TEDGlobal 2005
Robert Neuwirth: The hidden world of shadow cities
羅伯‧紐沃斯談「影子城市」
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「影子城市」的作者，羅伯‧紐沃斯帶我們探訪世界的貧民區-上億人的家園- 創新及創造的中心。
Robert Neuwirth - Author
Robert Neuwirth’s writings on the street-level reality of the developing world have opened a new dialogue on development and economics. Full bio
Robert Neuwirth’s writings on the street-level reality of the developing world have opened a new dialogue on development and economics. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:24
Let me show you some images
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讓我們來看看
00:25
of what I consider to be the cities of tomorrow.
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我眼中的明日之城
00:28
So, that's Kibera, the largest squatter community in Nairobi.
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這是奈洛比最大的貧民區 基貝拉
00:38
This is the squatter community in Sanjay Gandhi National Park
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這是位於桑賈伊·甘地國家公園的貧民區
00:43
in Bombay, India, what's called Mumbai these days.
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這在印度 現在稱為孟買 (Mumbai)
00:47
This is Hosinia, the largest and most urbanized favela
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這裡是荷西尼亞 最大也最都市化的貧民區
00:51
in Rio de Janeiro.
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位於里約熱內盧
00:53
And this is Sultanbelyi,
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這張是蘇丹貝利
00:55
which is one of the largest squatter communities in Istanbul.
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它是伊斯坦堡最大的貧民社區之一
01:02
They are what I consider to be the cities of tomorrow,
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它們就是我眼中的明日之城
01:04
the new urban world.
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新世界城市
01:06
Now, why do I say that?
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我會什麼這樣說
01:08
To tell you about that I have to talk about this fellow here,
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跟你解釋之前 我得先談談這個傢伙
01:11
his name is Julius.
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他的名字是朱利亞斯
01:13
And I met Julius the last week that I was living in Kibera.
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他是我住在基貝拉的最後一週認識的
01:18
So, I had been there almost three months,
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我在那裏待了將近三個月
01:21
and I was touring around the city going to different squatter areas
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在這城市裡的各個貧民區穿梭
01:25
and Julius was tagging along, and he was bug eyed
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朱利亞斯瞪大了眼睛 跟著我到處去
01:28
and at certain points we were walking around,
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有一次我們到處走的時候
01:31
he grabbed my hand for support,
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他突然緊抓我的手 撐住他自己
01:33
which is something most Kenyans would never consider doing.
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就肯亞人而言 這幾乎是不可能發生的
01:36
They're very polite and they don't get so forward so quickly.
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他們非常禮貌 而且很慢熟
01:41
And I found out later that it was Julius' first day in Nairobi,
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我後來才知道 原來那是朱利亞斯第一次到奈洛比
01:47
and he's one of many.
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他是許多人之一
01:51
So, close to 200,000 people a day
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因為每天有將近200,000人
01:55
migrate from the rural to the urban areas.
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從鄉下移居到都市裡來
01:59
That's, and I'm going to be fair to the statisticians
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以數據公平的說明的話
02:02
who talked this morning, not almost 1.5 million people a week,
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我們今天早上談的不是一週將近150萬人
02:05
but almost 1.4 million people a week but I'm a journalist,
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而是一週將近140萬人 但身為一個記者
02:08
and we exaggerate, so almost 1.5 million people a week,
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誇大一點的形容 就是一週150萬人
02:12
close to 70 million people a year.
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一年將近7000萬人
02:16
And if you do the math, that's 130 people every minute.
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如果你算一下 那可是每分鐘130人
02:20
So, that'll be -- in the 18 minutes that I'm given to talk here,
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我在這邊演講的18分鐘內
02:23
between two and three thousand people will have journeyed to the cities.
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大約有2000到3000人遷移到都市了
02:27
And here are the statistics.
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再來看看數據
02:30
Today -- a billion squatters,
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今天有十億個貧民
02:32
one in six people on the planet.
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這地球上六分之一的人口
02:34
2030 -- two billion squatters,
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2030年 有20億貧民
02:37
one in four people on the planet.
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每四個人就有一個是貧民
02:39
And the estimate is that in 2050, there'll be three billion squatters,
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估計到了2050年 會有30億的貧民
02:42
better than one in three people on earth.
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估計到了2050年 超過三分之一的人口都貧民
02:46
So, these are the cities of the future, and we have to engage them.
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所以這些都是未來的都市 我們必須參與它
02:55
And I was thinking this morning of the good life,
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今天早上我思考何謂美好的生活
03:01
and before I show you the rest of my presentation,
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在我繼續接下來的簡報之前
03:03
I'm going to violate TED rules here,
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我要先違反TED的規定
03:05
and I'm going to read you something from my book as quickly as I can.
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很快的為你們讀 一段我書裡的內容
03:11
Because I think it says something about reversing our perception
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因為它探討如何扭轉
03:16
of what we think the good life is.
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我們對於的美好生活的定義
03:23
So -- "The hut was made of corrugated metal, set on a concrete pad.
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鐵皮小屋坐落在水泥台上
03:28
It was a 10 by 10 cell.
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它是個10x10的方體。
03:31
Armstrong O'Brian, Jr. shared it with three other men.
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小阿姆斯壯.歐布萊恩 跟另外三個男人共住
03:35
Armstrong and his friends had no water --
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阿姆斯壯跟他的朋友們沒有水
03:38
they bought it from a nearby tap owner --
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他們跟附近水龍頭的主人買水
03:40
no toilet -- the families in this compound shared a single pit-latrine --
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沒有廁所 這個院落的家庭共用一個茅坑
03:45
and no sewers or sanitation.
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這裡沒有汙水道或衛生設施
03:47
They did have electricity,
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他們以前有電
03:49
but it was illegal service tapped from someone else's wires,
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不過那是從別人家非法接來的電
03:52
and could only power one feeble bulb.
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而且只夠點亮一顆電燈泡
03:55
This was Southland, a small shanty community
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這是Southland 一個鐵皮屋社區
03:58
on the western side of Nairobi, Kenya.
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在肯亞奈洛比的西邊
04:00
But it could've been anywhere in the city,
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不過其實這也可能是城市裡任何一角
04:03
because more than half the city of Nairobi lives like this.
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因為奈洛比一半以上的人都住在這種地方
04:06
1.5 million people stuffed into mud or metal huts
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1500萬人擠在一堆鐵皮土角屋
04:10
with no services, no toilets, no rights.
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沒有基礎設施 沒有廁所 沒有權力
04:13
"Armstrong explained the brutal reality of their situation:
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阿姆斯壯說明了他們嚴苛的處境
04:17
they paid 1,500 shillings in rent, about 20 bucks a month,
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他們每月的房租1500先令 大約美金20塊
04:20
a relatively high price for a Kenyan shantytown,
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在肯亞的鐵皮屋社區裡 這算是比較貴的
04:23
and they could not afford to be late with the money.
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他們的手頭很緊 收入不能有任何延誤
04:26
'In case you owe one month, the landlord will come with his henchmen
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如果你欠了一個月的房租 房東會帶他的手下來
04:28
and bundle you out. He will confiscate your things,' Armstrong said.
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把你趕出去 他也會沒收你的東西 阿姆斯壯說
04:32
'Not one month, one day,' his roommate Hilary Kibagendi Onsomu,
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一個月 甚至 一天都不行 他的室友 希拉瑞.其巴堅地.翁蘇姆說
04:37
who was cooking ugali, the spongy white cornmeal concoction
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他正在煮烏卡利 一種玉米粉做成的白色粥
04:40
that is the staple food in the country, cut into the conversation.
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這是國家的主食 回歸主題
04:44
They called their landlord a Wabenzi, meaning that he is a person
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他們稱房東為瓦本西 意思是他是一個
04:47
who has enough money to drive a Mercedes-Benz.
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有錢到能開賓士的人
04:53
Hilary served the ugali with a fry of meat and tomatoes;
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希拉瑞拿番茄炒肉配烏卡利
04:56
the sun slammed down on the thin steel roof;
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太陽把鐵皮屋頂曬的熱騰騰
04:59
and we perspired as we ate.
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我們邊吃邊流汗
05:01
"After we finished, Armstrong straightened his tie,
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吃飽後 阿姆斯壯調整他的領帶
05:04
put on a wool sports jacket, and we headed out into the glare.
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穿上一件羊毛的運動外套 走到外頭的烈陽下
05:08
Outside a mound of garbage formed the border
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外面的垃圾堆成了邊界
05:11
between Southland and the adjacent legal neighborhood of Langata.
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隔開Southland跟緊鄰的合法社區Langata
05:14
It was perhaps eight feet tall, 40 feet long, and 10 feet wide.
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這搭約有8尺高 40尺長 10尺寬
05:19
And it was set in a wider watery ooze.
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被一圈汙水環繞著
05:23
As we passed, two boys were climbing the mount Kenya of trash.
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我們經過的時候 有兩個男孩爬上肯亞的垃圾山
05:27
They couldn't have been more than five or six years old.
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他們年紀不過五 六 歲
05:29
They were barefoot, and with each step their toes sank into the muck
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他們打著赤腳 每一步都讓腳趾陷入了垃圾堆
05:33
sending hundreds of flies scattering from the rancid pile.
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引起垃圾堆上 上百隻蒼蠅的一陣騷動
05:37
I thought they might be playing King of the Hill, but I was wrong.
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我原本以為他們在玩山丘之王的遊戲 可是我錯了
05:41
Once atop the pile, one of the boys lowered his shorts,
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其中一個男孩爬到垃圾山頂之後
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squatted, and defecated.
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脫下褲子 蹲下來大便
05:47
The flies buzzed hungrily around his legs.
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貪婪的蒼蠅在他腿邊飛來飛去
05:51
When 20 families -- 100 people or so -- share a single latrine,
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當20個家庭 100人上下 共用一個茅坑
05:56
a boy pooping on a garbage pile is perhaps no big thing.
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一個小男孩上垃圾堆上大號 可能變的稀鬆平常
06:00
But it stood in jarring contrast
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但這跟阿姆斯壯在吃飯時後說的話
06:02
to something Armstrong had said as we were eating --
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對比反差很大
06:05
that he treasured the quality of life in his neighborhood.
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他說他很珍惜這社區給予的生活水準
06:08
"For Armstrong, Southland wasn't constrained by its material conditions.
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對阿姆斯壯而言 Southland不受物質條件侷限
06:13
Instead, the human spirit radiated out
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相反的 這裡發揮的是人的精神
06:16
from the metal walls and garbage heaps to offer something
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這一堆鐵皮垃圾堆提供的是
06:19
no legal neighborhood could: freedom.
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任何一個河法社區都無法給的自由
06:22
'This place is very addictive,' he had said.
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他說 這種地方很容易上癮
06:25
'It's a simple life, but nobody is restricting you.
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這種簡單的生活 沒有任何人會限制你
06:28
Nobody is controlling what you do.
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沒人管你的所作所為
06:31
Once you have stayed here, you cannot go back.'
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你一旦在這邊生活 就無法回頭了
06:35
He meant back beyond that mountain of trash,
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他說的回頭 只的是遠離這堆垃圾山
06:37
back in the legal city, of legal buildings,
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回到合法的城市 跟合法的建築物
06:40
with legal leases and legal rights.
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擁有合法的租約跟權益
06:43
'Once you have stayed here,' he said,
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他說 你一旦在這邊住過
06:46
'you can stay for the rest of your life.'"
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你就可以在這裡終老了
06:50
So, he has hope, and this is where these communities start.
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所以他有希望 這種社區也是這樣開始的
06:55
This is perhaps the most primitive shanty that you can find in Kibera,
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這大概是基貝拉可以找到最原始的鐵皮屋了
07:00
little more than a stick-and-mud hut next to a garbage heap.
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差不多就是垃圾堆旁的一根木棍跟泥塊組成的
07:05
This is getting ready for the monsoon in Bombay, India.
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這是為印度孟買的梅雨季做的準備
07:08
This is home improvement:
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這是家居裝修
07:10
putting plastic tarps on your roof.
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在屋頂上蓋一些塑膠蓬布
07:14
This is in Rio de Janeiro, and it's getting a bit better, right?
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這是里約熱內盧 稍微好一點 對吧
07:18
We're seeing scavenged terra cotta tile and little pieces of signs,
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我們看到的是零碎的瓦片 跟小塊的招牌
07:24
and plaster over the brick, some color,
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磚塊上抹過泥灰 塗上了顏色
07:27
and this is Sulay Montakaya's house in Sultanbelyi, and it's getting even better.
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這是蘇瑞蒙塔卡亞的家 在蘇丹貝利 狀況更好了
07:32
He's got a fence; he scavenged a door;
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他有圍牆 還有一塊破破的門板
07:34
he's got new tile on the roof.
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他的屋頂上有新的瓦磚
07:37
And then you get Rocinha
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然後再來看看荷西尼亞
07:39
and you can see that it's getting even better.
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看的出來 更優渥了
07:43
The buildings here are multi-story.
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這些建築物不只一樓高
07:45
They develop -- you can see on the far right
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在遠端右側可以看到
07:48
one where it seems to just stack on top of each other,
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他們發展一個個堆疊起來的建築
07:51
room, after room, after room.
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屋子上的屋子 一間又一間
07:53
And what people do is they develop their home on one or two stories,
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這邊的住家由一到兩層樓組成
07:57
and they sell their loggia or roof rights,
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然後販售自家陽台或屋頂的使用權
08:00
and someone else builds on top of their building,
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然後就有人在他們加樓上蓋房子
08:01
and then that person sells the roof rights,
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然後那個人再販售他的屋頂使用權
08:03
and someone else builds on top of their building.
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下一個人就會在他的屋頂上在疊造另一個建築物
08:05
All of these buildings are made out of reinforced concrete and brick.
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這些建築全都是鋼筋混凝土跟磚塊蓋的
08:09
And then you get Sultanbelyi, in Turkey, where it's even built
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我們來看土耳其的蘇丹貝里
08:13
to a higher level of design.
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這裡的建築設計等級又更高了
08:14
The crud in the front is mattress stuffing,
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前面的那一團是床墊的填塞物
08:17
and you see that all over Turkey.
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整個土耳其都看的到這東西
08:19
People dry out or air out their mattress stuffing on their roofs.
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大家在屋頂上曝曬床墊填塞物
08:23
But the green building, on behind,
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但是在後面的綠色建築物
08:25
you can see that the top floor is not occupied,
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你會發現那頂樓是空的
08:27
so people are building with the possibility of expansion.
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所以那邊可能有擴建的可能
08:30
And it's built to a pretty high standard of design.
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其實建築的設計性挺高的
08:33
And then you finally get squatter homes like this,
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最後你會看到這種的貧民住宅
08:35
which is built on the suburban model.
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根據都市郊區建築為模型
08:37
Hey, that's a single family home in the squatter community.
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那是貧民社區裡的獨棟住宅
08:40
That's also in Istanbul, Turkey.
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同樣位於土耳其 伊斯坦堡
08:42
They're quite vital places, these communities.
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這都是很關鍵的區域 這種社區
08:44
This is the main drag of Rocinha, the Estrada da Gavea,
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這是荷西尼亞的中心地帶-伊斯塔爾達 達蓋維亞
08:48
and there's a bus route that runs through it,
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有一路公車行經這區塊
08:50
lots of people out on the street.
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很多人在街道上
08:52
These communities in these cities are actually more vital
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對都會而言 這類社區比起
08:55
than the illegal communities.
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非法社區更加重要
08:57
They have more things going on in them.
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這裡的活動比較多
09:00
This is a typical pathway in Rocinha called a "beco" --
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這是荷西尼亞的典型道路 叫做 beco
09:03
these are how you get around the community.
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社區裡的道路都是這模樣
09:05
It's on very steep ground.
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非常陡峭的地勢
09:07
They're built on the hills, inland from the beaches in Rio,
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它們築在山丘上 跟里約的沙灘比起來算是內陸
09:10
and you can see that the houses are just cantilevered over the natural obstructions.
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你可以看到房子懸在天然障礙物上
09:14
So, that's just a rock in the hillside.
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像是山丘上的岩石
09:16
And these becos are normally very crowded,
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還有這種 因為太壅擠了
09:20
and people hump furniture up them, or refrigerators up them,
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人們把家具或是冰箱都扛上去
09:23
all sorts of things.
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各式各樣都有
09:25
Beer is all carried in on your shoulders.
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啤酒也是靠雙肩扛上去的
09:27
Beer is a very important thing in Brazil.
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在巴西 啤酒非常的重要
09:30
This is commerce in Kenya, right along the train tracks,
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這是肯亞的商業區 沿著火車鐵軌
09:35
so close to the train tracks that the merchants
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距離鐵軌相當近 所以商人
09:37
sometimes have to pull the merchandise out of the way.
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有時候還得把商品移開
09:40
This is a marketplace, also in Kenya, Toi Market,
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這是市集 也是在肯亞 托伊市集
09:43
lots of dealers, in almost everything you want to buy.
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很多商人 商品應有盡有
09:47
Those green things in the foreground are mangoes.
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前景看到的這些綠色東西是芒果
09:50
This is a shopping street in Kibera,
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這是位於基貝拉的購物街
09:52
and you can see that there's a soda dealer, a health clinic,
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這邊可以看的一個賣汽水的小販 還有診所
09:57
two beauty salons, a bar, two grocery stores, and a church, and more.
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兩家美容院 兩家雜貨店 一間教堂 還有其他的
10:02
It's a typical downtown street; it just happens to be self-built.
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這是典型的市區街道 自行演化而成的
10:07
This here, on the right-hand side,
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右邊這個
10:10
is what's called a -- if you look at the fine print under the awning --
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就是我們說的 如果你看一下遮陽板上的印刷
10:13
it's a hotel.
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就是飯店
10:15
And what hotel means, in Kenya and India, is an eating-place.
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肯亞跟印度一樣 飯店指的是吃飯的地方
10:21
So, that's a restaurant.
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所以這其實是餐館
10:23
People steal electrical power -- this is Rio.
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在里約 電會被偷接
10:25
People tap in and they have thieves who are called "grillos" or "crickets,"
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他們從這裡接電 這些小偷又叫做蟋蟀
10:32
and they steal the electrical power
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他們偷接電
10:34
and wire the neighborhood.
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給周遭鄰居
10:36
People burn trash to get rid of the garbage,
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清除垃圾的方法就是放火燒
10:39
and they dig their own sewer channels.
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他們也自己挖污水溝
10:43
Talk about more plastic bags than plankton.
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說說這些比浮游生物還多的塑膠袋
10:46
And sometimes they have natural trash-disposal.
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有時候也有天然的垃圾處理法
10:50
And when they have more money they cement their streets,
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當生活好一點的時候 就會鋪水泥路
10:53
and they put in sewers and good water pipes, and stuff like that.
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在安裝污水溝更新水管之類的
10:57
This is water going to Rio. People run their water pipes all over the place,
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這是接到里約的水管 水管接的到處都是
11:03
and that little hut right there has a pump in it, and that's what people do:
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那邊的小屋裏頭有個泵 他們都是這樣用的
11:06
they steal electricity; they install a pump
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偷接電 然後安裝泵
11:08
and they tap into the water main, and pump water up to their houses.
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然後再把水引到房屋
11:12
So, the question is how do you go from the mud-hut village,
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問題是泥磚小屋如何
11:18
to the more developed city, to the even highly developed Sultanbelyi?
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演化為先進的都市 甚至跟蘇丹貝里一樣先進
11:23
I say there are two things.
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我覺得有兩個要點
11:25
One is people need a guarantee they won't be evicted.
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一個是住戶要有不會被迫搬遷的保障
11:27
That does not necessarily mean property rights,
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這不一定指不動產擁有權
11:29
and I would disagree with Hernando de Soto on that question,
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就這方面 我跟赫南度迪梭托的看法不一
11:33
because property rights create a lot of complications.
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因為不動產所有權會帶來很多問題
11:35
They're most often sold to people, and people then wind up in debt
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買主往往在買了不動產之後就負債
11:39
and have to pay back the debt,
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然後就得籌錢償債
11:41
and sometimes have to sell their property
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有時候就得賣掉他們的不動產
11:43
in order to pay back the debt.
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來償還債務
11:45
There's a whole variety of other reasons why property rights
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有很多種理由 導致不動產權
11:47
sometimes don't work in these cases,
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在這種狀況中失去意義
11:49
but they do need security of tenure.
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但是他們確實需要有保障的居住期限
11:51
And they need access to politics, and that can mean two things.
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他們也需要參與政治 這有兩種意義
11:55
That can mean community organizing from below,
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可以是社區由下而上的組織
11:59
but it can also mean possibilities from above.
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或是由上而下
12:02
And I say that because the system in Turkey is notable.
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這在土耳其的系統裡一目了然
12:07
Turkey has two great laws that protect squatters.
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土耳其有兩個很棒的法律保障貧民
12:09
One is that -- it's called "gecekondu" in Turkish,
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一個在土耳其文叫做 geckondu
12:12
which means "built overnight," and if you build your house overnight
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代表徹夜打造 在土耳其 如果你在一夜之間蓋好房子
12:16
in Turkey, you can't be evicted without due process of law,
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當晚也沒有人舉發你
12:20
if they don't catch you during the night.
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就沒有人能經由法律途徑驅逐你
12:23
And the second aspect is that once you have 2,000 people
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第二個原因則是 當一個社區
12:27
in the community, you can petition the government
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有兩千個人的時候 就可以跟政府請願
12:29
to be recognized as a legal sub-municipality.
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要求被承認為一個合法的附屬行政區
12:33
And when you're a legal sub-municipality, you suddenly have politics.
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成為一個合法的附屬行政區之後 就會產生政治
12:36
You're allowed to have an elected government, collect taxes,
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可以有民選政府 也可以徵收稅款
12:38
provide municipal services, and that's exactly what they do.
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來提供行政區的服務 他們採取的正是這種方法
12:42
So, these are the civic leaders of the future.
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這些人是未來的民意領袖
12:46
The woman in the center is Geeta Jiwa.
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在中間的這位女士 是 姬塔齊瓦
12:47
She lives in one of those tents on the highway median in Mumbai.
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他住在孟買高速公路旁的帳篷裡
12:53
That's Sureka Gundi; she also lives with her family
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這是蘇芮卡甘地 他跟家人一起住在
12:55
on the tent along the same highway median.
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同一條高速公路旁的帳篷裡
12:57
They're very outspoken. They're very active.
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她們直言不諱 非常活躍
12:59
They can be community leaders.
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他們可以當社區領袖
13:02
This woman is Nine, which means "grandma" in Turkish.
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這個女人叫做 Nine 土耳其文的意思是奶奶
13:05
And there were three old ladies who lived in --
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那邊曾經住了三個老太太
13:07
that's her self-built house behind her -- and they've lived there for 30 or 40 years,
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她身後的房子是自建的 他們已經住了30 40年了
13:12
and they are the backbone of the community there.
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他們是這社區的支柱
13:15
This is Richard Muthama Peter,
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這位是理查牧塔瑪彼得
13:17
and he is an itinerant street photographer in Kibera.
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他是基貝拉的街頭攝影師
13:20
He makes money taking pictures of the neighborhood,
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他以拍攝社區
13:23
and the people in the neighborhood,
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及居民的照片維生
13:25
and is a great resource in the community.
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他也是社區裡重要資源
13:27
And finally my choice to run for mayor of Rio is Cezinio,
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最後是席季尼歐 我支持他競選里約市長
13:31
the fruit merchant with his two kids here,
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一個水果商跟他的兩個小孩
13:33
and a more honest and giving and caring man I don't know.
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我沒認識比他更誠實 大方 又溫暖的人了
13:38
The future of these communities is in the people
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這些社區的未來在這些人的手上
13:40
and in our ability to work with those people.
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也決定於我們跟他們的合作能力
13:44
So, I think the message I take, from what I read from the book,
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從書上得知的 如同阿姆斯壯
13:48
from what Armstrong said, and from all these people,
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以及所有人所說
13:50
is that these are neighborhoods.
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這些是確確實實的社區
13:52
The issue is not urban poverty.
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問題的所在 不是都市貧窮
13:54
The issue is not the larger, over-arching thing.
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也不在於這議題涵蓋的面積有多大多廣
13:57
The issue is for us to recognize that these are neighborhoods --
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真正的問題在於我們如何看待這些社區
14:00
this is a legitimate form of urban development --
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這是合理的都市發展
14:03
and that cities have to engage these residents,
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而都市必須納入這些居民
14:06
because they are building the cities of the future.
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因為他們打造的是未來的都市
14:09
Thank you very much.
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謝謝大家
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Robert Neuwirth - AuthorRobert Neuwirth’s writings on the street-level reality of the developing world have opened a new dialogue on development and economics.
Why you should listen
For too many people in the world, Robert Neuwirth suggests, the world's globalized economic system has turned out to be a capitalism of decay. Only by embracing true sharing strategies, he argues, can people develop an equitable vision of the future.
Neuwirth is the author of two previous books: Stealth of Nations (2011), on the global growth of the street markets and cross-border smuggling, and Shadow Cities (2005), on the power of squatter communities and shantytowns. His work has appeared in documentary films, on radio and television, and in many publications. In addition to writing, he has taught at Rikers Island, New York City’s jail, and at Columbia University’s Graduate School of Journalism.
Robert Neuwirth | Speaker | TED.com