TED Salon U.S. Air Force
Halla Tómasdóttir and Bryn Freedman: The crisis of leadership -- and a new way forward
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What should modern leadership look like? Entrepreneur and former Icelandic presidential candidate Halla Tómasdóttir thinks global leaders need to change their ways -- or risk becoming irrelevant. In a conversation with curator Bryn Freedman, she shows how anybody can step up and make a difference, even if you don't yet have power. "There's a leader inside every single one of us," she says, "and our most important work in life is to release that leader."
Halla Tómasdóttir - Change catalyst
Icelandic entrepreneur Halla Tómasdóttir believes that if you’re going to change things, you have to do it from the inside. She infused the world of finance with “feminine values," which helped her survive the financial meltdown in Iceland and nearly made her president. Full bioBryn Freedman - Editorial director and curator, TED Institute
Bryn Freedman helps those who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way. Full bio
Icelandic entrepreneur Halla Tómasdóttir believes that if you’re going to change things, you have to do it from the inside. She infused the world of finance with “feminine values," which helped her survive the financial meltdown in Iceland and nearly made her president. Full bioBryn Freedman - Editorial director and curator, TED Institute
Bryn Freedman helps those who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Bryn Freedman: So you keep
talking about leadership
talking about leadership
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as a real crisis of conformity.
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Can you explain to us
what you mean by that?
what you mean by that?
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What do you see as a crisis of conformity?
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Halla Tómasdóttir:
I think it's a crisis of conformity
I think it's a crisis of conformity
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when we continue to do business
and lead in the way we always have,
and lead in the way we always have,
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yet the evidence is overwhelming
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that the world needs us
to change our ways.
to change our ways.
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So let's look a little bit
at that evidence.
at that evidence.
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Science has told us
that we're facing a climate crisis,
that we're facing a climate crisis,
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yet 40 percent of board directors
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don't think climate belongs
in the boardroom.
in the boardroom.
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And we have kids marching
in the streets now,
in the streets now,
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asking us to be accountable
for their future.
for their future.
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We have a crisis of inequality.
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We have Yellow Jackets
not just in the streets of France,
not just in the streets of France,
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but all over the world,
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and yet we continue to see examples
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of businesses and other leaders
fueling that anger.
fueling that anger.
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BF: Do you think
the pitchforks are coming?
the pitchforks are coming?
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HT: I definitely think
this is not sustainable.
this is not sustainable.
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And the reason why it's so difficult
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for us to deal with these complicated
crises that are interrelated
crises that are interrelated
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is that we are at the lowest levels
of trust we've ever been at.
of trust we've ever been at.
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In the UK, three percent of people
trust their government
trust their government
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to solve the Brexit crisis,
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and that was in December.
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I think it's probably gone
down since then.
down since then.
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BF: What do you think
new leadership actually looks like?
new leadership actually looks like?
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HT: We need courageous leaders,
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yet they have to be humble.
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And they have to be guided
by a moral compass,
by a moral compass,
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and the moral compass is the combination
of having a social purpose --
of having a social purpose --
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you can't have your license
to operate anymore
to operate anymore
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without a purpose
that contributes to society,
that contributes to society,
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but what, to me, has been missing
from that dialogue is a set of principles.
from that dialogue is a set of principles.
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We cannot just define why we exist,
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we have to define
how we're going to do business
how we're going to do business
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and how we're going to lead.
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And to us, that has to be
to solve these imminent crises:
to solve these imminent crises:
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the climate crisis,
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the crisis of inequality
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and the crisis of trust.
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So at The B Team,
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we embrace sustainability, equality
and accountability as our principles.
and accountability as our principles.
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BF: Do you think this whole question
of purpose is really window dressing --
of purpose is really window dressing --
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they're saying what they think
people want to hear,
people want to hear,
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but they're actually not making
the fundamental changes
the fundamental changes
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that are necessary?
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HT: A lot of people feel that way,
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and I think there's a growing
momentum behind that.
momentum behind that.
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So I think the world is calling
for responsible leadership now,
for responsible leadership now,
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and any leader who wants
to be around for the 21st century
to be around for the 21st century
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really needs to start thinking
courageously and holistically
courageously and holistically
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how they're going
to be part of the solution
to be part of the solution
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and not window-dress anymore.
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You have to do it for real now.
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BF: Do you see anybody
out there who's doing it
out there who's doing it
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in a way that you think
is actually effective
is actually effective
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and has a real, long-term impact?
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HT: Fortunately, we have
some great leaders out there.
some great leaders out there.
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And just to give one example,
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Emmanuel Faber, who's one of the newest
members of The B Team,
members of The B Team,
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he's the CEO of Danone,
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the world's largest yogurt-maker
and major food company --
and major food company --
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a real global company.
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He's so committed to sustainability
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that he's not only changing the ways
of his own business,
of his own business,
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but his entire supply chain.
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He's so committed to equality
that when he took on as CEO
that when he took on as CEO
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and he said gender balance matters,
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he created a gender-balanced
executive team
executive team
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and gave men and women
equal maternity and paternity leave.
equal maternity and paternity leave.
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He's so committed to accountability
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that he turned his US operations
into a B Corporation.
into a B Corporation.
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Now many of you may not know what that is,
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but that's a company
that holds itself responsible
that holds itself responsible
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for not just profit but its impact
on people and the planet,
on people and the planet,
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and transparently reports
on their performance on all of that.
on their performance on all of that.
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It's the largest B Corp in the world.
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So to me, that's holistic,
courageous leadership,
courageous leadership,
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and it's really the vision
we all need to hold.
we all need to hold.
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BF: Is this "Back to the Future"?
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I mean, I wonder,
when I think about companies --
when I think about companies --
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Anheuser-Busch comes to mind in America --
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a 100-year-old company
that invested in its community,
that invested in its community,
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that gave a living wage
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before it ended up, you know,
losing and getting sold.
losing and getting sold.
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Are we really looking now for companies
that are global and community citizens,
that are global and community citizens,
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or is that something that is not
even useful anymore?
even useful anymore?
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04:09
HT: Well, you can do this for the reason
that it's risky, actually,
that it's risky, actually,
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to continue without doing
the right thing now.
the right thing now.
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You can't attract the right talent,
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you can't attract customers
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and increasingly,
you won't be able to attract capital.
you won't be able to attract capital.
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You might do it for risk reasons,
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you might do it for business
opportunity reasons,
opportunity reasons,
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because this is where the growth is,
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which is why many leaders
are doing the right thing.
are doing the right thing.
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But at the end of the day,
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we need to ask ourselves:
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"Who are we holding
ourselves accountable for?"
ourselves accountable for?"
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And if that isn't the next generation,
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I don't know who.
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So I want to just make very clear,
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because we tend to think about leadership
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as only those who sit
in positions of power.
in positions of power.
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To me, leadership is not at all like that.
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There's a leader inside
every single one of us,
every single one of us,
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and our most important work in life
is to release that leader.
is to release that leader.
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And I think one of the greatest
global examples we have
global examples we have
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of someone who didn't --
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no one gave her power --
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is the 16-year-old girl
called Greta Thunberg.
called Greta Thunberg.
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She's from Sweden,
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and a few years ago, she really became --
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she has Asperger's,
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and she became passionate
about our climate crisis --
about our climate crisis --
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learned everything about it.
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And faced with the evidence,
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she just felt so disappointed
in her leadership
in her leadership
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that she started striking
in front of the Swedish parliament.
in front of the Swedish parliament.
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And now she has started a global movement,
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and hundreds and thousands
of school kids are out in the streets
of school kids are out in the streets
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asking us to hold ourselves
accountable for their future.
accountable for their future.
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No one gave her that authority,
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and she now speaks to the leaders
of the world, heads of state,
of the world, heads of state,
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and really is impacting the world.
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So I really think that when we think
about leadership today,
about leadership today,
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it can't be defined
to those in positions of power
to those in positions of power
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though they have disproportionately
greater responsibility.
greater responsibility.
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But all of us need to think about,
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"What am I doing?"
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"How am I contributing?"
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And we need to release that leader inside
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and actually start making
the positive impact
the positive impact
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this world is calling for right now.
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BF: But we have such
hierarchical leadership.
hierarchical leadership.
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I mean, I understand what you're saying --
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it's nice to release the leader inside --
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but in these corporations,
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the truth is, it's extremely hierarchical.
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What can companies do
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to create less vertical
and more horizontal relationships?
and more horizontal relationships?
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HT: Well, I'm a big believer
and I've long been passionate
and I've long been passionate
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about closing the gender gap,
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and I really believe gender-balanced
leadership is the way to go
leadership is the way to go
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in order to embrace a leadership style
that has been shown to be more powerful,
that has been shown to be more powerful,
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and that's when both men and women embrace
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both masculine and feminine values.
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It actually is proven in research
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that that's the most
effective leadership style.
effective leadership style.
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But I'm increasingly now thinking
about how we close the generational gap,
about how we close the generational gap,
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because look at these young children
in the streets around the world --
in the streets around the world --
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they're asking us to lead.
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Kofi Annan used to say,
"You're never too young to lead."
"You're never too young to lead."
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And then he would add,
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"Or too old to learn."
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And I think we have now entered this era
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where we need the wisdom
of those with experience,
of those with experience,
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but we need the digital natives
of the young generation
of the young generation
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to co-mentor or to mentor us
just as much as we can help
just as much as we can help
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with wisdom from the older people.
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So it's a new reality,
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and these old, sort of hierarchical
ways to think about things,
ways to think about things,
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they're increasingly coming
under pressure in this reality.
under pressure in this reality.
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BF: And you've actually called
that the hubris syndrome.
that the hubris syndrome.
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Can you talk about that?
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HT: Well, yes, I think hubris
is our cancer in leadership.
is our cancer in leadership.
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That's when leaders
think they know it all,
think they know it all,
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can do it all, have all the answers
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and don't think they need
to surround themselves
to surround themselves
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with people who will make them better,
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which to me would, in some cases,
be more women and younger people
be more women and younger people
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and people who are diverse
and have different opinions in general.
and have different opinions in general.
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Hubris syndrome is so present
in leadership still,
in leadership still,
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and we know many examples of them,
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I don't need to name them.
And the problem with that --
And the problem with that --
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(Laughter)
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Yeah, we know them -- all over the world,
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not just in this country.
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But that kind of leadership
doesn't unleash leaders in others.
doesn't unleash leaders in others.
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No one person,
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or no one sector even has the solutions
we now need to come up with --
we now need to come up with --
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the creativity and collaboration we need.
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The bold and the brave leadership
we need to come up with solutions
we need to come up with solutions
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that cross government, private sector,
civil society, young people, older people,
civil society, young people, older people,
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people of all different backgrounds
coming together is the way
coming together is the way
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to solve the issues
that are in front of us.
that are in front of us.
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BF: Do you see that kind of leadership
coming from the bottom-up
coming from the bottom-up
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or the top-down,
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or do you think a crisis
is going to force us
is going to force us
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into a reexamination of all of this?
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HT: Well, as someone who lived through
the most infamous financial meltdown
the most infamous financial meltdown
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in my home country, Iceland,
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I hope we don't need another one
to learn or to wake up.
to learn or to wake up.
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But I do see that we can't choose
one or the other.
one or the other.
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We do have to transform the way we lead --
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from the top, the boardroom, the CEOs --
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we really do have to transform that,
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but increasingly, we will transform that,
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because we have these social
movements coming from the bottom
movements coming from the bottom
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and throughout society.
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And the solutions exist.
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The only thing that's missing is will.
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So if we just all find a way to embrace
a moral compass of our own
a moral compass of our own
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to figure out why we exist
and how we're going to lead,
and how we're going to lead,
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and if we embrace courage
and humility in equal amounts,
and humility in equal amounts,
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each one of us can be part
of this 10-year period
of this 10-year period
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where we can dramatically transform
the world we live in,
the world we live in,
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and make it just,
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and make it about humanity
and not just the financial markets.
and not just the financial markets.
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BF: Well, we have a lot of people here
who I bet have questions for you,
who I bet have questions for you,
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and we have a few minutes for questions,
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so is there anybody that would like
to ask Halla a question?
to ask Halla a question?
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Audience: Hello, my name is Cheryl.
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I'm an aspiring leader,
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and I have a question about how you lead
when you have no influence.
when you have no influence.
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If I'm just an analyst,
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and I want to speak to senior management
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about a change that I feel
will affect the whole company,
will affect the whole company,
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how do I go about changing their minds
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when they feel as if they've had
relationships that are set,
relationships that are set,
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that their way of business is set?
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How do you change minds
when you have no influence?
when you have no influence?
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HT: Well, thank you very much
for that fantastic question.
for that fantastic question.
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So sometimes people
at the top won't listen,
at the top won't listen,
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but it's interesting that with the low
trust we have in society right now,
trust we have in society right now,
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the greatest trust we have
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is actually between the employee
and the employer,
and the employer,
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according to recent research.
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So I think that relationship
may be the most powerful way
may be the most powerful way
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to actually transform
the way we do things.
the way we do things.
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So I would start by trying to build
a coalition for your good idea.
a coalition for your good idea.
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And I don't know a single leader today
who will not listen to a concern
who will not listen to a concern
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that many of their employees hold.
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I'll give you an example
from another B Team leader,
from another B Team leader,
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Marc Benioff, the CEO of Salesforce.
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He's really been outspoken
on homelessness in San Francisco,
on homelessness in San Francisco,
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on LGBTQI rights,
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and all of the things
that he's been standing up for,
that he's been standing up for,
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he does because his employees
care about them.
care about them.
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So don't ever think you don't have power
if you don't sit in a position of power.
if you don't sit in a position of power.
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Find the way to go convince him ...
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or her.
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And Marc, for example, was convinced
to close the gender pay gap by two women
to close the gender pay gap by two women
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who worked inside of his organization,
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who told him, "We have a gender pay gap."
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He didn't believe it;
he said, "Bring me the data."
he said, "Bring me the data."
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They did, and he was smart enough to know
he needed to do something about it,
he needed to do something about it,
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and was one the first tech leaders
to step up and do so voluntarily.
to step up and do so voluntarily.
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So don't ever think
that you don't have power,
that you don't have power,
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even if you don't sit
in a position of power,
in a position of power,
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but find other people to support you
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and make the case.
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BF: Thank you.
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Anybody else? Any other questions?
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Audience: Hi, I'm overwhelmed
by fascination
by fascination
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with everything you're saying,
so thank you.
so thank you.
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I just wanted to ask how, like,
diversity in opinion and thought
diversity in opinion and thought
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and also background
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has impacted your leadership ability.
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And what do you think is the barricade
that is limiting the overflow of diversity
that is limiting the overflow of diversity
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in all business settings,
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and what do you think can impact
the change in that setting
the change in that setting
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but also to disrupt the overflow
of generations of people staying in place?
of generations of people staying in place?
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And what do you think is the next step
to breaking several glass ceilings?
to breaking several glass ceilings?
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BF: We're going to do an entire Salon
just on that question.
just on that question.
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(Laughter)
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HT: I think Bryn said it well,
but let me try and touch on it.
but let me try and touch on it.
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So the way I see gender,
it is a spectrum --
it is a spectrum --
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you know, men also have gender.
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We sometimes forget about that.
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(Laughter)
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We sometimes forget about that.
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And I actually played a very masculine
woman early in my career,
woman early in my career,
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because those were the rules of the game.
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And I achieved some success with it,
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but fortunately, I got to a place
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where I started embracing
my feminine side as well.
my feminine side as well.
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But I would still say
that the best leaders embrace both,
that the best leaders embrace both,
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both women and men.
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But I see gender, also,
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as one of the most powerful levers
to shift values in culture.
to shift values in culture.
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So the reason I'm so passionate
about women in leadership
about women in leadership
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and believe that balance is needed
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is because right now, our definition
of success is incredibly masculine.
of success is incredibly masculine.
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It's about financial profit alone
or economic growth alone,
or economic growth alone,
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and we all know that we need
more than money.
more than money.
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I mean, we need wellness:
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well-being of people,
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and there is no future
beyond the well-being of our planet.
beyond the well-being of our planet.
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So I think gender may very well be
one of the most powerful levers
one of the most powerful levers
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to help all of us shift
our economic and social systems
our economic and social systems
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to be more welcoming.
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And the answer to your last part --
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it's so complicated, but let me try
to give you a short one.
to give you a short one.
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I believe that the way talent
and consumption is shifting
and consumption is shifting
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is going to increasingly get companies
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to look at adding difference
into their leadership,
into their leadership,
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because sameness is not working --
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BF: And difference is a superpower.
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HT: Difference is a superpower.
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BF: Thank you very much.
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Halla, thank you so much,
I wish we could talk to you all day.
I wish we could talk to you all day.
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(Applause and cheers)
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HT: Thank you.
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(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Halla Tómasdóttir - Change catalystIcelandic entrepreneur Halla Tómasdóttir believes that if you’re going to change things, you have to do it from the inside. She infused the world of finance with “feminine values," which helped her survive the financial meltdown in Iceland and nearly made her president.
Why you should listen
Tómasdóttir's philosophy is simple: (1) the challenges we're facing today won't be solved by testosterone alone; (2) the world would be a better, safer, more sustainable place if we could infuse finance, business and politics with more gender balance; and (3) it's easier to change things from the inside.
True to this philosophy, Tómasdóttir co-founded Audur Capital in 2008, the world's first investment firm based on "feminine values." Audur was one of few financial companies in Iceland to survive the crash. Tómasdóttir has since been an active change catalyst, advocating for principle-based leadership and more women around decision-making tables.
In 2016, responding to popular demand (and a viral Facebook campaign), Tómasdóttir ran for president of Iceland. A woman in a man's race. Polls initially put Tómasdóttir as an outsider, predicting 1 percent of the vote. A few weeks later, against all odds, Tómasdóttir came in second supported by 28 percent of Icelanders.
Halla Tómasdóttir | Speaker | TED.com
Bryn Freedman - Editorial director and curator, TED Institute
Bryn Freedman helps those who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way.
Why you should listen
Award-winning TV producer, investigative journalist and author, Bryn Freedman joined TED in 2014 as the editorial director and curator for the TED Institute. In her work with TED, Freedman creates and executes TED conference events for Fortune 500 companies, overseeing all editorial content as well as managing speaker coaches and determining both the topics for each talk and the overall conference theme. In addition to curating these events, she works as an executive speaker coach for professionals who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way.
Freedman is also co-founder of Voices4Freedom, an international organization aimed at eradicating slavery through education and media.
Bryn Freedman | Speaker | TED.com