TEDWomen 2016
Peggy Orenstein: What young women believe about their own sexual pleasure
佩吉·奥伦斯坦: 年轻女性是如何看待自己的性快感
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为何女孩子觉得自己有做爱的权利，却不能感受到做爱的乐趣？作者佩吉·奥伦斯坦用了3年的时间，采访了许多15到20岁的女孩儿，询问她们的性经历以及对性的态度。作者在片中表示，她们在性行为中都缺失乐趣，并呼吁我们消除“高潮差异”。她提出的解决方法是，从女孩子们小的时候就与她们开诚布公的讨论性、身体、快感和亲密。
Peggy Orenstein - Journalist, author
In her groundbreaking book Girls & Sex, Peggy Orenstein explores the changing landscape of modern sexual expectations and its troubling impact on adolescents and young women. Full bio
In her groundbreaking book Girls & Sex, Peggy Orenstein explores the changing landscape of modern sexual expectations and its troubling impact on adolescents and young women. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
For several years now,
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近几年来，
00:14
we've been engaged in a national debate
about sexual assault on campus.
about sexual assault on campus.
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校园性侵掀起了一场全国大讨论。
00:19
No question --
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毫无疑问，
00:20
it's crucial that young people
understand the ground rules for consent,
understand the ground rules for consent,
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教年轻人懂得获取对方的同意
是至关重要的，
是至关重要的，
但往往关于性的讨论
也就到此为止了。
也就到此为止了。
00:25
but that's where the conversation
about sex is ending.
about sex is ending.
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00:29
And in that vacuum of information
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在这片信息的真空中，
00:31
the media and the Internet --
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媒体和互联网，
00:33
that new digital street corner --
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以及各类新电子媒体，
00:34
are educating our kids for us.
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正在替代我们来教育孩子。
00:38
If we truly want young people
to engage safely, ethically,
to engage safely, ethically,
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如果我们真心希望
年轻人能获得安全的、道德的
年轻人能获得安全的、道德的
00:43
and yes, enjoyably,
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当然，令人愉快的性经历，
00:46
it's time to have open honest discussion
about what happens after "yes,"
about what happens after "yes,"
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我们就应该开始开诚布公地
讨论说“愿意”之后会发生的事情，
讨论说“愿意”之后会发生的事情，
00:52
and that includes breaking
the biggest taboo of all
the biggest taboo of all
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包括打破那个最大的禁忌，
00:55
and talking to young people
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就是告诉年轻人
00:57
about women's capacity for
and entitlement to sexual pleasure.
and entitlement to sexual pleasure.
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关于女人获得性快感的能力和权力。
01:03
Yeah.
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没错。
01:04
(Applause)
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（掌声）
01:05
Come on, ladies.
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难道不是吗，女士们~
01:06
(Applause)
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（掌声）
01:08
I spent three years
talking to girls ages 15 to 20
talking to girls ages 15 to 20
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我花了3年的时间，
跟15到20岁的女孩
跟15到20岁的女孩
01:12
about their attitudes
and experience of sex.
and experience of sex.
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采访她们对于性的态度以及性经历。
01:15
And what I found was
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我发现，
01:17
that while young women may feel
entitled to engage in sexual behavior,
entitled to engage in sexual behavior,
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尽管年轻女性可能觉得自己
有权进行性行为，
有权进行性行为，
01:21
they don't necessarily
feel entitled to enjoy it.
feel entitled to enjoy it.
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但她们并不都认为自己有权享受其中。
01:25
Take this sophomore
at the Ivy League college
at the Ivy League college
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一位常春藤学校的大二女生
01:27
who told me,
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曾经告诉我，
01:28
"I come from a long line
of smart, strong women.
of smart, strong women.
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“我来自一个有很多聪明、
坚强女性的家族。
坚强女性的家族。
我的奶奶脾气火爆，
01:31
My grandmother was a firecracker,
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01:34
my mom is a professional,
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我的妈妈是一名职业女性，
01:36
my sister and I are loud,
and that's our form of feminine power."
and that's our form of feminine power."
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我姐姐和我都是大嗓门，
这是我们家女性力量的表现。”
这是我们家女性力量的表现。”
01:40
She then proceeded
to describe her sex life to me:
to describe her sex life to me:
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然后她开始讲述自己的性经历，
01:43
a series of one-off hookups,
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就是一次次的一夜情，
01:45
starting when she was 13,
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从她13岁就开始了，
01:46
that were ...
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而这些经历，
01:48
not especially responsible,
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不是特别有责任感，
不是特别有相互性，
01:50
not especially reciprocal
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01:52
and not especially enjoyable.
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也不是特别有愉悦感。
01:55
She shrugged.
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她耸耸肩，说
01:56
"I guess we girls are just socialized
to be these docile creatures
to be these docile creatures
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“我觉得我们女孩子
就是被社会教化得温顺驯良
就是被社会教化得温顺驯良
02:00
who don't express our wants or needs."
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从不表达自己的想法和需求。”
02:03
"Wait a minute," I replied.
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“慢着，”我说，
02:05
"Didn't you just tell me
what a smart, strong woman you are?"
what a smart, strong woman you are?"
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“你刚刚不是告诉我
你是一名聪明、坚强的女性吗？”
你是一名聪明、坚强的女性吗？”
02:09
She hemmed and hawed.
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她支支吾吾着。
02:11
"I guess," she finally said,
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“也许吧，”她最后说，
02:12
"no one told me that that smart,
strong image applies to sex."
strong image applies to sex."
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“没人告诉我
聪明和坚强还适用于性。”
聪明和坚强还适用于性。”
02:17
I should probably say right up top
that despite the hype,
that despite the hype,
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我应事先说明一点，
并不是想媒体宣传的那样，
并不是想媒体宣传的那样，
02:20
teenagers are not engaging in intercourse
more often or at a younger age
more often or at a younger age
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跟25年前相比，现在的青少年
并没有进行更频繁性行为，
并没有进行更频繁性行为，
02:25
than they were 25 years ago.
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或者开始得更早。
02:28
They are, however,
engaging in other behavior.
engaging in other behavior.
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但是，他们有了新的行为。
02:31
And when we ignore that,
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如果我们忽视这一点，
02:33
when we label that as "not sex,"
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如果认为这些新行为“不是性行为”，
02:36
that opens the door
to risky behavior and disrespect.
to risky behavior and disrespect.
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就有可能导致危险和不尊重。
02:41
That's particularly true of oral sex,
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尤其对于口交而言更是如此，
02:43
which teenagers consider
to be less intimate than intercourse.
to be less intimate than intercourse.
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年轻人认为口交没有性行为那么直接。
02:47
Girls would tell me, "it's no big deal,"
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姑娘们跟我说，“这没什么啊”，
02:50
like they'd all read
the same instruction manual --
the same instruction manual --
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似乎她们看的是同一份操作指南，
02:53
at least if boys
were on the receiving end.
were on the receiving end.
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至少当对象是男孩的时候。
02:57
Young women have lots
of reasons for participating.
of reasons for participating.
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年轻女性有很多理由来参与口交。
03:00
It made them feel desired;
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让她们觉得自己被需要。
03:02
it was a way to boost social status.
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是提高社交地位的一种方式。
03:04
Sometimes, it was a way
to get out of an uncomfortable situation.
to get out of an uncomfortable situation.
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有时候，口交还是一种
摆脱尴尬处境的方式。
摆脱尴尬处境的方式。
03:08
As a freshman at a West Coast
college said to me,
college said to me,
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西海岸大学的一名大一学生告诉我，
03:11
"A girl will give a guy a blow job
at the end of the night
at the end of the night
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“女孩最后可能会选择给男孩口交，
03:14
because she doesn't
want to have sex with him,
want to have sex with him,
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因为她不想跟他上床，
03:16
and he expects to be satisfied.
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而这个男孩又有需求。
03:18
So, if I want him to leave
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因此，如果我想摆脱他，
03:20
and I don't want anything to happen ... "
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又不想跟他上床的话……”
03:24
I heard so many stories
of girls performing one-sided oral sex
of girls performing one-sided oral sex
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我听过太多故事说
女生做单方面的口交，
女生做单方面的口交，
03:28
that I started asking,
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我不禁要问，
03:30
"What if every time
you were alone with a guy,
you were alone with a guy,
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“如果每一次你跟一个男的在一起，
03:33
he told you to get him
a glass of water from the kitchen,
a glass of water from the kitchen,
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他让你从厨房给他拿一杯水，
03:36
and he never got you a glass of water --
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而他从不为你拿，
03:39
or if he did, it was like ...
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又或者他拿过一次，却感觉像
03:43
'you want me to uh ...?'"
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“你是不是想让我……”
03:45
You know, totally begrudging.
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感觉像在求他一样。
03:48
You wouldn't stand for it.
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你能受得了吗？
03:50
But it wasn't always
that boys didn't want to.
that boys didn't want to.
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但话说回来，有时候并不是男孩不想。
03:53
It was that girls didn't want them to.
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而是女孩不让。
03:56
Girls expressed a sense of shame
around their genitals.
around their genitals.
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女孩们往往对自己的
生殖器有一种羞耻感。
生殖器有一种羞耻感。
03:59
A sense that they were
simultaneously icky and sacred.
simultaneously icky and sacred.
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觉得它即恶心又神圣。
04:04
Women's feelings about their genitals
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女性对于自己生殖器的感觉
04:06
have been directly linked
to their enjoyment of sex.
to their enjoyment of sex.
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直接关系到她们的性快感。
04:10
Yet, Debby Herbenick,
a researcher at Indiana University,
a researcher at Indiana University,
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黛比·赫本尼克，
来自印第安纳大学的一名学者，
来自印第安纳大学的一名学者，
04:13
believes that girls' genital
self-image is under siege,
self-image is under siege,
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认为女孩子生殖器的形象
正被多方批判，
正被多方批判，
04:18
with more pressure than ever
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并面对着前所未有的压力，
04:20
to see them as unacceptable
in their natural state.
in their natural state.
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普遍表示无法接受
其自然状态。
其自然状态。
04:24
According to research,
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研究结果显示，
04:25
about three-quarters of college women
remove their pubic hair -- all of it --
remove their pubic hair -- all of it --
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大约有四分之三的大学女生
会剃阴毛，全部剃光，
会剃阴毛，全部剃光，
04:30
at least on occasion,
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至少会偶尔为之，
04:31
and more than half do so regularly.
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超过一半的人会定期这么做。
04:35
Girls would tell me that hair removal
made them feel cleaner,
made them feel cleaner,
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女孩们告诉我，剃掉阴毛
让她们觉得变干净，
让她们觉得变干净，
04:39
that it was a personal choice.
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并且是一种个人选择。
04:42
Though, I kind of wondered
if left alone on a desert island,
if left alone on a desert island,
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我不禁在想，如果她们流落荒岛，
04:47
if this was how they would
choose to spend their time.
choose to spend their time.
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她们还会不会如此安排自己的时间。
04:50
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:51
And when I pushed further,
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我继续追问下去，
04:53
a darker motivation emerged:
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一个更加可怕的动机出现了：
04:55
avoiding humiliation.
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避免被羞辱。
04:57
"Guys act like they
would be disgusted by it,"
would be disgusted by it,"
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“男人们表现出他们觉得阴毛很恶心，”
05:00
one young woman told me.
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一个年轻姑娘告诉我。
05:02
"No one wants to be
talked about like that."
talked about like that."
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“没人愿意被这么议论。”
05:06
The rising pubic hair removal
reminded me of the 1920s,
reminded me of the 1920s,
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越来越多的人剃掉阴毛，
让我想起了20年代，
让我想起了20年代，
女性开始定期刮腋毛和腿毛。
05:09
when women first started regularly
shaving their armpits and their legs.
shaving their armpits and their legs.
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05:14
That's when flapper dresses
came into style,
came into style,
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那时候直筒连衣裙开始流行，
05:16
and women's limbs were suddenly visible,
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女性的胳膊和腿开始暴露，
05:19
open to public scrutiny.
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大家可以随意检视。
05:21
There's a way that I think
that this too is a sign.
that this too is a sign.
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在我看来这也是一种征兆。
05:24
That a girl's most intimate part
is open to public scrutiny,
is open to public scrutiny,
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女孩最私密的部分
开始可以被人窥察，
开始可以被人窥察，
05:29
open to critique,
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任人评论，
05:31
to becoming more about
how it looks to someone else
how it looks to someone else
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别人的看法变得越来越重要，
05:34
than how it feels to her.
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甚至超过自己的看法。
05:38
The shaving trend has sparked
another rise in labiaplasty.
another rise in labiaplasty.
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刮毛的趋势
还引发了阴唇整形术的盛行。
还引发了阴唇整形术的盛行。
05:42
Labiaplasty, which is the trimming
of the inner and outer labia,
of the inner and outer labia,
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所谓阴唇整形术，
就是对内外阴进行整形修饰，
就是对内外阴进行整形修饰，
05:47
is the fastest-growing cosmetic
surgery among teenage girls.
surgery among teenage girls.
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并是在十几岁的女孩中
增长率最快的整形手术。
增长率最快的整形手术。
05:53
It rose 80 percent between 2014 and 2015,
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从2014到2015年间增长了80%，
05:57
and whereas girls under 18 comprise
two percent of all cosmetic surgeries,
two percent of all cosmetic surgeries,
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18岁以下的女孩
占所有类型整形手术的2%，
占所有类型整形手术的2%，
06:01
they are five percent of labiaplasty.
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其中5%是阴唇整形术。
06:05
The most sought-after look, incidentally,
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顺便提一句，
最受欢迎的一种样式：
最受欢迎的一种样式：
外阴像紧闭的蛤壳，
06:07
in which the outer labia
appear fused like a clam shell,
appear fused like a clam shell,
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06:11
is called ...
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名字叫做……
06:13
wait for it ...
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你都想象不到……
06:15
"The Barbie."
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“芭比娃娃”。
06:16
(Groan)
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（惊呼）
06:18
I trust I don't have to tell you
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我觉得在座各位都很清楚，
06:20
that Barbie is a) made of plastic
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芭比娃娃，第一，是塑料做的，
06:23
and b) has no genitalia.
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第二，根本没有生殖器。
06:26
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
06:28
The labiaplasty trend
has become so worrisome
has become so worrisome
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外阴整形术的发展趋势
如此令人担忧，
如此令人担忧，
06:31
that the American College
of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
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以致于美国产科和妇科学会
06:34
has issued a statement on the procedure,
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发表了一份针对它的声明，
06:37
which is rarely medically indicated,
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指出它在医疗上应用很少，
06:39
has not been proven safe
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缺乏安全性，
06:41
and whose side effects
include scarring, numbness, pain
include scarring, numbness, pain
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带来的副作用有：
疤痕、麻木感、疼痛
疤痕、麻木感、疼痛
06:47
and diminished sexual sensation.
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性敏感度降低。
06:50
Now, admittedly,
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当然，
06:52
and blessedly,
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幸运的是，
06:53
the number of girls involved
is still quite small,
is still quite small,
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参与女孩还为数不多，
06:57
but you could see them
as canaries in a coal mine,
as canaries in a coal mine,
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但你可以将她们视为一种警示，
07:00
telling us something important
about the way girls see their bodies.
about the way girls see their bodies.
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警示我们来关注
女孩如何看待自己的身体。
女孩如何看待自己的身体。
07:05
Sara McClellan,
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莎拉·麦克莱兰，
07:07
a psychologist
at the University of Michigan,
at the University of Michigan,
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来自密歇根大学的心理学家，
07:09
coined what is my favorite phrase ever
in talking about all of this:
in talking about all of this:
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用一句我最喜欢的表述
来概括这一切：
来概括这一切：
07:15
"Intimate justice."
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“亲密的正义”。
07:18
That's the idea that sex has political,
as well as personal implications,
as well as personal implications,
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它表明，性行为除了跟个人有关外，
还拥有政治意义，
还拥有政治意义，
07:22
just like, who does
the dishes in your house,
the dishes in your house,
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就像你家谁负责刷盘子，
07:25
or who vacuums the rug.
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谁负责吸地毯。
07:27
And it raises similar
issues about inequality,
issues about inequality,
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它会引发各类问题，
像不平等，
像不平等，
07:31
about economic disparity,
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经济差异，
07:33
violence,
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暴力，
07:34
physical and mental health.
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身体和心理健康。
07:37
Intimate justice asks us to consider
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亲密的正义要求我们去思考，
07:40
who is entitled
to engage in an experience.
to engage in an experience.
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谁有权在性体验中拥有主动权？
07:43
Who is entitled to enjoy it?
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谁有权享受性行为？
07:46
Who is the primary beneficiary?
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谁是主要受益人？
07:49
And how does each partner
define "good enough"?
define "good enough"?
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参与者如何来定义“足够好”？
07:53
Honestly, I think those questions
are tricky and sometimes traumatic
are tricky and sometimes traumatic
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我知道，这些问题很难回答，
有些时候甚至令成年女性
有些时候甚至令成年女性
07:58
for adult women to confront,
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都感到难以面对，
08:01
but when we're talking about girls,
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但当我们在谈论女孩子们的时候，
08:03
I just kept coming back to the idea
that their early sexual experience
that their early sexual experience
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我总是会想，
她们早期的性经历
她们早期的性经历
08:08
shouldn't have to be
something that they get over.
something that they get over.
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不应该让她们不堪回首。
08:13
In her work,
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麦克莱兰的研究发现
08:14
McClellan found that young women
were more likely than young men
were more likely than young men
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跟年轻男性相比，
年轻女性更倾向于
年轻女性更倾向于
08:18
to use their partner's pleasure
as a measure of their satisfaction.
as a measure of their satisfaction.
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用对方的愉悦度
来衡量自己的满意度。
来衡量自己的满意度。
08:23
So they'd say things like,
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她们会说，
08:24
"If he's sexually satisfied,
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“如果他满足了，
08:26
then I'm sexually satisfied."
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那么我也就满足了。”
08:28
Young men were more likely to measure
their satisfaction by their own orgasm.
their satisfaction by their own orgasm.
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而年轻男性更倾向于
用自己的性高潮来衡量自己的满意度。
用自己的性高潮来衡量自己的满意度。
08:34
Young women also defined
bad sex differently.
bad sex differently.
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年轻女性对糟糕的性经历
的定义也有所不同。
的定义也有所不同。
08:39
In the largest ever survey
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有史以来，最大型的，
08:41
ever conducted
on American sexual behavior,
on American sexual behavior,
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关于美国人性行为的调查中，
08:44
they reported pain
in their sexual encounters
in their sexual encounters
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年轻女性表示，在她们的性经历中，
08:48
30 percent of the time.
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超过30%的时间会感到疼痛。
08:51
They also used words like "depressing,"
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她们还用到了诸如“沮丧”，
08:55
"humiliating,"
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“羞耻”，
08:56
"degrading."
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“屈辱”这样的词汇。
08:58
The young men never used that language.
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而年轻男性从未如此描述过。
09:02
So when young women
report sexual satisfaction levels
report sexual satisfaction levels
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如果年轻女性
在描述自己的性满意度时，
在描述自己的性满意度时，
09:05
that are equal to
or greater than young men's --
or greater than young men's --
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跟年轻男性相当甚至更高，
09:09
and they do in research --
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——在研究结果中确实如此——
09:11
that can be deceptive.
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其实并不属实。
09:13
If a girl goes into an encounter
hoping that it won't hurt,
hoping that it won't hurt,
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如果一个女孩在做爱前
希望自己不会痛，
希望自己不会痛，
09:17
wanting to feel close to her partner
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想跟自己的伴侣感觉更亲密，
09:19
and expecting him to have an orgasm,
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希望他能达到性高潮，
09:22
she'll be satisfied
if those criteria are met.
if those criteria are met.
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如果以上几点都达到了，
那这个姑娘也就心满意足了。
那这个姑娘也就心满意足了。
09:25
And there's nothing wrong with wanting
to feel close to your partner,
to feel close to your partner,
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想跟自己的伴侣感觉更亲密，
这没有错，
这没有错，
09:28
or wanting him to be happy,
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想让他快乐也是对的，
09:29
and orgasm isn't the only
measure of an experience ...
measure of an experience ...
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性高潮也不是评价
一次性经历的唯一标准……
一次性经历的唯一标准……
09:33
but absence of pain --
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但是只求不疼……
09:35
that's a very low bar
for your own sexual fulfillment.
for your own sexual fulfillment.
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这对于性满足来说标准有点太低了。
09:41
Listening to all of this
and thinking about it,
and thinking about it,
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听到的这些话，令我思索，
我意识到我们可能对美国女孩
09:43
I began to realize that we performed
a kind of psychological clitoridectomy
a kind of psychological clitoridectomy
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进行了精神上的阴蒂切除术。
09:48
on American girls.
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09:50
Starting in infancy,
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从婴儿时期就开始了，
09:51
parents of baby boys are more likely
to name all their body parts,
to name all their body parts,
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男孩的父母更愿意
把所有身体部位都取个名字，
把所有身体部位都取个名字，
09:55
at least they'll say,
"here's your pee-pee."
"here's your pee-pee."
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至少也会说，“这是你的小弟弟”。
09:58
Parents of baby girls
go right from navel to knees,
go right from navel to knees,
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而女孩的父母会从肚脐直接跳到膝盖，
10:01
and they leave this whole
situation in here unnamed.
situation in here unnamed.
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把中间的部分完全忽略不计。
10:04
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
10:06
There's no better way
to make something unspeakable
to make something unspeakable
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于是这一部分就成为了
不可谈论之事，
不可谈论之事，
10:09
than not to name it.
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因为它连名字都没有。
10:12
Then kids go into
their puberty education classes
their puberty education classes
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后来孩子们上了青春期教育课，
10:14
and they learn that boys
have erections and ejaculations,
have erections and ejaculations,
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知道了男孩子有勃起和射精，
10:18
and girls have ...
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而女孩子呢……
10:20
periods and unwanted pregnancy.
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有月经和意外怀孕。
10:24
And they see that internal diagram
of a woman's reproductive system --
of a woman's reproductive system --
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他们看到女性生殖系统的内部示意图，
10:27
you know, the one that looks
kind of like a steer head --
kind of like a steer head --
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就是那个看起来像方向盘的东西，
10:30
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
10:34
And it always grays out between the legs.
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双腿之间的部分永远都是灰色。
10:37
So we never say vulva,
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我们从不说外阴，
10:39
we certainly never say clitoris.
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也从不说阴蒂。
10:42
No surprise,
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毫不奇怪，
10:43
fewer than half
of teenage girls age 14 to 17
of teenage girls age 14 to 17
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14-17岁的女孩，只有不到一半
10:46
have ever masturbated.
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曾经手淫过。
10:49
And then they go
into their partnered experience
into their partnered experience
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之后她们开始跟别人发生性行为
10:52
and we expect that somehow
they'll think sex is about them,
they'll think sex is about them,
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而我们居然奢望，她们
会认为性是关于自身的，
会认为性是关于自身的，
10:55
that they'll be able to articulate
their needs, their desires, their limits.
their needs, their desires, their limits.
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并且她们能够表达自己的
需求，渴望和底线。
需求，渴望和底线。
11:01
It's unrealistic.
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这是多么的不现实。
11:04
Here's something, though.
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但也有例外。
11:06
Girls' investment
in their partner's pleasure remains
in their partner's pleasure remains
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女孩子们对于伴侣快感的投入
11:09
regardless of the gender of the partner.
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跟伴侣的性别没有关系。
11:12
So in same-sex encounters,
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因此在同性性行为中，
11:14
the orgasm gap disappears.
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高潮的差异消失了。
11:18
And young women climax
at the same rate as men.
at the same rate as men.
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年轻女性达到性高潮
的比例跟男性一样了。
的比例跟男性一样了。
11:22
Lesbian and bisexual girls would tell me
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同性恋和双性恋的女孩告诉我，
11:24
that they felt liberated
to get off the script --
to get off the script --
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她们感觉破除了陈规，
11:27
free to create an encounter
that worked for them.
that worked for them.
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能自由选择令自己快乐的性方式。
11:31
Gay girls also challenged
the idea of first intercourse
the idea of first intercourse
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同性恋女孩并不认为
第一次性行为，
第一次性行为，
11:35
as the definition of virginity.
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就定义了贞洁。
11:37
Not because intercourse isn't a big deal,
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并不是说性交无关紧要，
11:39
but it's worth questioning
why we consider this one act,
why we consider this one act,
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而是说这一问题值得思考，
为什么我们要将这一行为，
为什么我们要将这一行为，
11:44
which most girls associate
with discomfort or pain,
with discomfort or pain,
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大多数女孩都感到不适
甚至痛苦的这一行为，
甚至痛苦的这一行为，
11:46
to be the line in the sand
of sexual adulthood --
of sexual adulthood --
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视为性成年的标志 --
11:50
so much more meaningful,
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应该远比此有意义，
11:51
so much more transformative
than anything else.
than anything else.
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远比此有蜕变性。
11:55
And it's worth considering
how this is serving girls;
how this is serving girls;
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值得思考的是，
这个概念是如何影响女孩子的；
这个概念是如何影响女孩子的；
11:59
whether it's keeping them
safer from disease,
safer from disease,
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能否保护她们不染病，
12:02
coercion, betrayal, assault.
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不受威胁，不遭背叛，不被攻击。
12:05
Whether it's encouraging
mutuality and caring;
mutuality and caring;
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能否促进互动，增进关爱，
12:09
what it means about the way
they see other sex acts;
they see other sex acts;
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她们如何看待其他性行为，
12:13
whether it's giving them more control over
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能否让她们在今后的性经历中
12:15
and joy in their experience,
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更有控制权，更享受，
12:17
and what it means about gay teens,
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对于青年同性恋来说意味着什么，
12:20
who can have multiple sex partners
without heterosexual intercourse.
without heterosexual intercourse.
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他们可以拥有多位性伴侣，
却不与异性发生关系。
却不与异性发生关系。
12:25
So I asked a gay girl that I met,
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我问过一位同性恋女孩，
12:28
"How'd you know
you weren't a virgin anymore?"
you weren't a virgin anymore?"
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“你是怎么知道自己不再是处女的？”
12:31
She said she had to Google it.
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她说她是在谷歌上搜的答案。
12:33
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
12:35
And Google wasn't sure.
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谷歌其实也拿不准。
12:37
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
12:39
She finally decided
that she wasn't a virgin anymore
that she wasn't a virgin anymore
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她最后宣告自己处女时代的结束，
12:42
after she'd had
her first orgasm with a partner.
her first orgasm with a partner.
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是在她与一位伴侣
拥有了第一次性高潮之后。
拥有了第一次性高潮之后。
12:45
And I thought --
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我当时想，
12:47
whoa.
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哇哦。
12:49
What if just for a second
253
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我们是不是从没想过，
12:51
we imagined that was the definition?
254
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这才是正确的定义？
12:55
Again, not because
intercourse isn't a big deal --
intercourse isn't a big deal --
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再次强调，并不是说
性交没什么大不了，
性交没什么大不了，
12:57
of course it is --
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它当然很重要，
12:59
but it isn't the only big deal,
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但它并不是唯一重要的事情，
13:02
and rather than thinking about sex
as a race to a goal,
as a race to a goal,
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不再把性行为想像成一场赛跑，
13:06
this helps us reconceptualize it
as a pool of experiences
as a pool of experiences
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这会帮助我们将性行为
重新理解为众多体验的结合
重新理解为众多体验的结合
13:11
that include warmth, affection, arousal,
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包括温暖，喜爱，冲动
13:15
desire, touch, intimacy.
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欲望，触摸，亲密。
13:19
And it's worth asking young people:
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我们应该问问年轻人，
13:21
who's really the more sexually
experienced person?
experienced person?
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什么样的人更富有性经验？
13:25
The one who makes out
with a partner for three hours
with a partner for three hours
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是那些愿意花3个小时与伴侣互动，
13:28
and experiments with sensual
tension and communication,
tension and communication,
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体验感官刺激，进行交流沟通的人？
13:33
or the one who gets wasted at a party
and hooks up with a random
and hooks up with a random
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还是那些在聚会上流连，
喝醉后随便找一个人，
喝醉后随便找一个人，
13:36
in order to dump their "virginity"
before they get to college?
before they get to college?
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仅仅为了在上大学之前
跟自己的“处女时代”告别的人？
跟自己的“处女时代”告别的人？
13:41
The only way that shift
in thinking can happen though
in thinking can happen though
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想要带来改变，唯一的办法就是
13:44
is if we talk to young people
more about sex --
more about sex --
269
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跟年轻人多讨论关于性的问题，
13:48
if we normalize those discussions,
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把这种讨论变得正常，
13:51
integrating them into everyday life,
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融入日常生活，
13:54
talking about those intimate acts
in a different way --
in a different way --
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换一种方式来谈论这种亲密的行为，
13:57
the way we mostly have changed
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其实我们之前做到过，
14:00
in the way that we talk
about women in the public realm.
about women in the public realm.
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2640
我们改变了在公共场合
谈论女性的方式。
谈论女性的方式。
14:03
Consider a survey
of 300 randomly chosen girls
of 300 randomly chosen girls
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我们分别在荷兰和美国的一所大学里，
14:08
from a Dutch and an American university,
276
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随机抽取300个女生进行了调查，
14:10
two similar universities,
277
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2所相似的大学，
14:12
talking about their early
experience of sex.
experience of sex.
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调查关于她们早年的性经历。
14:16
The Dutch girls embodied everything
we say we want from our girls.
we say we want from our girls.
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4936
荷兰姑娘们表现出了我们想要的一切。
14:21
They had fewer negative consequences,
280
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1936
她们所承受的负面后果更少，
14:23
like disease, pregnancy, regret --
281
851200
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像疾病、怀孕、后悔等，
14:26
more positive outcomes
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更多的是正面的结果，
14:28
like being able to communicate
with their partner,
with their partner,
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像跟自己的伴侣自如的交流，
14:30
who they said they knew very well;
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因为他们彼此熟知，
14:32
preparing for the experience responsibly;
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会负责任的为性行为做准备，
14:35
enjoying themselves.
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享受这一过程。
14:37
What was their secret?
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她们的秘诀是什么？
14:39
The Dutch girls said
that their doctors, teachers and parents
that their doctors, teachers and parents
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荷兰姑娘们告诉我，
医生、老师和父母会开诚布公的
医生、老师和父母会开诚布公的
14:44
talked to them candidly,
289
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跟她们讨论，
14:45
from an early age,
290
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从很小的时候就开始，
14:47
about sex, pleasure
and the importance of mutual trust.
and the importance of mutual trust.
291
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讨论性、快感和互相信任的重要性。
14:53
What's more,
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而与此同时，
14:54
while American parents weren't necessarily
less comfortable talking about sex,
less comfortable talking about sex,
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毫无必要的，美国的父母们
会觉得谈论性很尴尬，
会觉得谈论性很尴尬，
14:59
we tend to frame those conversations
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我们会让这样的谈话
15:02
entirely in terms or risk and danger,
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充斥着“冒险”和“危险”这样的字眼，
15:06
whereas Dutch parents talk
about balancing responsibility and joy.
about balancing responsibility and joy.
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而荷兰的父母们会谈到
平衡“责任”和“欢乐”。
平衡“责任”和“欢乐”。
15:12
I have to tell you,
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坦率地说，
15:13
as a parent myself,
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作为母亲，
15:15
that hit me hard,
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我被深深震撼了，
15:17
because I know,
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因为我知道，
15:19
had I not delved into that research,
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如果我没有参与这次研究，
15:22
I would have talked to my own child
about contraception,
about contraception,
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我会跟自己的孩子讨论避孕，
15:26
about disease protection,
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讨论疾病预防，
15:27
about consent because I'm a modern parent,
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谈论自愿原则，
因为我是一名现代母亲，
因为我是一名现代母亲，
15:30
and I would have thought ...
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然后我就会觉得，
15:34
job well done.
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嗯，我已经做到了。
15:36
Now I know that's not enough.
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现在我明白这还远远不够。
15:39
I also know what I hope for for our girls.
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我清楚了我希望姑娘们能够得到什么。
15:43
I want them to see sexuality
as a source of self-knowledge,
as a source of self-knowledge,
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我希望她们将性能力
看成自我认知、
看成自我认知、
15:48
creativity and communication,
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创造力和交流的来源，
15:50
despite its potential risks.
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而不仅仅看到它潜在的危险。
15:53
I want them to be able
to revel in their bodies' sensuality
to revel in their bodies' sensuality
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我希望她们能尽情享受感官愉悦，
15:56
without being reduced to it.
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而不是降低它。
15:59
I want them to be able
to ask for what they want in bed,
to ask for what they want in bed,
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我希望她们能尽情要求
想在床上得到的一切，
想在床上得到的一切，
16:02
and to get it.
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并且如愿以偿。
16:04
I want them to be safe
from unwanted pregnancy,
from unwanted pregnancy,
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我希望她们远离意外怀孕，
16:08
disease,
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远离疾病，
16:09
cruelty,
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远离虐待，
16:10
dehumanization,
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远离非人化，
16:12
violence.
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远离暴力。
16:14
If they are assaulted,
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如果她们遭到侵犯，
16:15
I want them to have recourse
from their schools,
from their schools,
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我希望她们能从学校，
16:19
their employers,
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从雇主方，
16:20
the courts.
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从法院得到帮助。
16:23
It's a lot to ask,
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这要求很高，
16:25
but it's not too much.
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但并不为过。
16:27
As parents, teachers,
advocates and activists,
advocates and activists,
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作为父母，老师，支持者和活动家，
16:31
we have raised a generation
of girls to have a voice,
of girls to have a voice,
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我们培养了一代女性，
她们拥有话语权，
她们拥有话语权，
16:36
to expect egalitarian
treatment in the home,
treatment in the home,
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她们被平等对待，无论在家庭
16:40
in the classroom,
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在教室，
16:41
in the workplace.
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或在工作场所。
16:43
Now it's time to demand
that intimate justice
that intimate justice
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现在到了要求
“亲密的正义”的时刻了，
“亲密的正义”的时刻了，
16:48
in their personal lives as well.
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在她们的私人生活中亦是如此。
16:51
Thank you.
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谢谢大家。
16:53
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Peggy Orenstein - Journalist, authorIn her groundbreaking book Girls & Sex, Peggy Orenstein explores the changing landscape of modern sexual expectations and its troubling impact on adolescents and young women.
Why you should listen
From her pioneering book Schoolgirls to her latest, Girls & Sex, author Peggy Orenstein interviewed young women across the country, mapping the terrain of adolescent female sexuality and gender expectations. Her interviews reveal an uncomfortable truth: although women may display self-confidence in public society, their knowledge of their own sexuality has plummeted, resulting in a “psychological clitoridectomy.”
In addition to her bestselling books, Orenstein writes for New York Times Magazine, comments for NPR and was recognized by the Columbia Journalism Review as among its “40 women who changed the media business in the past 40 years.”
Peggy Orenstein | Speaker | TED.com