ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Stephen Coleman - Ethicist
Stephen Coleman studies applied ethics, particularly the ethics of military and police force, and their application to human rights.

Why you should listen
Dr. Stephen Cole­man is Senior Lec­turer in Ethics and Lead­er­ship and Vin­cent Fair­fax Foun­da­tion Fel­low in the School of Human­i­ties and Social Sci­ences, UNSW@ADFA.
 
Coleman works in a diverse range of areas in applied ethics, includ­ing mil­i­tary ethics, police ethics, med­ical ethics, and the prac­ti­cal appli­ca­tions of human rights. He has pub­lished and pre­sented in var­i­ous forms in Aus­tralia, the United States, the United King­dom, New Zealand and Hong Kong. He recently spent an aca­d­e­mic year as the Res­i­dent Fel­low at the Stock­dale Cen­ter for Eth­i­cal Lead­er­ship at the United States Naval Acad­emy, where he was part of a large research project exam­in­ing the eth­i­cal impli­ca­tions of var­i­ous new and devel­op­ing mil­i­tary tech­nolo­gies. This project helped to brief the Depart­ment of Defense, the US Con­gress and the White House on these issues.
 
He can also make bal­loon and origami ani­mals, jug­gle, breathe fire and ride a uni­cy­cle, though not all at the same time. 
More profile about the speaker
Stephen Coleman | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxCanberra

Stephen Coleman: Non-lethal weapons, a moral hazard?

斯蒂芬 科尔曼: 非致命武器的道德危机

Filmed:
538,518 views

胡椒雾剂和高压眩晕枪被警察和军队使用的越来越多,更多的异国的非致命武器,例如热射线正在储备中。在TEDx堪培拉,伦理学家斯蒂芬 科尔曼探索了引进它们(非致命武器)之后意想不到的后果并且提出了一些具有挑战性的问题
- Ethicist
Stephen Coleman studies applied ethics, particularly the ethics of military and police force, and their application to human rights. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:15
What I want to talk to you about today今天
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今天我想要想大家谈论的
00:17
is some of the problems问题 that the military军事 of the Western西 world世界 --
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是关于西方国家军队--
00:21
Australia澳大利亚, United联合的 States状态, U.K. and so on --
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澳大利亚,美国,英国等等--
00:24
face面对 in some of the deployments部署
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面临着一些
00:26
that they're dealing交易 with in the modern现代 world世界 at this time.
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对付现代世界的部署的问题
00:29
If you think about the sorts排序 of things
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如果你想到的是那些
00:31
that we've我们已经 sent发送 Australian澳大利亚 military军事 personnel人员 to in recent最近 years年份,
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近几年我们将澳大利亚军队派遣到
00:34
we've我们已经 got obvious明显 things like Iraq伊拉克 and Afghanistan阿富汗,
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明显的是如伊拉克和阿富汗,
00:37
but you've also got things like East Timor
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但是你也能想到东帝坟
00:39
and the Solomon所罗门 Islands岛屿 and so on.
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和所罗门群岛
00:41
And a lot of these deployments部署
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这些部署
00:43
that we're actually其实 sending发出 military军事 personnel人员 to these days
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如今我们实际上派遣军队去的
00:46
aren't traditional传统 wars战争.
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并非是传统的战争
00:48
In fact事实, a lot of the jobs工作
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事实上,很多工作
00:50
that we're asking the military军事 personnel人员 to do in these situations情况
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在这些情况下我们要求军队去做的
00:53
are ones那些 that, in their own拥有 countries国家, in Australia澳大利亚, the United联合的 States状态 and so on,
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是那些在他们自己的国家,在澳大利亚,在美国等等,
00:56
would actually其实 be doneDONE by police警察 officers长官.
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可以被警察完成的(任务)
00:59
And so there's a bunch of problems问题 that come up
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因此让军队处在这中情况下
01:01
for military军事 personnel人员 in these situations情况,
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出现了很多的问题
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because they're doing things that they haven't没有 really been trained熟练 for,
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因为他们在做一些从未被训练过的(任务)
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and they're doing things
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他们做一些
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that those who do them in their own拥有 countries国家
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其他人在他们自己国家
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are trained熟练 very differently不同 for
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被训练的十分的不同
01:13
and equipped装备 very differently不同 for.
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并且整装也十分的不相同(的任务)
01:15
Now there's a bunch of reasons原因 why
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现在这里有很多的原因为什么
01:17
we actually其实 do send发送 military军事 personnel人员
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我们实际上将军队派遣去
01:19
rather than police警察 to do these jobs工作.
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而非警察去做这些工作
01:21
If Australia澳大利亚 had to send发送 a thousand people tomorrow明天
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打个比方,如果澳大利亚明天需要派遣一千人
01:24
to West西 Papua巴布亚 for example,
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去新几内亚
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we don't have a thousand police警察 officers长官 hanging around
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我们没有一千名闲置的警察可以
01:28
that could just go tomorrow明天
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明天出发
01:30
and we do have a thousand soldiers士兵 that could go.
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我们却有一千名士兵可以去
01:32
So when we have to send发送 someone有人, we send发送 the military军事 --
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所以当我们需要派遣什么人的时候,我们派遣军队--
01:35
because they're there, they're available可得到
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因为他们就在那里,他们是闲置的
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and, heck赫克, they're used to going off and doing these things
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并且,他们习惯于紧急行动
01:39
and living活的 by themselves他们自己
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和自我生存
01:41
and not having all this extra额外 support支持.
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并且是在完全没有外部支持(的条件下)
01:43
So they are able能够 to do it in that sense.
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因此他们理所应当可以做那些(派遣任务)
01:45
But they aren't trained熟练 in the same相同 way that police警察 officers长官 are
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但是他们没有被警察一样培训
01:48
and they're certainly当然 not equipped装备 in the same相同 way police警察 officers长官 are.
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他们当然也不能像警察一样的武装装备
01:51
And so this has raised上调 a bunch of problems问题 for them
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因此当处理类似于这类问题的时候
01:53
when dealing交易 with these sorts排序 of issues问题.
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对他们就产生了种种问题
01:55
One particular特定 thing that's come up
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一件很特别的事情
01:57
that I am especially特别 interested有兴趣 in
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正是我十分感兴趣的
01:59
is the question of whether是否,
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就是,
02:01
when we're sending发出 military军事 personnel人员 to do these sorts排序 of jobs工作,
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当我们把军队派遣去做这些工作时,
02:03
we ought应该 to be equipping装备 them differently不同,
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我们应该不同地武装他们,
02:05
and in particular特定, whether是否 we ought应该 to be giving them access访问
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然后特别是,我们是否应该给与他们
02:07
to some of the sorts排序 of non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 that police警察 have.
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警察拥有的(使用)非致命武器的接近(权力)
02:10
Since以来 they're doing some of these same相同 jobs工作,
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由于他们做的是类同的工作,
02:12
maybe they should have some of those things.
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他们也许应该拥有这些东西
02:14
And of course课程, there's a range范围 of places地方
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当然,这里有一系列的地方
02:16
where you'd think those things would be really useful有用.
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你认为那些东西应该是很有用的
02:18
So for example, when you've got military军事 checkpoints检查站.
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例如,当在军队的检查站
02:21
If people are approaching接近 these checkpoints检查站
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如果人们接近这些检查站
02:23
and the military军事 personnel人员 there are unsure不确定
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并且军人们不能确定
02:25
whether是否 this person's人的 hostile敌对 or not.
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这些人是否怀有敌意
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Say this person approaching接近 here,
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比如说这个人接近这里,
02:29
and they say, "Well is this a suicide自杀 bomber轰炸机 or not?
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他们说,‘这是不是个人体炸弹?
02:31
Have they got something hidden under their clothing服装? What's going to happen发生?"
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他们是不是在衣服底下藏了什么东西?将会发生什么事情?’
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They don't know whether是否 this person's人的 hostile敌对 or not.
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他们不知道这个人是否有敌意
02:35
If this person doesn't follow跟随 directions方向,
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如果这个人不按照指示行动
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then they may可能 end结束 up shooting射击 them
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他们就会最终射击他们
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and then find out afterward之后
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最后才发现
02:41
either, yes, we shot射击 the right person,
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或者,是的,我们射对了,
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or, no, this was just an innocent无辜 person
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又或者是,不,这仅仅是个无辜的
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who didn't understand理解 what was going on.
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不知道发生什么事情的人
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So if they had non-lethal非致命 weapons武器
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所以如果他们拥有非致命武器
02:49
then they would say, "Well we can use them in that sort分类 of situation情况.
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他们就可以说,‘我们在那种环境下可以用它们
02:51
If we shoot射击 someone有人 who wasn't hostile敌对,
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如果我们射击了一些没有敌意的人,
02:53
at least最小 we haven't没有 killed杀害 them."
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至少我们并没有杀死他们’
02:55
Another另一个 situation情况.
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另一种情况
02:57
This photo照片 is actually其实 from one of the missions任务
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这张照片实际上是
02:59
in the Balkans巴尔干 in the late晚了 1990s.
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一九九零年代末巴尔干半岛的一次任务
03:01
Situation's现状的 a little bit different不同
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情况是有点不同
03:03
where perhaps也许 they know someone有人 who's谁是 hostile敌对,
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在于他们大概知道谁是带有敌意
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where they've他们已经 got someone有人 shooting射击 at them
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在于他们被射击
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or doing something else其他 that's clearly明确地 hostile敌对, throwing投掷 rocks岩石, whatever随你.
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或者其他的一些明显带有敌意的行动,扔石头,任何东西
03:10
But if they respond响应, there's a range范围 of other people around,
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但是如果他们回击,这里有一群其他的人在身边,
03:13
who are innocent无辜 people who might威力 also get hurt伤害 --
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无辜的人们也会受到伤害--
03:16
be collateral抵押 damage损伤 that the military军事 often经常 doesn't want to talk about.
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会被牵连地受到伤害这也正是军队不愿意谈的
03:20
So again, they would say, "Well if we have access访问 to non-lethal非致命 weapons武器,
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再次,他们会说,‘如果我们有使用非致命武器的权力,
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if we've我们已经 got someone有人 we know is hostile敌对,
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如果我们知道哪些人是怀有敌意的,
03:24
we can do something to deal合同 with them
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我们可以处理他们
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and know that if we hit击中 anyone任何人 else其他 around the place地点,
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并且知道我们是否袭击了那个地方其他的人,
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at least最小, again, we're not going to kill them."
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至少,再次,我们不会杀了他们’
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Another另一个 suggestion建议 has been,
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另外一个建议
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since以来 we're putting so many许多 robots机器人 in the field领域,
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因为我们在战地伤安置了很多机器人,
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we can see the time coming未来
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我们可以看见
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where they're actually其实 going to be sending发出 robots机器人 out in the field领域 that are autonomous自主性.
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(那些机器人)被送到战地里是自动的
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They're going to make their own拥有 decisions决定 about who to shoot射击 and who not to shoot射击
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他们自己决定射击谁不射击谁
03:42
without a human人的 in the loop循环.
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在完全没有人类智慧参与的情况下
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And so the suggestion建议 is, well hey,
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因此建议是这样的,
03:46
if we're going to send发送 robots机器人 out and allow允许 them to do this,
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如果我们将机器人送出去并且允许他们做这些事情,
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maybe it would be a good idea理念, again, with these things
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这大概将是一个好主意,拥有这些东西
03:51
if they were armed武装 with non-lethal非致命 weapons武器
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如果他们以非致命武器武装起来
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so that if the robot机器人 makes品牌 a bad decision决定 and shoots the wrong错误 person,
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就算机器人做了个错误的决定射击了错误的对象
03:56
again, they haven't没有 actually其实 killed杀害 them.
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他们其实并没有杀死他们
03:58
Now there's a whole整个 range范围 of different不同 sorts排序 of non-lethal非致命 weapons武器,
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现在这里有一系列的非致命武器,
04:01
some of which哪一个 are obviously明显 available可得到 now,
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有些现在明显地可用,
04:03
some of which哪一个 they're developing发展.
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有些正在被开发
04:05
So you've got traditional传统 things like pepper胡椒 spray喷雾,
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你已经有了传统的(非致命武器)如胡椒雾剂,
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O.C. spray喷雾 up at the top最佳 there,
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(神经麻痹剂的)防暴喷剂在上面
04:09
or Tasers泰瑟枪 over here.
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又或者是高压眩晕枪
04:11
The one on the top最佳 right here is actually其实 a dazzling令人眼花缭乱 laser激光
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在右上边的这个实际上是一个耀眼激光
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intended to just blind the person momentarily瞬间
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用来使人瞬间变盲
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and disorient迷惑 them.
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并失去方向感
04:18
You've got non-lethal非致命 shotgun滑膛枪 rounds
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你有非致命短枪射出
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that contain包含 rubber橡胶 pellets小球
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橡皮子弹
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instead代替 of the traditional传统 metal金属 ones那些.
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替代传统的金属子弹
04:24
And this one in the middle中间 here, the large truck卡车,
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这个在中间的,大卡车
04:27
is actually其实 called the Active活性 Denial否认 System系统 --
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实际上被叫做主动拒止系统--
04:29
something the U.S. military军事 is working加工 on at the moment时刻.
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是个美军此时正在使用的(非致命武器)
04:32
It's essentially实质上 a big microwave微波 transmitter发射机.
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它实际上是一个巨型的微波发射机,
04:35
It's sort分类 of your classic经典 idea理念 of a heat ray射线.
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它就是你们传统想象中的热射线
04:38
It goes out to a really long distance距离,
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它可以射出非常长的距离
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compared相比 to any of these other sorts排序 of things.
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与其它类似的相比
04:43
And anybody任何人 who is hit击中 with this
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任何被它击中的人
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feels感觉 this sudden突然 burst爆裂 of heat
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感受到这种突然爆发的热
04:47
and just wants to get out of the way.
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就想从中挣脱出来
04:49
It is a lot more sophisticated复杂的 than a microwave微波 oven烤箱,
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它比微波炉更复杂,
04:52
but it is basically基本上 boiling沸腾 the water molecules分子
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但是它实际上煮沸
04:54
in the very surface表面 level水平 of your skin皮肤.
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你最上层皮肤上的水原子
04:56
So you feel this massive大规模的 heat,
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所以你感觉到大范围的热,
04:58
and you go, "I want to get out of the way."
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然后你就(叫喊),‘我想要脱离出来’
05:00
And they're thinking思维, well this will be really useful有用
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于是他们想,这将会很有用处
05:03
in places地方 like where we need to clear明确 a crowd人群 out of a particular特定 area,
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在那些我们想要在一个特定的地区清除一个人群
05:05
if the crowd人群 is being存在 hostile敌对.
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如果这个人群是有敌意的
05:07
If we need to keep people away from a particular特定 place地点,
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如果我们需要让人们远离一个特定的地方,
05:10
we can do that with these sorts排序 of things.
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我们可以用这些东西来做这样的事情
05:13
So obviously明显 there's a whole整个 range范围 of different不同 sorts排序
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因此很明显地这里有整个系列不同地
05:15
of non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 we could give military军事 personnel人员
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非致命武器我们给于军队士兵们
05:18
and there's a whole整个 range范围 of situations情况
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而且这里有一整个系列的情况
05:20
where they're looking a them and saying, "Hey, these things could be really useful有用."
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他们正在寻找并且说,‘嗨,这些东西真的很有用’
05:23
But as I said,
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但是我却说,
05:25
the military军事 and the police警察
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军队和警察
05:27
are very different不同.
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是很不同的
05:29
Yes, you don't have to look very hard at this
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是的,你不用非常仔细地去看
05:31
to recognize认识 the fact事实 that they might威力 be very different不同.
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才认识到他们是非常不同这一事实
05:33
In particular特定,
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特别地,
05:35
the attitude态度 to the use of force
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使用武力的态度
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and the way they're trained熟练 to use force
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和他们被训练的使用武力的方式
05:39
is especially特别 different不同.
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是特别得不同的
05:41
The police警察 --
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警察--
05:43
and knowing会心 because I've actually其实 helped帮助 to train培养 police警察 --
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我了解他们因为我曾经帮助训练过警察--
05:46
police警察, in particular特定 Western西 jurisdictions司法管辖区 at least最小,
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警察,特别是在西方司法至少,
05:49
are trained熟练 to de-escalate逐步降级 force,
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被训练的减弱对抗力,
05:52
to try and avoid避免 using运用 force
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试图并且避免使用军力
05:54
wherever哪里 possible可能,
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在任何情况下,
05:56
and to use lethal致命 force
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致命武器
05:58
only as an absolute绝对 last resort采取.
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仅仅做为最后手段来使用
06:01
Military军事 personnel人员 are being存在 trained熟练 for war战争,
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军队是为了战争而训练
06:04
so they're trained熟练 that, as soon不久 as things go bad,
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因此他们被训练的,只要事情变糟糕
06:07
their first response响应 is lethal致命 force.
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他们最首要的对应就是致命武器
06:11
The moment时刻 the fecal粪便 matter hits点击 the rotating旋转 turbine涡轮,
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当粪便袭击旋转涡轮,
06:15
you can start开始 shooting射击 at people.
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你就可以射击人群
06:18
So their attitudes态度
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所以他们
06:20
to the use of lethal致命 force are very different不同,
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使用致命武器的态度十分的不同,
06:22
and I think it's fairly相当 obvious明显
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我认为很明显的
06:24
that their attitude态度 to the use of non-lethal非致命 weapons武器
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他们对使用非致命武器的态度
06:27
would also be very different不同 from what it is with the police警察.
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也可以与对待警察的态度十分不同
06:30
And since以来 we've我们已经 already已经 had so many许多 problems问题
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因为我们已经有很多
06:32
with police警察 use of non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 in various各个 ways方法,
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关于警察以多种方式使用非致命武器的问题
06:35
I thought it would be a really good idea理念 to look at some of those things
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我觉得看待这些事情
06:38
and try to relate涉及 it to the military军事 context上下文.
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并且试图从以军队作为联系是一个好主意
06:40
And I was really surprised诧异 when I started开始 to do this,
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我十分惊讶当我开始做这些事情的时候
06:42
to see that, in fact事实,
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看这些,实际上,
06:44
even those people who were advocating主张 the use of non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 by the military军事
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甚至于这些军队里避免使用的非致命武器的
06:47
hadn't有没有 actually其实 doneDONE that.
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也实际上还没有做到那些
06:49
They generally通常 seem似乎 to think,
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他们大部分看起来是在想,
06:51
"Well, why would we care关心 what's happened发生 with the police警察?
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“那么,为什么我们要关心发生在警察
06:53
We're looking at something different不同,"
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我们在关注一些不同的东西,”
06:55
and didn't seem似乎 to recognize认识, in fact事实,
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似乎还没有认识到,实际上,
06:57
they were looking at pretty漂亮 much the same相同 stuff东东.
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他们在看待差不多一样的事情
06:59
So I actually其实 started开始 to investigate调查 some of those issues问题
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所以我实际上开始对这些问题进行调查
07:01
and have a look
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并且观察
07:03
at the way that police警察 use non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 when they're introduced介绍
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当警察被介绍使用非致命武器
07:06
and some of the problems问题 that might威力 arise出现
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和一些在这些事情之外
07:08
out of those sorts排序 of things
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可能发生的问题
07:10
when they actually其实 do introduce介绍 them.
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当它们(非致命武器)实际上被介绍给他们
07:12
And of course课程, being存在 Australian澳大利亚,
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当然,作为一名澳大利亚人,
07:14
I started开始 looking at stuff东东 in Australia澳大利亚,
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我从看澳大利亚的东西开始,
07:16
knowing会心, again, from my own拥有 experience经验 about various各个 times
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知道,再次,从我自己的经验知道
07:19
when non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 have been introduced介绍 in Australia澳大利亚.
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当非致命武器被引入澳大利亚的种种情况下
07:22
So one of the things I particularly尤其 looked看着 at
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有一件我特别注意的事情就是
07:24
was the use of O.C. spray喷雾,
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带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray),
07:26
oleoresin油树脂 capsicum辣椒 spray喷雾, pepper胡椒 spray喷雾,
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辣椒油树脂喷雾,胡椒雾剂,
07:28
by Australian澳大利亚 police警察
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被澳大利亚的警察使用
07:30
and seeing眼看 when that had been introduced介绍, what had happened发生
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看到它们被引进来,看到
07:32
and those sorts排序 of issues问题.
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有关于这些东西的问题
07:34
And one study研究 that I found发现,
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我发现了一项研究
07:36
a particularly尤其 interesting有趣 one,
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一个特别有意思的研究,
07:38
was actually其实 in Queensland昆士兰,
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实际上是(发生在)昆士兰州,
07:40
because they had a trial审讯 period for the use of pepper胡椒 spray喷雾
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因为在它们实际被广泛的引进之前
07:43
before they actually其实 introduced介绍 it more broadly宽广地.
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有一个使用胡椒雾剂的试用时间
07:46
And I went and had a look at some of the figures人物 here.
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我找到并且观察这些数据
07:49
Now when they introduced介绍 O.C. spray喷雾 in Queensland昆士兰,
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他们将带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)引进到昆士兰州,
07:51
they were really explicit明确的.
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是十分明确的
07:53
The police警察 minister部长 had a whole整个 heap of public上市 statements声明 made制作 about it.
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警察官有一堆关于这个的公文
07:56
They were saying, "This is explicitly明确地 intended
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公文上是,“这是明确地
07:58
to give police警察 an option选项
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给警察一个
08:00
between之间 shouting叫喊 and shooting射击.
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叫喊和射击的选择
08:03
This is something they can use instead代替 of a firearm火器
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这是可以替代武器而使用的
08:06
in those situations情况 where they would have previously先前 had to shoot射击 someone有人."
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在那些之前他们可以射击人们的情况下”
08:09
So I went and looked看着 at all of these police警察 shooting射击 figures人物.
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所以我搜集了所有那些警察射击的数据
08:12
And you can't actually其实 find them very easily容易
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实际上不能轻易地找到
08:14
for individual个人 Australian澳大利亚 states状态.
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个别州的(数据)
08:16
I could only find these ones那些.
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我只能找到这些
08:18
This is from a Australian澳大利亚 Institute研究所 of Criminology犯罪 report报告.
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这是从澳大利亚犯罪学报告中(找到的)
08:20
As you can see from the fine print打印, if you can read it at the top最佳:
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从这些极小的字体你可以看到,如果你能够从上面读:
08:22
"Police警察 shooting射击 deaths死亡" means手段 not just people who have been shot射击 by police警察,
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“警察射击死亡”不是仅仅指那些被警察射击的人,
08:25
but people who have shot射击 themselves他们自己 in the presence存在 of police警察.
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还指那些在警察在场时射击自己的人
08:29
But this is the figures人物 across横过 the entire整个 country国家.
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但是这是整个国家的数据
08:31
And the red arrow箭头 represents代表 the point
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红色的箭头的地方代表
08:33
where Queensland昆士兰 actually其实 said,
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昆士兰州
08:35
"Yes, this is where we're going to give all police警察 officers长官 across横过 the entire整个 state
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“是的,这是我们在整个国家里
08:38
access访问 to O.C. spray喷雾."
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允许警察使用神经麻痹剂防暴喷剂(O.C. SPRAY)的地方”
08:40
So you can see there were six deaths死亡 sort分类 of leading领导 up to it
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所以你可以看到这之前每一年有
08:43
every一切 year for a number of years年份.
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六历死亡(案例)
08:45
There was a spike, of course课程, a few少数 years年份 before,
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这是一个高峰,几年之前,
08:47
but that wasn't actually其实 Queensland昆士兰.
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但是这却不是在昆士兰州
08:49
Anyone任何人 know where that was? Wasn't Port港口 Arthur亚瑟, no.
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谁知道那是哪里?不,也不是旅顺港
08:52
Victoria维多利亚? Yes, correct正确.
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维多利亚? 是的,没错
08:54
That spike was all Victoria维多利亚.
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这个高峰是维多利亚
08:57
So it wasn't that Queensland昆士兰 had a particular特定 problem问题
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就是说昆士兰州有一个特殊的问题
08:59
with deaths死亡 from police警察 shootings枪击事件 and so on.
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伴随着警察的射击等等
09:03
So six shootings枪击事件 across横过 the whole整个 country国家,
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所以六历死亡在整个国家
09:05
fairly相当 consistently始终如一 over the years年份 before.
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持续了在这之前的年头
09:07
So the next下一个 two years年份 were the years年份 they studied研究 -- 2001, 2002.
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所以他们研究了接下来的两年--2001年,2002年
09:10
Anyone任何人 want to take a stab at the number of times,
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任何人想要尝试一下次数,
09:13
given特定 how they've他们已经 introduced介绍 this,
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在知道他们是如何被引进的情况下,
09:15
the number of times police警察 in Queensland昆士兰 used O.C. spray喷雾 in that period?
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昆士兰州的警察在那段时间里使用了带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)多少次?
09:18
Hundreds数以百计? One, three.
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一百次?三百次?
09:20
Thousand is getting得到 better.
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或者更应该是一千次
09:25
Explicitly明确地 introduced介绍
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明确地
09:27
as an alternative替代 to the use of lethal致命 force --
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将它们作为致命武器的替代品而引进--
09:29
an alternative替代 between之间 shouting叫喊 and shooting射击.
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一个在呼喊和射击的之间的替换品
09:32
I'm going to go out on a limb here
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我现在处在一个非常不利的状态
09:34
and say that if Queensland昆士兰 police警察 didn't have O.C. spray喷雾,
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并且说如果昆士兰州的警察没有带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray),
09:37
they wouldn't不会 have shot射击 2,226 people
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他们不会已经在这两年中
09:40
in those two years年份.
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射击了2,226人
09:43
In fact事实, if you have a look
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实际上,如果你看一下
09:45
at the studies学习 that they were looking at,
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他们做的这个研究,
09:47
the material材料 they were collecting搜集 and examining检查,
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他们搜集和检验的这些材料,
09:50
you can see the suspects犯罪嫌疑人 were only armed武装
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你可以看到这个猜想仅仅
09:53
in about 15 percent百分 of cases
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有15%被武装
09:55
where O.C. spray喷雾 was used.
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所有带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)被使用的情况下
09:57
It was routinely常规 being存在 used in this period,
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它们在这个阶段被例行公事地利用,
10:00
and, of course课程, still is routinely常规 used --
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并且,当然,仍旧是例行公事地利用--
10:02
because there were no complaints投诉 about it,
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因为没有抱怨,
10:04
not within the context上下文 of this study研究 anyway无论如何 --
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在这个研究内容里没有--
10:07
it was routinely常规 being存在 used
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它被例行公事地使用
10:09
to deal合同 with people who were violent暴力,
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来对付凶暴的人们,
10:11
who were potentially可能 violent暴力,
253
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潜在暴力的人们,
10:13
and also quite相当 frequently经常 used
254
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并且更加经常地用来去
10:15
to deal合同 with people who were simply只是
255
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对付那些单纯
10:17
passively被动 non-compliant不符合规定.
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消极地无抱怨的人们
10:21
This person is not doing anything violent暴力,
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这个人并不会去施任何暴力,
10:23
but they just won't惯于 do what we want them to.
258
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但是他们只是不去做他们(警察)想要他们去做的
10:25
They're not obeying服从 the directions方向 that we're giving them,
259
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他们不遵守我们给的指导方向,
10:27
so we'll give them a shot射击 of the O.C. spray喷雾.
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所以我们向他们射击带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)
10:29
That'll那会 speed速度 them up. Everything will work out better that way.
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那将将此加速。任何事情在此情况下变得好转
10:33
This was something explicitly明确地 introduced介绍
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这就是被作为武器的替换物
10:35
to be an alternative替代 to firearms枪支,
263
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而引进来的,
10:37
but it's being存在 routinely常规 used
264
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但是它被例行公事地用作
10:39
to deal合同 with a whole整个 range范围
265
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其他大范围的
10:41
of other sorts排序 of problems问题.
266
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问题
10:43
Now one of the particular特定 issues问题 that comes up
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现在一个特别突出的问题就是
10:45
with military军事 use of non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 --
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伴随着军队使用非致命武器--
10:48
and people when they're actually其实 saying, "Well hey, there might威力 be some problems问题" --
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人们实际上在说,“嘿,那里似乎有些问题”--
10:51
there's a couple一对 of particular特定 problems问题 that get focused重点 on.
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那里有一些特别的问题被关注
10:54
One of those problems问题
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这其中的一个问题
10:56
is that non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 may可能 be used indiscriminately.
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就是非致命武器可能会被滥用
10:59
One of the fundamental基本的 principles原则 of military军事 use of force
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军队使用武器的一个基本原则
11:02
is that you have to be discriminate辨析.
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就是必须要有辨别力
11:04
You have to be careful小心 about who you're shooting射击 at.
275
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你要非常地小心在射击的是什么
11:07
So one of the problems问题 that's been suggested建议 with non-lethal非致命 weapons武器
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一个伴随着非致命武器的问题
11:10
is that they might威力 be used indiscriminately --
277
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就是他们可能被毫无区别地使用--
11:12
that you use them against反对 a whole整个 range范围 of people
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你用它们来对付大规模的人们
11:14
because you don't have to worry担心 so much anymore.
279
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因为你不用再担心了
11:17
And in fact事实, one particular特定 instance
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实际上,一个特别的例子
11:19
where I think that actually其实 happens发生 where you can look at it
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我认为实际上发生在你看到的
11:21
was the Dubrovka杜布罗夫卡 Theatre剧院 siege围城 in Moscow莫斯科 in 2002,
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2002年莫斯科的杜布拉芙卡剧场围攻,
11:24
which哪一个 probably大概 a lot of you, unlike不像 most of my students学生们 at ADFAADFA,
283
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可能不像在ADFA的我的学生
11:26
are actually其实 old enough足够 to remember记得.
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在你们的年纪大概都能记得
11:28
So Chechens车臣 had come in and taken采取 control控制 of the theater剧院.
285
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车臣进去并且控制了那个剧场
11:31
They were holding保持 something like 700 people hostage人质.
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他们掌握了大概700名人质
11:34
They'd他们会 released发布 a bunch of people,
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他们已经释放了很多人,
11:36
but they still had about 700 people hostage人质.
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但是他们仍旧掌握着700名人质
11:39
And the Russian俄语 special特别 military军事 police警察,
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俄罗斯特殊军事警察,
11:42
special特别 forces军队, Spetsnaz特种部队,
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特种部队,阿尔法小组,
11:44
came来了 in and actually其实 stormed the theater剧院.
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进攻并且实际上猛击了那个剧场
11:46
And the way they did it was to pump the whole整个 thing full充分 of anesthetic麻药 gas加油站.
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他们所用的是将整个地方灌输麻醉气体
11:49
And it turned转身 out
293
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结果是
11:51
that lots of these hostages人质 actually其实 died死亡
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很多人质
11:54
as a result结果 of inhaling吸入 the gas加油站.
295
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因为吸入这些气体而死亡
11:57
It was used indiscriminately.
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它被任意地使用了
11:59
They pumped the whole整个 theater剧院 full充分 of the gas加油站.
297
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他们将整个剧场灌输气体
12:02
And it's no surprise that people died死亡,
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所以也不奇怪人们会死
12:04
because you don't know how much of this gas加油站
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因为你不知道每个人
12:06
each person is going to inhale吸入,
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会吸入多少气体,
12:08
what position位置 they're going to fall秋季 in
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他们将以怎样的姿势昏倒
12:10
when they become成为 unconscious无意识 and so on.
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当他们变得无意识等等
12:12
There were, in fact事实, only a couple一对 of people who got shot射击
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实际上,仅有一小部分人被射击
12:15
in this episode插曲.
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在这种情节下
12:17
So when they had a look at it afterward之后,
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所以当他们之后再去观察,
12:19
there were only a couple一对 of people
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仅仅有一小部分人们
12:21
who'd谁愿意 apparently显然地 been shot射击 by the hostage人质 takers考生
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被人质挟持者射击
12:23
or shot射击 by the police警察 forces军队
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或者被警察射击
12:25
coming未来 in and trying to deal合同 with the situation情况.
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在解决当时的情况下
12:27
Virtually实质上 everybody每个人 that got killed杀害
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实际上每个被杀死的人
12:29
got killed杀害 from inhaling吸入 the gas加油站.
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都是被吸进那些气体而杀死的
12:31
The final最后 toll收费 of hostages人质
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最终的人质死亡人数
12:33
is a little unclear不明,
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是有些不明确,
12:35
but it's certainly当然 a few少数 more than that,
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但是明确地是比那个(数据)更多,
12:37
because there were other people who died死亡 over the next下一个 few少数 days.
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因为一些人死于之后的几天
12:39
So this was one particular特定 problem问题 they talked about,
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所以他们谈论的一个重要问题,
12:41
that it might威力 be used indiscriminately.
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就是(非致命武器)可能会被无区别地使用
12:43
Second第二 problem问题 that people sometimes有时 talk about
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第二个问题就是人们一些时候谈论
12:45
with military军事 use of non-lethal非致命 weapons武器,
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军队使用非致命武器,
12:47
and it's actually其实 the reason原因 why in the chemical化学 weapons武器 convention惯例,
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这也实际上是为什么化学武器公约
12:50
it's very clear明确 that you can't use riot暴动 control控制 agents代理
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上明确地(规定)不能用催泪性毒气
12:52
as a weapon武器 of warfare,
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作为冲突武器,
12:54
the problem问题 with that is that it's seen看到 that sometimes有时
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它所伴随的问题就是一些时候
12:57
non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 might威力 actually其实 be used, not as an alternative替代 to lethal致命 force,
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非致命武器可能被并非作为一个致命武器
13:00
but as a lethal致命 force multiplier乘数 --
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而是一个致命武器的扩充物--
13:03
that you use non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 first
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你可以先用非致命
13:05
so that your lethal致命 weapons武器 will actually其实 be more effective有效.
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以便你的致命武器将会更加有效
13:08
The people you're going to be shooting射击 at
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那些你要射击的人
13:10
aren't going to be able能够 to get out of the way.
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不会从那里逃脱
13:12
They're not going to be aware知道的 of what's happening事件 and you can kill them better.
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他们不会意识到发生了什么而你也能更好地杀死他们
13:15
And in fact事实, that's exactly究竟 what happened发生 here.
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实际上,这正是现在所发生的
13:18
The hostage人质 takers考生 who had been rendered呈现 unconscious无意识 by the gas加油站
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那些由于气体失去意识而被降伏的人质挟持者
13:21
were not taken采取 into custody保管,
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并没有被羁押,
13:23
they were simply只是 shot射击 in the head.
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他们仅仅是被击中了头部
13:26
So this non-lethal非致命 weapon武器
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所以这些非致命武器
13:28
was being存在 used, in fact事实, in this case案件
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被使用,实际上,在这些情况下
13:30
as a lethal致命 force multiplier乘数
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作为一个致命武器的增强武器
13:33
to make killing谋杀 more effective有效
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另射杀更加有效
13:35
in this particular特定 situation情况.
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在这种特殊的情况下
13:38
Another另一个 problem问题 that I just want to quickly很快 mention提到
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我还想很快地提及另外一个问题
13:40
is that there's a whole整个 heap of problems问题
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这儿有一堆的问题
13:42
with the way that people actually其实 get taught
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人们实际上被教会
13:44
to use non-lethal非致命 weapons武器
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使用非致命武器
13:46
and get trained熟练 about them and then get tested测试 and so on.
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被训练并且试验等等
13:48
Because they get tested测试 in nice不错, safe安全 environments环境.
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因为他们在一个安全的环境下被测试
13:51
And people get taught to use them in nice不错, safe安全 environments环境
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人们也就在一个安全的环境下被教会
13:54
like this, where you can see exactly究竟 what's going on.
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正如这样,你可以看见是如何发生的
13:57
The person who's谁是 spraying the O.C. spray喷雾 is wearing穿着 a rubber橡胶 glove手套
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这些喷射带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)的人带着橡胶手套
14:00
to make sure they don't get contaminated污染 and so on.
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以防止被污染或者别的
14:02
But they don't ever get used like that.
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但是他们从未如此使用过
14:04
They get used out in the real真实 world世界,
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他们适应真实世界之外(的环境)
14:06
like in Texas德州, like this.
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像在得克萨斯州,像这样
14:10
I confess承认, this particular特定 case案件
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我承认,这个特殊的例子
14:13
was actually其实 one that piqued激起 my interest利益 in this.
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实际上激发了我的兴趣
14:15
It happened发生 while I was working加工 as a research研究 fellow同伴 at the U.S. Naval Academy学院.
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者发生在我在(美国)海军军官学校作为一名研究者工作的时候
14:18
And news新闻 reports报告 started开始 coming未来 up about this situation情况
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报纸开始报道
14:21
where this woman女人 was arguing争论 with the police警察 officer.
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一名妇女和警察发生争论的这件事情
14:24
She wasn't violent暴力.
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她并没有暴力行为
14:26
In fact事实, he was probably大概 six inches英寸 taller than me,
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实际上,他大概比我高6英尺左右,
14:28
and she was about this tall.
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她也就是这么高
14:31
And eventually终于 she said to him
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最后她对他说
14:33
"Well I'm going to get back in my car汽车."
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“我要回我的车里去了”
14:35
And he says, "If you get back into your car汽车, I'm going to taseTASE you."
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他说,“如果你要回你的车,那么我就要tase(用高压眩晕枪射击)你”
14:37
And she says, "Oh, go ahead. TaseTASE me." And so he does.
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她说,“来吧,射击我吧”于是他就做了
14:40
And it's all captured捕获 by the video视频 camera相机
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这些都被摄像机扑捉下来了
14:42
running赛跑 in the front面前 of the police警察 car汽车.
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就在警车前面
14:46
So she's 72,
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她72岁,
14:49
and it's seen看到 that this is the most appropriate适当 way of dealing交易 with her.
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这看起来是对待她最不合适的一种方式
14:53
And other examples例子 of the same相同 sorts排序 of things
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另外一个与此类似的情况是
14:55
with other people where you think
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你认为对于其他的人
14:57
where you think, "Is this really an appropriate适当 way to use non-lethal非致命 weapons武器?"
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“使用非致命武器真的是一个合适的手段吗?”
15:00
"Police警察 chief首席 fires火灾 Taser泰瑟 into 14 year-old girl's女孩 head."
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“警察官们用高压眩晕枪射击一个14岁女孩儿的头”
15:02
"She was running赛跑 away. What else其他 was I suppose假设 to do?"
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“她跑了,我还能做什么什么呢?”
15:05
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
15:08
Or Florida佛罗里达:
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又或者在弗罗里达州:
15:10
"Police警察 Taser泰瑟 six year-old boy男孩 at elementary初级 school学校."
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“警察在一个小学用高压眩晕枪射击了一个6岁的男孩儿”
15:13
And they clearly明确地 learned学到了 a lot from it
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他们的确从中学到了些什么
15:15
because in the same相同 district,
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因为在同一个区,
15:17
"Police警察 review评论 policy政策 after children孩子 shocked吃惊:
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“在孩子们被射击后警察重新审视了他们的政策
15:19
2ndND child儿童 shocked吃惊 by Taser泰瑟 stun击晕 gun within weeks."
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第二个孩子在几周后被高压眩晕枪射击“
15:22
Same相同 police警察 district.
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在同一个警察区
15:24
Another另一个 child儿童 within weeks of TaseringTasering the six year-old boy男孩.
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之前那个六岁被射击的孩子发生之后的几周内另一个孩子(被射击)
15:27
Just in case案件 you think
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万一你认为
15:29
it's only going to happen发生 in the United联合的 States状态,
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这仅仅发生在美国,
15:31
it happened发生 in Canada加拿大 as well.
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也发生在加拿大,
15:33
And a colleague同事 of mine
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我的一个同事
15:35
sent发送 me this one from London伦敦.
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从伦敦给我寄来了这个
15:37
But my personal个人 favorite喜爱 of these ones那些, I have to confess承认,
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但是我个人最喜欢的,我得坦白,
15:40
does actually其实 come from the United联合的 States状态:
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是从美国来的:
15:43
"Officers长官 Taser泰瑟 86 year-old disabled woman女人 in her bed."
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”警官们用高压眩晕枪射击了一名残疾的86岁的老太太,在她的床上“
15:46
I checked检查 the reports报告 on this one.
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我检查了这个报告
15:50
I looked看着 at it. I was really surprised诧异.
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我看着它,我十分的吃惊
15:53
Apparently显然地 she took up a more threatening危险的 position位置 in her bed.
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明显地她在床上的姿势更具有威胁力
15:56
(Laughter笑声)
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(掌声)
15:58
I kid孩子 you not. That's exactly究竟 what it said.
395
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我没有跟你们开玩笑,报告上是这样说的
16:00
"She took up a more threatening危险的 position位置 in her bed."
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”她在床上做了更加具有威胁力的姿势“
16:03
Okay.
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好的
16:05
But I'd remind提醒 you what I'm talking about,
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但是我提醒你我在说什么,
16:07
I'm talking about military军事 uses使用 of non-lethal非致命 weapons武器.
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我再说关于军队使用非致命武器
16:09
So why is this relevant相应?
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所以为什么这些有关联?
16:11
Because police警察 are actually其实 more restrained矜持 in the use of force
401
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因为警察们比军人们对使用
16:13
than the military军事 are.
402
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武器有更多的限制
16:15
They're trained熟练 to be more restrained矜持 in the use of force than the military军事 are.
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他们被训练的比军队使用武器有更多的限制
16:18
They're trained熟练 to think more, to try and de-escalate逐步降级.
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他们被训练地思考更多,试图并且减压
16:21
So if you have these problems问题 with police警察 officers长官 with non-lethal非致命 weapons武器,
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所以如果你对警察使用非致命武器有疑问,
16:24
what on earth地球 would make you think
406
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究竟什么能使你觉得
16:26
it's going to be better with military军事 personnel人员?
407
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军人使用会更好呢?
16:30
The last thing that I would just like to say,
408
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我要说的最后一件事情,
16:33
when I'm talking to the police警察
409
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当我和警察说
16:35
about what a perfect完善 non-lethal非致命 weapon武器 would look like,
410
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关于一个完美的非致命武器的时候
16:37
they almost几乎 inevitably必将 say the same相同 thing.
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他们几乎毫无例外地说同一件事
16:39
They say, "Well, it's got to be something that's nasty讨厌 enough足够
412
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他们说,”这将是肮脏的事情
16:42
that people don't want to be hit击中 with this weapon武器.
413
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人们不想被这种武器击中
16:44
So if you threaten威胁 to use it,
414
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如果你用它去恐吓,
16:46
people are going to comply执行 with it,
415
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人们遵守
16:49
but it's also going to be something
416
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但是这将
16:51
that doesn't leave离开 any lasting持久 effects效果."
417
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不会有持久的效果”
16:55
In other words, your perfect完善 non-lethal非致命 weapon武器
418
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也就是说,你的完美的非致命武器
16:58
is something that's perfect完善 for abuse滥用.
419
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是完美的用来虐待
17:00
What would these guys have doneDONE
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这些人可以做什么
17:02
if they'd他们会 had access访问 to Tasers泰瑟枪
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如果他们有使用高压眩晕枪的权利
17:04
or to a manned载人, portable手提 version
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或者是一个人性化的,便携式的
17:06
of the Active活性 Denial否认 System系统 --
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主动拒绝系统--
17:08
a small heat ray射线 that you can use on people
424
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一个你可以用来射击人们的小的热射线
17:11
and not worry担心 about it.
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对它并不担心
17:13
So I think, yes, there may可能 be ways方法
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所以我认为,是的,肯定会有办法
17:16
that non-lethal非致命 weapons武器 are going to be great in these situations情况,
427
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非致命武器在这种环境下会将会很有效
17:18
but there's also a whole整个 heap of problems问题
428
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但是这里还是有一堆的问题
17:20
that need to be considered考虑 as well.
429
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需要被考虑到
17:22
Thanks谢谢 very much.
430
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非常感谢
17:24
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
Translated by Guo Tang
Reviewed by Zhangyi Liu

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Stephen Coleman - Ethicist
Stephen Coleman studies applied ethics, particularly the ethics of military and police force, and their application to human rights.

Why you should listen
Dr. Stephen Cole­man is Senior Lec­turer in Ethics and Lead­er­ship and Vin­cent Fair­fax Foun­da­tion Fel­low in the School of Human­i­ties and Social Sci­ences, UNSW@ADFA.
 
Coleman works in a diverse range of areas in applied ethics, includ­ing mil­i­tary ethics, police ethics, med­ical ethics, and the prac­ti­cal appli­ca­tions of human rights. He has pub­lished and pre­sented in var­i­ous forms in Aus­tralia, the United States, the United King­dom, New Zealand and Hong Kong. He recently spent an aca­d­e­mic year as the Res­i­dent Fel­low at the Stock­dale Cen­ter for Eth­i­cal Lead­er­ship at the United States Naval Acad­emy, where he was part of a large research project exam­in­ing the eth­i­cal impli­ca­tions of var­i­ous new and devel­op­ing mil­i­tary tech­nolo­gies. This project helped to brief the Depart­ment of Defense, the US Con­gress and the White House on these issues.
 
He can also make bal­loon and origami ani­mals, jug­gle, breathe fire and ride a uni­cy­cle, though not all at the same time. 
More profile about the speaker
Stephen Coleman | Speaker | TED.com