TED2017
Greg Gage: Electrical experiments with plants that count and communicate
格雷格▪盖奇: 研究植物计算与交流能力的电学实验
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神经学家格雷格▪盖奇采用先进设备进行大脑研究，并将之带到初高中的课堂上（有时, 是TED讲台）。他将含羞草（一种叶片被碰触后可以收缩的植物）和捕蝇草连接到记录仪，向我们展示了植物是如何通过电信号来传递信息，快速移动甚至计数，准备好大吃一惊吧！
Greg Gage - Neuroscientist
TED Fellow Greg Gage helps kids investigate the neuroscience in their own backyards. Full bio
TED Fellow Greg Gage helps kids investigate the neuroscience in their own backyards. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'm a neuroscientist,
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我是位神经学家，
00:14
and I'm the co-founder of Backyard Brains,
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Backyard Brains的联合创始人，
00:16
and our mission is to train
the next generation of neuroscientists
the next generation of neuroscientists
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我们的使命是
培养下一代的神经学家，
培养下一代的神经学家，
00:20
by taking graduate-level
neuroscience research equipment
neuroscience research equipment
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通过将研究生运用的研究设备
00:23
and making it available for kids
in middle schools and high schools.
in middle schools and high schools.
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融入到初高中课程中。
00:27
And so when we go into the classroom,
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开始上课的时候，
00:29
one way to get them thinking
about the brain, which is very complex,
about the brain, which is very complex,
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我们让他们开始思考关于大脑，
这个十分复杂的物体的一个方法，
这个十分复杂的物体的一个方法，
00:33
is to ask them a very simple
question about neuroscience,
question about neuroscience,
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就是向他们提出一个非常简单的
关于神经科学的问题，
关于神经科学的问题，
00:36
and that is, "What has a brain?"
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“什么东西具有大脑“？
00:39
When we ask that,
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当我们提问的时候，
00:40
students will instantly tell you
that their cat or dog has a brain,
that their cat or dog has a brain,
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学生们会马上告诉你
他们的猫或狗有大脑，
他们的猫或狗有大脑，
大多数学生会说一只老鼠
甚至一只小昆虫有大脑，
甚至一只小昆虫有大脑，
00:44
and most will say that a mouse
or even a small insect has a brain,
or even a small insect has a brain,
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但几乎没人会说一棵植物或者树，
00:49
but almost nobody says
that a plant or a tree
that a plant or a tree
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或者一株灌木有大脑。
00:51
or a shrub has a brain.
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所以当你进一步启发他们——
00:54
And so when you push --
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00:56
because this could actually
help describe a little bit
help describe a little bit
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因为这实际上可以帮助描述
大脑是如何运作的——
00:59
how the brain actually functions --
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所以当你继续问
01:01
so you push and say,
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“是什么让有些生物拥有大脑，
而有些则没有？”
而有些则没有？”
01:02
"Well, what is it that makes
living things have brains versus not?"
living things have brains versus not?"
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他们往往会分类作答，
01:06
And often they'll come back
with the classification
with the classification
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那就是移动的物体拥有大脑。
01:08
that things that move tend to have brains.
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这绝对是正确的。
01:12
And that's absolutely correct.
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我们的神经系统因电流而进化。
01:14
Our nervous system evolved
because it is electrical.
because it is electrical.
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01:16
It's fast, so we can quickly respond
to stimuli in the world
to stimuli in the world
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它们速度很快，
在我们需要的情况下
在我们需要的情况下
使我们能快速对
外界刺激做出反应。
外界刺激做出反应。
01:19
and move if we need to.
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01:21
But you can go back
and push back on a student,
and push back on a student,
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但是你可以引导学生逆向思维，
01:24
and say, "Well, you know,
you say that plants don't have brains,
you say that plants don't have brains,
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“很好，你说植物没有大脑，”
01:27
but plants do move."
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“但它们可以移动啊。”
任何养过植物的人
01:28
Anyone who has grown a plant
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都会注意到植物可以移动，
01:30
has noticed that the plant will move
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01:32
and face the sun.
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并且趋光。
但他们会说，
“这是一个缓慢的过程。”
“这是一个缓慢的过程。”
01:34
But they'll say,
"But that's a slow movement.
"But that's a slow movement.
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01:36
You know, that doesn't count.
That could be a chemical process."
That could be a chemical process."
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“这不算，那可能是一种化学过程。”
但如果是快速运动的植物呢？
01:39
But what about fast-moving plants?
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在1760年，北卡罗莱纳州的
皇家总督亚瑟▪多布斯
皇家总督亚瑟▪多布斯
01:42
Now, in 1760, Arthur Dobbs,
the Royal Governor of North Carolina,
the Royal Governor of North Carolina,
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01:47
made a pretty fascinating discovery.
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发现一个很有趣的现象。
01:49
In the swamps behind his house,
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在他房子后面的沼泽地，
生长着一种植物，每当有虫子落在
01:52
he found a plant that would spring shut
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它们的叶片之间，叶片就会闭合。
01:56
every time a bug would fall in between it.
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01:59
He called this plant the flytrap,
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他称之为捕蝇草。
02:02
and within a decade,
it made its way over to Europe,
it made its way over to Europe,
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十年内，捕蝇草已经到了欧洲，
02:05
where eventually the great Charles Darwin
got to study this plant,
got to study this plant,
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伟大的查尔斯▪达尔文
开始研究这种植物，
开始研究这种植物，
捕蝇草让他十分着迷。
02:09
and this plant absolutely blew him away.
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02:11
He called it the most wonderful
plant in the world.
plant in the world.
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达尔文称之为世界上最奇妙的植物。
这是一种进化奇迹。
02:13
This is a plant
that was an evolutionary wonder.
that was an evolutionary wonder.
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02:16
This is a plant that moves quickly,
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植物可以快速运动，
非常罕见。
02:18
which is rare,
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02:19
and it's carnivorous, which is also rare.
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而且捕蝇草是
肉食性植物，同样罕见。
肉食性植物，同样罕见。
两种特征合二为一。
02:21
And this is in the same plant.
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但是，今天在这里我要告诉你
02:22
But I'm here today to tell you
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02:24
that's not even the coolest thing
about this plant.
about this plant.
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这并不是捕蝇草最奇特的地方。
最奇特的是这种植物有计算能力。
02:26
The coolest thing
is that the plant can count.
is that the plant can count.
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02:30
So in order to show that,
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为了证明这一点，
02:31
we have to get some vocabulary
out of the way.
out of the way.
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我们需要认识一些词汇。
02:34
So I'm going to do what we do
in the classroom with students.
in the classroom with students.
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今天我要在这里做一项
和学生们在教室里一起做的实验。
和学生们在教室里一起做的实验。
02:37
We're going to do
an experiment on electrophysiology,
an experiment on electrophysiology,
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我们今天要做一个
关于电生理现象的实验，
关于电生理现象的实验，
就是记录身体中
02:41
which is the recording
of the body's electrical signal,
of the body's electrical signal,
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来自神经元或肌肉的电信号。
02:44
either coming from neurons
or from muscles.
or from muscles.
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我在手腕上贴上电极。
02:46
And I'm putting some electrodes
here on my wrists.
here on my wrists.
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当我连接上之后，
02:49
As I hook them up,
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我们可以看到有信号
02:50
we're going to be able to see a signal
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显示在记录仪屏幕上。
02:52
on the screen here.
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这种图案你可能很熟悉。
02:54
And this signal may be familiar to you.
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就是所谓的心电图。
02:56
It's called the EKG,
or the electrocardiogram.
or the electrocardiogram.
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02:58
And this is coming
from neurons in my heart
from neurons in my heart
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来自我心脏的神经元，
正在发射所谓的动作电位，
03:00
that are firing
what's called action potentials,
what's called action potentials,
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电位即电压，动作即意味着
它能快速上下运动，
它能快速上下运动，
03:03
potential meaning voltage and action
meaning it moves quickly up and down,
meaning it moves quickly up and down,
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使我的心脏跳动，
03:07
which causes my heart to fire,
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然后你就能在这儿看到电信号。
03:08
which then causes
the signal that you see here.
the signal that you see here.
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现在，你要记住你所看到的
仪器上显示的信号形状，
仪器上显示的信号形状，
03:11
And so I want you to remember the shape
of what we'll be looking at right here,
of what we'll be looking at right here,
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这是非常重要的一步。
03:15
because this is going to be important.
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这是大脑以动作电位
03:17
This is a way that the brain
encodes information
encodes information
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编码信息的一种方式。
03:19
in the form of an action potential.
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现在，我们来关注一些植物。
03:21
So now let's turn to some plants.
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03:24
So I'm going to first
introduce you to the mimosa,
introduce you to the mimosa,
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第一步，我将向你介绍含羞草，
不是那种饮料，是含羞草植物，
03:28
not the drink, but the Mimosa pudica,
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这种植物发现于
美州中部和南部地区，
美州中部和南部地区，
03:31
and this is a plant that's found
in Central America and South America,
in Central America and South America,
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这种植物具有行为。
03:35
and it has behaviors.
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03:37
And the first behavior
I'm going to show you
I'm going to show you
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我将向你展示
含羞草的第一种行为，
含羞草的第一种行为，
碰到它这里的叶片，
03:39
is if I touch the leaves here,
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你会看到叶子蜷起来了。
03:41
you get to see that the leaves
tend to curl up.
tend to curl up.
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03:45
And then the second behavior is,
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第二种行为是，
如果我轻点叶子，
03:47
if I tap the leaf,
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整个枝条似乎都垂下了。
03:49
the entire branch seems to fall down.
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问题来了，含羞草
为什么要这样呢？
为什么要这样呢？
03:51
So why does it do that?
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这在科学上仍然未知。
03:53
It's not really known to science.
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其中原因之一
可能是为了吓跑昆虫，
可能是为了吓跑昆虫，
03:54
One of the reasons why
could be that it scares away insects
could be that it scares away insects
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或者看起来不太吸引食草动物。
03:58
or it looks less appealing to herbivores.
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但它是怎么做到的呢？
这就非常有趣了。
这就非常有趣了。
04:00
But how does it do that?
Now, that's interesting.
Now, that's interesting.
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我们可以做个实验了解一下。
04:02
We can do an experiment to find out.
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我们要做的是，
04:04
So what we're going to do now,
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就像我记录我身体的电流一样，
04:06
just like I recorded
the electrical potential from my body,
the electrical potential from my body,
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我们将记录含羞草的电流数据。
04:09
we're going to record the electrical
potential from this plant, this mimosa.
potential from this plant, this mimosa.
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我们要用一根电线
缠绕在含羞草的茎上，
缠绕在含羞草的茎上，
04:13
And so what we're going to do
is I've got a wire wrapped around the stem,
is I've got a wire wrapped around the stem,
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我把接地线放哪了？
04:19
and I've got the ground electrode where?
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04:22
In the ground. It's an electrical
engineering joke. Alright.
engineering joke. Alright.
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在地上呢，这是个电气工程玩笑。
（笑声）
04:25
(Laughter)
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好了，接下来
我要继续轻点叶子了，
我要继续轻点叶子了，
04:26
Alright. So I'm going to go ahead
and tap the leaf here,
and tap the leaf here,
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你将会看到在植物内部
04:29
and I want you to look
at the electrical recording
at the electrical recording
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记录下的电子数据。
04:31
that we're going to see inside the plant.
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04:34
Whoa. It is so big,
I've got to scale it down.
I've got to scale it down.
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哇，波动很强烈，让我把
整个信号调整到屏幕以内。
整个信号调整到屏幕以内。
好了，那是什么呢？
04:37
Alright. So what is that?
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那是植物内部发生的一种动作电位。
04:38
That is an action potential
that is happening inside the plant.
that is happening inside the plant.
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为什么会发生这样的情况呢？
04:41
Why was it happening?
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因为它（含羞草）想要移动，对吗？
04:43
Because it wanted to move. Right?
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所以当我碰到传感器（枝叶）的时候，
04:44
And so when I hit the touch receptors,
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它将电流传送到枝叶末端，
04:47
it sent a voltage all the way down
to the end of the stem,
to the end of the stem,
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这就导致它垂落枝条。
04:51
which caused it to move.
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我们可以让手臂上的
肌肉动起来，
肌肉动起来，
04:52
And now, in our arms,
we would move our muscles,
we would move our muscles,
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但植物并没有肌肉。
04:54
but the plant doesn't have muscles.
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植物的细胞内充满液体，
04:56
What it has is water inside the cells
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当电流传导时，细胞打开，释放液体，
04:58
and when the voltage hits it,
it opens up, releases the water,
it opens up, releases the water,
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并改变细胞的形态，然后枝叶垂落。
05:01
changes the shape of the cells,
and the leaf falls.
and the leaf falls.
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05:04
OK. So here we see an action potential
encoding information to move. Alright?
encoding information to move. Alright?
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好的，我们看到了动作电位
通过编码信息来运动。
通过编码信息来运动。
但是，植物可以做更多的事情吗？
05:09
But can it do more?
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我们再来深入了解一下。
05:10
So let's go to find out.
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现在请出我们的好朋友，
维纳斯捕蝇草，
维纳斯捕蝇草，
05:12
We're going to go to our good friend,
the Venus flytrap here,
the Venus flytrap here,
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当苍蝇落在叶子中间，
05:15
and we're going to take a look
at what happens inside the leaf
at what happens inside the leaf
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我们来观察会发生什么。
05:19
when a fly lands on here.
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现在我要假装是一只苍蝇。
05:21
So I'm going to pretend
to be a fly right now.
to be a fly right now.
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这是维纳斯捕蝇草，
05:24
And now here's my Venus flytrap,
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在叶片内侧，你会注意到
05:26
and inside the leaf,
you're going to notice
you're going to notice
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有三根毛发，这是它的触发毛。
05:28
that there are three little hairs here,
and those are trigger hairs.
and those are trigger hairs.
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所以当苍蝇降落的时候——
05:31
And so when a fly lands --
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我要触碰触发毛了。
05:32
I'm going to touch
one of the hairs right now.
one of the hairs right now.
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准备好了吗？1,2,3。
05:35
Ready? One, two, three.
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05:39
What do we get? We get
a beautiful action potential.
a beautiful action potential.
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看，我们得到了一条优美的
动作电位图。
动作电位图。
然而，捕蝇草叶片并没有闭合。
05:41
However, the flytrap doesn't close.
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05:44
And to understand why that is,
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为了了解为什么会这样，
我们需要了解一些捕蝇草的行为。
05:46
we need to know a little bit more
about the behavior of the flytrap.
about the behavior of the flytrap.
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第一条，它需要很长时间
来打开陷阱（叶片）——
来打开陷阱（叶片）——
05:49
Number one is that it takes
a long time to open the traps back up --
a long time to open the traps back up --
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05:52
you know, about 24 to 48 hours
if there's no fly inside of it.
if there's no fly inside of it.
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如果没有苍蝇在里面，
大概需要24到48小时。
大概需要24到48小时。
所以需要大量的能量。
05:56
And so it takes a lot of energy.
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第二条，它全年
不需要吃太多苍蝇。
不需要吃太多苍蝇。
05:58
And two, it doesn't need to eat
that many flies throughout the year.
that many flies throughout the year.
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几只就够了，它通过
阳光来摄取大部分的能量。
阳光来摄取大部分的能量。
06:01
Only a handful. It gets
most of its energy from the sun.
most of its energy from the sun.
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它只是想用苍蝇替代一些
从地下获得的养分。
从地下获得的养分。
06:04
It's just trying to replace
some nutrients in the ground with flies.
some nutrients in the ground with flies.
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第三条，
06:07
And the third thing is,
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直到叶片枯萎，
06:09
it only opens then closes the traps
a handful of times
a handful of times
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06:12
until that trap dies.
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陷阱只能开合几次。
06:14
So therefore, it wants
to make really darn sure
to make really darn sure
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因此，它要确保捕虫叶闭合前，
里面一定有顿美餐。
06:16
that there's a meal inside of it
before the flytrap snaps shut.
before the flytrap snaps shut.
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所以，它怎么做到的呢？
06:21
So how does it do that?
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06:23
It counts the number of seconds
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捕蝇草是通过
计算连续触碰触发毛的秒数。
06:25
between successive
touching of those hairs.
touching of those hairs.
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所以，我们的想法是
有一个高的概率，
有一个高的概率，
06:29
And so the idea is
that there's a high probability,
that there's a high probability,
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如果里面有只苍蝇，可以视为触碰，
06:31
if there's a fly inside of there,
that it's going to be clicked together,
that it's going to be clicked together,
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当捕蝇草接收第一次的信号时，
06:35
and so when it gets the first
action potential,
action potential,
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开始计数，1，2，
06:37
it starts counting, one, two,
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如果计数到20又没有中断，
06:38
and if it gets to 20
and it doesn't fire again,
and it doesn't fire again,
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它不会闭合捕虫叶，
06:41
then it's not going to close,
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但如果苍蝇依然在里面，
陷阱就闭合了。
陷阱就闭合了。
06:42
but if it does it within there,
then the flytrap will close.
then the flytrap will close.
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我们继续实验。
06:45
So we're going to go back now.
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我将再次触碰维纳斯捕蝇草。
06:46
I'm going to touch
the Venus flytrap again.
the Venus flytrap again.
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我已经说了超过20秒话了。
06:48
I've been talking
for more than 20 seconds.
for more than 20 seconds.
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让我们来看看再次
碰到触发毛会发生什么。
碰到触发毛会发生什么。
06:50
So we can see what happens
when I touch the hair a second time.
when I touch the hair a second time.
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06:55
So what do we get?
We get a second action potential,
We get a second action potential,
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我们得到了什么？
第二次动作电位，
第二次动作电位，
但是，捕虫叶仍然没有闭合。
06:58
but again, the leaf doesn't close.
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现在，我再回到那里，
07:00
So now if I go back in there
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假装我是一只苍蝇到处移动，
07:02
and if I'm a fly moving around,
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我将触碰叶片几次。
07:04
I'm going to be touching
the leaf a few times.
the leaf a few times.
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刷几下。
07:06
I'm going to go and brush it a few times.
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捕蝇草
07:08
And immediately,
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立刻闭合了。
07:10
the flytrap closes.
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我们看到捕蝇草实际上是在计算。
07:11
So here we are seeing the flytrap
actually doing a computation.
actually doing a computation.
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这取决于苍蝇是否在陷阱里，
07:16
It's determining
if there's a fly inside the trap,
if there's a fly inside the trap,
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然后就闭合了。
07:18
and then it closes.
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那么，让我们回到最初的问题上。
07:20
So let's go back to our original question.
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07:23
Do plants have brains?
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植物有大脑吗？
答案是否定的。
07:25
Well, the answer is no.
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植物并没有大脑。
07:27
There's no brains in here.
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没有轴突，没有神经元。
07:28
There's no axons, no neurons.
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它不会郁郁寡欢。
07:32
It doesn't get depressed.
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不会考虑底特律
老虎队的得分是多少。
老虎队的得分是多少。
07:33
It doesn't want to know
what the Tigers' score is.
what the Tigers' score is.
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没有自我实现的问题。
07:36
It doesn't have
self-actualization problems.
self-actualization problems.
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但它们的行为与我们如此相似，
07:38
But what it does have
is something that's very similar to us,
is something that's very similar to us,
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是使用生物电交流的能力。
07:41
which is the ability
to communicate using electricity.
to communicate using electricity.
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它仅是使用了
与我们稍微不用的离子，
与我们稍微不用的离子，
07:44
It just uses slightly
different ions than we do,
different ions than we do,
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但实际上做的是同样的事情。
07:47
but it's actually doing the same thing.
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这个实验是为了展示，
07:49
So just to show you
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动作电位的自然普遍性，
07:51
the ubiquitous nature
of these action potentials,
of these action potentials,
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我们能在维纳斯捕蝇草上看到，
07:54
we saw it in the Venus flytrap,
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在含羞草上看到，
07:56
we've seen an action
potential in the mimosa.
potential in the mimosa.
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在人类身上也能看到。
07:59
We've even seen
an action potential in a human.
an action potential in a human.
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这就是大脑的神经。
08:01
Now, this is the euro of the brain.
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所有信息的传递方式。
08:04
It's the way that all
information is passed.
information is passed.
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所以我们能做的就是
利用这些动作电位
利用这些动作电位
08:06
And so what we can do
is we can use those action potentials
is we can use those action potentials
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08:09
to pass information
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在不同种类的植物间
传递信息。
08:11
between species of plants.
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所以，这就是植物与植物间的交流，
08:13
And so this is our interspecies
plant-to-plant communicator,
plant-to-plant communicator,
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我们所做的是创造出了
一种全新的实验，
一种全新的实验，
08:17
and what we've done
is we've created a brand new experiment
is we've created a brand new experiment
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从维纳斯捕蝇草中记录动作电位，
08:20
where we're going to record
the action potential from a Venus flytrap,
the action potential from a Venus flytrap,
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然后传送到敏感的含羞草中。
08:24
and we're going to send it
into the sensitive mimosa.
into the sensitive mimosa.
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所以，我想要你回想一下，
08:27
So I want you to recall what happens
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当我们触碰含羞草叶片的
时候发生了什么。
时候发生了什么。
08:28
when we touch the leaves of the mimosa.
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它拥有以动作电位的形式
08:30
It has touch receptors
that are sending that information
that are sending that information
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传递信息的传感器。
08:33
back down in the form
of an action potential.
of an action potential.
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所以，如果我们
08:35
And so what would happen
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从维纳斯捕蝇草中捕捉到
电动电位，并将之发送到
电动电位，并将之发送到
08:36
if we took the action potential
from the Venus flytrap
from the Venus flytrap
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含羞草的所有茎叶中，会发生什么？
08:40
and sent it into
all the stems of the mimosa?
all the stems of the mimosa?
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08:44
We should be able to create
the behavior of the mimosas
the behavior of the mimosas
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我们应该可以引发
含羞草的收缩行为，
含羞草的收缩行为，
而不需要亲自触碰。
08:47
without actually touching it ourselves.
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所以，让我来展示，
08:49
And so if you'll allow me,
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我将继续通过触碰
捕蝇草的触发毛来
捕蝇草的触发毛来
08:51
I'm going to go ahead
and trigger this mimosa right now
and trigger this mimosa right now
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触发含羞草的收缩行为。
08:54
by touching on the hairs
of the Venus flytrap.
of the Venus flytrap.
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我们要将触碰信息
从一株植物传递到另一株植物上。
从一株植物传递到另一株植物上。
08:58
So we're going to send information
about touch from one plant to another.
about touch from one plant to another.
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09:06
So there you see it.
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看到（含羞草枝叶收缩）了吧。
那么——
09:08
So --
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（掌声）
09:09
(Applause)
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希望你今天能学到
一些关于植物的知识，
一些关于植物的知识，
09:15
So I hope you learned a little bit,
something about plants today,
something about plants today,
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而且不仅仅如此。
09:18
and not only that.
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你了解到植物可以
用来帮助神经教学，
用来帮助神经教学，
09:19
You learned that plants could be used
to help teach neuroscience
to help teach neuroscience
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并带来神经学革命。
09:23
and bring along the neurorevolution.
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谢谢。
09:24
Thank you.
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（掌声）
09:26
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Greg Gage - NeuroscientistTED Fellow Greg Gage helps kids investigate the neuroscience in their own backyards.
Why you should listen
As half of Backyard Brains, neuroscientist and engineer Greg Gage builds the SpikerBox -- a small rig that helps kids understand the electrical impulses that control the nervous system. He's passionate about helping students understand (viscerally) how our brains and our neurons work, because, as he said onstage at TED2012, we still know very little about how the brain works -- and we need to start inspiring kids early to want to know more.
Before becoming a neuroscientist, Gage worked as an electrical engineer making touchscreens. As he told the Huffington Post: "Scientific equipment in general is pretty expensive, but it's silly because before [getting my PhD in neuroscience] I was an electrical engineer, and you could see that you could make it yourself. So we started as a way to have fun, to show off to our colleagues, but we were also going into classrooms around that time and we thought, wouldn't it be cool if you could bring these gadgets with us so the stuff we were doing in advanced Ph.D. programs in neuroscience, you could also do in fifth grade?" His latest pieces of gear: the Roboroach, a cockroach fitted with an electric backpack that makes it turn on command, and BYB SmartScope, a smartphone-powered microscope.
Greg Gage | Speaker | TED.com