ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Shekhar Kapur - Director and writer
Shekhar Kapur is a visionary filmmaker and storyteller who works at the intersection of art, myth and activism.

Why you should listen

Golden Globe-winning director Shekhar Kapur makes lush, international period films -- such as Elizabeth and The Four Feathers -- and Indian hits like Mr. India and Bandit Queen. Most recently, Kapur's short film "Passages"" is part of the October 2009 film anthology New York, I Love You. Also this October, he sat on the judging panel for 1 Minute to Save the World, a competition for short films about climate change. (And yes, last summer, he was a judge on India's Got Talent.)

His forthcoming film Paani – the hindi word for water – explores mumbai's shrinking supply of water and its distribution underworld. equally at home in hollywood and Bollywood, he's also a comics mogul; in 2006 he co-founded Virgin Comics as a venue for turning Indian and Hindu myths into pop-culture icons. For the company, now reorganized as Liquid Comics, he cocreated the series Ramayan 3392 A.D., based on the Ramayana. His newest Liquid series: Devi.

More profile about the speaker
Shekhar Kapur | Speaker | TED.com
TEDIndia 2009

Shekhar Kapur: We are the stories we tell ourselves

谢加·凯普尔: 我们都只是讲给自己的故事

Filmed:
878,088 views

创意之源何处寻觅?对好莱坞/宝来坞双栖导演谢加·凯普尔(执导影片《伊丽莎白》,《印度先生》)来说,创意来自于纯粹的焦虑的紧张感。他和我们分享了释放我们每个人心中故事盒的途径。
- Director and writer
Shekhar Kapur is a visionary filmmaker and storyteller who works at the intersection of art, myth and activism. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:15
So, I was just asked to go and shoot射击 this film电影 called "Elizabeth伊丽莎白."
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其实,我当时只打算拍《伊丽莎白》。
00:18
And we're all talking about this great English英语 icon图标 and saying,
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所以我们全都在谈论着这位伟大的英国人物,
00:21
"She's a fantastic奇妙 woman女人, she does everything.
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“她是个了不起的女人。她无所不能。
00:23
How are we going to introduce介绍 her?"
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可是,她该怎样出场?”
00:25
So we went around the table with the studio工作室 and the producers生产商 and the writer作家,
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公司、制片人、编剧谈了又谈,
00:27
and they came来了 to me and said, "Shekhar谢卡尔, what do you think?"
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然后他们来找我:“谢加,你有什么想法?”
00:29
And I said, "I think she's dancing跳舞."
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“我想她会跳舞。”
00:32
And I could see everybody每个人 looked看着 at me,
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于是在场所有人都看着我,
00:35
somebody said, "Bollywood宝莱坞."
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“宝来坞。”有人说。
00:37
The other said, "How much did we hire聘请 him for?"
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还有人说:“这家伙花了我们多少钱?”
00:39
And the third第三 said, "Let's find another另一个 director导向器."
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或是:“我们真该换个导演。”
00:42
I thought I had better change更改.
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当时我想,我可能确实需要些改变。
00:44
So we had a lot of discussion讨论 on how to introduce介绍 Elizabeth伊丽莎白,
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于是我们又讨论了很久伊丽莎白的出场。
00:46
and I said, "OK, maybe I am too Bollywood宝莱坞.
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我说:“可能我确实太过宝来坞。
00:49
Maybe Elizabeth伊丽莎白, this great icon图标, dancing跳舞?
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可是,伊丽莎白,这位伟大的人物,的确也跳舞?“
00:51
What are you talking about?"
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”你在说什么?!“
00:53
So I rethought再思考 the whole整个 thing,
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于是我不得不再次从头开始。
00:55
and then we all came来了 to a consensus共识.
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最后,我们终于达成共识。
00:57
And here was the introduction介绍 of this
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电影中,这位伟大的英国女人,伊丽莎白,
00:59
great British英国的 icon图标 called "Elizabeth伊丽莎白."
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是这样出场的:
01:06
Leicester莱斯特: May可能 I join加入 you, my lady淑女?
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雷彻思特:”可以和您跳舞吗,我尊贵的夫人?“
01:18
Elizabeth伊丽莎白: If it please you, sir先生.
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伊丽莎白:”非常乐意,先生。“
01:21
(Music音乐)
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(音乐)
02:05
Shekhar谢卡尔 Kapur卡普尔: So she was dancing跳舞.
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”所以,最后,她就是跳着舞出场。“
02:07
So how many许多 people who saw the film电影 did not get
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看过电影,观众们可以感觉
02:10
that here was a woman女人 in love,
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”嘿,这是个恋爱中的女人。“
02:12
that she was completely全然 innocent无辜
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她是完完全全纯真的,
02:14
and saw great joy喜悦 in her life, and she was youthful青春的?
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趁着年轻,享受人生的快乐。
02:17
And how many许多 of you did not get that?
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你们应该看到,
02:21
That's the power功率 of visual视觉 storytelling评书,
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这就是通过图像来讲故事的力量。
02:23
that's the power功率 of dance舞蹈, that's the power功率 of music音乐:
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也是音乐和舞蹈的力量。
02:26
the power功率 of not knowing会心.
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是”无知“的力量。
02:29
When I go out to direct直接 a film电影,
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导演电影时,
02:31
every一切 day we prepare准备 too much, we think too much.
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我们总是想得太多,准备得太多。
02:33
Knowledge知识 becomes a weight重量 upon wisdom智慧.
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我们的知识成为负担,使我们失去智慧。
02:36
You know, simple简单 words lost丢失
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在经验增长的同时,
02:38
in the quicksand流沙 of experience经验.
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我们却丢失了简单的语言。
02:42
So I come up, and I say,
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于是我问自己:
02:44
"What am I going to do today今天?" I'm not going to do what I planned计划 to do,
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”今天你要做什么?“我不打算再按计划行事,
02:47
and I put myself into absolute绝对 panic恐慌.
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我让自己处于绝对的惊恐焦虑中。
02:50
It's my one way of getting得到 rid摆脱 of my mind心神,
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这就是我逃离”理智“的方法。
02:53
getting得到 rid摆脱 of this mind心神 that says,
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它总是说:”嘿,
02:55
"Hey, you know what you're doing. You know exactly究竟 what you're doing.
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你知道你在做什么。当了这么多年导演之后,
02:57
You're a director导向器, you've doneDONE it for years年份."
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你完完全全掌控着一切。“
02:59
So I've got to get there
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摆脱这个声音后,
03:01
and be in complete完成 panic恐慌.
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我感到的是彻底的惊恐焦虑。
03:03
It's a symbolic象征 gesture手势. I tear眼泪 up the script脚本,
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我撕掉剧本,
03:05
I go and I panic恐慌 myself, I get scared害怕.
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陷入惊恐中。我感到害怕。
03:08
I'm doing it right now; you can watch me. I'm getting得到 nervous紧张,
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正如我现在做的这样。你们可以看出来,我很紧张。
03:11
I don't know what to say, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't want to go there.
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不知道说什么,不知道做什么,我害怕这样。
03:14
And as I go there, of course课程, my A.D. says,
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当我这样时,助理导演说:
03:16
"You know what you're going to do, sir先生." I say, "Of course课程 I do."
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”先生,您知道自己在做什么。“我回答:“当然。”
03:20
And the studio工作室 executives高管, they would say,
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片场的人们会说:
03:22
"Hey, look at Shekhar谢卡尔. He's so prepared准备."
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“嘿,看谢加。一看就知已经做足准备。”
03:24
And inside I've just been listening to Nusrat努斯拉特 Fateh法帖 Ali阿里 Khan
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其实我刚刚还在听Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan,
03:26
because he's chaotic混乱的.
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只因为他的歌一片混乱。
03:28
I'm allowing允许 myself to go into chaos混沌
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我就是要自己进入混乱无章的状态。
03:31
because out of chaos混沌, I'm hoping希望 some moments瞬间 of truth真相 will come.
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因为只有在混乱之中,我们才能期待真理的到来。
03:35
All preparation制备 is preparation制备.
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所谓准备其实也就只是准备。
03:37
I don't even know if it's honest诚实.
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我甚至不知道它是不是真的存在,
03:39
I don't even know if it's truthful真实.
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是不是值得信任。
03:41
The truth真相 of it all comes on the moment时刻, organically有机,
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真理只在瞬间降临。
03:44
and if you get five great moments瞬间
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如果在你的电影里,在你的故事里,
03:46
of great, organic有机 stuff东东
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你能够有五个这样的瞬间,
03:48
in your storytelling评书, in your film电影,
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可以创作出了不起的东西,
03:50
your film电影, audiences观众 will get it.
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你的观众会感觉到。
03:52
So I'm looking for those moments瞬间, and I'm standing常设 there
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当时我就是在寻找这样的瞬间。于是我站在这里,说:
03:54
and saying, "I don't know what to say."
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“我不知道该说什么。”
03:56
So, ultimately最终, everybody's每个人的 looking at you,
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于是所有人都盯着你,
03:58
200 people at seven in the morning早上
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早晨7点,200人盯着你。
04:00
who got there at quarter25美分硬币 to seven, and you arrived到达 at seven,
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他们15分钟前就到了。你是七点到的。
04:02
and everybody's每个人的 saying,
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所有人都在问:
04:04
"Hey. What's the first thing? What's going to happen发生?"
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“嘿!先做什么?这里发生了什么?”
04:06
And you put yourself你自己 into a state of panic恐慌
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而你只是把自己陷入到惊恐焦虑中。
04:08
where you don't know, and so you don't know.
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那里,你什么都不知道。
04:11
And so, because you don't know,
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正因为你什么都不知道,
04:13
you're praying祈祷 to the universe宇宙 because you're praying祈祷 to the universe宇宙
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你开始向宇宙祈求,
04:16
that something -- I'm going to try and access访问 the universe宇宙
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你开始试着与宇宙连接,
04:19
the way Einstein爱因斯坦 -- say a prayer祷告 --
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就是用爱因斯坦当年用的方法。
04:21
accessed访问 his equations方程,
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他就是用这方法连接了宇宙,看到了他的方程。
04:23
the same相同 source资源. I'm looking for the same相同 source资源
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于是,我正在向同一个源泉祈求。
04:26
because creativity创造力 comes from absolutely绝对 the same相同 source资源
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因为所有的创造力都来源于那一个地方。
04:28
that you meditate幽思 somewhere某处 outside yourself你自己,
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你必须在你自己本身之外,
04:30
outside the universe宇宙.
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宇宙之外去探求、去冥想。
04:32
You're looking for something that comes and hits点击 you.
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你期待有一样东西会降临,会打动你。
04:34
Until直到 that hits点击 you, you're not going to do the first shot射击.
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而且除非那样东西降临,你都决不会开机。
04:36
So what do you do?
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现在,你该做什么?
04:38
So Cate凯特 says, "Shekhar谢卡尔, what do you want me to do?"
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凯特问:“谢卡,你想让我做什么?”
04:40
And I say, "Cate凯特, what do you want to do?" (Laughter笑声)
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我回答:“凯特,你想要做什么?
04:43
"You're a great actor演员, and I like to give to my actors演员 --
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你是个了不起的演员。我想让你自己发挥。
04:46
why don't you show显示 me what you want to do?"
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所以,你为什么不给我看看你想怎么演。”
04:48
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑)
04:50
What am I doing? I'm trying to buy购买 time.
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我在做什么?
04:52
I'm trying to buy购买 time.
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我只是努力争取时间。
04:54
So the first thing about storytelling评书 that I learned学到了,
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所以,关于讲故事,我学到的第一点,
04:56
and I follow跟随 all the time is: Panic恐慌.
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并且一直坚持的,就是惊恐焦虑。
04:58
Panic恐慌 is the great access访问 of creativity创造力
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那是创造力的伟大源泉
05:01
because that's the only way to get rid摆脱 of your mind心神.
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因为只有这样我才能摆脱“理智”。
05:03
Get rid摆脱 of your mind心神.
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摆脱“理智”吧。
05:05
Get out of it, get it out.
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逃离它,忘掉它。
05:07
And let's go to the universe宇宙 because
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去向宇宙祈求,
05:09
there's something out there that is more
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因为那里的一些东西
05:11
truthful真实 than your mind心神,
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要比你的”理智“更加可信,
05:13
that is more truthful真实 than your universe宇宙.
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比你自己的”宇宙“要更加可信。
05:15
[unclear不明], you said that yesterday昨天. I'm just repeating重复 it
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您昨天说过。我只是重复,
05:17
because that's what I follow跟随 constantly经常
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因为那就是我一直所做的。
05:19
to find the shunyatashunyata somewhere某处, the emptiness空虚.
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去寻找”空“。
05:22
Out of the emptiness空虚 comes a moment时刻 of creativity创造力.
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只有在”空“里,才能寻求到创意的瞬间。
05:25
So that's what I do.
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那就是我一直做的。
05:27
When I was a kid孩子 -- I was about eight years年份 old.
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当我还是个8岁的孩子时,
05:29
You remember记得 how India印度 was. There was no pollution污染.
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你知道那时候的印度,没有污染。
05:32
In Delhi新德里, we used to live生活 -- we used to call it a chhatchhat or the khotakhota.
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那时我们住在德里,我们当时叫它Khota。
05:36
Khota'sKhota的 now become成为 a bad word. It means手段 their terrace阳台 --
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Khota现在变成一个不好的词了,意思是“他们的地盘”
05:39
and we used to sleep睡觉 out at night.
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晚上我们会睡在外面。
05:41
At school学校 I was being存在 just taught about physics物理,
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我刚开始在学校学习物理,
05:43
and I was told that
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我学到
05:46
if there is something that exists存在,
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如果一样东西存在,
05:48
then it is measurable可测量.
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它就是可测量的。
05:51
If it is not measurable可测量,
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如果一样东西不可测量,
05:53
it does not exist存在.
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它就不存在。
05:55
And at night I would lie谎言 out, looking at the unpolluted未受污染 sky天空,
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晚上我就在德里当时纯净的夜空下躺着,
05:58
as Delhi新德里 used to be at that time when I was a kid孩子,
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我还是个孩子,
06:01
and I used to stare at the universe宇宙 and say,
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我看着整个宇宙,说:
06:04
"How far does this universe宇宙 go?"
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”宇宙将存在多久?“
06:06
My father父亲 was a doctor医生.
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我的父亲是个医生。
06:08
And I would think, "Daddy, how far does the universe宇宙 go?"
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我会问:”爸爸,宇宙将存在多久?“
06:11
And he said, "Son儿子, it goes on forever永远."
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他回答:”永无止境。“
06:14
So I said, "Please measure测量 forever永远
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”那你告诉我怎么度量永久啊!
06:17
because in school学校 they're teaching教学 me
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学校的老师说
06:19
that if I cannot不能 measure测量 it, it does not exist存在.
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如果某东西你不能测量,它就不存在。
06:22
It doesn't come into my frame of reference参考."
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不存在我的参照系里。”
06:25
So, how far does eternity永恒 go?
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所以,什么是永恒?
06:27
What does forever永远 mean?
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永远是什么意思?
06:29
And I would lie谎言 there crying哭了 at night
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那些晚上,我躺着哭泣,
06:32
because my imagination想像力 could not touch触摸 creativity创造力.
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因为我的想象力不能触及到创造力。
06:35
So what did I do?
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我该怎么做?
06:37
At that time, at the tender投标 age年龄 of seven,
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于是在那时,在七岁那年,
06:39
I created创建 a story故事.
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我编了个故事。
06:41
What was my story故事?
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不知为什么,
06:43
And I don't know why, but I remember记得 the story故事.
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到现在我还记得那个故事。
06:46
There was a woodcutter樵夫
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有一个伐木工
06:48
who's谁是 about to take his ax斧头 and chop a piece of wood,
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拿起他的斧子准备砍一块木头。
06:51
and the whole整个 galaxy星系 is one atom原子 of that ax斧头.
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他的斧子很大。整个宇宙不过是其中一粒原子。
06:56
And when that ax斧头 hits点击 that piece of wood,
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当他的斧子击打到那片木头,
06:59
that's when everything will destroy破坏
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万事万物都消亡。
07:01
and the Big Bang will happen发生 again.
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大爆炸将再次发生。
07:03
But all before that there was a woodcutter樵夫.
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在我们的宇宙之前,只有一个伐木工。
07:05
And then when I would run out of that story故事,
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然后我会跳出这个故事,
07:07
I would imagine想像 that woodcutter's樵夫的 universe宇宙
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去想象那个伐木工的宇宙。
07:10
is one atom原子 in the ax斧头 of another另一个 woodcutter樵夫.
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它只是另一个伐木工斧子的一个原子。
07:13
So every一切 time, I could tell my story故事 again and again
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所以每次,我都可以不断的讲述我的故事,
07:16
and get over this problem问题,
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以为解决了我的问题。
07:18
and so I got over the problem问题.
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所以我就这样解决了困惑。
07:21
How did I do it? Tell a story故事.
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可我是怎么做到的?讲故事。
07:24
So what is a story故事?
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那么,什么是故事?
07:26
A story故事 is our -- all of us --
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故事就是一切,是我们所有人。
07:29
we are the stories故事 we tell ourselves我们自己.
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我们都只是我们讲给自己的故事。
07:32
In this universe宇宙, and this existence存在,
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在这个宇宙里,在这种存在里,
07:36
where we live生活 with this duality二元性
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我们过着双重的生活
07:38
of whether是否 we exist存在 or not
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我们究竟存在与否?
07:40
and who are we,
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我们究竟是谁?
07:42
the stories故事 we tell ourselves我们自己 are the stories故事
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故事,我们讲给自己的故事
07:45
that define确定 the potentialities潜力
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决定了
07:47
of our existence存在.
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我们存在的可能性。
07:49
We are the stories故事 we tell ourselves我们自己.
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我们只是我们告诉自己的故事。
07:54
So that's as wide as we look at stories故事.
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宇宙万物也只和我们的故事一样宽广。
07:56
A story故事 is the relationship关系
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你是谁,你能成为谁,
07:58
that you develop发展 between之间 who you are,
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和我们这个无穷的宇宙的关系,
08:02
or who you potentially可能 are,
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就在我们的故事里。
08:04
and the infinite无穷 world世界, and that's our mythology神话.
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那就是我们的神话。
08:07
We tell our stories故事,
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我们讲故事。
08:10
and a person without a story故事 does not exist存在.
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没有故事的人是不存在的。
08:13
So Einstein爱因斯坦 told a story故事
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爱因斯坦讲了个故事。
08:16
and followed其次 his stories故事 and came来了 up with theories理论
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在故事里他提出了他的理论,
08:19
and came来了 up with theories理论 and then came来了 up with his equations方程.
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在理论里提出了他的方程。
08:22
Alexander亚历山大 had a story故事 that his mother母亲 used to tell him,
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亚历山大的母亲告诉他一个故事,
08:25
and he went out to conquer征服 the world世界.
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他于是征服了世界。
08:27
We all, everybody每个人, has a story故事 that they follow跟随.
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我们所有人,每一个人,都跟随着他的故事。
08:30
We tell ourselves我们自己 stories故事.
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我们给自己讲故事。
08:32
So, I will go further进一步, and I say,
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更进一步,我说
08:35
"I tell a story故事, and therefore因此 I exist存在."
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我讲故事,所以我存在。
08:37
I exist存在 because there are stories故事,
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因为那些故事,所以我存在此处。
08:39
and if there are no stories故事, we don't exist存在.
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如果没有故事,那么我们都将消失。
08:41
We create创建 stories故事 to define确定 our existence存在.
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我们的故事决定了我们的存在。
08:44
If we do not create创建 the stories故事,
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如果我们停止讲故事,
08:46
we probably大概 go mad.
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我们可能会疯掉。
08:49
I don't know; I'm not sure, but that's what I've doneDONE all the time.
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我不知道。但我一直就是这么做的。
08:52
Now, a film电影.
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现在我们讲讲电影。
08:56
A film电影 tells告诉 a story故事.
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电影讲故事。
08:58
I often经常 wonder奇迹 when I make a film电影 -- I'm thinking思维 of making制造 a film电影 of the Buddha --
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我常常想,我在拍一部佛的电影,
09:01
and I often经常 wonder奇迹: If Buddha had all the elements分子
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我会想:如果佛拥有和导演一样的
09:05
that are given特定 to a director导向器 --
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那些器材。
09:07
if he had music音乐, if he had visuals视觉效果, if he had a video视频 camera相机 --
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他有音乐,他有特效,他有摄影机,
09:10
would we get Buddhism佛教 better?
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我们会不会有更好的佛教?
09:12
But that puts看跌期权 some kind of burden负担 on me.
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但这个成为了我的某种负担。
09:14
I have to tell a story故事
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我必须以一种更加明确的方式
09:16
in a much more elaborate阐述 way,
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来讲述这个故事。
09:18
but I have the potential潜在.
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但我看到了那种可能性。
09:20
It's called subtext潜台词.
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那就是“言外之意”。
09:22
When I first went to Hollywood好莱坞, they said --
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在我刚到好莱坞时,人们和我说——
09:24
I used to talk about subtext潜台词, and my agent代理人 came来了 to me,
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我当时和人们谈论“言外之意”,于是我的代理人对我说,
09:26
"Would you kindly和蔼 not talk about subtext潜台词?"
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“请不要再谈论‘言外之意’了。””
09:29
And I said, "Why?" He said, "Because nobody没有人 is going to give you a film电影
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我问:“为什么?”他说:“因为如果你再谈论它,
09:31
if you talk about subtext潜台词.
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没有人会给你片约。
09:34
Just talk about plot情节
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试着只去谈论情节,
09:36
and say how wonderful精彩 you'll你会 shoot射击 the film电影,
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谈谈你将会把电影拍得多么精彩,
09:38
what the visuals视觉效果 will be."
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或者谈谈会有什么样的视觉效果。”
09:40
So when I look at a film电影,
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所以当我们看一部电影,
09:42
here's这里的 what we look for:
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这些就是我们寻求的,
09:44
We look for a story故事 on the plot情节 level水平,
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我们在情节得层面上看那个故事,
09:47
then we look for a story故事
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在心理得层面上,
09:49
on the psychological心理 level水平,
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看那个故事,
09:51
then we look for a story故事 on the political政治 level水平,
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之后我们在政治的层面上看那个故事,
09:54
then we look at a story故事
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在传说的层面上
09:56
on a mythological神话 level水平.
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看那个故事。
09:58
And I look for stories故事 on each level水平.
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我在这所有层面上寻找故事。
10:00
Now, it is not necessary必要
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现在的状况是,
10:02
that these stories故事 agree同意 with each other.
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这些故事不必彼此契合。
10:05
What is wonderful精彩 is,
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在许多时候,故事之间相互矛盾,
10:07
at many许多 times, the stories故事 will contradict顶撞 with each other.
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这正是精彩之处。
10:11
So when I work with Rahman拉赫曼 who's谁是 a great musician音乐家,
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在我和伟大的音乐家Rahman合作时,
10:13
I often经常 tell him, "Don't follow跟随 what the script脚本 already已经 says.
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我常常和他说,“不要拘泥于剧本,
10:17
Find that which哪一个 is not.
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找到剧本之外的东西。
10:19
Find the truth真相 for yourself你自己,
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自己寻找真相。
10:21
and when you find the truth真相 for yourself你自己,
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当你找到它时,
10:23
there will be a truth真相 in it, but it may可能 contradict顶撞 the plot情节,
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它就会出现在你的音乐中。它有可能会和情节不符,
10:25
but don't worry担心 about it."
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但是不用担心。“
10:29
So, the sequel续集 to "Elizabeth伊丽莎白," "Golden金色 Age年龄."
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所以,在《伊丽莎白》的续集《黄金时代》里,
10:32
When I made制作 the sequel续集 to "Elizabeth伊丽莎白," here was a story故事 that
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故事情节大概如此
10:34
the writer作家 was telling告诉:
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编剧是这样写的。
10:36
A woman女人 who was threatened受威胁
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一个受到菲利普二世
10:39
by Philip菲利普 IIII
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威胁的女人
10:41
and was going to war战争,
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去到战场,
10:43
and was going to war战争, fell下跌 in love with Walter沃尔特 Raleigh罗利.
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当她到了那里,她和雷利爵士坠入爱河。
10:45
Because she fell下跌 in love with Walter沃尔特 Raleigh罗利,
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因为这段爱情,
10:48
she was giving up the reasons原因 she was a queen女王,
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她打算放弃皇位。
10:50
and then Walter沃尔特 Raleigh罗利
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但那位爵士
10:52
fell下跌 in love with her lady淑女 in waiting等候,
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却爱上她的侍女。
10:54
and she had to decide决定 whether是否 she was a queen女王 going to war战争
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于是,她不得不做出选择,她是一个作战的女王,
10:56
or she wanted...
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或者她只是想要爱情。
11:00
Here's这里的 the story故事 I was telling告诉:
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这一切这样出现在我的电影中。
11:03
The gods up there,
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天界诸神面前,
11:05
there were two people.
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站立两个人,
11:07
There was Philip菲利普 IIII, who was divine神圣
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菲利普二世,希望死后进入天界
11:10
because he was always praying祈祷,
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因为在世时他总是不断祈祷。
11:13
and there was Elizabeth伊丽莎白, who was divine神圣,
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还有伊丽莎白,也想成为神,
11:15
but not quite相当 divine神圣 because she thought she was divine神圣,
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但却不可以。虽然她自以为注定会成为神,
11:17
but the blood血液 of being存在 mortal凡人 flowed流入 in her.
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但她的体内流淌着的并不是永生的血液。
11:20
But the divine神圣 one was unjust不公,
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可是,那位将成为神的却并不是一位正直的人,
11:23
so the gods said,
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于是诸神说道:
11:25
"OK, what we need to do is
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“好吧。让我们这么干
11:27
help the just one."
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让我们帮助那位正直的人。”
11:30
And so they helped帮助 the just one.
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于是他们开始帮助她。
11:32
And what they did was, they sent发送 Walter沃尔特 Raleigh罗利 down
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而他们所做的事就是让雷利爵士来到人间
11:35
to physically物理 separate分离 her mortal凡人 self
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去把她不朽的精神
11:38
from her spirit精神 self.
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和无法达到永生的肉体分离开来。
11:40
And the mortal凡人 self was the girl女孩
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那个不能永生“她”
11:42
that Walter沃尔特 Raleigh罗利 was sent发送,
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就是派到雷利爵士那里的那位女侍,
11:44
and gradually逐渐 he separated分离 her
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渐渐的,他将她“抽离”
11:47
so she was free自由 to be divine神圣.
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于是她可以成为神了。
11:49
And the two divine神圣 people fought战斗,
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然后菲利普和伊丽莎白相互斗争,
11:51
and the gods were on the side of divinity.
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众神站在伊丽莎白那边。
11:53
Of course课程, all the British英国的 press got really upset烦乱.
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当然,电影放映时,英国的媒体都疯了。
11:57
They said, "We won韩元 the Armada舰队."
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后来有人说:“我们赢得了无敌舰队之战。”
12:00
But I said, "But the storm风暴 won韩元 the Armada舰队.
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而我说:“是风暴帮助你们赢得了战争。
12:02
The gods sent发送 the storm风暴."
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而风暴是诸神派遣的。“
12:04
So what was I doing?
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我在干什么?
12:06
I was trying to find a mythic神话 reason原因
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我只是找一个传奇的理由
12:08
to make the film电影.
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来制作一部影片。
12:10
Of course课程, when I asked Cate凯特 Blanchett布兰切特, I said, "What's the film电影 about?"
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后来我问凯特布兰彻特:”这部电影讲的是什么?“
12:13
She said, "The film's电影的 about a woman女人
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她说:”它讲的是
12:15
coming未来 to terms条款 with growing生长 older旧的."
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一个女人的成长故事。”
12:18
Psychological心理.
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心理层面。
12:20
The writer作家 said "It's about history历史, plot情节."
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而编剧说它是关于历史、情节。
12:23
I said "It's about mythology神话,
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我说它是关于神话传说。
12:25
the gods."
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众神的故事。
12:27
So let me show显示 you a film电影 --
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我不妨现在播放电影
12:29
a piece from that film电影 --
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——只是一些片段——
12:31
and how a camera相机 also --
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还有镜头是如何运转——
12:33
so this is a scene现场, where in my mind心神,
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这就是当时的场景,我心中的场面,
12:35
she was at the depths深处 of mortality死亡.
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她正处在死亡的深渊。
12:38
She was discovering发现 what mortality死亡 actually其实 means手段,
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她发现了死亡的含义,
12:41
and if she is at the depths深处 of mortality死亡,
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一旦她处在死亡的深渊,
12:44
what really happens发生.
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那么死亡真的可能降临。
12:46
And she's recognizing认识 the dangers危险 of mortality死亡
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当时的她已经看到了死亡的威胁
12:48
and why she should break打破 away from mortality死亡.
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正因为如此她想要永生。
12:51
Remember记得, in the film电影, to me,
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请记住,在电影中,对于我来说,
12:53
both her and her lady淑女 in waiting等候
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她和她的侍女一样
12:55
were parts部分 of the same相同 body身体,
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都只是一个人的两面
12:57
one the mortal凡人 self
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一个是会死的自我
12:59
and one the spirit精神 self.
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一个是不朽的精神。
13:02
So can we have that second第二?
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那么,我们可能拥有后者么?
13:04
(Music音乐)
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(音乐)
13:06
Elizabeth伊丽莎白: Bess贝丝?
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伊丽莎白:Bess?
13:10
Bess贝丝?
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Bess?
13:13
Bess贝丝 ThrockmortonTHROCKMORTON?
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Bess Throckmorton?
13:20
Bess贝丝: Here, my lady淑女.
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贝斯:我在这里,我的女王。
13:22
Elizabeth伊丽莎白: Tell me, is it true真正?
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伊丽莎白:请告诉我,那是真的吗?
13:24
Are you with child儿童?
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你怀孕了吗?
13:28
Are you with child儿童?
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你是不是已经怀上了爵士的孩子?
13:30
Bess贝丝: Yes, my lady淑女.
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贝斯:是的,我的女王。
13:32
Elizabeth伊丽莎白: Traitorous卖国.
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伊丽莎白:你背叛了我。
13:35
You dare to keep secrets秘密 from me?
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你竟敢瞒着我?
13:37
You ask my permission允许 before you rut发情,
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你必须有我的允许才能生存,
13:40
before you breed品种.
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必须有我的允许才能呼吸。
13:42
My bitches母狗 wear穿 my collars项圈.
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你这个荡妇竟还敢待在我身边。
13:44
Do you hear me? Do you hear me?
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你在听吗?你在听我说话吗?
13:46
Walsingham沃尔辛厄姆: Majesty威严. Please, dignity尊严. Mercy怜悯.
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Walsingham:陛下。请息怒。请显示你的仁慈吧。
13:49
Elizabeth伊丽莎白: This is no time for mercy怜悯, Walsingham沃尔辛厄姆.
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伊丽莎白:这并不是仁慈的时候,Walsingham。
13:52
You go to your traitor叛徒 brother哥哥 and leave离开 me to my business商业.
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你去找你那位叛徒兄弟,让我自己决定。
13:55
Is it his?
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孩子是不是他的?
13:57
Tell me. Say it. Is the child儿童 his? Is it his?
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告诉我!说!孩子是他的吗?
14:00
Bess贝丝: Yes.
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贝斯:是的。
14:02
My lady淑女,
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我的女王。
14:04
it is my husband's丈夫 child儿童.
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这是我丈夫的孩子。
14:09
Elizabeth伊丽莎白: Bitch母狗! (Cries呼喊)
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(哭泣声)
14:12
Raleigh罗利: Majesty威严.
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雷利:陛下。
14:14
This is not the queen女王 I love and serve服务.
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这并不是我热爱并且侍奉的女王。
14:22
Elizabeth伊丽莎白: This man has seduced诱惑 a ward病房 of the queen女王,
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伊丽莎白:这个男人引诱了女王的侍女,
14:25
and she has married已婚 without royal王室的 consent同意.
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结婚时甚至都没有取得皇家的许可。
14:29
These offenses罪行 are punishable该罚的 by law. Arrest逮捕 him.
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这些行为是违法的!抓住他!
14:33
Go.
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去!
14:39
You no longer have the queen's女王 protection保护.
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你不再受到女王的保护。
14:43
Bess贝丝: As you wish希望, Majesty威严.
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贝斯:如你所愿,陛下。
14:46
Elizabeth伊丽莎白: Get out! Get out! Get out!
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伊丽莎白:出去!出去!
14:53
Get out.
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全都给我出去!
14:55
(Music音乐)
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(音乐)
15:16
Shekhar谢卡尔 Kapur卡普尔: So, what am I trying to do here?
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谢加·凯普尔: 好了,我在试图说明什么?
15:20
Elizabeth伊丽莎白 has realized实现,
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伊丽莎白意识到
15:22
and she's coming未来 face-to-face面对面
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并且决定和她的嫉妒心
15:24
with her own拥有 sense of jealousy妒忌,
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和她自己腐朽的一面
15:26
her own拥有 sense of mortality死亡.
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进行面对面的斗争。
15:28
What am I doing with the architecture建筑?
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我是怎样处理那些建筑的?
15:31
The architecture建筑 is telling告诉 a story故事.
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它们也在讲一个故事。
15:33
The architecture建筑 is telling告诉 a story故事
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建筑们在讲一个故事
15:35
about how, even though虽然 she's the most powerful强大 woman女人
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作为世界上当时最有权利的女人
15:37
in the world世界 at that time,
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却仍然有一些其他东西要超过她,在她之上,
15:39
there is the other, the architecture's建筑的 bigger.
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比如这些建筑。
15:43
The stone is bigger than her because stone is an organic有机.
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这些石块要比她更大,因为石头是没有生命的。
15:45
It'll它会 survive生存 her.
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这将拯救她。
15:47
So it's telling告诉 you, to me, stone is part部分 of her destiny命运.
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所以,石头就是她的命运,
15:51
Not only that, why is the camera相机 looking down?
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不仅如此。为什么摄像头要向下?
15:54
The camera's相机 looking down at her because she's in the well.
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那是因为她正在井里。
15:57
She's in the absolute绝对 well
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在她自我构筑的
15:59
of her own拥有 sense of being存在 mortal凡人.
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绝对的深井里。
16:02
That's where she has to pull herself她自己 out
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就是从那里,她将自己
16:05
from the depths深处 of mortality死亡,
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从死亡的深渊中挣脱出来,
16:07
come in, release发布 her spirit精神.
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她进入那里,解放了她的精神。
16:09
And that's the moment时刻 where, in my mind心神,
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在我心里,在那个瞬间,
16:11
both Elizabeth伊丽莎白 and Bess贝丝 are the same相同 person.
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伊丽莎白和贝斯仍然是一体的。
16:14
But that's the moment时刻
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但在那个瞬间,
16:16
she's surgically手术 removing去除 herself她自己 from that.
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她将贝斯从体内抽离。
16:19
So the film电影 is operating操作 on
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因此在那个场景里,
16:21
many许多 many许多 levels水平 in that scene现场.
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电影正在许多许多层面上同时推进。
16:23
And how we tell stories故事
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我们就是这样讲故事,
16:25
visually视觉, with music音乐, with actors演员,
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视觉效果,音乐,演员,
16:28
and at each level水平 it's a different不同 sense
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在每一个层面上,都有一个不同的故事
16:30
and sometimes有时 contradictory矛盾 to each other.
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有时甚至会相互矛盾。
16:34
So how do I start开始 all this?
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我是如何开始这一切的?
16:39
What's the process处理 of telling告诉 a story故事?
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讲故事的过程是怎样的?
16:42
About ten years年份 ago,
360
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大约十年前,
16:44
I heard听说 this little thing from a politician政治家,
361
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我从一个政治家那里听到了一件小事,
16:47
not a politician政治家 that was very well respected尊敬 in India印度.
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他并不是一位广受尊敬的政治家。
16:50
And he said that these people in the cities城市,
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他说那些住在城市里的人,
16:53
in one flush红晕, expend花费 as much water
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一个人就要用掉
16:57
as you people in the rural乡村 areas
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农村里所有人在两天里
16:59
don't get for your family家庭 for two days.
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都无法得到的水。
17:02
That struck来袭 a chord, and I said, "That's true真正."
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这引起我的共鸣。我说:“是这样!”
17:05
I went to see a friend朋友 of mine,
368
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我到马拉巴山区
17:07
and he made制作 me wait
369
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去探望一位朋友。
17:09
in his apartment公寓 in Malabar马拉巴尔 Hill爬坡道
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他让我在他住所的第20层
17:11
on the twentieth第二十 floor地板,
371
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稍等一下。
17:13
which哪一个 is a really, really upmarket高档 area in Mumbai孟买.
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那个地区确实是孟买的繁华地段。
17:15
And he was having a shower淋浴 for 20 minutes分钟.
373
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他花20分钟洗了个澡。
17:17
I got bored无聊 and left, and as I drove开车 out,
374
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我感到无聊,于是开车离开。
17:19
I drove开车 past过去 the slums贫民窟 of Bombay孟买,
375
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我路过孟买的贫民窟,
17:21
as you always do,
376
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2000
就像平常一样,
17:23
and I saw lines线 and lines线 in the hot midday正午 sun太阳
377
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我看见正午骄阳下一条条由妇女儿童构成的长龙,
17:25
of women妇女 and children孩子 with buckets水桶
378
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他们都拿着水桶,
17:28
waiting等候 for a tanker油船
379
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等着水车
17:30
to come and give them water.
380
1035000
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来给他们一些水。
17:32
And an idea理念 started开始 to develop发展.
381
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于是我产生一个想法。
17:34
So how does that become成为 a story故事?
382
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这一切是如何成为一个故事的?
17:36
I suddenly突然 realized实现 that we are heading标题 towards disaster灾害.
383
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突然间,我意识到,我们正在走向灾难。
17:39
So my next下一个 film电影 is called "PaaniPaani"
384
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于是,我的下一部电影,叫做《巴尼》
17:41
which哪一个 means手段 water.
385
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意思是水。
17:43
And now, out of the mythology神话 of that,
386
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现在,源自神话,
17:45
I'm starting开始 to create创建 a world世界.
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我开始构建一个世界。
17:47
What kind of world世界 do I create创建,
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我构建了一个什么样的世界?
17:49
and where does the idea理念, the design设计 of that come?
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它的形象是怎样产生的?
17:52
So, in my mind心神, in the future未来,
390
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在我的心里,
17:54
they started开始 to build建立 flyovers天桥.
391
1059000
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未来的人们开始建筑立交桥。
17:57
You understand理解 flyovers天桥? Yeah?
392
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2000
你们知道立交桥?好的。
17:59
They started开始 to build建立 flyovers天桥
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他们开始建筑立交桥
18:01
to get from A to B faster更快,
394
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希望更快的从A到达B。
18:03
but they effectively有效 went from one area of relative相对的 wealth财富
395
1068000
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他们希望高效地从一个相对富裕地区
18:06
to another另一个 area of relative相对的 wealth财富.
396
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2000
去到另一个相对富裕地区。
18:08
And then what they did was
397
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之后他们所做是这样。
18:10
they created创建 a city above以上 the flyovers天桥.
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他们在立交桥上建筑了一个城市。
18:12
And the rich丰富 people moved移动 to the upper city
399
1077000
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有钱人都住到这个上层城市去
18:15
and left the poorer people in the lower降低 cities城市,
400
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把穷人们留在下层。
18:18
about 10 to 12 percent百分 of the people
401
1083000
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只有10%到12%的人
18:21
have moved移动 to the upper city.
402
1086000
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可以搬到上层。
18:23
Now, where does this upper city and lower降低 city come?
403
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这上下两层的城市是那里来的?
18:25
There's a mythology神话 in India印度 about --
404
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那来源于印度的一个传说——
18:27
where they say, and I'll say it in Hindi印地语,
405
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他们是这么说的,我要用印度语说,
18:30
[Hindi印地语]
406
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(印度语)
18:34
Right. What does that mean?
407
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好了。这是什么意思?
18:36
It says that the rich丰富 are always sitting坐在 on the shoulders肩膀
408
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我说的是,有钱人总是坐在别人的肩上
18:39
and survive生存 on the shoulders肩膀 of the poor较差的.
409
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在穷人的肩上生存。
18:41
So, from that mythology神话, the upper city and lower降低 city come.
410
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就是这样,从传说中,产生了上下层城市的点子。
18:43
So the design设计 has a story故事.
411
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这个设计是有原因的。
18:46
And now, what happens发生 is that the people of the upper city,
412
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就这样,住在上层的有钱人,
18:49
they suck吮吸 up all the water.
413
1114000
2000
他们把所有的水吸吮上去。
18:51
Remember记得 the word I said, suck吮吸 up.
414
1116000
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记住我的用词,吸吮。
18:53
They suck吮吸 up all the water, keep to themselves他们自己,
415
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他们吸吮了所有的水,留在自己身边。
18:55
and they drip feed饲料 the lower降低 city.
416
1120000
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他们只把水滴给下层的人。
18:57
And if there's any revolution革命, they cut off the water.
417
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2000
如果有革命,他们就索性切断水源。
18:59
And, because democracy民主 still exists存在,
418
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而且,因为仍然有“民主”,
19:02
there's a democratic民主的 way in which哪一个 you say
419
1127000
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这就是民主,
19:05
"Well, if you give us what [we want], we'll give you water."
420
1130000
3000
你们听话,我们给你们水。
19:08
So, okay my time is up.
421
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哦,我的时间到了。
19:10
But I can go on about telling告诉 you
422
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我本打算继续向你们介绍
19:12
how we evolve发展 stories故事,
423
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我是如何发展我的故事的,
19:14
and how stories故事 effectively有效 are who we are
424
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还有我们的故事为什么就是我们本身
19:17
and how these get translated翻译 into the particular特定 discipline学科
425
1142000
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还有如何把这些原则用于不同的方面。
19:19
that I am in, which哪一个 is film电影.
426
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我的就是电影。
19:21
But ultimately最终, what is a story故事? It's a contradiction矛盾.
427
1146000
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可是,说到底,什么故事?它只是一个矛盾。
19:24
Everything's一切都 a contradiction矛盾.
428
1149000
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万物皆为矛盾。
19:26
The universe宇宙 is a contradiction矛盾.
429
1151000
2000
宇宙是矛盾。
19:28
And all of us are constantly经常 looking for harmony和谐.
430
1153000
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可是我们所有人,自始至终,都在寻找和谐。
19:30
When you get up, the night and day is a contradiction矛盾.
431
1155000
2000
当你起床时,看到日与夜的矛盾。
19:32
But you get up at 4 a.m.
432
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可如果你在凌晨4点起床,
19:34
That first blush脸红 of blue蓝色 is where the night and day
433
1159000
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那第一抹蔚蓝,是日与夜正在向彼此
19:36
are trying to find harmony和谐 with each other.
434
1161000
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寻求和谐。
19:39
Harmony和谐 is the notes笔记 that Mozart莫扎特 didn't give you,
435
1164000
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莫扎特的曲调并没有给你和谐。
19:42
but somehow不知何故 the contradiction矛盾 of his notes笔记 suggest建议 that.
436
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但他音符中的矛盾却在暗示着和谐。
19:44
All contradictions矛盾 of his notes笔记 suggest建议 the harmony和谐.
437
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他以矛盾之声表现和谐。
19:48
It's the effect影响 of looking for harmony和谐
438
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在诗人心中,这就是从矛盾
19:50
in the contradiction矛盾 that exists存在 in a poet's诗人的 mind心神,
439
1175000
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寻找和谐的方法。
19:53
a contradiction矛盾 that exists存在 in a storyteller's说书人的 mind心神.
440
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这也是一个讲故事者从矛盾中寻找和谐的方法。
19:56
In a storyteller's说书人的 mind心神, it's a contradiction矛盾 of moralities道德.
441
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在故事中,那时死亡与不朽的矛盾。
19:59
In a poet's诗人的 mind心神, it's a conflict冲突 of words,
442
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在诗人心中,那是语词的冲突。
20:01
in the universe's宇宙 mind心神, between之间 day and night.
443
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在宇宙心中,它是日夜的交替。
20:04
In the mind心神 of a man and a woman女人,
444
1189000
2000
在男人与女人之间,
20:06
we're looking constantly经常 at
445
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我们总是看到,
20:08
the contradiction矛盾 between之间 male and female,
446
1193000
2000
男女之间的不和。
20:10
we're looking for harmony和谐 within each other.
447
1195000
2000
但我们也从彼此处寻求和谐。
20:12
The whole整个 idea理念 of contradiction矛盾,
448
1197000
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这一切都是关于矛盾。
20:15
but the acceptance验收 of contradiction矛盾
449
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接受矛盾才能讲出故事,
20:18
is the telling告诉 of a story故事, not the resolution解析度.
450
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而并不是要去消解这矛盾。
20:20
The problem问题 with a lot of the storytelling评书 in Hollywood好莱坞
451
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好莱坞的故事的问题,
20:22
and many许多 films影片, and as [unclear不明] was saying in his,
452
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同时也是许多电影的问题,正如[不清]在他的演讲中所说,
20:25
that we try to resolve解决 the contradiction矛盾.
453
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3000
就是我们总是试图解决矛盾。
20:28
Harmony和谐 is not resolution解析度.
454
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和谐并不是解答。
20:30
Harmony和谐 is the suggestion建议 of a thing
455
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和谐是一件
20:32
that is much larger than resolution解析度.
456
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远比解决矛盾更大的多的事。
20:34
Harmony和谐 is the suggestion建议 of something
457
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2000
和谐是一件
20:36
that is embracing拥抱 and universal普遍
458
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3000
包容万物
20:39
and of eternity永恒 and of the moment时刻.
459
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包容永恒与瞬间的事物。
20:41
Resolution解析度 is something that is far more limited有限.
460
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而解决矛盾却是有限的。
20:45
It is finite有限; harmony和谐 is infinite无穷.
461
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3000
和谐是无限的。
20:48
So that storytelling评书, like all other contradictions矛盾 in the universe宇宙,
462
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所以,讲故事,就和宇宙中一切矛盾一样,
20:51
is looking for harmony和谐 and infinity无穷
463
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是在死亡中探求和谐与无穷
20:54
in moral道德 resolutions决议, resolving解析 one, but letting出租 another另一个 go,
464
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解决一方面,放弃另一方面,
20:57
letting出租 another另一个 go and creating创建 a question that is really important重要.
465
1242000
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放弃一方面,提出一个真正关键的问题。
21:01
Thank you very much.
466
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谢谢各位。
21:03
(Applause掌声)
467
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(鼓掌)
Translated by HUI YU
Reviewed by Tony Yet

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Shekhar Kapur - Director and writer
Shekhar Kapur is a visionary filmmaker and storyteller who works at the intersection of art, myth and activism.

Why you should listen

Golden Globe-winning director Shekhar Kapur makes lush, international period films -- such as Elizabeth and The Four Feathers -- and Indian hits like Mr. India and Bandit Queen. Most recently, Kapur's short film "Passages"" is part of the October 2009 film anthology New York, I Love You. Also this October, he sat on the judging panel for 1 Minute to Save the World, a competition for short films about climate change. (And yes, last summer, he was a judge on India's Got Talent.)

His forthcoming film Paani – the hindi word for water – explores mumbai's shrinking supply of water and its distribution underworld. equally at home in hollywood and Bollywood, he's also a comics mogul; in 2006 he co-founded Virgin Comics as a venue for turning Indian and Hindu myths into pop-culture icons. For the company, now reorganized as Liquid Comics, he cocreated the series Ramayan 3392 A.D., based on the Ramayana. His newest Liquid series: Devi.

More profile about the speaker
Shekhar Kapur | Speaker | TED.com