ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Andrew Forrest - Entrepreneur
Andrew "Twiggy" Forrest is an Australian businessman, philanthropist and entrepreneur, widely considered one of the country’s greatest change agents.

Why you should listen

As founder and chairman of Fortescue Metals Group, Andrew Forrest has led the company from inception to a market capitalisation of more than AU$30billion. In 2001, he co-founded Minderoo Foundation with his wife Nicola, and he's since donated more than AU$1.5 billion to its core initiatives and more than 280 causes around the world. Never daunted by the scale of a challenge, Forrest devotes his relentless energy to tackling some of the world’s greatest problems, including Indigenous disparity, modern slavery and cancer.

But it is Forrest's most recent pursuit -- a PhD in Marine Ecology -- that led him to the TED stage. Driven by a lifelong love for the oceans, Forrest studied marine life and, along the way, encountered the destructive impacts of ocean plastic pollution, which he is now striving to apprehend. 

More profile about the speaker
Andrew Forrest | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com
We the Future

Andrew Forrest: A radical plan to end plastic waste

安德魯福雷斯特: 終止廢棄塑膠的徹底變革計畫

Filmed:
1,981,991 views

企業家安德魯福雷斯特說,對經濟來說,塑膠是一種很了不起的物質-對環境來說則是最糟糕的物質。在這場應該會觸發辯論的演說中,福雷斯特和 TED 策展人克里斯安德森討論了一個很有野心的計畫,讓世界上最大的公司來資助一項環境革命-並將產業轉變,從回收材料取得所有塑膠,而非化石燃料。
- Entrepreneur
Andrew "Twiggy" Forrest is an Australian businessman, philanthropist and entrepreneur, widely considered one of the country’s greatest change agents. Full bio - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:13
Chris克裡斯 Anderson安德森: So, you've been
obsessed痴迷 with this problem問題
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克里斯安德森:過去幾年間
你都投入在這個問題上。
00:15
for the last few少數 years年份.
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00:17
What is the problem問題, in your own擁有 words?
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用你的話來說,問題是什麼?
00:19
Andrew安德魯 Forrest福雷斯特: Plastic塑料.
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安德魯福雷斯特:
塑膠。就這麼簡單。
00:21
Simple簡單 as that.
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我們對塑膠並沒有發揮
00:23
Our inability無力 to use it for the tremendous巨大
energetic有活力 commodity商品 that it is,
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充分再利用的能力,
00:30
and just throw it away.
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只會把它們丟了。
00:32
CACA: And so we see waste浪費 everywhere到處.
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克:所以到處可見浪費。
00:35
At its extreme極端, it looks容貌 a bit like this.
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最極端的狀況看起來
有點像是這樣。
00:38
I mean, where was this picture圖片 taken採取?
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這張照片是在哪裡拍的?
00:40
AFAf: That's in the Philippines菲律賓,
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安:是在菲律賓。
00:42
and you know, there's a lot of rivers河流,
ladies女士們 and gentlemen紳士,
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各位先生女士,在那裡,
有很多像這樣的河流。
00:45
which哪一個 look exactly究竟 like that.
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那是菲律賓。所以,
在東南亞到處都是。
00:46
And that's the Philippines菲律賓.
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00:47
So it's all over Southeast東南 Asia亞洲.
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00:49
CACA: So plastic塑料 is thrown拋出 into the rivers河流,
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克:所以塑膠被丟入河中,當然,
00:51
and from there, of course課程,
it ends結束 up in the ocean海洋.
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最後會流入海洋。
00:54
I mean, we obviously明顯
see it on the beaches海灘,
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很顯然,我們在海灘上
都會看到塑膠,
00:58
but that's not even your main主要 concern關心.
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但你最關心的議題並不是這個。
01:01
It's what's actually其實 happening事件 to it
in the oceans海洋. Talk about that.
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是它們在海洋中會如何。
跟我們談談這點。
01:04
AFAf: OK, so look. Thank you, Chris克裡斯.
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安:好。謝謝你,克里斯。
01:07
About four years年份 ago,
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大約四年前,我……
01:08
I thought I'd do something
really barking叫聲 crazy,
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想要做件非常瘋狂的事,
01:11
and I committed提交 to do a PhD博士
in marine海洋 ecology生態.
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我決定去攻讀海洋生態博士學位。
01:16
And the scary害怕 part部分 about that was,
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比較可怕的部分在於,
01:19
sure, I learned學到了 a lot about marine海洋 life,
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的確,我學到很多海洋的生命,
但卻學到更多海洋的死亡,
01:21
but it taught me more about marine海洋 death死亡
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01:23
and the extreme極端 mass
ecological生態 fatality病死率 of fish,
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以及很極端的大量生態死亡,
包括魚類、海洋生物、
海洋哺乳類,
01:30
of marine海洋 life, marine海洋 mammals哺乳動物,
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01:32
very close biology生物學 to us,
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和我們非常近親的生物,
01:34
which哪一個 are dying垂死 in the millions百萬
if not trillions萬億 that we can't count計數
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死亡的數目到達上兆,
要不是死了這麼多,
01:39
at the hands of plastic塑料.
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我們都還不知道兇手竟是塑膠。
01:40
CACA: But people think of plastic塑料
as ugly醜陋 but stable穩定. Right?
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克:但人們認為塑膠
雖然醜陋但很穩定,對吧?
01:44
You throw something in the ocean海洋,
"Hey, it'll它會 just sit there forever永遠.
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你把塑膠丟到海洋中:
「嘿,它會永遠待在那裡。
01:48
Can't do any damage損傷, right?"
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不會造成傷害吧?」
01:49
AFAf: See, Chris克裡斯, it's an incredible難以置信
substance物質 designed設計 for the economy經濟.
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安:克里斯,
對經濟而言,設計出塑膠
這種物質是很了不起的。
01:56
It is the worst最差 substance物質 possible可能
for the environment環境.
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但對環境而言,它是最糟糕的物質。
02:01
The worst最差 thing about plastics塑料,
as soon不久 as it hits點擊 the environment環境,
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塑膠最糟糕的一點是,
當它們進入到環境中,
02:04
is that it fragments片段.
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它們會破碎掉。
02:07
It never stops停止 being存在 plastic塑料.
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它們永遠都會是塑膠。
02:09
It breaks休息 down smaller
and smaller and smaller,
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它們會碎成越來越小塊,
02:12
and the breaking破壞 science科學 on this, Chris克裡斯,
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克里斯,關於這點
有個驚人的科學,
02:15
which哪一個 we've我們已經 known已知 in marine海洋 ecology生態
for a few少數 years年份 now,
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在海洋生態學領域
我們幾年前就知道了,
02:17
but it's going to hit擊中 humans人類.
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但它將會衝擊人類。
02:19
We are aware知道的 now that nanoplastic納米塑膠,
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我們現在知道奈米塑膠,
02:23
the very, very small particles粒子 of plastic塑料,
carrying攜帶 their negative charge收費,
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也就是非常小的塑膠粒子,
會帶負電,
02:27
can go straight直行 through通過
the pores毛孔 of your skin皮膚.
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直接穿過你皮膚上的毛孔。
02:31
That's not the bad news新聞.
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那還不是壞消息。壞消息是,
02:32
The bad news新聞 is that it goes
straight直行 through通過 the blood-brain血腦屏障 barrier屏障,
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它們會直接穿越血腦內的屏障,
02:37
that protective保護的 coating塗層 which哪一個 is there
to protect保護 your brain.
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也就是保護你大腦的障壁。
大腦是一塊沒有固定形狀的
濕物體,充滿了小小的電荷。
02:40
Your brain's大腦的 a little amorphous非晶, wet mass
full充分 of little electrical電動 charges收費.
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02:44
You put a negative particle粒子 into that,
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你腦內跑進了負電粒子,
02:47
particularly尤其 a negative particle粒子
which哪一個 can carry攜帶 pathogens病原體 --
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特別是帶有
病原體的負電粒子——
02:50
so you have a negative charge收費,
it attracts吸引 positive-charge正電荷 elements分子,
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負電菏會吸引正電荷的元素,
02:54
like pathogens病原體, toxins毒素,
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比如病原體、毒物、
02:57
mercury, lead.
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銀、鉛。
02:58
That's the breaking破壞 science科學
we're going to see in the next下一個 12 months個月.
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在接下來的十二個月,
我們就會看到這項科學新知。
03:01
CACA: So already已經 I think you told me
that there's like 600 plastic塑料 bags包裝袋 or so
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克:我想你有跟我說過,
對每一條那種大小的魚,
就有大約六百個塑膠袋。
03:05
for every一切 fish that size尺寸
in the ocean海洋, something like that.
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03:09
And they're breaking破壞 down,
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它們在瓦解,
03:12
and there's going to be ever more of them,
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且將來會有更多,
我們還沒有開始看到後果。
03:14
and we haven't沒有 even seen看到 the start開始
of the consequences後果 of that.
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安:沒有,還沒看到。
03:17
AFAf: No, we really haven't沒有.
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03:18
The Ellen艾倫 MacArthur麥克阿瑟 Foundation基礎,
they're a bunch of good scientists科學家們,
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艾倫麥克阿瑟基金會,
他們是一群很棒的科學家,
03:22
we've我們已經 been working加工 with them for a while.
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我們和他們合作了一陣子。
03:24
I've completely全然 verified驗證 their work.
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完全驗證了他們的研究。
03:26
They say there will be
one ton of plastic塑料, Chris克裡斯,
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克里斯,他們說,每三噸魚類
就會有一噸塑膠,
不是 2050 年的預測——
03:28
for every一切 three tons
of fish by, not 2050 --
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03:31
and I really get impatient不耐煩 with people
who talk about 2050 -- by 2025.
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我對談 2050 年的人很沒耐心——
是 2025 年的預測。
03:35
That's around the corner.
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很快就要到了。
03:37
That's just the here and now.
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近在咫尺了。
03:39
You don't need one ton of plastic塑料
to completely全然 wipe擦拭 out marine海洋 life.
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不用一噸的塑膠就可以
讓海洋生命完全消失。
03:42
Less than that is going
to do a fine job工作 at it.
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不用那麼多塑膠
就可以辦到且做得很好。
03:45
So we have to end結束 it straightaway馬上.
We've我們已經 got no time.
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所以我們得馬上阻止它。
我們沒有時間了。
03:50
CACA: OK, so you have an idea理念 for ending結尾 it,
and you're coming未來 at this
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克:好,所以你有點子可以
阻止它,且你在處理這件事
03:54
not as a typical典型 environmental環境的
campaigner活動家, I would say,
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扮演的角色不是
典型的環境活動家,
03:57
but as a businessman商人,
as an entrepreneur企業家, who has lived生活 --
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而是生意人、企業家,曾經——
04:00
you've spent花費 your whole整個 life thinking思維
about global全球 economic經濟 systems系統
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你一生都在思考全球經濟系統,
04:04
and how they work.
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以及它們如何運作。
04:05
And if I understand理解 it right,
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如果我的理解正確,
04:07
your idea理念 depends依靠 on heroes英雄
who look something like this.
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你的點子要仰賴
像這樣子的英雄。
04:13
What's her profession職業?
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她的職業是什麼?
04:15
AFAf: She, Chris克裡斯, is a ragpicker碎石機,
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安:克里斯,她是撿破爛的人,
04:18
and there were 15, 20 million百萬
ragpickers拾荒者 like her,
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曾經有一千五百萬
或兩千萬個像她這樣的人,
04:22
until直到 China中國 stopped停止 taking服用
everyone's大家的 waste浪費.
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後來中國不再接收大家的廢物。
04:26
And the price價錢 of plastic塑料,
minuscule微不足道 that it was, collapsed倒塌.
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塑膠的價格本來就很低,
之後就暴跌了。
04:30
That led to people like her,
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導致像她這樣的人,
04:32
which哪一個, now -- she is a child兒童
who is a schoolchild小學生.
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現在——她是個孩子,學童。
04:37
She should be at school學校.
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她應該要上學的。
04:38
That's probably大概 very akin類似的 to slavery奴隸制度.
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那和奴隸制度差不多了。
04:40
My daughter女兒 Grace恩典 and I have met會見
hundreds數以百計 of people like her.
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我女兒葛雷絲和我見過
數百名像她這樣的人。
04:43
CACA: And there are many許多 adults成年人 as well,
literally按照字面 millions百萬 around the world世界,
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克:還有許多成人,
全世界有數百萬名,
在一些產業中,
他們其實造成了,比如,
04:47
and in some industries行業,
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04:48
they actually其實 account帳戶
for the fact事實 that, for example,
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我們在世界上不會
看到很多金屬廢棄物。
04:51
we don't see a lot
of metal金屬 waste浪費 in the world世界.
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安:沒錯。
04:53
AFAf: That's exactly究竟 right.
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04:54
That little girl女孩 is, in fact事實,
the hero英雄 of the environment環境.
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事實上,那個女孩是環境的英雄。
04:57
She's in competition競爭 with
a great big petrochemical石化 plant
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她在和同一條路上的
大型石化工廠競爭,
05:01
which哪一個 is just down the road,
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05:02
the three-and-a-half-billion-dollar35億美元
petrochemical石化 plant.
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一間三十五億美金的
石化工廠。那就是問題。
05:05
That's the problem問題.
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我們在塑膠和垃圾
掩埋場中的石油和天然氣,
05:06
We've我們已經 got more oil and gas加油站
in plastic塑料 and landfill垃圾填埋場
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05:11
than we have in the entire整個 oil and gas加油站
resources資源 of the United聯合的 States狀態.
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比美國所有的石油
和天然氣資源還要多。
05:15
So she is the hero英雄.
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所以她是英雄。
05:17
And that's what that landfill垃圾填埋場 looks容貌 like,
ladies女士們 and gentlemen紳士,
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各位先生女士,
這就是垃圾掩埋場的模樣,
05:20
and it's solid固體 oil and gas加油站.
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那是很實在的石油和天然氣。
05:22
CACA: So there's huge巨大 value
potentially可能 locked鎖定 up in there
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克:所以在那裡藏著很高的價值,
05:26
that the world's世界 ragpickers拾荒者 would,
if they could, make a living活的 from.
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如果能的話,世界上揀破爛的人
可以靠這裡維持生計。
05:30
But why can't they?
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但為什麼不能?
05:33
AFAf: Because we have ingrained根深蒂固 in us
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安:因為我們對於
來自化石燃料的塑膠
05:36
a price價錢 of plastic塑料 from fossil化石 fuels燃料,
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有個根深蒂固的價格,
05:40
which哪一個 sits坐鎮 just under what it takes
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它剛好就低於
能經濟地、有利潤地從塑膠
回收塑膠所要花的價值。
05:44
to economically經濟 and profitably盈利
recycle回收 plastic塑料 from plastic塑料.
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05:49
See, all plastic塑料 is
is building建造 blocks from oil and gas加油站.
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所有的塑膠都是
石油和天然氣的基礎材料。
05:54
Plastic's塑膠製品 100 percent百分 polymer聚合物,
which哪一個 is 100 percent百分 oil and gas加油站.
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塑膠是 100% 的聚合物,
聚合物是 100% 的石油和天然氣。
05:58
And you know we've我們已經 got
enough足夠 plastic塑料 in the world世界
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你知道在世界上有足夠的塑膠
能滿足我們所有的需求。
06:00
for all our needs需求.
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06:01
And when we recycle回收 plastic塑料,
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當我們回收塑膠時,
06:04
if we can't recycle回收 it cheaper便宜
than fossil化石 fuel汽油 plastic塑料,
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如果我們無法讓回收塑膠價格
比化石燃料塑膠還低,
06:07
then, of course課程, the world世界
just sticks to fossil化石 fuel汽油 plastic塑料.
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當然全世界還是會
繼續用化石燃料塑膠。
06:10
CACA: So that's the fundamental基本的 problem問題,
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克:所以,那是根本的問題,
06:12
the price價錢 of recycled回收 plastic塑料
is usually平時 more
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回收塑膠的價格通常比較高,
06:17
than the price價錢 of just buying購買
it made製作 fresh新鮮 from more oil.
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高於購買直接從石油製造的塑膠。
06:21
That's the fundamental基本的 problem問題.
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那就是根本的問題。
06:23
AFAf: A slight輕微 tweak
of the rules規則 here, Chris克裡斯.
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安:這裡要稍微
扭轉一下規則,克里斯。
06:26
I'm a commodity商品 person.
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我是做商品的人。
06:28
I understand理解 that we used to have
scrap廢料 metal金屬 and rubbish垃圾 iron
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我知道我們以前
在村落各處都可以見到
廢金屬、不要的鐵,還有一些銅,
06:35
and bits of copper lying說謊
all round回合 the villages村莊,
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06:38
particularly尤其 in the developing發展 world世界.
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特別是在開發中世界。
06:40
And people worked工作 out it's got a value.
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大家發現它們是有價值的。
06:41
It's actually其實 an article文章 of value,
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它們是有價值的物品,
06:45
not of waste浪費.
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不是廢棄物。
06:46
Now the villages村莊 and the cities城市
and the streets街道 are clean清潔,
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村落、城市、街道現在都很乾淨,
06:49
you don't trip over scrap廢料 copper
or scrap廢料 iron now,
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現在你不會被廢銅或廢鐵給絆倒,
06:54
because it's an article文章 of value,
it gets得到 recycled回收.
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因為它們是有價值的物品,
它們會被回收。
06:57
CACA: So what's your idea理念, then,
to try to change更改 that in plastics塑料?
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克:所以,你有什麼點子
可以改變塑膠的狀況?
07:03
AFAf: OK, so Chris克裡斯,
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安:好,所以,克里斯,
07:04
for most part部分 of that PhD博士,
I've been doing research研究.
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攻讀博士學位時,
我一直在做研究。
07:08
And the good thing about being存在
a businessperson商人 who's誰是 doneDONE OK at it
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身為生意做的不錯的
生意人,有一個好處,
07:12
is that people want to see you.
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就是其他生意人會願意見你。
07:14
Other businesspeople生意人,
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即使你有點像是他們會
想要看看的動物園物種,
07:15
even if you're kind of a bit of a zoo動物園
animal動物 species種類 they'd他們會 like to check out,
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他們會說,好,我們就來見見
崔姬(綽號)福雷斯特。
07:19
they'll他們會 say, yeah, OK,
we'll all meet遇到 Twiggy特維吉 Forrest福雷斯特.
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07:21
And so once一旦 you're in there,
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一旦你進去了,你就能質問他們。
07:23
you can interrogate審問 them.
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07:25
And I've been to most of the oil and gas加油站
and fast-moving快速移動 consumer消費者 good companies公司
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我去過全世界大部分
石油和天然氣及快速流動
消費性商品公司,
07:31
in the world世界,
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07:32
and there is a real真實 will to change更改.
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他們真的有想改變的意願。
07:35
I mean, there's a couple一對 of dinosaurs恐龍
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還是有一些恐龍,
07:37
who are going to hope希望
for the best最好 and do nothing,
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希望有最好的結果但什麼都不做,
07:40
but there's a real真實 will to change更改.
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但真的還是有想改變的意願。
07:42
So what I've been discussing討論 is,
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所以,我一直在討論的是,
07:43
the seven and a half billion十億
people in the world世界
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全世界七十五億人
07:47
don't actually其實 deserve值得 to have
their environment環境 smashed被砸 by plastic塑料,
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不應該得到一個
被塑膠搗毀的環境,
07:51
their oceans海洋 rendered呈現 depauperate德帕佩率
or barren荒蕪 of sea life because of plastic塑料.
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因為塑膠,我們的海洋產生出
衰弱或不孕的海洋生命。
07:56
So you come down that chain,
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沿著產業鏈追下去,
07:57
and there's tens of thousands數千 of brands品牌
which哪一個 we all buy購買 heaps of products製品 from,
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有數萬個我們會購買的品牌與塑膠有關,
08:02
but then there's only a hundred
major重大的 resin樹脂 producers生產商,
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但只有一百個主要的樹脂生產者,
08:05
big petrochemical石化 plants植物,
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大型石化廠,
08:07
that spew out all the plastic塑料
which哪一個 is single use.
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製造出所有只用過一次的塑膠。
08:10
CACA: So one hundred companies公司
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克:所以,一百間公司
位在這個食物鏈的根基處。
08:11
are right at the base基礎
of this food餐飲 chain, as it were.
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安:是的。
08:14
AFAf: Yeah.
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08:15
CACA: And so what do you need
those one hundred companies公司 to do?
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克:所以你需要
這一百家公司做什麼?
08:18
AFAf: OK, so we need them
to simply只是 raise提高 the value
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安:好,我們只需要
他們提高基礎材料的價值,
08:23
of the building建造 blocks of plastic塑料
from oil and gas加油站,
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來自石油和天然氣的
基礎材料的價值,
08:26
which哪一個 I call "bad plastic塑料,"
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我稱這些塑膠為「不好的塑膠」,
08:28
raise提高 the value of that,
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提高它們的價值,
08:30
so that when it spreads利差 through通過 the brands品牌
and onto us, the customers顧客,
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所以當這些塑膠透過品牌
散播到我們客人這裡時,
08:33
we won't慣於 barely僅僅 even notice注意
an increase增加 in our coffee咖啡 cup杯子
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我們幾乎不會注意到
我們的咖啡杯有一點點漲價,
08:38
or Coke可樂 or Pepsi百事可樂, or anything.
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或者可樂,或者任何東西。
08:41
CACA: Like, what, like a cent一分錢 extra額外?
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克:比如多一分錢美金?
08:43
AFAf: Less. Quarter25美分硬幣 of a cent一分錢, half a cent一分錢.
172
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安:更少。四分之一或半分錢。
08:45
It'll它會 be absolutely絕對 minimal最小.
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會是最微小的。
08:48
But what it does,
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但它的作用是,
08:49
it makes品牌 every一切 bit of plastic塑料
all over the world世界 an article文章 of value.
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它會讓全世界的每一塊塑膠
都變成有價值的物品。
08:54
Where you have the waste浪費 worst最差,
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在廢棄物問題最嚴重的地方,
08:57
say Southeast東南 Asia亞洲, India印度,
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比如東南亞、印度,
08:59
that's where the wealth財富 is most.
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那些地方的油水也最多。
09:01
CACA: OK, so it feels感覺 like
there's two parts部分 to this.
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克:好,所以聽起來有兩部分。
09:04
One is, if they will charge收費 more money
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第一,如果他們願意把價格定高一點,
09:08
but carve雕刻 out that excess過量
181
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但將多出來的部分拿出來
09:11
and pay工資 it -- into what? --
a fund基金 operated操作 by someone有人
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付給——什麼?——
某人運作的基金,
09:16
to tackle滑車 this problem問題 of -- what?
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用來處理這個問題——
09:18
What would that money be used for,
that they charge收費 the extra額外 for?
184
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額外收取的這些錢
會被拿來做什麼用途?
09:22
AFAf: So when I speak說話
to really big businesses企業,
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安:當我和非常大的企業談時,
09:24
I say, "Look, I need you to change更改,
and I need you to change更改 really fast快速,"
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我會說:「聽著,我需要你改變,
我需要你快速改變,」
09:28
their eyes眼睛 are going
to peel over in boredom無聊,
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他們的眼中就會流露出厭倦,
除非我說:「這是好生意。」
09:31
unless除非 I say, "And it's good business商業."
188
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09:33
"OK, now you've got my attention注意, Andrew安德魯."
189
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「好,你引起我的
注意了,安德魯。」
09:35
So I say, "Right, I need
you to make a contribution貢獻
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我會說:「我需要你對
環境及產業轉型基金做一點貢獻。
09:38
to an environmental環境的
and industry行業 transition過渡 fund基金.
191
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2536
09:41
Over two or three years年份,
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1435
經過二或三年,
09:42
the entire整個 global全球 plastics塑料 industry行業
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整個全球塑膠產業
09:44
can transition過渡 from getting得到
its building建造 blocks from fossil化石 fuel汽油
194
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4106
能成功轉型,本來是
從化石燃料取得基礎材料,
09:48
to getting得到 its building建造
blocks from plastic塑料.
195
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轉變成從塑膠取得基礎材料。
09:51
The technology技術 is out there.
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技術已經存在。已獲證實。」
09:52
It's proven證明."
197
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09:53
I've taken採取 two multibillion-dollar數十億美元
operations操作 from nothing,
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3477
我曾經從無到有建立起
兩間數十億美金價值的公司,
09:57
recognizing認識 that
the technology技術 can be scaled縮放.
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2819
因為我知道技術可以擴大規模。
10:00
I see at least最小 a dozen technologies技術
in plastic塑料 to handle處理 all types類型 of plastic塑料.
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我知道有十多種塑膠技術
可以處理各種塑膠。
10:04
So once一旦 those technologies技術
have an economic經濟 margin餘量,
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3552
一旦那些技術規模化後
有了經濟方面的利潤,
10:08
which哪一個 this gives them,
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這些技術會為他們帶來好處,
10:10
that's where the global全球 public上市
will get all their plastic塑料 from,
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接著全球大眾就會
從那裡取得塑膠,
10:13
from existing現有 plastic塑料.
204
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從既有塑膠取得。
10:15
CACA: So every一切 sale拍賣 of virgin處女 plastic塑料
contributes有助於 money to a fund基金
205
603455
4141
克:所以,凡是銷售初次使用的
塑膠,要對基金貢獻一點錢,
10:19
that is used to basically基本上
transition過渡 the industry行業
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2834
基本上,基金會被用來轉型產業,
10:22
and start開始 to pay工資 for things
like cleanup清理 and other pieces.
207
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並開始支付其它工作,
比如清理塑膠等等。
10:25
AFAf: Absolutely絕對. Absolutely絕對.
208
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安:沒錯。沒錯。
10:26
CACA: And it has
the incredible難以置信 side benefit效益,
209
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2012
克:這會帶來很好的邊際利益,
10:28
which哪一個 is maybe even the main主要 benefit效益,
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1781
還有可能是主要利益,
10:30
of creating創建 a market市場.
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創造出另一種市場的概念。
10:31
It suddenly突然 makes品牌 recyclable可回收 plastic塑料
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3132
突然間,回收塑膠會變成
10:35
a giant巨人 business商業 that can unlock開鎖
millions百萬 of people around the world世界
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4589
一個巨型產業,讓全世界數百萬人
透過塑膠回收
找到新的賺錢方式。
10:39
to find a new living活的 collecting蒐集 it.
214
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1841
10:41
AFAf: Yeah, exactly究竟.
215
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1153
安:沒錯。
10:42
So all you do is, you've got fossil化石
fuel汽油 plastics塑料 at this value
216
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4524
所以,要做的就是,
化石燃料塑膠是這個價值,
10:47
and recycled回收 plastic塑料 at this value.
217
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2057
而回收塑膠則是這個價值。
10:49
You change更改 it.
218
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1313
改變它。
10:50
So recycled回收 plastic塑料 is cheaper便宜.
219
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2587
所以回收塑膠比較便宜。
10:53
What I love about this most, Chris克裡斯,
is that, you know,
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克里斯,關於這個方法
我最喜歡的一點是,
10:56
we waste浪費 into the environment環境
300, 350 million百萬 tons of plastic塑料.
221
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5551
我們已經把 3003.5 億噸的塑膠
棄至環境中浪費掉了。
11:02
On the oil and gas加油站 companies公司 own擁有 accounts賬戶,
222
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石油和天然氣公司它們自己有算過,
11:04
it's going to grow增長 to 500 million百萬 tons.
223
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2016
即將成長到五億噸。
11:07
This is an accelerating加速 problem問題.
224
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2428
這是個不斷在加速的問題。
11:09
But every一切 ton of that is polymer聚合物.
225
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3750
但每一噸都是聚合物。
11:13
Polymer聚合物 is 1,000 dollars美元,
1,500 dollars美元 a ton.
226
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3504
一噸聚合物算一千、
一千五百美金。
11:16
That's half a trillion dollars美元
which哪一個 could go into business商業
227
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4104
那就有五千億美金的生意可以做,
11:20
and could create創建 jobs工作 and opportunities機會
and wealth財富 right across橫過 the world世界,
228
668885
3539
可以在全世界創造
工作機會和財富,
11:24
particularly尤其 in the most impoverished貧困.
229
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1999
特別是在最窮困的地方。
但我們卻將之丟棄。
11:26
Yet然而 we throw it away.
230
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1257
11:27
CACA: So this would allow允許 the big companies公司
to invest投資 in recycling回收 plants植物
231
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3380
克:所以這會讓大公司
在世界各地有塑膠的地方
投資回收廠——
11:31
literally按照字面 all over the world世界 --
232
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1509
11:32
AFAf: All over the world世界.
233
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1152
安:在世界各地。
因為這項技術是低資本的,
11:33
Because the technology技術
is low-capital低資本 cost成本,
234
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可以把它放在廢棄場、
大飯店底下、垃圾場,任何地方,
11:35
you can put it in at rubbish垃圾 dumps轉儲,
at the bottom底部 of big hotels酒店,
235
683937
3037
11:38
garbage垃圾 depots車廠, everywhere到處,
236
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1302
將廢棄物轉換成樹脂。
11:40
turn that waste浪費 into resin樹脂.
237
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11:41
CACA: Now, you're a philanthropist慈善家,
238
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1598
克:你是個慈善家,
11:43
and you're ready準備 to commit承諾
some of your own擁有 wealth財富 to this.
239
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你已經準備好將自己的
部分財富投入在這裡。
11:46
What is the role角色 of philanthropy慈善事業
in this project項目?
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在這個計畫中,
慈善扮演的角色是?
11:48
AFAf: I think what we have to do
is kick in the 40 to 50 million百萬 US dollars美元
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安:我想我們能做的就是
先捐出四千到五千萬美金的初始基金,
11:52
to get it going,
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讓這個計畫動起來,
11:53
and then we have to create創建
absolute絕對 transparency透明度
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接著,我們得要創造出
絕對的透明度,
11:56
so everyone大家 can see
exactly究竟 what's going on.
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大家都能知道所有的狀況。
11:59
From the resin樹脂 producers生產商
to the brands品牌 to the consumers消費者,
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從樹脂生產者,
到品牌,到消費者,
12:02
everyone大家 gets得到 to see
who is playing播放 the game遊戲,
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大家都能知道有誰在參與遊戲、
12:05
who is protecting保護 the Earth地球,
and who doesn't care關心.
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誰在保護地球、誰不在乎。
12:07
And that'll那會 cost成本 about
a million百萬 dollars美元 a week,
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那每週會需要花費一百萬美金,
12:10
and we're going to underwrite包銷
that for five years年份.
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而我們將會承擔五年的費用。
大約要貢獻出三億美金。
12:12
Total contribution貢獻 is circa大約
300 million百萬 US dollars美元.
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12:15
CACA: Wow.
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克:哇。
12:16
Now --
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那——
12:18
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
12:23
You've talked to other companies公司,
like to the Coca-Colas可口可樂 of this world世界,
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你有跟其它公司談過,像是可口可樂,
12:26
who are willing願意 to do this,
they're willing願意 to pay工資 a higher更高 price價錢,
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他們願意這麼做,
願意付更高的價格,
12:29
they would like to pay工資 a higher更高 price價錢,
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他們願意付更高的價格,
只要是公平的。
12:31
so long as it's fair公平.
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12:32
AFAf: Yeah, it's fair公平.
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安:是的,這是公平的。是這樣的,
12:35
So, Coca-Cola可口可樂 wouldn't不會
like Pepsi百事可樂 to play ball
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可口可樂不會希望
百事可樂搞花樣,
12:38
unless除非 the whole整個 world世界 knew知道
that Pepsi百事可樂 wasn't playing播放 ball.
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除非全世界都知道
百事可樂沒有搞花樣。
12:41
Then they don't care關心.
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那他們就不在乎這多出來的成本。所以,
12:42
So it's that transparency透明度 of the market市場
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是市場的透明度,
12:45
where, if people try and cheat作弊 the system系統,
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如果有人嘗試欺騙系統,
12:47
the market市場 can see it,
the consumers消費者 can see it.
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市場會發現,消費者就會發現。
12:50
The consumers消費者 want a role角色 to play in this.
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消費者想要有一個角色可以扮演。
12:52
Seven and a half billion十億 of us.
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我們七十五億人。
12:53
We don't want our world世界 smashed被砸
by a hundred companies公司.
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我們不希望我們的世界
被一百間公司破壞。
12:56
CACA: Well, so tell us, you've said
what the companies公司 can do
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克:你已經說過這些公司能做什麼
以及你願意做什麼。
12:59
and what you're willing願意 to do.
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那聽眾能做什麼呢?
13:00
What can people listening do?
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13:02
AFAf: OK, so I would like all of us,
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安:好,我希望我們
所有人,全世界的人,
13:04
all around the world世界,
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13:05
to go a website網站 called noplasticwaste無塑膠廢物.org組織.
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到 noplasticwaste.org 這個網站。
13:08
You contact聯繫 your hundred resin樹脂 producers生產商
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去那裡聯絡你所屬地區的
一百間樹脂生產者。
13:10
which哪一個 are in your region地區.
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13:12
You will have at least最小 one
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至少會有一間
13:14
within an email電子郵件 or Twitter推特
or a telephone電話 contact聯繫 from you,
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是你可以用電子郵件、推特,
或電話聯絡到的,
13:18
and let them know that you would like them
to make a contribution貢獻 to a fund基金
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讓他們知道,
你希望他們對基金做一點貢獻,
13:23
which哪一個 industry行業 can manage管理
or the World世界 Bank銀行 can manage管理.
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由產業或世界銀行負責管理的基金。
13:26
It raises加薪 tens of billions數十億
of dollars美元 per year
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請他們把每年募集到的數百億美金
13:30
so you can transition過渡 the industry行業
to getting得到 all its plastic塑料 from plastic塑料,
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協助產業轉型,
從塑膠取得塑膠,
而非從化石燃料。
13:35
not from fossil化石 fuel汽油.
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13:36
We don't need that.
That's bad. This is good.
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我們不需要那種塑膠。
這種比較好。
13:38
And it can clean清潔 up the environment環境.
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環境會變得比較乾淨。
13:40
We've我們已經 got enough足夠 capital首都 there,
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我們有足夠的資本,
13:42
we've我們已經 got tens of billions數十億
of dollars美元, Chris克裡斯, per annum每年
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我們每年有數百億美金,克里斯,
可以用來清理環境。
13:45
to clean清潔 up the environment環境.
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13:46
CACA: You're in the recycling回收 business商業.
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克:你在做的是回收事業。
這不會和你的利益衝突嗎?
13:48
Isn't this a conflict衝突 of interest利益 for you,
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2006
或對你來說是很大的商機?
13:50
or rather, a huge巨大 business商業
opportunity機會 for you?
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安:是的,我在做鐵礦生意,
13:52
AFAf: Yeah, look, I'm in
the iron ore礦石 business商業,
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我和廢金屬生意競爭,
13:54
and I compete競爭 against反對
the scrap廢料 metal金屬 business商業,
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13:57
and that's why you don't have
any scrap廢料 lying說謊 around to trip over,
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那也為什麼路上沒有
會絆倒你的廢金屬
14:00
and cut your toe腳趾 on,
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或割傷你的腳趾,
因為它們都被撿走了。
14:01
because it gets得到 collected.
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14:03
CACA: This isn't your excuse藉口
to go into the plastic塑料 recycling回收 business商業.
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克:這不是你進入
塑膠回收事業的理由。
安:不是,我會為這種繁榮加油。
14:06
AFAf: No, I am going to cheer歡呼 for this boom繁榮.
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14:08
This will be the internet互聯網
of plastic塑料 waste浪費.
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這會是塑膠廢物聯網。
14:11
This will be a boom繁榮 industry行業
which哪一個 will spread傳播 all over the world世界,
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這會是個遍及全世界的繁榮產業,
14:14
and particularly尤其 where poverty貧窮 is worst最差
because that's where the rubbish垃圾 is most,
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特別是在最貧窮的地方,
因為那裡的垃圾最多,
14:18
and that's the resource資源.
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那都是資源。
14:19
So I'm going to cheer歡呼 for it
and stand back.
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所以我會先為它加油,
之後再退居幕後。
克:崔姬,在這個時代
14:23
CACA: Twiggy特維吉, we're in an era時代
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14:24
where so many許多 people around the world世界
are craving a new, regenerative再生 economy經濟,
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全世界許多人都渴望
有革新的經濟,
14:29
these big supply供應 chains,
these big industries行業,
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希望這些大型供應鏈、這些大產業
14:31
to fundamentally從根本上 transform轉變.
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能從根本上轉型。
14:33
It strikes罷工 me as a giant巨人 idea理念,
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我覺得這是個宏大的想法,
14:35
and you're going to need a lot of people
cheering歡呼 you on your way
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一路上你會需要很多人
幫你加油才能實現它。
14:38
to make it happen發生.
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非常謝謝你和我們分享。
14:39
Thank you for sharing分享 this with us.
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安:非常謝謝。謝謝你,克里斯。
14:41
AFAf: Thank you very much. Thank you, Chris克裡斯.
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14:43
(Applause掌聲)
312
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(掌聲)
Translated by Lilian Chiu
Reviewed by Yi-Fan Yu

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Andrew Forrest - Entrepreneur
Andrew "Twiggy" Forrest is an Australian businessman, philanthropist and entrepreneur, widely considered one of the country’s greatest change agents.

Why you should listen

As founder and chairman of Fortescue Metals Group, Andrew Forrest has led the company from inception to a market capitalisation of more than AU$30billion. In 2001, he co-founded Minderoo Foundation with his wife Nicola, and he's since donated more than AU$1.5 billion to its core initiatives and more than 280 causes around the world. Never daunted by the scale of a challenge, Forrest devotes his relentless energy to tackling some of the world’s greatest problems, including Indigenous disparity, modern slavery and cancer.

But it is Forrest's most recent pursuit -- a PhD in Marine Ecology -- that led him to the TED stage. Driven by a lifelong love for the oceans, Forrest studied marine life and, along the way, encountered the destructive impacts of ocean plastic pollution, which he is now striving to apprehend. 

More profile about the speaker
Andrew Forrest | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com