ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Robert Palmer - Campaign leader, Global Witness
Robert Palmer investigates how the financial system facilitates corruption and other crimes.

Why you should listen

Robert Palmer is the Banks and Corruption Campaign Leader for Global Witness, whose founder Charmian Gooch won the TED Prize in 2014. The Nobel-prize nominated organization is dedicated to breaking the links between natural resources, conflict and corruption.

Palmer has led a number of high profile investigations. These include exposing how corrupt Nigerian politicians used British high street banks to move bribe money; uncovering which global banks held $65 billion of Libyan government funds; and organizing an undercover sting to show how corrupt officials can move suspect funds into the U.S. with the help of New York lawyers.

Palmer is an expert in the global anti-money laundering framework and helps to develop practical policy solutions to improve its effectiveness. He helps to lead a global coalition of civil society groups campaigning for an end to the abuse of the financial system by corrupt officials. This has led to new transparency laws in the UK and EU to tackle anonymously owned companies.

More profile about the speaker
Robert Palmer | Speaker | TED.com
Global Witness

Robert Palmer: The Panama Papers exposed a huge global problem. What's next?

Robert Palmer: Panamski dokumenti so razkrili ogromen svetovni problem. Kaj pa zdaj?

Filmed:
1,097,225 views

3. aprila 2016 smo bili priča največjemu razkritju podatkov v zgodovini. Panamski dokumenti so izpostavili bogate in močne ljudi, ki skrivajo ogromne vsote denarja v davčnih oazah. A kaj vse to pomeni? Vprašali smo Roberta Palmerja iz organizacije Global Witness.
- Campaign leader, Global Witness
Robert Palmer investigates how the financial system facilitates corruption and other crimes. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:13
[On AprilAprila 3, 2016 we saw
the largestnajvečji datapodatkov leakpuščanje in historyzgodovina.]
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[3. aprila 2016 smo bili priča največjemu
razkritju podatkov v zgodovini.]
00:18
[The PanamaPanama PapersDokumentov exposedizpostavljeni
richbogat and powerfulmočno people]
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[Panamski dokumenti so razkrinkali
bogate in močne ljudi,]
00:20
[hidingskrivanje vastogromno amountszneskov of moneydenar
in offshorena morju accountsračunov.]
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[ki so v davčnih oazah
skrivali ogromne vsote denarja.]
00:23
[What does this mean?]
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[Kaj to pomeni?]
00:27
[We calledpozval RobertRobert PalmerPalmer
of GlobalGlobalno WitnessPriča to explainpojasnite.]
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[Za razlago smo poklicali
Roberta Palmerja iz Global Witness.]
00:32
This weekteden, there have been
a wholeceloto slewUbi and delugepotop of storieszgodbe
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Ta teden so nas preplavile zgodbe,
00:37
comingprihajajo out from the leakpuščanje
of 11 millionmilijonov documentsdokumente
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ki izhajajo iz razkritja
11 milijonov dokumentov
00:41
from a Panamanian-basedNa podlagi Panamske lawzakon firmtrdno
calledpozval MossackMossack FonsecaFonseca.
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odvetniške družbe Mossack Fonseca
s sedežem v Panami.
00:45
The releasesprostitev of these papersdokumenti from PanamaPanama
liftsdvigala the veiltančico on a tinymajhen piecekos
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Objava teh panamskih dokumentov
odgrinja tančico majhnega dela
00:51
of the secretiveskrivnostna offshorena morju worldsvet.
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skrivnostnega sveta davčnih oaz.
00:53
We get an insightvpogled into how clientsstranke
and banksbanke and lawyersodvetniki
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Pokaže nam, kako stranke,
banke in odvetniki
00:58
go to companiespodjetja like MossackMossack FonsecaFonseca
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podjetjem, kakršno je Mossack Fonseca,
01:01
and say, "OK, we want
an anonymousanonimno companypodjetje,
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naročijo: "Želimo imeti anonimno podjetje,
01:03
can you give us one?"
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nam ga lahko odprete?"
01:04
So you actuallydejansko get to see the emailse-pošto,
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Zdaj lahko vidimo elektronska sporočila,
izmenjave sporočil,
01:06
you get to see the exchangesizmenjave of messagessporočil,
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1963
01:08
you get to see the mechanicsmehanika
of how this worksdela,
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vidimo, kako to deluje,
01:11
how this operatesdeluje.
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kako funkcionira.
01:13
Now, this has alreadyže startedzačel
to have prettylepa immediatetakoj repercussionsposledice.
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In to je imelo kar takojšnje posledice.
01:17
The PrimePredsednik MinisterMinister
of IcelandIslandija has resignedodstopil.
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Islandski premier je odstopil.
01:20
We'veSmo alsotudi had newsnovice
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Izvedeli smo tudi,
01:21
that an allyzaveznik of the brutalbrutalno
SyrianSirski dictatordiktator BasharKlara Al-AssadAl-Assad
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da ima neki zaveznik sirskega
diktatorja Bašarja Al Asada
01:26
has alsotudi got offshorena morju companiespodjetja.
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podjetja v davčnih oazah.
01:28
There's been allegationsobtožbe
of a $2 billionmilijardo moneydenar trailpot
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Obstajajo navedbe o
dveh milijardah dolarjev,
01:34
that leadsvodi back to PresidentPredsednik
VladimirVladimir PutinPutin of RussiaRusija
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povezanih z ruskim predsednikom
Vladimirjem Putinom
01:38
viapreko his closeblizu childhoodotroštvo friendprijatelj,
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preko tesnega prijatelja iz otroštva,
01:40
who happensse zgodi to be a topna vrh cellistviolončelist.
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ki je tudi priznan čelist.
01:42
And there will be a lot
of richbogat individualsposamezniki out there
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In veliko bogatih posameznikov
01:45
and othersdrugi who will be nervousživčni
about the nextNaslednji setnastavite of storieszgodbe
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in drugih ljudi bo živčnih
zaradi naslednjega dela zgodb
01:49
and the nextNaslednji setnastavite of leakedpušča documentsdokumente.
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in prihodnjih razkritij.
01:52
Now, this soundszvoki like the plotparcela
of a spyvohun thrillerTriler
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To se sliši kot zgodba za vohunski triler
01:56
or a JohnJohn GrishamGrisham novelroman.
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ali roman Johna Grishama.
01:58
It seemsZdi se very distantoddaljena
from you, me, ordinaryvsakdanji people.
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Zdi se daleč od vas, mene,
od navadnih ljudi.
02:02
Why should we carenego about this?
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Zakaj nas to sploh zanima?
02:04
But the truthresnica is that if richbogat
and powerfulmočno individualsposamezniki
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Dejstvo je, da če lahko bogati
in močni posamezniki
02:09
are ablesposoben to keep theirnjihovi moneydenar offshorena morju
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denar hranijo v davčnih oazah
02:11
and not payplačati the taxesdavke that they should,
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ter se izmikajo davkom,
02:14
it meanssredstva that there is lessmanj moneydenar
for vitalvitalnega publicjavnost servicesstoritev
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to pomeni manj denarja za
ključne javne storitve,
02:18
like healthcareskrb za zdravje, educationizobraževanje, roadsceste.
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kot so zdravstvo, izobraževanje, ceste.
02:21
And that affectsvpliva all of us.
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To pa vpliva na vse nas.
02:24
Now, for my organizationorganizacija GlobalGlobalno WitnessPriča,
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Za mojo organizacijo Global Witness
02:26
this exposizpostavljanjeé has been phenomenalfenomenalno.
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je bilo to razkritje fenomenalno.
02:30
We have the world'ssvetovno mediamediji
and politicalpolitično leadersvoditelji
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Svetovni mediji in politični voditelji
02:35
talkinggovoriti about how individualsposamezniki
can use offshorena morju secrecytajnost
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govorijo o tem, kako lahko ljudje
izkoriščajo tajnost oaz
02:40
to hideskriti and disguisepreobleki theirnjihovi assetssredstva --
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in skrivajo svoje premoženje -
02:42
something we have been talkinggovoriti about
and exposingizpostavi for a decadedesetletje.
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o tem mi govorimo že desetletje.
02:47
Now, I think a lot of people find
this entirecelotno worldsvet bafflingprevara and confusingzmedeno,
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Veliko ljudem se zdi ta svet
begajoč in zapleten,
02:52
and hardtežko to understandrazumeti how
this sortRazvrsti of offshorena morju worldsvet worksdela.
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težko je razumeti,
kako deluje svet davčnih oaz.
02:56
I like to think of it a bitbit
like a Russianruščina dolllutka.
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Jaz na to gledam kot na rusko babuško.
02:59
So you can have one companypodjetje
stackedzložene insideznotraj anotherdrugo companypodjetje,
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Obstaja podjetje znotraj drugega podjetja,
03:02
stackedzložene insideznotraj anotherdrugo companypodjetje,
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ki je znotraj še enega podjetja,
03:05
makingizdelavo it almostskoraj impossiblenemogoče
to really understandrazumeti
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zato je skoraj nemogoče razumeti,
03:09
who is behindzadaj these structuresstrukture.
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kdo stoji za temi strukturami.
03:11
It can be very difficulttežko
for lawzakon enforcementizvrševanje
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Za pravosodje ali za davkarijo,
03:14
or taxdavka authoritiesorgani oblasti,
journalistsnovinarji, civilcivilno societydružbo
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za novinarje in civilno družbo je težko
03:17
to really understandrazumeti what's going on.
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razumeti, kaj se dogaja.
03:20
I alsotudi think it's interestingzanimivo
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Zanimivo se mi tudi zdi,
03:21
that there's been lessmanj coveragepokritost
of this issuetežava in the UnitedVelika StatesDržave.
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da ZDA te zgodbe niso veliko pokrivale.
03:25
And that's perhapsmorda because
some prominentvidno US people
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Morda zato, ker v dokumentih ni bilo
03:28
just haven'tne figuredfigured
in this exposizpostavljanjeé, in this scandalškandal.
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nekaterih pomembnih Američanov.
03:33
Now, that's not because
there are no richbogat AmericansAmeričani
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Pa ne zato, ker bogati Američani
03:37
who are stashingstashing theirnjihovi assetssredstva offshorena morju.
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ne bi skrivali premoženja v oazah.
03:40
It's just because of the way
in whichki offshorena morju worksdela,
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Zaradi načina,
na katerega delujejo davčne oaze,
03:43
MossackMossack FonsecaFonseca has fewermanj
AmericanAmeriški clientsstranke.
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ima Mossack Fonseca pač
manj ameriških strank.
03:47
I think if we saw leakspuščanje
from the CaymanKajmanski IslandsOtoki
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Mislim da če bi šlo za razkritja
s Kajmanskih otokov
03:50
or even from DelawareDelaware
or WyomingWyoming or NevadaNevada,
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ali držav Delaware, Wyoming ali Nevada,
03:54
you would see manyveliko more casesprimerov
and examplesprimeri linkingpovezovanje back to AmericansAmeričani.
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bi bilo veliko več primerov
povezanih z Američani.
04:00
In factdejstvo, in a numberštevilka of US statesdržave
you need lessmanj informationinformacije,
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Pravzaprav v veliko zveznih držav ZDA
potrebujete manj podatkov,
04:06
you need to providezagotoviti lessmanj
informationinformacije to get a companypodjetje
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da bi odprli podjetje,
04:10
than you do to get a libraryknjižnica cardkartica.
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kot jih potrebujete
za včlanitev v knjižnico.
04:13
That sortRazvrsti of secrecytajnost in AmericaAmerika
has alloweddovoljeno employeeszaposleni of schoolšola districtsokolišev
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Takšna tajnost v ZDA
omogoča uslužbencem šol,
04:19
to rippočivaj v miru off schoolchildrenšolskih otrok.
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da goljufajo učence.
04:20
It has alloweddovoljeno scammersscammers
to rippočivaj v miru off vulnerableranljivi investorsvlagateljev.
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Goljufi lahko prevarajo
ranljive vlagatelje.
04:26
This is the sortRazvrsti of behaviorvedenje
that affectsvpliva all of us.
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Tako obnašanje vpliva na vse nas.
04:30
Now, at GlobalGlobalno WitnessPriča,
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Pri Global Witness
04:32
we wanted to see what this
actuallydejansko lookedpogledal like in practicepraksa.
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smo hoteli pogledati,
kako to izgleda v praksi.
04:35
How does this actuallydejansko work?
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Kako pravzaprav deluje?
04:37
So what we did
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Tole smo storili:
04:38
is we sentposlano in an undercoverpod krinko investigatorraziskovalec
to 13 ManhattanManhattan lawzakon firmspodjetja.
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skrivnega preiskovalca smo poslali
v trinajst odvetniških družb na Manhattnu.
04:45
Our investigatorraziskovalec posedpredstavljajo
as an AfricanAfriške ministerminister
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Izdajal se je za ministra iz Afrike,
04:49
who wanted to movePremakni se suspectsumite fundssredstva
into the UnitedVelika StatesDržave
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ki je sumljiv denar hotel prenesti v ZDA
04:53
to buykupiti a househiša, a yachtjahte, a jetjet.
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in kupiti hišo, jahto, letalo.
04:57
Now, what was trulyresnično shockingšokantno
was that all but one of those lawyersodvetniki
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Šokiralo nas je,
da so vsi razen enega odvetnika
05:02
providedzagotovljena our investigatorraziskovalec with suggestionspredloge
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preiskovalcu dali predloge,
05:06
on how to movePremakni se those suspectsumite fundssredstva.
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kako prenesti sumljiv denar.
05:08
These were all preliminarypredhodno meetingssrečanja,
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To so bila začetna srečanja
05:10
and nonenič of the lawyersodvetniki
tookvzel us on as a clientodjemalec
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in noben odvetnik nas ni
vzel za svojo stranko
05:13
and of courseseveda no moneydenar movedpreselil handsroke,
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in seveda ni bilo nobene
finančne transakcije,
05:15
but it really showskaže the problemproblem
with the systemsistem.
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a stvar je pokazala na težavo v sistemu.
05:18
It's alsotudi importantpomembno
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Pomembno je tudi,
05:20
to not just think about this
as individualposameznik casesprimerov.
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da na to ne gledamo le kot na
posamezne primere.
05:24
This is not just about
an individualposameznik lawyerodvetnik
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Ne gre le za posameznega odvetnika,
05:26
who'skdo je spokengovori to our undercoverpod krinko
investigatorraziskovalec and providedzagotovljena suggestionspredloge.
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ki je govoril s preiskovalcem
in mu dal predloge.
05:30
It's not just about
a particularzlasti seniorstarejši politicianpolitik
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Ne gre le za pomembnega politika,
05:33
who'skdo je been caughtujet up in a scandalškandal.
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ki se je ujel v škandal.
05:34
This is about how a systemsistem worksdela,
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Gre za to, kako sistem deluje,
05:37
that entrenchesentrenches corruptionkorupcija,
taxdavka evasionutaj, povertyrevščina and instabilitynestabilnost.
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kako vzdržuje korupcijo,
izogibanje davkom, revščino, nestabilnost.
05:43
And in orderred to tacklereševanje this,
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Da bi se spopadli s tem,
05:45
we need to changesprememba the gameigro.
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moramo spremeniti igro.
05:47
We need to changesprememba the rulespravila of the gameigro
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Spremeniti moramo pravila igre,
05:50
to make this sortRazvrsti of behaviorvedenje hardertežje.
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da bo tako obnašanje težje.
05:52
This maylahko seemzdi se like doomDoom and gloomMrak,
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Morda se sliši brezupno,
05:54
like there's nothing we can do about it,
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kot da ne moremo storiti nič,
05:56
like nothing has ever changedspremenjeno,
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kot da se nič ne spremeni,
05:58
like there will always be richbogat
and powerfulmočno individualsposamezniki.
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kot da bodo vedno obstajali bogati
in močni posamezniki.
06:01
But as a naturalnaravno optimistoptimist,
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Kot optimist po naravi
06:04
I do see that we are startingzačetek
to get some changesprememba.
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pa vidim, da se nekaj spreminja.
06:07
Over the last couplepar of yearslet,
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Zadnjih nekaj let
06:09
we'vesmo seenvidel a realresnično pushpush towardsproti
greatervečje transparencypreglednost
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se večajo zahteve po transparentnosti
06:13
when it comesprihaja to companypodjetje ownershiplastništvo.
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pri lastništvu podjetij.
06:15
This issuetežava was put on the politicalpolitično agendadnevni red
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Zadevo je na politični dnevni red
06:18
by the UKVELIKA BRITANIJA PrimePredsednik MinisterMinister DavidDavid CameronCameron
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postavil David Cameron,
premier Velike Britanije,
06:20
at a bigvelik G8 SummitVrh that was heldpotekala
in NorthernSeverni IrelandIrska in 2013.
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na vrhu G8 leta 2013 na Severnem Irskem.
06:25
And sinceod then, the EuropeanEvropski UnionUnije
is going to be creatingustvarjanje
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Odtlej Evropska unija ustanavlja
06:30
centralcentralno registersregistri at a nationalnacionalno levelravni
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centralne registre na ravni držav.
06:32
of who really ownslastnik and controlskontrole
companiespodjetja acrossčez EuropeEvropi.
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Tam piše, kdo je v resnici lastnik
in nadzornik podjetij po Evropi.
06:35
One of the things that is sadžalostno is that,
actuallydejansko, the US is laggingzaostajajo v razvoju behindzadaj.
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Žalostno je, da ZDA v tem zaostajajo.
06:40
There's bipartisandvostransko legislationlegalizacija
that had been introducedpredstavljen
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Dvostrankarska zakonodaja je bila vložena
06:43
in the HouseHiša and the SenateSenat,
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v kongres in senat,
06:45
but it isn't makingizdelavo as much progressnapredek
as we'dBili bi like to see.
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a ne napreduje, kot bi morala.
06:48
So we'dBili bi really want to see
the PanamaPanama leakspuščanje,
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Res bi radi, da bi panamski dokumenti,
06:51
this hugeogromno peekpokukati into the offshorena morju worldsvet,
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ta vpogled v svet davčnih oaz,
06:55
be used as a way of openingodprtje up
in the US and around the worldsvet.
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pomagali k večji odprtosti
ZDA in ostalega sveta.
07:00
For us at GlobalGlobalno WitnessPriča,
this is a momenttrenutek for changesprememba.
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Za Global Witness
je to trenutek spremembe.
07:05
We need ordinaryvsakdanji people to get angryjezen
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Navadni ljudje se morajo razjeziti
07:09
at the way in whichki people
can hideskriti theirnjihovi identityidentiteta
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na to, kako drugi lahko
skrivajo svojo identiteto
07:12
behindzadaj secretskrivnost companiespodjetja.
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za tajnimi podjetji.
07:14
We need businessposlovanje leadersvoditelji
to standstojalo up and say,
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Poslovneži se morajo oglasiti
ter povedati,
07:18
"SecrecySkrivnosti like this is not
good for businessposlovanje."
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da taka tajnost ni dobra za posel.
07:21
We need politicalpolitično leadersvoditelji
to recognizeprepoznati the problemproblem,
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Politični voditelji
morajo prepoznati problem
07:26
and to commitzavezati to changingzamenjati the lawzakon
to openodprto up this sortRazvrsti of secrecytajnost.
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in se zavezati k spremembam zakonov,
da bi razkrili tovrstno tajnost.
07:31
TogetherSkupaj, we can endkonec the secrecytajnost
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Skupaj lahko končamo to tajnost,
07:34
that is currentlytrenutno allowingki dovoljuje taxdavka evasionutaj,
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ki omogoča izogibanje davkom,
07:38
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korupcijo, pranje denarja.
Translated by Klavdija Cernilogar
Reviewed by Matej Divjak

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Robert Palmer - Campaign leader, Global Witness
Robert Palmer investigates how the financial system facilitates corruption and other crimes.

Why you should listen

Robert Palmer is the Banks and Corruption Campaign Leader for Global Witness, whose founder Charmian Gooch won the TED Prize in 2014. The Nobel-prize nominated organization is dedicated to breaking the links between natural resources, conflict and corruption.

Palmer has led a number of high profile investigations. These include exposing how corrupt Nigerian politicians used British high street banks to move bribe money; uncovering which global banks held $65 billion of Libyan government funds; and organizing an undercover sting to show how corrupt officials can move suspect funds into the U.S. with the help of New York lawyers.

Palmer is an expert in the global anti-money laundering framework and helps to develop practical policy solutions to improve its effectiveness. He helps to lead a global coalition of civil society groups campaigning for an end to the abuse of the financial system by corrupt officials. This has led to new transparency laws in the UK and EU to tackle anonymously owned companies.

More profile about the speaker
Robert Palmer | Speaker | TED.com