ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Suki Kim - Writer
Suki Kim's investigation, "Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite," chronicles her six months undercover in Pyongyang during Kim Jong-Il's final six months. She worked as a teacher and a missionary in a university for future leaders -- all while writing her book.

Why you should listen

Suki Kim is the only writer to ever go undercover into North Korea to write a book from the inside. Since 2002, South Korean-born Kim travelled to North Korea, witnessing both Kim Jong-Il's 60th birthday celebration and his death at age 69 in 2011. 

Her work sheds a new light on the understanding of the North Korean society by delving into its day-to-day life and provides unprecedented insights into the psychology of its ruling class, about whom the world knows very little.

Kim's novel, The Interpreter, was a finalist for a PEN Hemingway Prize, and her nonfiction has appeared in The New York Times, Harper's and The New York Review of Books. She is the author of the investigation Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite.

 

More profile about the speaker
Suki Kim | Speaker | TED.com
TED2015

Suki Kim: This is what it's like to go undercover in North Korea

蘇琦.金: 在北韓教書是怎樣的感受

Filmed:
4,696,959 views

在六個月的時間裡,作為英語老師,蘇琦.金在北韓的精英學校教導北韓的未來領袖——同時她也在寫一本書,寫一本關於這世上最專制政權的樣子。她幫助她的學生努力理解「真實」和「批判思考」的概念。她開始思考:教導這些學生追求真理是不是將他們置於危險境地?(本次演講是 TED2015 在 Pop-up 雜誌客座平台的一部份,相關資訊詳見 popupmagazine.com 或推特上的 @popupmag)
- Writer
Suki Kim's investigation, "Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite," chronicles her six months undercover in Pyongyang during Kim Jong-Il's final six months. She worked as a teacher and a missionary in a university for future leaders -- all while writing her book. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
In 2011, during the final最後 six months個月
of Kim Jong-Il's金正日 life,
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在 2011 年,金正日人生最後的六個月,
00:19
I lived生活 undercover秘密 in North Korea韓國.
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我秘密生活在北韓。
00:23
I was born天生 and raised上調
in South Korea韓國, their enemy敵人.
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我在它的敵對國家南韓出生長大,
00:28
I live生活 in America美國, their other enemy敵人.
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在它另一個敵對國家美國居住。
00:32
Since以來 2002, I had visited參觀
North Korea韓國 a few少數 times.
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從 2002 年起,我數次訪問北韓。
00:36
And I had come to realize實現
that to write about it with any meaning含義,
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我意識到,如果想要寫關於北韓的
有意義的書,
00:42
or to understand理解 the place地點
beyond the regime's政權 propaganda宣傳,
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或是超越政權的政治宣傳,
00:47
the only option選項 was total immersion浸沒.
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唯一的方式就是將自己完全融入。
00:54
So I posed構成 as a teacher老師 and a missionary傳教士
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因此我以教師和傳教士的身份
00:58
at an all-male所有男性 university大學 in Pyongyang平壤.
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在平壤一所男子大學工作。
01:06
The Pyongyang平壤 University大學
of Science科學 and Technology技術
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平壤科學技術大學
01:10
was founded成立 by Evangelical福音 Christians基督徒
who cooperate合作 with the regime政權
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由福音派基督徒建立,
他與當權者合作
01:15
to educate教育 the sons兒子
of the North Korean朝鮮的 elite原種,
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辦學教育北韓精英家庭的孩子,
01:21
without proselytizing傳教,
which哪一個 is a capital首都 crime犯罪 there.
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他們沒有誘勸他們改宗,
這被認為是嚴重的罪行。
01:27
The students學生們 were 270 young年輕 men男人,
expected預期 to be the future未來 leaders領導者
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學生們是 270 位年輕男子,
他們被期待成為未來領袖,
01:33
of the most isolated孤立 and brutal野蠻
dictatorship專政 in existence存在.
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領導這個世界上
最孤立且殘忍的獨裁政權。
01:40
When I arrived到達, they became成為 my students學生們.
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我在那裡,他們成為我的學生。
01:47
2011 was a special特別 year,
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2011 是個特殊的年份,
01:49
marking印記 the 100th anniversary週年 of the birth分娩
of North Korea's韓國的 original原版的 Great Leader領導,
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是朝鮮偉大領袖金日成的
01:55
Kim Il-Sung金日成.
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百年生日。
01:57
To celebrate慶祝 the occasion場合, the regime政權
shut關閉 down all universities高校,
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為了慶祝這個盛會,
政府關閉了所有的大學,
02:03
and sent發送 students學生們 off to the fields領域
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把學生們遣散到各個工地
02:06
to build建立 the DPRK's朝鮮 much-heralded大肆讚揚 ideal理想
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去樹立北韓這個
世界上最強盛繁榮的國家
02:10
as the world's世界 most powerful強大
and prosperous繁榮 nation國家.
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最偉大的救世主的形象。
02:16
My students學生們 were the only ones那些
spared倖免 from that fate命運.
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我的學生們是唯一一群
免於辛苦勞動的人。
02:21
North Korea韓國 is a gulag古拉格 posing冒充 as a nation國家.
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北韓是以國家形態呈現的
共產主義古拉格集中營。
02:26
Everything there
is about the Great Leader領導.
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在那裡的一切都有關於偉大領袖。
02:28
Every一切 book, every一切 newspaper報紙 article文章,
every一切 song歌曲, every一切 TV電視 program程序 --
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每本書、每篇報刊文章、
每首歌、每個電視節目——
02:33
there is just one subject學科.
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只有一個主題。
02:35
The flowers花卉 are named命名 after him,
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花朵以他的名字命名,
02:37
the mountains are carved with his slogans口號.
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山上篆刻著他的口號。
02:40
Every一切 citizen公民 wears穿 the badge徽章
of the Great Leader領導 at all times.
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每個居民無時無刻不佩戴領袖像章,
02:45
Even their calendar日曆 system系統 begins開始
with the birth分娩 of Kim Il-Sung金日成.
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甚至他們的日曆系統
都要以金日成的生日作為開始。
02:51
The school學校 was a heavily嚴重 guarded守衛
prison監獄, posing冒充 as a campus校園.
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學校是重兵嚴守的監獄
以校園的形式出現。
02:56
Teachers教師 could only leave離開 on group outings郊遊
accompanied伴隨著 by an official官方 minder看守者.
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老師們只有在集體外出活動時才能離開,
並且有一位官方人員隨行。
03:03
Even then, our trips旅行 were limited有限
to sanctioned制裁 national國民 monuments紀念碑
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即使這樣,我們的遊覽
也僅限於遊覽國家紀念碑,
03:09
celebrating慶祝 the Great Leader領導.
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慶祝偉大領袖。
03:12
The students學生們 were not allowed允許
to leave離開 the campus校園,
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學生們不允許離開校園,
03:16
or communicate通信 with their parents父母.
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或是與他們的父母接觸。
03:20
Their days were meticulously精心 mapped映射 out,
and any free自由 time they had
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他們的日程都被精心安排,
那些僅有的自由活動時間
03:24
was devoted忠誠 to honoring表彰
their Great Leader領導.
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也都用在敬仰偉大領袖上。
03:29
Lesson plans計劃 had to meet遇到 the approval贊同
of North Korean朝鮮的 staff員工,
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課程安排必須經過北韓官員的批准,
03:34
every一切 class was recorded記錄 and reported報導 on,
every一切 room房間 was bugged竊聽,
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每堂課都有被記錄、再彙報,
每個房間都裝了竊聽器,
03:38
and every一切 conversation會話, overheard偷聽.
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每個對話,都會被聽見。
03:42
Every一切 blank空白 space空間 was covered覆蓋 with the
portraits畫像 of Kim Il-Sung金日成 and Kim Jong-Il金正日,
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所有空置的空間都會被
金日成和金正日的畫像佔據,
03:48
like everywhere到處 else其他 in North Korea韓國.
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就像北韓的其他地方。
03:53
We were never allowed允許
to discuss討論 the outside world世界.
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我們不允許討論外部的世界。
03:55
As students學生們 of science科學 and technology技術,
many許多 of them were computer電腦 majors專業
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科學技術大學的學生,
大部份主修電腦科學,
04:01
but they did not know
the existence存在 of the Internet互聯網.
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但他們不知道網際網路的存在。
04:04
They had never heard聽說
of Mark標記 Zuckerberg扎克伯格 or Steve史蒂夫 Jobs工作.
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他們從未聽過馬克.祖克柏 (臉書創辦人)
或是史蒂夫.喬布斯 (蘋果創辦人)。
04:09
FacebookFacebook的, Twitter推特 -- none沒有 of those things
would have meant意味著 a thing.
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臉書、推特——這些對他們來說
什麼意義也沒有。
04:14
And I could not tell them.
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我也不能告訴他們。
04:18
I went there looking for truth真相.
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我去那裡尋找真相,
04:22
But where do you even start開始
when an entire整個 nation's國家 ideology思想,
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然而,你甚至不知道要如何開始,
因為整個國家的意識形態,
04:25
my students'學生們' day-to-day日復一日 realities現實,
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我學生們每日生活,
04:27
and even my own擁有 position位置
at the universities高校,
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甚至我在大學的職位
04:31
were all built內置 on lies?
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都建築在謊言之上?
04:37
I started開始 with a game遊戲.
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我從一個遊戲開始。
04:39
We played發揮 "Truth真相 and Lie謊言."
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我們玩「真實與謊言」。
04:42
A volunteer志願者 would write a sentence句子
on the chalkboard黑板,
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一個學生在黑板上寫了一句話
04:45
and the other students學生們 had to guess猜測
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另一個學生要去猜
04:48
whether是否 it was a truth真相 or a lie謊言.
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這是實話還是謊言。
04:51
Once一旦 a student學生 wrote, "I visited參觀
China中國 last year on vacation假期,"
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當一個學生寫道:
「去年假期我訪問了中國。」
04:55
and everyone大家 shouted喝道, "Lie謊言!"
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所有人大聲說:「謊言!」
04:59
They all knew知道 this wasn't possible可能.
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他們知道這是不可能的。
05:01
Virtually實質上 no North Korean朝鮮的 is allowed允許
to leave離開 the country國家.
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事實上,沒有人被允許離開這個國家。
05:05
Even traveling旅行 within their own擁有 country國家
requires要求 a travel旅行 pass通過.
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即使在國家內部旅行
也需要一個旅行證件。
05:12
I had hoped希望 that this game遊戲 would reveal揭示
some truth真相 about my students學生們,
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我希望這個遊戲能夠
揭露關於學生們的一些真相,
05:17
because they lie謊言 so often經常 and so easily容易,
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因為他們說謊太頻繁,太容易,
05:20
whether是否 about the mythical神話
accomplishments成就 of their Great Leader領導,
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關於領袖神話讚美的言論,
05:25
or the strange奇怪 claim要求 that they cloned克隆
a rabbit兔子 as fifth第五 graders平地機.
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或是奇怪地宣稱他們在小學五年級
就已經無性繁殖了兔子。
05:31
The difference區別 between之間 truth真相 and lies
seemed似乎 at times hazy朦朧 to them.
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對他們來說,真實與謊言
界限太模糊。
05:36
It took me a while to understand理解
the different不同 types類型 of lies;
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我花了些時間來了解
不同類型的謊言;
05:40
they lie謊言 to shield屏蔽 their system系統
from the world世界,
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他們說謊為了將他們的國家系統
獨立於整個世界,
05:43
or they were taught lies,
and were just regurgitating反芻 them.
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或許他們受到的教育是假話,
他們只是在重複這些假話。
05:47
Or, at moments瞬間, they lied說謊 out of habit習慣.
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或者,有些時候,
他們習慣性地說謊。
05:52
But if all they have ever known已知 were lies,
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但是,如果他們接受的資訊都是假的,
05:56
how could we expect期望 them to be otherwise除此以外?
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我們怎麼能夠期待他們說些別的呢?
06:01
Next下一個, I tried試著 to teach them essay文章 writing寫作.
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隨後,我試著教他們寫作,
06:04
But that turned轉身 out to be
nearly幾乎 impossible不可能.
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但這完全是不可能的。
06:07
Essays隨筆 are about coming未來 up with
one's那些 own擁有 thesis論文,
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寫作意味著寫他們自己的文章,
06:11
and making製造 an evidence-based循證
argument論據 to prove證明 it.
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用以事實為基礎的論據去證明它。
06:16
These students學生們, however然而, were
simply只是 told what to think,
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然而這些學生
簡單地被告知要去想些什麼,
06:19
and they obeyed遵命.
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他們尊崇。
06:21
In their world世界, critical危急 thinking思維
was not allowed允許.
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在他們的世界,批判性思維
是不被允許的。
06:26
I also gave them the weekly每週 assignment分配
of writing寫作 a personal個人 letter,
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我佈置了一項作業,寫一封信
06:31
to anybody任何人.
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給任何人。
06:33
It took a long time, but eventually終於
some of them began開始 to write
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過了一些時間,最後他們中的一些人
開始寫
06:37
to their mothers母親, their friends朋友,
their girlfriends女友.
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給他們的母親、朋友、女友。
06:42
Although雖然 those were just homework家庭作業,
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儘管這些只是家庭作業,
06:45
and would never reach達到
their intended recipients收件人,
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這些信永遠不會送到對方手中,
06:49
my students學生們 slowly慢慢地 began開始 to reveal揭示
their true真正 feelings情懷 in them.
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學生們慢慢地開始展現
他們的真實情感。
06:54
They wrote that they were fed美聯儲
up with the sameness千篇一律 of everything.
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他們寫道,他們受夠了
千篇一律。
06:59
They were worried擔心 about their future未來.
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他們擔心自己的未來。
07:01
In those letters, they rarely很少 ever
mentioned提到 their Great Leader領導.
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在那些信中,他們很少提到
偉大領袖。
07:10
I was spending開支 all of my time
with these young年輕 men男人.
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我把所有時間都用在
和這些年輕男生相處。
07:14
We all ate meals together一起,
played發揮 basketball籃球 together一起.
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我們一起吃飯,
一起打籃球。
07:19
I often經常 called them gentlemen紳士,
which哪一個 made製作 them giggle傻笑.
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我常常稱呼他們紳士,
這讓他們感到有趣。
07:24
They blushed臉紅 at the mention提到 of girls女孩.
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他們提到女孩子的時候會害羞,
07:28
And I came來了 to adore崇拜 them.
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我開始喜歡他們。
07:30
And watching觀看 them open打開 up
even in the tiniest最小的 of ways方法,
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看著他們敞開心扉
即使只是一點點,
07:34
was deeply moving移動.
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都非常感動。
07:37
But something also felt wrong錯誤.
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但有些事情感覺不對,
07:40
During those months個月
of living活的 in their world世界,
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在那幾個月裡
生活在他們的世界,
07:43
I often經常 wondered想知道 if the truth真相 would,
in fact事實, improve提高 their lives生活.
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我時常想,真相會不會
提升他們的生活。
07:51
I wanted so much to tell them the truth真相,
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我太想告訴他們真相了,
07:54
of their country國家 and of the outside world世界,
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關於他們的國家和外部的世界,
07:58
where Arab阿拉伯 youth青年 were turning車削
their rotten regime政權 inside out,
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阿拉伯年輕人把腐朽的政權
鬧得翻天覆地,
08:02
using運用 the power功率 of social社會 media媒體,
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靠社群媒體的力量,
08:04
where everyone大家 except them was
connected連接的 through通過 the world世界 wide web捲筒紙,
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除了他們,世界上每個人
都能夠通過網路連接彼此,
08:08
which哪一個 wasn't worldwide全世界 after all.
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終究不是全世界都能這樣。
08:13
But for them, the truth真相 was dangerous危險.
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但對於他們來說,
真相是危險的。
08:18
By encouraging鼓舞人心的 them to run after it,
I was putting them at risk風險 --
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如果鼓勵他們追求真理,
就是把他們置於危險之中——
08:23
of persecution迫害,
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或是遭到迫害,
08:26
of heartbreak心碎.
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或是心碎。
08:30
When you're not allowed允許 to express表現
anything in the open打開,
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當你不被允許
在公開場合表達想法,
08:33
you become成為 good at reading
what is unspoken.
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你會開始擅長讀出
那些沒有說出口的事。
08:37
In one of their personal個人 letters to me,
a student學生 wrote that he understood了解
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在他們給我的個人信件,
一个學生寫到,他理解
08:42
why I always called them gentlemen紳士.
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為什麼我一直稱呼他們紳士,
08:46
It was because I was wishing希望 them
to be gentle溫和 in life, he said.
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因為我祝願他們人生平和安逸。
08:54
On my last day in December十二月 of 2011,
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我在北韓的最後一天
2011 年的 12 月,
08:57
the day Kim Jong-Il's金正日 death死亡 was announced公佈,
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那天政府公佈了金正日的死訊,
09:00
their world世界 shattered破滅.
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他們的世界粉碎了。
09:04
I had to leave離開 without a proper正確 goodbye再見.
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我必須要離開,
甚至無法說再見。
09:08
But I think they knew知道
how sad傷心 I was for them.
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但我想,他們知道我有多麼悲傷。
09:12
Once一旦, toward the end結束 of my stay,
a student學生 said to me,
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在我快要離開的時候,
一個學生告訴我,
09:16
"Professor教授, we never think of you
as being存在 different不同 from us.
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「教授,我們從未覺得
你和我們是不同的。
09:21
Our circumstances情況 are different不同,
but you're the same相同 as us.
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我們的處境不同,
但你和我們是一樣的。
09:27
We want you to know that we truly
think of you as being存在 the same相同."
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我想讓你知道,我們真的認為
你和我們是一樣的。」
09:37
Today今天, if I could respond響應
to my students學生們 with a letter of my own擁有,
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今時今日,如果我能親自回覆
一封信給我的學生們,
09:41
which哪一個 is of course課程 impossible不可能,
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當然這是不可能的,
09:44
I would tell them this:
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我會告訴他們:
09:49
"My dear gentlemen紳士,
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「我親愛的紳士們,
09:52
It's been a bit over three years年份
since以來 I last saw you.
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距我離開你們已經三年多了,
09:55
And now, you must必須 be 22 --
maybe even as old as 23.
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現在,你們應該已經 22 歲了——
也許 23 歲了。
10:00
At our final最後 class, I asked you
if there was anything you wanted.
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在最後一堂課上,我問你們
你們想要什麼。
10:05
The only wish希望 you expressed表達,
the only thing you ever asked of me
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你們表達的唯一願望,
你們提出的唯一要求
10:09
in all those months個月 we spent花費 together一起,
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在我們共同度過的那些時光,
10:12
was for me to speak說話 to you in Korean朝鮮的.
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是我能用韓語和你們對話。
10:15
Just once一旦.
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只有一次也好。
10:17
I was there to teach you English英語;
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我是去那裡教你們英語的;
10:19
you knew知道 it wasn't allowed允許.
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你們知道這是不被允許的,
10:22
But I understood了解 then, you wanted
to share分享 that bond of our mother母親 tongue.
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但我理解,你們想要與我分享
我們共同的母語。
10:30
I called you my gentlemen紳士,
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我稱呼你們為紳士,
10:33
but I don't know if being存在 gentle溫和
in Kim Jong-Un's金正云的 merciless無情 North Korea韓國
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但我不知道在金正恩殘酷統治下的北韓
平和溫順是不是
10:37
is a good thing.
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一件好事。
10:39
I don't want you to lead a revolution革命 --
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我不希望你們引領一場革命——
10:42
let some other young年輕 person do it.
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讓其他的年輕人去做吧。
10:45
The rest休息 of the world世界 might威力 casually胡亂
encourage鼓勵 or even expect期望
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即使全世界都鼓勵
甚至期待
10:48
some sort分類 of North Korean朝鮮的 Spring彈簧,
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某種「北韓之春」的革命運動,
10:50
but I don't want you to do anything risky有風險,
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但我不希望你們冒險,
10:53
because I know in your world世界,
someone有人 is always watching觀看.
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因為我知道在你們的世界,
總有人在監視。
10:59
I don't want to imagine想像
what might威力 happen發生 to you.
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我不想想像你們會遭遇什麼。
11:02
If my attempts嘗試 to reach達到 you have
inspired啟發 something new in you,
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如果我對你們講授的知識
激發了你們心中新的想法,
11:07
I would rather you forget忘記 me.
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我寧願你們忘記我。
11:09
Become成為 soldiers士兵 of your Great Leader領導,
and live生活 long, safe安全 lives生活.
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成為你們偉大領袖的戰士,
過著平穩安逸的人生。
11:16
You once一旦 asked me if I thought
your city of Pyongyang平壤 was beautiful美麗,
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你們曾經問我
我認為你們的首都平壤漂亮嗎,
11:21
and I could not answer回答 truthfully如實 then.
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我無法回答你們真相。
11:25
But I know why you asked.
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但我知道為什麼你們這樣問,
11:27
I know that it was important重要 for you
to hear that I, your teacher老師,
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我知道這對你們來說很重要,
聽到你們的老師我
11:32
the one who has seen看到 the world世界
that you are forbidden被禁止 from,
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這個看過你們
被禁止踏足外面世界的人,
11:35
declare宣布 your city as the most beautiful美麗.
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告訴你們平壤是最漂亮的。
11:41
I know hearing聽力 that would make
your lives生活 there a bit more bearable可忍受的,
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5155
我知道聽到這樣的評價
會讓你們的人生更好受一些,
11:46
but no, I don't find
your capital首都 beautiful美麗.
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但是不,我不認為你們的首都漂亮。
11:50
Not because it's monotone單調 and concrete具體,
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不是因為它單調的混凝土建築,
11:53
but because of what it symbolizes象徵著:
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而是因為它的象徵意義:
11:55
a monster怪物 that feeds供稿 off
the rest休息 of the country國家,
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一個吞噬其國民的怪物,
12:00
where citizens公民 are soldiers士兵 and slaves奴隸.
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把人民當做士兵和奴隸。
12:05
All I see there is darkness黑暗.
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我看到的是黑暗。
12:09
But it's your home, so I cannot不能 hate討厭 it.
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但這是你們的家,
因此我不能憎恨它。
12:13
And I hope希望 instead代替 that you,
my lovely可愛 young年輕 gentlemen紳士,
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我希望你們,
我可愛年輕的紳士們,
12:18
will one day help make it beautiful美麗.
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會讓它變得更加美麗。
12:22
Thank you.
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謝謝。
12:24
(Applause掌聲)
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(鼓掌)
Translated by Zhiting Chen
Reviewed by Geoff Chen

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Suki Kim - Writer
Suki Kim's investigation, "Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite," chronicles her six months undercover in Pyongyang during Kim Jong-Il's final six months. She worked as a teacher and a missionary in a university for future leaders -- all while writing her book.

Why you should listen

Suki Kim is the only writer to ever go undercover into North Korea to write a book from the inside. Since 2002, South Korean-born Kim travelled to North Korea, witnessing both Kim Jong-Il's 60th birthday celebration and his death at age 69 in 2011. 

Her work sheds a new light on the understanding of the North Korean society by delving into its day-to-day life and provides unprecedented insights into the psychology of its ruling class, about whom the world knows very little.

Kim's novel, The Interpreter, was a finalist for a PEN Hemingway Prize, and her nonfiction has appeared in The New York Times, Harper's and The New York Review of Books. She is the author of the investigation Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite.

 

More profile about the speaker
Suki Kim | Speaker | TED.com