TED2016
Uri Hasson: This is your brain on communication
Uri Hasson: Este é o teu cerebro en comunicación
Filmed:
Readability: 4.1
2,688,957 views
O neurocientífico Uri Hasson investiga as bases da comunicación humana, e os experimentos do seu laboratorio revelan que mesmo desde distintos idiomas, os nosos cerebros amosan unha actividade similar, ou "alíñanse", cando escoitamos a mesma idea ou o mesmo relato. Este sorprendente mecanismo neural permítenos transmitir padróns cerebrais, compartir recordos e coñecemento. "Podemos comunicarnos porque temos un código común que representa o significado", afirma Hasson.
Uri Hasson - Neuroscientist
Why do great thoughts and stories resonate so strongly with so many people, and how do we communicate them? Using fMRI experiments, Uri Hasson is looking for the answers. Full bio
Why do great thoughts and stories resonate so strongly with so many people, and how do we communicate them? Using fMRI experiments, Uri Hasson is looking for the answers. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Imagine that you invented a device
0
806
2075
Imaxinen que se inventase un aparato
que puidese gravar os meus recordos,
00:14
that can record my memories,
1
2905
1672
00:16
my dreams, my ideas,
2
4601
2037
os meus soños, as miñas ideas,
00:18
and transmit them to your brain.
3
6662
1663
e trasmitilos aos seus cerebros.
00:20
That would be a game-changing
technology, right?
technology, right?
4
8755
3075
Sería unha tecnoloxía rompedora, non si?
00:23
But in fact, we already
possess this device,
possess this device,
5
11854
3038
Pois o caso é que xa contamos con
ese dispositivo,
ese dispositivo,
00:26
and it's called human communication system
6
14916
2644
e chámase sistema de comunicación humana,
00:29
and effective storytelling.
7
17584
1848
un narrador efectivo.
00:31
To understand how this device works,
8
19874
2460
Para entender como funciona
este dispositivo,
este dispositivo,
00:34
we have to look into our brains.
9
22358
2415
temos que mirar dentro do noso cerebro.
00:36
And we have to formulate the question
in a slightly different manner.
in a slightly different manner.
10
24797
3586
E temos que formular a pregunta
dun xeito lixeiramente distinto.
dun xeito lixeiramente distinto.
00:40
Now we have to ask
11
28407
1463
Temos que preguntar
00:42
how these neuron patterns in my brain
12
30309
2616
como os padróns de neuronas do meu cerebro
00:44
that are associated
with my memories and ideas
with my memories and ideas
13
32949
3202
asociados cos meus recordos e ideas
00:48
are transmitted into your brains.
14
36175
2519
se transmiten aos seus cerebros.
00:51
And we think there are two factors
that enable us to communicate.
that enable us to communicate.
15
39702
3368
E cremos que hai dous factores
que nos permiten comunicarnos.
que nos permiten comunicarnos.
00:55
First, your brain is now
physically coupled to the sound wave
physically coupled to the sound wave
16
43094
4055
O primeiro, os seus cerebros están agora
fisicamente acoplados ás ondas sonoras
fisicamente acoplados ás ondas sonoras
00:59
that I'm transmitting to your brain.
17
47173
2475
que eu estou a transmitir
cara a eles.
cara a eles.
01:01
And second, we developed
a common neural protocol
a common neural protocol
18
49672
3378
E o segundo, desenvolvemos un
protocolo neural común
protocolo neural común
01:05
that enabled us to communicate.
19
53074
1758
que nos permite comunicarnos.
01:07
So how do we know that?
20
55459
1262
Como sabemos isto?
01:09
In my lab in Princeton,
21
57292
1893
No meu laboratorio en Princeton,
01:11
we bring people to the fMRI scanner
and we scan their brains
and we scan their brains
22
59209
3505
levamos xente ao escáner de IRMf
e escaneamos os seus cerebros
e escaneamos os seus cerebros
01:14
while they are either telling
or listening to real-life stories.
or listening to real-life stories.
23
62738
3900
mentres contan ou escoitan
historias da vida real.
historias da vida real.
01:18
And to give you a sense
of the stimulus we are using,
of the stimulus we are using,
24
66662
2624
Para que se fagan unha idea
dos estímulos que usamos,
dos estímulos que usamos,
01:21
let me play 20 seconds
from a story that we used,
from a story that we used,
25
69310
3984
permítanme que lles presente 20 seg
dun dos relatos que usamos,
dun dos relatos que usamos,
01:25
told by a very talented storyteller,
26
73318
2324
narrado por un excelente contacontos,
01:27
Jim O'Grady.
27
75666
1151
Jim O'Grady.
01:30
(Audio) Jim O'Grady: So I'm banging out
my story and I know it's good,
my story and I know it's good,
28
78244
3333
(Audio) Jim O'Grady: Estou a crear
o meu relato e sei que vai ser bo,
o meu relato e sei que vai ser bo,
01:33
and then I start to make it better --
29
81601
2290
e entón empezo facelo mellor --
01:35
(Laughter)
30
83915
2484
(Risas)
01:38
by adding an element of embellishment.
31
86423
2335
engadindo elementos que o embelecen.
01:41
Reporters call this "making shit up."
32
89502
3308
Os xornalistas chámanlle a isto
"inventar da nada".
"inventar da nada".
01:44
(Laughter)
33
92834
2271
(Risas)
01:47
And they recommend
against crossing that line.
against crossing that line.
34
95735
3116
E aconsellan non cruzar esa liña.
01:52
But I had just seen the line crossed
between a high-powered dean
between a high-powered dean
35
100208
4604
Pero veño de ver como se traspasaba
entre un poderoso decano
entre un poderoso decano
01:56
and assault with a pastry.
36
104836
1426
e un ataque cun pastel.
01:58
And I kinda liked it."
37
106286
1492
E como que me gustou."
01:59
Uri Hasson: OK, so now
let's look into your brain
let's look into your brain
38
107802
2374
Uri Hasson: Ben, agora
"miremos" nos seus cerebros
"miremos" nos seus cerebros
02:02
and see what's happening
when you listen to these kinds of stories.
when you listen to these kinds of stories.
39
110200
3228
e vexamos que pasa cando
escoitan este tipo de relatos.
escoitan este tipo de relatos.
02:05
And let's start simple -- let's start
with one listener and one brain area:
with one listener and one brain area:
40
113452
4044
Imos empezar polo fácil.
Empecemos cun oínte e unha área cerebral:
Empecemos cun oínte e unha área cerebral:
02:09
the auditory cortex that processes
the sounds that come from the ear.
the sounds that come from the ear.
41
117520
3489
o córtex auditivo, que procesa
os sons que chegan ao ouvido.
os sons que chegan ao ouvido.
02:13
And as you can see,
in this particular brain area,
in this particular brain area,
42
121033
2444
Como poden ver,
nesta área cerebral en particular,
nesta área cerebral en particular,
02:15
the responses are going up and down
as the story is unfolding.
as the story is unfolding.
43
123501
3492
as respostas soben e baixan
segundo transcorre o relato.
segundo transcorre o relato.
02:19
Now we can take these responses
44
127017
1593
Agora podemos coller esas respostas
02:20
and compare them to the responses
in other listeners
in other listeners
45
128634
2801
e comparalas coas doutros ouvintes
02:23
in the same brain area.
46
131459
1475
na mesma área cerebral.
02:24
And we can ask:
47
132958
1167
E podemos preguntarnos:
02:26
How similar are the responses
across all listeners?
across all listeners?
48
134149
3235
En que medida as respostas
de todos os ouvintes son similares?
de todos os ouvintes son similares?
02:30
So here you can see five listeners.
49
138018
2362
Aquí poden ver cinco ouvintes.
02:32
And we start to scan their brains
before the story starts,
before the story starts,
50
140983
3453
Empezamos a escanear os seus cerebros
antes de que empece o relato,
antes de que empece o relato,
02:36
when they're simply lying in the dark
and waiting for the story to begin.
and waiting for the story to begin.
51
144460
3539
cando só están deitados ás escuras,
agardando que comece a historia
agardando que comece a historia
02:40
As you can see,
52
148023
1154
Como poden ver,
02:41
the brain area is going up and down
in each one of them,
in each one of them,
53
149201
2758
esta área cerebral vai arriba e abaixo
en todos eles,
en todos eles,
02:43
but the responses are very different,
54
151983
1775
pero as respostas son distintas,
02:45
and not in sync.
55
153782
1667
non están sincronizadas.
02:47
However, immediately
as the story is starting,
as the story is starting,
56
155473
2706
Porén, en canto o relato comeza,
02:50
something amazing is happening.
57
158203
1686
ocorre algo asombroso.
02:52
(Audio) JO: So I'm banging out my story
and I know it's good,
and I know it's good,
58
160857
2929
(Audio) JO: Estou a crear o meu relato
e sei que vai ser bo,
e sei que vai ser bo,
02:55
and then I start to make it --
59
163810
1528
e entón empezo a...
02:57
UH: Suddenly, you can see
that the responses in all of the subjects
that the responses in all of the subjects
60
165362
3297
UH: Ei! De súpeto, poden ver que
as respostas de todos os suxeitos
as respostas de todos os suxeitos
03:00
lock to the story,
61
168683
1152
se axustan ao relato,
03:01
and now they are going up and down
in a very similar way
in a very similar way
62
169859
3429
e agora soben e baixan
de xeito moi parecido
de xeito moi parecido
03:05
across all listeners.
63
173312
1554
en todos os ouvintes.
03:06
And in fact, this is exactly
what is happening now in your brains
what is happening now in your brains
64
174890
3049
E, de feito, exactamente iso está a pasar
agora nos seus cerebros
agora nos seus cerebros
03:09
when you listen to my sound speaking.
65
177963
2873
mentres escoitan as miñas palabras.
03:12
We call this effect "neural entrainment."
66
180860
3008
A isto chamámoslle efecto de
"sincronización neural".
"sincronización neural".
03:16
And to explain to you
what is neural entrainment,
what is neural entrainment,
67
184374
2312
E para explicarlles o que é
déixenme primeiro explicar
que é a sincronización física.
que é a sincronización física.
03:18
let me first explain
what is physical entrainment.
what is physical entrainment.
68
186710
2610
03:22
So, we'll look and see five metronomes.
69
190076
2750
Miremos para estes cinco metrónomos.
03:24
Think of these five metronomes
as five brains.
as five brains.
70
192850
2996
Imaxinen que son cinco cerebros.
03:27
And similar to the listeners
before the story starts,
before the story starts,
71
195870
2750
E igual que os ouvintes antes de
que empezara o relato
que empezara o relato
03:30
these metronomes are going to click,
72
198644
1813
os metrónomos van soar,
03:32
but they're going to click out of phase.
73
200481
2159
pero van facelo fóra de fase.
03:35
(Clicking)
74
203059
4396
(Tictacs)
03:39
Now see what will happen
when I connect them together
when I connect them together
75
207479
3001
Agora vexan o que pasa
cando os poño en contacto
cando os poño en contacto
03:42
by placing them on these two cylinders.
76
210504
2141
poñendoos enriba destes cilindros.
03:45
(Clicking)
77
213880
3221
(Tictacs)
03:49
Now these two cylinders start to rotate.
78
217125
2612
Agora os cilindros empezan a xirar.
03:51
This rotation vibration
is going through the wood
is going through the wood
79
219761
3129
A vibración da rotación
transmítese pola madeira
transmítese pola madeira
03:54
and is going to couple
all the metronomes together.
all the metronomes together.
80
222914
3005
e consegue acoplar todos os metrónomos.
03:57
And now listen to the click.
81
225943
1612
Escoiten agora o tictac.
03:59
(Synchronized clicking)
82
227579
4667
(Tictac sincronizado)
04:09
This is what you call
physical entrainment.
physical entrainment.
83
237834
2624
Isto é o que se chama
sincronización física.
sincronización física.
04:12
Now let's go back to the brain and ask:
84
240482
2243
Agora de volta aos cerebros,
preguntémonos:
preguntémonos:
04:14
What's driving this neural entrainment?
85
242749
2144
Que é o que guía esta
sincronización neural?
sincronización neural?
04:16
Is it simply the sounds
that the speaker is producing?
that the speaker is producing?
86
244917
2785
Son, simplemente, os sons
que produce o falante?
que produce o falante?
04:19
Or maybe it's the words.
87
247726
1323
ou tal vez son as palabras,
04:21
Or maybe it's the meaning
that the speaker is trying to convey.
that the speaker is trying to convey.
88
249073
3646
ou se cadra é o significado
que o relator tenta transmtir.
que o relator tenta transmtir.
04:24
So to test it, we did
the following experiment.
the following experiment.
89
252743
2760
Para poñelo a proba, fixemos
os seguintes experimentos.
os seguintes experimentos.
04:27
First, we took the story
and played it backwards.
and played it backwards.
90
255527
3201
Primeiro, collemos o relato
e reproducímolo ao revés.
e reproducímolo ao revés.
04:30
And that preserved many
of the original auditory features,
of the original auditory features,
91
258752
3126
Isto preserva moitas das
características auditivas orixinais,
características auditivas orixinais,
04:33
but removed the meaning.
92
261902
2013
pero elimina o significado,
04:35
And it sounds something like that.
93
263939
1671
e vén soando así:
04:37
(Audio) JO: (Unintelligible)
94
265634
5138
(Audio) JO: (Inintelixible)
04:43
And we flashed colors in the two brains
95
271296
2352
Poñemos cores nos dous cerebros
04:45
to indicate brain areas that respond
very similarly across people.
very similarly across people.
96
273672
3912
para indicar as áreas que responden
de modo moi similar en todo o mundo.
de modo moi similar en todo o mundo.
04:49
And as you can see,
97
277608
1154
Como poden ver, este son
04:50
this incoming sound induced entrainment
or alignment in all of the brains
or alignment in all of the brains
98
278786
3768
induce a sincronización ou
aliñamento en todos os cerebros
aliñamento en todos os cerebros
04:54
in auditory cortices
that process the sounds,
that process the sounds,
99
282578
2732
nos córtex auditivos que procesan os sons,
04:57
but it didn't spread
deeper into the brain.
deeper into the brain.
100
285334
2224
pero non se estende máis alá no cerebro.
05:00
Now we can take these sounds
and build words out of it.
and build words out of it.
101
288051
3404
Agora podemos coller eses sons
e construír palabras con eles.
e construír palabras con eles.
05:03
So if we take Jim O'Grady
and scramble the words,
and scramble the words,
102
291479
2656
Se remexemos as palabras
do relato de Jim O'Grady
do relato de Jim O'Grady
e sacamos unha lista de palabras.
05:06
we'll get a list of words.
103
294159
1240
05:07
(Audio) JO: ... an animal ...
assorted facts ...
assorted facts ...
104
295423
2262
(Audio) JO: ... un animal...
... surtido de sucesos... e dereito
... surtido de sucesos... e dereito
05:09
and right on ... pie man ...
potentially ... my stories
potentially ... my stories
105
297709
2892
home torta ...
potencialmente... meus contos
potencialmente... meus contos
E poden ver que estas palabras
empezan a inducir un aliñamento
empezan a inducir un aliñamento
05:12
UH: And you can see that these words
start to induce alignment
start to induce alignment
106
300625
2942
05:15
in early language areas,
but not more than that.
but not more than that.
107
303591
2605
nas áreas temperás da linguaxe,
pero non máis alá.
pero non máis alá.
05:18
Now we can take the words
and start to build sentences out of them.
and start to build sentences out of them.
108
306220
3817
E agora collemos as palabras
e empezamos a facer frases con elas.
e empezamos a facer frases con elas.
05:23
(Audio) JO: And they recommend
against crossing that line.
against crossing that line.
109
311561
3000
(Audio) JO: E aconsellan
non cruzar ese límite.
non cruzar ese límite.
05:28
He says: "Dear Jim,
Good story. Nice details.
Good story. Nice details.
110
316021
3642
Di: "Prezado Jim,
Un bo conto. Fermosos detalles.
Un bo conto. Fermosos detalles.
05:32
Didn't she only know
about him through me?"
about him through me?"
111
320369
2152
Acaso ela non o coñecía só por min?
UH: E agora poden ver que as respostas
en todas as áreas lingüísticas
en todas as áreas lingüísticas
05:34
UH: Now you can see that the responses
in all the language areas
in all the language areas
112
322545
3135
05:37
that process the incoming language
113
325704
1691
que procesan a linguaxe entrante
aparecen aliñadas ou semellantes
en todos os oíntes.
en todos os oíntes.
05:39
become aligned or similar
across all listeners.
across all listeners.
114
327419
2379
05:42
However, only when we use
the full, engaging, coherent story
the full, engaging, coherent story
115
330218
4677
No entanto, só cando poñemos
o relato completo, interesante, coherente
o relato completo, interesante, coherente
05:46
do the responses spread
deeper into the brain
deeper into the brain
116
334919
2225
as respostas espállanse mais
no cerebro, nas áreas de orde superior,
05:49
into higher-order areas,
117
337168
1531
05:50
which include the frontal cortex
and the parietal cortex,
and the parietal cortex,
118
338723
3101
que inclúen o córtex frontal e
o córtex parietal,
o córtex parietal,
05:53
and make all of them
respond very similarly.
respond very similarly.
119
341848
2588
e fan que todas elas respondan
de xeito moi similar.
de xeito moi similar.
05:56
And we believe that these responses
in higher-order areas are induced
in higher-order areas are induced
120
344460
3269
E pensamos que estas respostas
nas áreas de orde superior son inducidas
nas áreas de orde superior son inducidas
05:59
or become similar across listeners
121
347753
2126
ou se igualan en todos os ouvintes
06:01
because of the meaning
conveyed by the speaker,
conveyed by the speaker,
122
349903
2740
debido ao significado
transmitido polo falante,
transmitido polo falante,
06:04
and not by words or sound.
123
352667
1601
e non polo son das palabras.
06:06
And if we are right,
there's a strong prediction over here
there's a strong prediction over here
124
354635
2715
E se estamos no certo,
disto derívase unha sólida predición:
disto derívase unha sólida predición:
06:09
if I tell you the exact same ideas
125
357374
2362
se eu lles conto as mesmas ideas
06:11
using two very different sets of words,
126
359760
2644
expresadas con diferentes palabras,
06:14
your brain responses
will still be similar.
will still be similar.
127
362428
2551
as súas respostas cerebrais
han ser similares.
han ser similares.
06:17
And to test it, we did
the following experiment in my lab.
the following experiment in my lab.
128
365499
3014
Para probalo, no meu laboratorio
fixemos o seguinte experimento:
fixemos o seguinte experimento:
06:21
We took the English story
129
369142
1808
Collemos o relato en inglés
06:22
and translated it to Russian.
130
370974
2136
e traducímolo ao ruso.
06:25
Now you have two different sounds
and linguistic systems
and linguistic systems
131
373134
4224
Así teñen dous sons e sistemas
lingüísticos diferentes
lingüísticos diferentes
06:29
that convey the exact same meaning.
132
377382
2294
que transmiten o mesmo significado.
06:31
And you play the English story
to the English listeners
to the English listeners
133
379700
3648
E presentamos o relato en inglés
aos ouvintes ingleses
aos ouvintes ingleses
06:35
and the Russian story
to the Russian listeners,
to the Russian listeners,
134
383372
2352
e o relato en ruso
aos ouvintes rusos,
aos ouvintes rusos,
06:37
and we can compare their responses
across the groups.
across the groups.
135
385748
3045
e así podemos comparar
as respostas nos dous grupos.
as respostas nos dous grupos.
06:40
And when we did that, we didn't see
responses that are similar
responses that are similar
136
388817
3571
E cando o facemos, non vemos
respostas iguais
respostas iguais
06:44
in auditory cortices in language,
137
392412
2281
nos córtex auditivos,
nas áreas lingüisticas,
nas áreas lingüisticas,
06:46
because the language
and sound are very different.
and sound are very different.
138
394717
2378
porque a linguaxe e os sons
son moi distintos.
son moi distintos.
06:49
However, you can see
that the responses in high-order areas
that the responses in high-order areas
139
397119
2768
No entanto, poden ver que as respostas
nas áreas de orde superior
nas áreas de orde superior
06:51
were still similar
across these two groups.
across these two groups.
140
399921
2494
aínda son similares nos dous grupos.
06:55
We believe this is because they understood
the story in a very similar way,
the story in a very similar way,
141
403068
4092
Cremos que isto se debe a que
entenden o relato de xeito semellante,
entenden o relato de xeito semellante,
06:59
as we confirmed, using a test
after the story ended.
after the story ended.
142
407184
4026
tal e como confirmamos pasándolles
un test ao remate do conto.
un test ao remate do conto.
07:04
And we think that this alignment
is necessary for communication.
is necessary for communication.
143
412321
3687
E pensamos que este aliñamento
é necesario para a comuniciación.
é necesario para a comuniciación.
07:08
For example, as you can tell,
144
416032
2626
Por exemplo, como vostedes perciben,
07:10
I am not a native English speaker.
145
418682
2027
eu non son un falante inglés nativo.
07:12
I grew up with another language,
146
420733
1881
A miña lingua materna é outra,
07:14
and the same might be for many
of you in the audience.
of you in the audience.
147
422638
2654
e seguramente este é o caso
de moitos de vostedes.
de moitos de vostedes.
07:17
And still, we can communicate.
148
425316
1999
E aínda así, podemos comunicarnos.
07:19
How come?
149
427339
1151
Como?
07:20
We think we can communicate
because we have this common code
because we have this common code
150
428514
3079
Podemos comunicarnos porque
temos este código común
temos este código común
07:23
that presents meaning.
151
431617
1427
que os presentes entendemos.
07:25
So far, I've only talked about
what's happening in the listener's brain,
what's happening in the listener's brain,
152
433921
3446
Polo de agora, só lles falei
do que ocorre no cerebro do ouvinte,
do que ocorre no cerebro do ouvinte,
07:29
in your brain, when
you're listening to talks.
you're listening to talks.
153
437391
2247
no seu cerebro,
mentres escoitan o que lles conto.
mentres escoitan o que lles conto.
07:31
But what's happening
in the speaker's brain, in my brain,
in the speaker's brain, in my brain,
154
439662
2699
Pero que ocorre
no cerebro do falante, no meu,
no cerebro do falante, no meu,
07:34
when I'm speaking to you?
155
442385
1807
cando lles falo?
07:36
To look in the speaker's brain,
156
444216
1857
Para mirar no cerebro do falante,
07:38
we asked the speaker
to go into the scanner,
to go into the scanner,
157
446097
3096
pedímoslle a este
que se metese no escáner,
que se metese no escáner,
07:41
we scan his brain
158
449217
1602
escaneamos o seu cerebro
07:42
and then compare his brain responses
to the brain responses of the listeners
to the brain responses of the listeners
159
450843
4007
e comparamos as súas respostas cerebrais
coas dos ouvintes
coas dos ouvintes
07:46
listening to the story.
160
454874
1802
que estaban a oír o relato.
07:48
You have to remember that producing speech
and comprehending speech
and comprehending speech
161
456700
4210
Teñen que lembrar que a produción
e a comprensión da fala
e a comprensión da fala
07:52
are very different processes.
162
460934
1723
son procesos moi distintos.
07:54
Here we're asking: How similar are they?
163
462681
2244
E aquí preguntámonos:
Canto se parecen?
Canto se parecen?
07:58
To our surprise,
164
466164
1407
Para a nosa sorpresa,
07:59
we saw that all these complex
patterns within the listeners
patterns within the listeners
165
467595
4871
vimos que todos estes complexos
padróns de resposta nos ouvintes
padróns de resposta nos ouvintes
08:04
actually came from the speaker brain.
166
472490
2707
en realidade veñen do cerebro do falante.
08:07
So production and comprehension
rely on very similar processes.
rely on very similar processes.
167
475221
3685
Así que a produción e a comprensión
asentan en procesos moi similares.
asentan en procesos moi similares.
08:10
And we also found
168
478930
1572
E tamén atopamos
08:12
the stronger the similarity
between the listener's brain
between the listener's brain
169
480526
3706
que canto máis semellanza hai
entre o cerebro do ouvinte
entre o cerebro do ouvinte
08:16
and the speaker's brain,
170
484256
1499
e o do falante,
08:17
the better the communication.
171
485779
1905
mellor é a comunicación.
08:19
So I know that if you
are completely confused now,
are completely confused now,
172
487708
3965
Deste xeito, sei que se vostedes
están agora totalmente confusos,
están agora totalmente confusos,
08:23
and I do hope that this is not the case,
173
491697
2021
e agardo que non sexa así,
as súas respostas cerebrais
serán distintas das miñas.
serán distintas das miñas.
08:25
your brain responses
are very different than mine.
are very different than mine.
174
493742
2393
Pero tamén sei que se realmente
están a me entender,
están a me entender,
08:28
But I also know that if you really
understand me now,
understand me now,
175
496159
3107
08:31
then your brain ... and your brain
... and your brain
... and your brain
176
499290
2891
entón o seu cerebro... e o seu...
e o seu...
e o seu...
08:34
are really similar to mine.
177
502205
1728
son moi similares ao meu.
08:37
Now, let's take all
this information together and ask:
this information together and ask:
178
505793
3095
Agora xuntemos toda esta
información e preguntémonos:
información e preguntémonos:
08:40
How can we use it to transmit
a memory that I have
a memory that I have
179
508912
3337
Como podo usala para
transmitir un recordo meu
transmitir un recordo meu
08:44
from my brain to your brains?
180
512273
2186
desde o meu cerebro aos seus?
08:47
So we did the following experiment.
181
515037
2118
Así que fixemos o seguinte experimento.
08:49
We let people watch,
for the first time in their life,
for the first time in their life,
182
517648
2573
Puxemos xente a ver,
por primeira vez na súa vida,
por primeira vez na súa vida,
08:52
a TV episode from the BBC series
"Sherlock," while we scanned their brains.
"Sherlock," while we scanned their brains.
183
520245
4134
un capítulo da serie "Sherlock" da BBC,
mentres escaneábamos os seus cerebros.
mentres escaneábamos os seus cerebros.
08:56
And then we asked them
to go back to the scanner
to go back to the scanner
184
524403
2801
Logo pedímoslles que
volveran meterse no escáner
volveran meterse no escáner
08:59
and tell the story to another person
that never watched the movie.
that never watched the movie.
185
527228
3899
e lle contaran a historia a outra persoa
que nunca vira a serie.
que nunca vira a serie.
09:03
So let's be specific.
186
531151
1660
Concretemos.
09:04
Think about this exact scene,
187
532835
2047
Pensen nesta escena,
09:06
when Sherlock is entering
the cab in London
the cab in London
188
534906
2584
cando Sherlock entra en Londres no taxi
09:09
driven by the murderer he is looking for.
189
537514
2296
conducido polo asasino que está a buscar.
09:12
With me, as a viewer,
190
540398
2496
Se eu son o espectador,
09:14
there is a specific brain pattern
in my brain when I watch it.
in my brain when I watch it.
191
542918
3500
hai un padrón específico no meu cerebro
cando a estou a ver.
cando a estou a ver.
09:19
Now, the exact same pattern,
I can reactivate in my brain again
I can reactivate in my brain again
192
547179
3772
Pois podo reactivar ese mesmo padrón
no meu cerebro de novo
no meu cerebro de novo
09:22
by telling the world:
Sherlock, London, murderer.
Sherlock, London, murderer.
193
550975
3656
dicindo as palabras:
Sherlock, Londres, asasino.
Sherlock, Londres, asasino.
09:27
And when I'm transmitting
these words to your brains now,
these words to your brains now,
194
555369
3110
E agora, cando transmito
estas palabras aos seus cerebros,
estas palabras aos seus cerebros,
09:30
you have to reconstruct it in your mind.
195
558503
2485
vostedes poden reconstruílo na súa mente.
09:33
In fact, we see that pattern
emerging now in your brains.
emerging now in your brains.
196
561012
4549
De feito, vemos estes padróns
emerxendo nos seus cerebros.
emerxendo nos seus cerebros.
09:37
And we were really surprised to see
197
565585
2515
E quedariamos abraiados ao ver
09:40
that the pattern you have
now in your brains
now in your brains
198
568124
2255
que o padrón que teñen
agora nos seus cerebros
agora nos seus cerebros
09:42
when I'm describing to you these scenes
199
570403
1912
cando lles describo estas escenas
09:44
would be very similar to the pattern
I had when I watched this movie
I had when I watched this movie
200
572339
3822
sería moi semellante ao que
tiña eu mentres vía a película
tiña eu mentres vía a película
09:48
a few months ago in the scanner.
201
576185
2138
hai uns meses, dentro do escáner.
09:50
This starts to tell you
about the mechanism
about the mechanism
202
578347
2104
Isto empeza a explicarlles o mecanismo
09:52
by which we can tell stories
and transmit information.
and transmit information.
203
580475
2742
polo que podemos contar historias
e transmitir información.
e transmitir información.
09:55
Because, for example,
204
583733
1876
Porque, por exemplo,
09:57
now you're listening really hard
and trying to understand what I'm saying.
and trying to understand what I'm saying.
205
585633
3512
agora están a escoitar atentos
e tratan de entender o que lles conto.
e tratan de entender o que lles conto.
10:01
And I know that it's not easy.
206
589169
1550
E ben sei que non é doado.
10:02
But I hope that at one point
in the talk we clicked, and you got me.
in the talk we clicked, and you got me.
207
590743
4036
Pero agardo que nun momento dado
na charla nos conectemos, e me sigan.
na charla nos conectemos, e me sigan.
10:06
And I think that in a few hours,
a few days, a few months,
a few days, a few months,
208
594803
3898
E creo que dentro dunhas horas,
uns días, uns meses,
uns días, uns meses,
10:10
you're going to meet someone at a party,
209
598725
2144
atoparán a alguén nunha festa,
10:12
and you're going to tell him
about this lecture,
about this lecture,
210
600893
3548
e falaranlle desta charla,
10:16
and suddenly it will be as if
he is standing now here with us.
he is standing now here with us.
211
604465
3638
e de súpeto, será como se esa persoa
estivese agora connosco.
estivese agora connosco.
10:20
Now you can see
how we can take this mechanism
how we can take this mechanism
212
608127
2850
Así poden ver como
podemos usar este mecanismo
podemos usar este mecanismo
10:23
and try to transmit memories
and knowledge across people,
and knowledge across people,
213
611001
3931
e tratar de transmitirlles recordos
e coñecementos á xente,
e coñecementos á xente,
10:26
which is wonderful, right?
214
614956
2047
o que é marabilloso, non si?
10:29
But our ability to communicate
relies on our ability
relies on our ability
215
617027
3167
Pero a nosa capacidade para comunicar
aséntase na nosa capacidade
aséntase na nosa capacidade
10:32
to have common ground.
216
620218
2566
para ter unha base común.
10:34
Because, for example,
217
622808
1205
Porque, por exemplo,
10:36
if I'm going to use the British synonym
218
624037
3767
se chego a usar o sinónimo
10:39
"hackney carriage" instead of "cab,"
219
627828
2378
"coche con condutor" no canto de "taxi",
10:42
I know that I'm going to be misaligned
with most of you in the audience.
with most of you in the audience.
220
630230
4039
seguro que me perdería o aliñamento
con moitos de vostedes, da audiencia.
con moitos de vostedes, da audiencia.
Este aliñamento depende
non só da nosa capacidade
non só da nosa capacidade
10:46
This alignment depends
not only on our ability
not only on our ability
221
634720
2191
10:48
to understand the basic concept;
222
636935
2034
para comprender o concepto básico;
10:50
it also depends on our ability to develop
common ground and understanding
common ground and understanding
223
638993
4795
tamén da capacidade para desenvolver
unha base común
unha base común
e entender e compartir
o sistema de crenzas.
o sistema de crenzas.
10:55
and shared belief systems.
224
643812
1787
10:57
Because we know that in many cases,
225
645623
1834
Porque sabemos que en moitos casos,
10:59
people understand the exact
same story in very different ways.
same story in very different ways.
226
647481
4043
a xente entende de modos distintos
a mesma historia.
a mesma historia.
11:04
So to test it in the lab,
we did the following experiment.
we did the following experiment.
227
652460
3041
Para poñelo a proba no laboratorio,
fixemos o seguinte experimento.
fixemos o seguinte experimento.
11:08
We took a story by J.D. Salinger,
228
656089
2931
Collimos un relato de J.D. Salinger,
11:11
in which a husband lost track
of his wife in the middle of a party,
of his wife in the middle of a party,
229
659044
4335
no que un home lle perde a pista
á súa muller durante unha festa,
á súa muller durante unha festa,
11:15
and he's calling his best friend, asking,
"Did you see my wife?"
"Did you see my wife?"
230
663403
3687
e chama ao seu mellor amigo e pregúntalle,
"Viches á miña muller?"
"Viches á miña muller?"
11:19
For half of the subjects,
231
667836
1207
Á métade dos suxeitos
11:21
we said that the wife was having
an affair with the best friend.
an affair with the best friend.
232
669067
4141
dixémoslles que a muller estaba
a ter unha aventura co mellor amigo.
a ter unha aventura co mellor amigo.
11:25
For the other half,
233
673232
1151
Á outra metade,
11:26
we said that the wife is loyal
and the husband is very jealous.
and the husband is very jealous.
234
674407
5105
dixémoslles que a muller era fiel
e o home moi ciumento.
e o home moi ciumento.
11:32
This one sentence before the story started
235
680127
2688
Esta única frase antes de empezar o relato
11:34
was enough to make the brain responses
236
682839
2301
abondou para que as respostas cerebrais
11:37
of all the people that believed
the wife was having an affair
the wife was having an affair
237
685164
3044
dos que crían que a muller
estaba a ter unha aventura
estaba a ter unha aventura
11:40
be very similar in these high-order areas
238
688232
2437
fosen moi similares nestas
áreas de orde superior
áreas de orde superior
11:42
and different than the other group.
239
690693
2222
e diferentes das do outro grupo.
11:44
And if one sentence is enough
to make your brain similar
to make your brain similar
240
692939
3673
E se unha frase abonda para facer
que os seus cerebros se parezan
que os seus cerebros se parezan
11:48
to people that think like you
241
696636
1603
aos da xente que pensa coma vostedes
11:50
and very different than people
that think differently than you,
that think differently than you,
242
698263
2953
e se diferencien de quen pensa distinto,
11:53
think how this effect is going
to be amplified in real life,
to be amplified in real life,
243
701240
3477
pensen en como se amplificará
este efecto na vida real,
este efecto na vida real,
11:56
when we are all listening
to the exact same news item
to the exact same news item
244
704741
2892
onde todos escoitamos
exactamente as mesmas noticias
exactamente as mesmas noticias
11:59
after being exposed
day after day after day
day after day after day
245
707657
3748
despois de estarmos expostos día tras día
a diferentes medios de comunicación,
12:03
to different media channels,
like Fox News or The New York Times,
like Fox News or The New York Times,
246
711429
3812
como os informativos da Fox
ou o New York Times,
ou o New York Times,
12:07
that give us very different
perspectives on reality.
perspectives on reality.
247
715265
3113
que nos dan perspectivas
moi distintas da realidade.
moi distintas da realidade.
12:11
So let me summarize.
248
719556
1353
Resumamos.
12:13
If everything worked as planned tonight,
249
721529
2089
Se todo funciona como planeei esta noite,
12:15
I used my ability to vocalize sound
to be coupled to your brains.
to be coupled to your brains.
250
723642
4299
usei a miña capacidade de vocalización
para acoplarme cos seus cerebros.
para acoplarme cos seus cerebros.
12:19
And I used this coupling
251
727965
1503
E usei este acoplamento
12:21
to transmit my brain patterns associated
with my memories and ideas
with my memories and ideas
252
729492
3841
para transmitir os meus padróns cerebrais
asociados cos meus recordos e ideas
asociados cos meus recordos e ideas
12:25
into your brains.
253
733357
1316
aos seus cerebros.
12:27
In this, I start to reveal
the hidden neural mechanism
the hidden neural mechanism
254
735201
3798
Con isto, empezo a revelar
o mecanismo neural oculto
o mecanismo neural oculto
12:31
by which we communicate.
255
739023
1635
polo que nos comunicamos.
12:32
And we know that in the future
it will enable us to improve
it will enable us to improve
256
740682
2967
E sabemos que no futuro
isto hanos permitir mellorar
isto hanos permitir mellorar
12:35
and facilitate communication.
257
743673
1990
e facilitar a comunicación.
12:38
But these studies also reveal
258
746111
1694
Pero estes estudos tamén revelan
12:40
that communication relies
on a common ground.
on a common ground.
259
748535
3286
que a comunicación asenta
nunha base común.
nunha base común.
12:43
And we have to be
really worried as a society
really worried as a society
260
751845
2462
E como sociedade temos que preocuparnos
12:46
if we lose this common ground
and our ability to speak with people
and our ability to speak with people
261
754331
4036
de se perdemos esta base común
e a nosa capacidade para falar coa xente
e a nosa capacidade para falar coa xente
12:50
that are slightly different than us
262
758391
2117
que é lixeiramente diferente a nós
12:52
because we let a few very strong
media channels
media channels
263
760532
3388
porque deixamos que uns poucos e poderosos
medios de comunicación
medios de comunicación
12:55
take control of the mic,
264
763944
1541
teñan o control do micrófono,
12:57
and manipulate and control
the way we all think.
the way we all think.
265
765509
3775
e manipulen e controlen
a nosa forma de pensar.
a nosa forma de pensar.
Eu non estou certo de como amañar isto,
porque só son un científico.
porque só son un científico.
13:01
And I'm not sure how to fix it
because I'm only a scientist.
because I'm only a scientist.
266
769308
2901
13:04
But maybe one way to do it
267
772233
2460
Pero tal vez un xeito de facelo
13:06
is to go back to the more
natural way of communication,
natural way of communication,
268
774717
2647
sexa volver á forma
mais natural de comunicación,
mais natural de comunicación,
13:09
which is a dialogue,
269
777388
1602
que é o diálogo,
13:11
in which it's not only me
speaking to you now,
speaking to you now,
270
779014
2507
que non son só eu
falándolles a vostedes,
falándolles a vostedes,
13:13
but a more natural way of talking,
271
781994
2216
senón unha forma
máis natural de conversar,
máis natural de conversar,
13:16
in which I am speaking and I am listening,
272
784234
3277
na que falo e escoito,
13:19
and together we are trying to come
to a common ground and new ideas.
to a common ground and new ideas.
273
787535
4720
e xuntos tratamos de chegar
a unha base común e a novas ideas.
a unha base común e a novas ideas.
13:24
Because after all,
274
792279
1158
Porque ao fin,
13:25
the people we are coupled to
define who we are.
define who we are.
275
793461
3664
as persoas coas que estamos
acoplados definen quen somos.
acoplados definen quen somos.
13:29
And our desire to be coupled
to another brain
to another brain
276
797149
2389
E o noso desexo de estar
acoplados a outro cerebro
acoplados a outro cerebro
13:31
is something very basic
that starts at a very early age.
that starts at a very early age.
277
799562
4517
é algo moi básico, que aparece
a unha idade moi temperá.
a unha idade moi temperá.
13:36
So let me finish with an example
from my own private life
from my own private life
278
804103
4187
Así que déixenme rematar
cun exemplo da miña vida privada
cun exemplo da miña vida privada
13:41
that I think is a good example
of how coupling to other people
of how coupling to other people
279
809044
4311
que penso que é amosa ben
como acoplarnos con outros
como acoplarnos con outros
13:45
is really going to define who we are.
280
813379
2274
realmente define quen somos.
13:48
This my son Jonathan at a very early age.
281
816294
3074
Este é o meu fillo Jonathan
cando era moi noviño.
cando era moi noviño.
13:51
See how he developed
a vocal game together with my wife,
a vocal game together with my wife,
282
819392
4150
Miren como desenvolve
un xogo vocal coa miña muller,
un xogo vocal coa miña muller,
13:55
only from the desire and pure joy
of being coupled to another human being.
of being coupled to another human being.
283
823566
5231
só por xogo e polo puro desexo
de estar acoplado con outro ser humano.
de estar acoplado con outro ser humano.
14:01
(Both vocalizing)
284
829556
4917
(Os dous vocalizando)
(Risas)
14:14
(Laughter)
285
842915
2328
14:17
Now, think how the ability of my son
286
845267
3797
Agora, pensen como a
capacidade do meu fillo
capacidade do meu fillo
14:21
to be coupled to us
and other people in his life
and other people in his life
287
849088
2762
de acoplarse con nós e
con outra xente na súa vida
con outra xente na súa vida
14:23
is going to shape the man
he is going to become.
he is going to become.
288
851874
2858
vai dar forma ao home
que chegará a ser no futuro.
que chegará a ser no futuro.
14:26
And think how you change on a daily basis
289
854756
2415
E pensen en como vostedes
cambian diariamente
cambian diariamente
14:29
from the interaction and coupling
to other people in your life.
to other people in your life.
290
857195
4323
mediante a interacción e o acoplamento
con outras persoas na súa vida.
con outras persoas na súa vida.
14:34
So keep being coupled to other people.
291
862562
2103
Sigan a acoplarse con outras persoas,
a espallar as súas ideas,
a espallar as súas ideas,
14:37
Keep spreading your ideas,
292
865157
1549
porque a suma de todos nós
xuntos, acoplados,
xuntos, acoplados,
14:38
because the sum of all of us
together, coupled,
together, coupled,
293
866730
3244
é maior que as nosas partes.
14:41
is greater than our parts.
294
869998
1594
14:43
Thank you.
295
871616
1166
Grazas.
(Aplausos)
14:44
(Applause)
296
872806
5662
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Uri Hasson - NeuroscientistWhy do great thoughts and stories resonate so strongly with so many people, and how do we communicate them? Using fMRI experiments, Uri Hasson is looking for the answers.
Why you should listen
Rather than purging real-world complexity from his experiments, Uri Hasson and his Princeton lab collaborators use messy, real-life stimuli to study how our brains communicate with other brains.
Using fMRI to peer into his subjects’ brain activity, Hasson has discovered that a great storyteller literally causes the neurons of an audience to closely sync with the storyteller’s brain -- a finding that has far-reaching implications for communicators, teachers, performers, and scientists alike.
Uri Hasson | Speaker | TED.com