TED Salon: Belonging
Ronald Rael: An architect's subversive reimagining of the US-Mexico border wall
罗纳德 · 雷尔: 一位建筑师对美墨边界墙颠覆性的新构思
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边界是什么？它是地图上的一条线，是不同文化，以美丽的，时而暴力的，偶尔也是荒谬的方式混合交融的地方。边界墙？建筑师罗纳德·雷尔说，这是对复杂状况过于简单的反应。在一次动人的视觉享宴演讲中，雷尔重新构想了划分美国和墨西哥的实体屏障——分享边境地区启发的带讽刺性、而又严肃的艺术作品，向我们展示在新闻中没看到的边界。雷尔说：“不存在被墙界定出的不同两面。它不过是被墙割裂的同一景观。”
Ronald Rael - Architect
Ronald Rael draws, builds, writes, 3D-prints and teaches about architecture as a cultural endeavor deeply influenced by a unique upbringing in a desolate alpine valley in southern Colorado. Full bio
Ronald Rael draws, builds, writes, 3D-prints and teaches about architecture as a cultural endeavor deeply influenced by a unique upbringing in a desolate alpine valley in southern Colorado. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Isn't it fascinating how the simple act
of drawing a line on the map
of drawing a line on the map
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简单地在地图上画
一条线，便能改变我们
一条线，便能改变我们
体验和看待这个世界的方式，
这不是很有意思吗？
这不是很有意思吗？
00:17
can transform the way we see
and experience the world?
and experience the world?
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00:21
And how those spaces
in between lines, borders,
in between lines, borders,
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那些线、那些边界之间的空间，
00:24
become places.
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成了一个个地区。
00:26
They become places
where language and food and music
where language and food and music
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在这些地区里，不同文化的
语言、食物，音乐和人，
语言、食物，音乐和人，
00:31
and people of different cultures
rub up against each other
rub up against each other
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以美丽的、时而带暴力的，
00:34
in beautiful and sometimes violent
and occasionally really ridiculous ways.
and occasionally really ridiculous ways.
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甚至是偶尔极荒谬的方式互动。
00:40
And those lines drawn on a map
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而画在地图上的线，
不仅形成景观上的疤痕，
00:43
can actually create
scars in the landscape,
scars in the landscape,
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00:45
and they can create scars in our memories.
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也能在记忆中留下疮疤。
00:48
My interest in borders came about
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我在找寻边境地区建筑的时候，
00:50
when I was searching
for an architecture of the borderlands.
for an architecture of the borderlands.
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开始对边界感到兴趣。
00:55
And I was working on several projects
along the US-Mexico border,
along the US-Mexico border,
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当时我正在美墨边境做几个项目，
00:59
designing buildings made out of mud
taken right from the ground.
taken right from the ground.
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设计泥土造的建筑。
01:03
And I also work on projects that you
might say immigrated to this landscape.
might say immigrated to this landscape.
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我也参与了一些可以说是
迁徙到那片土地上的项目。
迁徙到那片土地上的项目。
01:07
"Prada Marfa," a land-art sculpture
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＂马尔法的普拉达＂，
这个土地艺术雕塑
这个土地艺术雕塑
01:09
that crosses the border
between art and architecture,
between art and architecture,
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穿越了艺术与建筑的边界，
01:12
and it demonstrated to me
that architecture could communicate ideas
that architecture could communicate ideas
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它让我明白建筑也能传达
很复杂的政治文化理念，
01:16
that are much more
politically and culturally complex,
politically and culturally complex,
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01:19
that architecture could be satirical
and serious at the same time
and serious at the same time
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而且建筑可以同时具有
讽刺性而又严肃，
讽刺性而又严肃，
它可以展现贫富差距，
01:24
and it could speak to the disparities
between wealth and poverty
between wealth and poverty
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01:27
and what's local and what's foreign.
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也能显现什么是本地、
什么是外来的。
什么是外来的。
01:30
And so in my search
for an architecture of the borderlands,
for an architecture of the borderlands,
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因此，当我找寻边境地区建筑时，
01:34
I began to wonder,
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我也开始质疑：
01:35
is the wall architecture?
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边境墙算是建筑吗？
01:39
I began to document my thoughts
and visits to the wall
and visits to the wall
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我创作了一系列的纪念品，
01:44
by creating a series of souvenirs
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以此记录我在边境墙实地勘察的想法，
借以提醒大家关注墙的兴建，
01:48
to remind us of the time
when we built a wall
when we built a wall
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以及建墙这主意是多么疯狂。
01:52
and what a crazy idea that was.
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01:56
I created border games,
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我创造了边境游戏、
01:57
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
01:59
postcards,
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明信片、
02:01
snow globes with little architectural
models inside of them,
models inside of them,
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里头有小建筑模型的雪花球、
02:05
and maps that told the story
of resilience at the wall
of resilience at the wall
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还有讲述这堵墙的顽强事迹的地图，
02:10
and sought for ways that design
could bring to light the problems
could bring to light the problems
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我寻思要如何设计才能减轻
02:15
that the border wall was creating.
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边墙所带来的问题。
02:18
So, is the wall architecture?
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那么，边界墙算是建筑吗？
02:21
Well, it certainly is a design structure,
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它肯定是一个设计结构，
02:23
and it's designed at a research
facility called FenceLab,
facility called FenceLab,
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由一个叫＂FenceLab＂
的研究单位设计，
的研究单位设计，
02:27
where they would load vehicles
with 10,000 pounds
with 10,000 pounds
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在那儿，他们开载重10,000 磅的车，
02:30
and ram them into the wall
at 40 miles an hour
at 40 miles an hour
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以 40 英里时速撞墙
02:32
to test the wall's impermeability.
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以此来测试墙的抗穿透性。
02:34
But there was also counter-research
going on on the other side,
going on on the other side,
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但另一边也有人做对应的研究，
02:37
the design of portable drawbridges
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设计便携式吊桥，
02:40
that you could bring right up to the wall
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你可以把它带到墙边架起，
02:42
and allow vehicles to drive right over.
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从墙上开车过去。
02:44
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:46
And like with all research projects,
there are successes
there are successes
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如同所有的研究项目，有的成功
02:49
and there are failures.
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有的失败。
02:50
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:52
But it's these medieval
reactions to the wall --
reactions to the wall --
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但这些中世纪的方法— —
02:55
drawbridges, for example --
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例如吊桥— —
02:57
that are because the wall itself is
an arcane, medieval form of architecture.
an arcane, medieval form of architecture.
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是因为墙本身就是一种
神秘的中世纪建筑形式。
神秘的中世纪建筑形式。
03:03
It's an overly simplistic response
to a complex set of issues.
to a complex set of issues.
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这是对于一系列复杂的问题
所做出过于简单的回应。
所做出过于简单的回应。
03:09
And a number of medieval technologies
have sprung up along the wall:
have sprung up along the wall:
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还有另一些中世纪的技术
沿着墙壁如雨后春笋般涌现：
沿着墙壁如雨后春笋般涌现：
例如用投射机将
整袋大麻抛过围墙，
整袋大麻抛过围墙，
03:13
catapults that launch
bales of marijuana over the wall
bales of marijuana over the wall
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03:16
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:17
or cannons that shoot packets
of cocaine and heroin over the wall.
of cocaine and heroin over the wall.
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或用大炮将可卡因
和海洛因包裹射过去。
和海洛因包裹射过去。
03:22
Now during medieval times,
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在中世纪时期，
03:24
diseased, dead bodies
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有时会将病死的尸体投射过城墙，
03:26
were sometimes catapulted over walls
as an early form of biological warfare,
as an early form of biological warfare,
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这是生物战的早期形式；
03:31
and it's speculated that today,
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时至今日也有传言，
03:34
humans are being propelled over the wall
as a form of immigration.
as a form of immigration.
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说有人以被抛过墙的方式来移民。
真是荒谬的主意。
03:41
A ridiculous idea.
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03:43
But the only person ever known to be
documented to have launched over the wall
documented to have launched over the wall
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但仅有一人被从墨西哥抛进美国
且正式记录在案的
03:49
from Mexico to the United States
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其实是美国公民，
03:51
was in fact a US citizen,
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03:53
who was given permission
to human-cannonball over the wall,
to human-cannonball over the wall,
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并且他事先申请了人肉炮弹表演的许可，
飞越 200 英呎，
03:57
200 feet,
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03:58
so long as he carried his passport in hand
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条件是他必须带着护照。
04:00
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:03
and he landed safely in a net
on the other side.
on the other side.
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他成功降落在另一边的网子上。
04:07
And my thoughts are inspired
by a quote by the architect Hassan Fathy,
by a quote by the architect Hassan Fathy,
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建筑师哈桑·法西的话对我很有启发。
04:12
who said,
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他说：
04:13
"Architects do not design walls,
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＂建筑师不设计墙壁，
设计的是墙壁之间的空间。＂
04:15
but the spaces between them."
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04:18
So while I do not think that architects
should be designing walls,
should be designing walls,
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因此我不认为建筑师
应该去设计墙壁，
应该去设计墙壁，
我认为更重要、更急迫的是
04:21
I do think it's important and urgent
that they should be paying attention
that they should be paying attention
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他们该着眼于墙与墙间的空间。
04:25
to those spaces in between.
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04:27
They should be designing for the places
and the people, the landscapes
and the people, the landscapes
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他们应该为那些
受了那堵墙危害的地方、
受了那堵墙危害的地方、
人、和风景来做设计。
04:31
that the wall endangers.
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04:34
Now, people are already
rising to this occasion,
rising to this occasion,
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现在，人们已经站出来。
04:37
and while the purpose of the wall
is to keep people apart and away,
is to keep people apart and away,
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虽然墙的目的是将人分开，
04:42
it's actually bringing people together
in some really remarkable ways,
in some really remarkable ways,
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它反而以非凡的方式，
将人凝聚在一起。
将人凝聚在一起。
04:46
holding social events like
binational yoga classes along the border,
binational yoga classes along the border,
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他们举办社交活动，像是
沿着边界的跨国瑜伽课，
沿着边界的跨国瑜伽课，
04:49
to bring people together
across the divide.
across the divide.
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将被分隔的人带到了一起。
这一招我称之为＂纪念碑式＂。
04:52
I call this the monument pose.
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04:54
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:56
And have you ever heard of "wall y ball"?
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你们有没有听说过＂墙球＂？
04:59
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:01
It's a borderland version of volleyball,
and it's been played since 1979
and it's been played since 1979
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这是一个边境版的排球，
早自 1979 年便有人……
早自 1979 年便有人……
05:06
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:08
along the US-Mexico border
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沿着美墨边境玩，
05:09
to celebrate binational heritage.
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来庆祝两国的传承。
05:12
And it raises some
interesting questions, right?
interesting questions, right?
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这引发了一些有趣的问题，对吗？
05:14
Is such a game even legal?
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这样的游戏究竟合不合法？
05:18
Does hitting a ball back and forth
over the wall constitute illegal trade?
over the wall constitute illegal trade?
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在墙头上将球打过来打过去，
是否构成非法贸易？
是否构成非法贸易？
05:21
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:23
The beauty of volleyball
is that it transforms the wall
is that it transforms the wall
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排球的美，在于它将墙
05:28
into nothing more than a line in the sand
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化为沙子上的一条线，
05:31
negotiated by the minds and bodies
and spirits of players on both sides.
and spirits of players on both sides.
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由双方球员的思想、
身体和精神协商而来。
身体和精神协商而来。
05:36
And I think it's exactly
these kinds of two-sided negotiations
these kinds of two-sided negotiations
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而且我认为要撤掉这堵分裂的墙，
所需要的正是这种双边协商。
05:40
that are needed to bring down
walls that divide.
walls that divide.
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05:44
Now, throwing the ball
over the wall is one thing,
over the wall is one thing,
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扔球过去是一回事，
把石头扔过围墙又是另一回事。
05:47
but throwing rocks over the wall
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05:50
has caused damage
to Border Patrol vehicles
to Border Patrol vehicles
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石头砸坏了边境巡逻车，
05:53
and have injured Border Patrol agents,
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伤到了边巡人员，
05:56
and the response from the US side
has been drastic.
has been drastic.
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也引发了美方的激烈反应。
05:59
Border Patrol agents
have fired through the wall,
have fired through the wall,
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边巡人员朝围墙另一边开了枪，
06:02
killing people throwing rocks
on the Mexican side.
on the Mexican side.
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打死了墨西哥方面扔石头的人。
06:06
And another response
by Border Patrol agents
by Border Patrol agents
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边巡人员的另一种回应，
06:09
is to erect baseball backstops
to protect themselves and their vehicles.
to protect themselves and their vehicles.
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是竖立起棒球场那种挡球网
来保护人员和车辆。
来保护人员和车辆。
06:13
And these backstops
became a permanent feature
became a permanent feature
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在建造新墙的时候，
06:16
in the construction of new walls.
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挡球网已经成了标准设施。
06:19
And I began to wonder if, like volleyball,
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我开始想：和排球一样，
也许棒球应该是边境的标准设施，
06:22
maybe baseball should be
a permanent feature at the border,
a permanent feature at the border,
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06:26
and walls could start opening up,
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边墙可以开始开放，
06:28
allowing communities
to come across and play,
to come across and play,
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让附近社区一起来玩。
06:31
and if they hit a home run,
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如果打了个全垒打，
06:33
maybe a Border Patrol agent would
pick up the ball and throw it
pick up the ball and throw it
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或许边巡人员会帮忙捡起球，
扔回墙的另一边。
06:36
back over to the other side.
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06:39
A Border Patrol agent buys
a raspado, a frozen treat,
a raspado, a frozen treat,
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在这里边巡人员向几英呎外的小贩
06:43
from a vendor just a couple feet away,
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购买墨西哥冰沙，
06:46
food and money is exchanged
through the wall,
through the wall,
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食物和钱穿过墙交换，
06:49
an entirely normal event
made illegal by that line drawn on a map
made illegal by that line drawn on a map
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一件完全正常的事，
但被地图上的一条线
但被地图上的一条线
及几毫米厚的钢材划定为非法。
06:56
and a couple millimeters of steel.
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06:59
And this scene reminded me of a saying:
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这一幕让我想起了一句话：
“如果你有多的，
应该要摆更大的客桌，
应该要摆更大的客桌，
07:02
"If you have more than you need,
you should build longer tables
you should build longer tables
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07:05
and not higher walls."
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而不是筑更高的墙。”
07:06
So I created this souvenir to remember
the moment that we could share
the moment that we could share
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所以我做了这个纪念品，
来纪念我们可以跨越藩篱
来纪念我们可以跨越藩篱
07:10
food and conversation across the divide.
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分享食物和对话的那一刻。
07:13
A swing allows one to enter
and swing over to the other side
and swing over to the other side
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这个秋千让人进去，荡到另一边，
07:17
until gravity deports them back
to their own country.
to their own country.
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直到重力将他遣返原居国。
07:20
The border and the border wall
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现在的边界和边界墙
07:23
is thought of as a sort of
political theater today,
political theater today,
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被当作政治剧场看待，
07:28
so perhaps we should invite
audiences to that theater,
audiences to that theater,
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也许我们应该邀请观众到那个剧院，
07:32
to a binational theater
where people can come together
where people can come together
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一个两国剧院，人们可以
07:35
with performers, musicians.
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和表演者、音乐家聚在一起。
07:38
Maybe the wall is nothing more
than an enormous instrument,
than an enormous instrument,
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也许这墙不过是一个巨大的乐器，
07:41
the world's largest xylophone,
and we could play down this wall
and we could play down this wall
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世界上最大的木琴，而我们
可以用大规模打击性乐器
可以用大规模打击性乐器
07:45
with weapons of mass percussion.
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来打下这堵墙。
07:47
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
07:50
When I envisioned this binational library,
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当我构想这座两国图书馆，
07:52
I wanted to imagine a space
where one could share
where one could share
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我想像一个人们可以共享
书籍、信息和知识，
跨越鸿沟的地方，
跨越鸿沟的地方，
07:56
books and information
and knowledge across a divide,
and knowledge across a divide,
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那里面墙只不过是个书架。
08:01
where the wall was nothing more
than a bookshelf.
than a bookshelf.
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08:04
And perhaps the best way to illustrate
the mutual relationship that we have
the mutual relationship that we have
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也许墨西哥和美国间的相互关系
08:08
with Mexico and the United States
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最好的说明方式
08:10
is by imagining a teeter-totter,
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是想像一个跷跷板：
08:13
where the actions on one side
had a direct consequence
had a direct consequence
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一方的行动，
会直接影响到另一方。
08:16
on what happens on the other side,
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08:18
because you see, the border itself
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因为，你看，边界本身
08:20
is both a symbolic and literal fulcrum
for US-Mexico relations,
for US-Mexico relations,
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是一个美墨关系上的支点，
08:25
and building walls between neighbors
severs those relationships.
severs those relationships.
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而在邻居之间建墙
就切断了那些关系。
就切断了那些关系。
08:30
You probably remember this quote,
"Good fences make good neighbors."
"Good fences make good neighbors."
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你可能还记得这句话：
＂有好围墙，才有好邻居。＂
＂有好围墙，才有好邻居。＂
08:34
It's often thought of as the moral
of Robert Frost's poem "Mending Wall."
of Robert Frost's poem "Mending Wall."
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它常被认为是罗伯特·弗罗斯特的
诗《修补墙》的寓意。
诗《修补墙》的寓意。
08:39
But the poem is really about questioning
the need for building walls at all.
the need for building walls at all.
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但这首诗其实是在
质疑需不需要建墙。
质疑需不需要建墙。
事实上它是一首关于
修补人际关系的诗。
修补人际关系的诗。
08:44
It's really a poem about mending
human relationships.
human relationships.
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08:47
My favorite line is the first one:
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我最喜欢第一句：
08:49
"Something there is
that doesn't love a wall."
that doesn't love a wall."
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＂有个东西不爱墙。＂
08:53
Because if there's one thing
that's clear to me --
that's clear to me --
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因为我很清楚——
不存在被墙界定出的不同两面。
08:55
there are not two sides defined by a wall.
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它不过是被墙割裂的同一景观。
08:58
This is one landscape, divided.
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09:01
On one side, it might look like this.
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在一边，它可能看起来像这样：
09:03
A man is mowing his lawn
while the wall is looming in his backyard.
while the wall is looming in his backyard.
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一个人在割草，有片墙
紧傍着他的后院。
紧傍着他的后院。
09:07
And on the other side,
it might look like this.
it might look like this.
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在另一边，它可能
看起来像这样：
看起来像这样：
09:09
The wall is the fourth wall
of someone's house.
of someone's house.
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那片墙是某人房子
四面墙壁中的一面。
四面墙壁中的一面。
09:13
But the reality is that the wall
is cutting through people's lives.
is cutting through people's lives.
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但现实情况是墙正在
切割人们的生活。
切割人们的生活。
09:18
It is cutting through
our private property,
our private property,
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它切过我们的私人财产、
09:21
our public lands,
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我们的公共土地、
09:22
our Native American lands, our cities,
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我们美洲原住民的土地、
我们的城市、
我们的城市、
09:25
a university,
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一所大学、
09:27
our neighborhoods.
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我们的社区。
09:29
And I couldn't help but wonder
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我很想知道
09:30
what it would be like if the wall
cut through a house.
cut through a house.
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墙穿过房子是什怎样的情景？
09:34
Remember those disparities
between wealth and poverty?
between wealth and poverty?
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还记得那些贫富的差距吗？
09:37
On the right is the average size
of a house in El Paso, Texas,
of a house in El Paso, Texas,
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右边是美国德州
埃尔帕索的房子平均大小，
埃尔帕索的房子平均大小，
09:40
and on the left is the average size
of a house in Juarez.
of a house in Juarez.
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而左边是墨西哥
华雷斯的房子平均尺寸。
华雷斯的房子平均尺寸。
09:43
And here, the wall cuts directly
through the kitchen table.
through the kitchen table.
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在这里，墙壁直接切过厨房的桌子。
09:47
And here, the wall cuts through
the bed in the bedroom.
the bed in the bedroom.
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在这里，墙壁穿过卧室里的床。
09:51
Because I wanted to communicate
how the wall is not only dividing places,
how the wall is not only dividing places,
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因为我想要传达的是：
墙不仅仅分隔了地域，
墙不仅仅分隔了地域，
09:55
it's dividing people,
it's dividing families.
it's dividing families.
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它也分隔了人，分隔了家庭。
09:58
And the unfortunate politics of the wall
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今日不幸的边界墙政治
10:00
is today, it is dividing children
from their parents.
from their parents.
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让小孩与父母分离。
10:04
You might be familiar
with this well-known traffic sign.
with this well-known traffic sign.
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你可能熟悉这个有名的交通标志。
10:07
It was designed
by graphic designer John Hood,
by graphic designer John Hood,
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由平面设计师约翰·胡德设计，
他是美洲原住民、退伍军人，
10:11
a Native American war veteran
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10:12
working for the California
Department of Transportation.
Department of Transportation.
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在加州交通运输部工作。
10:16
And he was tasked with creating
a sign to warn motorists
a sign to warn motorists
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他被指派设计一个
标志，用以提醒驾驶人
标志，用以提醒驾驶人
10:19
of immigrants who were stranded
alongside the highway
alongside the highway
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在高速公路边的移民者
10:22
and who might attempt
to run across the road.
to run across the road.
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可能冒险横越马路。
10:26
Hood related the plight
of the immigrant today
of the immigrant today
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今天的移民的困境，
让胡德联想到
让胡德联想到
10:29
to that of the Navajo
during the Long Walk.
during the Long Walk.
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纳瓦霍印第安人
被迫迁徙的血泪史。
被迫迁徙的血泪史。
10:33
And this is really a brilliant piece
of design activism.
of design activism.
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这真是一件行动主义
的设计精彩作品。
的设计精彩作品。
10:37
And he was very careful
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他非常细心地思考，
10:38
in thinking about using
a little girl with pigtails, for example,
a little girl with pigtails, for example,
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例如采用扎马尾辫的小女孩，
10:42
because he thought that's who motorists
might empathize with the most,
might empathize with the most,
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因为那可能更容易
让驾驶人产生同情；
让驾驶人产生同情；
他也采用了民权领袖
西萨·查维斯的剪影
西萨·查维斯的剪影
10:46
and he used the silhouette
of the civil rights leader Cesar Chavez
of the civil rights leader Cesar Chavez
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10:51
to create the head of the father.
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作为那个父亲的头像。
10:53
I wanted to build upon
the brilliance of this sign
the brilliance of this sign
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我想继续延伸这个标志的光彩，
10:57
to call attention to the problem
of child separation at the border,
of child separation at the border,
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来唤起大家注意在边境
儿童与父母被分离这个问题。
儿童与父母被分离这个问题。
11:00
and I made one very simple move.
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我做了一个非常简单的改动，
11:02
I turned the families to face each other.
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让这家人面对面。
11:05
And in the last few weeks,
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过去几周里，
11:06
I've had the opportunity
to bring that sign back to the highway
to bring that sign back to the highway
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我把那个标志带回高速公路
11:09
to tell a story,
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去讲故事，
11:11
the story of the relationships
that we should be mending
that we should be mending
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讲我们应该修补关系的故事，
11:15
and a reminder that we should be designing
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并提醒大家我们应该去设计
11:17
a reunited states
and not a divided states.
and not a divided states.
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一个团结的国家，
而不是分裂的国家。
而不是分裂的国家。
11:21
Thank you.
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谢谢。
（掌声）
11:22
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ronald Rael - ArchitectRonald Rael draws, builds, writes, 3D-prints and teaches about architecture as a cultural endeavor deeply influenced by a unique upbringing in a desolate alpine valley in southern Colorado.
Why you should listen
As the San Francisco Chronicle writes, "[Ronald Rael's] imagination is audacious. He speculates on the implications of a border wall, building with mud and using 3D printers to create buildings -- as seen in his books Borderwall as Architecture, Earth Architecture and Printing Architecture, with his partner, architect and educator Virginia San Fratello.
Rael is a professor of architecture at the University of California, Berkeley and is a founding partner of the Oakland based Make-Tank, Emerging Objects. You can see his drawings, models and objects in the permanent collections of the Museum of Modern Art, the Cooper Hewitt Design Museum and the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art.
Ronald Rael | Speaker | TED.com