TEDxGroningen
Alison Killing: What happens when a city runs out of room for its dead
Alison Killing: Što se dogodi kada gradu ponestane mjesta za svoje mrtve
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„Ako želite otvoriti svoje groblje“ u Velikoj Britaniji, kaže Alison Killing, „na neki način i možete.“ Ona mnogo razmišlja o tome gdje umiremo i gdje smo pokopani – i u ovom govoru, arhitekt i TED Fellow nudi novu ekonomsku i društvenu perspektivu na zanemaren dio naših gradova: groblja. Govoreći isključivo o zakonima Velike Britanije, iznosi zadivljujuće, ponekad i smiješne, često kontradiktne zakone o tome gdje možete biti pokopani.
Alison Killing - Architect
An architect and urban designer, Alison Killing uses journalism, filmmaking and exhibitions to help people better understand the built environment. Full bio
An architect and urban designer, Alison Killing uses journalism, filmmaking and exhibitions to help people better understand the built environment. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So, I have an overlooked
but potentially lucrative
but potentially lucrative
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Imam jednu zanemarenu
ali potencijalno unosnu
ali potencijalno unosnu
00:17
investment opportunity for you.
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poslovnu ponudu za vas.
00:20
Over the past 10 years in the UK,
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Zadnjih deset godina u Velikoj Britaniji
00:22
the return on burial plots
has outperformed the UK property market
has outperformed the UK property market
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zarada na grobnim mjestima
je zasjenila tržište nekretnina
je zasjenila tržište nekretnina
00:26
by a ratio of around three to one.
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u omjeru oko tri naprema jedan.
00:29
There are private cemeteries being set up
with plots for sale to investors,
with plots for sale to investors,
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Postoje privatna groblja
sa mjestima za prodaju ulagačima,
sa mjestima za prodaju ulagačima,
00:33
and they start at around 3,900 pounds.
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početna cijena oko 3900 funti.
00:36
And they're projected to achieve
about 40 percent growth.
about 40 percent growth.
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A projektirani su da postignu
rast od 40 posto.
rast od 40 posto.
00:40
The biggest advantage is that this
is a market with continuous demand.
is a market with continuous demand.
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Najveća prednost je ta da
ovo tržište ima kontinuiranu potražnju.
ovo tržište ima kontinuiranu potražnju.
00:47
Now, this is a real proposition,
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Sad, to je pravi prijedlog,
00:50
and there are companies out there
that really are offering this investment,
that really are offering this investment,
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a postoje tvrtke
koje stvarno nude ova ulaganja,
koje stvarno nude ova ulaganja,
00:54
but my interest in it is quite different.
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ali moj interes je malo drugačiji.
00:57
I'm an architect and urban designer,
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Ja sam arhitekt i urbani dizajner,
00:59
and for the past year and a half,
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i zadnjih godinu i pol,
01:01
I've been looking at approaches
to death and dying
to death and dying
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gledam kako pristupiti
smrti i umirućima
smrti i umirućima
01:04
and at how they've shaped our cities
and the buildings within them.
and the buildings within them.
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i kako oni oblikuju naše gradove
i zgrade unutar njih.
i zgrade unutar njih.
01:08
So in the summer,
I did my first exhibition
I did my first exhibition
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Na ljeto,
imala sam prvu izložbu
imala sam prvu izložbu
01:11
on death and architecture in Venice,
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o smrti i arhitekturi u Veneciji,
01:14
and it was called "Death in Venice."
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zvala se „Smrt u Veneciji.“
01:16
And because death is a subject
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I zbog toga što je smrt tema
01:18
that many of us find quite
uncomfortable to talk about,
uncomfortable to talk about,
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koju mnogi od nas doživljavaju
kao neugodnu za razgovor,
kao neugodnu za razgovor,
01:21
the exhibition was designed
to be quite playful,
to be quite playful,
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izložba je dizajnirana
vrlo razigrano,
vrlo razigrano,
01:24
so that people would
literally engage with it.
literally engage with it.
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kako bi se ljudi u
nju doslovno uključili.
nju doslovno uključili.
01:26
So one of our exhibits
was an interactive map of London
was an interactive map of London
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Izložili smo interaktivnu
kartu Londona
kartu Londona
01:30
which showed just how much
of the real estate in the city
of the real estate in the city
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koja pokazuje kolika je samo
površina grada
površina grada
01:33
is given over to death.
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dana smrti.
01:35
As you wave your hand across the map,
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Kako pomičete ruku preko karte,
01:37
the name of the piece of real estate --
the building or the cemetery --
the building or the cemetery --
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imena tih površina –
zgrada i groblja --
zgrada i groblja --
01:41
is revealed.
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se prikazuju.
01:42
And those white shapes that you can see,
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I ovi bijeli oblici koje možete vidjeti
01:45
they're all of the hospitals and hospices
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su bolnice, hospiciji,
01:48
and mortuaries and cemeteries in the city.
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mrtvačnice i groblja u gradu.
01:51
In fact, the majority are cemeteries.
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Zapravo, većina su groblja.
01:53
We wanted to show that, even though
death and burial are things
death and burial are things
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Htjeli smo pokazati da, iako su
smrt i pokop događaji
smrt i pokop događaji
01:58
that we might not think about,
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o kojima ne razmišljamo,
01:59
they're all around us, and they're
important parts of our cities.
important parts of our cities.
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oni su oko nas i bitni su
dijelovi našeg grada.
dijelovi našeg grada.
02:04
So about half a million people
die in the UK each year,
die in the UK each year,
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Oko pola milijuna ljudi
umire u Velikoj Britaniji svake godine,
umire u Velikoj Britaniji svake godine,
02:08
and of those, around a quarter
will want to be buried.
will want to be buried.
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a četvrtina njih
želi biti pokopana.
želi biti pokopana.
02:11
But the UK, like many
Western European countries,
Western European countries,
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Ali VB, poput mnogih
zapadnoeuropskih zemalja,
zapadnoeuropskih zemalja,
02:15
is running out of burial space,
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ponestaje mjesta za pokop,
02:17
especially in the major cities.
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poglavito u velikim gradovima.
02:19
And the Greater London Authority
has been aware of this for a while,
has been aware of this for a while,
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I Uprava šireg Londona
je svjesna toga,
je svjesna toga,
02:23
and the main causes are population growth,
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glavni razlog tome je porast stanovnika,
02:26
the fact that existing
cemeteries are almost full.
cemeteries are almost full.
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činjenica da su postojeća
groblja skoro pa puna.
groblja skoro pa puna.
02:29
There's a custom in the UK that graves
are considered to be occupied forever,
are considered to be occupied forever,
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Postoji običaj u VB da osoba
bude zauvijek pokopana u grobu,
bude zauvijek pokopana u grobu,
02:33
and there's also development pressure --
people want to use that same land
people want to use that same land
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a postoji i razvojni pritisak --
ljudi žele koristiti isto zemljište
ljudi žele koristiti isto zemljište
02:37
to build houses or offices or shops.
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za izgradnju kuća, ureda ili trgovina.
02:41
So they came up with a few solutions.
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Došli su do nekoliko rješenja
02:43
They were like, well, maybe we can
reuse those graves after 50 years.
reuse those graves after 50 years.
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Mislili su, možda možemo opet
koristiti grobove nakon 50 godina.
koristiti grobove nakon 50 godina.
02:47
Or maybe we can bury people,
like, four deep,
like, four deep,
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Ili možemo pokapati ljude
po četvero u dubinu
po četvero u dubinu
02:50
so that four people can be buried
in the same plot,
in the same plot,
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tako da je četvero ljudi
pokopano u istom grobnom mjestu
pokopano u istom grobnom mjestu
02:53
and we can make more efficient use
of the land that way,
of the land that way,
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i tako možemo povećati
učinkovitost zemljišta,
učinkovitost zemljišta,
02:55
and in that way, hopefully London
will still have space to bury people
will still have space to bury people
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i time, nadajmo se, London će
imati mjesta za pokapanje ljudi
imati mjesta za pokapanje ljudi
02:59
in the near future.
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u bliskoj budućnosti.
03:01
But, traditionally, cemeteries
haven't been taken care of
haven't been taken care of
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Tradicijski, o grobljima
se ne brinu
se ne brinu
03:03
by the local authority.
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lokalne vlasti.
03:05
In fact, the surprising thing is that
there's no legal obligation
there's no legal obligation
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Zapravo, iznenađujuće je to da
ne postoji legalna obveza
ne postoji legalna obveza
03:08
on anyone in the UK
to provide burial space.
to provide burial space.
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nikoga u VB da osigura
grobno mjesto.
grobno mjesto.
03:12
Traditionally, it's been done
by private and religious organizations,
by private and religious organizations,
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Tradicijski, to rade
privatne i religijske organizacije,
privatne i religijske organizacije,
03:17
like churches and mosques and synagogues.
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poput crkvi, džamija i sinagoga.
03:20
But there's also occasionally
been a for-profit group
been a for-profit group
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Ponekad se pojave i
organizacije koje žele zaraditi
organizacije koje žele zaraditi
03:24
who has wanted to get in on the act.
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baveći se time.
03:26
And, you know, they look at
the small size of a burial plot
the small size of a burial plot
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Znate, kada pogledate
veličinu grobnog mjesta
veličinu grobnog mjesta
03:30
and that high cost,
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i visoku cijenu,
03:31
and it looks like there's
serious money to be made.
serious money to be made.
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čini se da bi se mogli
zaraditi ozbiljni novci.
zaraditi ozbiljni novci.
03:34
So, actually, if you want to go out
and start your own cemetery,
and start your own cemetery,
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I, zapravo, ako želite
otvoriti svoje groblje,
otvoriti svoje groblje,
03:38
you kind of can.
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zapravo možete.
03:39
There was this couple in South Wales,
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Postoji par u Južnom Walesu
03:41
and they had a farmhouse
and a load of fields next to it,
and a load of fields next to it,
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koji je imao kuću na farmi
i mnogo njiva pored nje,
i mnogo njiva pored nje,
03:45
and they wanted to develop the land.
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i htjeli su nešto učiniti s njom.
03:47
They had a load of ideas.
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Imali su mnogo ideja.
03:48
They first thought about making
a caravan park,
a caravan park,
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prvo su htjeli napraviti park
za kamp kućice,
za kamp kućice,
03:51
but the council said no.
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ali je vijeće reklo ne.
03:53
And then they wanted to make a fish farm
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Zatim su htjeli napraviti ribnjak
03:55
and again the council said no.
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i opet vijeće je reklo ne.
03:57
Then they hit on the idea
of making a cemetery
of making a cemetery
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I onda su dobili ideju
da naprave groblje
da naprave groblje
04:00
and they calculated that by doing this,
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i računali su da ako to učine,
04:02
they could increase
the value of their land
the value of their land
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povisit će vrijednost
njihove zemlje
njihove zemlje
04:05
from about 95,000 pounds
to over one million pounds.
to over one million pounds.
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od 95 000 funti
do preko 1 milijun funti.
do preko 1 milijun funti.
04:10
But just to come back to this idea
of making profit from cemeteries,
of making profit from cemeteries,
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Hajde da se vratim na tu ideju
o profitiranju putem groblja,
o profitiranju putem groblja,
04:15
like, it's kind of ludicrous, right?
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smiješna je, zar ne?
04:18
The thing is that the high cost
of those burial plots
of those burial plots
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Stvar je u tome da je visoka
cijena grobnih mjesta
cijena grobnih mjesta
04:21
is actually very misleading.
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zapravo zabluda.
04:23
They look like they're expensive,
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Izgledaju skupo
04:25
but that cost reflects the fact that
you need to maintain the burial plot --
you need to maintain the burial plot --
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ali cijena odražava činjenicu da
morate održavati grobno mjesto --
morate održavati grobno mjesto --
04:29
like, someone has to cut the grass
for the next 50 years.
for the next 50 years.
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poput, netko treba kositi travu
sljedećih 50 godina.
sljedećih 50 godina.
04:33
That means it's very difficult
to make money from cemeteries.
to make money from cemeteries.
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To znači da je vrlo teško
zaraditi novce imajući groblje.
zaraditi novce imajući groblje.
04:36
And it's the reason that normally
they're run by the council
they're run by the council
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I to je razlog zašto ih obično
vodi neko vijeće
vodi neko vijeće
04:39
or by a not-for-profit group.
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ili neprofitne grupe.
04:41
But anyway, the council granted
these people permission,
these people permission,
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No, vijeće je dalo
odobrenje tim ljudima,
odobrenje tim ljudima,
04:43
and they're now trying
to build their cemetery.
to build their cemetery.
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i sad pokušavaju
sagraditi svoje groblje.
sagraditi svoje groblje.
04:46
So just to explain to you
kind of how this works:
kind of how this works:
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Da vam objasnim otprilike
kako ovo funkcionira:
kako ovo funkcionira:
04:49
If I want to build something in the UK,
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Ako želim sagraditi nešto u VB,
04:51
like a cemetery for example,
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na primjer groblje,
04:53
then I have to apply
for planning permission first.
for planning permission first.
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moram se prvo prijaviti za
dopuštenje o planiranju.
dopuštenje o planiranju.
04:56
So if I want to build a new
office building for a client
office building for a client
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Ako želim sagraditi nove
urede za klijente
urede za klijente
05:01
or if I want to extend my home
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ili želim proširiti svoju kuću
05:03
or, you know, if I have a shop
and I want to convert it into an office,
and I want to convert it into an office,
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ili, znate, imam trgovinu
i želim ju pretvoriti u ured,
i želim ju pretvoriti u ured,
05:07
I have to do a load of drawings,
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moram napraviti hrpu crteža,
05:08
and I submit them
to the council for permission.
to the council for permission.
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i to predati
vijeću za dozvole.
vijeću za dozvole.
05:11
And they'll look at things like
how it fits in the surroundings.
how it fits in the surroundings.
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I oni će provjeriti stvari poput
kako se uklapa u okolinu.
kako se uklapa u okolinu.
05:15
So they'll look at what it looks like.
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Pogledat će kako će sve izgledati.
05:17
But they'll also think about things
like what impact is it going to have
like what impact is it going to have
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Ali će također razmisliti i o stvarima
poput kakav će utjecaj imati
poput kakav će utjecaj imati
05:20
on the local environment?
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na okolinu.
05:22
And they'll be thinking about things like,
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I razmislit će o stvarima poput,
05:24
is this thing going to cause pollution
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hoće li ovo stvarati zagađenje
05:26
or is there going to be a lot of traffic
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ili hoće li biti prometno
05:28
that wants to go to this thing
that I've built?
that I've built?
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zbog toga što
gradim.
gradim.
05:30
But also good things.
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Ali gledat će i dobre stvari.
05:32
Is it going to add local services
like shops to the neighborhood
like shops to the neighborhood
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Hoće li dodati novu uslugu,
poput trgovine, u susjedstvo
poput trgovine, u susjedstvo
05:35
that local people would like to use?
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koje će ljudi htjeti koristiti?
05:38
And they'll weigh up the advantages
and the disadvantages
and the disadvantages
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Vagati će prednosti i nedostatke
05:40
and they'll make a decision.
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i donijeti odluku.
05:42
So that's how it works if I want
to build a large cemetery.
to build a large cemetery.
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Tako bi to išlo da želim
otvoriti veliko groblje.
otvoriti veliko groblje.
05:47
But what if I've got a piece of land
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A što ako imam komad zemljišta
05:49
and I just want to bury
a few people, like five or six?
a few people, like five or six?
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i želim sahraniti
nekoliko ljudi, pet-šest?
nekoliko ljudi, pet-šest?
05:53
Well, then -- actually, I don't need
permission from anyone!
permission from anyone!
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Tada, zapravo, ne trebam
ničije odobrenje!
ničije odobrenje!
05:57
There's actually almost no regulation
in the UK around burial,
in the UK around burial,
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Skoro pa ne postoje propisi
u VB što se tiče pokopa,
u VB što se tiče pokopa,
06:02
and the little bit that there is,
is about not polluting water courses,
is about not polluting water courses,
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a ono što ima,
tiče se onečišćenja voda,
tiče se onečišćenja voda,
06:05
like not polluting rivers or groundwater.
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poput rijeka i podzemnih voda
06:08
So actually, if you want to go
and make your own mini-cemetery,
and make your own mini-cemetery,
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Zapravo, ako želite
stvoriti svoje malo groblje,
stvoriti svoje malo groblje,
06:12
then you can.
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možete.
06:13
But I mean, like -- really,
who does this? Right?
who does this? Right?
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Ali --stvarno,
tko to čini? Zar ne?
tko to čini? Zar ne?
06:18
Well, if you're an aristocratic family
and you have a large estate,
and you have a large estate,
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Ako ste aristokratska obitalj
i imate veliki posjed,
i imate veliki posjed,
06:21
then there's a chance that you'll
have a mausoleum on it,
have a mausoleum on it,
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postoji šansa da imate
mauzolej na njemu,
mauzolej na njemu,
06:24
and you'll bury your family there.
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i da se tu pokapaju članovi obitelji.
06:26
But the really weird thing
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Ali stvarno čudna stvar je to
06:28
is that you don't need to have
a piece of land of a certain size
a piece of land of a certain size
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da ne morate imati
komad zemlje određene veličine
komad zemlje određene veličine
06:32
before you're allowed
to start burying people on it.
to start burying people on it.
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prije no što vam je dopušteno
pokapati ljude na njoj.
pokapati ljude na njoj.
06:34
And so that means that, technically,
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A to znači da tehnički,
06:36
this applies to, like, the back garden
of your house in the suburbs.
of your house in the suburbs.
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to se odnosi i na stražnje dvorište
vaše kuće u predgrađu.
vaše kuće u predgrađu.
06:40
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:42
So what if you wanted
to try this yourself at home?
to try this yourself at home?
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Što ako biste htjeli
to pokušati kod kuće?
to pokušati kod kuće?
06:46
Well, there's a few councils
that have guidance on their website
that have guidance on their website
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postoji nekoliko vijeća
koja imaju smjernice na internetu
koja imaju smjernice na internetu
06:50
which can help you.
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koje vam mogu pomoći.
06:51
So, the first thing that they tell you
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Prva stvar koju vam kažu
06:54
is that you need to have a certificate
of burial before you can go ahead --
of burial before you can go ahead --
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je da morate imati certifikat pokopa
prije no što to učinite --
prije no što to učinite --
06:57
you're not allowed to just murder people
and put them under the patio.
and put them under the patio.
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nije dozvoljeno samo ubiti ljude
i pokopati ih u dvorištu.
i pokopati ih u dvorištu.
07:01
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:04
They also tell you that you need to keep
a record of where the grave is.
a record of where the grave is.
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Također vam kažu da morate označiti
mjesto gdje je grob.
mjesto gdje je grob.
07:08
But that's pretty much it
for formal requirements.
for formal requirements.
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I to je to što vam je
službeno potrebno.
službeno potrebno.
07:10
Now, they do warn you that
your neighbors might not like this,
your neighbors might not like this,
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Upozorit će vas da se to
vašim susjedima možda neće svidjeti,
vašim susjedima možda neće svidjeti,
07:13
but, legally speaking, there's almost
nothing that they can do about it.
nothing that they can do about it.
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ali, pravno govoreći, ne mogu
ništa učiniti po tom pitanju.
ništa učiniti po tom pitanju.
07:17
And just in case any of you
still had that profit idea in your mind
still had that profit idea in your mind
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I ako slučajno još netko
ima ideju zarade na umu
ima ideju zarade na umu
07:22
about how much those burial plots cost
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i koliko takva grobna mjesta koštaju
07:25
and how much money
you might be able to make,
you might be able to make,
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i koliko novca
možete zaraditi,
možete zaraditi,
07:27
they also warn that it might cause
the value of your house
the value of your house
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upozore vas da to može
smanjiti vrijednost vaše kuće
smanjiti vrijednost vaše kuće
07:30
to drop by 20 percent.
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za 20 posto.
07:32
Although, actually, it's more likely
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Iako, zapravo, vjerojatnije je
07:34
that no one will want to buy
your house at all after that.
your house at all after that.
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da nitko neće htjeti kupiti
vašu kuću nakon toga.
vašu kuću nakon toga.
07:38
So what I find fascinating about this
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Ono što me fascinira kod ovoga
07:40
is the fact that it kind of sums up
many of our attitudes towards death.
many of our attitudes towards death.
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je činjenica da to zapravo prikazuje
naše različite stavove prema smrti.
naše različite stavove prema smrti.
07:46
In the UK, and I think that the figures
across Europe are probably similar,
across Europe are probably similar,
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U VB, a mislim da su brojke
u Europi slične,
u Europi slične,
07:50
only about 30 percent of people
have ever talked to anyone
have ever talked to anyone
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samo 30 posto ljudi
je pričalo s nekim
je pričalo s nekim
07:53
about their wishes around death,
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o svojim željama oko smrti,
07:55
and even for people over 75,
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i čak ljudi koji su stariji od 75,
07:57
only 45 percent of people
have ever talked about this.
have ever talked about this.
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samo 45 posto ljudi
je pričalo o ovome.
je pričalo o ovome.
08:01
And the reasons that
people give ... you know,
people give ... you know,
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A razlog tome je da
ljudi... znate,
ljudi... znate,
08:04
they think that their death is far off
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misle da je njihova smrt daleko
08:06
or they think that they're going
to make people uncomfortable
to make people uncomfortable
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ili misle da će
ljudima biti neugodno
ljudima biti neugodno
08:08
by talking about it.
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pričajući o tome.
08:10
And you know, to a certain extent,
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I znate, do neke mjere,
08:12
there are other people out there
who are taking care of things for us.
who are taking care of things for us.
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postoje drugi ljudi koji
se brinu o tome umjesto nas.
se brinu o tome umjesto nas.
08:15
The government has all this regulation
and bureaucracy around things
and bureaucracy around things
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Vlada ima propise i
birokraciju za stvari
birokraciju za stvari
08:19
like burying a death, for example,
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poput pokapanja, na primjer
08:21
and there's people like funeral directors
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i postoje ljudi poput pogrebnika
08:23
who devote their entire
working lives to this issue.
working lives to this issue.
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koji posvete svoju karijeru
ovom problemu.
ovom problemu.
08:26
But when it comes to our cities
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Ali kada se radi o
našim gradovima
našim gradovima
08:27
and thinking about how
death fits in our cities,
death fits in our cities,
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i razmišljanju o tome kako
se smrt uklapa u njih,
se smrt uklapa u njih,
08:30
there's much less regulation
and design and thought
and design and thought
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postoji puno manje propisa
i dizajnova i razmišljanja
i dizajnova i razmišljanja
08:35
than we might imagine.
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no što mislimo.
08:36
So we're not thinking about this,
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Ne razmišljamo o ovome,
08:38
but all of the people we imagine
are thinking about it --
are thinking about it --
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ali razni ljudi za koje mislimo da da
razmišljaju o tome --
razmišljaju o tome --
08:41
they're not taking care of it either.
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ni oni ne poduzimaju ništa.
08:43
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
08:44
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alison Killing - ArchitectAn architect and urban designer, Alison Killing uses journalism, filmmaking and exhibitions to help people better understand the built environment.
Why you should listen
Alison Killing is an architect and urban designer working to engage people with their built environment, via design of buildings and urban strategies, film making, exhibitions and events. She explores the relationship between death and modern architecture, looking at how cities are rebuilt after disaster.
Recent projects include Death in the City (and its first iteration, Death in Venice, which was shown as an independent event during the opening week of the Venice Architecture Biennale), a touring exhibition about death and modern architecture; work with the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies on better rebuilding after disaster and how to integrate relevant urban design tools into humanitarian response; and a study of financial models for arts and community projects temporarily using vacant buildings to help these projects become self-sustaining.
Alison Killing | Speaker | TED.com