ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Barber - Chef
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat.

Why you should listen

Dan Barber is the chef at New York's Blue Hill restaurant, and Blue Hill at Stone Barns in Westchester, where he practices a kind of close-to-the-land cooking married to agriculture and stewardship of the earth. As described on Chez Pim: "Stone Barns is only 45 minutes from Manhattan, but it might as well be a whole different universe. A model of self-sufficiency and environmental responsibility, Stone Barns is a working farm, ranch, and a three-Michelin-star-worthy restaurant." It's a vision of a new kind of food chain.

Barber's philosophy of food focuses on pleasure and thoughtful conservation -- on knowing where the food on your plate comes from and the unseen forces that drive what we eat. He's written on US agricultural policies, asking for a new vision that does not throw the food chain out of balance by subsidizing certain crops at the expense of more appropriate ones.

In 2009, Barber received the James Beard award for America's Outstanding Chef, and was named one of the world's most influential people in Time’s annual "Time 100" list. In 2014 he published The Third Plate: Field Notes on the Future of Food.

More profile about the speaker
Dan Barber | Speaker | TED.com
TED2010

Dan Barber: How I fell in love with a fish

丹鮑伯:愛上一條魚

Filmed:
2,315,470 views

主廚丹鮑伯指出,現今很多廚師都面臨了一個難題:如何持續供應魚類餐點?在深入的調查後,他以幽默的方式,講述了他尋找到一條他所喜愛的「可持續提供」的魚的故事。而自從他發現在西班牙,有一種極為美味的魚,以創新的方法養殖成功,他這個美食家又開始享受了美味之戀。
- Chef
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:16
So, I've known已知 a lot of fish in my life.
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我一生中接觸過很多魚,
00:20
I've loved喜愛 only two.
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只有兩種是我的最愛。
00:23
That first one,
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第一種,
00:25
it was more like a passionate多情 affair事務.
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是一種熱烈的情感,
00:28
It was a beautiful美麗 fish:
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那條美麗的魚,
00:30
flavorful美味, textured紋理, meaty肉香,
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美味、紋理、肉質都是一等,
00:33
a bestseller暢銷書 on the menu菜單.
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是菜單上最暢銷的菜,
00:35
What a fish.
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多麼棒的魚呀!
00:37
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
00:40
Even better,
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更好的是,
00:42
it was farm-raised人工養殖 to the supposed應該 highest最高 standards標準
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它是由人工養殖場,所培育出可持續提供的
00:45
of sustainability可持續性.
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最高標準的魚,
00:48
So you could feel good about selling銷售 it.
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賣牠的人也會感到安心。
00:52
I was in a relationship關係 with this beauty美女
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我曾經沉醉於這美麗的關係中,
00:54
for several一些 months個月.
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大概維持了幾個月。
00:58
One day, the head of the company公司 called
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有一天,這個公司的高層打電話給我,
01:00
and asked if I'd speak說話 at an event事件
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希望我能針對這個養殖場持續提供漁源,
01:02
about the farm's農場 sustainability可持續性.
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發表一場演說。
01:04
"Absolutely絕對," I said.
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我說:「當然可以。」
01:06
Here was a company公司 trying to solve解決
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這個公司正是要試圖解決一個
01:09
what's become成為 this unimaginable不可思議 problem問題 for us chefs廚師:
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對我們廚師來說,無法想像的問題:
01:13
How do we keep fish on our menus菜單?
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如何持續供應魚類餐點?
01:17
For the past過去 50 years年份,
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在過去的50年中,
01:20
we've我們已經 been fishing釣魚 the seas海域
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我們從各個海洋中捕魚,
01:22
like we clear-cut明確 forests森林.
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就像是砍伐樹木,
01:25
It's hard to overstate誇大 the destruction毀壞.
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我絕不是誇大它的破壞性。
01:30
Ninety九十 percent百分 of large fish, the ones那些 we love --
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但我們喜愛的大型魚類裡,有90%的
01:33
the tunas金槍魚, the halibuts, the salmons鮭魚, swordfish旗魚 --
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鮪魚,大比目魚,鮭魚,劍魚等,
01:36
they've他們已經 collapsed倒塌.
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他們的生態遭受重創,
01:38
There's almost幾乎 nothing left.
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幾乎沒有剩下多少了。
01:41
So, for better or for worse更差,
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所以,不管是好是壞,
01:44
aquaculture水產養殖, fish farming農業, is going to be a part部分 of our future未來.
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水產養殖業、人工漁場,都會成為我們未來的一部分。
01:47
A lot of arguments參數 against反對 it:
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有很多針對這個行業的爭論,
01:49
Fish farms農場 pollute污染 -- most of them do anyway無論如何 --
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因為大部分養殖漁場都會污染環境,
01:52
and they're inefficient低效. Take tuna金槍魚,
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而且效率很低。以鮪魚為例,
01:54
a major重大的 drawback退稅.
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最主要的弊病是,
01:56
It's got a feed飼料 conversion轉變 ratio
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養殖鮪魚的飼料轉換率
01:58
of 15 to one.
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是15比1,
02:00
That means手段 it takes fifteen十五 pounds英鎊 of wild野生 fish
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意思是,你要用15磅的野生魚類當飼料,
02:02
to get you one pound of farm農場 tuna金槍魚.
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才能養出1磅的養殖鮪魚。
02:06
Not very sustainable可持續發展.
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漁場不容易經營,
02:08
It doesn't taste味道 very good either.
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魚也不好吃。
02:11
So here, finally最後,
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最後,
02:13
was a company公司 trying to do it right.
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終於有一家公司想好好做事了,
02:15
I wanted to support支持 them.
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我也想支持他們。
02:18
The day before the event事件,
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就在那次活動的前一天,
02:20
I called the head of P.R. for the company公司.
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我聯繫了公司的公關部門負責人,
02:23
Let's call him Don.
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就讓我們暫且稱呼他為“唐”吧...
02:27
"Don," I said, "just to get the facts事實 straight直行, you guys are famous著名
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我說:“唐閣下,是這樣的,你們的人工養殖漁場
02:30
for farming農業 so far out to sea, you don't pollute污染."
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最有名之處就是設置在遠洋,而且不會產生污染。"
02:33
"That's right," he said. "We're so far out,
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他回應:“你說的對。我們作業的地點很遠,
02:36
the waste浪費 from our fish gets得到 distributed分散式,
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我們漁場所產生的污染物都被稀釋掉了,
02:39
not concentrated集中."
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不會集中殘留在一個地方。"
02:41
And then he added添加,
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然後他補充,
02:43
"We're basically基本上 a world世界 unto ourselves我們自己.
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“那是我們自己的漁場,
02:47
That feed飼料 conversion轉變 ratio? 2.5 to one," he said.
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飼料轉換率?2.5比1,” 他說。
02:50
"Best最好 in the business商業."
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“業界中最好的。”
02:52
2.5 to one, great.
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2.5比 1,很好
02:54
"2.5 what? What are you feeding饋送?"
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“2.5比什麼呢?你們餵什麼?”
02:56
"Sustainable可持續發展 proteins蛋白質," he said.
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他回答道: “可持續性蛋白質。”
02:59
"Great," I said. Got off the phone電話.
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“很好。”然後我們掛了電話。
03:02
And that night, I was lying說謊 in bed, and I thought:
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結果那晚, 我躺在床上想:
03:05
What the hell地獄 is a sustainable可持續發展 protein蛋白?
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可持續性蛋白質是什麼鬼東西呀?
03:07
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
03:12
So the next下一個 day, just before the event事件, I called Don.
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所以第二天,就在那個活動之前,我打電話給唐,
03:14
I said, "Don, what are some examples例子 of sustainable可持續發展 proteins蛋白質?"
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我問道:"唐閣下,可持續性蛋白質大概是什麼東西啊?"
03:18
He said he didn't know. He would ask around.
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他說他不知道,他會去問問周圍的人。
03:21
Well, I got on the phone電話 with a few少數 people in the company公司;
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然後,我和這個公司裡的一些人通了電話,
03:23
no one could give me a straight直行 answer回答
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但是沒有人能給我一個明確的答案。
03:26
until直到 finally最後, I got on the phone電話
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直到最後, 我和他們的首席生物學家
03:29
with the head biologist生物學家.
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通上了電話。
03:31
Let's call him Don too.
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讓我也暫且叫他“唐"...
03:33
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
03:37
"Don," I said,
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我說:"唐,"
03:39
"what are some examples例子 of sustainable可持續發展 proteins蛋白質?"
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你能否舉例說明一下,可持續性蛋白質是些什麼東西嗎?"
03:42
Well, he mentioned提到 some algaes海藻
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然後,他提到一些藻類,
03:44
and some fish meals,
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還有一些魚肉,
03:46
and then he said chicken pellets小球.
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然後他提到雞肉丸,
03:48
I said, "Chicken pellets小球?"
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我說:“雞肉丸?“
03:50
He said, "Yeah, feathers羽毛, skin皮膚,
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他說:「是的,羽毛、雞皮、
03:52
bone meal膳食, scraps下腳料,
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骨頭、剩料等,
03:54
dried and processed處理 into feed飼料."
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被曬乾加工後做成飼料。”
03:57
I said, "What percentage百分比
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我說:“雞在你們的飼料中
03:59
of your feed飼料 is chicken?"
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所占的比例是多少?”
04:02
Thinking思維, you know, two percent百分.
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你知道,我心裡想大概是2%吧。
04:05
"Well, it's about 30 percent百分," he said.
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結果他說:“嗯,大概佔30%,”
04:08
I said, "Don, what's sustainable可持續發展
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我說,“唐閣下,用雞餵魚,
04:11
about feeding饋送 chicken to fish?"
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這算什麼可持續性?”
04:13
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
04:18
There was a long pause暫停 on the line,
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電話的那邊安靜了很長時間,
04:21
and he said, "There's just too much chicken in the world世界."
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然後他說,“世界上的雞真的太多了。”
04:24
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
04:30
I fell下跌 out of love with this fish.
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於是,我不再愛這魚了。
04:32
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
04:34
No, not because I'm some self-righteous自以為是,
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不,不是因為我是個自以為正直的
04:37
goody-two偽善兩 shoes foodie美食家.
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偽善美食家,
04:39
I actually其實 am.
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其實我是這樣的人沒錯。
04:41
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
04:43
No, I actually其實 fell下跌 out of love with this fish because, I swear發誓 to God,
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不,我不再愛這個魚了,是因為,我向上帝發誓,
04:45
after that conversation會話, the fish tasted like chicken.
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在那次對話之後,那個魚嚐起來有雞的味道。
04:48
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
04:58
This second第二 fish,
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這第二條魚,
05:01
it's a different不同 kind of love story故事.
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它是另一種不同的愛情故事,
05:04
It's the romantic浪漫 kind,
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是很浪漫的那種,
05:07
the kind where the more you get to know your fish,
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你愈了解那種魚,
05:10
you love the fish.
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你就會愈愛牠。
05:13
I first ate it at a restaurant餐廳
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我第一次是在西班牙南部的一個餐廳,
05:15
in southern南部的 Spain西班牙.
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吃到這種魚。
05:17
A journalist記者 friend朋友 had been talking about this fish for a long time.
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有一個記者朋友已經和我提到這種魚很多次了,
05:20
She kind of set us up.
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她可以說是媒人。
05:22
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
05:24
It came來了 to the table
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一條白色、
05:26
a bright, almost幾乎 shimmering閃閃發光的, white白色 color顏色.
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鮮亮透光的魚被端上桌來,
05:31
The chef廚師 had overcooked過頭 it.
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廚師煮得太熟了,
05:34
Like twice兩次 over.
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熟過頭二倍之多,
05:37
Amazingly令人驚訝的是, it was still delicious美味的.
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但神奇的是,它還是很好吃。
05:40
Who can make a fish taste味道 good
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誰可以做出這樣好吃的魚,
05:44
after it's been overcooked過頭?
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而且還是煮過頭的魚?
05:46
I can't,
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我不能,
05:48
but this guy can.
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但這位廚師可以。
05:50
Let's call him Miguel米格爾 --
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讓我們叫他米格爾,
05:52
actually其實 his name名稱 is Miguel米格爾.
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其實他的名字就是米格爾。
05:54
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
05:57
And no, he didn't cook廚師 the fish, and he's not a chef廚師,
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但是,他不是煮魚的人,他也不是個廚師,
05:59
at least最小 in the way that you and I understand理解 it.
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至少他不是你我認知的那種廚師,
06:03
He's a biologist生物學家
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他是在薇塔拉帕爾馬的
06:05
at Veta女傑 La Palma帕爾馬.
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一個生物學家。
06:07
It's a fish farm農場 in the southwestern西南 corner of Spain西班牙.
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薇塔拉帕爾馬是位於西班牙西南角的養殖漁場,
06:10
It's at the tip小費 of the Guadalquivir瓜達爾基維爾 river.
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就在高達爾克維爾河的末端。
06:13
Until直到 the 1980s,
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直到1980年代,
06:15
the farm農場 was in the hands of the Argentinians阿根廷.
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這個漁場還是由阿根廷人管轄,
06:18
They raised上調 beef牛肉 cattle黃牛
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他們在這裡養牛,
06:20
on what was essentially實質上 wetlands沼澤地.
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因為這裡原本是濕地。
06:23
They did it by draining排水 the land土地.
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當時他們把水抽走,
06:25
They built內置 this intricate錯綜複雜 series系列 of canals運河,
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然後建造了錯綜複雜的運河,
06:28
and they pushed water off the land土地 and out into the river.
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他們接著把這裡的水排入河流。
06:32
Well, they couldn't不能 make it work,
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但是,他們沒有成功,
06:34
not economically經濟.
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我是指經濟方面;
06:36
And ecologically生態, it was a disaster災害.
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在環境方面,則造成了巨大的災難,
06:39
It killed殺害 like 90 percent百分 of the birds鳥類,
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差不多90%的鳥類都消失了,
06:41
which哪一個, for this place地點, is a lot of birds鳥類.
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原本這裡的鳥類是很多的。
06:44
And so in 1982,
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到了1982年,
06:46
a Spanish西班牙語 company公司 with an environmental環境的 conscience良心
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一家具有環保意識的的西班牙公司,
06:48
purchased購買 the land土地.
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購買了這塊地。
06:50
What did they do?
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他們做了什麼?
06:52
They reversed反向的 the flow of water.
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他們逆轉了水流的方向,
06:54
They literally按照字面 flipped翻轉 the switch開關.
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翻轉了開關,
06:56
Instead代替 of pushing推動 water out,
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把原本設計要排水的渠道,
06:58
they used the channels渠道 to pull water back in.
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反過來把水引進來,
07:00
They flooded the canals運河.
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用水填滿了這些運河,
07:02
They created創建 a 27,000-acre-英畝 fish farm農場 --
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然後建立了一個2萬7千英畝的漁場,
07:06
bass低音, mullet,
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裡頭有鱸魚、梭魚、
07:08
shrimp, eel鰻魚 --
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蝦、鰻魚等。
07:11
and in the process處理, Miguel米格爾 and this company公司
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在這個過程中,米格爾和這個公司
07:14
completely全然 reversed反向的 the ecological生態 destruction毀壞.
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挽救了這次生態災難。
07:18
The farm's農場 incredible難以置信.
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這個漁場真的很棒!
07:20
I mean, you've never seen看到 anything like this.
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我的意思是說,你從沒見過類似這樣的地方,
07:23
You stare out at a horizon地平線
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當你凝視著一萬英哩之外
07:26
that is a million百萬 miles英里 away,
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廣闊的地平線,
07:28
and all you see are flooded canals運河
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你眼前盡是充滿水的運河,
07:30
and this thick, rich豐富 marshland江灘.
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還有富饒的沼澤溼地。
07:35
I was there not long ago with Miguel米格爾.
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不久前,我和米格爾去過那兒,
07:38
He's an amazing驚人 guy,
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他是個了不起的人,
07:41
like three parts部分 Charles查爾斯 Darwin達爾文 and one part部分 Crocodile鱷魚 Dundee鄧迪.
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¾是達爾文,¼是鱷魚先生鄧迪。
07:44
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
07:46
Okay? There we are slogging苦讀 through通過 the wetlands沼澤地,
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我們步履艱難地進入了濕地,
07:50
and I'm panting氣吁吁的 and sweating出汗, got mud up to my knees膝蓋,
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我是氣喘吁吁加汗流浹背,淤泥淹到了我的膝蓋,
07:52
and Miguel's米格爾的 calmly平心靜氣 conducting開展 a biology生物學 lecture演講.
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米格爾則是平心靜氣地對我說著他的生物學。
07:56
Here, he's pointing指點 out a rare罕見 Black-shouldered黑肩 Kite風箏.
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他一下指著一隻罕見的黑肩鳶,
07:59
Now, he's mentioning the mineral礦物 needs需求 of phytoplankton浮游植物.
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一下又提到可以滿足礦物質需求的浮游植物,
08:03
And here, here he sees看到 a grouping分組 pattern模式
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接著他又看到一組圖案,
08:06
that reminds提醒 him of the Tanzanian坦桑尼亞 Giraffe長頸鹿.
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讓他聯想起坦桑尼亞的長頸鹿。
08:11
It turns out, Miguel米格爾 spent花費 the better part部分 of his career事業
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原來,米格爾曾經花了很長時間,
08:14
in the Mikumi米庫米 National國民 Park公園 in Africa非洲.
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在非洲的米庫米國家公園工作。
08:17
I asked him how he became成為
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我問他是怎麼成為
08:19
such這樣 an expert專家 on fish.
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一位魚類專家的,
08:21
He said, "Fish? I didn't know anything about fish.
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他說: “魚?我不了解牠們,
08:24
I'm an expert專家 in relationships關係."
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我只是一個生態關係專家。”
08:27
And then he's off, launching發射 into more talk
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然後他談起了更多
08:29
about rare罕見 birds鳥類 and algaes海藻
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關於稀有鳥類和藻類,
08:31
and strange奇怪 aquatic plants植物.
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還有特殊的水生植物。
08:33
And don't get me wrong錯誤, that was really fascinating迷人, you know,
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請不要誤解,那樣的談話真的很吸引人,
08:36
the biotic生物 community社區 unplugged不插電, kind of thing.
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他說的生態社群這一類的事情,
08:39
It's great, but I was in love.
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都很好, 但是我心另有所屬,
08:42
And my head was swooning動盪不已 over that
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我腦中始終惦記著那條
08:45
overcooked過頭 piece of delicious美味的 fish I had the night before.
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我前一晚品嚐過,被煮過頭的美味的魚。
08:48
So I interrupted間斷 him. I said,
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所以我打斷他,我說:
08:50
"Miguel米格爾, what makes品牌 your fish taste味道 so good?"
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"米格爾,你的魚為什麼那麼好吃?"
08:52
He pointed at the algae藻類.
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他指向藻類,
08:54
"I know, dude花花公子, the algae藻類, the phytoplankton浮游植物,
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“我知道, 兄弟,藻類、浮游植物、
08:57
the relationships關係: It's amazing驚人.
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生態關係,這些都很神奇,
09:00
But what are your fish eating?
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但是你餵魚吃什麼?
09:02
What's the feed飼料 conversion轉變 ratio?"
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飼料轉換率是多少?”
09:05
Well, he goes on to tell me
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然後,他繼續告訴我,
09:09
it's such這樣 a rich豐富 system系統
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這是一個很富饒的系統,
09:11
that the fish are eating what they'd他們會 be eating in the wild野生.
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這些魚吃的就是它們在野外吃的東西
09:14
The plant biomass生物質, the phytoplankton浮游植物,
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植物、浮游植物、
09:17
the zooplankton浮游動物, it's what feeds供稿 the fish.
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浮游生物等,都是魚的飼料。
09:19
The system系統 is so healthy健康,
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這個系統非常健康,
09:21
it's totally完全 self-renewing自我更新.
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會進行自我更新,
09:23
There is no feed飼料.
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不需要任何飼料。
09:26
Ever heard聽說 of a farm農場 that doesn't feed飼料 its animals動物?
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有聽說過哪一個農場不需要餵動物飼料的嗎?
09:33
Later後來 that day, I was driving主動 around this property屬性 with Miguel米格爾,
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那天稍晚時,我和米格爾開著車在附近兜風,
09:35
and I asked him, I said, "For a place地點 that seems似乎 so natural自然,
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我問他,“像這樣一個自然的地方,
09:39
unlike不像 like any farm農場 I'd ever been at,
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不像其它任何一個我曾經見過的農場,
09:44
how do you measure測量 success成功?"
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你如何衡量成功?"
09:47
At that moment時刻, it was as if
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就在那時,
09:50
a film電影 director導向器 called for a set change更改.
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彷彿有一位電影導演突然要求改變場景,
09:52
And we rounded the corner
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我們轉過彎,
09:54
and saw the most amazing驚人 sight視力:
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看到最美的畫面,
09:56
thousands數千 and thousands數千 of pink flamingos火烈鳥,
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成千上萬的粉紅色火鶴,
09:59
a literal文字 pink carpet地毯 for as far as you could see.
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就像一張粉紅色的地毯舖向遙遠的盡頭。
10:03
"That's success成功," he said.
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他說,“那就是成功。
10:06
"Look at their bellies肚子, pink.
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看看他們的腹部,粉紅色的,
10:08
They're feasting燈紅酒綠."
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他們正在享受盛宴。“
10:10
Feasting燈紅酒綠? I was totally完全 confused困惑.
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盛宴?我不知道他在說什麼。
10:12
I said, "Miguel米格爾, aren't they feasting燈紅酒綠 on your fish?"
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我說,“米格爾,他們的盛宴不正是你的魚嗎?”
10:14
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
10:16
"Yes," he said.
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“正是," 他說,
10:18
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
10:24
"We lose失去 20 percent百分 of our fish
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“鳥類會吃掉我們20%的魚,
10:26
and fish eggs to birds鳥類.
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還有魚卵,
10:30
Well, last year, this property屬性
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而且,去年這個漁場裡
10:32
had 600,000 birds鳥類 on it,
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有60萬隻鳥,
10:34
more than 250 different不同 species種類.
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有超過250種不同的種類。
10:36
It's become成為, today今天, the largest最大
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今天,這裡已經成為全歐洲
10:39
and one of the most important重要
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最大且最重要的
10:42
private私人的 bird sanctuaries避難所 in all of Europe歐洲."
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私人鳥類自然保護區之一。"
10:46
I said, "Miguel米格爾, isn't a thriving bird population人口
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我說,“米格爾,在養殖漁場裡,
10:49
like the last thing you want on a fish farm農場?"
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不是最不想見到這麼多鳥嗎?”
10:51
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
10:53
He shook震撼 his head, no.
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“不“,他搖搖頭,
10:55
He said, "We farm農場 extensively廣泛,
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他說,“我們養殖很多生物,
10:58
not intensively集中.
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不是集中養殖某一種。
11:01
This is an ecological生態 network網絡.
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這是一個生態網絡,
11:04
The flamingos火烈鳥 eat the shrimp.
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這些火鶴吃掉蝦子,
11:06
The shrimp eat the phytoplankton浮游植物.
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蝦子吃浮游動物;
11:08
So the pinker平克 the belly肚皮,
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所以他們的腹部愈粉紅,
11:10
the better the system系統."
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就代表這個生態越好。"
11:13
Okay, so let's review評論:
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好的,讓我們重新審視一下,
11:15
a farm農場 that doesn't feed飼料 its animals動物,
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這個農場不需要餵食動物,
11:18
and a farm農場 that measures措施 its success成功
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它衡量成功的方式
11:21
on the health健康 of its predators大鱷.
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是根據它的掠食者的健康狀態。
11:23
A fish farm農場, but also a bird sanctuary避難所.
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一個漁場,同時也是個鳥類庇護所,
11:26
Oh, and by the way, those flamingos火烈鳥,
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喔,而且那些火鶴,
11:28
they shouldn't不能 even be there in the first place地點.
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他們原先就不應該出現在那裡,
11:30
They brood in a town
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牠們的窩巢是在
11:32
150 miles英里 away,
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240公里外的地方,
11:34
where the soil conditions條件
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那裡的土壤狀況
11:36
are better for building建造 nests.
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較適合築巢,
11:38
Every一切 morning早上, they fly
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他們每天早上
11:40
150 miles英里 into the farm農場.
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都要飛行240公里來到這個漁場,
11:44
And every一切 evening晚間, they fly 150 miles英里 back.
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到了晚上,再飛行240公里回家。
11:47
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
11:54
They do that because they're able能夠 to follow跟隨
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因為他們這樣才能
11:57
the broken破碎 white白色 line
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順著A92號
11:59
of highway高速公路 A92.
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高速公路的白線飛...
12:01
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
12:03
No kidding開玩笑.
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這不是開玩笑。
12:05
I was imagining想像 a "March遊行 of the Penguins企鵝" thing,
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我一直在腦海中想像類似企鵝行進的事,
12:08
so I looked看著 at Miguel米格爾.
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我看著米格爾,
12:10
I said, "Miguel米格爾, do they fly
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我說,“米格爾,它們飛行240公里
12:12
150 miles英里 to the farm農場,
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來到漁場,
12:14
and then do they fly
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然後它們晚上
12:16
150 miles英里 back at night?
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再飛240公里回去嗎?
12:18
Do they do that for the children孩子?"
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它們這麼做是為了孩子嗎?"
12:21
He looked看著 at me like I had just quoted a Whitney惠特尼 Houston休斯頓 song歌曲.
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他看著我就像是我剛剛引用了惠特尼休斯頓的歌,
12:24
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
12:28
He said, "No; they do it because the food's食品的 better."
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他說,“不,他們這麼做是因為這裡的食物更好。”
12:31
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
12:33
I didn't mention提到 the skin皮膚 of my beloved心愛 fish,
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我還沒有提到我最愛的魚的皮吧?
12:41
which哪一個 was delicious美味的 -- and I don't like fish skin皮膚;
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真的是很美味,但我以前不喜歡魚皮,
12:43
I don't like it seared香煎, I don't like it crispy香脆.
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我不喜歡烤的,也不喜歡脆的,
12:46
It's that acrid辛辣, tar-like柏油樣 flavor味道.
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魚皮有腥味,像柏油的味道,
12:50
I almost幾乎 never cook廚師 with it.
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我從不把它和魚一起烹煮。
12:53
Yet然而, when I tasted it at that restaurant餐廳 in southern南部的 Spain西班牙,
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但是,當我在西班牙南部的那個餐館嚐到它的時候,
12:56
it tasted not at all like fish skin皮膚.
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嚐起來一點都不像是魚皮,
12:59
It tasted sweet and clean清潔,
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它嚐起來微甜而且乾淨,
13:02
like you were taking服用 a bite of the ocean海洋.
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就像你嚐了一口海洋自然的味道一樣。
13:05
I mentioned提到 that to Miguel米格爾, and he nodded點頭.
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我向米格爾提到我的想法,他點點頭,
13:07
He said, "The skin皮膚 acts行為 like a sponge海綿.
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他說,“魚皮的作用就像是海綿,
13:09
It's the last defense防禦 before anything enters進入 the body身體.
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它是阻止物質進入到體內的最後的防線,
13:12
It evolved進化 to soak浸泡 up impurities雜質."
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它的作用是吸收雜質,"
13:14
And then he added添加,
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他繼續說,
13:16
"But our water has no impurities雜質."
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“但是我們的水沒有雜質。”
13:22
OK. A farm農場 that doesn't feed飼料 its fish,
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好的。這個漁場不需要餵養它的魚,
13:26
a farm農場 that measures措施 its success成功
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它衡量成功的方式,
13:29
by the success成功 of its predators大鱷.
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是看它的掠食者是否成功生存。
13:31
And then I realized實現 when he says,
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然後我發現,當他說
13:33
"A farm農場 that has no impurities雜質,"
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這個漁場沒有雜質時,
13:36
he made製作 a big understatement輕描淡寫,
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他說得其實太保守了,
13:38
because the water that flows流動 through通過 that farm農場
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因為在漁場中流過的水,
13:40
comes in from the Guadalquivir瓜達爾基維爾 River.
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是來自高達爾克維爾河,
13:43
It's a river that carries攜帶 with it
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那條河中含有
13:45
all the things that rivers河流 tend趨向 to carry攜帶 these days:
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現在所有的河流都有的成份,
13:48
chemical化學 contaminants污染物,
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像是化學污染物及
13:50
pesticide農藥 runoff徑流.
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農藥等,
13:52
And when it works作品 its way through通過 the system系統
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當河水進入這個系統,
13:55
and leaves樹葉,
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之後再離開時,
13:57
the water is cleaner清潔器 than when it entered進入.
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水質會變得比來時更乾淨。
13:59
The system系統 is so healthy健康, it purifies淨化 the water.
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這個系統很健康,它可以過濾水,
14:03
So, not just a farm農場 that doesn't feed飼料 its animals動物,
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所以,這個漁場不只是不餵食動物,
14:05
not just a farm農場 that measures措施 its success成功
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也不只是根據掠食者的健康狀況
14:08
by the health健康 of its predators大鱷,
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來衡量它的成功,
14:10
but a farm農場 that's literally按照字面 a water purification純化 plant --
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它還是一個污水淨化廠,
14:16
and not just for those fish,
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不只是為那些魚淨化水質,
14:19
but for you and me as well.
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更是為了你和我。
14:21
Because when that water leaves樹葉, it dumps轉儲 out into the Atlantic大西洋.
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因為當水離開這裡時,它會流入大西洋,
14:26
A drop下降 in the ocean海洋, I know,
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雖然我知道那是滄海一粟,
14:28
but I'll take it, and so should you,
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但是我很重視它,而且你們也應該重視,
14:31
because this love story故事,
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因為這個愛的故事,
14:35
however然而 romantic浪漫,
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不但浪漫,
14:37
is also instructive教育性.
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而且有教育意義。
14:39
You might威力 say it's a recipe食譜
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你也許會說它是
14:41
for the future未來 of good food餐飲,
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未來美食的食譜,
14:43
whether是否 we're talking about bass低音 or beef牛肉 cattle黃牛.
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不管我們是在說鱸魚還是牛肉,
14:47
What we need now is
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我們現在需要的是,
14:49
a radically根本 new conception概念 of agriculture農業,
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一個全新的農業概念,
14:52
one in which哪一個 the food餐飲 actually其實 tastes口味 good.
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能夠培養出真正美食的農業概念。
14:54
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
14:56
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
15:02
But for a lot people,
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但是對很多人來說,
15:04
that's a bit too radical激進.
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這有點激進。
15:07
We're not realists現實主義者, us foodies美食家;
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我們美食家不是現實主義者,
15:09
we're lovers情侶.
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我們是美食愛好者。
15:11
We love farmers'農民 markets市場,
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我們愛農夫們自己籌組的市場,
15:13
we love small family家庭 farms農場,
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我們愛小型的家庭農場,
15:16
we talk about local本地 food餐飲,
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我們談論本地的食物,
15:18
we eat organic有機.
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我們吃有機食品。
15:21
And when you suggest建議 these are the things
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而當你提到這樣做
15:23
that will ensure確保 the future未來 of good food餐飲,
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才能保證未來有美好的食物時,
15:27
someone有人, somewhere某處 stands站立 up and says,
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某個地方的某人就會站起來說,
15:29
"Hey guy, I love pink flamingos火烈鳥,
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"嘿,我愛粉紅色的火鶴,
15:33
but how are you going to feed飼料 the world世界?"
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但是你打算怎麼填飽世人的肚子?"
15:36
How are you going to feed飼料 the world世界?
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怎麼填飽世人的肚子?
15:39
Can I be honest誠實?
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我可以坦白的說嗎?
15:41
I don't love that question.
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我不喜歡你的問題,
15:44
No, not because we already已經 produce生產
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不,不是因為我們已經生產了
15:46
enough足夠 calories卡路里 to more than feed飼料 the world世界.
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遠遠超出我們這個世界需要的卡路里,
15:49
One billion十億 people will go hungry飢餓 today今天.
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而今天仍有十億人在餓著肚子。
15:52
One billion十億 -- that's more than ever before --
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十億--史上最多的人數,
15:56
because of gross inequalities不平等 in distribution分配,
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根本原因在於總體上的分配不平衡,
15:59
not tonnage噸位.
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不是數量多寡的問題。
16:02
Now, I don't love this question because it's determined決心 the logic邏輯
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我不喜歡這個問題,是因為他假定了一個
16:04
of our food餐飲 system系統 for the last 50 years年份.
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存在於過去五十年的食物系統的邏輯,
16:07
Feed飼料 grain糧食 to herbivores食草動物,
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就是把穀物餵給食草動物,
16:10
pesticides農藥 to monocultures單一種植, chemicals化學製品 to soil,
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在單一品種作物上施打農藥,在土壤上灑化學藥劑,
16:12
chicken to fish,
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拿鷄餵魚...
16:15
and all along沿 agribusiness農業
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然後各類農業開發企業
16:18
has simply只是 asked,
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就會問:
16:20
"If we're feeding饋送 more people more cheaply廉價地,
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“如果我們用更便宜的方法養活更多的人,
16:22
how terrible可怕 could that be?"
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有什麼不對的呢?”
16:25
That's been the motivation動機,
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這就是動機,
16:27
it's been the justification理由:
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也是合理的藉口,
16:29
it's been the business商業 plan計劃
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這已經成了美國農業的
16:32
of American美國 agriculture農業.
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營運計畫。
16:34
We should call it what it is:
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我們應該為它正名,
16:36
a business商業 in liquidation清算,
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這是快要倒閉的生意,
16:39
a business商業 that's quickly很快 eroding侵蝕
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這種生意快速地侵蝕了我們的
16:42
ecological生態 capital首都 that makes品牌 that very production生產 possible可能.
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生態資本,只為了大量生產。
16:45
That's not a business商業,
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那不是生意,
16:47
and it isn't agriculture農業.
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也不是農業。
16:49
Our breadbasket糧倉 is threatened受威脅 today今天,
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今日我們的存糧正受到嚴重威脅,
16:52
not because of diminishing逐漸縮小的 supply供應,
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不是因為供給的遞減,
16:54
but because of diminishing逐漸縮小的 resources資源.
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而是因為資源的遞減。
16:57
Not by the latest最新 combine結合 and tractor拖拉機 invention發明,
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存糧的增加不能只靠最新發明的收割機與拖拉機,
17:00
but by fertile land土地;
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而是要有肥沃的土壤;
17:02
not by pumps, but by fresh新鮮 water;
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不能只靠幫浦,而是要有新鮮的水源;
17:05
not by chainsaws鏈鋸, but by forests森林;
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不能只靠電鋸,而是要有森林;
17:08
and not by fishing釣魚 boats and nets, but by fish in the sea.
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不能只靠漁船和漁網,而是要有魚在海裡游。
17:11
Want to feed飼料 the world世界?
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怎麼填飽世人的肚子?
17:13
Let's start開始 by asking: How are we going to feed飼料 ourselves我們自己?
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我們該先問:怎麼填飽自己的肚子?
17:17
Or better: How can we create創建 conditions條件
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或者更進一步問,怎麼建立一種環境,
17:20
that enable啟用 every一切 community社區
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可以讓每一個物種
17:23
to feed飼料 itself本身?
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養活自己?
17:25
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
17:32
To do that,
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要做到那樣,
17:34
don't look at the agribusiness農業 model模型 for the future未來.
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就不要指望未來還沿用現在的農業模型,
17:37
It's really old, and it's tired.
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它已經過時了,而且很疲乏了,
17:39
It's high on capital首都, chemistry化學 and machines,
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它過度依賴資金、化學和機械,
17:43
and it's never produced生成 anything really good to eat.
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而且它生產不出來真正好的食物。
17:48
Instead代替, let's look to the ecological生態 model模型.
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相反的,讓我們看看生態系統,
17:52
That's the one that relies依賴 on two billion十億 years年份
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這個系統已經實地演練過
17:55
of on-the-job在工作中 experience經驗.
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20億年了。
17:58
Look to Miguel米格爾,
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看看米格爾,
18:00
farmers農民 like Miguel米格爾.
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像米格爾這樣的農民,
18:02
Farms農場 that aren't worlds世界 unto themselves他們自己;
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他們的農場不是只屬於自己,
18:05
farms農場 that restore恢復 instead代替 of deplete消耗;
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他們能自我恢復,而不單只是消耗資源而已;
18:10
farms農場 that farm農場 extensively廣泛
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他們養殖很多物種,
18:12
instead代替 of just intensively集中;
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而不是集中養殖單一物種;
18:14
farmers農民 that are not just producers生產商,
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農民不再只是生產者,
18:17
but experts專家 in relationships關係.
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而是生態關係專家,
18:19
Because they're the ones那些
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因為他們同時也是
18:21
that are experts專家 in flavor味道, too.
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美味的專家。
18:24
And if I'm going to be really honest誠實,
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如果要我說實話,
18:26
they're a better chef廚師 than I'll ever be.
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他們是比我更好的廚師。
18:29
You know, I'm okay with that,
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我可以接受他們比我優秀,
18:32
because if that's the future未來 of good food餐飲, it's going to be delicious美味的.
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因為如果未來的優質食物是如此,那肯定是非常美味的。
18:35
Thank you.
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謝謝大家。
18:37
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
Translated by Dxm Online大小媒體
Reviewed by Marie Wu

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Barber - Chef
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat.

Why you should listen

Dan Barber is the chef at New York's Blue Hill restaurant, and Blue Hill at Stone Barns in Westchester, where he practices a kind of close-to-the-land cooking married to agriculture and stewardship of the earth. As described on Chez Pim: "Stone Barns is only 45 minutes from Manhattan, but it might as well be a whole different universe. A model of self-sufficiency and environmental responsibility, Stone Barns is a working farm, ranch, and a three-Michelin-star-worthy restaurant." It's a vision of a new kind of food chain.

Barber's philosophy of food focuses on pleasure and thoughtful conservation -- on knowing where the food on your plate comes from and the unseen forces that drive what we eat. He's written on US agricultural policies, asking for a new vision that does not throw the food chain out of balance by subsidizing certain crops at the expense of more appropriate ones.

In 2009, Barber received the James Beard award for America's Outstanding Chef, and was named one of the world's most influential people in Time’s annual "Time 100" list. In 2014 he published The Third Plate: Field Notes on the Future of Food.

More profile about the speaker
Dan Barber | Speaker | TED.com