TED Salon: Belonging
Ronald Rael: An architect's subversive reimagining of the US-Mexico border wall
羅納德．雷爾: 一位建築師對美墨邊界牆顛覆性的新構思
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邊界是什麼？它是地圖上的一條線，是不同文化，以美麗、時而暴力、偶爾荒謬的方式混合交融的地方。邊界牆？建築師羅納德．雷爾（Ronald Rael）說，這是對複雜狀況過於簡單的反應。在一次動人的視覺享宴演講中，雷爾重新構想了劃分美國和墨西哥的實體屏障——分享邊境地區啟發的既諷刺又嚴肅的藝術作品，向我們展示在新聞中沒看到的邊界。 雷爾說：「不存在被牆界定出的不同兩面。它不過是被牆割裂的同一景觀。」
Ronald Rael - Architect
Ronald Rael draws, builds, writes, 3D-prints and teaches about architecture as a cultural endeavor deeply influenced by a unique upbringing in a desolate alpine valley in southern Colorado. Full bio
Ronald Rael draws, builds, writes, 3D-prints and teaches about architecture as a cultural endeavor deeply influenced by a unique upbringing in a desolate alpine valley in southern Colorado. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Isn't it fascinating how the simple act
of drawing a line on the map
of drawing a line on the map
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簡單地在地圖上畫一條線
便能改變我們體驗看待
這個世界的方式，
這個世界的方式，
00:17
can transform the way we see
and experience the world?
and experience the world?
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這不是很有意思嗎？
00:21
And how those spaces
in between lines, borders,
in between lines, borders,
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那些線、那些邊界之間的空間，
00:24
become places.
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成了一個個地區。
00:26
They become places
where language and food and music
where language and food and music
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在這些地區裡，不同文化的
語言、食物，音樂和人，
語言、食物，音樂和人，
00:31
and people of different cultures
rub up against each other
rub up against each other
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以美麗的、時而帶暴力的，
00:34
in beautiful and sometimes violent
and occasionally really ridiculous ways.
and occasionally really ridiculous ways.
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甚至偶爾是極荒謬的方式互動。
00:40
And those lines drawn on a map
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而畫在地圖上的線，
00:43
can actually create
scars in the landscape,
scars in the landscape,
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不僅形成景觀上的疤痕，
也能在記憶中留下瘡疤。
00:45
and they can create scars in our memories.
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00:48
My interest in borders came about
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在找尋邊境地區建築的時候，
00:50
when I was searching
for an architecture of the borderlands.
for an architecture of the borderlands.
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我開始對邊界感到興趣。
00:55
And I was working on several projects
along the US-Mexico border,
along the US-Mexico border,
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當時我正在美墨邊境做幾個項目，
00:59
designing buildings made out of mud
taken right from the ground.
taken right from the ground.
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設計泥土造的建築。
01:03
And I also work on projects that you
might say immigrated to this landscape.
might say immigrated to this landscape.
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我也參與了一些可說是
遷徙到那片土地上的項目。
遷徙到那片土地上的項目。
01:07
"Prada Marfa," a land-art sculpture
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「馬爾法的普拉達」
這個土地藝術雕塑，
這個土地藝術雕塑，
01:09
that crosses the border
between art and architecture,
between art and architecture,
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穿越了藝術與建築的邊界，
01:12
and it demonstrated to me
that architecture could communicate ideas
that architecture could communicate ideas
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向我展示建築也能傳達
01:16
that are much more
politically and culturally complex,
politically and culturally complex,
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很複雜的政治文化理念，
01:19
that architecture could be satirical
and serious at the same time
and serious at the same time
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而且建築可以同時具
諷刺性而又嚴肅，
諷刺性而又嚴肅，
01:24
and it could speak to the disparities
between wealth and poverty
between wealth and poverty
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它可以展現貧富差距，
01:27
and what's local and what's foreign.
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也能顯現什麼是本地、
什麼是外來的。
什麼是外來的。
01:30
And so in my search
for an architecture of the borderlands,
for an architecture of the borderlands,
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因此，當我找尋邊境地區建築時，
我也開始質疑：
01:34
I began to wonder,
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01:35
is the wall architecture?
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邊境牆算是建築嗎？
01:39
I began to document my thoughts
and visits to the wall
and visits to the wall
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我以創造一系列紀念品的方式開始，
記錄對邊境牆的想法及實地勘察，
01:44
by creating a series of souvenirs
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01:48
to remind us of the time
when we built a wall
when we built a wall
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藉以提醒關注牆的興建，
01:52
and what a crazy idea that was.
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以及建牆這主意是多瘋狂。
01:56
I created border games,
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我創造了邊境遊戲、
01:57
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:59
postcards,
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明信片、
02:01
snow globes with little architectural
models inside of them,
models inside of them,
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裡頭有小建築模型的雪花球、
02:05
and maps that told the story
of resilience at the wall
of resilience at the wall
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講述這堵牆的頑強事蹟的地圖，
02:10
and sought for ways that design
could bring to light the problems
could bring to light the problems
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尋思要如何設計，
才能引起大眾注意
才能引起大眾注意
邊牆所帶來的問題。
02:15
that the border wall was creating.
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02:18
So, is the wall architecture?
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那麼，邊界境牆算是建築嗎？
02:21
Well, it certainly is a design structure,
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它肯定是一個設計結構，
02:23
and it's designed at a research
facility called FenceLab,
facility called FenceLab,
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由「FenceLab」這研究單位所設計，
02:27
where they would load vehicles
with 10,000 pounds
with 10,000 pounds
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他們在那兒開載重 10,000 磅的車，
02:30
and ram them into the wall
at 40 miles an hour
at 40 miles an hour
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以 40 英里時速撞擊，
02:32
to test the wall's impermeability.
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來測試牆的抗穿透性。
02:34
But there was also counter-research
going on on the other side,
going on on the other side,
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但另一邊也有人做對應的研究，
02:37
the design of portable drawbridges
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設計可攜式吊橋，
02:40
that you could bring right up to the wall
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你可以把它帶到牆邊架起，
02:42
and allow vehicles to drive right over.
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由牆上開車過去。
02:44
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:46
And like with all research projects,
there are successes
there are successes
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如同所有的研究項目，
有的成功，有的失敗。
02:49
and there are failures.
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（笑聲）
02:50
(Laughter)
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02:52
But it's these medieval
reactions to the wall --
reactions to the wall --
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但這是種中世紀對牆的反應——
例如吊橋——
02:55
drawbridges, for example --
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02:57
that are because the wall itself is
an arcane, medieval form of architecture.
an arcane, medieval form of architecture.
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那是因為牆本身就是一種
神秘的中世紀建築形式。
神秘的中世紀建築形式。
03:03
It's an overly simplistic response
to a complex set of issues.
to a complex set of issues.
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這是對於一系列複雜的問題
所做出過於簡單的回應。
所做出過於簡單的回應。
03:09
And a number of medieval technologies
have sprung up along the wall:
have sprung up along the wall:
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還有另一些中世紀的技術
沿著牆壁如雨後春筍般湧現：
沿著牆壁如雨後春筍般湧現：
例如用投射機將
整袋大麻拋過圍牆，
整袋大麻拋過圍牆，
03:13
catapults that launch
bales of marijuana over the wall
bales of marijuana over the wall
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03:16
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
03:17
or cannons that shoot packets
of cocaine and heroin over the wall.
of cocaine and heroin over the wall.
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或用大砲將可卡因
和海洛因包裹射過去。
和海洛因包裹射過去。
03:22
Now during medieval times,
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在中世紀，
03:24
diseased, dead bodies
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有時將病死的屍體投射過城牆，
03:26
were sometimes catapulted over walls
as an early form of biological warfare,
as an early form of biological warfare,
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作為生物戰的早期形式；
03:31
and it's speculated that today,
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時至今日也有傳言，
03:34
humans are being propelled over the wall
as a form of immigration.
as a form of immigration.
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說有人以被拋過牆的方式來移民。
真是荒謬的主意。
03:41
A ridiculous idea.
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正式紀錄上僅有一人
03:43
But the only person ever known to be
documented to have launched over the wall
documented to have launched over the wall
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被由墨西哥拋進美國。
03:49
from Mexico to the United States
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他其實是美國公民，
03:51
was in fact a US citizen,
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事先申請了人肉砲彈表演的許可，
03:53
who was given permission
to human-cannonball over the wall,
to human-cannonball over the wall,
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飛越 200 英呎，
03:57
200 feet,
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03:58
so long as he carried his passport in hand
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條件是他必須帶著護照。
04:00
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:03
and he landed safely in a net
on the other side.
on the other side.
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他成功降落在另一邊的網子上。
04:07
And my thoughts are inspired
by a quote by the architect Hassan Fathy,
by a quote by the architect Hassan Fathy,
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建築師哈桑·法西的話，
對我的想法很有啟發。
對我的想法很有啟發。
04:12
who said,
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他說：
04:13
"Architects do not design walls,
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「建築師不設計牆壁，
設計的是牆壁之間的空間。」
04:15
but the spaces between them."
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04:18
So while I do not think that architects
should be designing walls,
should be designing walls,
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因此我不認為建築師
應該去設計牆壁，
應該去設計牆壁，
我認為更重要、更急迫的是
04:21
I do think it's important and urgent
that they should be paying attention
that they should be paying attention
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他們該著眼於牆與牆間的空間。
04:25
to those spaces in between.
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04:27
They should be designing for the places
and the people, the landscapes
and the people, the landscapes
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他們應該為這些地方
受了那堵牆危害的人與風景來設計。
04:31
that the wall endangers.
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現在人們已經站出來。
04:34
Now, people are already
rising to this occasion,
rising to this occasion,
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04:37
and while the purpose of the wall
is to keep people apart and away,
is to keep people apart and away,
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雖然牆的目的是將人分開，
它反而以非凡的方式，
將人凝聚在一起。
將人凝聚在一起。
04:42
it's actually bringing people together
in some really remarkable ways,
in some really remarkable ways,
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04:46
holding social events like
binational yoga classes along the border,
binational yoga classes along the border,
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他們舉辦社交活動，像是
沿著邊界的跨國瑜伽課，
沿著邊界的跨國瑜伽課，
04:49
to bring people together
across the divide.
across the divide.
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將被分隔的人帶到了一起。
這一招我稱之為「紀念碑式」。
04:52
I call this the monument pose.
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04:54
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:56
And have you ever heard of "wall y ball"?
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你們有沒有聽說過「牆球」？
04:59
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:01
It's a borderland version of volleyball,
and it's been played since 1979
and it's been played since 1979
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這是一個邊境版的排球，
早自 1979 年便有人……
早自 1979 年便有人……
（笑聲）
05:06
(Laughter)
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沿著美墨邊境玩，
05:08
along the US-Mexico border
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05:09
to celebrate binational heritage.
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來慶祝兩國的傳承。
05:12
And it raises some
interesting questions, right?
interesting questions, right?
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這引發了一些有趣的問題，是不是？
05:14
Is such a game even legal?
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這樣的遊戲究竟合不合法？
05:18
Does hitting a ball back and forth
over the wall constitute illegal trade?
over the wall constitute illegal trade?
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在牆頭上將球打過來打過去，
是否構成非法貿易？
是否構成非法貿易？
05:21
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:23
The beauty of volleyball
is that it transforms the wall
is that it transforms the wall
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排球的美，
在於它將牆化為沙子上的一條線，
05:28
into nothing more than a line in the sand
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05:31
negotiated by the minds and bodies
and spirits of players on both sides.
and spirits of players on both sides.
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由雙方球員的思想、
身體和精神協商而來。
身體和精神協商而來。
05:36
And I think it's exactly
these kinds of two-sided negotiations
these kinds of two-sided negotiations
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而且我認為要撤掉這堵分裂的牆，
05:40
that are needed to bring down
walls that divide.
walls that divide.
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所需要的正是這種雙邊協商。
05:44
Now, throwing the ball
over the wall is one thing,
over the wall is one thing,
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扔球過去是一回事，
把石頭扔過圍牆又是另一回事。
05:47
but throwing rocks over the wall
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05:50
has caused damage
to Border Patrol vehicles
to Border Patrol vehicles
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砸壞了邊境巡邏車，
傷到邊巡人員，
05:53
and have injured Border Patrol agents,
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這也引發了美方的激烈反應。
05:56
and the response from the US side
has been drastic.
has been drastic.
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05:59
Border Patrol agents
have fired through the wall,
have fired through the wall,
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邊巡人員朝圍牆另一邊開槍，
06:02
killing people throwing rocks
on the Mexican side.
on the Mexican side.
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打死了墨西哥方面扔石頭的人。
06:06
And another response
by Border Patrol agents
by Border Patrol agents
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邊巡人員的另一種回應，
06:09
is to erect baseball backstops
to protect themselves and their vehicles.
to protect themselves and their vehicles.
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是豎立起棒球場那種擋球網
來保護人員和車輛。
來保護人員和車輛。
06:13
And these backstops
became a permanent feature
became a permanent feature
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在建造新牆的時候，
擋球網已經成了標準設施。
06:16
in the construction of new walls.
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06:19
And I began to wonder if, like volleyball,
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我開始想：和排球一樣，
06:22
maybe baseball should be
a permanent feature at the border,
a permanent feature at the border,
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也許棒球應該是邊境的標準設施，
06:26
and walls could start opening up,
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邊牆可以開始開放，
06:28
allowing communities
to come across and play,
to come across and play,
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讓附近社區一起來玩。
06:31
and if they hit a home run,
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如果打了個全壘打，
06:33
maybe a Border Patrol agent would
pick up the ball and throw it
pick up the ball and throw it
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或許邊巡人員會幫忙撿起球，
06:36
back over to the other side.
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扔回牆的另一邊。
06:39
A Border Patrol agent buys
a raspado, a frozen treat,
a raspado, a frozen treat,
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這裡的邊巡人員
向幾英呎外的小販購買墨西哥冰沙，
06:43
from a vendor just a couple feet away,
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06:46
food and money is exchanged
through the wall,
through the wall,
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食物和錢穿過牆交換，
06:49
an entirely normal event
made illegal by that line drawn on a map
made illegal by that line drawn on a map
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一件完全正常的事，
但被地圖上的一條線
及幾毫米厚的鋼材劃定為非法。
及幾毫米厚的鋼材劃定為非法。
06:56
and a couple millimeters of steel.
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06:59
And this scene reminded me of a saying:
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這一幕讓我想起了一句話：
07:02
"If you have more than you need,
you should build longer tables
you should build longer tables
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「如果你有多的，
應該要擺更大的客桌，
應該要擺更大的客桌，
07:05
and not higher walls."
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而不是築更高的牆。」
07:06
So I created this souvenir to remember
the moment that we could share
the moment that we could share
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所以我做了這個紀念品，
來紀念我們可以跨越藩籬
來紀念我們可以跨越藩籬
分享食物和對話的那一刻。
07:10
food and conversation across the divide.
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07:13
A swing allows one to enter
and swing over to the other side
and swing over to the other side
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這個鞦韆讓人進去，盪到另一邊，
07:17
until gravity deports them back
to their own country.
to their own country.
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直到重力將他遣返原居國。
07:20
The border and the border wall
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邊界和邊界牆
07:23
is thought of as a sort of
political theater today,
political theater today,
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今天被當作政治劇場看待，
07:28
so perhaps we should invite
audiences to that theater,
audiences to that theater,
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也許我們應該邀請觀眾到那個劇院，
07:32
to a binational theater
where people can come together
where people can come together
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一個兩國劇院，人們可以
和表演者、音樂家聚在一起。
07:35
with performers, musicians.
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07:38
Maybe the wall is nothing more
than an enormous instrument,
than an enormous instrument,
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也許這牆不過是一個巨大的樂器，
07:41
the world's largest xylophone,
and we could play down this wall
and we could play down this wall
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世界上最大的木琴，而我們
可以用大規模打擊性樂器
可以用大規模打擊性樂器
來打下這堵牆。
07:45
with weapons of mass percussion.
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07:47
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
07:50
When I envisioned this binational library,
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當我構想這座兩國圖書館，
07:52
I wanted to imagine a space
where one could share
where one could share
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我想像一個人們可以共享
07:56
books and information
and knowledge across a divide,
and knowledge across a divide,
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書籍、信息和知識，
跨越鴻溝的地方，
跨越鴻溝的地方，
08:01
where the wall was nothing more
than a bookshelf.
than a bookshelf.
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那裡面牆只不過是個書架。
08:04
And perhaps the best way to illustrate
the mutual relationship that we have
the mutual relationship that we have
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也許墨西哥和美國間的相互關係
最好的說明方式
08:08
with Mexico and the United States
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08:10
is by imagining a teeter-totter,
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是想像一個蹺蹺板：
08:13
where the actions on one side
had a direct consequence
had a direct consequence
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一方的行動，
會直接影響到另一方。
08:16
on what happens on the other side,
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08:18
because you see, the border itself
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因為，你看，邊界本身
08:20
is both a symbolic and literal fulcrum
for US-Mexico relations,
for US-Mexico relations,
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是一個美墨關係上的支點，
而在鄰居之間建牆
就切斷了那些關係。
就切斷了那些關係。
08:25
and building walls between neighbors
severs those relationships.
severs those relationships.
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08:30
You probably remember this quote,
"Good fences make good neighbors."
"Good fences make good neighbors."
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你可能還記得這句話：
「有好圍牆，才有好鄰居。」
「有好圍牆，才有好鄰居。」
08:34
It's often thought of as the moral
of Robert Frost's poem "Mending Wall."
of Robert Frost's poem "Mending Wall."
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它常被認為是羅伯．佛洛斯特的
詩《修補牆》的寓意。
詩《修補牆》的寓意。
08:39
But the poem is really about questioning
the need for building walls at all.
the need for building walls at all.
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但其實這首詩在質疑需不需要建牆。
事實上它是一首關於
修補人際關係的詩。
修補人際關係的詩。
08:44
It's really a poem about mending
human relationships.
human relationships.
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08:47
My favorite line is the first one:
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我最喜歡第一句：
08:49
"Something there is
that doesn't love a wall."
that doesn't love a wall."
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「有個東西不愛牆。」
08:53
Because if there's one thing
that's clear to me --
that's clear to me --
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因為我很清楚——
不存在被牆界定出的不同兩面。
08:55
there are not two sides defined by a wall.
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08:58
This is one landscape, divided.
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它不過是被牆割裂的同一景觀。
在一邊，它可能看起來像這樣：
09:01
On one side, it might look like this.
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09:03
A man is mowing his lawn
while the wall is looming in his backyard.
while the wall is looming in his backyard.
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一個人在割草，有片牆
緊傍著他的後院。
緊傍著他的後院。
09:07
And on the other side,
it might look like this.
it might look like this.
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在另一邊，它可能
看起來像這樣：
看起來像這樣：
那片牆是某人房子
四面牆壁中的一面。
四面牆壁中的一面。
09:09
The wall is the fourth wall
of someone's house.
of someone's house.
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但現實情況是牆正在
切割人們的生活。
切割人們的生活。
09:13
But the reality is that the wall
is cutting through people's lives.
is cutting through people's lives.
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它切過我們的私人財產、
09:18
It is cutting through
our private property,
our private property,
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我們的公共土地、
09:21
our public lands,
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我們美洲原住民的土地、
我們的城市、
我們的城市、
09:22
our Native American lands, our cities,
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一所大學、
09:25
a university,
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我們的社區。
09:27
our neighborhoods.
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09:29
And I couldn't help but wonder
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我很想知道
09:30
what it would be like if the wall
cut through a house.
cut through a house.
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牆穿過房子是什怎樣的情景？
09:34
Remember those disparities
between wealth and poverty?
between wealth and poverty?
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還記得那些貧富的差距嗎？
右邊是美國德州
埃爾帕索的房子平均大小，
埃爾帕索的房子平均大小，
09:37
On the right is the average size
of a house in El Paso, Texas,
of a house in El Paso, Texas,
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而左邊是墨西哥
華雷斯的房子平均尺寸。
華雷斯的房子平均尺寸。
09:40
and on the left is the average size
of a house in Juarez.
of a house in Juarez.
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09:43
And here, the wall cuts directly
through the kitchen table.
through the kitchen table.
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在這裡，牆壁直接切過廚房的桌子。
在這裡，牆壁穿過臥室裡的床。
09:47
And here, the wall cuts through
the bed in the bedroom.
the bed in the bedroom.
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09:51
Because I wanted to communicate
how the wall is not only dividing places,
how the wall is not only dividing places,
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因為我想要傳達的是：
牆不僅僅分隔了地域，
牆不僅僅分隔了地域，
09:55
it's dividing people,
it's dividing families.
it's dividing families.
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它也分隔了人，分隔了家庭。
09:58
And the unfortunate politics of the wall
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今日不幸的邊界牆政治
10:00
is today, it is dividing children
from their parents.
from their parents.
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讓小孩與父母分離。
你可能熟悉這個有名的交通標誌。
10:04
You might be familiar
with this well-known traffic sign.
with this well-known traffic sign.
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10:07
It was designed
by graphic designer John Hood,
by graphic designer John Hood,
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由平面設計師約翰．胡德設計，
他是美洲原住民、退伍軍人，
10:11
a Native American war veteran
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10:12
working for the California
Department of Transportation.
Department of Transportation.
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在加州交通運輸部工作。
10:16
And he was tasked with creating
a sign to warn motorists
a sign to warn motorists
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他被指派設計一個標誌，
用以提醒駕駛人
用以提醒駕駛人
10:19
of immigrants who were stranded
alongside the highway
alongside the highway
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在高速公路邊的移民者
10:22
and who might attempt
to run across the road.
to run across the road.
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可能冒險橫越馬路。
今天移民的困境，讓胡德聯想到
10:26
Hood related the plight
of the immigrant today
of the immigrant today
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10:29
to that of the Navajo
during the Long Walk.
during the Long Walk.
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納瓦霍印第安人
被迫長途遷徙的血淚史。
被迫長途遷徙的血淚史。
這真是一件設計
行動主義的精彩作品。
行動主義的精彩作品。
10:33
And this is really a brilliant piece
of design activism.
of design activism.
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他非常細心地思考，
10:37
And he was very careful
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10:38
in thinking about using
a little girl with pigtails, for example,
a little girl with pigtails, for example,
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例如採用紮辮子的小女孩，
10:42
because he thought that's who motorists
might empathize with the most,
might empathize with the most,
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因為那可能更容易
讓駕駛人產生同情；
讓駕駛人產生同情；
10:46
and he used the silhouette
of the civil rights leader Cesar Chavez
of the civil rights leader Cesar Chavez
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他也採用了民權領袖
西薩．查維斯的剪影
西薩．查維斯的剪影
10:51
to create the head of the father.
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作為那個父親的頭像。
10:53
I wanted to build upon
the brilliance of this sign
the brilliance of this sign
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我想繼續延伸這個標誌的光彩，
10:57
to call attention to the problem
of child separation at the border,
of child separation at the border,
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來喚起大家注意在邊境
兒童與父母被分離這個問題。
兒童與父母被分離這個問題。
我做了一個非常簡單的改動，
11:00
and I made one very simple move.
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11:02
I turned the families to face each other.
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讓這家人面對面。
11:05
And in the last few weeks,
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過去幾週裡，
11:06
I've had the opportunity
to bring that sign back to the highway
to bring that sign back to the highway
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我把那個標誌帶回高速公路
11:09
to tell a story,
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去講故事，
11:11
the story of the relationships
that we should be mending
that we should be mending
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講我們應該修補關係的故事，
11:15
and a reminder that we should be designing
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提醒我們應該設計團結的國家，
11:17
a reunited states
and not a divided states.
and not a divided states.
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而不是分裂的國家。
謝謝。
11:21
Thank you.
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11:22
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ronald Rael - ArchitectRonald Rael draws, builds, writes, 3D-prints and teaches about architecture as a cultural endeavor deeply influenced by a unique upbringing in a desolate alpine valley in southern Colorado.
Why you should listen
As the San Francisco Chronicle writes, "[Ronald Rael's] imagination is audacious. He speculates on the implications of a border wall, building with mud and using 3D printers to create buildings -- as seen in his books Borderwall as Architecture, Earth Architecture and Printing Architecture, with his partner, architect and educator Virginia San Fratello.
Rael is a professor of architecture at the University of California, Berkeley and is a founding partner of the Oakland based Make-Tank, Emerging Objects. You can see his drawings, models and objects in the permanent collections of the Museum of Modern Art, the Cooper Hewitt Design Museum and the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art.
Ronald Rael | Speaker | TED.com