ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Peggy Orenstein - Journalist, author
In her groundbreaking book Girls & Sex, Peggy Orenstein explores the changing landscape of modern sexual expectations and its troubling impact on adolescents and young women.

Why you should listen

From her pioneering book Schoolgirls to her latest, Girls & Sex, author Peggy Orenstein interviewed young women across the country, mapping the terrain of adolescent female sexuality and gender expectations. Her interviews reveal an uncomfortable truth: although women may display self-confidence in public society, their knowledge of their own sexuality has plummeted, resulting in a “psychological clitoridectomy.”

In addition to her bestselling books, Orenstein writes for New York Times Magazine, comments for NPR and was recognized by the Columbia Journalism Review as among its “40 women who changed the media business in the past 40 years.”

More profile about the speaker
Peggy Orenstein | Speaker | TED.com
TEDWomen 2016

Peggy Orenstein: What young women believe about their own sexual pleasure

Filmed:
3,668,105 views

Why do girls feel empowered to engage in sexual activity but not to enjoy it? For three years, author Peggy Orenstein interviewed girls ages 15 to 20 about their attitudes toward and experiences of sex. She discusses the pleasure that's largely missing from their sexual encounters and calls on us to close the "orgasm gap" by talking candidly with our girls from an early age about sex, bodies, pleasure and intimacy.
- Journalist, author
In her groundbreaking book Girls & Sex, Peggy Orenstein explores the changing landscape of modern sexual expectations and its troubling impact on adolescents and young women. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
For several years now,
0
960
1416
00:14
we've been engaged in a national debate
about sexual assault on campus.
1
2400
4120
00:19
No question --
2
7160
1216
00:20
it's crucial that young people
understand the ground rules for consent,
3
8400
4200
00:25
but that's where the conversation
about sex is ending.
4
13360
3000
00:29
And in that vacuum of information
5
17040
2056
00:31
the media and the Internet --
6
19120
1976
00:33
that new digital street corner --
7
21120
1736
00:34
are educating our kids for us.
8
22880
2280
00:38
If we truly want young people
to engage safely, ethically,
9
26200
5136
00:43
and yes, enjoyably,
10
31360
2696
00:46
it's time to have open honest discussion
about what happens after "yes,"
11
34080
5760
00:52
and that includes breaking
the biggest taboo of all
12
40680
3176
00:55
and talking to young people
13
43880
1736
00:57
about women's capacity for
and entitlement to sexual pleasure.
14
45640
4400
01:03
Yeah.
15
51440
1216
01:04
(Applause)
16
52680
1016
01:05
Come on, ladies.
17
53720
1216
01:06
(Applause)
18
54960
1896
01:08
I spent three years
talking to girls ages 15 to 20
19
56880
3816
01:12
about their attitudes
and experience of sex.
20
60720
2936
01:15
And what I found was
21
63680
1416
01:17
that while young women may feel
entitled to engage in sexual behavior,
22
65120
4296
01:21
they don't necessarily
feel entitled to enjoy it.
23
69440
3080
01:25
Take this sophomore
at the Ivy League college
24
73240
2136
01:27
who told me,
25
75400
1216
01:28
"I come from a long line
of smart, strong women.
26
76640
3256
01:31
My grandmother was a firecracker,
27
79920
2216
01:34
my mom is a professional,
28
82160
1856
01:36
my sister and I are loud,
and that's our form of feminine power."
29
84040
3360
01:40
She then proceeded
to describe her sex life to me:
30
88360
2696
01:43
a series of one-off hookups,
31
91080
2056
01:45
starting when she was 13,
32
93160
1736
01:46
that were ...
33
94920
1456
01:48
not especially responsible,
34
96400
2096
01:50
not especially reciprocal
35
98520
2136
01:52
and not especially enjoyable.
36
100680
1480
01:55
She shrugged.
37
103080
1616
01:56
"I guess we girls are just socialized
to be these docile creatures
38
104720
3616
02:00
who don't express our wants or needs."
39
108360
2240
02:03
"Wait a minute," I replied.
40
111560
1576
02:05
"Didn't you just tell me
what a smart, strong woman you are?"
41
113160
3080
02:09
She hemmed and hawed.
42
117000
1400
02:11
"I guess," she finally said,
43
119040
1856
02:12
"no one told me that that smart,
strong image applies to sex."
44
120920
3520
02:17
I should probably say right up top
that despite the hype,
45
125920
2975
02:20
teenagers are not engaging in intercourse
more often or at a younger age
46
128919
4897
02:25
than they were 25 years ago.
47
133840
2216
02:28
They are, however,
engaging in other behavior.
48
136080
3656
02:31
And when we ignore that,
49
139760
1576
02:33
when we label that as "not sex,"
50
141360
2480
02:36
that opens the door
to risky behavior and disrespect.
51
144600
3440
02:41
That's particularly true of oral sex,
52
149040
2536
02:43
which teenagers consider
to be less intimate than intercourse.
53
151600
3896
02:47
Girls would tell me, "it's no big deal,"
54
155520
2896
02:50
like they'd all read
the same instruction manual --
55
158440
3056
02:53
at least if boys
were on the receiving end.
56
161520
3000
02:57
Young women have lots
of reasons for participating.
57
165600
2856
03:00
It made them feel desired;
58
168480
1696
03:02
it was a way to boost social status.
59
170200
2576
03:04
Sometimes, it was a way
to get out of an uncomfortable situation.
60
172800
3080
03:08
As a freshman at a West Coast
college said to me,
61
176560
3056
03:11
"A girl will give a guy a blow job
at the end of the night
62
179640
2736
03:14
because she doesn't
want to have sex with him,
63
182400
2176
03:16
and he expects to be satisfied.
64
184600
2096
03:18
So, if I want him to leave
65
186720
1856
03:20
and I don't want anything to happen ... "
66
188600
1953
03:24
I heard so many stories
of girls performing one-sided oral sex
67
192720
4136
03:28
that I started asking,
68
196880
2016
03:30
"What if every time
you were alone with a guy,
69
198920
2256
03:33
he told you to get him
a glass of water from the kitchen,
70
201200
2976
03:36
and he never got you a glass of water --
71
204200
3336
03:39
or if he did, it was like ...
72
207560
1480
03:43
'you want me to uh ...?'"
73
211880
1200
03:45
You know, totally begrudging.
74
213920
1400
03:48
You wouldn't stand for it.
75
216000
1960
03:50
But it wasn't always
that boys didn't want to.
76
218960
2616
03:53
It was that girls didn't want them to.
77
221600
2656
03:56
Girls expressed a sense of shame
around their genitals.
78
224280
3176
03:59
A sense that they were
simultaneously icky and sacred.
79
227480
3760
04:04
Women's feelings about their genitals
80
232320
1816
04:06
have been directly linked
to their enjoyment of sex.
81
234160
3120
04:10
Yet, Debby Herbenick,
a researcher at Indiana University,
82
238160
3536
04:13
believes that girls' genital
self-image is under siege,
83
241720
4576
04:18
with more pressure than ever
84
246320
1656
04:20
to see them as unacceptable
in their natural state.
85
248000
3520
04:24
According to research,
86
252560
1216
04:25
about three-quarters of college women
remove their pubic hair -- all of it --
87
253800
4416
04:30
at least on occasion,
88
258240
1656
04:31
and more than half do so regularly.
89
259920
2280
04:35
Girls would tell me that hair removal
made them feel cleaner,
90
263200
4136
04:39
that it was a personal choice.
91
267360
1840
04:42
Though, I kind of wondered
if left alone on a desert island,
92
270840
4216
04:47
if this was how they would
choose to spend their time.
93
275080
3016
04:50
(Laughter)
94
278120
1536
04:51
And when I pushed further,
95
279680
1416
04:53
a darker motivation emerged:
96
281120
2136
04:55
avoiding humiliation.
97
283280
1720
04:57
"Guys act like they
would be disgusted by it,"
98
285880
2896
05:00
one young woman told me.
99
288800
1440
05:02
"No one wants to be
talked about like that."
100
290880
2080
05:06
The rising pubic hair removal
reminded me of the 1920s,
101
294240
3416
05:09
when women first started regularly
shaving their armpits and their legs.
102
297680
4496
05:14
That's when flapper dresses
came into style,
103
302200
2536
05:16
and women's limbs were suddenly visible,
104
304760
2576
05:19
open to public scrutiny.
105
307360
1440
05:21
There's a way that I think
that this too is a sign.
106
309640
2976
05:24
That a girl's most intimate part
is open to public scrutiny,
107
312640
3960
05:29
open to critique,
108
317440
1696
05:31
to becoming more about
how it looks to someone else
109
319160
3496
05:34
than how it feels to her.
110
322680
2080
05:38
The shaving trend has sparked
another rise in labiaplasty.
111
326000
3720
05:42
Labiaplasty, which is the trimming
of the inner and outer labia,
112
330440
4120
05:47
is the fastest-growing cosmetic
surgery among teenage girls.
113
335160
4360
05:53
It rose 80 percent between 2014 and 2015,
114
341160
4696
05:57
and whereas girls under 18 comprise
two percent of all cosmetic surgeries,
115
345880
4016
06:01
they are five percent of labiaplasty.
116
349920
3000
06:05
The most sought-after look, incidentally,
117
353920
1976
06:07
in which the outer labia
appear fused like a clam shell,
118
355920
3736
06:11
is called ...
119
359680
1456
06:13
wait for it ...
120
361160
1200
06:15
"The Barbie."
121
363240
1576
06:16
(Groan)
122
364840
1296
06:18
I trust I don't have to tell you
123
366160
2016
06:20
that Barbie is a) made of plastic
124
368200
2896
06:23
and b) has no genitalia.
125
371120
3176
06:26
(Laughter)
126
374320
1896
06:28
The labiaplasty trend
has become so worrisome
127
376240
2776
06:31
that the American College
of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
128
379040
3656
06:34
has issued a statement on the procedure,
129
382720
2256
06:37
which is rarely medically indicated,
130
385000
2496
06:39
has not been proven safe
131
387520
2136
06:41
and whose side effects
include scarring, numbness, pain
132
389680
5856
06:47
and diminished sexual sensation.
133
395560
1960
06:50
Now, admittedly,
134
398560
1416
06:52
and blessedly,
135
400000
1576
06:53
the number of girls involved
is still quite small,
136
401600
2760
06:57
but you could see them
as canaries in a coal mine,
137
405200
3056
07:00
telling us something important
about the way girls see their bodies.
138
408280
4000
07:05
Sara McClellan,
139
413760
1696
07:07
a psychologist
at the University of Michigan,
140
415480
2456
07:09
coined what is my favorite phrase ever
in talking about all of this:
141
417960
4520
07:15
"Intimate justice."
142
423320
1880
07:18
That's the idea that sex has political,
as well as personal implications,
143
426680
4096
07:22
just like, who does
the dishes in your house,
144
430800
2656
07:25
or who vacuums the rug.
145
433480
1600
07:27
And it raises similar
issues about inequality,
146
435680
3816
07:31
about economic disparity,
147
439520
1976
07:33
violence,
148
441520
1216
07:34
physical and mental health.
149
442760
1440
07:37
Intimate justice asks us to consider
150
445120
3456
07:40
who is entitled
to engage in an experience.
151
448600
3336
07:43
Who is entitled to enjoy it?
152
451960
2496
07:46
Who is the primary beneficiary?
153
454480
2200
07:49
And how does each partner
define "good enough"?
154
457240
3280
07:53
Honestly, I think those questions
are tricky and sometimes traumatic
155
461520
4896
07:58
for adult women to confront,
156
466440
1480
08:01
but when we're talking about girls,
157
469000
2296
08:03
I just kept coming back to the idea
that their early sexual experience
158
471320
5296
08:08
shouldn't have to be
something that they get over.
159
476640
2760
08:13
In her work,
160
481560
1216
08:14
McClellan found that young women
were more likely than young men
161
482800
3816
08:18
to use their partner's pleasure
as a measure of their satisfaction.
162
486640
3880
08:23
So they'd say things like,
163
491120
1336
08:24
"If he's sexually satisfied,
164
492480
1816
08:26
then I'm sexually satisfied."
165
494320
1560
08:28
Young men were more likely to measure
their satisfaction by their own orgasm.
166
496440
4840
08:34
Young women also defined
bad sex differently.
167
502840
3520
08:39
In the largest ever survey
168
507920
1496
08:41
ever conducted
on American sexual behavior,
169
509440
3136
08:44
they reported pain
in their sexual encounters
170
512600
3776
08:48
30 percent of the time.
171
516400
1880
08:51
They also used words like "depressing,"
172
519520
2840
08:55
"humiliating,"
173
523120
1576
08:56
"degrading."
174
524720
1200
08:58
The young men never used that language.
175
526440
3080
09:02
So when young women
report sexual satisfaction levels
176
530440
3376
09:05
that are equal to
or greater than young men's --
177
533840
2920
09:09
and they do in research --
178
537440
1240
09:11
that can be deceptive.
179
539440
1400
09:13
If a girl goes into an encounter
hoping that it won't hurt,
180
541640
3616
09:17
wanting to feel close to her partner
181
545280
2016
09:19
and expecting him to have an orgasm,
182
547320
2040
09:22
she'll be satisfied
if those criteria are met.
183
550160
2360
09:25
And there's nothing wrong with wanting
to feel close to your partner,
184
553120
3256
09:28
or wanting him to be happy,
185
556400
1336
09:29
and orgasm isn't the only
measure of an experience ...
186
557760
2524
09:33
but absence of pain --
187
561560
1240
09:35
that's a very low bar
for your own sexual fulfillment.
188
563760
3520
09:41
Listening to all of this
and thinking about it,
189
569000
2216
09:43
I began to realize that we performed
a kind of psychological clitoridectomy
190
571240
5296
09:48
on American girls.
191
576560
1240
09:50
Starting in infancy,
192
578360
1296
09:51
parents of baby boys are more likely
to name all their body parts,
193
579680
3816
09:55
at least they'll say,
"here's your pee-pee."
194
583520
2080
09:58
Parents of baby girls
go right from navel to knees,
195
586280
3176
10:01
and they leave this whole
situation in here unnamed.
196
589480
3456
10:04
(Laughter)
197
592960
1336
10:06
There's no better way
to make something unspeakable
198
594320
3456
10:09
than not to name it.
199
597800
1200
10:12
Then kids go into
their puberty education classes
200
600280
2416
10:14
and they learn that boys
have erections and ejaculations,
201
602720
3080
10:18
and girls have ...
202
606600
1736
10:20
periods and unwanted pregnancy.
203
608360
2920
10:24
And they see that internal diagram
of a woman's reproductive system --
204
612040
3856
10:27
you know, the one that looks
kind of like a steer head --
205
615920
2696
10:30
(Laughter)
206
618640
1480
10:34
And it always grays out between the legs.
207
622720
2320
10:37
So we never say vulva,
208
625760
2176
10:39
we certainly never say clitoris.
209
627960
2376
10:42
No surprise,
210
630360
1216
10:43
fewer than half
of teenage girls age 14 to 17
211
631600
3136
10:46
have ever masturbated.
212
634760
2000
10:49
And then they go
into their partnered experience
213
637360
2816
10:52
and we expect that somehow
they'll think sex is about them,
214
640200
3696
10:55
that they'll be able to articulate
their needs, their desires, their limits.
215
643920
4680
11:01
It's unrealistic.
216
649480
1440
11:04
Here's something, though.
217
652440
1200
11:06
Girls' investment
in their partner's pleasure remains
218
654320
3176
11:09
regardless of the gender of the partner.
219
657520
2440
11:12
So in same-sex encounters,
220
660680
2256
11:14
the orgasm gap disappears.
221
662960
2480
11:18
And young women climax
at the same rate as men.
222
666160
2800
11:22
Lesbian and bisexual girls would tell me
223
670120
2176
11:24
that they felt liberated
to get off the script --
224
672320
3576
11:27
free to create an encounter
that worked for them.
225
675920
3416
11:31
Gay girls also challenged
the idea of first intercourse
226
679360
3656
11:35
as the definition of virginity.
227
683040
1936
11:37
Not because intercourse isn't a big deal,
228
685000
2576
11:39
but it's worth questioning
why we consider this one act,
229
687600
4376
11:44
which most girls associate
with discomfort or pain,
230
692000
2816
11:46
to be the line in the sand
of sexual adulthood --
231
694840
3496
11:50
so much more meaningful,
232
698360
1456
11:51
so much more transformative
than anything else.
233
699840
2760
11:55
And it's worth considering
how this is serving girls;
234
703640
3456
11:59
whether it's keeping them
safer from disease,
235
707120
3016
12:02
coercion, betrayal, assault.
236
710160
2880
12:05
Whether it's encouraging
mutuality and caring;
237
713600
3040
12:09
what it means about the way
they see other sex acts;
238
717360
3616
12:13
whether it's giving them more control over
239
721000
2216
12:15
and joy in their experience,
240
723240
1840
12:17
and what it means about gay teens,
241
725680
2936
12:20
who can have multiple sex partners
without heterosexual intercourse.
242
728640
4040
12:25
So I asked a gay girl that I met,
243
733960
1840
12:28
"How'd you know
you weren't a virgin anymore?"
244
736520
2160
12:31
She said she had to Google it.
245
739560
1456
12:33
(Laughter)
246
741040
2176
12:35
And Google wasn't sure.
247
743240
1560
12:37
(Laughter)
248
745200
1816
12:39
She finally decided
that she wasn't a virgin anymore
249
747040
2936
12:42
after she'd had
her first orgasm with a partner.
250
750000
2720
12:45
And I thought --
251
753960
1576
12:47
whoa.
252
755560
1200
12:49
What if just for a second
253
757120
2656
12:51
we imagined that was the definition?
254
759800
2360
12:55
Again, not because
intercourse isn't a big deal --
255
763560
2336
12:57
of course it is --
256
765920
1296
12:59
but it isn't the only big deal,
257
767240
2320
13:02
and rather than thinking about sex
as a race to a goal,
258
770360
3776
13:06
this helps us reconceptualize it
as a pool of experiences
259
774160
5096
13:11
that include warmth, affection, arousal,
260
779280
4616
13:15
desire, touch, intimacy.
261
783920
2800
13:19
And it's worth asking young people:
262
787640
2216
13:21
who's really the more sexually
experienced person?
263
789880
3536
13:25
The one who makes out
with a partner for three hours
264
793440
3056
13:28
and experiments with sensual
tension and communication,
265
796520
4576
13:33
or the one who gets wasted at a party
and hooks up with a random
266
801120
3816
13:36
in order to dump their "virginity"
before they get to college?
267
804960
3680
13:41
The only way that shift
in thinking can happen though
268
809640
3176
13:44
is if we talk to young people
more about sex --
269
812840
4056
13:48
if we normalize those discussions,
270
816920
2336
13:51
integrating them into everyday life,
271
819280
2896
13:54
talking about those intimate acts
in a different way --
272
822200
3536
13:57
the way we mostly have changed
273
825760
2776
14:00
in the way that we talk
about women in the public realm.
274
828560
2640
14:03
Consider a survey
of 300 randomly chosen girls
275
831720
4576
14:08
from a Dutch and an American university,
276
836320
2376
14:10
two similar universities,
277
838720
1736
14:12
talking about their early
experience of sex.
278
840480
2920
14:16
The Dutch girls embodied everything
we say we want from our girls.
279
844280
4936
14:21
They had fewer negative consequences,
280
849240
1936
14:23
like disease, pregnancy, regret --
281
851200
2840
14:26
more positive outcomes
282
854640
1776
14:28
like being able to communicate
with their partner,
283
856440
2416
14:30
who they said they knew very well;
284
858880
1696
14:32
preparing for the experience responsibly;
285
860600
2576
14:35
enjoying themselves.
286
863200
1560
14:37
What was their secret?
287
865680
1200
14:39
The Dutch girls said
that their doctors, teachers and parents
288
867720
4256
14:44
talked to them candidly,
289
872000
1616
14:45
from an early age,
290
873640
1736
14:47
about sex, pleasure
and the importance of mutual trust.
291
875400
4920
14:53
What's more,
292
881480
1216
14:54
while American parents weren't necessarily
less comfortable talking about sex,
293
882720
4776
14:59
we tend to frame those conversations
294
887520
2496
15:02
entirely in terms or risk and danger,
295
890040
3600
15:06
whereas Dutch parents talk
about balancing responsibility and joy.
296
894600
4680
15:12
I have to tell you,
297
900200
1216
15:13
as a parent myself,
298
901440
1856
15:15
that hit me hard,
299
903320
2056
15:17
because I know,
300
905400
2536
15:19
had I not delved into that research,
301
907960
2256
15:22
I would have talked to my own child
about contraception,
302
910240
3776
15:26
about disease protection,
303
914040
1856
15:27
about consent because I'm a modern parent,
304
915920
2736
15:30
and I would have thought ...
305
918680
1334
15:34
job well done.
306
922000
1200
15:36
Now I know that's not enough.
307
924320
2280
15:39
I also know what I hope for for our girls.
308
927920
3040
15:43
I want them to see sexuality
as a source of self-knowledge,
309
931960
4256
15:48
creativity and communication,
310
936240
2216
15:50
despite its potential risks.
311
938480
2616
15:53
I want them to be able
to revel in their bodies' sensuality
312
941120
3456
15:56
without being reduced to it.
313
944600
1520
15:59
I want them to be able
to ask for what they want in bed,
314
947120
3216
16:02
and to get it.
315
950360
1240
16:04
I want them to be safe
from unwanted pregnancy,
316
952560
3456
16:08
disease,
317
956040
1216
16:09
cruelty,
318
957280
1216
16:10
dehumanization,
319
958520
1576
16:12
violence.
320
960120
1200
16:14
If they are assaulted,
321
962080
1776
16:15
I want them to have recourse
from their schools,
322
963880
3456
16:19
their employers,
323
967360
1416
16:20
the courts.
324
968800
1200
16:23
It's a lot to ask,
325
971120
1400
16:25
but it's not too much.
326
973240
1200
16:27
As parents, teachers,
advocates and activists,
327
975480
4056
16:31
we have raised a generation
of girls to have a voice,
328
979560
4776
16:36
to expect egalitarian
treatment in the home,
329
984360
3856
16:40
in the classroom,
330
988240
1256
16:41
in the workplace.
331
989520
1200
16:43
Now it's time to demand
that intimate justice
332
991720
4656
16:48
in their personal lives as well.
333
996400
2160
16:51
Thank you.
334
999760
1216
16:53
(Applause)
335
1001000
2600
Translated by Leslie Gauthier
Reviewed by Joanna Pietrulewicz

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Peggy Orenstein - Journalist, author
In her groundbreaking book Girls & Sex, Peggy Orenstein explores the changing landscape of modern sexual expectations and its troubling impact on adolescents and young women.

Why you should listen

From her pioneering book Schoolgirls to her latest, Girls & Sex, author Peggy Orenstein interviewed young women across the country, mapping the terrain of adolescent female sexuality and gender expectations. Her interviews reveal an uncomfortable truth: although women may display self-confidence in public society, their knowledge of their own sexuality has plummeted, resulting in a “psychological clitoridectomy.”

In addition to her bestselling books, Orenstein writes for New York Times Magazine, comments for NPR and was recognized by the Columbia Journalism Review as among its “40 women who changed the media business in the past 40 years.”

More profile about the speaker
Peggy Orenstein | Speaker | TED.com