TEDGlobal 2014
Miguel Nicolelis: Brain-to-brain communication has arrived. How we did it
Migel Nikolelis (Miguel Nicolelis): Direktna komunikacija mozgovima je stigla. Kako smo to postigli
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Možda se sećate neuronaučnika Migela Nikolelisa - napravio je egzoskelet koga kontroliše um, koji je omogućio paralisanom čoveku da zada početni udarac na Svetskom prvenstvu 2014. Na čemu sada radi? Stvara uslove da dva uma (pacova i majmuna, za sada) pošalju poruke mozgovima. Odgledajte do kraja zbog eksperimenta koji, kako on to kaže, ide do "samih granica vaše mašte".
Miguel Nicolelis - Neuroscientist
Miguel Nicolelis explores the limits of the brain-machine interface. Full bio
Miguel Nicolelis explores the limits of the brain-machine interface. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
On June 12, 2014, precisely at 3:33
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Na dan 12. juna 2014, tačno u 3:33h
00:18
in a balmy winter afternoon
in São Paulo, Brazil,
in São Paulo, Brazil,
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prijatnog zimskog popodneva
u Sao Paulu u Brazilu,
u Sao Paulu u Brazilu,
00:23
a typical South American winter afternoon,
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tipičnog južnoameričkog
zimskog popodneva,
zimskog popodneva,
00:26
this kid, this young man
that you see celebrating here
that you see celebrating here
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ovo dete, ovaj mladić,
koga vidite kako slavi ovde
koga vidite kako slavi ovde
00:29
like he had scored a goal,
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kao da je postigao gol,
00:31
Juliano Pinto, 29 years old,
accomplished a magnificent deed.
accomplished a magnificent deed.
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Žulijano Pinto, star 29 godina,
ostvario je veličanstven uspeh.
ostvario je veličanstven uspeh.
00:38
Despite being paralyzed
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Iako je paralizovan
i nema nikakvog osećaja od polovine grudi
do vrhova prstiju na nogama,
do vrhova prstiju na nogama,
00:40
and not having any sensation
from mid-chest to the tip of his toes
from mid-chest to the tip of his toes
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00:45
as the result of a car crash six years ago
that killed his brother
that killed his brother
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što je posledica saobraćajne nesreće
od pre šest godina,
od pre šest godina,
u kojoj mu je poginuo brat
00:49
and produced a complete spinal cord lesion
that left Juliano in a wheelchair,
that left Juliano in a wheelchair,
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i koja je uzrokovala potpunu leziju kičme,
ostavljajući Žulijana u kolicima.
ostavljajući Žulijana u kolicima.
00:57
Juliano rose to the occasion,
and on this day did something
and on this day did something
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Žulijano se pokazao doraslim izazovu,
i toga dana je uradio nešto
i toga dana je uradio nešto
01:02
that pretty much everybody that saw him
in the six years deemed impossible.
in the six years deemed impossible.
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što su svi, koji su ga gledali
ovih šest godina, smatrali nemogućim.
ovih šest godina, smatrali nemogućim.
01:09
Juliano Pinto delivered the opening kick
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Žulijano Pinto je zadao početni udarac
01:14
of the 2014 Brazilian
World Soccer Cup here
World Soccer Cup here
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na Svetskom fudbalskom prvenstvu 2014.
ovde u Brazilu,
ovde u Brazilu,
01:20
just by thinking.
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i to samo razmišljajući.
01:22
He could not move his body,
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Nije mogao da pomeri telo,
01:24
but he could imagine the movements
needed to kick a ball.
needed to kick a ball.
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ali mogao je da zamisli pokrete
neophodne za šut.
neophodne za šut.
01:29
He was an athlete before the lesion.
He's a para-athlete right now.
He's a para-athlete right now.
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Bio je sportista pre lezije.
Sada je parasportista.
Sada je parasportista.
01:32
He's going to be in the Paralympic Games,
I hope, in a couple years.
I hope, in a couple years.
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Učestvovaće na Paraolimpijadi,
nadam se, za par godina.
nadam se, za par godina.
01:36
But what the spinal cord lesion
did not rob from Juliano
did not rob from Juliano
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Ali ono što lezija kičmene moždine
nije oduzela Žulijanu
nije oduzela Žulijanu
01:40
was his ability to dream.
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je njegova sposobnost da sanja.
01:43
And dream he did that afternoon,
for a stadium of about 75,000 people
for a stadium of about 75,000 people
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A zaista je dosanjao tog popodneva,
na stadionu pred 75,000 ljudi
na stadionu pred 75,000 ljudi
01:49
and an audience of close to a billion
watching on TV.
watching on TV.
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i pred publikom od skoro milijardu
koji su gledali preko TV-a.
koji su gledali preko TV-a.
01:54
And that kick crowned, basically,
30 years of basic research
30 years of basic research
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I taj šut je praktično krunisao
30 godina temeljnog istraživanja,
30 godina temeljnog istraživanja,
02:00
studying how the brain,
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izučavanja kako mozak,
02:02
how this amazing universe
that we have between our ears
that we have between our ears
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kako ovaj neverovatni univerzum
između naših ušiju,
između naših ušiju,
02:06
that is only comparable to universe
that we have above our head
that we have above our head
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koji je jedino uporediv
s univerzumom nad nama
s univerzumom nad nama
02:10
because it has about 100 billion elements
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jer ima oko 100 milijardi elemenata
02:13
talking to each other
through electrical brainstorms,
through electrical brainstorms,
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koji razgovaraju međusobno
preko električnih talasa.
preko električnih talasa.
02:16
what Juliano accomplished
took 30 years to imagine in laboratories
took 30 years to imagine in laboratories
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Žulijanovo dostignuće je 30 godina
osmišljavano u laboratorijama
osmišljavano u laboratorijama
02:21
and about 15 years to plan.
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i trebalo je 15 godina da se isplanira.
02:24
When John Chapin and I,
15 years ago, proposed in a paper
15 years ago, proposed in a paper
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Kada smo Džon Čapin i ja,
pre 15 godina, u naučnom radu izjavili
pre 15 godina, u naučnom radu izjavili
02:28
that we would build something
that we called a brain-machine interface,
that we called a brain-machine interface,
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da ćemo da sagradimo nešto što smo zvali
interfejs za um i mašinu,
interfejs za um i mašinu,
02:33
meaning connecting a brain to devices
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što je podrazumevalo povezivanje
mozga i uređaja,
mozga i uređaja,
02:36
so that animals and humans
could just move these devices,
could just move these devices,
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kako bi životinje i ljudi
mogli da pomeraju te uređaje,
mogli da pomeraju te uređaje,
02:40
no matter how far they are
from their own bodies,
from their own bodies,
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ma koliko bili daleko od svojih tela,
02:42
just by imagining what they want to do,
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samo zamišljajući šta žele da urade.
02:44
our colleagues told us that
we actually needed professional help,
we actually needed professional help,
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Kolege su nam rekle
da nam je zapravo potrebna stručna pomoć,
da nam je zapravo potrebna stručna pomoć,
02:49
of the psychiatry variety.
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psihijatrijske struke.
02:52
And despite that,
a Scot and a Brazilian persevered,
a Scot and a Brazilian persevered,
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I uprkos tome,
Škot i Brazilac su bili istrajni
Škot i Brazilac su bili istrajni
02:57
because that's how we were raised
in our respective countries,
in our respective countries,
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jer su nas tako vaspitali
u našim cenjenim zemljama,
u našim cenjenim zemljama,
03:02
and for 12, 15 years,
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i između 12 i 15 godina,
03:04
we made demonstration after demonstration
suggesting that this was possible.
suggesting that this was possible.
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radili smo probu za probom,
nagoveštavajući da je ovo moguće.
nagoveštavajući da je ovo moguće.
03:08
And a brain-machine interface
is not rocket science,
is not rocket science,
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A interfejs za um i mašinu
nije naučna fantastika,
nije naučna fantastika,
03:11
it's just brain research.
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to je prosto izučavanje mozga.
03:13
It's nothing but using sensors
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To je prosto korišćenje senzora
03:16
to read the electrical brainstorms
that a brain is producing
that a brain is producing
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koji čitaju električne moždane talase
proizvedene u mozgu
proizvedene u mozgu
03:19
to generate the motor commands
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kako bi proizveli motorne komande
03:21
that have to be downloaded
to the spinal cord,
to the spinal cord,
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koje moraju da se očitaju
u kičmenoj moždini.
u kičmenoj moždini.
03:24
so we projected sensors that can read
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Pa smo projektovali senzore
koji mogu da čitaju
koji mogu da čitaju
03:26
hundreds and now thousands
of these brain cells simultaneously,
of these brain cells simultaneously,
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na stotine, a sada na hiljade,
ovih moždanih ćelija istovremeno
ovih moždanih ćelija istovremeno
03:30
and extract from these electrical signals
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i da izdvoje iz ovih električnih signala
03:33
the motor planning
that the brain is generating
that the brain is generating
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motorno planiranje
koje se dešava u mozgu
koje se dešava u mozgu
03:36
to actually make us move into space.
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zbog koga se zapravo pomeramo u prostoru.
03:39
And by doing that, we converted
these signals into digital commands
these signals into digital commands
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Tim smo postupkom pretvorili
ove signale u digitalne komande
ove signale u digitalne komande
03:42
that any mechanical, electronic,
or even a virtual device can understand
or even a virtual device can understand
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koje bilo koji mehanički, elektronski
ili pak virtuelni uređaj može razumeti.
ili pak virtuelni uređaj može razumeti.
03:47
so that the subject can imagine
what he, she or it wants to make move,
what he, she or it wants to make move,
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Tako subjekat može da zamisli
šta on, ona ili ono želi da pomeri,
šta on, ona ili ono želi da pomeri,
03:54
and the device obeys that brain command.
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i uređaj se povinuje toj komandi.
03:57
By sensorizing these devices
with lots of different types of sensors,
with lots of different types of sensors,
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Opskrbljavajući ove uređaje
s mnogo različitih tipova senzora,
s mnogo različitih tipova senzora,
04:01
as you are going to see in a moment,
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kao što ćete uskoro i da vidite,
04:03
we actually sent messages
back to the brain to confirm
back to the brain to confirm
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zapravo smo poslali poruke
nazad u mozak da bismo potvrdili
nazad u mozak da bismo potvrdili
04:07
that that voluntary motor will
was being enacted, no matter where --
was being enacted, no matter where --
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da se odigrava slobodna motorna volja,
bez obzira na to gde ste -
bez obzira na to gde ste -
04:11
next to the subject, next door,
or across the planet.
or across the planet.
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pored subjekta, u komšiluku
ili na drugoj strani sveta.
ili na drugoj strani sveta.
04:16
And as this message gave feedback
back to the brain,
back to the brain,
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I kada ova poruka pošalje
povratnu informaciju mozgu,
povratnu informaciju mozgu,
04:19
the brain realized its goal:
to make us move.
to make us move.
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mozak postaje svestan svog cilja:
pokretanje tela.
pokretanje tela.
04:23
So this is just one experiment
that we published a few years ago,
that we published a few years ago,
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Ovo je samo jedan eksperiment
koji smo objavili pre nekoliko godina,
koji smo objavili pre nekoliko godina,
04:27
where a monkey, without moving its body,
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u kome je majmun, bez pokretanja tela,
04:29
learned to control the movements
of an avatar arm,
of an avatar arm,
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naučio da kontroliše pokrete
avatarske ruke,
avatarske ruke,
04:33
a virtual arm that doesn't exist.
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virtuelne ruke koja ne postoji.
04:35
What you're listening to
is the sound of the brain of this monkey
is the sound of the brain of this monkey
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Ono što čujete je zvuk mozga ovog majmuna
04:39
as it explores three different
visually identical spheres
visually identical spheres
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dok istražuje tri različite,
mada vizuelno identične sfere
mada vizuelno identične sfere
04:43
in virtual space.
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u virtuelnom prostoru.
04:45
And to get a reward,
a drop of orange juice that monkeys love,
a drop of orange juice that monkeys love,
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A da bi dobio nagradu, kap soka
od pomorandže, koga majmuni obožavaju,
od pomorandže, koga majmuni obožavaju,
04:49
this animal has to detect,
select one of these objects
select one of these objects
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ova životinja mora da otkrije,
da izabere jedan od ovih objekata
da izabere jedan od ovih objekata
04:52
by touching,
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dodirivanjem,
04:54
not by seeing it, by touching it,
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ne gledanjem, već dodirivanjem,
04:56
because every time this virtual hand
touches one of the objects,
touches one of the objects,
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jer svaki put kada ova virtuelna ruka
dodirne jedan od objekata,
dodirne jedan od objekata,
04:59
an electrical pulse goes back
to the brain of the animal
to the brain of the animal
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električni impuls se vraća
u mozak životinje
u mozak životinje
05:02
describing the fine texture
of the surface of this object,
of the surface of this object,
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opisujući finu teksturu
površine ovog objekta,
površine ovog objekta,
05:06
so the animal can judge what is
the correct object that he has to grab,
the correct object that he has to grab,
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te životinja može da proceni
koji je pravi objekat koji mora da zgrabi,
koji je pravi objekat koji mora da zgrabi,
05:10
and if he does that, he gets a reward
without moving a muscle.
without moving a muscle.
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a ako tako postupi, dobija nagradu,
ne pomerivši ni jedan mišić.
ne pomerivši ni jedan mišić.
05:16
The perfect Brazilian lunch:
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Savršen brazilski ručak:
05:18
not moving a muscle
and getting your orange juice.
and getting your orange juice.
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ne pomeriš ni jedan mišić,
a dobiješ sok od pomorandže.
a dobiješ sok od pomorandže.
05:22
So as we saw this happening,
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Kako smo videli da ovo deluje,
05:25
we actually came and proposed the idea
that we had published 15 years ago.
that we had published 15 years ago.
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zapravo smo se vratili i predložili ideju
koju smo objavili pre 15 godina.
koju smo objavili pre 15 godina.
05:29
We reenacted this paper.
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Ova studija je ponovo stupila na snagu.
05:31
We got it out of the drawers,
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Izvadili smo je iz fioke,
05:33
and we proposed that perhaps we could get
a human being that is paralyzed
a human being that is paralyzed
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i predložili smo da bismo možda mogli
da navedemo paralisano ljudsko biće
da navedemo paralisano ljudsko biće
05:37
to actually use the brain-machine
interface to regain mobility.
interface to regain mobility.
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da koristi interfejs za um i mašinu
kako bi povratilo pokretljivost.
kako bi povratilo pokretljivost.
05:42
The idea was that if you suffered --
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Zamisao je da, ako ste pretrpeli -
05:44
and that can happen to any one of us.
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a to se može desiti svakome od nas.
05:46
Let me tell you, it's very sudden.
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Da vam kažem, to se iznenada desi.
05:48
It's a millisecond of a collision,
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To je sudar u milisekundi,
05:50
a car accident that
transforms your life completely.
transforms your life completely.
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automobilska nesreća
koja vam u potpunosti promeni život.
koja vam u potpunosti promeni život.
05:53
If you have a complete lesion
of the spinal cord,
of the spinal cord,
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Ako imate potpunu leziju kičmene moždine,
05:56
you cannot move because your brainstorms
cannot reach your muscles.
cannot reach your muscles.
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ne možete da se pomerate jer
moždani talasi ne stižu do vaših mišića.
moždani talasi ne stižu do vaših mišića.
06:00
However, your brainstorms
continue to be generated in your head.
continue to be generated in your head.
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Ipak, vaši moždani talasi nastavljaju
da se stvaraju u vašoj glavi.
da se stvaraju u vašoj glavi.
06:04
Paraplegic, quadriplegic patients
dream about moving every night.
dream about moving every night.
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Pacijenti paraplegičari, kvadriplegičari
svake noći sanjaju da se pokreću.
svake noći sanjaju da se pokreću.
06:08
They have that inside their head.
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To im je u glavi.
06:10
The problem is how
to get that code out of it
to get that code out of it
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Problem je kako preneti taj kod napolje
06:13
and make the movement be created again.
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i učiniti da se taj pokret ponovo izvede.
06:16
So what we proposed was,
let's create a new body.
let's create a new body.
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Pa smo predložili da napravimo novo telo.
06:19
Let's create a robotic vest.
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Hajde da napravimo robotski prsluk.
06:21
And that's exactly why Juliano could
kick that ball just by thinking,
kick that ball just by thinking,
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I baš zbog toga je Žulijano mogao
da šutne loptu, samo razmišljajući,
da šutne loptu, samo razmišljajući,
06:26
because he was wearing
the first brain-controlled robotic vest
the first brain-controlled robotic vest
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jer je nosio prvi robotski prsluk
koga kontroliše mozak,
koga kontroliše mozak,
06:30
that can be used by paraplegic,
quadriplegic patients to move
quadriplegic patients to move
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a koji mogu da koriste paraplegičari,
kvadriplegičari da bi se kretali
kvadriplegičari da bi se kretali
06:34
and to regain feedback.
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i da bi povratili osećaj dodira.
06:35
That was the original idea, 15 years ago.
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To je bila osnovna zamisao pre 15 godina.
06:38
What I'm going to show you is how
156 people from 25 countries
156 people from 25 countries
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Sada ću vam pokazati
kako je 156 ljudi iz 25 država
kako je 156 ljudi iz 25 država
06:44
all over the five continents
of this beautiful Earth,
of this beautiful Earth,
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sa svih pet kontinenata ove divne Zemlje,
06:47
dropped their lives,
dropped their patents,
dropped their patents,
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napustilo svoje svakodnevene živote,
napustilo svoje patente,
napustilo svoje patente,
06:50
dropped their dogs, wives,
kids, school, jobs,
kids, school, jobs,
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napustilo svoje pse, supruge,
decu, školu, posao
decu, školu, posao
06:54
and congregated to come to Brazil
for 18 months to actually get this done.
for 18 months to actually get this done.
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i kako su se okupili u Brazilu
na 18 meseci kako bismo ovo ostvarili.
na 18 meseci kako bismo ovo ostvarili.
06:59
Because a couple years after Brazil
was awarded the World Cup,
was awarded the World Cup,
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Jer smo, nekoliko godina nakon što je
Brazilu dodeljeno Svetsko prvenstvo,
Brazilu dodeljeno Svetsko prvenstvo,
07:03
we heard that the Brazilian government
wanted to do something meaningful
wanted to do something meaningful
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čuli da brazilska vlada
želi da učini nešto značajno
želi da učini nešto značajno
07:07
in the opening ceremony
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na ceremoniji otvaranja,
07:08
in the country that reinvented
and perfected soccer
and perfected soccer
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u zemlji koja je
nanovo izmislila i usavršila fudbal,
nanovo izmislila i usavršila fudbal,
07:12
until we met the Germans, of course.
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sve dok nismo sreli Nemce, naravno.
07:14
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
07:16
But that's a different talk,
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No to je druga tema,
07:18
and a different neuroscientist
needs to talk about that.
needs to talk about that.
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i drugačiji neuronaučnik
bi trebalo da govori o tome.
bi trebalo da govori o tome.
07:22
But what Brazil wanted to do
is to showcase
is to showcase
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Ali Brazil je želeo da se pokaže
07:24
a completely different country,
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u potpuno novom svetlu,
07:25
a country that values science
and technology,
and technology,
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kao država koja ceni nauku i tehnologiju
07:28
and can give a gift to millions,
25 million people around the world
25 million people around the world
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i da može da ponudi poklon milionima,
za 25 miliona ljudi širom sveta,
za 25 miliona ljudi širom sveta,
07:32
that cannot move any longer
because of a spinal cord injury.
because of a spinal cord injury.
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koji se više ne mogu pokretati
zbog povrede kičmene moždine.
zbog povrede kičmene moždine.
07:35
Well, we went to the Brazilian government
and to FIFA and proposed,
and to FIFA and proposed,
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Otišli smo u brazilsku vladu
i u FIFA-u i predložili,
i u FIFA-u i predložili,
07:39
well, let's have the kickoff
of the 2014 World Cup
of the 2014 World Cup
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hajde da početni udarac
Svetskog kupa 2014.
Svetskog kupa 2014.
07:42
be given by a Brazilian paraplegic
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zada brazilski paraplegičar,
07:44
using a brain-controlled exoskeleton
that allows him to kick the ball
that allows him to kick the ball
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koristeći umom kontrolisan egzoskelet
koji mu omogućuje da šutira loptu
koji mu omogućuje da šutira loptu
07:49
and to feel the contact of the ball.
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i da oseti kontakt s loptom.
07:52
They looked at us,
thought that we were completely nuts,
thought that we were completely nuts,
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Pogledali su nas,
pomislili su da smo načisto poludeli
pomislili su da smo načisto poludeli
07:54
and said, "Okay, let's try."
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i rekli: "Važi, pokušajmo to."
07:57
We had 18 months to do everything
from zero, from scratch.
from zero, from scratch.
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Imali smo 18 meseci da sve uradimo
od nule, od početka.
od nule, od početka.
08:01
We had no exoskeleton, we had no patients,
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Nismo imali egzoskelet,
nismo imali pacijente,
nismo imali pacijente,
08:04
we had nothing done.
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nismo imali ništa gotovo.
08:06
These people came all together
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Ovi su se ljudi okupili
08:08
and in 18 months, we got eight patients
in a routine of training
in a routine of training
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i za 18 meseci, imali smo osam pacijenata
koji su vežbali
koji su vežbali
08:12
and basically built from nothing this guy,
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i praktično smo iz ničega
sagradili ovog momka,
sagradili ovog momka,
08:16
that we call Bra-Santos Dumont 1.
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koga smo nazvali Bra-Santos Dumon 1.
08:21
The first brain-controlled
exoskeleton to be built
exoskeleton to be built
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Prvi ikada napravljeni egzoskelet
koga kontroliše um
koga kontroliše um
08:24
was named after the most famous
Brazilian scientist ever,
Brazilian scientist ever,
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je nazvan po najpoznatijem
brazilskom naučniku,
brazilskom naučniku,
08:28
Alberto Santos Dumont,
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Albertu Santosu Dumonu,
08:30
who, on October 19, 1901,
created and flew himself
created and flew himself
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koji je 19. oktobra 1901.
napravio i sam upravljao
napravio i sam upravljao
08:36
the first controlled airship on air
in Paris for a million people to see.
in Paris for a million people to see.
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prvim pilotnim avionom, u vazduhu
u Parizu na očigled milion ljudi.
u Parizu na očigled milion ljudi.
08:43
Sorry, my American friends,
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Izvinjavam se, moji američki prijatelji,
08:45
I live in North Carolina,
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živim u Severnoj Karolini,
08:47
but it was two years
before the Wright Brothers flew
before the Wright Brothers flew
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ali ovo je bilo dve godine
pre nego što su braća Rajt letela
pre nego što su braća Rajt letela
08:52
on the coast of North Carolina.
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obalom Severne Karoline.
08:54
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
08:57
Flight control is Brazilian.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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Brazilci su gospodari letenja.
(Smeh)
(Smeh)
09:02
So we went together with these guys
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Sastali smo se sa ovim momcima
09:05
and we basically put
this exoskeleton together,
this exoskeleton together,
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i u suštini smo sastavili ovaj egzoskelet
09:08
15 degrees of freedom,
hydraulic machine
hydraulic machine
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ovih 15 stepeni slobode,
hidrauličnu mašinu
hidrauličnu mašinu
09:11
that can be commanded by brain signals
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kojom upravljaju moždani signali
09:14
recorded by a non-invasive technology
called electroencephalography
called electroencephalography
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snimljeni neinvazivnom tehnologijom,
koja se zove elektroencefalografija
koja se zove elektroencefalografija
09:18
that can basically allow the patient
to imagine the movements
to imagine the movements
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koja u suštini omogućuje pacijentu
da zamisli pokrete
da zamisli pokrete
09:22
and send his commands
to the controls, the motors,
to the controls, the motors,
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i pošalje svoje komande
upravljačima, motorima
upravljačima, motorima
09:26
and get it done.
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i da to i obavi.
09:27
This exoskeleton was covered
with an artificial skin
with an artificial skin
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Ovaj egzoskelet
je prekriven veštačkom kožom
je prekriven veštačkom kožom
09:30
invented by Gordon Cheng,
one of my greatest friends, in Munich,
one of my greatest friends, in Munich,
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koju je izumeo Gordon Čeng iz Minhena,
jedan od mojih najboljih prijatelja,
jedan od mojih najboljih prijatelja,
09:34
to allow sensation from the joints moving
and the foot touching the ground
and the foot touching the ground
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kako bi omogućio da osećaj
pokretanja zglobova i dodirivanja tla
pokretanja zglobova i dodirivanja tla
09:39
to be delivered back to the patient
through a vest, a shirt.
through a vest, a shirt.
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bude vraćen pacijentu
preko prsluka, košulje.
preko prsluka, košulje.
09:43
It is a smart shirt
with micro-vibrating elements
with micro-vibrating elements
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To je pametna košulja
sa mikrovibrirajućim elementima
sa mikrovibrirajućim elementima
09:46
that basically delivers the feedback
and fools the patient's brain
and fools the patient's brain
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koja u suštini dostavlja povratnu
informaciju i obmanjuje mozak pacijenta
informaciju i obmanjuje mozak pacijenta
09:51
by creating a sensation that it is not
a machine that is carrying him,
a machine that is carrying him,
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tako što stvara osećaj
da ga ne nosi mašina,
da ga ne nosi mašina,
09:55
but it is he who is walking again.
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već da on sam hoda ponovo.
09:58
So we got this going,
and what you'll see here
and what you'll see here
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Tako smo ovo pokrenuli
i ono što ćete ovde da vidite
i ono što ćete ovde da vidite
10:01
is the first time one of our patients,
Bruno, actually walked.
Bruno, actually walked.
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je prvi put da je jedan od naših
pacijenata, Bruno, zapravo hodao.
pacijenata, Bruno, zapravo hodao.
10:06
And he takes a few seconds
because we are setting everything,
because we are setting everything,
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Potrebno mu je nekoliko sekundi
jer moramo sve da podesimo,
jer moramo sve da podesimo,
10:08
and you are going to see a blue light
cutting in front of the helmet
cutting in front of the helmet
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i videćete plavo svetlo
kako blešti ispred šlema
kako blešti ispred šlema
jer Bruno mora da zamisli pokret
koji bi trebalo izvesti,
koji bi trebalo izvesti,
10:12
because Bruno is going to imagine
the movement that needs to be performed,
the movement that needs to be performed,
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10:16
the computer is going to analyze it,
Bruno is going to certify it,
Bruno is going to certify it,
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kompjuter će to da analizira,
Bruno će da potvrdi,
Bruno će da potvrdi,
10:19
and when it is certified,
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i nakon potvrde,
10:21
the device starts moving
under the command of Bruno's brain.
under the command of Bruno's brain.
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uređaj počinje da se kreće
pod komandom Brunovog uma.
pod komandom Brunovog uma.
10:24
And he just got it right,
and now he starts walking.
and now he starts walking.
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Upravo je uspeo
i sada počinje da se kreće.
i sada počinje da se kreće.
10:29
After nine years without
being able to move,
being able to move,
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Posle devet godina nepokretnosti,
10:32
he is walking by himself.
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sada sam može da hoda.
10:34
And more than that --
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I više od toga -
10:36
(Applause) --
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(Aplauz) -
10:39
more than just walking,
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ne samo da hoda,
10:41
he is feeling the ground,
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on oseća tlo pod nogama,
10:43
and if the speed of the exo goes up,
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a ako egzoskelet ubrza,
10:45
he tells us that he is walking again
on the sand of Santos,
on the sand of Santos,
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kaže nam kako ponovo hoda
po pesku Santosa,
po pesku Santosa,
10:50
the beach resort where he used to go
before he had the accident.
before he had the accident.
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odmarališta na plaži
gde je išao pre nesreće.
gde je išao pre nesreće.
10:54
That's why the brain is creating
a new sensation in Bruno's head.
a new sensation in Bruno's head.
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To je zato što mozak stvara
novi osećaj u Brunovoj glavi.
novi osećaj u Brunovoj glavi.
10:57
So he walks, and at the end of the walk --
I am running out of time already --
I am running out of time already --
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Dakle, on hoda, a pred kraj šetnje -
već mi ističe vreme -
već mi ističe vreme -
11:01
he says, "You know, guys,
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kaže: "Znate, ljudi,
11:04
I need to borrow this thing from you
when I get married,
when I get married,
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moraću da pozajmim od vas ovu stvar
kad se budem ženio,
kad se budem ženio,
11:06
because I wanted to walk to the priest
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jer želim da odšetam do sveštenika
11:09
and see my bride and actually
be there by myself.
be there by myself.
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i da vidim svoju nevestu
i zapravo da sam stojim tamo."
i zapravo da sam stojim tamo."
11:13
Of course, he will have it
whenever he wants.
whenever he wants.
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Naravno da može da ga koristi,
kad god poželi.
kad god poželi.
11:16
And this is what we wanted to show
during the World Cup, and couldn't,
during the World Cup, and couldn't,
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Ovo smo želeli da pokažemo za vreme
Svetskog prvenstva, ali nismo mogli,
Svetskog prvenstva, ali nismo mogli,
11:20
because for some mysterious reason,
FIFA cut its broadcast in half.
FIFA cut its broadcast in half.
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jer je FIFA, iz tajanstvenih razloga,
skratila prenos na pola.
skratila prenos na pola.
11:25
What you are going to see very quickly
is Juliano Pinto in the exo doing the kick
is Juliano Pinto in the exo doing the kick
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Na brzinu ćete da vidite kako
Žulijano Pinto u egzoskeletu izvodi šut,
Žulijano Pinto u egzoskeletu izvodi šut,
11:33
a few minutes before we went to the pitch
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nekoliko minuta
pre nego što smo izašli na teren
pre nego što smo izašli na teren
11:35
and did the real thing
in front of the entire crowd,
in front of the entire crowd,
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i to zvanično odradili
pred celokupnom publikom,
pred celokupnom publikom,
11:38
and the lights you are going to see
just describe the operation.
just describe the operation.
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a svetla koja ćete da vidite
samo ilustruju proces.
samo ilustruju proces.
11:41
Basically, the blue lights pulsating
indicate that the exo is ready to go.
indicate that the exo is ready to go.
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U suštini, plava pulsirajuća svetla
signaliziraju da je egzoskelet spreman.
signaliziraju da je egzoskelet spreman.
11:46
It can receive thoughts
and it can deliver feedback,
and it can deliver feedback,
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Može da prima misli
i da dostavi povratnu informaciju,
i da dostavi povratnu informaciju,
11:49
and when Juliano
makes the decision to kick the ball,
makes the decision to kick the ball,
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pa kada Žulijano odluči da šutira loptu,
11:52
you are going to see
two streams of green and yellow light
two streams of green and yellow light
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videćete dva snopa zelene i žute svetlosti
11:55
coming from the helmet
and going to the legs,
and going to the legs,
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koji se kreću od šlema do nogu,
11:58
representing the mental commands
that were taken by the exo
that were taken by the exo
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a koji predstavljaju mentalne komande
koje je preuzeo egzoskelet
koje je preuzeo egzoskelet
12:02
to actually make that happen.
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kako bi ih realizovao.
12:04
And in basically 13 seconds,
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I za 13 sekundi,
12:07
Juliano actually did.
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Žulijano ih jeste realizovao.
12:09
You can see the commands.
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Vidite komande.
12:11
He gets ready,
the ball is set, and he kicks.
the ball is set, and he kicks.
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On se priprema,
lopta je spremna i on šutira.
lopta je spremna i on šutira.
12:15
And the most amazing thing is,
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A najneverovatnije je
12:17
10 seconds after he did that,
and looked at us on the pitch,
and looked at us on the pitch,
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da je 10 sekundi kasnije,
pogledao u nas na terenu,
pogledao u nas na terenu,
12:20
he told us, celebrating as you saw,
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rekao nam, slaveći, kao što ste videli:
12:22
"I felt the ball."
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"Osetio sam loptu."
12:25
And that's priceless.
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A to je neprocenjivo.
12:27
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
12:29
So where is this going to go?
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Kuda sve ovo vodi?
12:31
I have two minutes to tell you
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Imam dva minuta da vam kažem
12:33
that it's going to the limits
of your imagination.
of your imagination.
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da nas vodi
do krajnjih granica naše mašte.
do krajnjih granica naše mašte.
12:36
Brain-actuating technology is here.
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Tehnologija upravljanja
uz pomoć uma je tu.
uz pomoć uma je tu.
12:38
This is the latest: We just
published this a year ago,
published this a year ago,
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Ovo je najsvežije: objavljeno je
pre samo godinu dana,
pre samo godinu dana,
12:41
the first brain-to-brain interface
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prvi interfejs za dva mozga
12:43
that allows two animals
to exchange mental messages
to exchange mental messages
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koji omogućuje dvema životinjama
da razmenjuju mentalne poruke
da razmenjuju mentalne poruke
12:46
so that one animal that sees something
coming from the environment
coming from the environment
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tako da životinja
koja nešto vidi u okolini
koja nešto vidi u okolini
12:50
can send a mental SMS,
a torpedo, a neurophysiological torpedo,
a torpedo, a neurophysiological torpedo,
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može da pošalje mentalni SMS,
torpedo, neurofiziološki torpedo,
torpedo, neurofiziološki torpedo,
12:56
to the second animal,
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drugoj životinji,
12:57
and the second animal performs
the act that he needed to perform
the act that he needed to perform
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a druga životinja uradi
ono što je neophodno da uradi,
ono što je neophodno da uradi,
13:01
without ever knowing what
the environment was sending as a message,
the environment was sending as a message,
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a da ni ne zna
kakvu joj poruku okolina šalje,
kakvu joj poruku okolina šalje,
13:05
because the message came
from the first animal's brain.
from the first animal's brain.
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jer je poruka stigla
iz mozga prve životinje.
iz mozga prve životinje.
13:09
So this is the first demo.
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Ovo je prvi demo snimak.
13:11
I'm going to be very quick
because I want to show you the latest.
because I want to show you the latest.
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Biću veoma brz
jer želim da vam prikažem najnoviji.
jer želim da vam prikažem najnoviji.
13:15
But what you see here
is the first rat getting informed
is the first rat getting informed
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Ovde vidite
kako prvi pacov dobija informaciju,
kako prvi pacov dobija informaciju,
13:21
by a light that is going to show up
on the left of the cage
on the left of the cage
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uz pomoć svetla koje se vidi
na levoj strani kaveza,
na levoj strani kaveza,
13:24
that he has to press the left cage
to basically get a reward.
to basically get a reward.
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da mora da pritisne levu polugu
da bi dobio nagradu.
da bi dobio nagradu.
13:27
He goes there and does it.
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On odlazi i tako i radi.
13:29
And the same time,
he is sending a mental message
he is sending a mental message
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Istovremeno šalje mentalnu poruku
13:31
to the second rat
that didn't see any light,
that didn't see any light,
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drugom pacovu
koji nije video nikakvo svetlo,
koji nije video nikakvo svetlo,
13:35
and the second rat,
in 70 percent of the times
in 70 percent of the times
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i drugi pacov će, u 70 posto slučajeva,
13:37
is going to press the left lever
and get a reward
and get a reward
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da pritisne levu polugu
i da dobije nagradu,
i da dobije nagradu,
13:41
without ever experiencing
the light in the retina.
the light in the retina.
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a da njegova mrežnjača
nikada nije osetila svetlo.
nikada nije osetila svetlo.
13:45
Well, we took this
to a little higher limit
to a little higher limit
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4134
Otišli smo korak dalje
13:49
by getting monkeys to collaborate
mentally in a brain net,
mentally in a brain net,
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4732
tako što smo naveli majmune
da sarađuju, umreživši njihove mozgove,
da sarađuju, umreživši njihove mozgove,
13:54
basically to donate their brain activity
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da u suštini predaju
svoju moždanu aktivnost
svoju moždanu aktivnost
13:56
and combine them to move
the virtual arm that I showed you before,
the virtual arm that I showed you before,
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i da je kombinuju da bi pokrenuli
virtuelnu ruku koju sam pokazao malopre,
virtuelnu ruku koju sam pokazao malopre,
14:00
and what you see here is the first time
the two monkeys combine their brains,
the two monkeys combine their brains,
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i ovde vidite kako majmuni
prvi put udružuju svoje mozgove,
prvi put udružuju svoje mozgove,
14:05
synchronize their brains perfectly
to get this virtual arm to move.
to get this virtual arm to move.
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savršeno usklađuju svoje mozgove
da bi pokrenuli ovu virtuelnu ruku.
da bi pokrenuli ovu virtuelnu ruku.
14:09
One monkey is controlling the x dimension,
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Jedan majmun kontroliše x dimenziju,
14:12
the other monkey
is controlling the y dimension.
is controlling the y dimension.
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drugi kontroliše y dimenziju.
14:14
But it gets a little more interesting
when you get three monkeys in there
when you get three monkeys in there
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Ali postaje još zanimljivije
kada ubacite tri majmuna
kada ubacite tri majmuna
14:19
and you ask one monkey to control x and y,
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i zatražite od jednog da kontroliše x i y,
14:22
the other monkey to control y and z,
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od drugog da kontroliše y i z
14:25
and the third one to control x and z,
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i od trećeg da kontroliše x i z,
14:28
and you make them all
play the game together,
play the game together,
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i navedete sve njih
da zajedno igraju igru,
da zajedno igraju igru,
14:30
moving the arm in 3D into a target
to get the famous Brazilian orange juice.
to get the famous Brazilian orange juice.
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da pomeraju ruku u 3D-u do mete kako bi
dobili čuveni brazilski sok od pomorandže.
dobili čuveni brazilski sok od pomorandže.
14:36
And they actually do.
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I zapravo su uspeli.
14:38
The black dot is the average
of all these brains working
of all these brains working
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Crna tačka je presek
svih ovih mozgova koji rade
svih ovih mozgova koji rade
14:43
in parallel, in real time.
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paralelno, u realnom vremenu.
14:46
That is the definition
of a biological computer,
of a biological computer,
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To je definicija biološkog kompjutera,
14:49
interacting by brain activity
and achieving a motor goal.
and achieving a motor goal.
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saradnja uz pomoć moždane aktivnosti
i postizanje motornog cilja.
i postizanje motornog cilja.
14:53
Where is this going?
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Kuda sve ovo vodi?
14:55
We have no idea.
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Pojma nemamo.
14:58
We're just scientists.
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Mi smo samo naučnici.
14:59
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
15:01
We are paid to be children,
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Plaćaju nas da budemo deca,
15:03
to basically go to the edge
and discover what is out there.
and discover what is out there.
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da prosto zavirimo u nepoznato
i otkrijemo šta se tamo nalazi.
i otkrijemo šta se tamo nalazi.
15:07
But one thing I know:
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Ali jedno znam:
15:09
One day, in a few decades,
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jednog dana, za nekoliko decenija,
15:11
when our grandchildren
surf the Net just by thinking,
surf the Net just by thinking,
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kada naša deca budu surfovala netom
pukim razmišljanjem,
pukim razmišljanjem,
15:15
or a mother donates her eyesight
to an autistic kid who cannot see,
to an autistic kid who cannot see,
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ili kada majka donira svoj vid
autističnom slepom detetu
autističnom slepom detetu
15:19
or somebody speaks because
of a brain-to-brain bypass,
of a brain-to-brain bypass,
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ili kada neko progovori
zahvaljujući bajpasu između dva mozga,
zahvaljujući bajpasu između dva mozga,
15:22
some of you will remember
that it all started on a winter afternoon
that it all started on a winter afternoon
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neki od vas će se setiti
da je sve počelo jednog zimskog popodneva
da je sve počelo jednog zimskog popodneva
15:28
in a Brazilian soccer field
with an impossible kick.
with an impossible kick.
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na fudbalskom stadionu u Brazilu,
s nemogućim šutom.
s nemogućim šutom.
15:32
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
15:34
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
15:43
Thank you.
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Hvala.
15:59
Bruno Giussani: Miguel,
thank you for sticking to your time.
thank you for sticking to your time.
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Bruno Đusani:
Hvala što si ispoštovao vreme.
Hvala što si ispoštovao vreme.
16:03
I actually would have given you
a couple more minutes,
a couple more minutes,
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Zapravo bih ti dao još par minuta,
jer ima još nekoliko tačaka
koje želimo da obrazložimo i,
koje želimo da obrazložimo i,
16:05
because there are a couple of points
we want to develop, and, of course,
we want to develop, and, of course,
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očigledno su nam potrebni umreženi
mozgovi da bismo shvatili kuda ovo vodi.
mozgovi da bismo shvatili kuda ovo vodi.
16:08
clearly it seems that we need connected
brains to figure out where this is going.
brains to figure out where this is going.
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Pa, hajde da sve ovo povežemo.
16:12
So let's connect all this together.
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16:14
So if I'm understanding correctly,
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Ako sam dobro shvatio,
jedan od majmuna dobija signal,
16:16
one of the monkeys
is actually getting a signal
is actually getting a signal
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16:18
and the other monkey
is reacting to that signal
is reacting to that signal
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a drugi majmun reaguje na taj signal,
16:21
just because the first one is receiving it
and transmitting the neurological impulse.
and transmitting the neurological impulse.
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samo zato što ga prvi dobija
i prenosi neurološki impuls.
i prenosi neurološki impuls.
16:25
Miguel Nicolelis:
No, it's a little different.
No, it's a little different.
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Migel Nikolelis: Nije baš tako.
Nijedan majmun ne zna
da postoje druga dva majmuna.
da postoje druga dva majmuna.
16:27
No monkey knows of the existence
of the other two monkeys.
of the other two monkeys.
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16:30
They are getting a visual feedback in 2D,
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Dobijaju vizuelnu informaciju u 2D-u,
16:33
but the task they have
to accomplish is 3D.
to accomplish is 3D.
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ali je zadatak
koji moraju da obave u 3D-u.
koji moraju da obave u 3D-u.
16:36
They have to move an arm
in three dimensions.
in three dimensions.
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Moraju da pomeraju ruku u tri dimenzije.
16:38
But each monkey is only getting
the two dimensions on the video screen
the two dimensions on the video screen
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Ali svaki majmun jedino dobija
dve dimenzije na ekranu
dve dimenzije na ekranu
16:42
that the monkey controls.
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koje kontroliše.
16:44
And to get that thing done,
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I kako biste uspeli,
16:47
you need at least two monkeys
to synchronize their brains,
to synchronize their brains,
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potrebno vam je da dva majmuna
sinhronizuju svoje mozgove,
sinhronizuju svoje mozgove,
ali idealno bi bilo tri.
16:49
but the ideal is three.
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Otkrili smo da kada jedan majmun
počne da otaljava,
počne da otaljava,
16:51
So what we found out is that
when one monkey starts slacking down,
when one monkey starts slacking down,
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16:55
the other two monkeys
enhance their performance
enhance their performance
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druga dva pojačaju svoj učinak
16:57
to get the guy to come back,
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kako bi se treći vratio,
16:59
so this adjusts dynamically,
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tako se ovo dinamično podešava,
17:02
but the global synchrony remains the same.
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ali sinhronicitet u globalu ostaje isti.
17:06
Now, if you flip
without telling the monkey
without telling the monkey
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Sad, ako preokrenete,
a da ne saopštite majmunu,
a da ne saopštite majmunu,
17:09
the dimensions that each brain
has to control,
has to control,
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dimenzije koje svaki mozak
mora da kontroliše,
mora da kontroliše,
17:11
like this guy is controlling x and y,
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na primer, ovaj momak kontroliše x i y,
17:13
but he should be controlling now y and z,
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ali sad bi trebalo da kontroliše y i z,
17:16
instantaneously, that animal's brain
forgets about the old dimensions
forgets about the old dimensions
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istog momenta, mozak ove životinje
zaboravlja stare dimenzije
zaboravlja stare dimenzije
17:20
and it starts concentrating
on the new dimensions.
on the new dimensions.
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i počinje da se usredsređuje na nove.
17:23
So what I need to say is
that no Turing machine,
that no Turing machine,
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Ono što želim reći
je da nijedna Tjuringova mašina,
je da nijedna Tjuringova mašina,
17:26
no computer can predict
what a brain net will do.
what a brain net will do.
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nijedan kompjuter ne može da predvidi
šta će umreženi mozgovi da urade.
šta će umreženi mozgovi da urade.
17:30
So we will absorb technology
as part of us.
as part of us.
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Tako ćemo upijati tehnologiju kao deo nas.
17:33
Technology will never absorb us.
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Tehnologija nikada neće upiti nas.
17:35
It's simply impossible.
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To je prosto nemoguće.
17:38
BG: How many times have you tested this?
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BĐ: Koliko ste puta ovo testirali?
17:41
And how many times
have you succeeded versus failed?
have you succeeded versus failed?
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I koliko ste puta bili uspešni,
a koliko ne?
a koliko ne?
17:44
MN: Oh, tens of times.
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MN: Oh, na desetine puta.
17:46
With the three monkeys?
Oh, several times.
Oh, several times.
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Sa tri majmuna? Nekoliko puta.
17:48
I wouldn't be able to talk about this here
unless I had done it a few times.
unless I had done it a few times.
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Ne bih mogao ovde da govorim o tome
da nisam to uradio nekoliko puta.
da nisam to uradio nekoliko puta.
17:53
And I forgot to mention, because of time,
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I zaboravio sam da pomenem, zbog vremena,
17:55
that just three weeks ago,
a European group
a European group
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da je pre samo tri nedelje,
grupa iz Evrope
grupa iz Evrope
17:59
just demonstrated the first
man-to-man brain-to-brain connection.
man-to-man brain-to-brain connection.
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demonstrirala prvu direktnu vezu
između dva ljudska mozga.
između dva ljudska mozga.
18:04
BG: And how does that play?
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BĐ: I kako to izgleda?
18:06
MN: There was one bit of information --
big ideas start in a humble way --
big ideas start in a humble way --
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MN: Imali su bit informacije -
velike ideje nastaju na skroman način -
velike ideje nastaju na skroman način -
18:10
but basically the brain activity
of one subject
of one subject
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ali u suštini, moždana aktivnost
jednog subjekta
jednog subjekta
18:17
was transmitted to a second object,
all non-invasive technology.
all non-invasive technology.
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prenesena je do drugog objekta,
sve to neinvazivnom tehnologijom.
sve to neinvazivnom tehnologijom.
18:21
So the first subject got a message,
like our rats, a visual message,
like our rats, a visual message,
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Tako je prvi subjekt primio poruku,
poput pacova, vizuelnu poruku,
poput pacova, vizuelnu poruku,
18:25
and transmitted it to the second subject.
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i preneo je drugom subjektu.
18:28
The second subject received
a magnetic pulse in the visual cortex,
a magnetic pulse in the visual cortex,
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Drugi subjekt je primio
magnetni impuls u vizuelnom korteksu,
magnetni impuls u vizuelnom korteksu,
18:32
or a different pulse,
two different pulses.
two different pulses.
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iliti različit impuls,
dva različita impulsa.
dva različita impulsa.
18:36
In one pulse, the subject saw something.
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Jednim impulsom, subjekat je video nešto.
18:38
On the other pulse,
he saw something different.
he saw something different.
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Drugim impulsom, video je nešto drugo.
18:40
And he was able to verbally indicate
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I mogao je rečima da iskaže
18:42
what was the message
the first subject was sending
the first subject was sending
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poruku koju je prvi subjekat poslao
18:45
through the Internet across continents.
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preko interneta sa drugog kontinenta.
18:48
Moderator: Wow.
Okay, that's where we are going.
Okay, that's where we are going.
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BĐ: Opa. U redu, znači na tom smo putu.
18:51
That's the next TED Talk
at the next conference.
at the next conference.
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To je naredni TED govor
na narednoj konferenciji.
na narednoj konferenciji.
18:53
Miguel Nicolelis, thank you.
MN: Thank you, Bruno. Thank you.
MN: Thank you, Bruno. Thank you.
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Migele Nikolelisu, hvala ti.
MN: Hvala tebi, Bruno. Hvala.
MN: Hvala tebi, Bruno. Hvala.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Miguel Nicolelis - NeuroscientistMiguel Nicolelis explores the limits of the brain-machine interface.
Why you should listen
At the Nicolelis Laboratory at Duke University, Miguel Nicolelis is best known for pioneering studies in neuronal population coding, Brain Machine Interfaces (BMI) and neuroprosthetics in human patients and non-human primates.His lab's work was seen, famously though a bit too briefly, when a brain-controlled exoskeleton from his lab helped Juliano Pinto, a paraplegic man, kick the first ball at the 2014 World Cup.
But his lab is thinking even bigger. They've developed an integrative approach to studying neurological disorders, including Parkinsons disease and epilepsy. The approach, they hope, will allow the integration of molecular, cellular, systems and behavioral data in the same animal, producing a more complete understanding of the nature of the neurophysiological alterations associated with these disorders. He's the author of the books Beyond Boundaries and The Relativistic Brain.
Miguel was honored as one of Foreign Policy's 2015 Global Thinkers.
Miguel Nicolelis | Speaker | TED.com