that I gave,
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实际上就来自
05:04
right around the corner from here at Georgetown.
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我在街对角的乔治城大学做的一个演讲
05:06
I gave a talk, and a family friend who happened to be
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我在那做了个演讲，而乔治城大学医学院的院长
05:09
the Dean of Georgetown Medical School was at the talk,
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刚好是我的一个家族方面的朋友，去听了演讲
05:11
and came up to me afterwards saying, they were doing
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会后他上来和我说，他们正在
05:14
a study of ileal transplants in people.
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做人体回肠移植方面的研究
05:17
And they wanted to look at the microbes after the transplants.
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他们想要研究移植后的微生物分布情况
05:21
And so I started a collaboration with this person,
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所以我开始和
05:24
Michael Zasloff and Thomas Fishbein, to look at the microbes
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Michael Zasloff 和 Thomas Fishbein 合作
05:27
that colonized these ilea after they were transplanted into a recipient.
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观察回肠移植后微生物繁殖情况
05:32
And I can tell you all the details about the microbial study
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我可以和你们聊这项研究的所有细节
05:35
that we did there, but the reason I want to tell you this story
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但是我想给你们讲这个故事的原因是
05:37
is something really striking that they did at the beginning
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他们在这个课题开始阶段
05:40
of this project.
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做了特别惊人的尝试
05:42
They take the donor ileum, which is filled with microbes from a donor
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他们取得捐赠者的回肠，里边充满捐赠者身上的微生物
05:46
and they have a recipient who might have a problem
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同时有受赠者，他们体内的微生物菌群可能出了些问题
05:48
with their microbial community, say Crohn's disease,
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比如说，克罗恩病患者
05:51
and they sterilized the donor ileum.
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然后他们消毒捐赠者的回肠
05:54
Cleaned out all the microbes, and then put it in the recipient.
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清除所有的微生物，然后移植到受赠者体内
05:59
They did this because this was common practice
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他们这样做，因为这是医学上的通用做法
06:01
in medicine, even though it was obvious
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即便它显然
06:04
that this was not a good idea.
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不是一个好主意
06:07
And fortunately, in the course of this project,
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幸好在这个研究过程中
06:10
the transplant surgeons and the other people
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移植外科医生和其他成员决定
06:12
decided, forget common practice. We have to switch.
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抛开通用做法，我们必须换个办法
06:17
So they actually switched to leaving some of the microbial
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所以他们留下回肠中的部分微生物菌群
06:21
community in the ileum. They leave the microbes with the donor,
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他们留下了捐赠者体内的微生物
06:25
and theoretically that might help the people who are
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理论上说，这可能
06:28
receiving this ileal transplant.
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对接受回肠移植的人有益
06:30
And so, people -- this is a study that I did now.
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所以，大家，这就是我这些年来所做的研究
06:34
In the last few years there's been a great expansion
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在过去几年中，通过DNA技术来观察人体内外的微生物研究
06:36
in using DNA technology to study the microbes in and on people.
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有了长足进展
06:40
There's something called the Human Microbiome Project
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人类微生物菌落项目
06:42
that's going on in the United States,
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正在美国展开
06:44
and MetaHIT going on in Europe, and a lot of other projects.
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在欧洲, 有人类肠道宏基因组计划(MetaHIT)和很多其它研究
06:46
And when people have done a variety of studies,
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当他们做了各种研究
06:50
they have learned things such as, when a baby is
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他们发现了各种现象，比如一个婴儿
06:53
born, during vaginal delivery you get colonized by the
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从产道出生时
06:56
microbes from your mother.
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母体的微生物菌群会移植到婴儿上
06:57
There are risk factors associated with cesarean sections,
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剖腹产有一些风险
07:00
some of those risk factors may be due to mis-colonization
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其中有可能包括错误移植
07:04
when you carve a baby out of its mother
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当婴儿经由剖腹被取出母体
07:07
rather than being delivered through the birth canal.
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而非从产道生出时, 这有可能发生
07:10
And a variety of other studies have shown that the
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许多不同研究显示
07:13
microbial community that lives in and on us
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在我们身体和表面的微生物
07:15
helps in development of the immune system,
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对免疫系统的发育有益
07:17
helps in fighting off pathogens, helps in our metabolism,
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帮助击退病原体，促进新陈代谢
07:22
and determining our metabolic rate, probably
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决定我们的代谢速度
07:25
determines our odor, and may even shape our behavior
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可能决定我们的体味
07:28
in a variety of ways.
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还可能在很多方面塑造我们的行为
07:30
And so, these studies have documented or suggested
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因此这些研究证明或者推断了
07:33
out of a variety of important functions for the microbial community,
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这些微生物群落的各种重要功能
07:38
this cloud, the non-pathogens that live in and on us.
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这些在我们体内和表面生活的非病原体，这层“云”的功能
07:42
And one area that I think is very interesting,
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有个领域我觉得很有意思
07:46
which many of you may have now that we've thrown
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就是既然刚才我们刚扔了一群菌到人群中
07:48
microbes into the crowd, is something that I would call "germophobia."
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你们中间有许多人也许有这个心态, 我叫它“恐菌症”
07:52
So people are really into cleanliness, right?
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人们真的很重视清洁, 是吗？
07:55
We have antibiotics in our kitchen counters,
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我们的厨房桌台上有抗菌用品
07:57
people are washing every part of them all of the time,
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人们时时刻刻都在洗身上的每个部分
08:00
we pump antibiotics into our food, into our communities,
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抗生素大量地流入我们的食物和居住环境中
08:05
we take antibiotics excessively.
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我们无节制地滥用抗生素
08:08
And killing pathogens is a good thing if you're sick,
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如果你生病了，杀死病原体是件好事
08:12
but we should understand that when we pump chemicals
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但我们要知道，当我们把化工产品
08:15
and antibiotics into our world, that we're also killing
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和抗生素注入我们的生活中时，我们也在杀死
08:18
the cloud of microbes that live in and on us.
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生活在我们体内和表面的微生物云
08:20
And excessive use of antibiotics, in particular in children,
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研究发现，过度使用抗生素，尤其在儿童身上
08:23
has been shown to be associated with, again, risk factors
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和肥胖、自身免疫疾病
08:26
for obesity, for autoimmune diseases, for a variety
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以及其它各种健康问题都有关
08:31
of problems that are probably due to disruption
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因为抗生素破坏了
08:33
of the microbial community.
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人体的微生物群落
08:36
So the microbial community can go wrong
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所以微生物群落可能会出问题
08:39
whether we want it to or not,
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不论我们喜不喜欢
08:41
or we can kill it with antibiotics,
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或者我们可以用抗生素杀死这些微生物
08:43
but what can we do to restore it?
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但是我们怎样才能重建这些群落?
08:45
I'm sure many people here have heard about probiotics.
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我相信在座的许多人听说过益生菌群
08:48
Probiotics are one thing that you can try and do to restore
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人们可以尝试用益生菌来重建
08:51
the microbial community that is in and on you.
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体内和体表的微生物群落
08:54
And they definitely have been shown to be effective in some cases.
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已经有一些使用益生菌的成功案例
08:57
There's a project going on at UC Davis where people are using
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在加州大学戴维斯分校有一项研究
09:00
probiotics to try and treat, prevent,
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人们尝试用益生菌来治疗和预防
09:03
necrotizing enterocolitis in premature infants.
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早产儿的坏死性小肠结肠炎
09:06
Premature infants have real problems with their microbial community.
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早产儿身上有不少和微生物群落相关的问题
09:09
And it may be that probiotics can help prevent
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也许益生菌可以帮助预防
09:12
the development of this horrible necrotizing enterocolitis
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早产儿罹患
09:15
in these premature infants.
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这种可怕的坏死性小肠结肠炎
09:16
But probiotics are sort of a very, very simple solution.
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但是益生菌是一个非常，非常简单的解决方法
09:20
Most of the pills that you can take or the yogurts that you can eat
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许多你可以吃的药丸或酸奶
09:24
have one or two species in them, maybe five species in them,
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含有一或两种，还可能五种细菌
09:28
and the human community is thousands upon thousands of species.
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而人体微生物群落包含数千个菌种
09:32
So what can we do to restore our microbial community
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所以我们怎样才能重建我们的微生物群落
09:36
when we have thousands and thousands of species on us?
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在我们身上有数千种微生物的情况下？
09:39
Well, one thing that animals seem to do is,
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好吧，动物们所做的一件事是
09:42
they eat poo -- coprophagia.
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它们吃类便——食粪症
09:46
And it turns out that many veterinarians,
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实际上许多兽医
09:51
old school veterinarians in particular,
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尤其是老派的兽医
09:53
have been doing something called "poo tea,"
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一直在用一种叫“粪便茶”的东西
09:55
not booty, but poo tea, to treat colic and other
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不是屁屁，而是粪便茶来治疗
10:01
ailments in horses and cows and things like that,
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马和牛的腹绞痛和其它类似疾病
10:05
where you make tea from the poo from a healthy
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就是用健康动物的粪便做成茶
10:09
individual animal and you feed it to a sick animal.
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然后喂给生病的动物喝
10:12
Although, unless you have a fistulated cow with a big hole in its side,
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但是，除非你有一头身上装了研究反刍消化装置的牛，肚子一侧开了个大洞
10:16
and you can put your hand into its rumen,
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你可以把手伸进它的瘤胃
10:19
it's hard to imagine that the delivery of microbes
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很难想象从嘴巴经过整个消化道上部
10:22
directly into the mouth and through the entire
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传输微生物
10:25
top of the digestive tract is the best delivery system,
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是最好的传输方式
10:29
so you may have heard in people they are now doing
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所以你们可能听说过有人在做
10:33
fecal transplants, where rather than delivering
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粪便移植，与其将少数益生菌种
10:38
a couple of probiotic microbes through the mouth,
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从口腔传入体内
10:40
they are delivering a community of probiotics,
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他们将一个益生菌群
10:43
a community of microbes from a healthy donor,
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来自一个健康的捐赠者的整个微生物群落
10:46
through the other end.
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从消化道的另一端送入体内
10:48
And this has turned out to be very effective in fighting
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事实表明这种做法
10:51
certain intransigent infectious diseases
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对于某些顽固的传染病很有疗效
10:54
like Clostridium difficile infections that can stay
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比如可以在人体内存活多年的
10:58
with people for years and years and years.
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艰难梭状芽孢杆菌感染
11:00
Transplants of the feces, of the microbes from the feces,
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粪便移植
11:05
from a healthy donor has actually been shown to cure
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从而实现健康捐赠者的粪便中微生物的移植
11:07
systemic C. dif infections in some people.
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事实上已经有一些成功治愈系统性艰难梭状芽孢杆菌感染的案例
11:10
Now what these transplants, these fecal transplants, or
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这些新的移植方法，这些粪便移植
11:16
the poo tea suggest to me, and many other people
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或是粪便茶给我还有很多人以启示
11:21
have come up with this same idea, is that
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我们有了共同的想法
11:22
the microbial community in and on us, it's an organ.
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就是这些在我们体内外的微生物群落，是一个器官
11:26
We should view it as a functioning organ, part of ourselves.
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我们应该把它看成一个有功能的器官，看成人体的一部分
11:31
We should treat it carefully and with respect,
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我们应该认真对待它，尊重它
11:35
and we do not want to mess with it, say by C-sections
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我们不应该在不必要的情况下破坏它的平衡
11:39
or by antibiotics or excessive cleanliness,
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比如采用剖腹产，使用抗生素
11:44
without some real good justification.
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或过度清洁
11:47
And what the DNA sequencing technologies are allowing people to do now
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因为用DNA测序技术，人们可以做详细的研究
11:51
is do detailed studies of, say, 100 patients who have Crohn's disease
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就像比较100个克罗恩病患者
11:58
and 100 people who don't have Crohn's disease.
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和100个没有克罗恩病的人
12:00
Or 100 people who took antibiotics when they were little,
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或者比较100个在小时候服用过抗生素的人
12:04
and 100 people who did not take antibiotics.
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和100个小时候没服用过抗生素的人
12:07
And we can now start to compare the community of microbes
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我们现在可以开始比较他们的微生物群落
12:11
and their genes and see if there are differences.
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和它们的基因来看是否存在差异
12:14
And eventually we may be able to understand if they're not
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最终我们可能会弄明白，这些人群间的差异是否
12:17
just correlative differences, but causative.
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不仅仅是相关的，还有因果关系
12:20
Studies in model systems like mouse and other animals
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小鼠和其它动物实验模型系统
12:24
are also helping do this, but people are now using
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也正帮助我们研究，但人们现在使用
12:27
these technologies because they've gotten very cheap,
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DNA测序技术是因为成本已经很低
12:29
to study the microbes in and on a variety of people.
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如果要研究不同人体内外的微生物的话
12:33
So, in wrapping up, what I want to tell you about is,
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所以，总的来说，我想告诉你们的是
12:38
I didn't tell you a part of the story of coming down with diabetes.
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我并没有告诉你们我患糖尿病的故事
12:41
It turns out that my father was an M.D.,
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实际上我父亲是个医生
12:44
actually studied hormones. I told him many times
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他研究内分泌激素。很多次我和他说
12:48
that I was tired, thirsty, not feeling very good.
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我又累，又渴，感觉不舒服
12:53
And he shrugged it off, I think he either thought
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他耸耸肩，我想，他要么认为
12:56
I was just complaining a lot, or it was the typical
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我只是爱抱怨，要么
12:59
M.D. "nothing can be wrong with my children."
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是一个医生认为“我家的小孩不会生病”的心态
13:02
We even went to the International Society of Endocrinology
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我们甚至举家前往魁北克
13:05
meeting as family in Quebec.
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参加国际内分泌学学会
13:07
And I was getting up every five minutes to pee,
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我每五分钟就要起来尿尿
13:12
and drinking everybody's water at the table,
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吃饭时要喝完每个人的水
13:15
and I think they all thought I was a druggie.
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我想，他们可能都认为我嗑药了
13:18
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
13:20
But the reason I'm telling you this is that
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但我和你们说这个故事的原因是
13:22
the medical community, my father as an example,
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在医学界，以我的父亲为例
13:25
sometimes doesn't see what's right in front of their eyes.
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有时候看不到眼前发生的事
13:28
The microbial cloud, it is right in front of us.
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这层微生物云，就在我们眼前
13:32
We can't see it most of the time. It's invisible.
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很多时候我们看不到它。它是隐形的
13:35
They're microbes. They're tiny.
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它们是微生物，微小的生物。
13:36
But we can see them through their DNA,
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但是我们可以通过它们的DNA看到它们
13:39
we can see them through the effects that they have on people.
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我们可以通过它们对人类的影响看到它们
13:43
And what we need now
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我们现在需要做的是
13:44
is to start thinking about this microbial community in the context
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开始思考在人类医学每个方面
13:48
of everything in human medicine.
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微生物群落的作用
13:50
It doesn't mean that it affects every part of us,
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这并不意味着它会影响我们的每一部分
13:53
but it might.
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但是有这个可能性
13:55
What we need is a full field guide to the microbes
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我们需要一份人类体内和表面的微生物的实地指南
13:59
that live in and on people, so that we can understand
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这样我们才能了解
14:02
what they're doing to our lives.
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它们对我们生活的影响
14:05
We are them. They are us.
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我们就是它们。它们就是我们
14:08
Thank you.
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谢谢
14:10
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jonathan Eisen - BiologistJonathan Eisen studies the ecology and evolution of microbial communities -- and their co-evolution with their hosts.
Why you should listen
Research in Jonathan Eisen's lab focuses on the “phylogenomics of novelty” in microbes. Among their major research themes are:
• the genomic basis for the origin and evolution of new functions
• the ecology and evolution of microbial communities
• the co-evolution of microbes and their carrying vessels (i.e., hosts)
• variation in “evolvability”
• the development of phylogeny driven computational tools to analyze genomic and metagenomic sequence data.
Eisen is also a strong proponent of the Open Access movement in scientific publishing and is Academic Editor in Chief of PLoS Biology. Dr. Eisen is also an active and award-winning science blogger on The Tree of Life. For recent news see @phylogenomics.
Jonathan Eisen | Speaker | TED.com