ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alison Killing - Architect
An architect and urban designer, Alison Killing uses journalism, filmmaking and exhibitions to help people better understand the built environment.

Why you should listen

Alison Killing is an architect and urban designer working to engage people with their built environment, via design of buildings and urban strategies, film making, exhibitions and events. She explores the relationship between death and modern architecture, looking at how cities are rebuilt after disaster.

Recent projects include Death in the City (and its first iteration, Death in Venice, which was shown as an independent event during the opening week of the Venice Architecture Biennale), a touring exhibition about death and modern architecture; work with the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies on better rebuilding after disaster and how to integrate relevant urban design tools into humanitarian response; and a study of financial models for arts and community projects temporarily using vacant buildings to help these projects become self-sustaining.

More profile about the speaker
Alison Killing | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxGroningen

Alison Killing: What happens when a city runs out of room for its dead

艾莉森.凱琳: 如果一個城市死無葬身之地

Filmed:
1,532,318 views

艾莉森.凱琳說:「在英國,如果你想開辦墓園,你是可以辦到的 。」她想了很多有關於我們要在哪裡死亡及埋葬的問題,在這次談話中, 建築師兼TED研究員的她,用令我們大開眼界的經濟與社會觀點,談論城鎮中經常被忽視的一項功能規劃:墓地。她以輕鬆、迷人、搞笑的方式,在演說中特別提到英國法律中關於你可以葬在哪裡的矛盾之處。
- Architect
An architect and urban designer, Alison Killing uses journalism, filmmaking and exhibitions to help people better understand the built environment. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
So, I have an overlooked忽視
but potentially可能 lucrative有利可圖
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我有一個被人們忽視,
但很有搞頭的投資機會
要介紹給你們。
00:17
investment投資 opportunity機會 for you.
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00:20
Over the past過去 10 years年份 in the UK聯合王國,
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過去10年,在英國
00:22
the return返回 on burial葬禮 plots地塊
has outperformed跑贏 the UK聯合王國 property屬性 market市場
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墓地的投資報酬率比
英國的房地產還要好,
00:26
by a ratio of around three to one.
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兩者的比例大致為 3:1
有些私人的墓園被開發出來
提供給投資者購買,
00:29
There are private私人的 cemeteries墓地 being存在 set up
with plots地塊 for sale拍賣 to investors投資者,
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00:33
and they start開始 at around 3,900 pounds英鎊.
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價格從大約3900英鎊起跳。
00:36
And they're projected預計 to achieve實現
about 40 percent百分 growth發展.
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他們預估可達到百分之四十的成長率。
00:40
The biggest最大 advantage優點 is that this
is a market市場 with continuous連續 demand需求.
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最大的優點是...
這是一個有持續性需求的市場.....(笑聲)
現在,這真的是一門生意
00:47
Now, this is a real真實 proposition主張,
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00:50
and there are companies公司 out there
that really are offering this investment投資,
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而且真有公司提供
這樣的投資標的,
00:54
but my interest利益 in it is quite相當 different不同.
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但是,我對它有個很不一樣的興趣。
我是一個建築師和城市設計師,
00:57
I'm an architect建築師 and urban城市的 designer設計師,
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00:59
and for the past過去 year and a half,
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而在過去的一年半,
01:01
I've been looking at approaches方法
to death死亡 and dying垂死
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我都在研究死亡和臨終的方法,
01:04
and at how they've他們已經 shaped成形 our cities城市
and the buildings房屋 within them.
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以及研究墓地是如何塑造
我們的城市和裡面的建築物。
今年夏天,我在威尼斯舉辦了我的第一個
01:08
So in the summer夏季,
I did my first exhibition展覽
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01:11
on death死亡 and architecture建築 in Venice威尼斯,
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有關死亡和建築的展覽會。
01:14
and it was called "Death死亡 in Venice威尼斯."
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展覽的名字是「 威尼斯之死 」
因為死亡是一個
01:16
And because death死亡 is a subject學科
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01:18
that many許多 of us find quite相當
uncomfortable不舒服 to talk about,
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我們許多人很不喜歡談的主題,
01:21
the exhibition展覽 was designed設計
to be quite相當 playful調皮,
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展覽會設計得很俏皮,
01:24
so that people would
literally按照字面 engage從事 with it.
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來使人們真正願意參與。
01:26
So one of our exhibits展品
was an interactive互動 map地圖 of London倫敦
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我們的展出其中一項是倫敦的互動地圖,
01:30
which哪一個 showed顯示 just how much
of the real真實 estate房地產 in the city
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顯示倫敦有多少房地產
01:33
is given特定 over to death死亡.
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是提供給死亡這件事情。
01:35
As you wave your hand across橫過 the map地圖,
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當你在地圖上揮揮手,
01:37
the name名稱 of the piece of real真實 estate房地產 --
the building建造 or the cemetery公墓 --
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這些房地產 - 大樓或是墓地的名字
就會顯示出來。
01:41
is revealed透露.
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01:42
And those white白色 shapes形狀 that you can see,
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你們看到的白色形狀的
01:45
they're all of the hospitals醫院 and hospices收容所
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是市區內的醫院和臨終關懷院
01:48
and mortuaries殮房 and cemeteries墓地 in the city.
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以及太平間和墓地。
01:51
In fact事實, the majority多數 are cemeteries墓地.
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事實上,大多數都是墓地。
01:53
We wanted to show顯示 that, even though雖然
death死亡 and burial葬禮 are things
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我們想證明,即使死亡和埋葬
可能是我們平常不會去想的事情,
01:58
that we might威力 not think about,
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01:59
they're all around us, and they're
important重要 parts部分 of our cities城市.
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但它們環繞著我們,
而且是我們城市中很重要的部分。
02:04
So about half a million百萬 people
die in the UK聯合王國 each year,
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英國每年大約有50萬人死亡,
02:08
and of those, around a quarter25美分硬幣
will want to be buried隱藏.
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其中,大約四分之一的人希望被土葬。
02:11
But the UK聯合王國, like many許多
Western西 European歐洲的 countries國家,
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但是在英國,和許多西歐的國家一樣,
02:15
is running賽跑 out of burial葬禮 space空間,
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都快要沒有埋葬的土地。
02:17
especially特別 in the major重大的 cities城市.
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特別是在各大主要城市。
02:19
And the Greater London倫敦 Authority權威
has been aware知道的 of this for a while,
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大倫敦當權者早就
意識到這一點了,
02:23
and the main主要 causes原因 are population人口 growth發展,
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主要的原因是人口成長,
02:26
the fact事實 that existing現有
cemeteries墓地 are almost幾乎 full充分.
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以及現存墓地容量幾乎全滿。
02:29
There's a custom習慣 in the UK聯合王國 that graves墳墓
are considered考慮 to be occupied佔據 forever永遠,
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英國有一個不成文慣例,
墳墓被認為是可永久佔有的,
02:33
and there's also development發展 pressure壓力 --
people want to use that same相同 land土地
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但是也有發展的壓力 -
人們也想利用同樣的地
02:37
to build建立 houses房屋 or offices辦事處 or shops商店.
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來蓋房子,辦公室,或店面。
所以,他們想出幾個辦法。
02:41
So they came來了 up with a few少數 solutions解決方案.
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02:43
They were like, well, maybe we can
reuse重用 those graves墳墓 after 50 years年份.
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一個是,或許我們可以重新使用
已經埋了50年以上的墳墓。
02:47
Or maybe we can bury埋葬 people,
like, four deep,
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或者,或許我們在同一塊地
02:50
so that four people can be buried隱藏
in the same相同 plot情節,
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的四個不同深度埋四個人,
02:53
and we can make more efficient高效 use
of the land土地 that way,
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這樣就可以更有效率地使用那塊地,
02:55
and in that way, hopefully希望 London倫敦
will still have space空間 to bury埋葬 people
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這樣做之後,希望倫敦在短期內
還擁有足夠的墓地來埋葬人。
02:59
in the near future未來.
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03:01
But, traditionally傳統, cemeteries墓地
haven't沒有 been taken採取 care關心 of
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但是,傳統上,墓地從來沒有
被地方當權者重視過。
03:03
by the local本地 authority權威.
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03:05
In fact事實, the surprising奇怪 thing is that
there's no legal法律 obligation義務
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事實上,令人意想不到的是,
在英國任何人都沒有法律義務
必須要提供安葬空間。
03:08
on anyone任何人 in the UK聯合王國
to provide提供 burial葬禮 space空間.
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傳統上,都是私人和宗教組織在提供,
03:12
Traditionally傳統, it's been doneDONE
by private私人的 and religious宗教 organizations組織,
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03:17
like churches教堂 and mosques清真寺 and synagogues猶太教堂.
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比如教堂、清真寺以及猶太會堂,
03:20
But there's also occasionally偶爾
been a for-profit以營利為目的 group
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但偶爾也會有盈利組織
想要插花搞一下。
03:24
who has wanted to get in on the act法案.
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03:26
And, you know, they look at
the small size尺寸 of a burial葬禮 plot情節
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他們專注在小尺寸、
03:30
and that high cost成本,
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高單價的墓地,
03:31
and it looks容貌 like there's
serious嚴重 money to be made製作.
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這看起來似乎真的很有搞頭。
03:34
So, actually其實, if you want to go out
and start開始 your own擁有 cemetery公墓,
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所以,事實上,
如果你想開始經營自己的墳場,
你是可以辦到的。
03:38
you kind of can.
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03:39
There was this couple一對 in South Wales威爾士,
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有這麼一對南威爾士的夫妻,
03:41
and they had a farmhouse農家
and a load加載 of fields領域 next下一個 to it,
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他們有一個農舍,旁邊還有一大片地,
03:45
and they wanted to develop發展 the land土地.
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他們想要開發這塊地。
03:47
They had a load加載 of ideas思路.
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他們有很多的想法,
03:48
They first thought about making製造
a caravan大篷車 park公園,
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他們第一個想法是
做一個露營車公園,
03:51
but the council評議會 said no.
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但是地方議會說不行。
03:53
And then they wanted to make a fish farm農場
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然後他們想弄一個養魚場,
03:55
and again the council評議會 said no.
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地方議會還是說不行。
03:57
Then they hit擊中 on the idea理念
of making製造 a cemetery公墓
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然後他們想到了蓋墳場的主意,
04:00
and they calculated計算 that by doing this,
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他們計算過,如果這樣做
04:02
they could increase增加
the value of their land土地
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可以提升他們的土地價值。
04:05
from about 95,000 pounds英鎊
to over one million百萬 pounds英鎊.
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大概從 9.5萬英磅提升到
超過100萬英磅。
04:10
But just to come back to this idea理念
of making製造 profit利潤 from cemeteries墓地,
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但....回過頭來想想,
這個透過墳場來獲利的主意
04:15
like, it's kind of ludicrous滑稽的, right?
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好像有點荒唐可笑,對吧?
04:18
The thing is that the high cost成本
of those burial葬禮 plots地塊
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事情是這樣的,這些墓地的高單價
04:21
is actually其實 very misleading誤導.
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其實非常誤導人。
04:23
They look like they're expensive昂貴,
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它們看起來似乎很貴,
04:25
but that cost成本 reflects反映 the fact事實 that
you need to maintain保持 the burial葬禮 plot情節 --
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但這個價格也反映出一個事實
--你需要去維護這些墓地,
04:29
like, someone有人 has to cut the grass
for the next下一個 50 years年份.
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比如說,在接下來的50年裡
需要有人去除草。
04:33
That means手段 it's very difficult
to make money from cemeteries墓地.
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那就意味著很難從墓園中賺到錢。
04:36
And it's the reason原因 that normally一般
they're run by the council評議會
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這也是為什麼通常
這些墓園是被地方議會
04:39
or by a not-for-profit不以營利為目的 group.
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或者非盈利組織經營。
04:41
But anyway無論如何, the council評議會 granted理所當然
these people permission允許,
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但不管怎麼說,
這些人獲得了地方議會的批准,
04:43
and they're now trying
to build建立 their cemetery公墓.
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他們正在試著建造他們的墓園。
04:46
So just to explain說明 to you
kind of how this works作品:
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跟你們解釋一下這件事是如何操作的:
04:49
If I want to build建立 something in the UK聯合王國,
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在英國,如果我想蓋個什麼東西,
04:51
like a cemetery公墓 for example,
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比如說一個墓園,
04:53
then I have to apply應用
for planning規劃 permission允許 first.
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那麼我首先得申請規劃許可,
04:56
So if I want to build建立 a new
office辦公室 building建造 for a client客戶
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因此如果我想幫客戶
蓋一棟新的辦公大樓
05:01
or if I want to extend延伸 my home
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或是擴建自己的房屋,
05:03
or, you know, if I have a shop
and I want to convert兌換 it into an office辦公室,
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或者,如果我有一個商店,
想把它改成辦公室,
05:07
I have to do a load加載 of drawings圖紙,
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我得畫很多圖,
05:08
and I submit提交 them
to the council評議會 for permission允許.
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然後提交到地方議會去批准,
05:11
And they'll他們會 look at things like
how it fits適合 in the surroundings環境.
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然後他們會調查它與
周圍的環境是否搭配,
05:15
So they'll他們會 look at what it looks容貌 like.
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所以他們會仔細看
這個規劃長什麼樣子。
05:17
But they'll他們會 also think about things
like what impact碰撞 is it going to have
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但他們也會考慮
這將來會給當地環境
05:20
on the local本地 environment環境?
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帶來什麼樣的影響?
05:22
And they'll他們會 be thinking思維 about things like,
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他們也會考慮,比如說
05:24
is this thing going to cause原因 pollution污染
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這個規劃會導致污染嗎?
05:26
or is there going to be a lot of traffic交通
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或者會不會有很大的交通流量
05:28
that wants to go to this thing
that I've built內置?
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湧向我蓋好的標的物?
05:30
But also good things.
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但也會考慮正面的影響,
05:32
Is it going to add local本地 services服務
like shops商店 to the neighborhood鄰里
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它附近是否會增加像是商店這類
本地居民會想使用的服務設施?
05:35
that local本地 people would like to use?
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之後他們會權衡利弊,
05:38
And they'll他們會 weigh稱重 up the advantages優點
and the disadvantages缺點
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05:40
and they'll他們會 make a decision決定.
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然後做出決定。
05:42
So that's how it works作品 if I want
to build建立 a large cemetery公墓.
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所以,如果我想蓋一座大型墓園,
就得這樣操作。
但是如果我有一塊地,
05:47
But what if I've got a piece of land土地
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05:49
and I just want to bury埋葬
a few少數 people, like five or six?
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而我只想在裡面埋葬少數的人,
例如5或6個,又會怎樣?
05:53
Well, then -- actually其實, I don't need
permission允許 from anyone任何人!
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那麼,事實上,我不需要任何人批准!
05:57
There's actually其實 almost幾乎 no regulation
in the UK聯合王國 around burial葬禮,
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在英國實際上幾乎沒有
殯葬的相關規定,
06:02
and the little bit that there is,
is about not polluting污染 water courses培訓班,
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僅有的一點就是,不能污染水源,
06:05
like not polluting污染 rivers河流 or groundwater地下水.
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比如說不能污染河流或者地下水。
所以,如果你想建造你的小墓園,
06:08
So actually其實, if you want to go
and make your own擁有 mini-cemetery微型墓地,
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06:12
then you can.
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是沒問題的。
06:13
But I mean, like -- really,
who does this? Right?
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但我的意思是,說真的,
誰會這樣做?對吧?
如果你是一個貴族家庭
並且擁有大片土地,
06:18
Well, if you're an aristocratic貴族的 family家庭
and you have a large estate房地產,
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06:21
then there's a chance機會 that you'll你會
have a mausoleum on it,
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那麼你有機會蓋一個陵墓,
06:24
and you'll你會 bury埋葬 your family家庭 there.
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並將你的家族成員埋葬於此。
但真正奇怪的是
06:26
But the really weird奇怪的 thing
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06:28
is that you don't need to have
a piece of land土地 of a certain某些 size尺寸
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在你要開始埋葬一個人之前,
06:32
before you're allowed允許
to start開始 burying掩埋 people on it.
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你不需要擁有一塊某種大小的地。
06:34
And so that means手段 that, technically技術上,
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也就是說,技術上,
06:36
this applies適用 to, like, the back garden花園
of your house in the suburbs郊區.
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在你郊區家中的後花園也可以。
( 笑聲 )
06:40
(Laughter笑聲)
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06:42
So what if you wanted
to try this yourself你自己 at home?
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所以,如果你想要自己在家搞墓園,
要怎麼做呢?
06:46
Well, there's a few少數 councils議會
that have guidance指導 on their website網站
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是的,有一些地方議會網站上
是有些指引可以幫助你的。
06:50
which哪一個 can help you.
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06:51
So, the first thing that they tell you
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第一件事情他們會告訴你,
06:54
is that you need to have a certificate證書
of burial葬禮 before you can go ahead --
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在開始之前,你必須要有埋葬證書 -
06:57
you're not allowed允許 to just murder謀殺 people
and put them under the patio庭院.
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謀殺某些人然後把他們
埋在天井是行不通的。
07:01
(Laughter笑聲)
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( 笑聲 )
他們也會告訴,你要把
墳墓的位置紀錄下來。
07:04
They also tell you that you need to keep
a record記錄 of where the grave is.
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07:08
But that's pretty漂亮 much it
for formal正式 requirements要求.
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但這些只是正式的要求。
07:10
Now, they do warn警告 you that
your neighbors鄰居 might威力 not like this,
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他們還會警告你,
你的鄰居可能不會喜歡,
07:13
but, legally法律上 speaking請講, there's almost幾乎
nothing that they can do about it.
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但就法律而言,
他們幾乎一點也沒輒。
07:17
And just in case案件 any of you
still had that profit利潤 idea理念 in your mind心神
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但萬一你們任何人之中
仍有想賺錢的念頭呢?
07:22
about how much those burial葬禮 plots地塊 cost成本
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例如,這些墓地要花多少成本,
07:25
and how much money
you might威力 be able能夠 to make,
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然後大概可以賺多少,
07:27
they also warn警告 that it might威力 cause原因
the value of your house
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他們也會警告你,
你的計劃可能會造成房價
07:30
to drop下降 by 20 percent百分.
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下跌20%。
雖然事實上,在那之後
大概也沒人會想買你的房子
07:32
Although雖然, actually其實, it's more likely容易
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07:34
that no one will want to buy購買
your house at all after that.
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所以,我發現這件事迷人的地方
07:38
So what I find fascinating迷人 about this
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07:40
is the fact事實 that it kind of sums總和 up
many許多 of our attitudes態度 towards death死亡.
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就是它可以歸納出
社會大眾面對死亡的態度。
在英國,而我想在歐洲
應該也是差不多的數字,
07:46
In the UK聯合王國, and I think that the figures人物
across橫過 Europe歐洲 are probably大概 similar類似,
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07:50
only about 30 percent百分 of people
have ever talked to anyone任何人
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只有30%的人曾經與其他人
談論過關於死亡這件事的願望,
07:53
about their wishes祝福 around death死亡,
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甚至是超過75歲的人,
07:55
and even for people over 75,
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07:57
only 45 percent百分 of people
have ever talked about this.
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只有45%的人曾經討論過死亡。
而人們給的答案就是...你知道的,
08:01
And the reasons原因 that
people give ... you know,
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他們認為死亡離自己還很遠,
08:04
they think that their death死亡 is far off
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08:06
or they think that they're going
to make people uncomfortable不舒服
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或者他們認為,談論死亡
會讓對方不舒服。
08:08
by talking about it.
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而你也知道,在某種程度上,
08:10
And you know, to a certain某些 extent程度,
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08:12
there are other people out there
who are taking服用 care關心 of things for us.
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還有其他人在替我們關心這些事,
08:15
The government政府 has all this regulation
and bureaucracy官僚 around things
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政府有整套相關的規範及制度,
08:19
like burying掩埋 a death死亡, for example,
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例如,死亡埋葬法,
08:21
and there's people like funeral葬禮 directors董事
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還有葬儀社的人
08:23
who devote奉獻 their entire整個
working加工 lives生活 to this issue問題.
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貢獻他們所有的生命在這些事上。
08:26
But when it comes to our cities城市
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但一談到我們的城市,
08:27
and thinking思維 about how
death死亡 fits適合 in our cities城市,
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並想想死亡如何融入於我們的城市,
08:30
there's much less regulation
and design設計 and thought
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那些規範、設計及想法
比我們想像的還要少,
08:35
than we might威力 imagine想像.
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所以,我們現在沒有在想這些事,
08:36
So we're not thinking思維 about this,
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08:38
but all of the people we imagine想像
are thinking思維 about it --
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而且在我們想像中,
在想這些事情的人 -
基本上,他們也不會在乎的。
08:41
they're not taking服用 care關心 of it either.
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謝謝。
08:43
Thank you.
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08:44
(Applause掌聲)
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Translated by Yi-Fan Yu
Reviewed by Allen Kuo

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alison Killing - Architect
An architect and urban designer, Alison Killing uses journalism, filmmaking and exhibitions to help people better understand the built environment.

Why you should listen

Alison Killing is an architect and urban designer working to engage people with their built environment, via design of buildings and urban strategies, film making, exhibitions and events. She explores the relationship between death and modern architecture, looking at how cities are rebuilt after disaster.

Recent projects include Death in the City (and its first iteration, Death in Venice, which was shown as an independent event during the opening week of the Venice Architecture Biennale), a touring exhibition about death and modern architecture; work with the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies on better rebuilding after disaster and how to integrate relevant urban design tools into humanitarian response; and a study of financial models for arts and community projects temporarily using vacant buildings to help these projects become self-sustaining.

More profile about the speaker
Alison Killing | Speaker | TED.com