TED2018
Kashmir Hill and Surya Mattu: What your smart devices know (and share) about you
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Once your smart devices can talk to you, who else are they talking to? Kashmir Hill and Surya Mattu wanted to find out -- so they outfitted Hill's apartment with 18 different internet-connected devices and built a special router to track how often they contacted their servers and see what they were reporting back. The results were surprising -- and more than a little bit creepy. Learn more about what the data from your smart devices reveals about your sleep schedule, TV binges and even your tooth-brushing habits -- and how tech companies could use it to target and profile you. (This talk contains mature language.)
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Kashmir Hill: So for my
birthday last year,
birthday last year,
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my husband got me an Amazon Echo.
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I was kind of shocked, actually,
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because we both work
in privacy and security.
in privacy and security.
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(Laughter)
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And this was a device that would sit
in the middle of our home
in the middle of our home
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with a microphone on,
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constantly listening.
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We're not alone, though.
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According to a survey by NPR
and Edison Research,
and Edison Research,
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one in six American adults
now has a smart speaker,
now has a smart speaker,
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which means that they have
a virtual assistant at home.
a virtual assistant at home.
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Like, that's wild.
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The future, or the future dystopia,
is getting here fast.
is getting here fast.
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Beyond that, companies are offering us
all kinds of internet-connected devices.
all kinds of internet-connected devices.
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There are smart lights, smart locks,
smart toilets, smart toys,
smart toilets, smart toys,
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smart sex toys.
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Being smart means the device
can connect to the internet,
can connect to the internet,
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it can gather data,
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and it can talk to its owner.
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But once your appliances can talk to you,
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who else are they going to be talking to?
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I wanted to find out,
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so I went all-in and turned my
one-bedroom apartment in San Francisco
one-bedroom apartment in San Francisco
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into a smart home.
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I even connected our bed to the internet.
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As far as I know, it was just
measuring our sleeping habits.
measuring our sleeping habits.
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I can now tell you
that the only thing worse
that the only thing worse
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than getting a terrible night's sleep
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is to have your smart bed
tell you the next day
tell you the next day
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that you "missed your goal
and got a low sleep score."
and got a low sleep score."
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(Laughter)
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It's like, "Thanks, smart bed.
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As if I didn't already
feel like shit today."
feel like shit today."
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(Laughter)
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All together, I installed 18
internet-connected devices in my home.
internet-connected devices in my home.
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I also installed a Surya.
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Surya Mattu: Hi, I'm Surya.
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(Laughter)
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I monitored everything the smart home did.
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I built a special router that let me look
at all the network activity.
at all the network activity.
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You can think of my router
sort of like a security guard,
sort of like a security guard,
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compulsively logging
all the network packets
all the network packets
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as they entered and left the smart home.
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02:06
KH: Surya and I are both journalists,
he's not my husband,
he's not my husband,
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we just work together at Gizmodo.
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SM: Thank you for clarifying.
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The devices Kashmir bought --
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we were interested in understanding
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what they were saying
to their manufacturers.
to their manufacturers.
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But we were also interested
in understanding
in understanding
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what the home's digital
emissions look like
emissions look like
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to the internet service provider.
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We were seeing what the ISP could see,
but more importantly,
but more importantly,
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what they could sell.
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KH: We ran the experiment for two months.
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In that two months,
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there wasn't a single hour
of digital silence in the house --
of digital silence in the house --
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not even when we went away for a week.
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SM: Yeah, it's so true.
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Based on the data, I knew when
you guys woke up and went to bed.
you guys woke up and went to bed.
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I even knew when Kashmir
brushed her teeth.
brushed her teeth.
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I'm not going to out your brushing habits,
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but let's just say it was very clear to me
when you were working from home.
when you were working from home.
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KH: Uh, I think you just outed them
to, like, a lot of people here.
to, like, a lot of people here.
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SM: Don't be embarrassed,
it's just metadata.
it's just metadata.
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I knew when you turned on your TV
and how long you watched it for.
and how long you watched it for.
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Fun fact about the Hill household:
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they don't watch a lot of television,
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but when they do,
it's usually in binge mode.
it's usually in binge mode.
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Favorite shows include
"Difficult People" and "Party Down."
"Difficult People" and "Party Down."
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KH: OK, you're right,
I loved "Party Down."
I loved "Party Down."
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It's a great show,
and you should definitely watch it.
and you should definitely watch it.
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But "Difficult People"
was all my husband, Trevor.
was all my husband, Trevor.
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And Trevor was actually a little upset
that you knew about his binges,
that you knew about his binges,
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because even though he'd been the one
to connect the TV to the router,
to connect the TV to the router,
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he forgot that the TV was watching us.
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It's actually not the first time
that our TV has spied on us.
that our TV has spied on us.
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The company that made it, VIZIO,
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paid a 2.2 million-dollar settlement
to the government just last year,
to the government just last year,
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because it had been collecting
second-by-second information
second-by-second information
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about what millions of people
were watching on TV, including us,
were watching on TV, including us,
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and then it was selling that information
to data brokers and advertisers.
to data brokers and advertisers.
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SM: Ah, classic surveillance economy move.
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The devices Kashmir bought
almost all pinged their servers daily.
almost all pinged their servers daily.
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But do you know which device
was especially chatty?
was especially chatty?
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The Amazon Echo.
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It contacted its servers
every three minutes,
every three minutes,
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regardless of whether
you were using it or not.
you were using it or not.
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KH: In general, it was disconcerting
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that all these devices were having
ongoing conversations
ongoing conversations
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that were invisible to me.
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I mean, I would have had
no idea, without your router.
no idea, without your router.
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If you buy a smart device,
you should probably know --
you should probably know --
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you're going to own the device,
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but in general, the company
is going to own your data.
is going to own your data.
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And you know, I mean,
maybe that's to be expected --
maybe that's to be expected --
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you buy an internet-connected device,
it's going to use the internet.
it's going to use the internet.
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But it's strange to have these devices
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moving into the intimate space
that is the home
that is the home
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and allowing companies to track
our really basic behavior there.
our really basic behavior there.
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SM: So true.
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Even the most banal-seeming data
can be mined by the surveillance economy.
can be mined by the surveillance economy.
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For example, who cares
how often you brush your teeth?
how often you brush your teeth?
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Well, as it turns out, there's a dental
insurance company called Beam.
insurance company called Beam.
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They've been monitoring their customers'
smart toothbrushes since 2015 --
smart toothbrushes since 2015 --
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for discounts on their
premiums, of course.
premiums, of course.
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KH: We know what
some of you are thinking:
some of you are thinking:
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this is the contract of the modern world.
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You give up a little privacy,
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and you get some convenience
or some price breaks in return.
or some price breaks in return.
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But that wasn't my experience
in my smart home.
in my smart home.
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It wasn't convenient, it was infuriating.
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I'll admit, I love my smart vacuum,
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but many other things in the house
drove me insane:
drove me insane:
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we ran out of electrical outlets,
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and I had to download
over a dozen apps to my phone
over a dozen apps to my phone
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to control everything.
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And then every device had its own log-in,
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my toothbrush had a password ...
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(Laughter)
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And smart coffee, especially,
was just a world of hell.
was just a world of hell.
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SM: Wait, really? Cloud-powered
coffee wasn't really working for you?
coffee wasn't really working for you?
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KH: I mean, maybe I'm naive,
but I thought it was going to be great.
but I thought it was going to be great.
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I thought we'd just wake up in the morning
and we'd say, "Alexa, make us coffee."
and we'd say, "Alexa, make us coffee."
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But that's not how it went down.
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We had to use this really particular,
brand-specific phrase to make it work.
brand-specific phrase to make it work.
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It was, "Alexa, ask the Behmor
to run quick start."
to run quick start."
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And this was just, like,
really hard to remember
really hard to remember
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first thing in the morning,
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before you have had your caffeine.
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(Laughter)
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And apparently, it was hard to say,
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because the Echo Dot
that was right next to our bed
that was right next to our bed
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just couldn't understand us.
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So we would basically start every day
by screaming this phrase at the Echo Dot.
by screaming this phrase at the Echo Dot.
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(Laughter)
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And Trevor hated this.
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He'd be like, "Please, Kashmir,
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just let me go to the kitchen and push
the button to make the coffee run."
the button to make the coffee run."
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And I'd be like, "No, you can't!
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We have to do it the smart way!"
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(Laughter)
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I'm happy to report that our marriage
survived the experiment,
survived the experiment,
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but just barely.
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SM: If you decide to make your home smart,
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hopefully, you’ll find it
less infuriating than Kashmir did.
less infuriating than Kashmir did.
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But regardless, the smart things you buy
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can and probably are used
to target and profile you.
to target and profile you.
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Just the number of devices you have
can be used to predict
can be used to predict
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how rich or poor you are.
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Facebook's made this tech,
and they've also patented it.
and they've also patented it.
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KH: All the anxiety you currently feel
every time you go online,
every time you go online,
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about being tracked,
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is about to move into your living room.
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Or into your bedroom.
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There's this sex toy called the We-Vibe.
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You might wonder why
a sex toy connects to the internet,
a sex toy connects to the internet,
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but it's for two people
who are in a long-distance relationship,
who are in a long-distance relationship,
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so they can share their love from afar.
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Some hackers took a close look at this toy
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and saw it was sending
a lot of information
a lot of information
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back to the company that made it --
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when it was used,
how long it was used for,
how long it was used for,
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what the vibration settings were,
how hot the toy got.
how hot the toy got.
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It was all going into a database.
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So I reached out to the company,
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and I said, "Why are you collecting
this really sensitive data?"
this really sensitive data?"
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And they said, "Well, it's great
for market research."
for market research."
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But they were data-mining
their customers' orgasms.
their customers' orgasms.
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And they weren't telling them about it.
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I mean, even if
you're cavalier about privacy,
you're cavalier about privacy,
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I hope that you would admit
that's a step too far.
that's a step too far.
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SM: This is why I want
to keep my sex toys dumb.
to keep my sex toys dumb.
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KH: That's great.
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We're all very glad to know that.
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(Laughter)
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SM: A data point I'm willing to share.
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(Laughter)
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The devices Kashmir bought
range from useful to annoying.
range from useful to annoying.
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But the thing they all had in common
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was sharing data with
the companies that made them.
the companies that made them.
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With email service providers
and social media,
and social media,
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we've long been told that if it's free,
you're the product.
you're the product.
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But with the internet of things, it seems,
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even if you pay, you're still the product.
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So you really have to ask:
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Who's the true beneficiary
of your smart home,
of your smart home,
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you or the company mining you?
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KH: Look, we're a tech savvy crowd here.
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I think most of us know
that these things connect to the internet
that these things connect to the internet
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and send data out.
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And fine, maybe you're OK with living
in that commercial panopticon,
in that commercial panopticon,
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but others aren't.
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We need the companies to rethink
the design of these devices
the design of these devices
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with our privacy in mind,
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because we're not all willing
to participate in "market research,"
to participate in "market research,"
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just because a device we bought
has a Wi-Fi connection.
has a Wi-Fi connection.
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And I have to tell you,
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even when you're aware,
generally, this is happening,
generally, this is happening,
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it's really easy to forget that normal
household items are spying on you.
household items are spying on you.
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It's easy to forget
these things are watching you,
these things are watching you,
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because they don't look like cameras.
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They could look like ...
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well, they could look like a dildo.
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Kashmir Hill - Technology journalistKashmir Hill writes about privacy and technology.
Why you should listen
Kashmir Hill is a senior reporter for the Gizmodo Media Group. As she writes: "I started out in journalism blogging at what was essentially an online tabloid for lawyers. Then I got interested in privacy, and that forced me to write about Facebook and eventually about other technologies; along the way people started describing me as a technology journalist instead of a legal blogger.
"I've always wanted my writing to be approachable for a lay audience, so I usually use humor, a first-person approach or, ideally, both. So I've hacked a smart home, lived in a monitored one, created a fake business and bought it a fake reputation, worked as a crowdsourced girlfriend, lived on Bitcoin and spent a whole week WRITING IN CAPS LOCK. The best way to prepare people for future possible tech dystopias is for me to live in them and report back."
Kashmir Hill | Speaker | TED.com
Surya Mattu - Artist, investigative journalist, engineer
Think of Surya Mattu as a data detective. As he writes: "I am interested in figuring out the ways in which algorithmic systems harm people."
Why you should listen
Surya Mattu is a data reporter on Gizmodo's Special Projects Desk and an R&D journalism resident at Eyebeam NYC. As he writes: "My practice combines art, investigative journalism, engineering and creative technology. The aim is to reverse-engineer the specific ways in which the tools or technology we create are imbued with the ethics of the culture in which they're created. Currently, I am a data reporter. Previously, I was a contributing researcher at ProPublica, where I worked on "Machine Bias," a series that aims to highlight how algorithmic systems can be biased and discriminate against people."
Surya Mattu | Speaker | TED.com