ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sam Harris - Neuroscientist, philosopher
Sam Harris's work focuses on how our growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.

Why you should listen

Sam Harris is the author of five New York Times bestsellers. His books include The End of FaithLetter to a Christian Nation, The Moral Landscape, Free Will, Lying, Waking Up and Islam and the Future of Tolerance (with Maajid Nawaz). The End of Faith won the 2005 PEN Award for Nonfiction. Harris's writing and public lectures cover a wide range of topics -- neuroscience, moral philosophy, religion, spirituality, violence, human reasoning -- but generally focus on how a growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.

Harris's work has been published in more than 20 languages and has been discussed in the New York Times, Time, Scientific American, Nature, Newsweek, Rolling Stone and many other journals. He has written for the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, The Economist, The Times (London), the Boston Globe, The Atlantic, The Annals of Neurology and elsewhere. Harris also regularly hosts a popular podcast.

Harris received a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA.

More profile about the speaker
Sam Harris | Speaker | TED.com
TED2010

Sam Harris: Science can answer moral questions

Sam Harris:科学可以回答道德问题

Filmed:
6,257,604 views

几个世纪来,科学被排拒在善恶对错的问题以外。 Sam Harris 提出科学不但可以,更应当成为道德问题的准则,为人类设立新人道价值,带领我们走向真正的幸福生活。
- Neuroscientist, philosopher
Sam Harris's work focuses on how our growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:15
I'm going to speak说话 today今天 about the relationship关系
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今日我要讨论科学和人类价值观
00:18
between之间 science科学 and human人的 values.
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之间的关系
00:22
Now, it's generally通常 understood了解 that
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我们一般认为
00:24
questions问题 of morality道德 --
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有关道德问题
00:26
questions问题 of good and evil邪恶 and right and wrong错误 --
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善恶对错的概念
00:28
are questions问题 about which哪一个 science科学 officially正式 has no opinion意见.
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是科学所不能解决和参与讨论的
00:31
It's thought that science科学 can help us
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人们认为科学可以帮助我们
00:34
get what we value,
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得到我们所想要的
00:36
but it can never tell us what we ought应该 to value.
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却永远无法告诉我们什么是重要的
00:39
And, consequently所以, most people -- I think most people
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于是大部分的人,甚至今日坐在这里的各位
00:41
probably大概 here -- think that science科学 will never answer回答
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认为科学永远无法回答
00:44
the most important重要 questions问题 in human人的 life:
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人类生命中的重要问题
00:47
questions问题 like, "What is worth价值 living活的 for?"
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像是”我们为了什么活着?“
00:49
"What is worth价值 dying垂死 for?"
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”我们应该为什么牺牲?“
00:51
"What constitutes构成 a good life?"
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”什么样的生活,是一个幸福的生活?“
00:53
So, I'm going to argue争论
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我想告诉大家
00:55
that this is an illusion错觉 -- that the separation分割 between之间
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把科学和人类价值观做分隔
00:57
science科学 and human人的 values is an illusion错觉 --
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是一种人为假象
00:59
and actually其实 quite相当 a dangerous危险 one
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是一个非常危险的假象
01:02
at this point in human人的 history历史.
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尤其是在我们的今日社会
01:04
Now, it's often经常 said that science科学
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人们常说科学
01:06
cannot不能 give us a foundation基础 for morality道德 and human人的 values,
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不能作为道德和价值观的基础
01:09
because science科学 deals交易 with facts事实,
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因为科学讲求实证
01:12
and facts事实 and values seem似乎 to belong属于 to different不同 spheres.
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而事实和价值似乎是两种不同层次的事
01:16
It's often经常 thought that there's no description描述
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人们认为,就算把世界的模样
01:19
of the way the world世界 is
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描绘出来
01:21
that can tell us how the world世界 ought应该 to be.
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也不能带我们走到乌托邦
01:25
But I think this is quite相当 clearly明确地 untrue不确实.
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但我认为这很明显是错误的
01:27
Values are a certain某些 kind of fact事实.
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价值自然是一种实证
01:31
They are facts事实 about the well-being福利 of conscious意识 creatures生物.
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是人类如何可以获得幸福生活的实证
01:35
Why is it that we don't have ethical合乎道德的 obligations义务 toward rocks岩石?
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为什么我们对石头没有任何道德要求?
01:39
Why don't we feel compassion同情 for rocks岩石?
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为什么我们对石头没有仁爱之情?
01:42
It's because we don't think rocks岩石 can suffer遭受. And if we're more
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因为我们不认为石头会受折磨
01:44
concerned关心 about our fellow同伴 primates灵长类动物
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如果和昆虫做比较
01:46
than we are about insects昆虫, as indeed确实 we are,
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我们比较关心我们自己的物种
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it's because we think they're exposed裸露 to a greater更大 range范围
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那是因为我们认为我们比昆虫
01:51
of potential潜在 happiness幸福 and suffering痛苦.
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能感受到更大程度的快乐或痛苦
01:54
Now, the crucial关键 thing to notice注意 here
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其中的意义是
01:57
is that this is a factual事实 claim要求:
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这个说法是有实证的
01:59
This is something that we could be right or wrong错误 about. And if we
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这中间是有对错的
02:01
have misconstrued误解 the relationship关系 between之间 biological生物 complexity复杂
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如果我们在生物复杂性和知觉体验的关系上
02:04
and the possibilities可能性 of experience经验
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做出了错误的推估
02:07
well then we could be wrong错误 about the inner lives生活 of insects昆虫.
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那代表我们有可能错估了昆虫的内心生活
02:10
And there's no notion概念,
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但是我发觉
02:14
no version of human人的 morality道德
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从没有一种道德
02:16
and human人的 values that I've ever come across横过
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和价值观
02:19
that is not at some point reducible还原
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是和人类的感知体验
02:21
to a concern关心 about conscious意识 experience经验
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和尝试改变这感知体验的可能性
02:24
and its possible可能 changes变化.
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无关的
02:26
Even if you get your values from religion宗教,
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就算你的价值观来自宗教
02:29
even if you think that good and evil邪恶 ultimately最终
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就算你认为善恶
02:31
relate涉及 to conditions条件 after death死亡 --
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和死后的结果有关联
02:33
either to an eternity永恒 of happiness幸福 with God
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永远和神在快乐的国度里逍遥
02:36
or an eternity永恒 of suffering痛苦 in hell地狱 --
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或是永远在地狱之火中燃烧
02:38
you are still concerned关心 about consciousness意识 and its changes变化.
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这仍然两种不同的感知体验有关
02:42
And to say that such这样 changes变化 can persist坚持 after death死亡
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认为这些体验会一直持续到死后的世界
02:45
is itself本身 a factual事实 claim要求,
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也是在追求一种实证
02:47
which哪一个, of course课程, may可能 or may可能 not be true真正.
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虽然谁也不知道死后的世界会如何
02:50
Now, to speak说话 about the conditions条件 of well-being福利
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谈到幸福生活的基础
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in this life, for human人的 beings众生,
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身为人类,在此生
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we know that there is a continuum连续 of such这样 facts事实.
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我们知道有些事实一直存在
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We know that it's possible可能 to live生活 in a failed失败 state,
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我们知道你有可能会住在一个失序的国家
03:01
where everything that can go wrong错误 does go wrong错误 --
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所有东西都有可能出错
03:03
where mothers母亲 cannot不能 feed饲料 their children孩子,
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母亲无法喂养她们的孩子
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where strangers陌生人 cannot不能 find the basis基础 for peaceful平静的 collaboration合作,
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人们找不到一个能保障和平的共识
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where people are murdered谋杀 indiscriminately.
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人们被不分青红地谋杀
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And we know that it's possible可能 to move移动 along沿 this continuum连续
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我们知道我们可以解决这些持续已久的问题
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towards something quite相当 a bit more idyllic田园,
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走向一个较为理想的状况
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to a place地点 where a conference会议 like this is even conceivable可以想象.
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像我们现在这样,齐聚一堂,和平讨论
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And we know -- we know --
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我们知道,清楚知道
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that there are right and wrong错误 answers答案
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想要达到这样的境界
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to how to move移动 in this space空间.
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有对的,也有错误的方法
03:30
Would adding加入 cholera霍乱 to the water be a good idea理念?
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在水中加入霍乱病毒是对的吗?
03:36
Probably大概 not.
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大概不是
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Would it be a good idea理念 for everyone大家 to believe in the evil邪恶 eye,
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每个人都相信邪恶之眼的魔力
03:41
so that when bad things happened发生 to them
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于是当某些不幸事件发生
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they immediately立即 blame their neighbors邻居? Probably大概 not.
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他们马上就开始怪罪他们的邻舍?大概也不是
03:47
There are truths真理 to be known已知
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我们应该去理解
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about how human人的 communities社区 flourish繁荣,
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人类社群迈向繁荣的方法
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whether是否 or not we understand理解 these truths真理.
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无论我们现在能不能理解
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And morality道德 relates涉及 to these truths真理.
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或把这些事实和道德做联结
03:57
So, in talking about values we are talking about facts事实.
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当我们讨论价值,我们就是在讨论事实
04:01
Now, of course课程 our situation情况 in the world世界 can be understood了解 at many许多 levels水平 --
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世界的现况可以用很多不同层次来看
04:04
from the level水平 of the genome基因组
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从染色体的层次
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on up to the level水平 of economic经济 systems系统
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一直到经济体系
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and political政治 arrangements安排.
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和政治协议的层次
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But if we're going to talk about human人的 well-being福利
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但如果我们回去思考人类幸福的议题
04:12
we are, of necessity必要性, talking about the human人的 brain.
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我们必须谈到人类的大脑
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Because we know that our experience经验 of the world世界 and of ourselves我们自己 within it
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因为我们知道我们对世界的看法、我们的体验和感知
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is realized实现 in the brain --
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都是由大脑建构的
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whatever随你 happens发生 after death死亡.
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无论死后会怎样
04:23
Even if the suicide自杀 bomber轰炸机 does get 72 virgins处女 in the afterlife来世,
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就算背着炸弹自杀死后能得到72个处女
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in this life, his personality个性 --
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在此生,他的人格
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his rather unfortunate不幸的 personality个性 --
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这令人遗憾的人格
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is the product产品 of his brain.
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也是由他的大脑所产出
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So the contributions捐款 of culture文化 --
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于是,文化的贡献是 -
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if culture文化 changes变化 us, as indeed确实 it does,
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是因为文化会改变我们的想法
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it changes变化 us by changing改变 our brains大脑.
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也就是改变我们大脑的思考模式
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And so therefore因此 whatever随你 cultural文化 variation变异 there is
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于是不管有多少不同文化
04:46
in how human人的 beings众生 flourish繁荣
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对人类的幸福有多少不同想法
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can, at least最小 in principle原理, be understood了解
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都可以原则性地
04:50
in the context上下文 of a maturing成熟 science科学 of the mind心神 --
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以成熟的闹内科学作为理解的办法
04:53
neuroscience神经科学, psychology心理学, etc等等.
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神经科学、心理学等等
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So, what I'm arguing争论 is that
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我想说的是
04:58
value's值的 reduced减少 to facts事实 --
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价值观可以以事实
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to facts事实 about the conscious意识 experience经验
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有关人类感知体验的事实
05:02
of conscious意识 beings众生.
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作为准则
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And we can therefore因此 visualize想象 a space空间
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我们才有可能想象在某个情况下
05:08
of possible可能 changes变化 in the experience经验 of these beings众生.
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来改变这些人的体验
05:11
And I think of this as kind of a moral道德 landscape景观,
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这就像一片道德风景
05:13
with peaks and valleys山谷 that correspond对应
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有不同的山巅和峡谷
05:15
to differences分歧 in the well-being福利 of conscious意识 creatures生物,
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像是人类对于幸福生活的不同感知
05:18
both personal个人 and collective集体.
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无论是个人或群体的
05:20
And one thing to notice注意 is that perhaps也许
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我们该注意的是
05:22
there are states状态 of human人的 well-being福利
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或许有个人类幸福的所在
05:24
that we rarely很少 access访问, that few少数 people access访问.
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是我们从来没有去过的,很少人能达到的体验
05:27
And these await等待 our discovery发现.
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正在等待我们去发掘
05:29
Perhaps也许 some of these states状态 can be appropriately适当 called
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或许这些体验就是我们所说的
05:31
mystical神秘 or spiritual精神.
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神秘或灵性的体验
05:33
Perhaps也许 there are other states状态 that we can't access访问
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或许有些是我们根本无法体验的
05:35
because of how our minds头脑 are structured结构化的
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因为我们的大脑有自己的回路
05:38
but other minds头脑 possibly或者 could access访问 them.
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但其它人却有可能可以到达
05:42
Now, let me be clear明确 about what I'm not saying. I'm not saying
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我必须澄清,我并不是说
05:44
that science科学 is guaranteed保证 to map地图 this space空间,
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科学可以完全地为我们画出这份幸福地图
05:49
or that we will have scientific科学 answers答案 to every一切
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或是科学可以回答所有的
05:51
conceivable可以想象 moral道德 question.
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道德争议
05:53
I don't think, for instance, that you will one day consult请教
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举例来说,我并不认为
05:55
a supercomputer超级计算机 to learn学习 whether是否 you should have a second第二 child儿童,
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某天我们会和电脑商量我们是不是该生第二胎
05:59
or whether是否 we should bomb炸弹 Iran's伊朗 nuclear facilities设备,
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或是我们是不是应该轰炸伊朗的核子设备
06:03
or whether是否 you can deduct扣除 the full充分 cost成本 of TEDTED as a business商业 expense费用.
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或是参加TED演讲的经费是不是可以向公司报账
06:07
(Laughter笑声)
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(大笑)
06:09
But if questions问题 affect影响 human人的 well-being福利
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但如果这个问题是影响到人身幸福的
06:11
then they do have answers答案, whether是否 or not we can find them.
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他们是有答案的,无论我们找不着得到
06:14
And just admitting承认 this --
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承认吧
06:16
just admitting承认 that there are right and wrong错误 answers答案
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当我们尝试解决人类幸福的问题
06:18
to the question of how humans人类 flourish繁荣 --
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是可能会有错误答案的
06:20
will change更改 the way we talk about morality道德,
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承认这个事实能改变我们讨论道德的方法
06:22
and will change更改 our expectations期望
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也会改变我们在合作共创未来时
06:24
of human人的 cooperation合作 in the future未来.
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所期待的结果
06:28
For instance, there are 21 states状态 in our country国家
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举例来说,在美国还有21个州
06:32
where corporal下士 punishment惩罚 in the classroom课堂 is legal法律,
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在课堂上进行体罚是合法的
06:35
where it is legal法律 for a teacher老师 to beat击败 a child儿童 with a wooden board, hard,
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老师可以合法的用木板
06:41
and raising提高 large bruises瘀伤 and blisters水泡 and even breaking破坏 the skin皮肤.
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把孩子打得瘀伤、起水泡、甚至破皮
06:45
And hundreds数以百计 of thousands数千 of children孩子, incidentally顺便,
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每年有千百个孩子
06:47
are subjected to this every一切 year.
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都在遭受这样的待遇
06:49
The locations地点 of these enlightened开明 districts, I think, will fail失败 to surprise you.
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而且我认为,你会很吃惊,这都是些什么省份
06:54
We're not talking about Connecticut康涅狄格.
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不是康涅狄格州
06:57
And the rationale合理 for this behavior行为 is explicitly明确地 religious宗教.
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宗教往往是这些做法背后的理由
07:01
The creator创造者 of the universe宇宙 himself他自己
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创造宇宙的造物主说
07:03
has told us not to spare备用 the rod竿,
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告诉我们不要”不忍用仗“
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lest免得 we spoil溺爱 the child儿童 --
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不然会宠坏孩子
07:07
this is in Proverbs箴言 13 and 20, and I believe, 23.
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这是《旧约箴言》第13章20,和23节
07:12
But we can ask the obvious明显 question:
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我们可以问一个简单的问题
07:14
Is it a good idea理念, generally通常 speaking请讲,
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以常理判断
07:18
to subject学科 children孩子 to pain疼痛
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让孩子经历这样的痛苦
07:21
and violence暴力 and public上市 humiliation屈辱
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暴力和在众人面前被羞辱
07:24
as a way of encouraging鼓舞人心的 healthy健康 emotional情绪化 development发展
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会带来健康的情绪发展
07:26
and good behavior行为?
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和良好行为模式吗?
07:28
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
07:29
Is there any doubt怀疑
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我们之中有人怀疑
07:33
that this question has an answer回答,
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这个问题不但有解答
07:35
and that it matters事项?
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而且对我们来说很重要?
07:38
Now, many许多 of you might威力 worry担心
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或许在你们之中,有许多人会担心
07:40
that the notion概念 of well-being福利 is truly undefined未定义,
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这所谓的幸福该如何界定
07:43
and seemingly似乎 perpetually open打开 to be re-construed重新解释.
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这似乎没有一定的标准
07:46
And so, how therefore因此 can there be an
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而且,怎么可能有一种完全客观的
07:48
objective目的 notion概念 of well-being福利?
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”人身幸福“的标准存在呢?
07:51
Well, consider考虑 by analogy比喻, the concept概念 of physical物理 health健康.
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如果是这样,难道因为对身体健康的概念
07:54
The concept概念 of physical物理 health健康 is undefined未定义.
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没有一个真正的定论
07:57
As we just heard听说 from Michael迈克尔 Specter幽灵, it has changed over the years年份.
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如同 Michael Specter 适才说道,这些概念也会改变
08:00
When this statue雕像 was carved
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在这个雕像产生的年代
08:02
the average平均 life expectancy期待 was probably大概 30.
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人类的平均寿命是30
08:05
It's now around 80 in the developed发达 world世界.
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现在已发展国家的平均寿命是80
08:08
There may可能 come a time when we meddle插手 with our genomes基因组
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也许有一天,因为我们对基因的研究
08:11
in such这样 a way that not being存在 able能够 to run a marathon马拉松
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200岁不能跑马拉松
08:14
at age年龄 200 will be considered考虑 a profound深刻 disability失能.
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是一种残疾
08:18
People will send发送 you donations捐款 when you're in that condition条件.
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如果你有这种状况,人们会捐钱给你
08:21
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
08:23
Notice注意 that the fact事实 that the concept概念 of health健康
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我们知道健康的观念会改变
08:27
is open打开, genuinely真正的 open打开 for revision调整,
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随时都可以重新思考
08:30
does not make it vacuous空虚的.
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这不代表这些讨论是毫无意义的
08:32
The distinction分别 between之间 a healthy健康 person
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一个健康的人和一个死人
08:35
and a dead one
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之间的差别
08:37
is about as clear明确 and consequential后果 as any we make in science科学.
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在科学或理论里是一样的
08:43
Another另一个 thing to notice注意 is there may可能 be many许多 peaks on the moral道德 landscape景观:
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另外一个该注意的事情是道德地图上虽然有很多山巅
08:46
There may可能 be equivalent当量 ways方法 to thrive兴旺;
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是有可能可以一起努力
08:49
there may可能 be equivalent当量 ways方法 to organize组织 a human人的 society社会
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一起找出一个管理人类社会的方法
08:51
so as to maximize最大化 human人的 flourishing芊芊.
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一起找出最大的幸福
08:53
Now, why wouldn't不会 this
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为什么我们不能将这个
08:55
undermine破坏 an objective目的 morality道德?
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当作客观道德的基础?
08:59
Well think of how we talk about food餐饮:
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想象我们讨论食物的方式
09:02
I would never be tempted动心 to argue争论 to you
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我永远不会和你争辩
09:05
that there must必须 be one right food餐饮 to eat.
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人类应该有吃的自由
09:07
There is clearly明确地 a range范围 of materials物料
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一个健康的饮食方式中
09:09
that constitute构成 healthy健康 food餐饮.
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有许多不同食物
09:11
But there's nevertheless虽然 a clear明确 distinction分别
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但从没有人会把食物和毒物
09:13
between之间 food餐饮 and poison.
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搞错
09:15
The fact事实 that there are many许多 right answers答案
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当我们问”什么是食物?“的时候
09:18
to the question, "What is food餐饮?"
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有许多正确答案
09:20
does not tempt勾引 us
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并不会阻止我们
09:23
to say that there are no truths真理 to be known已知 about human人的 nutrition营养.
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去研究营养学,找出更多事实
09:28
Many许多 people worry担心
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许多人担心
09:30
that a universal普遍 morality道德 would require要求
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普世道德必须有一种
09:33
moral道德 precepts戒律 that admit承认 of no exceptions例外.
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严厉的基本教义,不允许例外
09:36
So, for instance, if it's really wrong错误 to lie谎言,
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比如说,说谎是错误的
09:38
it must必须 always be wrong错误 to lie谎言,
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说谎永远是错误的
09:40
and if you can find an exception例外,
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如果你能找到例外的话
09:42
well then there's no such这样 thing as moral道德 truth真相.
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这就不是真正的道德
09:45
Why would we think this?
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为什么我们会这样想
09:47
Consider考虑, by analogy比喻, the game游戏 of chess.
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让我们以国际象棋为例
09:50
Now, if you're going to play good chess,
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如果你想玩一盘漂亮的国际象棋
09:52
a principle原理 like, "Don't lose失去 your Queen女王,"
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”别失去你的皇后“
09:54
is very good to follow跟随.
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是一个很好的原则
09:56
But it clearly明确地 admits承认 some exceptions例外.
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但它也有例外
09:58
There are moments瞬间 when losing失去 your Queen女王 is a brilliant辉煌 thing to do.
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在某些时候牺牲皇后是一种很漂亮的打法
10:01
There are moments瞬间 when it is the only good thing you can do.
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在某些必要时刻,那是你唯一能做的
10:05
And yet然而, chess is a domain of perfect完善 objectivity客观性.
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但国际象棋是一个绝对客观的游戏
10:09
The fact事实 that there are exceptions例外 here does not
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就算在棋局中允许例外
10:11
change更改 that at all.
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也不会改变这个事实
10:14
Now, this brings带来 us to the sorts排序 of moves移动
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在这个道德的场域里
10:17
that people are apt易于 to make in the moral道德 sphere领域.
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有些事是我们应该做的
10:20
Consider考虑 the great problem问题 of women's女士的 bodies身体:
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想想女性身体政治
10:25
What to do about them?
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我们该怎么做?
10:27
Well this is one thing you can do about them:
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有个方法是
10:29
You can cover them up.
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你可以把它们盖起来
10:31
Now, it is the position位置, generally通常 speaking请讲, of our intellectual知识分子 community社区
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普遍来说,我们的学术界是这样想的
10:33
that while we may可能 not like this,
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虽然我们不喜欢这样
10:37
we might威力 think of this as "wrong错误"
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我们觉得这样是错误的
10:39
in Boston波士顿 or Palo帕洛阿尔托 Alto奥拓,
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在波士顿或帕羅奧多
10:41
who are we to say
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但我们怎么能说
10:43
that the proud骄傲 denizens娇客 of an ancient culture文化
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这些古老文化的骄傲后裔
10:46
are wrong错误 to force their wives妻子 and daughters女儿
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不应该强迫它们的妻子和女儿
10:49
to live生活 in cloth bags包装袋?
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住在衣袋里?
10:51
And who are we to say, even, that they're wrong错误
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我们怎么能说,他们是错误的
10:53
to beat击败 them with lengths长度 of steel cable电缆,
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当他们用钢索痛打她们
10:55
or throw battery电池 acid in their faces面孔
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或是把强酸泼到她们脸上
10:57
if they decline下降 the privilege特权 of being存在 smothered窒息 in this way?
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如果她们拒绝被这样对待?
11:01
Well, who are we not to say this?
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我们凭什么可以这样说呢?
11:04
Who are we to pretend假装
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我们怎么可以装作
11:06
that we know so little about human人的 well-being福利
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我们完全不了解人类的幸福
11:10
that we have to be non-judgmental非评判 about a practice实践 like this?
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或是我们应该对此类行为保持中立?
11:14
I'm not talking about voluntary自主性 wearing穿着 of a veil面纱 --
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我不是在说那些自发性的蒙头
11:18
women妇女 should be able能够 to wear穿 whatever随你 they want, as far as I'm concerned关心.
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我认为女人应该想穿什么就穿什么
11:20
But what does voluntary自主性 mean
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但自发性是什么意思?
11:23
in a community社区 where,
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在一个女孩被强暴
11:25
when a girl女孩 gets得到 raped强奸,
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他的父亲的第一个反应
11:28
her father's父亲的 first impulse冲动,
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往往是谋杀她以免羞愧
11:30
rather often经常, is to murder谋杀 her out of shame耻辱?
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的这种社会,自发性是什么意思?
11:35
Just let that fact事实 detonate起爆 in your brain for a minute分钟:
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让这些事实在你脑中转一转:
11:42
Your daughter女儿 gets得到 raped强奸,
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你的女儿被强暴了
11:44
and what you want to do is kill her.
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你的反应竟然是杀掉她
11:52
What are the chances机会 that represents代表
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请问你真的觉得这应该是
11:54
a peak of human人的 flourishing芊芊?
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人类幸福的一个可能吗?
12:02
Now, to say this is not to say that we have got the
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我这么说,并不是说我们的社会
12:04
perfect完善 solution in our own拥有 society社会.
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有最完美的解答
12:08
For instance,
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举例来说
12:10
this is what it's like to go to a newsstand报摊 almost几乎 anywhere随地
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现在你到任何文明国家的报摊
12:12
in the civilized文明 world世界.
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都可以看到这样的景象
12:14
Now, granted理所当然, for many许多 men男人
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我必须承认,对大部分的男人来说
12:16
it may可能 require要求 a degree in philosophy哲学 to see something wrong错误 with these images图片.
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可能需要有博士学位才会觉得这有什么不对
12:19
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
12:22
But if we are in a reflective反光 mood心情,
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但在我们自省的时候
12:25
we can ask,
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我们也可以想
12:27
"Is this the perfect完善 expression表达
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“这样的东西会让我们
12:29
of psychological心理 balance平衡
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学习尊重不同女性的
12:31
with respect尊重 to variables变量 like youth青年 and beauty美女 and women's女士的 bodies身体?"
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年龄和肉体吗?”
12:34
I mean, is this the optimal最佳 environment环境
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难道我们会希望我们的孩子
12:36
in which哪一个 to raise提高 our children孩子?
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生在在这种视觉环境里吗?
12:40
Probably大概 not. OK, so perhaps也许 there's some place地点
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大概不会。
12:42
on the spectrum光谱
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于是在这两个极端中
12:44
between之间 these two extremes极端
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应该有一个中间点
12:46
that represents代表 a place地点 of better balance平衡.
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能带来一种比较健康的平衡
12:49
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
12:57
Perhaps也许 there are many许多 such这样 places地方 --
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或许这个平衡点不止一个
12:59
again, given特定 other changes变化 in human人的 culture文化
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在这个多元的世界里
13:02
there may可能 be many许多 peaks on the moral道德 landscape景观.
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我们的道德地图应该有许多不同的山峰
13:04
But the thing to notice注意 is that there will be
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但重点是
13:06
many许多 more ways方法 not to be on a peak.
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这世界上还有许多不是这些山峰的地方
13:11
Now the irony讽刺, from my perspective透视,
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在我看来,讽刺的事情是
13:13
is that the only people who seem似乎 to generally通常 agree同意 with me
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一般会认同我说法的
13:16
and who think that there are right and wrong错误 answers答案 to moral道德 questions问题
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那些觉得道德争议是有正确和错误答案的
13:19
are religious宗教 demagogues煽动者 of one form形成 or another另一个.
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大都是一些宗教家
13:22
And of course课程 they think they have right answers答案 to moral道德 questions问题
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他们当然会觉得道德争议有正确答案
13:25
because they got these answers答案 from a voice语音 in a whirlwind旋风,
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因为他们已经在神秘之声中听到这些答案了
13:29
not because they made制作 an intelligent智能 analysis分析 of the causes原因
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而不是因为他们理智思考和分析过这些议题
13:31
and condition条件 of human人的 and animal动物 well-being福利.
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人类和动物的幸福快乐
13:35
In fact事实, the endurance耐力 of religion宗教
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事实上,在许久以来
13:37
as a lens镜片 through通过 which哪一个 most people view视图 moral道德 questions问题
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宗教成为人们关注道德的角度
13:41
has separated分离 most moral道德 talk
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让所有的道德议题
13:44
from real真实 questions问题 of human人的 and animal动物 suffering痛苦.
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都和人类和动物的痛苦脱钩
13:48
This is why we spend our time
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这就是为什么我们花费精神
13:50
talking about things like gay同性恋者 marriage婚姻
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讨论同性恋是不是应该结婚
13:52
and not about genocide种族灭绝 or nuclear proliferation增殖
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而不是种族灭绝或是核子武器激增
13:56
or poverty贫穷 or any other hugely巨大 consequential后果 issue问题.
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或是贫穷和其它一样严重的议题
14:01
But the demagogues煽动者 are right about one thing: We need
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但这些宗教煽动者说对了一件事
14:03
a universal普遍 conception概念 of human人的 values.
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我们需要一个普世价值
14:07
Now, what stands站立 in the way of this?
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为什么这会这么困难?
14:09
Well, one thing to notice注意 is that we
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其中一件是就是当我们讨论道德
14:11
do something different不同 when talking about morality道德 --
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我们这些没有特殊宗教的、学术的、科学家型的人
14:13
especially特别 secular世俗, academic学术的, scientist科学家 types类型.
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就会产生差别待遇
14:17
When talking about morality道德 we value differences分歧 of opinion意见
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当我们讨论道德,我们就开始尊重不同意见
14:20
in a way that we don't in any other area of our lives生活.
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但我们在其它方面不会这样做
14:23
So, for instance the Dalai达赖 Lama喇嘛 gets得到 up every一切 morning早上
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举例来说,达赖喇嘛每天早上起来
14:25
meditating沉思 on compassion同情,
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思考仁爱精神
14:27
and he thinks that helping帮助 other human人的 beings众生 is an integral积分 component零件
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他认为帮助其它人类是
14:29
of human人的 happiness幸福.
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带来人类快乐的一部分
14:32
On the other hand, we have someone有人 like Ted摊晒 Bundy邦迪;
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另外一边我们有 Ted Bundy
14:34
Ted摊晒 Bundy邦迪 was very fond喜欢 of abducting绑架 and raping强奸
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他的兴趣是绑架和强暴
14:36
and torturing折磨 and killing谋杀 young年轻 women妇女.
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虐待和杀害这些年轻女孩
14:38
So, we appear出现 to have a genuine真正 difference区别 of opinion意见
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很明显的,这里我们看到每个人对打发时间
14:40
about how to profitably盈利 use one's那些 time.
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都有不同的看法
14:43
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
14:45
Most Western西 intellectuals知识分子
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大部分的西方学者
14:47
look at this situation情况
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看到这个状况
14:49
and say, "Well, there's nothing for the Dalai达赖 Lama喇嘛
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会说,“嗯事实上达赖喇嘛也不是
14:51
to be really right about -- really right about --
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完全正确,绝对正确
14:54
or for Ted摊晒 Bundy邦迪 to be really wrong错误 about
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Ted Bundy 也不是绝对错误
14:57
that admits承认 of a real真实 argument论据
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这其中没有真正的讨论价值
15:01
that potentially可能 falls下降 within the purview范围 of science科学.
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这是科学范畴的事
15:04
He likes喜欢 chocolate巧克力, he likes喜欢 vanilla香草.
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他喜欢巧克力,他喜欢香草
15:07
There's nothing that one should be able能够 to say to the other
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无论跟他们说什么
15:10
that should persuade说服 the other."
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都不能改变他们。”
15:13
Notice注意 that we don't do this in science科学.
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但我们不会这样讨论科学
15:16
On the left you have Edward爱德华 Witten威滕.
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左边这位是爱德华·威滕
15:18
He's a string theorist理论家.
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他是弦理论的专家
15:21
If you ask the smartest最聪明的 physicists物理学家 around
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如果你问你旁边最聪明的物理学家
15:23
who is the smartest最聪明的 physicist物理学家 around,
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谁是世界上最聪明的物理学家
15:25
in my experience经验 half of them will say Ed埃德 Witten威滕.
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我的经验是一半都会说是爱德华·威滕
15:28
The other half will tell you they don't like the question.
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另外一半会告诉你”她们不喜欢这个问题“
15:31
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
15:34
So, what would happen发生 if I showed显示 up at a physics物理 conference会议
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那么,如果我出现在一个物理研讨会
15:38
and said,"String theory理论 is bogus虚假.
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然后说”弦理论是个假货
15:40
It doesn't resonate谐振 with me. It's not how I chose选择 to
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我对它没有感觉,这不是我选择
15:42
view视图 the universe宇宙 at a small scale规模.
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的宇宙观
15:45
I'm not a fan风扇."
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我不是那派的。“
15:47
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
15:50
Well, nothing would happen发生 because I'm not a physicist物理学家;
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什么都不会发生,因为我不是物理学家
15:52
I don't understand理解 string theory理论.
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我不懂弦理论
15:54
I'm the Ted摊晒 Bundy邦迪 of string theory理论.
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我是弦理论的 Ted Bundy
15:56
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
15:59
I wouldn't不会 want to belong属于 to any string theory理论 club俱乐部 that would have me as a member会员.
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我不想加入任何愿意接受我的弦理论社团
16:02
But this is just the point.
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这就是重点
16:04
Whenever每当 we are talking about facts事实
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当我们谈论事实
16:07
certain某些 opinions意见 must必须 be excluded排除.
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我们必须排除某些意见
16:09
That is what it is to have a domain of expertise专门知识.
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那就是为什么我们有专业
16:12
That is what it is for knowledge知识 to count计数.
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那就是为什么我们应该依靠知识
16:15
How have we convinced相信 ourselves我们自己
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无论我们怎么和自己说
16:18
that in the moral道德 sphere领域 there is no such这样 thing as moral道德 expertise专门知识,
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在道德里没有所谓的道德专家
16:22
or moral道德 talent天赋, or moral道德 genius天才 even?
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道德人才,或甚至道德天才
16:25
How have we convinced相信 ourselves我们自己
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为什么我们要说服自己
16:27
that every一切 opinion意见 has to count计数?
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所有的意见都应该纳入考虑?
16:29
How have we convinced相信 ourselves我们自己
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我们是怎么说服自己
16:31
that every一切 culture文化 has a point of view视图
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所有的文化对这些事情都有自己的观点
16:33
on these subjects主题 worth价值 considering考虑?
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而我们都应该把他们纳入考量?
16:36
Does the Taliban塔利班
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难道塔利班
16:38
have a point of view视图 on physics物理
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对物理学的意见
16:40
that is worth价值 considering考虑? No.
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也值得我们考虑吗?不。
16:43
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
16:48
How is their ignorance无知 any less obvious明显
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但他们对幸福的无知
16:51
on the subject学科 of human人的 well-being福利?
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和他们对物理的无知有什么不同?
16:53
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
16:59
So, this, I think, is what the world世界 needs需求 now.
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现在世界所需要的是
17:03
It needs需求 people like ourselves我们自己 to admit承认
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像我们这样的人们承认
17:06
that there are right and wrong错误 answers答案
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在人类的幸福问题中
17:09
to questions问题 of human人的 flourishing芊芊,
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是有正确和错误答案的
17:11
and morality道德 relates涉及
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以及道德
17:13
to that domain of facts事实.
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是和事实有直接关联的
17:15
It is possible可能
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个人
17:17
for individuals个人, and even for whole整个 cultures文化,
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或整个文化
17:21
to care关心 about the wrong错误 things,
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过分关心某些错误议题是绝对可能的
17:23
which哪一个 is to say that it's possible可能 for them
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他们的信仰和想法也绝对有可能
17:26
to have beliefs信仰 and desires欲望 that reliably可靠 lead
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为人类带来
17:28
to needless不必要 human人的 suffering痛苦.
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无必要的痛苦
17:30
Just admitting承认 this will transform转变 our discourse演讲 about morality道德.
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承认这些事实会改变我们讨论道德的方式
17:35
We live生活 in a world世界 in which哪一个
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在今日世界中
17:38
the boundaries边界 between之间 nations国家 mean less and less,
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国界的意义不断减弱
17:41
and they will one day mean nothing.
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有一天国界将没有任何意义
17:44
We live生活 in a world世界 filled填充 with destructive有害 technology技术,
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我们住在一个充满危险科技的世界
17:46
and this technology技术 cannot不能 be uninventeduninvented;
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这些科技可以不要被发明
17:48
it will always be easier更轻松
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因为捣毁一样事情
17:50
to break打破 things than to fix固定 them.
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永远比重建容易
17:54
It seems似乎 to me, therefore因此, patently公然 obvious明显
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我认为,很明显地
17:56
that we can no more
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我们不能再
18:00
respect尊重 and tolerate容忍
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尊重和容忍这些
18:02
vast广大 differences分歧 in notions概念 of human人的 well-being福利
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对人类幸福的不同观点
18:06
than we can respect尊重 or tolerate容忍 vast广大 differences分歧
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就像我们不会尊重和容忍
18:09
in the notions概念 about how disease疾病 spreads利差,
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传染病的散播
18:12
or in the safety安全 standards标准 of buildings房屋 and airplanes飞机.
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或是建筑和飞机的安全标准
18:15
We simply只是 must必须 converge汇集
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我们必须承认,这些问题
18:18
on the answers答案 we give to the most important重要 questions问题 in human人的 life.
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能找到解答,才有可能
18:22
And to do that, we have to admit承认 that these questions问题 have answers答案.
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回答人类生命中最重要的这些问题。
18:27
Thank you very much.
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谢谢大家。
18:29
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
18:52
Chris克里斯 Anderson安德森: So, some combustible易燃 material材料 there.
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Chris Anderson:让我提出一些争议性的问题
18:56
Whether是否 in this audience听众 or people elsewhere别处 in the world世界,
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这里有某些人,或现在在世界上别的角落
18:59
hearing听力 some of this, may可能 well be doing the
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可能有人听见这个
19:01
screaming-with-rage尖叫与 - 愤怒 thing, after as well, some of them.
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然后愤怒或尖叫。某些人。
19:06
Language语言 seems似乎 to be really important重要 here.
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语言似乎是个很重要的元素
19:08
When you're talking about the veil面纱,
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但你提到面罩的时候
19:10
you're talking about women妇女 dressed连衣裙的 in cloth bags包装袋.
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你是说那些把全身蒙住的女人吗
19:13
I've lived生活 in the Muslim穆斯林 world世界, spoken with a lot of Muslim穆斯林 women妇女.
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我曾在回教国家居住,和许多回教妇女谈话
19:17
And some of them would say something else其他. They would say,
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她们可能会有别种想法。她们会说
19:19
"No, you know, this is a celebration庆典
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”不,这是对女性的一种礼赞
19:22
of female specialness特殊性,
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凸显我们是特别的,
19:25
it helps帮助 build建立 that and it's a result结果 of the fact事实 that" --
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这帮助我们这个,而且是因为那个……“
19:27
and this is arguably按理说 a sophisticated复杂的 psychological心理 view视图 --
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当然这不是一种非常可靠的心理学论点
19:31
"that male lust情欲 is not to be trusted信任."
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”你不能信任男人的情欲“
19:34
I mean, can you engage从事 in a conversation会话
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我们是否可以用一种
19:37
with that kind of woman女人 without seeming表面上的 kind of cultural文化 imperialist帝国主义者?
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不带着文化帝国主义的角度和这些女人讨论这些问题
19:42
Sam山姆 Harris哈里斯: Yeah, well I think I tried试着 to broach拉刀 this in a sentence句子,
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Sam Harris:让我一边看着秒针
19:45
watching观看 the clock时钟 ticking滴答,
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一边尝试简短回答这个问题
19:47
but the question is:
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真正的问题是
19:49
What is voluntary自主性 in a context上下文
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这真的是她们的个人意愿吗
19:52
where men男人 have certain某些 expectations期望,
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在男人期待你戴上面罩
19:54
and you're guaranteed保证 to be treated治疗 in a certain某些 way
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如果不戴就必须承受某种后果
19:58
if you don't veil面纱 yourself你自己?
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的状况下?
20:00
And so, if anyone任何人 in this room房间
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如果在这个房间里
20:02
wanted to wear穿 a veil面纱,
417
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有任何人想要戴面罩
20:04
or a very funny滑稽 hat帽子, or tattoo their face面对 --
418
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一个非常可笑的帽子,或是在脸上刺青
20:07
I think we should be free自由 to voluntarily自行 do whatever随你 we want,
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我想每个人应该做我们想做的,在自愿的情况下
20:10
but we have to be honest诚实 about
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但我们必须诚实面对
20:13
the constraints限制 that these women妇女 are placed放置 under.
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这些女人的处境
20:15
And so I think we shouldn't不能 be so eager急于
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我认为我们不应该太快地
20:18
to always take their word for it,
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接受她们的说法
20:20
especially特别 when it's 120 degrees out
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尤其在120度高温
20:22
and you're wearing穿着 a full充分 burqa布卡.
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而你竟然必须蒙住全身的状况下
20:25
CACA: A lot of people want to believe in this
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许多人想要相信
20:27
concept概念 of moral道德 progress进展.
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道德进步的这个概念
20:29
But can you reconcile调和 that?
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但是这有可能达到和谐吗?
20:31
I think I understood了解 you to say that you could
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我想我了解你所说的
20:33
reconcile调和 that with a world世界 that doesn't become成为
430
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不要让世界变得只有一种道德
20:35
one dimensional尺寸的, where we all have to think the same相同.
431
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也不需要大家都只有一种想法
20:38
Paint涂料 your picture图片 of what
432
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你可以告诉我们
20:40
rolling压延 the clock时钟 50 years年份 forward前锋,
433
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如果我们快转到50年后
20:43
100 years年份 forward前锋, how you would like to think of
434
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100年后,你希望我们的世界
20:45
the world世界, balancing平衡 moral道德 progress进展
435
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能如何在道德进步和多元文化中
20:48
with richness丰富.
436
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找到平衡
20:51
SHSH: Well, I think once一旦 you admit承认
437
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一旦我们承认
20:53
that we are on the path路径 toward understanding理解 our minds头脑
438
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我们走在解构理性的路上
20:56
at the level水平 of the brain in some important重要 detail详情,
439
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以理解大脑运作的方法
20:59
then you have to admit承认
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那么你也必须承认
21:01
that we are going to understand理解 all of the positive
441
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我们将会更明白
21:05
and negative qualities气质
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我们身上的这些
21:07
of ourselves我们自己 in much greater更大 detail详情.
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正面和负面的特质
21:09
So, we're going to understand理解 positive social社会 emotion情感
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我们会理解正面的社群特质
21:11
like empathy同情 and compassion同情,
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像是同情心、仁爱心
21:13
and we're going to understand理解 the factors因素
446
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我们将会了解是怎样的元素
21:15
that encourage鼓励 it -- whether是否 they're genetic遗传,
447
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帮助我们有这些特质 - 无论是基因
21:17
whether是否 they're how people talk to one another另一个,
448
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是人们对话的方式
21:19
whether是否 they're economic经济 systems系统,
449
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是经济体系
21:21
and insofar只要 as we begin开始 to shine闪耀 light on that
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我们正要开始发现
21:24
we are inevitably必将 going to converge汇集
451
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并无可避免的步向
21:26
on that fact事实 space空间.
452
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这些事实
21:28
So, everything is not going to be up for grabs争夺.
453
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我们不能再自由心证
21:30
It's not going to be like
454
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为了得到男人的青睐
21:33
veiling面纱 my daughter女儿 from birth分娩
455
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就让我刚出生的女儿蒙头
21:35
is just as good as teaching教学 her
456
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或是教导她成为一个
21:38
to be confident信心 and well-educated受过良好教育
457
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自信而有教养的女性
21:42
in the context上下文 of men男人 who do desire欲望 women妇女.
458
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是完全不同的两件事
21:45
I mean I don't think we need an NSFNSF grant发放 to know
459
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我想我们不需要国家科学基金会特别拨款
21:49
that compulsory义务 veiling面纱 is a bad idea理念 --
460
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才能发现强制女人蒙头很不好
21:52
but at a certain某些 point
461
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到了某种程度
21:54
we're going to be able能够 to scan扫描 the brains大脑 of everyone大家 involved参与
462
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我们可以扫描每个人的头脑
21:57
and actually其实 interrogate审问 them.
463
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并研究它们
22:00
Do people love their daughters女儿
464
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人们真的爱它们的女儿吗
22:03
just as much in these systems系统?
465
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就算在那样的文化下?
22:06
And I think there are clearly明确地 right answers答案 to that.
466
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我想这些问题是有正确答案的。
22:08
CACA: And if the results结果 come out that actually其实 they do,
467
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C.A.:如果结论是她们真的快乐
22:11
are you prepared准备 to shift转移 your instinctive直觉的 current当前 judgment判断
468
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你准备好改变你现在的直观判断了吗
22:14
on some of these issues问题?
469
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在这些议题上
22:16
SHSH: Well yeah, modulo one obvious明显 fact事实,
470
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S.H.:举个真实案例
22:19
that you can love someone有人
471
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就算在一个虚假的道德体系里
22:21
in the context上下文 of a truly delusional妄想 belief信仰 system系统.
472
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3000
你还是可以爱人
22:24
So, you can say like, "Because I knew知道 my gay同性恋者 son儿子
473
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2000
你会说,“因为我爱我的儿子,
22:26
was going to go to hell地狱 if he found发现 a boyfriend男朋友,
474
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3000
我不想他因为他的男朋友下地狱
22:29
I chopped切碎的 his head off. And that was the most compassionate富于同情心的 thing I could do."
475
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于是我把他的头砍下来,这就是我对他的爱
22:32
If you get all those parts部分 aligned对齐,
476
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如果你能找到一个均衡
22:34
yes I think you could probably大概 be feeling感觉 the emotion情感 of love.
477
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是的你仍然可以感觉到一种爱
22:37
But again, then we have to talk about
478
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但是我们也必须把幸福
22:39
well-being福利 in a larger context上下文.
479
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放到更大的背景下来谈
22:41
It's all of us in this together一起,
480
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这是我们共同的功课
22:43
not one man feeling感觉 ecstasy狂喜
481
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不是一个男人进入一种狂喜状态
22:47
and then blowing himself他自己 up on a bus总线.
482
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就可以在巴士上把自己炸掉
22:49
CACA: Sam山姆, this is a conversation会话 I would actually其实 love to
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C.A.:我很希望这个对话可以继续
22:51
continue继续 for hours小时.
484
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几个小时
22:53
We don't have that, but maybe another另一个 time. Thank you for coming未来 to TEDTED.
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虽然现在不行,或许在不远的将来。谢谢你来 TED 演讲
22:55
SHSH: Really an honor荣誉. Thank you.
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S.H.:是我的荣幸,谢谢你。
22:57
(Applause掌声)
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Translated by Coco Shen
Reviewed by Tony Yet

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sam Harris - Neuroscientist, philosopher
Sam Harris's work focuses on how our growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.

Why you should listen

Sam Harris is the author of five New York Times bestsellers. His books include The End of FaithLetter to a Christian Nation, The Moral Landscape, Free Will, Lying, Waking Up and Islam and the Future of Tolerance (with Maajid Nawaz). The End of Faith won the 2005 PEN Award for Nonfiction. Harris's writing and public lectures cover a wide range of topics -- neuroscience, moral philosophy, religion, spirituality, violence, human reasoning -- but generally focus on how a growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.

Harris's work has been published in more than 20 languages and has been discussed in the New York Times, Time, Scientific American, Nature, Newsweek, Rolling Stone and many other journals. He has written for the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, The Economist, The Times (London), the Boston Globe, The Atlantic, The Annals of Neurology and elsewhere. Harris also regularly hosts a popular podcast.

Harris received a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA.

More profile about the speaker
Sam Harris | Speaker | TED.com