TED2014
David Chalmers: How do you explain consciousness?
David Chalmers: Kako objasniti svijest?
Filmed:
Readability: 4.6
2,876,790 views
Naša svijest je osnovni aspekt našeg postojanja, kaže filozof David Chalmers: "Ne postoji ništa o čemu posjedujemo znanje direktnije... ali u isto vrijeme to je najmisteriozniji fenomen u svemiru. Dijeli neke od načina kako možemo razmišljati o filmu koji igra u našim glavama.
David Chalmers - Philosopher
In his work, David Chalmers explores the “hard problem of consciousness" -- the quest to explain our subjective experience. Full bio
In his work, David Chalmers explores the “hard problem of consciousness" -- the quest to explain our subjective experience. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Right now
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Upravo sada
00:14
you have a movie playing inside your head.
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u vašoj glavi vrti se film.
00:17
It's an amazing multi-track movie.
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To je izuzetan više-tračni film.
00:20
It has 3D vision and surround sound
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Snimljen je u 3D tehnici s vrhunskim zvukom
00:23
for what you're seeing and hearing right now,
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za ono što sada gledate i slušate,
00:26
but that's just the start of it.
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ali to je samo početak toga.
00:28
Your movie has smell and taste and touch.
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Vaš film se može i onjušiti, okusiti i dotaknuti.
00:33
It has a sense of your body,
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Osjeća ono što i vaše tijelo osjeća,
00:36
pain, hunger, orgasms.
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bol, glad, orgazme.
00:40
It has emotions,
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Ima i emocije,
00:42
anger and happiness.
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ljutnju i sreću.
00:46
It has memories, like scenes from your childhood
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Ima i sjećanja, poput scena iz vašeg djetinjstva
00:50
playing before you.
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koje se odvijaju pred vašim očima.
00:52
And it has this constant voiceover narrative
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Popraćeno je konstantnom glasovnom naracijom
00:57
in your stream of conscious thinking.
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usklađenom s tokom vašeg razmišljanja.
01:01
At the heart of this movie is you
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U samom se srcu filma nalazite vi
01:06
experiencing all this directly.
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koji ovo izravno doživljavate.
01:11
This movie is your stream of consciousness,
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Ovaj film je vaš tok svijesti,
01:16
the subject of experience
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subjekt iskustva
01:18
of the mind and the world.
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uma i svijeta.
01:23
Consciousness is one of the fundamental facts
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Svijest je jedna od fundamentalnih činjenica
01:25
of human existence.
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ljudske egzistencije.
01:27
Each of us is conscious.
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Svatko od nas ima svijest.
01:30
We all have our own inner movie,
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Svatko od nas ima svoj nutarnji film,
01:33
you and you and you.
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vi, i vi, i vi.
01:36
There's nothing we know about more directly.
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Ne postoji ništa što nećemo
spoznati ovako izravno.
spoznati ovako izravno.
01:39
At least, I know about my consciousness directly.
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Barem sam ja izravno svjestan svoje svijesti.
01:43
I can't be certain that you guys are conscious.
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Ne mogu biti siguran da i vi posjedujete svijest.
01:47
Consciousness also is what makes life worth living.
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Svijest je također ono što daje vrijednost životu.
01:50
If we weren't conscious, nothing in our lives
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Da nismo svjesni, ničem se u našim životima
01:54
would have meaning or value.
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ne bi mogao pripisati
neki smisao ili vrijednost.
neki smisao ili vrijednost.
01:57
But at the same time, it's the most
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No u isto vrijeme, svijest je jedna od
01:58
mysterious phenomenon in the universe.
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najmisterioznijih fenomena u svijetu.
02:03
Why are we conscious?
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Zašto imamo svijest?
02:06
Why do we have these inner movies?
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Zašto posjedujemo ove nutarnje filmove?
02:07
Why aren't we just robots
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Zašto nismo samo roboti
02:10
who process all this input,
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koji obrađuju input,
02:12
produce all that output,
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proizvode output,
02:14
without experiencing the inner movie at all?
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bez iskustva ovog nutarnjeg filma?
02:18
Right now, nobody knows the answers
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Trenutno nitko ne zna odgovore
02:20
to those questions.
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na ova pitanja.
02:22
I'm going to suggest that to integrate consciousness
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Da bismo integrirali svijest
02:26
into science, some radical ideas may be needed.
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u znanost, potrebne su nam neke radikalne ideje.
02:31
Some people say a science of consciousness
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Neki ljudi kažu da znanost o svijesti
02:33
is impossible.
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nije moguća.
02:35
Science, by its nature, is objective.
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Znanost je po prirodi objektivna.
02:39
Consciousness, by its nature, is subjective.
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Svijest je po prirodi subjektivna.
02:43
So there can never be a science of consciousness.
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Tako da nikad ne može biti znanosti svijesti.
02:47
For much of the 20th century, that view held sway.
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Većinu 20. stoljeća to je gledište prevladavalo.
02:50
Psychologists studied behavior objectively,
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Psiholozi su proučavali ponašanje objektivno,
02:54
neuroscientists studied the brain objectively,
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neuroznanstvenici su proučavali mozak objektivno,
02:58
and nobody even mentioned consciousness.
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i nitko nije spominjao svijest.
03:02
Even 30 years ago, when TED got started,
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Čak i prije 30 godina, kada je TED započeo,
03:04
there was very little scientific work
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bilo je malo znanstvenog rada
03:07
on consciousness.
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vezanog uz svijest.
03:09
Now, about 20 years ago,
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Sad, prije nekih 20 godina,
03:11
all that began to change.
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sve se to počelo mijenjati.
03:14
Neuroscientists like Francis Crick
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Neuroznanstvenici kao Francis Crick
03:17
and physicists like Roger Penrose
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i fizičari kao Roger Penrose
03:20
said now is the time for science
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rekli su da je sada vrijeme da se znanost
03:22
to attack consciousness.
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uhvati u koštac sa sviješću.
03:25
And since then, there's been a real explosion,
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I od tada, postoji prava eksplozija,
03:27
a flowering of scientific work
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procvat znanstvenog rada
03:29
on consciousness.
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na svijesti.
03:31
And this work has been wonderful. It's been great.
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I ovaj rad je bio predivan. Bilo je odlično.
03:33
But it also has some fundamental
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Ali također ima neka osnovna
03:35
limitations so far.
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ograničenja.
03:39
The centerpiece
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Centralni dio
03:40
of the science of consciousness in recent years
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znanosti svijesti u posljednjim godinama
03:43
has been the search for correlations,
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je istraživanje korelacije,
03:45
correlations between certain areas of the brain
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korelacije između određenih područja mozga
03:49
and certain states of consciousness.
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i određenih stanja svijesti.
03:53
We saw some of this kind of work
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Vidjeli smo ovakav rad
03:54
from Nancy Kanwisher and the wonderful work
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od Nancy Kanwisher i prekrasan rad
03:55
she presented just a few minutes ago.
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koji je predstavila prije nekoliko minuta.
03:59
Now we understand much better, for example,
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Sada na primjer, puno bolje razumijemo
04:02
the kinds of brain areas that go along with
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područja mozga koja idu uz
04:05
the conscious experience of seeing faces
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svjesna iskustva viđenja lica
04:08
or of feeling pain
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ili osjećaja boli
04:11
or of feeling happy.
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ili osjećaja sreće.
04:14
But this is still a science of correlations.
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Ali ovo je i dalje znanost korelacije.
04:16
It's not a science of explanations.
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To nije znanost objašnjavanja.
04:20
We know that these brain areas
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Znamo da ova područja mozga
04:22
go along with certain kinds of conscious experience,
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idu zajedno sa određenim svjesnim iskustvima,
04:26
but we don't know why they do.
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ali ne znamo zašto to čine.
04:30
I like to put this by saying
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Volim to reći tako da
04:32
that this kind of work from neuroscience
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je ovaj način rada od neuroznanosti
04:36
is answering some of the questions
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daje neke odgovore na pitanja
04:37
we want answered about consciousness,
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koja želimo odgovoriti u svezi svijesti,
04:39
the questions about what certain brain areas do
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pitanja o tome što rade koja područja mozga
04:43
and what they correlate with.
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i s čime su povezana.
04:45
But in a certain sense, those are the easy problems.
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Ali u određenom smislu,
ovo su laki problemi.
ovo su laki problemi.
04:48
No knock on the neuroscientists.
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Bez uvrede neuroznanstvenicima.
04:51
There are no truly easy
problems with consciousness.
problems with consciousness.
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Ne postoje zaista laki problemi
vezani sa sviješću.
vezani sa sviješću.
04:53
But it doesn't address the real mystery
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Ali to ne odgovara na pravu misteriju
04:58
at the core of this subject:
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u srži ove teme:
05:00
why is it that all that physical processing in a brain
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zašto bi se svo to procesuiranje u mozgu
05:04
should be accompanied by consciousness at all?
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moralo pratiti sviješću?
05:07
Why is there this inner subjective movie?
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Zašto postoji ovaj nutarnji subjektivni film?
05:10
Right now, we don't really have a bead on that.
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Sada, nemamo ideje zašto je tako.
05:13
And you might say,
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I možete reći,
05:15
let's just give neuroscience a few years.
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dajmo neuroznanosti koju godinu.
05:19
It'll turn out to be another emergent phenomenon
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To će biti još jedan pojavni fenomen
05:23
like traffic jams, like hurricanes,
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kao što su zastoji u prometu, uragani,
05:28
like life, and we'll figure it out.
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život, i shvatit ćemo ga.
05:30
The classical cases of emergence
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Klasični slučajevi pojavljivanja
05:32
are all cases of emergent behavior,
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su svi slučajevi pojavnog ponašanja,
05:36
how a traffic jam behaves,
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kako se ponaša zastoj,
05:38
how a hurricane functions,
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kako funkcionira uragan,
05:40
how a living organism reproduces
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kako se živi organizam razmnožava
05:42
and adapts and metabolizes,
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i prilagođava i metabolizira,
05:45
all questions about objective functioning.
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sve pitanja o objektivnom funkcioniranju.
05:48
You could apply that to the human brain
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To možete primijeniti na ljudski mozak
05:51
in explaining some of the behaviors
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i objasniti neka od ponašanja
05:52
and the functions of the human brain
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i funkcija mozga
05:54
as emergent phenomena:
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kao pojavne fenomene:
05:55
how we walk, how we talk, how we play chess,
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kako hodamo, razgovaramo, igramo šah,
06:00
all these questions about behavior.
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sva ta pitanja o ponašanju.
06:02
But when it comes to consciousness,
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Ali kada dođemo do svijesti,
06:04
questions about behavior
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pitanja o ponašanju
06:06
are among the easy problems.
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su među jednostavnim problemima.
06:09
When it comes to the hard problem,
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Kada su u pitanju teški problemi,
06:10
that's the question of why is it
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pitanje je zašto
06:13
that all this behavior
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svo ovo ponašanje
06:14
is accompanied by subjective experience?
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prati tako subjektivno iskustvo?
06:17
And here, the standard paradigm
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I ovdje, standardna paradigma
06:19
of emergence,
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pojavnosti,
06:21
even the standard paradigms of neuroscience,
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čak i standardne paradigme neuroznanosti,
06:24
don't really, so far, have that much to say.
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nemaju, za sada, što za reći.
06:28
Now, I'm a scientific materialist at heart.
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Sad, ja sam znanstveni materijalist u srcu.
06:32
I want a scientific theory of consciousness
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Želim znanstvenu teoriju svijesti
06:36
that works,
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koja radi,
06:38
and for a long time, I banged my head
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i dugo vremena razbijao sam glavu
06:41
against the wall
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o zid
06:42
looking for a theory of consciousness
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tražeći teoriju svijesti
06:44
in purely physical terms
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u fizičkim uvjetima
06:46
that would work.
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koja bi radila.
06:47
But I eventually came to the conclusion
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No došao sam do zaključka
06:49
that that just didn't work for systematic reasons.
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da to nije radilo zbog sistematičkih razloga.
06:53
It's a long story,
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Duga je to priča,
06:55
but the core idea is just that what you get
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ali ideja u srži je da ono što dobijete
06:58
from purely reductionist explanations
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od redukcijskih objašnjenja
07:00
in physical terms, in brain-based terms,
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u fizičkim uvjetima, u uvjetima
koji se zasnivaju na mozgu
koji se zasnivaju na mozgu
07:03
is stories about the functioning of a system,
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su priče o funkcioniranju sustava,
07:05
its structure, its dynamics,
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strukturi, dinamici,
07:07
the behavior it produces,
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ponašanju koje stvara,
07:09
great for solving the easy problems —
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i odlično je za rješavanje lakih problema —
07:11
how we behave, how we function —
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kako se ponašamo, kako funkcioniramo —
ali kada se radi
o subjektivnom iskustvu —
o subjektivnom iskustvu —
07:14
but when it comes to subjective experience —
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07:17
why does all this feel like
something from the inside? —
something from the inside? —
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zašto se ovo čini kao nešto iznutra? —
07:21
that's something fundamentally new,
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to je nešto fundamentalno novo,
07:23
and it's always a further question.
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i uvijek je daljnje pitanje.
07:27
So I think we're at a kind of impasse here.
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Tako da mislim da se nalazimo u slijepoj ulici.
07:32
We've got this wonderful, great chain of explanation,
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Imamo ovaj divan, odličan lanac pojašnjavanja,
07:35
we're used to it, where physics explains chemistry,
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navikli smo na njega, gdje
fizika objašnjava kemiju,
fizika objašnjava kemiju,
07:39
chemistry explains biology,
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kemija biologiju,
07:42
biology explains parts of psychology.
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biologija objašnjava dio psihologije.
07:46
But consciousness
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No svijest
07:48
doesn't seem to fit into this picture.
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se ne uklapa u tu sliku.
07:50
On the one hand, it's a datum
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S jedne strane očito je
07:52
that we're conscious.
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da smo svjesni.
07:54
On the other hand, we don't know how
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S druge ne znamo kako
07:55
to accommodate it into our
scientific view of the world.
scientific view of the world.
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da to uklopimo u naš
znanstveni pogled na svijet.
znanstveni pogled na svijet.
07:59
So I think consciousness right now
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Tako da mislim da je svijest
08:01
is a kind of anomaly,
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neka vrsta anomalije,
08:04
one that we need to integrate
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koju trebamo integrirati
08:06
into our view of the world, but we don't yet see how.
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u naš pogled svijeta,
ali još ne vidimo kako.
ali još ne vidimo kako.
08:10
Faced with an anomaly like this,
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Suočeni s ovakvom anomalijom,
08:12
radical ideas may be needed,
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trebat ćemo radikalne ideje,
08:15
and I think that we may need one or two ideas
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i mislim da trebamo jednu ili dvije ideje
08:18
that initially seem crazy
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koje će se činiti ludima ispočetka
08:20
before we can come to grips with consciousness
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prije nego shvatimo svijest
08:23
scientifically.
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znanstveno.
08:25
Now, there are a few candidates
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Sad, imamo nekoliko kandidata
08:27
for what those crazy ideas might be.
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za te sulude ideje.
08:29
My friend Dan Dennett, who's here today, has one.
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Moj prijatelj Dan Dennet,
koji je danas tu, ima jednu.
koji je danas tu, ima jednu.
08:34
His crazy idea is that there is no hard problem
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Njegova luda ideja je
da ne postoji težak problem
da ne postoji težak problem
08:36
of consciousness.
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svijesti.
08:38
The whole idea of the inner subjective movie
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Cijela ideja ovog
nutarnjeg subjetkivnog filma
nutarnjeg subjetkivnog filma
08:41
involves a kind of illusion or confusion.
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uključuje nekakvu iluziju ili zbunjenost.
08:46
Actually, all we've got to do is explain
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Zapravo, sve što moramo je objasniti
08:48
the objective functions, the behaviors of the brain,
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objektivne funkcije, ponašanje mozga,
08:51
and then we've explained everything
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i onda smo sve objasnili
08:53
that needs to be explained.
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što je trebalo objasniti.
08:55
Well I say, more power to him.
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Svaka čast, kažem ja.
08:58
That's the kind of radical idea
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To je vrsta radikalne ideje
09:00
that we need to explore
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koju moramo istražiti
09:02
if you want to have a purely reductionist
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želite li imati redukcionističku
09:04
brain-based theory of consciousness.
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teoriju svijesti temeljenu na mozgu.
09:08
At the same time, for me and for many other people,
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2071
U isto vrijeme, za mene i mnoge druge ljude,
09:10
that view is a bit too close to simply
190
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1827
taj je pogled bio preblizu
09:12
denying the datum of consciousness
191
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2021
poricanju izvjesnosti svijesti
09:14
to be satisfactory.
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da bi zadovoljavao.
09:15
So I go in a different direction.
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Tako da sam otišao u drugi smjer.
09:18
In the time remaining,
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U preostalom vremenu,
09:19
I want to explore two crazy ideas
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2999
želim istražiti dvije lude ideje
09:22
that I think may have some promise.
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3717
za koje mislim da obećavaju.
09:26
The first crazy idea
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1620
Prva luda ideja
09:28
is that consciousness is fundamental.
198
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4625
je da je svijest osnova.
09:32
Physicists sometimes take
some aspects of the universe
some aspects of the universe
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2841
Fizičari ponekad uzmu neke aspekte svemira
09:35
as fundamental building blocks:
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2160
kao osnove za izgrađivanje:
09:37
space and time and mass.
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3749
prostor i vrijeme i masa.
09:41
They postulate fundamental laws governing them,
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3610
Oni postavljaju osnovne
zakone koji njima vladaju,
zakone koji njima vladaju,
09:45
like the laws of gravity or of quantum mechanics.
203
573270
3890
poput zakona gravitacije
ili kvantne mehanike.
09:49
These fundamental properties and laws
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2310
Ova osnovna svojstva i zakoni
09:51
aren't explained in terms of anything more basic.
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3217
nisu objašnjeni u uvjetima
nečeg jednostavnog.
nečeg jednostavnog.
09:54
Rather, they're taken as primitive,
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2740
Rađe, uzima ih se primitivnima,
09:57
and you build up the world from there.
207
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3379
i od toga se izgrađuje svijet.
10:00
Now sometimes, the list of fundamentals expands.
208
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5099
Ponekad se lista osnova proširi.
10:05
In the 19th century, Maxwell figured out
209
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2457
U 19. stoljeću, Maxwell je otkrio
10:08
that you can't explain electromagnetic phenomena
210
596362
3168
da ne možete objasniti
elektromagnetski fenomen
elektromagnetski fenomen
10:11
in terms of the existing fundamentals —
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2351
uz pomoć postojećih osnova —
10:13
space, time, mass, Newton's laws —
212
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3069
prostor, vrijeme, masa, Newtonovi zakoni —
10:16
so he postulated fundamental laws
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2571
tako da je postavio temeljne zakone
10:19
of electromagnetism
214
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1814
elektromagnetizma
10:21
and postulated electric charge
215
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2411
i utvrdio električni napon
10:23
as a fundamental element
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1768
kao temeljni element
10:25
that those laws govern.
217
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2959
kojim vladaju ti zakoni.
10:28
I think that's the situation we're in
218
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3283
Mislim da je to situacija
u kojoj se nalazimo
u kojoj se nalazimo
10:31
with consciousness.
219
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1610
sa svijesti.
10:33
If you can't explain consciousness
220
621366
2485
Ako ne možete objasniti svijest
10:35
in terms of the existing fundamentals —
221
623851
2418
u terminima postojećih osnova —
10:38
space, time, mass, charge —
222
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2671
prostor, vrijeme, masa, naboj —
10:40
then as a matter of logic,
you need to expand the list.
you need to expand the list.
223
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3430
onda je stvar logike
da morate proširiti listu.
da morate proširiti listu.
10:44
The natural thing to do is to postulate
224
632370
2476
Prirodna stvar je da postavite
10:46
consciousness itself as something fundamental,
225
634846
3256
svijest kao nešto osnovno,
10:50
a fundamental building block of nature.
226
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3032
osnovni gradivni blok prirode.
10:53
This doesn't mean you suddenly
can't do science with it.
can't do science with it.
227
641134
2968
To ne znači da ju iznenada
ne možete znanstveno proučavati.
ne možete znanstveno proučavati.
10:56
This opens up the way for you to do science with it.
228
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3598
Ovo otvara put za istraživanje.
10:59
What we then need is to study
229
647700
1904
Potom trebamo proučavati
11:01
the fundamental laws governing consciousness,
230
649604
2953
osnovne zakone koji vladaju sviješću,
11:04
the laws that connect consciousness
231
652557
2380
zakone koji povezuju svijest
11:06
to other fundamentals: space, time, mass,
232
654937
2801
s ostalim osnovama: prostorom, vremenom, masom,
11:09
physical processes.
233
657738
2936
fizičkim procesima.
11:12
Physicists sometimes say
234
660674
2182
Fizičari ponekad kažu
11:14
that we want fundamental laws so simple
235
662856
2880
da želimo tako jednostavne osnovne zakone
11:17
that we could write them on the front of a t-shirt.
236
665736
3802
da ih možemo pisati na majice.
11:21
Well I think something like that is the situation
237
669538
1721
Pa mislim da je takva situacija
11:23
we're in with consciousness.
238
671259
1868
u kojoj se nalazimo sa svijesti.
11:25
We want to find fundamental laws so simple
239
673127
2750
Želimo naći tako jednostavne osnovne zakone
11:27
we could write them on the front of a t-shirt.
240
675877
2087
da ih možemo pisati na majice.
11:29
We don't know what those laws are yet,
241
677964
1575
Ne znamo koji su to zakoni još,
11:31
but that's what we're after.
242
679539
4027
ali to tražimo.
11:35
The second crazy idea
243
683566
2417
Druga suluda ideja
11:37
is that consciousness might be universal.
244
685983
3478
je da je svijest možda univerzalna.
11:41
Every system might have some degree
245
689461
3061
Svaki sustav mogao bi imati neku razinu
11:44
of consciousness.
246
692522
3725
svijesti.
11:48
This view is sometimes called panpsychism:
247
696247
2961
Ovaj pogled nekad se zove panpsihizam:
11:51
pan for all, psych for mind,
248
699208
3002
pan za sve, psiha za um,
11:54
every system is conscious,
249
702210
1771
svaki sustav je svjestan,
11:55
not just humans, dogs, mice, flies,
250
703981
4247
ne samo ljudi, psi, miševi, mušice,
12:00
but even Rob Knight's microbes,
251
708228
2577
već i mikrobi Roba Knighta,
12:02
elementary particles.
252
710805
2187
elementarne čestice.
12:04
Even a photon has some degree of consciousness.
253
712992
2713
Čak i fotoni imaju neku razinu svijesti.
12:07
The idea is not that photons are intelligent
254
715705
3779
Ideja nije da su fotoni inteligentni
12:11
or thinking.
255
719484
1077
ili misle.
12:12
It's not that a photon
256
720561
1430
Nije da foton
12:13
is wracked with angst
257
721991
1445
opterećuje životna bol
12:15
because it's thinking, "Aww, I'm always
buzzing around near the speed of light.
buzzing around near the speed of light.
258
723436
3292
jer misli: "Ah, uvijek zujim
uokolo brzinom svjetlosti.
uokolo brzinom svjetlosti.
12:18
I never get to slow down and smell the roses."
259
726728
2992
Nikad ne usporim i pomirišem ruže."
12:21
No, not like that.
260
729720
2144
Ne, ne tako.
12:23
But the thought is maybe photons might have
261
731864
3048
Ali misao je možda da fotoni imaju
12:26
some element of raw, subjective feeling,
262
734912
2623
neki element sirovog, subjektivnog osjećanja,
12:29
some primitive precursor to consciousness.
263
737535
4152
neku primitivnu preteču svijesti.
12:33
This may sound a bit kooky to you.
264
741687
2854
Ovo vam može zvučati malo čudno.
12:36
I mean, why would anyone think such a crazy thing?
265
744541
2783
Mislim, zašto bi netko
mislio tako ludu stvar?
mislio tako ludu stvar?
12:39
Some motivation comes from the first crazy idea,
266
747324
3560
Dio motivacije dolazi
iz prve sulude ideje,
iz prve sulude ideje,
12:42
that consciousness is fundamental.
267
750884
2146
da je svijest fundamentalna
12:45
If it's fundamental, like space and time and mass,
268
753030
4375
Ako je fundamentalna,
kao prostor i vrijeme i masa,
kao prostor i vrijeme i masa,
12:49
it's natural to suppose that it might be universal too,
269
757405
2665
Prirodno je da bi i to moglo biti univerzalno,
12:52
the way they are.
270
760070
1900
kao što su one.
12:53
It's also worth noting that although the idea
271
761970
1949
Vrijedno je spomenuti da iako se ideja
12:55
seems counterintuitive to us,
272
763919
2024
možda nama čini kontraintuitivnom,
12:57
it's much less counterintuitive to people
273
765943
2744
mnogo je manje kontraintuitivna ljudima
13:00
from different cultures,
274
768687
1731
iz drugih kultura,
13:02
where the human mind is seen as much more
275
770418
1520
gdje je ljudski um viđen kao
13:03
continuous with nature.
276
771938
3072
povezaniji s prirodom.
13:07
A deeper motivation comes from the idea that
277
775010
3734
Dublja motivacija dolazi od ideje da
13:10
perhaps the most simple and powerful way
278
778744
2009
možda najjednostavniji i najsnažniji način
13:12
to find fundamental laws connecting consciousness
279
780753
2234
za pronalazak fundamentalnih zakona
koji vežu svijest
koji vežu svijest
13:14
to physical processing
280
782987
1980
s fizičkim procesima
13:16
is to link consciousness to information.
281
784967
3095
jest povezati svijest s informacijama.
13:20
Wherever there's information processing,
282
788062
2011
Gdje god postoji procesuiranje informacija,
13:22
there's consciousness.
283
790073
1065
postoji svijest.
13:23
Complex information processing, like in a human,
284
791138
2540
Procesuiranje složenih informacija,
kao kod ljudi,
kao kod ljudi,
13:25
complex consciousness.
285
793688
1532
složena svijest.
13:27
Simple information processing,
286
795220
2129
Procesuiranje jednostavnih informacija,
13:29
simple consciousness.
287
797349
1958
jednostavna svijest.
13:31
A really exciting thing is in recent years
288
799307
2331
Zaista uzbudljiva stvar posljednih godina
13:33
a neuroscientist, Giulio Tononi,
289
801638
3265
je da je neuroznanstvenik Giulio Tononi,
13:36
has taken this kind of theory
290
804903
1243
uzeo ovu teoriju
13:38
and developed it rigorously
291
806146
2075
i rigorozno je razvio
13:40
with a mathematical theory.
292
808221
1849
s matematičkom teorijom.
13:42
He has a mathematical measure
293
810070
1517
Ima matematičku mjeru
13:43
of information integration
294
811587
1730
za integraciju informacija
13:45
which he calls phi,
295
813317
1919
koju zove phi,
13:47
measuring the amount of information
296
815236
1607
mjereći količinu informacija
13:48
integrated in a system.
297
816843
1620
integriranu u sustav.
13:50
And he supposes that phi goes along
298
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2369
I pretpostavlja da phi ide zajedno
13:52
with consciousness.
299
820832
1438
sa sviješću
13:54
So in a human brain,
300
822270
1321
U ljudskom mozgu,
13:55
incredibly large amount of information integration,
301
823591
2519
iznimno velika količina integracije informacija,
13:58
high degree of phi,
302
826110
2034
visoka razina phija,
14:00
a whole lot of consciousness.
303
828144
1549
jako puno svijesti.
14:01
In a mouse, medium degree
of information integration,
of information integration,
304
829693
3693
Kod miša, umjerena količina
integracije informacija,
integracije informacija,
14:05
still pretty significant,
305
833386
1019
još uvijek značajna,
14:06
pretty serious amount of consciousness.
306
834405
2025
ozbiljna količina svijesti.
14:08
But as you go down to worms,
307
836430
2265
Ali kako idete niže prema crvima,
14:10
microbes, particles,
308
838695
3477
mikrobima, česticama,
14:14
the amount of phi falls off.
309
842172
1534
količina phija opada,
14:15
The amount of information integration falls off,
310
843706
2433
Količina integracije informacija opada,
14:18
but it's still non-zero.
311
846139
1448
no još uvijek nije nula.
14:19
On Tononi's theory,
312
847587
1939
Prema Tononijevoj teoriji,
14:21
there's still going to be a non-zero degree
313
849526
2207
još uvijek će svijest
14:23
of consciousness.
314
851733
1829
biti iznad nule.
14:25
In effect, he's proposing a fundamental law
315
853562
2539
U stvari, on predlaže fundamentalni zakon
14:28
of consciousness: high phi, high consciousness.
316
856101
3384
svijesti: visok phi, visoka svijest.
14:31
Now, I don't know if this theory is right,
317
859485
2622
Sad, ne znam da li je ova teorija točna,
14:34
but it's actually perhaps the leading theory right now
318
862107
3211
ali je trenutno vodeća teorija
14:37
in the science of consciousness,
319
865318
1386
u znanosti svijesti,
14:38
and it's been used to integrate a whole range
320
866704
2231
i koristi se kako bi
integrirala cijeli raspon
integrirala cijeli raspon
14:40
of scientific data,
321
868935
2387
znanstvenih podataka,
14:43
and it does have a nice property
that it is in fact simple enough
that it is in fact simple enough
322
871322
2243
a ima i zgodnu karakteristiku
da je toliko jednostavna
14:45
you can write it on the front of a t-shirt.
323
873565
3495
da je možete napisati na majicu.
14:49
Another final motivation is that
324
877060
2625
Još jedna završna motivacija je da
14:51
panpsychism might help us to integrate
325
879685
2051
panpsihizam može pomoći u integraciji
14:53
consciousness into the physical world.
326
881736
3214
svijesti u fizički svijet.
14:56
Physicists and philosophers have often observed
327
884950
3177
Fizičari i filozofi često su zaključili
15:00
that physics is curiously abstract.
328
888127
2441
da je fizika neobično abstraktna.
15:02
It describes the structure of reality
329
890568
2148
Opisuje strukturu stvarnosti
15:04
using a bunch of equations,
330
892716
2084
koristeći hrpu jednadžbi,
15:06
but it doesn't tell us about the reality
331
894800
3024
ali nam ne govori o stvarnosti
15:09
that underlies it.
332
897824
1568
koja je prožima.
15:11
As Stephen Hawking puts it,
333
899392
1897
Kako je to rekao Stephen Hawking,
15:13
what puts the fire into the equations?
334
901289
4054
što stavlja vatru u te jednadžbe?
15:17
Well, on the panpsychist view,
335
905343
2618
Pa, iz perspektive panpsihista,
15:19
you can leave the equations of physics as they are,
336
907961
2639
možete ostaviti jednadžbe
iz fizike kako jesu,
iz fizike kako jesu,
15:22
but you can take them to be describing
337
910600
1564
ali možete uzeti da opisuju
15:24
the flux of consciousness.
338
912164
1674
tijek svijesti.
15:25
That's what physics really is ultimately doing,
339
913838
2038
To je ono što u konačnici fizika čini,
15:27
describing the flux of consciousness.
340
915876
2329
opisuje tijek svijesti.
15:30
On this view, it's consciousness
341
918205
1653
Iz ovog pogleda, svijest je ta
15:31
that puts the fire into the equations.
342
919858
4246
koja stavlja vatru u jednadžbe.
15:36
On that view, consciousness doesn't dangle
343
924104
1660
Iz tog pogleda, svijest ne visi
15:37
outside the physical world
344
925764
1676
izvan fizičkog svijeta
15:39
as some kind of extra.
345
927440
1418
kao neki dodatak.
15:40
It's there right at its heart.
346
928858
3456
Ondje je, u srcu.
15:44
This view, I think, the panpsychist view,
347
932314
2874
Ovaj pogled, pogled panpsihista,
15:47
has the potential to transfigure our relationship
348
935188
3301
ima potencijal za transformiranje
našeg odnosa
našeg odnosa
15:50
to nature,
349
938489
1495
s prirodom,
15:51
and it may have some pretty serious social
350
939984
2235
i možda ima neke ozbiljne društvene
15:54
and ethical consequences.
351
942219
3693
i etičke posljedice.
15:57
Some of these may be counterintuitive.
352
945912
2159
Neke od ovih mogu biti kontraintuitivne.
16:00
I used to think I shouldn't eat anything
353
948071
3071
Nekad sam mislio da ne trebam jesti
ništa što je svjesno,
16:03
which is conscious,
354
951142
2462
16:05
so therefore I should be vegetarian.
355
953604
2604
tako da sam bio vegetarijanac.
16:08
Now, if you're a panpsychist and you take that view,
356
956208
2567
Sad, ako ste panpsihist i gledate tako,
16:10
you're going to go very hungry.
357
958775
2730
bit ćete vrlo gladni.
16:13
So I think when you think about it,
358
961505
1288
Tako da mislim da
16:14
this tends to transfigure your views,
359
962793
2167
to može promijeniti vaš pogled,
16:16
whereas what matters for ethical purposes
360
964960
2243
gdje ono što vrijedi za etičke svrhe
16:19
and moral considerations,
361
967203
1274
i moralna gledišta
16:20
not so much the fact of consciousness,
362
968477
3077
ne vrijedi toliko za činjenice svijesti,
16:23
but the degree and the complexity of consciousness.
363
971554
3956
već za razinu i složenost svijesti.
16:27
It's also natural to ask about consciousness
364
975510
1938
Prirodno je pitati za svijest
16:29
in other systems, like computers.
365
977448
3050
u drugim sustavima, kao računalima.
16:32
What about the artificially intelligent system
366
980498
1789
Što je sa sustavom
s umjetnom inteligencijom
s umjetnom inteligencijom
16:34
in the movie "Her," Samantha?
367
982287
3442
u filmu "Ona," Samantha?
16:37
Is she conscious?
368
985729
1400
Je li ona svjesna?
16:39
Well, if you take the informational,
369
987129
1431
Ako uzmete informacijski,
16:40
panpsychist view,
370
988560
1180
panpsihički pogled,
16:41
she certainly has complicated information processing
371
989740
3471
ona zasigurno ima
procesuiranje složenih informacija
procesuiranje složenih informacija
16:45
and integration,
372
993211
1421
i integraciju,
16:46
so the answer is very likely yes, she is conscious.
373
994632
2667
tako da je odgovor vjerojatno da,
svjesna je.
svjesna je.
16:49
If that's right, it raises pretty serious
374
997299
2938
Ako je to točno, to diže ozbiljno
16:52
ethical issues about both the ethics
375
1000237
2365
etičko pitanje vezano uz etiku
16:54
of developing intelligent computer systems
376
1002602
3521
razvoja inteligentnih računalnih sustava
16:58
and the ethics of turning them off.
377
1006123
2736
i etiku gašenja tih sustava.
17:00
Finally, you might ask about the consciousness
378
1008859
2500
Napokon, možete pitati o svijesti
17:03
of whole groups,
379
1011359
1882
čitavih grupa,
17:05
the planet.
380
1013241
1837
planeta.
17:07
Does Canada have its own consciousness?
381
1015078
2923
Ima li Kanada vlastitu svijest?
17:10
Or at a more local level,
382
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Ili na lokalnoj razini,
17:12
does an integrated group
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da li integrirana grupa,
17:13
like the audience at a TED conference,
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kao publika na TED konferenciji,
17:15
are we right now having a
collective TED consciousness,
collective TED consciousness,
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jesmo li mi sada
dio kolektivne TED svijesti,
dio kolektivne TED svijesti,
17:19
an inner movie
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nutarnjeg filma
17:20
for this collective TED group
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ove kolektivne TED grupe
17:23
which is distinct from the inner movies
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koji se razlikuje od nutarnjeg filma
17:24
of each of our parts?
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svakoga od nas?
17:26
I don't know the answer to that question,
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2155
Ne znam odgovor na to pitanje,
17:28
but I think it's at least one
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ali mislim da je to bar jedno
17:29
worth taking seriously.
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vrijedno ozbiljno shvatiti.
17:32
Okay, so this panpsychist vision,
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Ok, ovaj je panpsihički pogled,
17:34
it is a radical one,
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radikalan pogled,
17:36
and I don't know that it's correct.
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i ne znam je li točan.
17:38
I'm actually more confident about
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1853
Uvjereniji sam
17:40
the first crazy idea,
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u prvu ludu ideju,
17:41
that consciousness is fundamental,
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da je svijest fundamentalna,
17:44
than about the second one,
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nego u drugu,
17:45
that it's universal.
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da je univerzalna.
17:48
I mean, the view raises any number of questions,
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2078
Mislim, taj pogled priziva mnoštvo pitanja,
17:50
has any number of challenges,
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ima mnoštvo izazova,
17:51
like how do those little bits
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kao kako ti mali komadići
17:53
of consciousness add up
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svijesti daju
17:54
to the kind of complex consciousness
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složenu svijest
17:57
we know and love.
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kakvu poznajemo i volimo.
17:59
If we can answer those questions,
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Ako možemo odgovoriti na ta pitanja,
18:00
then I think we're going to be well on our way
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tada mislim da ćemo biti na putu
18:02
to a serious theory of consciousness.
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3087
do ozbiljne teorije svijesti.
18:05
If not, well, this is the hardest problem perhaps
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3388
Ako ne, pa, onda je to najteži problem
18:08
in science and philosophy.
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1844
u znanosti i filozofiji.
18:10
We can't expect to solve it overnight.
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Ne možemo očekivati
da ćemo ga riješiti preko noći.
da ćemo ga riješiti preko noći.
18:14
But I do think we're going to figure it out eventually.
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Ali mislim da ćemo kad tad to shvatiti.
18:17
Understanding consciousness is a real key, I think,
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Razumijevanje svijesti je
pravi ključ, ja mislim,
18:20
both to understanding the universe
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kako za shvaćanje svemira
18:23
and to understanding ourselves.
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tako i za shvaćanje nas samih.
18:25
It may just take the right crazy idea.
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Možda nam treba prava luda ideja.
18:28
Thank you.
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1991
Hvala vam.
18:30
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David Chalmers - PhilosopherIn his work, David Chalmers explores the “hard problem of consciousness" -- the quest to explain our subjective experience.
Why you should listen
David Chalmers is a philosopher at the Australian National University and New York University. He works in philosophy of mind and in related areas of philosophy and cognitive science. While he's especially known for his theories on consciousness, he's also interested (and has extensively published) in all sorts of other issues in the foundations of cognitive science, the philosophy of language, metaphysics and epistemology.
Chalmers placed the "hard problem" of consciousness firmly on the philosophical map. He famously challenges materialist conceptions of mind, arguing for an "explanatory gap" between our brains’ physical properties and our minds’ qualia. Elsewhere he has championed the notion of the "extended mind," which argues that the mind is not confined to skin or skull, but plausibly may extend beyond them.
David Chalmers | Speaker | TED.com