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Helen Fisher: Technology hasn't changed love. Here's why
Helen Fisher: Tehnologija nije promijenila ljubav, a evo i zašto
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U našem međupovezanom svijetu vođenom tehnologijom razvili smo nove načine i pravila udvaranja, ali osnovni principi ljubavi ostaju isti, barem prema antropologinji Helen Fisher. U ovoj energičnoj i iznenađujućoj priči o ljubavi s prvih crta bojišnice saznat ćete kako brža povezanost zapravo vodi do sporijih, intimnijih veza. Pogledajte do kraja kako biste vidjeli živahnu raspravu s Esther Perel, stručnjakinjom za ljubav.
Helen Fisher - Anthropologist, expert on love
Anthropologist Helen Fisher studies gender differences and the evolution of human emotions. She’s best known as an expert on romantic love. Full bio
Anthropologist Helen Fisher studies gender differences and the evolution of human emotions. She’s best known as an expert on romantic love. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I was recently traveling
in the Highlands of New Guinea,
in the Highlands of New Guinea,
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Nedavno sam bila
u Visočju Nove Gvineje
u Visočju Nove Gvineje
00:15
and I was talking with a man
who had three wives.
who had three wives.
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i razgovarala sam s čovjekom s tri žene.
00:18
I asked him, "How many wives
would you like to have?"
would you like to have?"
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Pitala sam ga koliko bi žena volio imati.
00:22
And there was this long pause,
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Nastala je duga pauza
00:23
and I thought to myself,
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i pomislih,
00:25
"Is he going to say five?
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"Hoće li reći pet?
00:26
Is he going to say 10?
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Ili deset?
00:28
Is he going to say 25?"
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Ili dvadeset pet?"
00:29
And he leaned towards me
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Nagnuo se prema meni
00:31
and he whispered, "None."
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i šapnuo, "Nijednu."
00:32
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
00:35
Eighty-six percent of human societies
permit a man to have several wives:
permit a man to have several wives:
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Osamdeset šest posto ljudskih društava
muškarcu dozvoljava višeženstvo:
muškarcu dozvoljava višeženstvo:
00:39
polygeny.
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poligeniju.
00:41
But in the vast majority
of these cultures,
of these cultures,
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U većini ovih društava
00:43
only about five or ten percent of men
actually do have several wives.
actually do have several wives.
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samo pet do deset posto muškaraca
uistinu ima nekoliko žena.
uistinu ima nekoliko žena.
00:47
Having several partners
can be a toothache.
can be a toothache.
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Nije lako imati više bračnih partnera.
00:49
In fact, co-wives can
fight with each other,
fight with each other,
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Žene se mogu tući jedna s drugom,
00:53
sometimes they can even poison
each other's children.
each other's children.
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a ponekad jedna drugoj otruju djecu.
00:56
And you've got to have
a lot of cows, a lot of goats,
a lot of cows, a lot of goats,
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Trebate imati puno krava, koza,
00:59
a lot of money, a lot of land,
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novca, zemlje
01:01
in order to build a harem.
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da biste sagradili harem.
01:03
We are a pair-bonding species.
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Mi smo uparivačka vrsta.
01:05
Ninety-seven percent of mammals
do not pair up to rear their young;
do not pair up to rear their young;
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Čak 97% sisavaca ne mora se uparivati
da bi odgajali svoje mlado,
da bi odgajali svoje mlado,
01:08
human beings do.
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ali ljudska bića moraju.
01:10
I'm not suggesting that we're not --
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Ne kažem
01:13
that we're necessarily
sexually faithful to our partners.
sexually faithful to our partners.
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da smo nužno seksualno
vjerni svojim partnerima.
vjerni svojim partnerima.
01:16
I've looked at adultery in 42 cultures,
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Proučavala sam preljub u 42 kulture
01:18
I understand, actually,
some of the genetics of it,
some of the genetics of it,
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i donekle razumijem genetiku preljuba
01:21
and some of the brain circuitry of it.
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i sklop mozga u toj situaciji.
01:23
It's very common around the world,
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Uobičajeno je diljem svijeta,
01:25
but we are built to love.
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ali stvoreni smo za ljubav.
01:27
How is technology changing love?
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Kako tehnologija mijenja ljubav?
01:31
I'm going to say almost not at all.
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Usuđujem se reći - nikako.
01:34
I study the brain.
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Proučavam mozak.
01:36
I and my colleagues have put
over 100 people into a brain scanner --
over 100 people into a brain scanner --
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Kolege i ja skenirali smo
mozgove stotine ljudi,
mozgove stotine ljudi,
01:39
people who had just
fallen happily in love,
fallen happily in love,
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ljudi koji su se nedavno sretno zaljubili,
01:42
people who had just been rejected in love
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ljudi koji su nedavno odbačeni u ljubavi
01:44
and people who are in love long-term.
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i ljudi koji su dugoročno zaljubljeni.
01:46
And it is possible
to remain "in love" long-term.
to remain "in love" long-term.
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Moguće je biti dugoročno zaljubljen.
01:50
And I've long ago maintained
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Već dugo stojim pri tome
01:52
that we've evolved three distinctly
different brain systems
different brain systems
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da smo razvili tri različita
sustava u mozgu
sustava u mozgu
01:55
for mating and reproduction:
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za parenje i reprodukciju:
01:57
sex drive,
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libido,
01:58
feelings of intense romantic love
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osjećaji intenzivne romantične ljubavi
02:00
and feelings of deep cosmic
attachment to a long-term partner.
attachment to a long-term partner.
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i osjećaji duboke kozmičke povezanosti
s dugoročnim partnerom.
s dugoročnim partnerom.
02:04
And together, these three brain systems --
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Ova tri sustava mozga zajedno
02:06
with many other parts of the brain --
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s mnogim drugim dijelovima mozga
02:09
orchestrate our sexual,
our romantic and our family lives.
our romantic and our family lives.
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upravljaju našim seksualnim,
romantičnim i obiteljskim životima.
romantičnim i obiteljskim životima.
02:14
But they lie way below the cortex,
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No, nalaze se duboko ispod moždane opne,
02:16
way below the limbic system
where we feel our emotions,
where we feel our emotions,
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duboko ispod limbičkog sustava
u kojemu osjećamo različite emocije,
u kojemu osjećamo različite emocije,
02:21
generate our emotions.
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u kojemu ih stvaramo.
02:22
They lie in the most primitive parts
of the brain, linked with energy,
of the brain, linked with energy,
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Nalaze se u najprimitivnijim dijelovima
mozga povezanih s energijom,
mozga povezanih s energijom,
02:27
focus, craving, motivation,
wanting and drive.
wanting and drive.
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pozornosti, žudnjom,
motivacijom, željama i nagonima.
motivacijom, željama i nagonima.
02:32
In this case,
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U ovom slučaju
02:33
the drive to win life's greatest prize:
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nagon da osvojimo najveću životnu nagradu:
02:36
a mating partner.
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partnera za reprodukciju.
02:37
They evolved over 4.4 million years ago
among our first ancestors,
among our first ancestors,
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Razvili su se prije 4,4 milijuna godina
kod naših prvih predaka
kod naših prvih predaka
02:42
and they're not going to change
if you swipe left or right on Tinder.
if you swipe left or right on Tinder.
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i neće ih promijeniti
vaš odabir na Tinderu.
vaš odabir na Tinderu.
02:46
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:48
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
02:50
There's no question that technology
is changing the way we court:
is changing the way we court:
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Tehnologija neupitno mijenja
način na koji udvaramo:
način na koji udvaramo:
02:55
emailing, texting,
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mejlanje, SMS-anje,
02:57
emojis to express your emotions,
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emotikoni za izražavanje osjećaja,
02:59
sexting,
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seksualne poruke,
03:00
"liking" a photograph, selfies ...
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lajkanje slika, selfiji...
03:03
We're seeing new rules
and taboos for how to court.
and taboos for how to court.
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Primjećujemo nova pravila
i tabue u udvaranju.
i tabue u udvaranju.
03:07
But, you know --
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Ali
03:09
is this actually
dramatically changing love?
dramatically changing love?
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mijenja li išta od toga ljubav?
03:13
What about the late 1940s,
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Sjetite se samo kasnih 40-ih
03:16
when the automobile became very popular
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kada su automobili postali popularni,
03:18
and we suddenly had rolling bedrooms?
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a s njima i kreveti na četiri kotača.
03:21
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
03:22
How about the introduction
of the birth control pill?
of the birth control pill?
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A pojava kontracepcijskih pilula?
03:27
Unchained from the great threat
of pregnancy and social ruin,
of pregnancy and social ruin,
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Omogućile su ženama da se oslobode okova
trudnoće i društvene štete
trudnoće i društvene štete
03:32
women could finally express
their primitive and primal sexuality.
their primitive and primal sexuality.
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i da konačno slobodno izraze
svoju primitivnu, iskonsku seksualnost.
svoju primitivnu, iskonsku seksualnost.
03:37
Even dating sites are not changing love.
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Čak ni stranice za upoznavanje
ne mijenjaju ljubav.
ne mijenjaju ljubav.
03:40
I'm Chief Scientific Advisor to Match.com,
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Ja sam viši znanstveni savjetnik
stranice Match.com
stranice Match.com
03:43
I've been it for 11 years.
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već 11 godina.
03:45
I keep telling them
and they agree with me,
and they agree with me,
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Uporno im govorim, i oni se slažu sa mnom,
03:47
that these are not dating sites,
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da to nisu stranice za hodanje,
03:48
they are introducing sites.
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već za upoznavanje.
03:51
When you sit down in a bar,
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Kada sjedite u baru,
03:53
in a coffee house,
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kafiću,
03:54
on a park bench,
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na klupi u parku,
03:56
your ancient brain snaps into action
like a sleeping cat awakened,
like a sleeping cat awakened,
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vaš prastari mozak iznenada se budi
poput uspavane mačke
poput uspavane mačke
04:01
and you smile
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i nasmiješite se,
04:02
and laugh
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smijete se,
04:03
and listen
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slušate
04:05
and parade the way our ancestors
did 100,000 years ago.
did 100,000 years ago.
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i paradirate kao što su i naši preci
to činili prije 100 000 godina.
to činili prije 100 000 godina.
04:10
We can give you various people --
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Možemo vam dati gomile ljudi -
04:12
all the dating sites can --
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kao i druge stranice
za upoznavanje,
za upoznavanje,
04:13
but the only real algorithm
is your own human brain.
is your own human brain.
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ali jedini pravi algoritam
nalazi se u našem mozgu.
nalazi se u našem mozgu.
04:17
Technology is not going to change that.
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Tehnologija to neće promijeniti.
04:21
Technology is also not going to change
who you choose to love.
who you choose to love.
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A neće promijeniti ni to
koga odabiremo voljeti.
koga odabiremo voljeti.
04:25
I study the biology of personality,
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Proučavam biologiju osobnosti
04:28
and I've come to believe
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i počela sam vjerovati
04:29
that we've evolved four very broad
styles of thinking and behaving,
styles of thinking and behaving,
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da smo razvili četiri velika stila
razmišljanja i ponašanja
razmišljanja i ponašanja
04:33
linked with the dopamine, serotonin,
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povezanih sa sustavima
dopamina, serotonina,
dopamina, serotonina,
04:35
testosterone and estrogen systems.
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testosterona i estrogena.
04:38
So I created a questionnaire
directly from brain science
directly from brain science
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Inspirirana znanosti mozga
stvorila sam upitnik
stvorila sam upitnik
04:42
to measure the degree to which
you express the traits --
you express the traits --
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koji mjeri koliko izražavamo te osobine -
04:45
the constellation of traits --
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odnosno skupinu osobina -
04:47
linked with each
of these four brain systems.
of these four brain systems.
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povezane sa svakim od ova
četiri sustava mozga.
četiri sustava mozga.
04:50
I then put that questionnaire
on various dating sites
on various dating sites
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Zatim sam taj upitnik postavila
na različite stranice za upoznavanje
na različite stranice za upoznavanje
04:55
in 40 countries.
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u 40 zemalja.
04:57
Fourteen million or more people
have now taken the questionnaire,
have now taken the questionnaire,
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Dosada je taj upitnik ispunilo
14 milijuna ljudi
14 milijuna ljudi
05:01
and I've been able to watch
who's naturally drawn to whom.
who's naturally drawn to whom.
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i sada vidim tko koga
prirodno privlači.
prirodno privlači.
05:06
And as it turns out,
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Ispostavilo se
05:07
those who were very expressive
of the dopamine system
of the dopamine system
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da su oni koji imaju
izražen sustav dopamina
izražen sustav dopamina
05:10
tend to be curious, creative,
spontaneous, energetic --
spontaneous, energetic --
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znatiželjni, kreativni,
spontani i energični.
spontani i energični.
05:13
I would imagine there's an awful lot
of people like that in this room --
of people like that in this room --
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Pretpostavljam da je
u ovoj prostoriji puno takvih ljudi -
u ovoj prostoriji puno takvih ljudi -
05:17
they're drawn to people like themselves.
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njih privlače ljudi poput njih.
05:19
Curious, creative people
need people like themselves.
need people like themselves.
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Znatiželjni, kreativni ljudi
trebaju ljude poput sebe.
trebaju ljude poput sebe.
05:22
People who are very expressive
of the serotonin system
of the serotonin system
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Oni koji imaju izražen
sustav serotonina
sustav serotonina
05:25
tend to be traditional, conventional,
they follow the rules,
they follow the rules,
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više su tradicionalni,
konvencionalni, slijede pravila,
konvencionalni, slijede pravila,
05:28
they respect authority,
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poštuju autoritet,
05:30
they tend to be religious -- religiosity
is in the serotonin system --
is in the serotonin system --
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religiozni su - religioznost
se nalazi u ovom sustavu -
se nalazi u ovom sustavu -
05:33
and traditional people
go for traditional people.
go for traditional people.
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i tradicionalni ljudi
vole tradicionalne ljude.
vole tradicionalne ljude.
05:36
In that way, similarity attracts.
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U ovim primjerima sličnosti se privlače.
05:39
In the other two cases, opposites attract.
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U druga dva primjera
suprotnosti se privlače.
suprotnosti se privlače.
05:41
People very expressive
of the testosterone system
of the testosterone system
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Ljudi s izraženim sustavom testosterona
05:44
tend to be analytical,
logical, direct, decisive,
logical, direct, decisive,
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analitički su nastrojeni,
logični, direktni, odlučni,
logični, direktni, odlučni,
05:48
and they go for their opposite:
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a vole svoju suprotnost:
05:49
they go for somebody who's high estrogen,
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nekoga s više estrogena,
05:51
somebody who's got very good verbal skills
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nekoga rječitog
05:54
and people skills,
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tko zna s ljudima,
05:55
who's very intuitive
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tko je intuitivan,
05:56
and who's very nurturing
and emotionally expressive.
and emotionally expressive.
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topao i emocionalno ekspresivan.
06:00
We have natural patterns of mate choice.
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Imamo prirodne obrasce odabira partnera.
06:03
Modern technology is not going
to change who we choose to love.
to change who we choose to love.
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Moderna tehnologija neće promijeniti
koga odlučujemo voljeti.
koga odlučujemo voljeti.
06:09
But technology is producing
one modern trend
one modern trend
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No, moderna tehnologija
stvara moderan trend
stvara moderan trend
06:12
that I find particularly important.
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koji je meni prilično važan.
06:14
It's associated with the concept
of paradox of choice.
of paradox of choice.
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Povezan je s konceptom paradoksa izbora.
06:18
For millions of years,
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Milijunima godina
06:19
we lived in little hunting
and gathering groups.
and gathering groups.
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živjeli smo u malim
društvima lovaca-sakupljača.
društvima lovaca-sakupljača.
06:22
You didn't have the opportunity to choose
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Nismo mogli birati
06:24
between 1,000 people on a dating site.
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između 1 000 ljudi
na stranici za upoznavanje.
na stranici za upoznavanje.
06:28
In fact, I've been studying this recently,
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Nedavno sam ovo proučavala
06:30
and I actually think there's some
sort of sweet spot in the brain;
sort of sweet spot in the brain;
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i mislim da u mozgu postoji
optimalan broj koji može prihvatiti;
optimalan broj koji može prihvatiti;
06:33
I don't know what it is, but apparently,
from reading a lot of the data,
from reading a lot of the data,
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ne znam koji to, ali navodno,
prema iščitanim podatcima,
prema iščitanim podatcima,
06:37
we can embrace about five
to nine alternatives, and after that,
to nine alternatives, and after that,
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možemo prihvatiti od pet do devet
alternativa, a poslije toga
alternativa, a poslije toga
06:42
you get into what academics
call "cognitive overload,"
call "cognitive overload,"
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ulazimo u ono što znalci nazivaju
kognitivnim preopterećenjem
kognitivnim preopterećenjem
06:45
and you don't choose any.
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nakon kojega ne izabirete nikoga.
06:48
So I've come to think that due
to this cognitive overload,
to this cognitive overload,
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Zbog ovog kognitivnog preopterećenja
06:51
we're ushering in a new form of courtship
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javlja nam se novi oblik udvaranja
06:54
that I call "slow love."
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koji ja nazivam usporena ljubavi.
06:57
I arrived at this during
my work with Match.com.
my work with Match.com.
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Do tog sam zaključka došla
radeći na stranici Match.com.
radeći na stranici Match.com.
07:01
Every year for the last six years,
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U zadnjih šest godina svake godine
07:03
we've done a study called
"Singles in America."
"Singles in America."
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provodimo istraživanje
pod nazivom "Samci u Americi".
pod nazivom "Samci u Americi".
07:05
We don't poll the Match population,
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Ne ispitujemo
populaciju naše stranice,
populaciju naše stranice,
07:07
we poll the American population.
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već populaciju Amerike.
07:09
We use 5,000-plus people,
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Uzmemo 5 000 i više ljudi,
07:12
a representative sample of Americans
based on the US census.
based on the US census.
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što je reprezentativni uzorak
SAD-a prema popisu stanovnika.
SAD-a prema popisu stanovnika.
07:16
We've got data now on over 30,000 people,
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Prikupili smo podatke 30 000 ljudi
07:19
and every single year,
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i svake godine
07:21
I see some of the same patterns.
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uviđam neke od istih obrazaca.
07:24
Every single year when I ask the question,
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Svake godine kad postavim pitanje,
07:27
over 50 percent of people
have had a one-night stand --
have had a one-night stand --
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preko 50% ljudi imalo je
vezu za jednu noć,
vezu za jednu noć,
07:30
not necessarily last year,
but in their lives --
but in their lives --
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ne nužno prošle godine,
ali tijekom života -
ali tijekom života -
07:32
50 percent have had
a friends with benefits
a friends with benefits
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2273
50% ljudi imalo je
prijatelja s povlasticama
prijatelja s povlasticama
07:35
during the course of their lives,
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tijekom svog života,
07:36
and over 50 percent have lived
with a person long-term
with a person long-term
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a preko 50% ljudi dugoročno je
živjelo s drugom osobom
živjelo s drugom osobom
07:40
before marrying.
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prije braka.
07:41
Americans think that this is reckless.
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Amerikanci misle da je to nepromišljeno.
07:43
I have doubted that for a long time;
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Dugo sam u to sumnjala;
07:46
the patterns are too strong.
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obrasci ponašanja su prejaki.
07:48
There's got to be some
Darwinian explanation --
Darwinian explanation --
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Mora postojati neko darvinsko objašnjenje.
07:51
Not that many people are crazy.
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Nije baš toliko ljudi ludo.
07:53
And I stumbled, then, on a statistic
that really came home to me.
that really came home to me.
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Naišla sam na statistički podatak
koji mi je sve razjasnio.
koji mi je sve razjasnio.
07:58
It was a very interesting academic article
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Bio je to zanimljiv akademski članak
08:00
in which I found that 67 percent
of singles in America today
of singles in America today
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u kojem sam saznala
da 67% samaca u Americi
da 67% samaca u Americi
08:05
who are living long-term with somebody,
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koji dugoročno žive s nekim
08:08
have not yet married because
they are terrified of divorce.
they are terrified of divorce.
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nisu se još vjenčali
jer strahuju od razvoda.
jer strahuju od razvoda.
08:12
They're terrified of the social,
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Strahuju od društvenih,
08:14
legal, emotional,
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pravnih, emocionalnih
08:15
economic consequences of divorce.
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i ekonomskih posljedica razvoda.
08:18
So I came to realize that I don't think
this is recklessness;
this is recklessness;
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Shvatila sam da to nije nemar -
08:22
I think it's caution.
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mislim da je to oprez.
08:24
Today's singles want to know
every single thing about a partner
every single thing about a partner
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Današnji samci žele znati
baš sve o svome partneru
baš sve o svome partneru
08:29
before they wed.
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1629
prije nego što se vjenčaju.
08:31
You learn a lot between the sheets,
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1929
Puno se toga nauči ispod plahti,
08:33
not only about how somebody makes love,
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ne samo o tome kako netko vodi ljubav
08:35
but whether they're kind,
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već i o tome
jesu li srdačni,
jesu li srdačni,
08:37
whether they can listen
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znaju li slušati,
08:38
and at my age,
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a u mojim godinama,
08:39
whether they've got a sense of humor.
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imaju li dobar smisao za humor.
08:41
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:43
And in an age where we have
too many choices,
too many choices,
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U današnje doba kada imamo previše izbora,
08:47
we have very little fear
of pregnancy and disease
of pregnancy and disease
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premalo se bojimo trudnoće i bolesti
08:50
and we've got no feeling of shame
for sex before marriage,
for sex before marriage,
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i ne sramimo se seksa prije braka,
08:54
I think people are taking
their time to love.
their time to love.
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ljudima se ne žuri voljeti.
08:58
And actually, what's happening is,
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I događa se to
09:00
what we're seeing is a real expansion
of the precommitment stage
of the precommitment stage
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da se produžuje faza
koja prethodi obvezivanju
koja prethodi obvezivanju
09:03
before you tie the knot.
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531968
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na brak.
09:06
Where marriage used to be
the beginning of a relationship,
the beginning of a relationship,
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Nekoć je brak bio početak veze,
09:08
now it's the finale.
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a sada je njezin vrhunac.
09:11
But the human brain --
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1740
Ali ljudski mozak --
09:13
(Laughter)
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2009
(Smijeh)
09:15
The human brain always triumphs,
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1814
ljudski mozak uvijek pobjeđuje
09:17
and indeed, in the United States today,
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i u SAD-u
09:18
86 percent of Americans
will marry by age 49.
will marry by age 49.
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86% Amerikanaca
oženit će se do 49. godine.
oženit će se do 49. godine.
09:22
And even in cultures around the world
where they're not marrying as often,
where they're not marrying as often,
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Čak i u kulturama diljem svijeta
gdje ženidba nije tako česta
gdje ženidba nije tako česta
09:26
they are settling down eventually
with a long-term partner.
with a long-term partner.
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stanovnici se na kraju skrase
s dugoročnim partnerom.
s dugoročnim partnerom.
09:29
So it began to occur to me:
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1835
Počela sam razmišljati:
09:31
during this long extension
of the precommitment stage,
of the precommitment stage,
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ako se tijekom ovog dugog razdoblja
koje prethodi obvezivanju,
koje prethodi obvezivanju,
09:35
if you can get rid of bad
relationships before you marry,
relationships before you marry,
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možete riješiti loše veze
prije nego što se vjenčate,
prije nego što se vjenčate,
09:39
maybe we're going to see
more happy marriages.
more happy marriages.
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možda ćemo sada imati
više sretnih brakova.
više sretnih brakova.
09:41
So I did a study of 1,100
married people in America --
married people in America --
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Provela sam istraživanje na
1 100 američkih bračnih parova --
1 100 američkih bračnih parova --
09:46
not on Match.com, of course --
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1727
naravno, ne na stranici Match.com --
09:48
and I asked them a lot of questions.
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i postavila sam im puno pitanja.
09:50
But one of the questions was,
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1507
Jedno od pitanja glasilo je:
09:52
"Would you re-marry the person
you're currently married to?"
you're currently married to?"
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4572
biste li se ponovo vjenčali za osobu
s kojom ste trenutno u braku?
s kojom ste trenutno u braku?
09:56
And 81 percent said, "Yes."
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2865
Odgovor je bio u 81% slučajeva bio da.
10:00
In fact, the greatest change
in modern romance and family life
in modern romance and family life
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Najveća promjena
u modernoj romantici i obiteljskom životu
u modernoj romantici i obiteljskom životu
10:07
is not technology.
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1400
nije tehnologija,
10:09
It's not even slow love.
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1494
a nije čak ni usporena ljubav,
10:11
It's actually women
piling into the job market
piling into the job market
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2951
već navala žena na burzu rada
10:14
in cultures around the world.
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602022
1423
u kulturama diljem svijeta.
10:15
For millions of years,
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Milijunima godina
10:17
our ancestors lived
in little hunting and gathering groups.
in little hunting and gathering groups.
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naši su predci živjeli
u lovačko-sakupljačkim društvima.
u lovačko-sakupljačkim društvima.
10:20
Women commuted to work
to gather their fruits and vegetables.
to gather their fruits and vegetables.
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Žene su putovale na posao
kako bi skupljale voće i povrće.
kako bi skupljale voće i povrće.
10:22
They came home with 60 to 80
percent of the evening meal.
percent of the evening meal.
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3510
Vraćale su se kući sa 60% - 80% večere.
10:26
The double-income family was the rule.
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Obitelj dvostrukog dohotka
bila je pravilo,
bila je pravilo,
10:29
And women were regarded
as just as economically, socially
as just as economically, socially
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3941
a žene su smatrane
jednako ekonomski, društveno
jednako ekonomski, društveno
10:33
and sexually powerful as men.
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i seksualno moćne kao i muškarci.
10:36
Then the environment changed
some 10,000 years ago,
some 10,000 years ago,
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3102
Okolina se nekako promijenio
prije 10 000 godina.
prije 10 000 godina.
10:39
we began to settle down on the farm
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2229
Počeli smo se nastanjivati na farmama
10:41
and both men and women
became obliged, really,
became obliged, really,
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3191
i žene i muškarci
nekako su postali prisiljeni
nekako su postali prisiljeni
10:44
to marry the right person,
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1572
vjenčati se za pravu osobu
10:46
from the right background,
229
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1430
pravog porijekla,
10:47
from the right religion
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635942
1303
pripadnika prave religije,
10:49
and from the right kin
and social and political connections.
and social and political connections.
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3538
iz prave obitelji,
društvenih i političkih veza.
društvenih i političkih veza.
10:52
Men's jobs became more important:
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1594
Muški poslovi postadoše važniji:
10:54
they had to move the rocks,
fell the trees, plow the land.
fell the trees, plow the land.
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2737
morali su micati kamenje,
rušiti drva, obrađivati zemlju.
rušiti drva, obrađivati zemlju.
10:57
They brought the produce
to local markets, and came home
to local markets, and came home
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2924
Opskrbljivali su lokalne trgovine
proizvodima i kući donosili
proizvodima i kući donosili
11:00
with the equivalent of money.
235
648158
1514
njihovu protuvrijednost.
11:01
Along with this,
236
649696
1546
Uz to
11:03
we see a rise of a host of beliefs:
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2977
uvriježila su se određena uvjerenja:
11:06
the belief of virginity at marriage,
238
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2182
djevičanstvo prije braka,
11:08
arranged marriages --
strictly arranged marriages --
strictly arranged marriages --
239
656473
2943
ugovoreni brakovi
- strogo ugovoreni brakovi -
- strogo ugovoreni brakovi -
11:11
the belief that the man
is the head of the household,
is the head of the household,
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2527
uvjerenje da je muškarac glava kuće,
11:13
that the wife's place is in the home
241
661991
2239
a da je ženi mjesto u njoj
11:16
and most important,
242
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1153
i što je najvažnije -
11:17
honor thy husband,
and 'til death do us part.
and 'til death do us part.
243
665431
3131
poštuj muža svoga
i dok nas smrt ne rastavi.
i dok nas smrt ne rastavi.
11:20
These are gone.
244
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1722
Toga više nema.
11:22
They are going, and in many places,
245
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2549
Ova uvjerenja nestaju, a posvuda su
11:24
they are gone.
246
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1388
već i nestala.
11:26
We are right now in a marriage revolution.
247
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3423
Trenutno se nalazimo u bračnoj revoluciji.
11:29
We are shedding 10,000 years
of our farming tradition
of our farming tradition
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4715
Odbacujemo poljoprivrednu tradiciju
staru deset tisuća godina,
staru deset tisuća godina,
11:34
and moving forward towards egalitarian
relationships between the sexes --
relationships between the sexes --
249
682503
5626
a prihvaćamo egalitaran
odnos među spolovima -
odnos među spolovima -
11:40
something I regard as highly compatible
with the ancient human spirit.
with the ancient human spirit.
250
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4815
nešto što je sukladno
pradavnom ljudskom duhu.
pradavnom ljudskom duhu.
11:45
I'm not a Pollyanna;
251
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1702
Nisam blesava;
11:47
there's a great deal to cry about.
252
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1761
treba žaliti za odbačenim.
11:49
I've studied divorce in 80 cultures,
253
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1746
Proučavala sam razvod u 80 kultura,
11:50
I've studied, as I say,
adultery in many --
adultery in many --
254
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2136
i prevaru u mnogima
11:53
there's a whole pile of problems.
255
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1816
i ima tu puno problema.
11:54
As William Butler Yeats,
the poet, once said,
the poet, once said,
256
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3192
Kao što je William Butler Yeats rekao:
11:58
"Love is the crooked thing."
257
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2465
"Ljubav je nepredvidljiva."
12:01
I would add, "Nobody gets out alive."
258
709131
2790
Dodala bih: "I svi od nje pogibamo."
12:03
(Laughter)
259
711945
1095
(Smijeh)
12:05
We all have problems.
260
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1467
Svi imamo problema,
12:06
But in fact, I think the poet
Randall Jarrell really sums it up best.
Randall Jarrell really sums it up best.
261
714925
3604
ali mislim da je pjesnik Randall Jarrell
to najbolje objasnio:
to najbolje objasnio:
12:10
He said, "The dark, uneasy world
of family life --
of family life --
262
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4999
"Mračan, mučan svijet obiteljskog života -
12:15
where the greatest can fail,
and the humblest succeed."
and the humblest succeed."
263
723576
4518
tu i najbolji padaju,
a i najponizniji se uzdižu."
a i najponizniji se uzdižu."
12:20
But I will leave you with this:
264
728779
1887
Zapamtite ovo:
12:22
love and attachment will prevail,
265
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2728
ljubav i privrženost ostaju,
12:25
technology cannot change it.
266
733442
2533
tehnologija to ne može promijeniti.
12:27
And I will conclude by saying
267
735999
1838
Zaključit ću riječima:
12:29
any understanding of human relationships
must take into account
must take into account
268
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5246
svaki pokušaj razumijevanja
ljudskih odnosa mora uzeti u obzir
ljudskih odnosa mora uzeti u obzir
12:35
one the most powerful determinants
of human behavior:
of human behavior:
269
743131
4225
jedno od najmoćnijih odrednica
ljudskog ponašanja:
ljudskog ponašanja:
12:39
the unquenchable,
270
747380
1218
neutaživ,
12:41
adaptable
271
749217
1165
prilagodljiv,
12:42
and primordial human drive to love.
272
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3006
iskonski ljudski nagon za ljubav.
12:45
Thank you.
273
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1152
Hvala vam.
12:46
(Applause)
274
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3022
(Pljesak)
12:51
Kelly Stoetzel: Thank you
so much for that, Helen.
so much for that, Helen.
275
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2381
Kelly Stoetzel: Hvala ti, Helen!
12:54
As you know, there's another
speaker here with us
speaker here with us
276
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2309
Kao što znaš, imamo još jednog govornika
12:56
that works in your same field.
277
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1550
koji se bavi tvojim područjem.
12:58
She comes at it
from a different perspective.
from a different perspective.
278
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2431
Ona tome prilazi iz druge perspektive.
13:00
Esther Perel is a psychotherapist
who works with couples.
who works with couples.
279
768682
4637
Esther Perel psihoterapeutkinja je
za parove.
za parove.
13:05
You study data,
280
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1293
Ti proučavaš podatke,
13:07
Esther studies the stories
the couples tell her
the couples tell her
281
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2500
a ona priče koje joj parovi ispričaju
13:09
when they come to her for help.
282
777590
2028
kada joj dođu u potrazi za pomoći.
13:11
Let's have her join us on the stage.
283
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1724
Pridruži nam se na pozornici,
13:13
Esther?
284
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1151
Esther.
13:14
(Applause)
285
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3131
(Pljesak)
13:22
So Esther,
286
790249
1246
Esther,
13:23
when you were watching Helen's talk,
287
791519
2272
slušajući Helenin govor,
13:25
was there any part of it
288
793815
1206
je li ti se neki dio
13:27
that resonated with you
through the lens of your own work
through the lens of your own work
289
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2767
učinio već viđenim u tvom radu,
13:29
that you'd like to comment on?
290
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1585
a koji bi željela prokomentirati?
13:32
Esther Perel: It's interesting,
because on the one hand,
because on the one hand,
291
800062
3579
Esther Perel: zanimljivo je
jer je u jednu ruku
jer je u jednu ruku
13:35
the need for love
is ubiquitous and universal.
is ubiquitous and universal.
292
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3829
potreba za ljubavi
sveprisutna i univerzalna,
sveprisutna i univerzalna,
13:39
But the way we love --
293
807965
1964
ali način na koji volimo --
13:41
the meaning we make out of it --
294
809953
1530
značenje koje mu pridajemo --
13:43
the rules that govern
our relationships, I think,
our relationships, I think,
295
811507
2325
pravila koja vode naše odnose
13:45
are changing fundamentally.
296
813856
2027
značajno se mijenjaju.
13:47
We come from a model that, until now,
297
815907
2900
Do sada smo radili prema modelu
13:50
was primarily regulated
around duty and obligation,
around duty and obligation,
298
818831
3463
koji je reguliran dužnostima i obvezama,
13:54
the needs of the collective and loyalty.
299
822318
2397
potrebama kolektiva i odanosti,
13:56
And we have shifted it
300
824739
1180
a sada prelazimo
13:57
to a model of free choice
and individual rights,
and individual rights,
301
825943
4330
na model slobodnog izbora i osobnih prava,
14:02
and self-fulfillment and happiness.
302
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3076
samoostvarenja i sreće.
14:05
And so, that was
the first thing I thought,
the first thing I thought,
303
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2320
To sam prvo pomislila -
14:07
that the need doesn't change,
304
835741
1768
ta se potreba ne treba mijenjati,
14:09
but the context and the way
we regulate these relationships
we regulate these relationships
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ali kontekst i način
na koji reguliramo te odnose
na koji reguliramo te odnose
14:13
changes a lot.
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uvelike se mijenjaju.
14:14
On the paradox of choice --
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Što se tiče paradoksa izbora,
14:18
you know, on the one hand
we relish the novelty
we relish the novelty
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čini mi se kao da uživamo u neobičnosti
14:21
and the playfulness, I think,
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i zaigranosti
14:22
to be able to have so many options.
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koju veća mogućnost izbora donosi,
14:25
And at the same time,
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a istovremeno,
14:26
as you talk about this cognitive overload,
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kako ste govorili
o kognitivnom preopterećenju,
o kognitivnom preopterećenju,
14:29
I see many, many people who ...
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primjećujem mnogo ljudi
14:34
who dread the uncertainty and self-doubt
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koji se užasavaju nesigurnosti
i sumnji u sebe same
i sumnji u sebe same
14:38
that comes with this massa of choice,
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koja nastaje uslijed
ovolike količine izbora.
ovolike količine izbora.
14:41
creating a case of "FOMO"
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Time nastaje SOPP
14:43
and then leading us --
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koji nas vodi -
14:45
FOMO, fear of missed opportunity,
or fear of missing out --
or fear of missing out --
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SOPP, strah od propuštenih prilika,
odnosno strah od propuštanja -
odnosno strah od propuštanja -
14:48
it's like, "How do I know
I have found 'the one' --
I have found 'the one' --
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i tjera nas da se zapitamo kako znamo
da smo našli pravoga -
da smo našli pravoga -
14:51
the right one?"
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onog pravog.
14:52
So we've created what I call
this thing of "stable ambiguity."
this thing of "stable ambiguity."
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Stvorili smo nešto što ja nazivam
stabilnom nejasnoćom.
stabilnom nejasnoćom.
14:56
Stable ambiguity is when
you are too afraid to be alone
you are too afraid to be alone
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Stabilna nejasnoća nastaje
kad se previše bojimo biti sami,
kad se previše bojimo biti sami,
15:00
but also not really willing
to engage in intimacy-building.
to engage in intimacy-building.
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ali ne želimo stvarati intimnost.
15:04
It's a set of tactics that kind of prolong
the uncertainty of a relationship
the uncertainty of a relationship
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To je niz taktika koje produžuju
nesigurnost odnosa,
nesigurnost odnosa,
15:09
but also the uncertainty of the breakup.
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ali i nesigurnost prekida.
15:12
So, here on the internet
you have three major ones.
you have three major ones.
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Na internetu razlikujemo
tri takve taktike.
tri takve taktike.
15:15
One is icing and simmering,
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Prva: zahlađenje i zakuhavanje.
15:17
which are great stalling tactics
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To su sjajne taktike
ako si želite kupiti vremena,
ako si želite kupiti vremena,
15:20
that offer a kind of holding pattern
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a pružaju pasivnost
15:23
that emphasizes the undefined
nature of a relationship
nature of a relationship
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koja naglašava nedefiniranu narav odnosa,
15:26
but at the same time gives you
enough of a comforting consistency
enough of a comforting consistency
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914906
4107
ali istovremeno vam daje
dovoljno utješne dosljednosti
dovoljno utješne dosljednosti
15:31
and enough freedom
of the undefined boundaries.
of the undefined boundaries.
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i dovoljno slobode neodređenih granica.
15:33
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
15:36
Yeah?
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Da?
15:37
And then comes ghosting.
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Druga: iščezavanje.
15:38
And ghosting is, basically,
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926836
1972
Iščezavanje je
15:40
you disappear from this massa
of texts on the spot,
of texts on the spot,
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4520
kada nestanete s platforme za dopisivanje
15:45
and you don't have to deal with
the pain that you inflict on another,
the pain that you inflict on another,
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933376
3785
i tada se ne morate nositi s boli
koju nanosite drugima
koju nanosite drugima
15:49
because you're making it
invisible even to yourself.
invisible even to yourself.
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2598
jer je nevidljiva i vama.
15:51
(Laughter)
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939807
1187
(Smijeh)
15:53
Yeah?
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1158
Da?
15:54
So I was thinking -- these words came up
for me as I was listening to you,
for me as I was listening to you,
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942200
4737
Razmišljala sam - ove su mi riječi
same došle dok sam vas slušala,
same došle dok sam vas slušala,
15:58
like how a vocabulary
also creates a reality,
also creates a reality,
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5163
kako rječnik također stvara stvarnost,
16:04
and at the same time,
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a to je istovremeno
16:05
that's my question to you:
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moje pitanje za vas:
16:07
Do you think when the context changes,
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Kada se promijeni kontekst, mislite li
16:10
it still means that the nature
of love remains the same?
of love remains the same?
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da narav ljubavi ostaje ista?
16:14
You study the brain and I study
people's relationships and stories,
people's relationships and stories,
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4098
Vi proučavate mozak, a ja
ljudske odnose i priče,
ljudske odnose i priče,
16:18
so I think it's everything you say, plus.
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pa mislim da vrijedi
sve ono što ste rekli i još ponešto.
sve ono što ste rekli i još ponešto.
16:22
But I don't always know the degree
to which a changing context ...
to which a changing context ...
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970691
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Ne znam uvijek do koje razine
promjena konteksta...
promjena konteksta...
16:27
Does it at some point begin to change --
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975451
2530
Počinje li se mijenjati
u određenom trenutku --
u određenom trenutku --
16:30
If the meaning changes,
does it change the need,
does it change the need,
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978005
2613
ako se značenje promijeni,
mijenja li se i potreba,
mijenja li se i potreba,
16:32
or is the need clear
of the entire context?
of the entire context?
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980642
2463
ili je potreba neovisna o kontekstu?
16:35
HF: Wow! Well --
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1420
HF: Opa! Pa --
16:37
(Laughter)
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2431
(Smijeh)
16:39
(Applause)
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3175
(Pljesak)
16:42
Well, I've got three points here, right?
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990895
2968
Imam tri stvari za reći, zar ne?
16:46
First of all, to your first one:
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994736
1826
Prvo, kao odgovor
na vaš prvi argument:
na vaš prvi argument:
16:48
there's no question that we've changed,
that we now want a person to love,
that we now want a person to love,
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996586
3593
nesumnjivo smo se promijenili,
sada želimo osobu koju ćemo voljeti,
sada želimo osobu koju ćemo voljeti,
16:52
and for thousands of years,
we had to marry the right person
we had to marry the right person
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a tisućama godina,
morali smo se vjenčati za pravu osobu
morali smo se vjenčati za pravu osobu
16:55
from the right background
and right connection.
and right connection.
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2271
pravog porijekla i s pravim vezama.
16:57
And in fact, in my studies
of 5,000 people every year,
of 5,000 people every year,
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1005367
3351
U biti, u mojim istraživanjima
od 5 000 ljudi godišnje
od 5 000 ljudi godišnje
17:00
I ask them, "What are you looking for?"
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1008742
2126
pitam ih što traže.
17:02
And every single year,
over 97 percent say --
over 97 percent say --
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1010892
2758
Svake godine,
preko 97 % ispitanika odgovara:
preko 97 % ispitanika odgovara:
17:05
EP: The list grows --
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1013674
1210
EP: Popis traženog raste.
17:06
HF: Well, no.
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1014908
1160
HF: Pa ne baš.
17:08
The basic thing is
over 97 percent of people
over 97 percent of people
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1016092
3323
Preko 97% ljudi
17:11
want somebody that respects them,
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1019439
2091
želi nekoga tko ih poštuje,
17:13
somebody they can trust and confide in,
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1021554
2288
nekoga kome mogu vjerovati i povjeriti se,
17:15
somebody who makes them laugh,
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1023866
1656
nekoga tko ih nasmijava,
17:17
somebody who makes enough time for them
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1025546
1882
nekoga tko će izdvojiti vrijeme za njih
17:19
and somebody who they find
physically attractive.
physically attractive.
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1027452
3997
i nekoga tko im je fizički privlačan.
17:23
That never changes.
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1031473
1283
To je konstanta.
17:24
And there's certainly -- you know,
there's two parts --
there's two parts --
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1032780
3178
A svakako postoje dva dijela --
17:27
EP: But you know how I call that?
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1035982
1580
EP: Znate li kako ja to nazivam?
17:29
That's not what people used to say --
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1037586
2250
To ljudi nisu prije govorili --
17:31
HF: That's exactly right.
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1039860
1230
HF: Upravo tako.
17:33
EP: They said they wanted somebody
with whom they have companionship,
with whom they have companionship,
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3299
EP: Govorili su da žele nekoga za društvo,
17:36
economic support, children.
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1044437
1291
ekonomsku podršku, djecu.
17:37
We went from a production economy
to a service economy.
to a service economy.
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1045752
2586
Prešli smo iz proizvodne
u uslužnu ekonomiju.
u uslužnu ekonomiju.
17:40
(Laughter)
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1048362
1009
(Smijeh)
17:41
We did it in the larger culture,
and we're doing it in marriage.
and we're doing it in marriage.
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1049395
2981
Uvelike smo to učinili u kulturi,
a sada to činimo i u braku.
a sada to činimo i u braku.
17:44
HF: Right, no question about it.
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1052400
1548
HF: Točno, to uopće nije upitno.
17:45
But it's interesting, the millennials
actually want to be very good parents,
actually want to be very good parents,
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1053972
3910
Milenijalci zaista
žele biti dobri roditelji,
žele biti dobri roditelji,
17:49
whereas the generation above them
wants to have a very fine marriage
wants to have a very fine marriage
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1057906
4120
dok starije generacije žele lijep brak,
17:54
but is not as focused
on being a good parent.
on being a good parent.
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1062050
2222
ali nisu toliko željni
biti dobri roditelji.
biti dobri roditelji.
17:56
You see all of these nuances.
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1064296
2083
Sve su te finese vidljive.
17:58
There's two basic parts of personality:
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1066403
2556
Osobnost se sastoji od dva osnovna dijela:
18:00
there's your culture -- everything you
grew up to do and believe and say --
grew up to do and believe and say --
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1068983
3575
kulturu -- sve što su vas odgajali
da činite, vjerujete i govorite --
da činite, vjerujete i govorite --
18:04
and there's your temperament.
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1072582
1399
i temperament.
18:06
Basically, what I've been talking
about is your temperament.
about is your temperament.
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1074005
2827
Ja sam ovdje govorila o temperamentu,
18:08
And that temperament is certainly
going to change with changing times
going to change with changing times
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1076856
3318
a on će se mijenjati
kako se mijenjaju i vremena
kako se mijenjaju i vremena
18:12
and changing beliefs.
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1080198
1301
i uvjerenja.
18:13
And in terms of the paradox of choice,
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1081891
3147
Po pitanju paradoksa izbora,
18:17
there's no question about it
that this is a pickle.
that this is a pickle.
395
1085062
2407
uopće nije upitno da je to nezgodno.
18:19
There were millions of years
where you found that sweet boy
where you found that sweet boy
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1087493
2864
Milijunima godina gledali smo zgodne dečke
18:22
at the other side of the water hole,
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1090381
1725
s druge strane bare
18:24
and you went for it.
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1092130
1151
i prepustili se.
18:25
EP: Yes, but you --
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1093305
1151
EP: Da, ali --
18:26
HF: I do want to say one more thing.
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1094480
1747
HF: Želim reći još nešto.
18:28
The bottom line is, in hunting
and gathering societies,
and gathering societies,
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1096251
2617
U konačnici društva lovaca sakupljača
18:30
they tended to have two or three partners
during the course of their lives.
during the course of their lives.
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1098892
3598
za života su imala po dva-tri partnera.
18:34
They weren't square!
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1102514
1158
Nije im bilo dosadno!
18:35
And I'm not suggesting that we do,
404
1103696
1656
Ne kažem da i mi tako živimo,
18:37
but the bottom line is,
we've always had alternatives.
we've always had alternatives.
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1105376
3976
ali uvijek smo imali alternative.
18:41
Mankind is always --
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1109376
1479
Čovječanstvo je oduvijek --
18:42
in fact, the brain is well-built
to what we call "equilibrate,"
to what we call "equilibrate,"
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1110879
3192
zapravo, mozak je "uravnoteženo" građen
18:46
to try and decide:
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1114095
1151
i odlučuje na temelju pokušaja:
18:47
Do I come, do I stay? Do I go, do I stay?
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1115270
2434
Hoću li doći i ostati?
Hoću li otići ili ostati?
Hoću li otići ili ostati?
18:49
What are the opportunities here?
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1548
Kakve mi ovo prilike pruža?
18:51
How do I handle this there?
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1119300
1302
Kako da se nosim s ovime?
18:52
And so I think we're seeing
another play-out of that now.
another play-out of that now.
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2961
Upravo gledamo drugu verziju toga.
18:56
KS: Well, thank you both so much.
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KS: Hvala vam objema.
18:57
I think you're going to have
a million dinner partners for tonight!
a million dinner partners for tonight!
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3206
Mislim da ćete večeras imati
milijun partnera za večeru.
milijun partnera za večeru.
19:00
(Applause)
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1128929
1979
(Pljesak)
19:02
Thank you, thank you.
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1130932
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Hvala vam, hvala vam.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Helen Fisher - Anthropologist, expert on loveAnthropologist Helen Fisher studies gender differences and the evolution of human emotions. She’s best known as an expert on romantic love.
Why you should listen
Fisher's several books lay bare the mysteries of our most treasured emotion: its evolution, its biochemical foundations and its vital importance to human society. Fisher describes love as a universal human drive (stronger than the sex drive; stronger than thirst or hunger; stronger perhaps than the will to live), and her many areas of inquiry shed light on timeless human mysteries like why we choose one partner over another. Her classic study, Anatomy of Love, first published in 1992, has just been re-issued in a fully updated edition, including her recent neuroimaging research on lust, romantic love and attachment as well as discussions of sexting, hooking up, friends with benefits, other contemporary trends in courtship and marriage, and a dramatic current trend she calls “slow love.”
Helen Fisher | Speaker | TED.com