ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Rebecca Newberger Goldstein - Philosopher and writer
Rebecca Newberger Goldstein writes novels and nonfiction that explore questions of philosophy, morality and being.

Why you should listen

In her latest book, Plato at the Googleplex: Why Philosophy Won't Go Away, Rebecca Newberger Goldstein makes the case for the importance of philosophy -- even as neuroscience tells us more about our brains, and connective technologies teach us more about the world around us. It's written in the form of a Socratic dialog, a form that Goldstein is passionate about teaching and exploring.

Meanwhile, her novels, from The Mind-Body Problem (Contemporary American Fiction) to 2011's 36 Arguments for the Existence of God: A Work of Fiction (Vintage Contemporaries), use techniques of fiction to untangle philosophical questions, such as: How should we balance heart and mind? What should we have faith in?

In 1996 Goldstein became a MacArthur Fellow, receiving the prize popularly known as the “Genius Award.” She was designated Humanist of the Year 2011 by the American Humanist Association. She's also the author of Betraying Spinoza: The Renegade Jew Who Gave Us Modernity, a combination memoir and history.

More profile about the speaker
Rebecca Newberger Goldstein | Speaker | TED.com
Steven Pinker - Psychologist
Steven Pinker is a professor of cognitive science (the study of the human mind) who writes about language, mind and human nature.

Why you should listen

Steven Pinker grew up in the English-speaking community of Montreal but has spent his adult life bouncing back and forth between Harvard and MIT. He is interested in all aspects of human nature: how we see, hear, think, speak, remember, feel and interact.

To be specific: he developed the first comprehensive theory of language acquisition in children, used verb meaning as a window into cognition, probed the limits of neural networks and showed how the interaction between memory and computation shapes language. He has used evolution to illuminate innuendo, emotional expression and social coordination. He has documented historical declines in violence and explained them in terms of the ways that the violent and peaceable components of human nature interact in different eras. He has written books on the language instinct, how the mind works, the stuff of thought and the doctrine of the blank slate, together with a guide to stylish writing that is rooted in psychology.

In his latest book, Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress, he writes about progress -- why people are healthier, richer, safer, happier and better educated than ever. His other books include The Language InstinctHow the Mind Works, The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human NatureThe Stuff of Thought, and The Better Angels of Our Nature.

More profile about the speaker
Steven Pinker | Speaker | TED.com
TED2012

Steven Pinker and Rebecca Newberger Goldstein: The long reach of reason

史迪芬·平克;丽贝卡· 纽伯格· 戈德斯坦: 史迪芬·平克;丽贝卡· 纽伯格· 戈德斯坦

Filmed:
1,110,252 views

这是一个Ted第一系列:一个动画版的苏格拉底对话!在非理性似乎已经将政治和文化统治的时代,理性思维是否已经失去了它的力量?看看心理学家史迪芬·平克被哲学家丽贝卡· 纽伯格· 戈德斯坦一步一步地,出色地说服理性其实是人类道德进步的主要推动因素,即使有时它的影响在几代以后才出现。这段对话是在TED现场录制,由Cognitive提供优秀而又幽默的动画制作。
- Philosopher and writer
Rebecca Newberger Goldstein writes novels and nonfiction that explore questions of philosophy, morality and being. Full bio - Psychologist
Steven Pinker is a professor of cognitive science (the study of the human mind) who writes about language, mind and human nature. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:13
["Rebecca丽贝卡 NewbergerNewberger Goldstein戈尔茨坦"]
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丽贝卡· 纽伯格· 戈德斯坦
00:16
["Steven史蒂芬 Pinker平克"]
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史迪芬·平克
00:18
["The Long Reach达到 of Reason原因"]
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"理智的边际"
00:23
Cabbie出租车司机: Twenty-two二十二 dollars美元.
Steven史蒂芬 Pinker平克: Okay.
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的哥:22块。
史迪芬·平克:好的。
00:29
Rebecca丽贝卡 NewbergerNewberger Goldstein戈尔茨坦: Reason原因
appears出现 to have fallen堕落 on hard times:
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丽贝卡· 纽伯格· 戈德斯坦:
理性已经遇到了多重障碍:
00:33
Popular流行 culture文化 plumbs用铅垂线 new depths深处 of dumbthdumbth
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流行文化朝着愚昧的新深度去探索
00:37
and political政治 discourse演讲 has become成为 a race种族
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而政治言论已成为
00:39
to the bottom底部.
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一场走下坡路的比赛。
00:42
We're living活的 in an era时代 of scientific科学 creationism神创论,
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我们生活在一个科学创世说的时代,
00:47
9/11 conspiracy阴谋 theories理论, psychic精神 hotlines热线,
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9/11密谋论,超自然的热线电话,
00:51
and a resurgence再起 of religious宗教 fundamentalism原教旨主义.
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以及信仰原教旨主义的复苏 。
00:54
People who think too well
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那些想法太丰富的人
00:56
are often经常 accused被告 of elitism精英,
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往往都被指责为精英主义者,
00:58
and even in the academy学院,
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即使在学术界,
01:01
there are attacks攻击 on logocentrism逻各斯中心主义,
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标志中心主义也遭受攻击,
01:03
the crime犯罪 of letting出租 logic逻辑 dominate支配 our thinking思维.
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逻辑思维被定义为犯罪。
01:08
SPSP: But is this necessarily一定 a bad thing?
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史迪芬·平克:但这个一定就是件坏事吗?
01:11
Perhaps也许 reason原因 is overrated被高估.
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或许理性有点被高估了。
01:13
Many许多 pundits专家 have argued争论 that a good heart
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许多权威专家都说一颗善良的心
01:15
and steadfast坚定 moral道德 clarity明晰
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和一个坚定的道德准则
01:17
are superior优越 to triangulations三角
of overeducated受教育水平 policy政策 wonks书呆子,
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胜过去顺从那些受太多教育的政策书呆子,
01:21
like the best最好 and brightest and that dragged us
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就好像那些将我们带入了越南的沼泽地
01:24
into the quagmire沼泽 of Vietnam越南.
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的所谓的最优秀和最聪明的人。
01:26
And wasn't it reason原因 that gave us the means手段
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那不是就是给我们方法
01:27
to despoil掠夺 the planet行星
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让我们破坏地球
01:29
and threaten威胁 our species种类 with
weapons武器 of mass destruction毁坏?
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用杀伤性武器来威胁我们种族的原因吗?
01:32
In this way of thinking思维,
it's character字符 and conscience良心,
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以这种思维方法来看,
拯救我们的将是个性和良心,
01:35
not cold-hearted冷血 calculation计算, that will save保存 us.
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而不是冷血的计算。
01:39
Besides除了, a human人的 being存在 is not a brain on a stick.
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此外,一个人的头脑包含的不仅仅是智慧。
01:42
My fellow同伴 psychologists心理学家 have shown显示 that we're led
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我的同事心理学家指出
01:45
by our bodies身体 and our emotions情绪
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我们不但受身体和情绪控制,
01:47
and use our puny弱小 powers权力 of reason原因
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而且依赖我们弱小的理性力量
01:49
merely仅仅 to rationalize理顺 our gut肠道 feelings情怀 after the fact事实.
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仅仅为了将事实后的直觉合理化。
01:52
RNGRNG: How could a reasoned理由
argument论据 logically逻辑 entail意味着
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丽贝卡:“一个理性的争论
01:55
the ineffectiveness无效 of reasoned理由 arguments参数?
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又怎么可能逻辑性地产生理性争论的无效性?
01:59
Look, you're trying to persuade说服
us of reason's原因的 impotence性无能.
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喂,你是想说服我们相信理性是没用的。
02:03
You're not threatening危险的 us or bribing贿赂 us,
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你没有在威胁我们或贿赂我们,
02:05
suggesting提示 that we resolve解决 the issue问题
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暗示我们用举手表决
02:07
with a show显示 of hands or a beauty美女 contest比赛.
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或用选美比赛的方法来解决问题。
02:10
By the very act法案 of trying to
reason原因 us into your position位置,
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你这种试图让我们认同你的观点的行为,
02:14
you're conceding失球 reason's原因的 potency效力.
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事实上是在承认理性的效能。
02:17
Reason原因 isn't up for grabs争夺 here. It can't be.
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理性在这里不是轻易可得,绝不可能。
02:20
You show显示 up for that debate辩论
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当你参与这个辩论时,
02:21
and you've already已经 lost丢失 it.
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你就已经失去了理性。
02:24
SPSP: But can reason原因 lead us in directions方向
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史迪芬:但理性可以为我们指引
02:27
that are good or decent正经 or moral道德?
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好的,体面的,或者道德的方向吗?
02:29
After all, you pointed out that reason原因
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毕竟,你对理性的解释是
02:32
is just a means手段 to an end结束,
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它只是一种达到目的的手段 ,
02:34
and the end结束 depends依靠 on the reasoner's推理的 passions激情.
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而结果取决于理性思考者的热情。
02:36
Reason原因 can lay铺设 out a road
map地图 to peace和平 and harmony和谐
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理性可以为和谐与和平铺一张路线图
02:39
if the reasoner推理 wants peace和平 and harmony和谐,
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如果理性的人希望得到和平与和谐,
02:41
but it can also lay铺设 out a road
map地图 to conflict冲突 and strife争吵
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但它的路线图也可以指引到冲突和纷争
02:44
if the reasoner推理 delights美食 in conflict冲突 and strife争吵.
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如果理性的人喜欢在冲突和纷争中寻欢。
02:46
Can reason原因 force the reasoner推理 to want
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理性可以强制一个理性者
02:49
less cruelty残酷 and waste浪费?
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去寻找更少的残酷和浪费吗?
02:51
RNGRNG: All on its own拥有, the answer回答 is no,
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丽贝卡: 光靠它自己的话不行,
02:54
but it doesn't take much to switch开关 it to yes.
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但要让它改变并不难。
02:57
You need two conditions条件:
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您需要两个条件:
02:59
The first is that reasoners推理 all care关心
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首先理性者需要都关心
03:02
about their own拥有 well-being福利.
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他们自己的福祉。
03:03
That's one of the passions激情 that has to be present当下
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这是一个为了使让理性去行动
03:06
in order订购 for reason原因 to go to work,
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而必须存在的热情,
03:09
and it's obviously明显 present当下 in all of us.
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而且很明显地我们所有人都有这股热情。
03:10
We all care关心 passionately热情
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我们都热情地关心
03:13
about our own拥有 well-being福利.
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我们自己的幸福。
03:15
The second第二 condition条件 is that reasoners推理
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第二个条件是理性者
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are members会员 of a community社区 of reasoners推理
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是整个理性团体的成员
03:20
who can affect影响 one another's他人的 well-being福利,
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他们可以影响互相的幸福,
03:22
can exchange交换 messages消息,
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可以交换消息,
03:23
and comprehend理解 each other's其他 reasoning推理.
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和理解对方的理性思考。
03:26
And that's certainly当然 true真正 of our gregarious群居
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这些的确符合我们作为合群的
03:29
and loquatiousloquatious species种类,
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和话多的物种的本性,
03:31
well endowed天赋 with the instinct直觉 for language语言.
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授予了语言的本能。
03:34
SPSP: Well, that sounds声音 good in theory理论,
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史迪芬: 嗯,理论上听起来还不错,
03:36
but has it worked工作 that way in practice实践?
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但这种方法在实践中成功过吗?
03:38
In particular特定, can it explain说明
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尤其是,它可以解释
03:40
a momentous重大 historical历史的 development发展
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我大约五年前在TED这里
03:42
that I spoke about five years年份 ago here at TEDTED?
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讲过的一个重大的历史发展吗?
03:45
Namely亦即, we seem似乎 to be getting得到 more humane人道.
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也就是说,我们似乎变得越来越仁慈了。
03:47
Centuries世纪 ago, our ancestors祖先 would burn烧伤 cats alive
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几个世纪前,我们的祖先还会将猫活烧
03:51
as a form形成 of popular流行 entertainment娱乐.
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当作为一种大众的娱乐形式。
03:53
Knights骑士 waged发动 constant不变 war战争 on each other
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骑士们不断地
03:55
by trying to kill as many许多 of each
other's其他 peasants农民 as possible可能.
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以杀尽对手的农名来向对方宣战。
03:58
Governments政府 executed执行 people for frivolous轻浮 reasons原因,
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各国政府为了一些琐屑无聊的原因
而处死自己的公民,
04:01
like stealing偷窃行为 a cabbage卷心菜
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比如像偷白菜
04:02
or criticizing批评 the royal王室的 garden花园.
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或批评皇家花园。
04:04
The executions处决 were designed设计 to be as prolonged经久
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处决通常都很漫长
04:07
and as painful痛苦 as possible可能, like crucifixion受难,
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而且非常痛苦,像被钉十字架,
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disembowelment剖腹, breaking破坏 on the wheel.
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剖腹,或者是轮刑。
04:12
Respectable可敬 people kept不停 slaves奴隶.
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可敬的人也变为奴隶。
04:14
For all our flaws破绽, we have abandoned
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就算我们有再多的缺点,
也已经停止了
04:16
these barbaric野蛮 practices做法.
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这些野蛮的行为。
04:17
RNGRNG: So, do you think it's
human人的 nature性质 that's changed?
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丽贝卡: 那么,你觉得这是人的本性改变了?
04:20
SPSP: Not exactly究竟. I think we still harbor港口 instincts本能
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史迪芬:不完全是。我觉得我们仍然怀有
04:23
that can erupt爆发 in violence暴力,
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爆发暴力行为的本能,
04:24
like greed贪心, tribalism部落, revenge复仇, dominance霸主地位, sadism虐待狂.
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比如像贪婪,部落主义, 复仇, 支配, 虐待主义。
04:29
But we also have instincts本能 that can steer驾驶 us away,
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但我们的某些本能
可以指导我们走正道,
04:32
like self-control自我控制, empathy同情, a sense of fairness公平,
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比如像自我控制, 同感, 公正感,
04:35
what Abraham亚伯拉罕 Lincoln林肯 called
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亚伯拉罕 · 林肯将这些
04:37
the better angels天使 of our nature性质.
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称之为我们本性中更好的天使。
04:38
RNGRNG: So if human人的 nature性质 didn't change更改,
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丽贝卡: 所以如果人类的本性没有改变,
04:40
what invigorated盘活 those better angels天使?
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是什么激活了这些更好的天使?
04:42
SPSP: Well, among其中 other things,
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史迪芬: 好吧,在其它方面,
04:44
our circle of empathy同情 expanded扩大.
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我们的同感范围扩大了。
04:46
Years年份 ago, our ancestors祖先 would feel the pain疼痛
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很多年前,我们的祖先只会同情
04:48
only of their family家庭 and people in their village.
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他们的家庭和他们村人。
04:51
But with the expansion扩张 of literacy读写能力 and travel旅行,
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但随着文盲的减少和旅行的增加,
04:54
people started开始 to sympathize同情
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人们开始同情
04:56
with wider更宽的 and wider更宽的 circles,
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更广泛的圈子,
04:57
the clan氏族, the tribe部落, the nation国家, the race种族,
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氏族, 部落, 民族, 种族,
05:00
and perhaps也许 eventually终于, all of humanity人性.
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或许最终会包括所有的人类。
05:03
RNGRNG: Can hard-headed头脑冷静 scientists科学家们
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丽贝卡: 不感情用事的科学家们
05:05
really give so much credit信用 to soft-hearted好心的 empathy同情?
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真的对软心肠本质的同感有帮助吗?
05:08
SPSP: They can and do.
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史迪芬: 他们可以而且会这样做。
05:10
Neurophysiologists神经生理学家 have found发现 neurons神经元 in the brain
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神经生理学家发现大脑中的神经元
05:12
that respond响应 to other people's人们 actions行动
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对他人行为做出的响应
05:14
the same相同 way they respond响应 to our own拥有.
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和对自己作出的响应是相同的。
05:16
Empathy同情 emerges出现 early in life,
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同感在成长早期出现,
05:18
perhaps也许 before the age年龄 of one.
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也许在我们一岁之前。
05:20
Books图书 on empathy同情 have become成为 bestsellers最畅销,
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关于同感的书已经成为畅销书,
05:21
like "The Empathic感情移入的 Civilization文明"
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像 "The Empathic Civilization"
05:23
and "The Age年龄 of Empathy同情."
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和"The Age of Empathy."
05:26
RNGRNG: I'm all for empathy同情. I mean, who isn't?
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丽贝卡: 我完全赞成同感。又有谁会反对呢?
05:28
But all on its own拥有, it's a feeble微弱 instrument仪器
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但在道德进步的过程中,
05:32
for making制造 moral道德 progress进展.
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它单独只是一个微弱的工具。
05:34
For one thing, it's innately天生 biased
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一方面,它天生就对
05:36
toward blood血液 relations关系, babies婴儿
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血缘关系,婴儿
05:38
and warm, fuzzy模糊 animals动物.
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和温暖毛茸茸的动物存在偏见。
05:40
As far as empathy同情 is concerned关心,
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就同感而言,
05:42
ugly丑陋 outsiders外人 can go to hell地狱.
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丑陋的局外人可以下地狱。
05:46
And even our best最好 attempts尝试 to work up sympathy同情
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甚至我们尽最大努力尝试
引起那些与我们脱轨的人
05:49
for those who are unconnected悬空 with us
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内心的同情
05:51
fall秋季 miserably非常不幸地 short, a sad伤心 truth真相 about human人的 nature性质
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结果也是事与愿违,这是人类本性的一个悲哀事实
05:56
that was pointed out by Adam亚当 Smith工匠.
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亚当 · 史密斯指出。
05:58
Adam亚当 Smith工匠: Let us suppose假设 that the great empire帝国
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亚当 · 史密斯: 让我们假设伟大的帝国,
06:00
of China中国 was suddenly突然 swallowed吞食
up by an earthquake地震,
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中国突然被地震吞没,
06:02
and let us consider考虑 how a
man of humanity人性 in Europe欧洲
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试想一下一个欧洲人
06:05
would react应对 on receiving接收 intelligence情报
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接到这场可怕的灾难的消息后
06:07
of this dreadful可怕 calamity灾害.
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会是怎样的反应。
06:09
He would, I imagine想像, first of all express表现 very strongly非常
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他会,我想,首先非常强烈的表示
06:11
his sorrow悲哀 for the misfortune不幸 of that unhappy不快乐 people.
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他对那些不幸的人感到的悲哀。
06:14
He would make many许多 melancholy愁绪 reflections思考
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他会对人类生命面对的危险
06:16
upon the precariousness不稳定 of human人的 life,
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做很多的悲哀的反思,
06:18
and when all these humane人道 sentiments情绪
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当所有这些仁慈的感伤
06:20
had been once一旦 fairly相当 expressed表达,
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以恰当的程度表达出后,
06:22
he would pursue追求 his business商业 or his pleasure乐趣
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他将继续他的自己的生活与乐趣
06:24
with the same相同 ease缓解 and tranquility宁静
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如何以往一样的舒适和宁静
06:26
as if no such这样 accident事故 had happened发生.
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仿佛没有任何不幸发生过一样。
06:28
If he was to lose失去 his little finger手指 tomorrow明天,
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如果他明天会失去他的小手指,
06:31
he would not sleep睡觉 tonight今晚,
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他今晚会无法入睡,
06:32
but provided提供 he never saw them,
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但只要他从没见过受害者,
06:34
he would snore with the most profound深刻 security安全
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他会选择打鼾的入睡
06:36
over the ruin废墟 of a hundred million百万 of his brethren弟兄.
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而不去担心超过1亿的同人所遭受的灾难。
06:39
SPSP: But if empathy同情 wasn't enough足够
to make us more humane人道,
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史迪芬: 但如果同感不足够
让我们变得更加人性化,
06:42
what else其他 was there?
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哪还有什么可以?
06:44
RNGRNG: Well, you didn't mention提到 what might威力 be
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丽贝卡: 嗯,你还没有提到
06:46
one of our most effective有效 better angels天使: reason原因.
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也许是我们最有效的更好的天使之一: 理性。
06:50
Reason原因 has muscle肌肉.
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理性是有血有肉的。
06:53
It's reason原因 that provides提供 the push to widen扩大
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理性为我们扩展同感范围
06:56
that circle of empathy同情.
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提供了推动力。
06:58
Every一切 one of the humanitarian人道主义 developments发展
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你所提到的每一个
人道主义的发展
07:01
that you mentioned提到 originated起源 with thinkers思想家
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都起源于那些
07:04
who gave reasons原因 for why some practice实践
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理性地解释了为什么一些实践
07:07
was indefensible站不住脚的.
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是站不住脚的思想家。
07:09
They demonstrated证明 that the way people treated治疗
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他们表现出对待
07:11
some particular特定 group of others其他
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特别的人群
07:13
was logically逻辑 inconsistent不符
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与他们对待自己大方法
07:15
with the way they insisted坚持
on being存在 treated治疗 themselves他们自己.
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在逻辑上是不一致的。
07:18
SPSP: Are you saying that reason原因
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史迪芬: 你是在说理性
07:19
can actually其实 change更改 people's人们 minds头脑?
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其实是可以改变人们的思维吗?
07:22
Don't people just stick with whatever随你 conviction定罪
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人们难道不是只跟随那些
07:24
serves供应 their interests利益
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对自己有利
07:25
or conforms符合 to the culture文化 that they grew成长 up in?
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或者符合他们文化背景的信念吗?
07:28
RNGRNG: Here's这里的 a fascinating迷人 fact事实 about us:
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丽贝卡: 这是关于我们的一个有趣事实:
07:31
Contradictions矛盾 bother us,
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矛盾让我们不快,
07:33
at least最小 when we're forced被迫 to confront面对 them,
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至少当我们被迫面对他们的时候,
07:35
which哪一个 is just another另一个 way of saying
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这只是对我们倾向于理性思考的
07:37
that we are susceptible易感 to reason原因.
177
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另外一种说法。
07:40
And if you look at the history历史 of moral道德 progress进展,
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如果你观察我们过去
在道德上的进步,
07:43
you can trace跟踪 a direct直接 pathway
from reasoned理由 arguments参数
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你可以找到从理性争论
07:46
to changes变化 in the way that we actually其实 feel.
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到我们实际上感觉方式的变化的一条轨迹。
07:50
Time and again, a thinker思想家 would lay铺设 out an argument论据
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一次又一次,一位思想家将争论
07:53
as to why some practice实践 was indefensible站不住脚的,
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为什么一些实践是站不住脚的,
07:57
irrational不合理的, inconsistent不符 with values already已经 held保持.
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非理性的,与我们的现今价值观不一致的。
08:02
Their essay文章 would go viral病毒,
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他们的论文会迅速传播,
08:04
get translated翻译 into many许多 languages语言,
185
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被译成多种语言,
08:06
get debated辩论 at pubs酒吧 and coffee咖啡 houses房屋 and salons沙龙,
186
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在酒吧,咖啡屋,沙龙
08:09
and at dinner晚餐 parties派对,
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以及晚宴上被人们辩论,
08:11
and influence影响 leaders领导者, legislators立法者,
188
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它还可以影响领导人, 立法会议员,
08:15
popular流行 opinion意见.
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以及大众的意见。
08:16
Eventually终于 their conclusions结论 get absorbed吸收
190
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他们的结论最终被吸入到
08:20
into the common共同 sense of decency风化,
191
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正派常识中,
08:22
erasing擦除 the tracks轨道 of the original原版的 argument论据
192
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将最初把我们带到
08:25
that had gotten得到 us there.
193
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那里的争论的轨迹抹掉。
08:27
Few少数 of us today今天 feel any need to put forth向前
194
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今天很少人觉得需要提出
08:29
a rigorous严格 philosophical哲学上 argument论据
195
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一个严格的哲学争论
08:31
as to why slavery奴隶制度 is wrong错误
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来说明为什么奴隶制是错误的
08:34
or public上市 hangings帘子 or beating跳动 children孩子.
197
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3558
或这公开绞刑,或殴打儿童。
08:37
By now, these things just feel wrong错误.
198
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2900
现在,这些行为都被认为是错的。
08:40
But just those arguments参数 had to be made制作,
199
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2837
但那些争议必须被提出,
08:43
and they were, in centuries百年 past过去.
200
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而且存在了几个世纪。
08:46
SPSP: Are you saying that people needed需要
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史迪芬: 你是在说我们需要
08:48
a step-by-step一步步 argument论据 to grasp把握
202
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一套步骤性的争论来理解
08:50
why something might威力 be a wee凌晨 bit wrong错误
203
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为什么像火刑异教徒
08:52
with burning燃烧 heretics外道 at the stake赌注?
204
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1778
这类行为是不对的吗?
08:53
RNGRNG: Oh, they did. Here's这里的 the French法国 theologian神学家
205
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2917
丽贝卡: 哦,他们做了。这是法国神学家
08:56
Sebastian塞巴斯蒂安 Castellio卡斯特利奥 making制造 the case案件.
206
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塞巴斯蒂安 · 卡斯特利奥说的一段话。
08:59
Sebastian塞巴斯蒂安 Castellio卡斯特利奥: Calvin卡尔文 says that he's certain某些,
207
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塞巴斯蒂安 · 卡斯特利奥: 卡尔文说他确定,
09:01
and other sects门派 say that they are.
208
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1640
而其他宗派说他们也是。
09:03
Who shall be judge法官?
209
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谁来当法官呢?
09:04
If the matter is certain某些, to whom is it so? To Calvin卡尔文?
210
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2438
如果这件事是肯定的,
是对谁来说呢?对卡尔文?
09:07
But then, why does he write so
many许多 books图书 about manifest表现 truth真相?
211
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3019
那他为什么还要写这么多关于已知真相的书呢?
09:10
In view视图 of the uncertainty不确定, we must必须 define确定 heretics外道
212
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2536
鉴于不确定性,我们必须将异教徒定义
09:12
simply只是 as one with whom we disagree不同意.
213
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1764
为一个人仅仅与我们持有不同意见的个人。
09:14
And if then we are going to kill heretics外道,
214
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1972
如果这样我们就要杀死异教徒,
09:16
the logical合乎逻辑 outcome结果 will be a war战争 of extermination灭绝,
215
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2241
逻辑性的结果就是一场灭绝的战争,
09:18
since以来 each is sure of himself他自己.
216
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1871
因为每个人都坚信自己的观点。
09:20
SPSP: Or with hideous可怕 punishments处罚
217
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1549
史迪芬: 或许勇可怕的刑罚
09:22
like breaking破坏 on the wheel?
218
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1843
比如轮刑?
09:23
RNGRNG: The prohibition禁令 in our constitution宪法
219
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2508
丽贝卡: 美国宪法禁止
09:26
of cruel残忍 and unusual异常 punishments处罚
220
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2032
残忍和不寻常的刑罚
09:28
was a response响应 to a pamphlet小册子 circulated流传 in 1764
221
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3581
是对1764年由意大利法学家切西萨尔·贝卡里亚
09:32
by the Italian意大利 jurist法学家 Cesare切萨雷 Beccaria贝卡利亚.
222
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3519
颁发的一本宣传小册的回应。
09:35
Cesare切萨雷 Beccaria贝卡利亚: As punishments处罚
become成为 more cruel残忍,
223
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西萨尔·贝卡里亚: 当刑罚变得更残酷时,
09:37
the minds头脑 of men男人, which哪一个 like fluids流体
224
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2083
人的思想,就好像液体一样
09:39
always adjust调整 to the level水平 of the objects对象
225
567964
1959
总是变得像他们周围
09:41
that surround环绕 them, become成为 hardened硬化,
226
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1879
物体一样,变得无情,
09:43
and after a hundred years年份 of cruel残忍 punishments处罚,
227
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2845
在经历一百年的残忍刑罚后,
09:46
breaking破坏 on the wheel causes原因 no more fear恐惧
228
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2192
轮刑不会比像以前那样
09:48
than imprisonment徒刑 previously先前 did.
229
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2144
比监禁造成更大的恐惧。
09:50
For a punishment惩罚 to achieve实现 its objective目的,
230
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2047
要让一种刑罚达到它的目标,
09:53
it is only necessary必要 that the harm危害 that it inflicts对敌人造成
231
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2740
只需要让它造成的伤害
09:55
outweighs胜过 the benefit效益 that derives导出 from the crime犯罪,
232
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3059
超过犯罪所带来的利益,
09:58
and into this calculation计算 ought应该 to be factored因式分解
233
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2108
这种计算应该考虑到
10:00
the certainty肯定 of punishment惩罚
234
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刑罚的确定性
10:02
and the loss失利 of the good
235
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1138
以及犯罪会产生的
10:03
that the commission佣金 of the crime犯罪 will produce生产.
236
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2635
利益的丢失。
10:06
Everything beyond this is superfluous多余,
237
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1792
超出这些的都是多余的,
10:08
and therefore因此 tyrannical强横.
238
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1951
所以它们都是暴虐。
10:10
SPSP: But surely一定 antiwar反战 movements运动 depended依赖
239
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2350
史迪芬: 但反战运动肯定取决于
10:12
on mass demonstrations示威
240
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1529
大规模示威
10:13
and catchy上口 tunes曲调 by folk民间 singers歌手
241
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民歌歌手那些上口的曲调
10:16
and wrenching痛苦 photographs照片
of the human人的 costs成本 of war战争.
242
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2907
还有那些让人看了觉得悲痛战争照片。
10:18
RNGRNG: No doubt怀疑, but modern现代 anti-war防战 movements运动
243
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3178
丽贝卡: 没有怀疑,但是现代反战运动
10:22
reach达到 back to a long chain of thinkers思想家
244
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可追溯到一长串的思想家
10:24
who had argued争论 as to why we ought应该 to mobilize动员
245
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他们争论为什么我们将
10:27
our emotions情绪 against反对 war战争,
246
615446
2239
反对战争的情绪表达出来,
10:29
such这样 as the father父亲 of modernity现代, Erasmus伊拉斯谟.
247
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3127
其中包括现代性之父- 伊拉斯莫斯。
10:32
Erasmus伊拉斯谟: The advantages优点 derived派生 from peace和平
248
620812
1857
伊拉斯莫斯: 和平所带来的好处
10:34
diffuse扩散 themselves他们自己 far and wide,
249
622669
1665
将自己弥漫到远方,
10:36
and reach达到 great numbers数字,
250
624334
1899
影响到更多人,
10:38
while in war战争, if anything turns out happily高高兴兴,
251
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2001
然而在战争中,如果任何事是好的结果,
10:40
the advantage优点 redoundsredounds only to a few少数,
252
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2224
优势只会回报少数几人,
10:42
and those unworthy不值得 of reaping收获 it.
253
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2011
而且他们都是那些不值得获取回报的人。
10:44
One man's男人的 safety安全 is owing亏欠的
to the destruction毁坏 of another另一个.
254
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2877
一个人的安全应归功于
对另一个人的破坏。
10:47
One man's男人的 prize is derived派生
from the plunder掠夺 of another另一个.
255
635346
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一个人的奖是来自对另一个人的掠夺。
10:50
The cause原因 of rejoicings欣喜 made制作 by one side
256
638015
2167
一边的欢庆
10:52
is to the other a cause原因 of mourning.
257
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2348
是另一边的哀悼。
10:54
Whatever随你 is unfortunate不幸的 in war战争,
258
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1541
战争中的所有不幸,
10:56
is severely严重 so indeed确实,
259
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1660
都非常的严重
10:57
and whatever随你, on the contrary相反,
260
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1402
与此任何相反的,
10:59
is called good fortune幸运,
261
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1289
都被称为好运,
11:00
is a savage野蛮人 and a cruel残忍 good fortune幸运,
262
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1919
是野蛮和残忍的好运气,
11:02
an ungenerous吝啬 happiness幸福 deriving推导
its existence存在 from another's他人的 woe荣辱与共.
263
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从他人的祸中得到的一种吝啬的幸福。
11:05
SPSP: But everyone大家 knows知道 that the movement运动
264
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1857
史迪芬: 但大家都知道
11:07
to abolish废除 slavery奴隶制度 depended依赖 on faith信仰 and emotion情感.
265
655835
3218
废除奴隶制运动
是取决于信念和情感。
11:11
It was a movement运动 spearheaded带头 by the Quakers贵格会,
266
659053
2250
它是由贵格会信徒
率先发起的一场运动
11:13
and it only became成为 popular流行 when
Harriet哈里特 Beecher比彻 Stowe's斯托夫人 novel小说
267
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3335
它在哈丽特 · 比彻 · 斯托夫人的小说
"Uncle Tom's Cabin"
11:16
"Uncle叔叔 Tom's汤姆 Cabin" became成为 a bestseller畅销书.
268
664638
2284
成为了一本畅销书后才成名。
11:18
RNGRNG: But the ball got rolling压延 a century世纪 before.
269
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2917
丽贝卡: 但这一运动在一个世纪前就开始了。
11:21
John约翰 Locke洛克 bucked逆势 the tide浪潮 of millennia千年
270
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3238
约翰 · 洛克顶住几千年来的浪潮
11:25
that had regarded认为 the practice实践 as perfectly完美 natural自然.
271
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这曾被认为实践作为完美的自然。
11:28
He argued争论 that it was inconsistent不符
272
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2574
他认为那是
11:31
with the principles原则 of rational合理的 government政府.
273
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1922
与理性的政府的原则不一致的。
11:32
John约翰 Locke洛克: Freedom自由 of men男人 under government政府
274
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1645
约翰 · 洛克: 公民在政府领导下的自由
11:34
is to have a standing常设 rule规则 to live生活 by
275
682643
2019
是依靠一个规则来生活
11:36
common共同 to everyone大家 of that society社会
276
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2053
这个规则对社会的每个人都一样
11:38
and made制作 by the legislative立法 power功率 erected架设 in it,
277
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3072
而且是由竖立它的立法权力来制定,
11:41
a liberty自由 to follow跟随 my own拥有 will in all things
278
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2184
一个自由让我在所有事上面
都可以追随自己意愿
11:43
where that rule规则 prescribes规定 not,
279
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1720
在此这条规则不规定,
11:45
not to be subject学科 to the inconstant易变的,
280
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1911
无须接受另一个人的无常,
11:47
uncertain不确定, unknown未知, arbitrary随意 will of another另一个 man,
281
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不确定,未知,和随意的希望,
11:51
as freedom自由 of nature性质 is to
be under no other restraint克制
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作为自然的自由权就是除了自然法则
11:53
but the law of nature性质.
283
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它不受到任何其他约束。
11:55
SPSP: Those words sound声音 familiar.
284
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1792
史迪芬: 这句话我好像听过。
11:57
Where have I read them before? Ah, yes.
285
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我是在哪听说的呢?啊,对的。
12:00
Mary玛丽 Astell阿斯特尔: If absolute绝对 sovereignty主权
be not necessary必要
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玛丽· 阿斯特尔: 如果绝对主权在一个国家
12:02
in a state, how comes it to be so in a family家庭?
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不是必要的,那为什么在一个家庭要是呢?
12:05
Or if in a family家庭, why not in a state?
288
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或者如果在家庭里是必要的,为什么在国家不是呢?
12:08
Since以来 no reason原因 can be alleged所谓的 for the one
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1868
因为我们找不出任何理由
12:10
that will not hold保持 more strongly非常 for the other,
290
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2108
让我们可以只是支持其中一个观点,而不同时支持另外的观点
12:12
if all men男人 are born天生 free自由,
291
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如果所有人
天生就有自由,
12:13
how is it that all women妇女 are born天生 slaves奴隶,
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为什么所有女人天生是奴隶,
12:16
as they must必须 be if being存在 subjected
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因为她们必须是
12:18
to the inconstant易变的, uncertain不确定,
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当她们遭到无常、 不确定
12:20
unknown未知, arbitrary随意 will of men男人
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未知,和男人随意的意愿
12:23
be the perfect完善 condition条件 of slavery奴隶制度?
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这不正是完美奴役状况的吗?
12:26
RNGRNG: That sort分类 of co-option共选择
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1933
丽贝卡: 那类的共同选择
12:28
is all in the job工作 description描述 of reason原因.
298
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都在理性的工作职责中。
12:30
One movement运动 for the expansion扩张 of rights权利
299
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2175
一个扩大权利的运动
12:32
inspires激励 another另一个 because the logic逻辑 is the same相同,
300
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激发另一个因为逻辑是一样的,
12:36
and once一旦 that's hammered敲定 home,
301
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1899
当它费尽全力让某人理解的时候,
12:38
it becomes increasingly日益 uncomfortable不舒服
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它会变得越来越不舒服
12:41
to ignore忽视 the inconsistency前后矛盾.
303
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若要忽略不一致的问题。
12:43
In the 1960s, the Civil国内 Rights Movement运动
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在20世纪60 年代,
民权运动
12:46
inspired启发 the movements运动 for women's女士的 rights权利,
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1918
启发了妇女权利的运动,
12:47
children's儿童 rights权利, gay同性恋者 rights权利 and even animal动物 rights权利.
306
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儿童权利,同性恋权利,甚至动物权利。
12:51
But fully充分 two centuries百年 before,
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2422
但两个世纪前,
12:54
the Enlightenment启示 thinker思想家 Jeremy杰里米 Bentham边沁
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2148
启蒙思想家
杰里米 · 边沁
12:56
had exposed裸露 the indefensibility不可抵赖
309
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2702
暴露了习惯性实践的
12:58
of customary习惯性 practices做法 such这样 as
310
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2442
不可靠性
13:01
the cruelty残酷 to animals动物.
311
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2103
比如说残酷对待动物。
13:03
Jeremy杰里米 Bentham边沁: The question
is not, can they reason原因,
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2380
杰里米 · 边沁: 问题不是它们能不能理性思考,
13:05
nor也不 can they talk, but can they suffer遭受?
313
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3393
也不是它们能不能说话,而是它们能否感到痛苦。
13:09
RNGRNG: And the persecution迫害 of homosexuals同性恋者.
314
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2844
丽贝卡: 还有对同性恋者的迫害。
13:12
JBJB: As to any primary mischief恶作剧,
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1968
史迪芬: 对任何主要的恶作剧,
13:14
it's evident明显 that it produces产生 no pain疼痛 in anyone任何人.
316
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3257
很明显它没有给任何人带来痛苦。
13:17
On the contrary相反, it produces产生 pleasure乐趣.
317
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2250
与此相反,它会产生快感。
13:19
The partners伙伴 are both willing愿意.
318
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1530
双方都愿意。
13:21
If either of them be unwilling不甘,
319
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1544
如果其中一方不愿意,
13:22
the act法案 is an offense罪行,
320
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1358
那么该行为就是一种冒犯,
13:23
totally完全 different不同 in its nature性质 of effects效果.
321
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2209
在其影响的性质完全不同。
13:26
It's a personal个人 injury. It's a kind of rape强奸.
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2612
它是人身伤害。它是一种强奸。
13:28
As to the any danger危险 exclusive独家 of pain疼痛,
323
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2244
就好像任何不带痛苦的危险,
13:31
the danger危险, if any, much consist组成
324
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1712
如果有这种危险,
多存在于
13:32
in the tendency趋势 of the example.
325
800740
1839
示例的倾向中。
13:34
But what is the tendency趋势 of this example?
326
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3134
但此示例的倾向是什么?
13:37
To dispose部署 others其他 to engage从事 in the same相同 practices做法.
327
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2272
安排他人从事同样的做法。
13:39
But this practice实践 produces产生 not pain疼痛 of any kind
328
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2694
但这种做法不会产生任何一种痛苦
13:42
to anyone任何人.
329
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对任何人都是。
13:44
SPSP: Still, in every一切 case案件, it took at least最小 a century世纪
330
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2466
史迪芬: 但是,每一个案例都花了至少一个世纪
13:46
for the arguments参数 of these great thinkers思想家
331
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1859
这些伟大思想家的争论
13:48
to trickle down and infiltrate浸润
the population人口 as a whole整个.
332
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3405
垂滴和渗透到整个人类。
13:52
It kind of makes品牌 you wonder奇迹 about our own拥有 time.
333
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2479
它会让你会想知道我们自己的时间。
13:54
Are there practices做法 that we engage从事 in
334
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1969
在我们参与的实践中,
13:56
where the arguments参数 against反对
them are there for all to see
335
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2795
有没有将
反对他们的论点有给大家看
13:59
but nonetheless尽管如此, we persist坚持 in them?
336
827286
2289
但我们仍然坚持?
14:01
RNGRNG: When our great grandchildren孙子 look back at us,
337
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2992
丽贝卡: 当我们的曾孙子回看我们的时候,
14:04
will they be as appalled by some of our practices做法
338
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3215
他们会不会因为我们的一些实践感到震惊
14:07
as we are by our slave-owning奴隶主, heretic-burning异端燃烧,
339
835782
3659
就好像我们对那些拥有奴隶,焚烧异教徒,
14:11
wife-beating打老婆, gay-bashing同性恋扑 ancestors祖先?
340
839441
3088
殴打妻子、 贬低同性恋的祖先一样呢?
14:14
SPSP: I'm sure everyone大家 here
could think of an example.
341
842529
2792
史迪芬: 我相信在这里的每个人
都能想到的一个例子。
14:17
RNGRNG: I opt选择 for the mistreatment虐待 of animals动物
342
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2030
丽贝卡: 我选择虐待动物的行为
14:19
in factory farms农场.
343
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1711
在工厂化的农场。
14:21
SPSP: The imprisonment徒刑 of nonviolent非暴力 drug药物 offenders罪犯
344
849062
2230
史迪芬: 对非暴力毒品罪犯的监禁
14:23
and the toleration容忍 of rape强奸 in our nation's国家 prisons监狱.
345
851292
2702
和我们国家的监狱中对强奸行为的容忍。
14:25
RNGRNG: Scrimping on donations捐款 to life-saving救生 charities慈善机构
346
853994
2725
丽贝卡:对针对发展中国家
拯救生命慈善机构
14:28
in the developing发展 world世界.
347
856719
1657
捐款的吝啬。
14:30
SPSP: The possession所有权 of nuclear weapons武器.
348
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2342
史迪芬: 拥有核武器。
14:32
RNGRNG: The appeal上诉 to religion宗教 to justify辩解
349
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2377
丽贝卡: 诉诸于宗教
要求他们给予
14:35
the otherwise除此以外 unjustifiable无理,
350
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1640
其它途径得不到的公正。
14:36
such这样 as the ban禁止 on contraception避孕.
351
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2512
如对避孕的禁令。
14:39
SPSP: What about religious宗教 faith信仰 in general一般?
352
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1788
史迪芬:还有一般的宗教信仰呢?
14:41
RNGRNG: Eh, I'm not holding保持 my breath呼吸.
353
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2181
丽贝卡: 哎,我期望不高。
14:43
SPSP: Still, I have become成为 convinced相信
354
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2057
史迪芬: 不过,我还是相信
14:45
that reason原因 is a better angel天使
355
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1711
理性是一个更好的天使
14:46
that deserves值得 the greatest最大 credit信用
356
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1572
它在我们人类享受过去的道德进步
14:48
for the moral道德 progress进展 our species种类 has enjoyed享受
357
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2654
和对未来的进步
14:51
and that holds持有 out the greatest最大 hope希望
358
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2115
抱着大希望方面
14:53
for continuing继续 moral道德 progress进展 in the future未来.
359
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2816
有着最大的功劳。
14:56
RNGRNG: And if, our friends朋友,
360
884141
1902
丽贝卡: 如果,我们的朋友们,
14:58
you detect检测 a flaw缺陷 in this argument论据,
361
886043
2680
你如果在这个争论中
检测到缺陷的存在,
15:00
just remember记得 you'll你会 be depending根据 on reason原因
362
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3322
请记得以理性的方式
15:04
to point it out.
363
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1371
来将它们找出来。
15:05
Thank you.
SPSP: Thank you.
364
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2714
谢谢。
史迪芬·平克:“谢谢大家。”
15:08
(Applause掌声)
365
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6995
掌声
Translated by Chunda Zeng
Reviewed by Martian Lee

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ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Rebecca Newberger Goldstein - Philosopher and writer
Rebecca Newberger Goldstein writes novels and nonfiction that explore questions of philosophy, morality and being.

Why you should listen

In her latest book, Plato at the Googleplex: Why Philosophy Won't Go Away, Rebecca Newberger Goldstein makes the case for the importance of philosophy -- even as neuroscience tells us more about our brains, and connective technologies teach us more about the world around us. It's written in the form of a Socratic dialog, a form that Goldstein is passionate about teaching and exploring.

Meanwhile, her novels, from The Mind-Body Problem (Contemporary American Fiction) to 2011's 36 Arguments for the Existence of God: A Work of Fiction (Vintage Contemporaries), use techniques of fiction to untangle philosophical questions, such as: How should we balance heart and mind? What should we have faith in?

In 1996 Goldstein became a MacArthur Fellow, receiving the prize popularly known as the “Genius Award.” She was designated Humanist of the Year 2011 by the American Humanist Association. She's also the author of Betraying Spinoza: The Renegade Jew Who Gave Us Modernity, a combination memoir and history.

More profile about the speaker
Rebecca Newberger Goldstein | Speaker | TED.com
Steven Pinker - Psychologist
Steven Pinker is a professor of cognitive science (the study of the human mind) who writes about language, mind and human nature.

Why you should listen

Steven Pinker grew up in the English-speaking community of Montreal but has spent his adult life bouncing back and forth between Harvard and MIT. He is interested in all aspects of human nature: how we see, hear, think, speak, remember, feel and interact.

To be specific: he developed the first comprehensive theory of language acquisition in children, used verb meaning as a window into cognition, probed the limits of neural networks and showed how the interaction between memory and computation shapes language. He has used evolution to illuminate innuendo, emotional expression and social coordination. He has documented historical declines in violence and explained them in terms of the ways that the violent and peaceable components of human nature interact in different eras. He has written books on the language instinct, how the mind works, the stuff of thought and the doctrine of the blank slate, together with a guide to stylish writing that is rooted in psychology.

In his latest book, Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress, he writes about progress -- why people are healthier, richer, safer, happier and better educated than ever. His other books include The Language InstinctHow the Mind Works, The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human NatureThe Stuff of Thought, and The Better Angels of Our Nature.

More profile about the speaker
Steven Pinker | Speaker | TED.com