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Halla Tómasdóttir and Bryn Freedman: The crisis of leadership -- and a new way forward
海拉·托马斯多特 和 布林·弗里德曼: 领导力危机——和一个新的前进方向
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现代化的领导力是什么样的？海拉·托马斯多特，一名企业家，同时也是前冰岛总统候选人认为。全球的领导人们需要改变他们的领导方式——不然他们可能就会变得无关紧要。在与策展人布林·弗里德曼的交谈中，她展示了我们每个人可以如何站出来并带来影响，尽管你还没有权力。“我们每个人心中都有一个领导人”，她这么说，“并且我们生命中最重要的一件事就是去释放那位领导。”
Halla Tómasdóttir - Change catalyst
Icelandic entrepreneur Halla Tómasdóttir believes that if you’re going to change things, you have to do it from the inside. She infused the world of finance with “feminine values," which helped her survive the financial meltdown in Iceland and nearly made her president. Full bioBryn Freedman - Editorial director and curator, TED Institute
Bryn Freedman helps those who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way. Full bio
Icelandic entrepreneur Halla Tómasdóttir believes that if you’re going to change things, you have to do it from the inside. She infused the world of finance with “feminine values," which helped her survive the financial meltdown in Iceland and nearly made her president. Full bioBryn Freedman - Editorial director and curator, TED Institute
Bryn Freedman helps those who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Bryn Freedman: So you keep
talking about leadership
talking about leadership
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布林·弗里德曼（BF）：
您一直说领导力
您一直说领导力
是真正的遵从危机。
00:15
as a real crisis of conformity.
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能给大家解释一下是什么意思吗？
00:17
Can you explain to us
what you mean by that?
what you mean by that?
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您认为怎么样才算是遵从危机？
00:19
What do you see as a crisis of conformity?
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海拉·汤马斯多特（HT）：
我认为以下情况就是一种遵从危机：
我认为以下情况就是一种遵从危机：
00:22
Halla Tómasdóttir:
I think it's a crisis of conformity
I think it's a crisis of conformity
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当我们一直继续按照
我们平时的方式来做生意和领导别人，
我们平时的方式来做生意和领导别人，
00:24
when we continue to do business
and lead in the way we always have,
and lead in the way we always have,
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但已经有不可忽视的事实指出
00:28
yet the evidence is overwhelming
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这个世界需要我们改变我们做事的方式。
00:31
that the world needs us
to change our ways.
to change our ways.
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00:34
So let's look a little bit
at that evidence.
at that evidence.
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让我们来看下一部分事实。
00:37
Science has told us
that we're facing a climate crisis,
that we're facing a climate crisis,
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科学告诫我们
我们正面临着气候危机，
我们正面临着气候危机，
然而有四成的董事会董事
00:40
yet 40 percent of board directors
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却并不认为气候问题应该出现在会议室。
00:42
don't think climate belongs
in the boardroom.
in the boardroom.
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00:45
And we have kids marching
in the streets now,
in the streets now,
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现在有孩子在街上示威游行，
要求我们为他们的未来负责。
00:48
asking us to be accountable
for their future.
for their future.
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00:51
We have a crisis of inequality.
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我们面临着不平等危机。
现在不只在法国的街头有“黄背心”，
00:54
We have Yellow Jackets
not just in the streets of France,
not just in the streets of France,
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全世界都存在，
00:56
but all over the world,
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但我们仍然可以看见有企业
00:58
and yet we continue to see examples
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和其他领导人为那些怒火火上浇油。
01:00
of businesses and other leaders
fueling that anger.
fueling that anger.
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01:04
BF: Do you think
the pitchforks are coming?
the pitchforks are coming?
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BF：您认为“干草叉”（指法国大革命中
人民起义时所持武器）会到来吗？
人民起义时所持武器）会到来吗？
HT：我认为这肯定是不可持续的。
01:06
HT: I definitely think
this is not sustainable.
this is not sustainable.
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而且我们之所以很难对付
01:09
And the reason why it's so difficult
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这些互相关联的危机，
01:11
for us to deal with these complicated
crises that are interrelated
crises that are interrelated
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是因为我们正处于互相信任的最低点。
01:15
is that we are at the lowest levels
of trust we've ever been at.
of trust we've ever been at.
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01:19
In the UK, three percent of people
trust their government
trust their government
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在英国，只有3%的民众信任政府
能处理好脱欧危机，
01:22
to solve the Brexit crisis,
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那还只是十二月份的数字。
01:23
and that was in December.
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我认为这个数字可能已经变得更低了。
01:25
I think it's probably gone
down since then.
down since then.
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BF：您认为新的领导力
应该是什么样的？
应该是什么样的？
01:27
BF: What do you think
new leadership actually looks like?
new leadership actually looks like?
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HT：我们需要勇敢的领导人，
01:31
HT: We need courageous leaders,
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但他们也必须要谦逊。
01:33
yet they have to be humble.
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而且他们必须是被道德标准所指引着的，
01:34
And they have to be guided
by a moral compass,
by a moral compass,
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这个道德标准包括
有一个社会目标——
有一个社会目标——
01:37
and the moral compass is the combination
of having a social purpose --
of having a social purpose --
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如果你没有为社会做出贡献的目标，
01:41
you can't have your license
to operate anymore
to operate anymore
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你就不能继续持有经营执照，
01:44
without a purpose
that contributes to society,
that contributes to society,
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但对我而言，在意见交流中
所缺乏的是一组原则。
所缺乏的是一组原则。
01:47
but what, to me, has been missing
from that dialogue is a set of principles.
from that dialogue is a set of principles.
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我们不能仅定义我们为何存在，
01:51
We cannot just define why we exist,
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我们必须定义我们未来要怎样做生意，
01:54
we have to define
how we're going to do business
how we're going to do business
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怎样去领导。
01:57
and how we're going to lead.
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对我们来说，这意味着我们要去
解决这些迫切的危机：
解决这些迫切的危机：
01:58
And to us, that has to be
to solve these imminent crises:
to solve these imminent crises:
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气候危机，
02:02
the climate crisis,
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不平等危机，
02:03
the crisis of inequality
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和信任危机。
02:05
and the crisis of trust.
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所以，在“B 团队”，
02:06
So at The B Team,
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我们很乐于将可持续性，平等，
及可靠性来作为我们的原则。
及可靠性来作为我们的原则。
02:07
we embrace sustainability, equality
and accountability as our principles.
and accountability as our principles.
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BF：您认为这一整个关于目的的问题
是否只是为了粉饰太平？
是否只是为了粉饰太平？
02:12
BF: Do you think this whole question
of purpose is really window dressing --
of purpose is really window dressing --
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他们只是说出了他们认为大众想听的话，
02:17
they're saying what they think
people want to hear,
people want to hear,
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但实际上却并没有做出实质性的，
02:20
but they're actually not making
the fundamental changes
the fundamental changes
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有必要的改变？
02:22
that are necessary?
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HT：很多人都这么觉得，
02:24
HT: A lot of people feel that way,
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我认为在那背后
有更强大的推动力在作祟。
有更强大的推动力在作祟。
02:25
and I think there's a growing
momentum behind that.
momentum behind that.
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所以我认为现在的世界
正在召集负责任的领导，
正在召集负责任的领导，
02:28
So I think the world is calling
for responsible leadership now,
for responsible leadership now,
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任何想在21世纪继续领导的人，
02:31
and any leader who wants
to be around for the 21st century
to be around for the 21st century
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都必须得要开始做勇敢，全面的思考，
02:34
really needs to start thinking
courageously and holistically
courageously and holistically
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想想他们到底要如何成为
问题解决方案的一部分，
问题解决方案的一部分，
02:37
how they're going
to be part of the solution
to be part of the solution
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而不只是继续粉饰太平。
02:39
and not window-dress anymore.
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现在真的得要认真的考虑这些了。
02:41
You have to do it for real now.
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BF：您有没有见过
任何人正在做这些事？
任何人正在做这些事？
02:42
BF: Do you see anybody
out there who's doing it
out there who's doing it
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按照您认为有效的方式，
02:45
in a way that you think
is actually effective
is actually effective
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并具有切实而长期的影响？
02:48
and has a real, long-term impact?
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02:50
HT: Fortunately, we have
some great leaders out there.
some great leaders out there.
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HT：幸运的是，我们的确
有些杰出的领导人。
有些杰出的领导人。
举个例子，
02:53
And just to give one example,
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范易谋（伊曼纽尔·法伯），
B团队最新加入的成员之一，
B团队最新加入的成员之一，
02:54
Emmanuel Faber, who's one of the newest
members of The B Team,
members of The B Team,
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也是达能的首席执行官，
02:57
he's the CEO of Danone,
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世界上最大的酸奶制造商
和主要的食品公司——
和主要的食品公司——
02:59
the world's largest yogurt-maker
and major food company --
and major food company --
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一家真正的环球公司。
03:01
a real global company.
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他致力于可持续发展，
03:03
He's so committed to sustainability
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不仅改变了自己做生意的方式，
03:05
that he's not only changing the ways
of his own business,
of his own business,
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还改变了整个供应链。
03:08
but his entire supply chain.
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他也致力于平等，
当他担任首席执行官时，
当他担任首席执行官时，
03:10
He's so committed to equality
that when he took on as CEO
that when he took on as CEO
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他就说性别平衡很重要，
03:13
and he said gender balance matters,
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他创造了一个性别平衡的领导团队，
03:14
he created a gender-balanced
executive team
executive team
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并给予男性与女性平等的产假。
03:17
and gave men and women
equal maternity and paternity leave.
equal maternity and paternity leave.
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03:21
He's so committed to accountability
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他也致力于承担责任，
将自己的在美国的事业转变成了B企业。
03:23
that he turned his US operations
into a B Corporation.
into a B Corporation.
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03:27
Now many of you may not know what that is,
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许多人可能并不知道B企业是什么。
那是一家不仅谋求利润，
03:29
but that's a company
that holds itself responsible
that holds itself responsible
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还为其对人和地球造成的
影响负责的企业，
影响负责的企业，
03:31
for not just profit but its impact
on people and the planet,
on people and the planet,
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并提供透明公开的报告来说明
他们在所有这些方面的表现。
他们在所有这些方面的表现。
03:35
and transparently reports
on their performance on all of that.
on their performance on all of that.
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这是世界上最大的一家B企业。
03:38
It's the largest B Corp in the world.
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所以对我来说，
那是全面，有勇气的领导力，
那是全面，有勇气的领导力，
03:40
So to me, that's holistic,
courageous leadership,
courageous leadership,
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也是我们都需要拥有的愿景。
03:43
and it's really the vision
we all need to hold.
we all need to hold.
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BF：这是《回到未来》吗？
03:46
BF: Is this "Back to the Future"?
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我的意思是，我想知道，
当我想到那些公司——
当我想到那些公司——
03:47
I mean, I wonder,
when I think about companies --
when I think about companies --
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脑海中出现了美国的
安海斯-布希公司——
安海斯-布希公司——
03:50
Anheuser-Busch comes to mind in America --
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一家拥有一百多年历史的企业，
投资他自己的社区，
投资他自己的社区，
03:53
a 100-year-old company
that invested in its community,
that invested in its community,
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在一切都结束之前（赔钱，并被卖出），
03:56
that gave a living wage
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03:57
before it ended up, you know,
losing and getting sold.
losing and getting sold.
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仍然发给员工维生的工资。
我们现在真的在寻找这种
既全球化又是社区公民的公司，
既全球化又是社区公民的公司，
04:00
Are we really looking now for companies
that are global and community citizens,
that are global and community citizens,
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还是这些甚至都已经不管用了？
04:05
or is that something that is not
even useful anymore?
even useful anymore?
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HT：其实你可以因为
风险太高的原因
风险太高的原因
04:09
HT: Well, you can do this for the reason
that it's risky, actually,
that it's risky, actually,
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继续不做“正确”的事情。
04:13
to continue without doing
the right thing now.
the right thing now.
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你就吸引不到合适的人才，
04:15
You can't attract the right talent,
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吸引不到顾客，
04:17
you can't attract customers
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渐渐地，你也吸引不到资金。
04:18
and increasingly,
you won't be able to attract capital.
you won't be able to attract capital.
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你可能会为了高风险的原因来做这件事，
04:21
You might do it for risk reasons,
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也可能是为了商业机遇的原因。
04:22
you might do it for business
opportunity reasons,
opportunity reasons,
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因为成长就来源于此，
04:25
because this is where the growth is,
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这也就是为什么很多
领导人都在做正确的事。
领导人都在做正确的事。
04:27
which is why many leaders
are doing the right thing.
are doing the right thing.
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但到最后，
04:30
But at the end of the day,
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我们需要扪心自问：
04:31
we need to ask ourselves:
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“我们在对谁负责任？”
04:33
"Who are we holding
ourselves accountable for?"
ourselves accountable for?"
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如果那指的不是下一代人的话，
04:36
And if that isn't the next generation,
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我也不知道还能是谁了。
04:37
I don't know who.
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所以，我只想说清楚，
04:39
So I want to just make very clear,
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因为通常当我们想到领导力这个词的时候，
04:41
because we tend to think about leadership
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我们只会想到那些坐拥权力的人。
04:43
as only those who sit
in positions of power.
in positions of power.
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但对我来说，领导力完全不是那样的。
04:46
To me, leadership is not at all like that.
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我们每个人心中都有一个领导人，
04:48
There's a leader inside
every single one of us,
every single one of us,
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并且我们一生中最重要的工作
就是去释放那位领导人。
就是去释放那位领导人。
04:51
and our most important work in life
is to release that leader.
is to release that leader.
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我认为全世界范围内
一个最伟大的例子
一个最伟大的例子
04:55
And I think one of the greatest
global examples we have
global examples we have
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没有权力的人——
04:57
of someone who didn't --
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05:00
no one gave her power --
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没有任何人给她权力——
那是一个16岁的女孩，
名叫格蕾塔·桑伯格。
名叫格蕾塔·桑伯格。
05:01
is the 16-year-old girl
called Greta Thunberg.
called Greta Thunberg.
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她来自瑞典，
05:04
She's from Sweden,
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几年前，她成为了真正的——
05:05
and a few years ago, she really became --
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她患有亚斯伯格综合征，
05:08
she has Asperger's,
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她变得对气候危机充满激情——
05:09
and she became passionate
about our climate crisis --
about our climate crisis --
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了解了关于它的一切。
05:12
learned everything about it.
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面对那些事实，
05:13
And faced with the evidence,
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她感到对自己的“领导力”非常失望，
05:14
she just felt so disappointed
in her leadership
in her leadership
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由此，她开始在瑞典议会前
举行抗议活动。
举行抗议活动。
05:17
that she started striking
in front of the Swedish parliament.
in front of the Swedish parliament.
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现在她已经发起了一项全球运动，
05:21
And now she has started a global movement,
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成百上千的学生走上了街头，
05:23
and hundreds and thousands
of school kids are out in the streets
of school kids are out in the streets
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要求我们对他们的未来负起责任。
05:26
asking us to hold ourselves
accountable for their future.
accountable for their future.
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05:29
No one gave her that authority,
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没有人给予她那些权力，
现在她能与全世界
各个国家的领导人对话，
各个国家的领导人对话，
05:32
and she now speaks to the leaders
of the world, heads of state,
of the world, heads of state,
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并真正的影响着世界。
05:35
and really is impacting the world.
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所以我真的认为如今
我们谈论起领导力时，
我们谈论起领导力时，
05:37
So I really think that when we think
about leadership today,
about leadership today,
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它不能被定义成坐拥权力的那些人，
05:41
it can't be defined
to those in positions of power
to those in positions of power
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尽管他们负担着大得多的责任。
05:44
though they have disproportionately
greater responsibility.
greater responsibility.
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但我们所有人都应该想想，
05:47
But all of us need to think about,
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“我在做什么？”
05:49
"What am I doing?"
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“我在如何贡献？”
05:50
"How am I contributing?"
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我们得放出内心的领导人，
05:52
And we need to release that leader inside
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并真正开始造成这个世界
05:54
and actually start making
the positive impact
the positive impact
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所需要的影响。
05:56
this world is calling for right now.
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05:58
BF: But we have such
hierarchical leadership.
hierarchical leadership.
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BF：但我们现在的领导力是阶层式的。
我的意思是，我理解您说的——
06:01
I mean, I understand what you're saying --
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释放内心中的领导人是很好——
06:03
it's nice to release the leader inside --
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但在这些企业中，
06:05
but in these corporations,
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事实是，他们非常重阶级。
06:07
the truth is, it's extremely hierarchical.
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公司能做些什么
06:09
What can companies do
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才能创造更扁平而非垂直的同事关系？
06:11
to create less vertical
and more horizontal relationships?
and more horizontal relationships?
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HT：我很相信并一直以来都很热切的希望
06:16
HT: Well, I'm a big believer
and I've long been passionate
and I've long been passionate
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能消除性别落差，
06:19
about closing the gender gap,
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并且我真的相信性别均衡的
领导层是能达到
领导层是能达到
06:20
and I really believe gender-balanced
leadership is the way to go
leadership is the way to go
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一种公认的更强大的领导风格的方式，
06:24
in order to embrace a leadership style
that has been shown to be more powerful,
that has been shown to be more powerful,
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也就是当男性和女性都能拥抱
06:29
and that's when both men and women embrace
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男性化和女性化所带来的价值时。
06:31
both masculine and feminine values.
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06:34
It actually is proven in research
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事实上已经有研究表明
那是最有效的一种领导模式。
06:35
that that's the most
effective leadership style.
effective leadership style.
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但我现在更多的在思考
该如何缩小年龄差距，
该如何缩小年龄差距，
06:39
But I'm increasingly now thinking
about how we close the generational gap,
about how we close the generational gap,
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因为当我看到现在年纪小的孩子
在全世界的街头呼吁——
在全世界的街头呼吁——
06:43
because look at these young children
in the streets around the world --
in the streets around the world --
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他们在要求我们去领导。
06:46
they're asking us to lead.
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科菲·安南曾说过：
“领导永远也不会嫌年轻。”
“领导永远也不会嫌年轻。”
06:48
Kofi Annan used to say,
"You're never too young to lead."
"You're never too young to lead."
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他通常会加上一句，
06:51
And then he would add,
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“活到老学到老。”
06:53
"Or too old to learn."
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我认为我们已经跨入了这样一个时代，
06:54
And I think we have now entered this era
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我们既需要这些经验人士的智慧，
06:57
where we need the wisdom
of those with experience,
of those with experience,
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也需要年轻的数字原生代
(儿时起便使用因特网和手机的人)
(儿时起便使用因特网和手机的人)
07:01
but we need the digital natives
of the young generation
of the young generation
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来互相指导或指导我们，
07:04
to co-mentor or to mentor us
just as much as we can help
just as much as we can help
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就像我们能用前人的经验帮助他们一样。
07:08
with wisdom from the older people.
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所以这是一种新的现实，
07:11
So it's a new reality,
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那些老旧的，类似等级制度的思考方式，
07:12
and these old, sort of hierarchical
ways to think about things,
ways to think about things,
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会变得越来越禁不起这种现实的考验。
07:15
they're increasingly coming
under pressure in this reality.
under pressure in this reality.
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BF：您其实已经称之为“自负综合征”。
07:18
BF: And you've actually called
that the hubris syndrome.
that the hubris syndrome.
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能多讲讲吗？
07:21
Can you talk about that?
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HT：当然，我认为自负
是领导方式中的毒瘤。
是领导方式中的毒瘤。
07:22
HT: Well, yes, I think hubris
is our cancer in leadership.
is our cancer in leadership.
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也就是领导认为自己知道一切，
07:27
That's when leaders
think they know it all,
think they know it all,
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能完成一切，有了所有问题的答案，
07:29
can do it all, have all the answers
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认为他们不需要听取
07:31
and don't think they need
to surround themselves
to surround themselves
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那些能让他们变得更好的人的建议。
07:33
with people who will make them better,
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对我来说，在某些情况下，
指的是更多的女性，年轻人，
指的是更多的女性，年轻人，
07:35
which to me would, in some cases,
be more women and younger people
be more women and younger people
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和总体更多元，有别的想法的人。
07:38
and people who are diverse
and have different opinions in general.
and have different opinions in general.
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自负综合征在领导层很普遍，
07:42
Hubris syndrome is so present
in leadership still,
in leadership still,
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遮这样的例子不胜枚举。
07:46
and we know many examples of them,
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我不需要说出来，
问题在于——
问题在于——
07:47
I don't need to name them.
And the problem with that --
And the problem with that --
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（笑声）
07:50
(Laughter)
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是的，我们都了解那些例子
——在全世界都有，
——在全世界都有，
07:51
Yeah, we know them -- all over the world,
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不只在这个国家有。
07:54
not just in this country.
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但这种领导力并不能
解放别人心中的领导人。
解放别人心中的领导人。
07:55
But that kind of leadership
doesn't unleash leaders in others.
doesn't unleash leaders in others.
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08:00
No one person,
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没有一个人，
甚至没有一个领域
有我们需要的解决办法——
有我们需要的解决办法——
08:02
or no one sector even has the solutions
we now need to come up with --
we now need to come up with --
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我们需要的创造力和合作精神。
08:06
the creativity and collaboration we need.
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08:10
The bold and the brave leadership
we need to come up with solutions
we need to come up with solutions
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没有我们需要的那种那种大胆，
勇敢的领导方式来
勇敢的领导方式来
跨越政府部门，私营部门，
社会生活，年轻人，老人，
社会生活，年轻人，老人，
08:14
that cross government, private sector,
civil society, young people, older people,
civil society, young people, older people,
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各种背景的人，
把这些人组织起来，
把这些人组织起来，
08:19
people of all different backgrounds
coming together is the way
coming together is the way
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从而想出我们所面临问题的解决办法。
08:23
to solve the issues
that are in front of us.
that are in front of us.
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BF：您认为那是来自
自下而上的领导，
自下而上的领导，
08:25
BF: Do you see that kind of leadership
coming from the bottom-up
coming from the bottom-up
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还是自上而下的领导？
08:29
or the top-down,
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还是您认为将会有一个
危机出现，迫使我们
危机出现，迫使我们
08:30
or do you think a crisis
is going to force us
is going to force us
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来重新审视所有的这些？
08:33
into a reexamination of all of this?
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08:35
HT: Well, as someone who lived through
the most infamous financial meltdown
the most infamous financial meltdown
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HT：作为一个经历了
我的祖国冰岛，史上最声名狼藉的
我的祖国冰岛，史上最声名狼藉的
金融危机的人，
08:39
in my home country, Iceland,
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我希望我们不需要再经历
另一个危机才能学习或觉醒。
另一个危机才能学习或觉醒。
08:40
I hope we don't need another one
to learn or to wake up.
to learn or to wake up.
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08:44
But I do see that we can't choose
one or the other.
one or the other.
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但我认为我们不能
仅选择其中一种领导方式。
仅选择其中一种领导方式。
08:47
We do have to transform the way we lead --
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我们必须转变我们现有的领导方式——
从权力顶端，会议室，
首席执行官们开始——
首席执行官们开始——
08:52
from the top, the boardroom, the CEOs --
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我们的确需要转变那些，
08:54
we really do have to transform that,
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但久而久之，我们会做到的，
08:56
but increasingly, we will transform that,
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因为我们有这些自底层，和整个社会
08:58
because we have these social
movements coming from the bottom
movements coming from the bottom
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发起的社会运动。
09:01
and throughout society.
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09:03
And the solutions exist.
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而且，解决方案是存在的。
09:05
The only thing that's missing is will.
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唯一缺少的是决心。
09:08
So if we just all find a way to embrace
a moral compass of our own
a moral compass of our own
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所以只要我们都能找到一种方法来
拥抱属于自己的道德指南针，
拥抱属于自己的道德指南针，
想明白我们为什么存在，
我们该如何领导，
我们该如何领导，
09:14
to figure out why we exist
and how we're going to lead,
and how we're going to lead,
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09:19
and if we embrace courage
and humility in equal amounts,
and humility in equal amounts,
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如果我们拥抱同等
程度的勇气与谦逊，
程度的勇气与谦逊，
那么我们每个人就都能成为
剧烈改变我们所居住社会的
剧烈改变我们所居住社会的
09:23
each one of us can be part
of this 10-year period
of this 10-year period
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十年计划中的一份子，
09:28
where we can dramatically transform
the world we live in,
the world we live in,
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并让其变得公正，
09:31
and make it just,
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变得关乎人道，而不只是金融市场。
09:32
and make it about humanity
and not just the financial markets.
and not just the financial markets.
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BF：我敢说在座的有很多人
都有问题想问您，
都有问题想问您，
09:36
BF: Well, we have a lot of people here
who I bet have questions for you,
who I bet have questions for you,
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我们还有几分钟的时间来回答观众问题。
09:39
and we have a few minutes for questions,
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有人想问海拉问题的吗？
09:41
so is there anybody that would like
to ask Halla a question?
to ask Halla a question?
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09:46
Audience: Hello, my name is Cheryl.
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观众：您好，我叫谢里尔。
我是名有抱负的领导者，
09:48
I'm an aspiring leader,
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我想问当你没有影响力
的时候是如何领导的。
的时候是如何领导的。
09:50
and I have a question about how you lead
when you have no influence.
when you have no influence.
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09:57
If I'm just an analyst,
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如果我只是一名分析师，
我想和高层管理人员对话
09:59
and I want to speak to senior management
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讨论一个我认为会影响整个公司的变化，
10:01
about a change that I feel
will affect the whole company,
will affect the whole company,
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我该如何改变他们的想法，
10:04
how do I go about changing their minds
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如果他们觉得自己好像
已经有了固定好的联系人
已经有了固定好的联系人
10:06
when they feel as if they've had
relationships that are set,
relationships that are set,
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和固定好的商业的模式？
10:10
that their way of business is set?
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当你毫无影响力的时候
该如何改变人们的想法？
该如何改变人们的想法？
10:13
How do you change minds
when you have no influence?
when you have no influence?
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HT：非常感谢你刚提出的精彩问题。
10:16
HT: Well, thank you very much
for that fantastic question.
for that fantastic question.
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有时在权力顶端的人不会听别人的，
10:19
So sometimes people
at the top won't listen,
at the top won't listen,
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但有趣的是有研究表明，尽管现在
10:21
but it's interesting that with the low
trust we have in society right now,
trust we have in society right now,
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我们社会间的信任度很低，
10:25
the greatest trust we have
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我们所接触到的最多的信任其实是来源于
10:27
is actually between the employee
and the employer,
and the employer,
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雇主和员工之间。
10:31
according to recent research.
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所以我认为那种关系可能是
最有力量能改变
最有力量能改变
10:32
So I think that relationship
may be the most powerful way
may be the most powerful way
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10:36
to actually transform
the way we do things.
the way we do things.
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我们做事情的方式的。
如果是我的话，
我会从试着建立一个联盟开始，
我会从试着建立一个联盟开始，
10:39
So I would start by trying to build
a coalition for your good idea.
a coalition for your good idea.
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10:43
And I don't know a single leader today
who will not listen to a concern
who will not listen to a concern
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而且我认识的领导里
没有一位是不会倾听
没有一位是不会倾听
很多员工都怀有的担忧。
10:49
that many of their employees hold.
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10:51
I'll give you an example
from another B Team leader,
from another B Team leader,
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我用另一个“B企业”领导人来举个例子，
马克•本尼奥夫，Salesforce的首席执行官。
10:54
Marc Benioff, the CEO of Salesforce.
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他在旧金山对于无家可归的问题，
10:56
He's really been outspoken
on homelessness in San Francisco,
on homelessness in San Francisco,
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LGBTQI群体的权利，
10:59
on LGBTQI rights,
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和其他所有他坚持捍卫的事情
一直都很大胆坦率地发表意见。
一直都很大胆坦率地发表意见。
11:03
and all of the things
that he's been standing up for,
that he's been standing up for,
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他这样做是因为他的员工关心这些问题。
11:06
he does because his employees
care about them.
care about them.
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所以不要因为自己不在权力的位置上
就觉得自己没有能量。
就觉得自己没有能量。
11:09
So don't ever think you don't have power
if you don't sit in a position of power.
if you don't sit in a position of power.
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找方法去说服你的领导，“他”
11:14
Find the way to go convince him ...
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或者“她”。
11:16
or her.
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马克曾被两位在他的组织里
工作的女性说服去结束公司里的
工作的女性说服去结束公司里的
11:17
And Marc, for example, was convinced
to close the gender pay gap by two women
to close the gender pay gap by two women
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男女之间收入不平等现象。
11:22
who worked inside of his organization,
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她们告诉马克：
“公司里的男女之间收入不平等。”
“公司里的男女之间收入不平等。”
11:24
who told him, "We have a gender pay gap."
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他不相信，告诉她们：“请给我看下数据。”
11:26
He didn't believe it;
he said, "Bring me the data."
he said, "Bring me the data."
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她们照做了，马克足够睿智，
知道这件事情应该被解决，
知道这件事情应该被解决，
11:29
They did, and he was smart enough to know
he needed to do something about it,
he needed to do something about it,
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并成为了第一批站出来，
主动解决此事的科技公司领导人。
主动解决此事的科技公司领导人。
11:32
and was one the first tech leaders
to step up and do so voluntarily.
to step up and do so voluntarily.
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11:36
So don't ever think
that you don't have power,
that you don't have power,
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所以永远别觉得你没有权力，
尽管你不在权力的位置上，
11:39
even if you don't sit
in a position of power,
in a position of power,
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也要找到其他人来支持你，
11:41
but find other people to support you
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为你的理由进行辩护。
11:44
and make the case.
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11:47
BF: Thank you.
255
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BF：谢谢。
还有其他问题吗？
11:49
Anybody else? Any other questions?
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观众：您刚所说的一切
11:50
Audience: Hi, I'm overwhelmed
by fascination
by fascination
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都让我觉得很着迷，谢谢您。
11:52
with everything you're saying,
so thank you.
so thank you.
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我只想问，意见，想法
11:55
I just wanted to ask how, like,
diversity in opinion and thought
diversity in opinion and thought
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和背景的多元
11:59
and also background
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是如何影响您的领导能力的？
12:01
has impacted your leadership ability.
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还有，您认为什么是
阻挡所有商业环境中
阻挡所有商业环境中
12:03
And what do you think is the barricade
that is limiting the overflow of diversity
that is limiting the overflow of diversity
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丰富的多样性的？
12:08
in all business settings,
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您认为什么能影响那种环境中的改变，
12:10
and what do you think can impact
the change in that setting
the change in that setting
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但同时也能扰乱越来越多的
一代代一直呆在原地的人？
一代代一直呆在原地的人？
12:13
but also to disrupt the overflow
of generations of people staying in place?
of generations of people staying in place?
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还有就是，您认为我们下一步该怎样
才能打碎一层层"玻璃天花板"？
才能打碎一层层"玻璃天花板"？
12:19
And what do you think is the next step
to breaking several glass ceilings?
to breaking several glass ceilings?
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BF：我们可能需要一整个沙龙的时间
来回答那一个问题。
来回答那一个问题。
12:24
BF: We're going to do an entire Salon
just on that question.
just on that question.
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（笑声）
12:27
(Laughter)
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HT：我觉得布林说得很对，
但还是让我试着回答一些。
但还是让我试着回答一些。
12:28
HT: I think Bryn said it well,
but let me try and touch on it.
but let me try and touch on it.
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我看待性别的方式——
我认为它像是一个光谱——
我认为它像是一个光谱——
12:31
So the way I see gender,
it is a spectrum --
it is a spectrum --
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要知道，男性也是有性别的。
12:36
you know, men also have gender.
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有时我们会忘了这点。
12:38
We sometimes forget about that.
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（笑声）
12:40
(Laughter)
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有时我们会忘了这点。
12:41
We sometimes forget about that.
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在我早期的职业生涯中，
我其实扮演了一个非常男性化的女性角色，
我其实扮演了一个非常男性化的女性角色，
12:43
And I actually played a very masculine
woman early in my career,
woman early in my career,
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因为那是游戏的规则。
12:46
because those were the rules of the game.
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我通过那种方式取得了些成功，
12:48
And I achieved some success with it,
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但幸运的是，我最终达到了一个位置，
12:50
but fortunately, I got to a place
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可以让我开始欣然接受
自己女性化的一面。
自己女性化的一面。
12:52
where I started embracing
my feminine side as well.
my feminine side as well.
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但我还是得说，那些最杰出的
领导会同时接受这两面，
领导会同时接受这两面，
12:54
But I would still say
that the best leaders embrace both,
that the best leaders embrace both,
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女性化一面和男性化的一面。
12:57
both women and men.
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但我也认为，性别，
12:58
But I see gender, also,
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是一种转变文化价值观最有力的杠杆。
13:00
as one of the most powerful levers
to shift values in culture.
to shift values in culture.
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我之所以对女性领导
这一话题这么充满兴趣，
这一话题这么充满兴趣，
13:04
So the reason I'm so passionate
about women in leadership
about women in leadership
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并相信我们需要平衡
13:07
and believe that balance is needed
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13:10
is because right now, our definition
of success is incredibly masculine.
of success is incredibly masculine.
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是因为现在，我们对
成功的定义还是很男性化。
成功的定义还是很男性化。
13:16
It's about financial profit alone
or economic growth alone,
or economic growth alone,
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认为成功只有关财务利润或经济增长，
但我们都知道除了钱
我们还需要更多别的东西。
我们还需要更多别的东西。
13:20
and we all know that we need
more than money.
more than money.
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我是说，我们需要健康，
13:23
I mean, we need wellness:
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需要大家都能安乐，
13:25
well-being of people,
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如果我们的星球不安乐，
我们是没有未来的。
我们是没有未来的。
13:27
and there is no future
beyond the well-being of our planet.
beyond the well-being of our planet.
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所以我认为性别可能是
一种最有力的杠杆，
一种最有力的杠杆，
13:31
So I think gender may very well be
one of the most powerful levers
one of the most powerful levers
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能帮助我们所有人转变经济和社会系统，
13:35
to help all of us shift
our economic and social systems
our economic and social systems
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让它们变得更友好，令人舒适。
13:38
to be more welcoming.
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关于你的最后一部分问题——
13:40
And the answer to your last part --
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答案有点复杂，
但我想试着给你一个简短的答案。
但我想试着给你一个简短的答案。
13:41
it's so complicated, but let me try
to give you a short one.
to give you a short one.
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13:45
I believe that the way talent
and consumption is shifting
and consumption is shifting
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我相信才能和消耗发生转变的方式
会越来越让企业
13:51
is going to increasingly get companies
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意识到应该在领导力中增加一些差异，
13:54
to look at adding difference
into their leadership,
into their leadership,
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因为单一化并不起作用——
13:58
because sameness is not working --
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HR：差异性是一种强大的力量。
14:00
BF: And difference is a superpower.
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HT：没错，差异是一种强大的力量。
14:02
HT: Difference is a superpower.
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BF：非常感谢。
14:04
BF: Thank you very much.
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海拉，谢谢您，
我真希望我们能交流一整天。
我真希望我们能交流一整天。
14:05
Halla, thank you so much,
I wish we could talk to you all day.
I wish we could talk to you all day.
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（掌声，欢呼声）
14:08
(Applause and cheers)
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HT：谢谢大家。
14:09
HT: Thank you.
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（掌声）
14:10
(Applause)
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Translated by Yizhuo He
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Halla Tómasdóttir - Change catalystIcelandic entrepreneur Halla Tómasdóttir believes that if you’re going to change things, you have to do it from the inside. She infused the world of finance with “feminine values," which helped her survive the financial meltdown in Iceland and nearly made her president.
Why you should listen
Tómasdóttir's philosophy is simple: (1) the challenges we're facing today won't be solved by testosterone alone; (2) the world would be a better, safer, more sustainable place if we could infuse finance, business and politics with more gender balance; and (3) it's easier to change things from the inside.
True to this philosophy, Tómasdóttir co-founded Audur Capital in 2008, the world's first investment firm based on "feminine values." Audur was one of few financial companies in Iceland to survive the crash. Tómasdóttir has since been an active change catalyst, advocating for principle-based leadership and more women around decision-making tables.
In 2016, responding to popular demand (and a viral Facebook campaign), Tómasdóttir ran for president of Iceland. A woman in a man's race. Polls initially put Tómasdóttir as an outsider, predicting 1 percent of the vote. A few weeks later, against all odds, Tómasdóttir came in second supported by 28 percent of Icelanders.
Halla Tómasdóttir | Speaker | TED.com
Bryn Freedman - Editorial director and curator, TED Institute
Bryn Freedman helps those who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way.
Why you should listen
Award-winning TV producer, investigative journalist and author, Bryn Freedman joined TED in 2014 as the editorial director and curator for the TED Institute. In her work with TED, Freedman creates and executes TED conference events for Fortune 500 companies, overseeing all editorial content as well as managing speaker coaches and determining both the topics for each talk and the overall conference theme. In addition to curating these events, she works as an executive speaker coach for professionals who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way.
Freedman is also co-founder of Voices4Freedom, an international organization aimed at eradicating slavery through education and media.
Bryn Freedman | Speaker | TED.com