TED2017
Mehdi Ordikhani-Seyedlar: What happens in your brain when you pay attention?
Mehdi Ordikani-Sejedlar (Mehdi Ordikhani-Seyedlar): Šta se dešava u vašem mozgu kada usmerite pažnju?
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Pažnja ne obuhvata samo ono na šta se fokusiramo, već i ono što naš mozak odstranjuje filtriranjem. Istražujući obrasce u mozgu dok ljudi pokušavaju da se fokusiraju, kompjuterski neuronaučnik Mehdi Ordikani-Sejedlar se nada da će povezati mozak i kompjuter kroz izgradnju modela koji se mogu koristiti za lečenje poremećaja pažnje i pružanje pomoći onima koji su izgubili sposobnost komuniciranja. Poslušajte više o ovoj uzbudljivoj nauci u ovom kratkom i fascinantnom govoru.
Mehdi Ordikhani-Seyedlar - Neuroscientist
Mehdi Ordikhani-Seyedlar is a computational neuroscientist, researching brain signals and their usage in brain-machine interfaces. Full bio
Mehdi Ordikhani-Seyedlar is a computational neuroscientist, researching brain signals and their usage in brain-machine interfaces. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Paying close attention to something:
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Usmeravanje pažnje na nešto
00:15
Not that easy, is it?
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nije tako lako, zar ne?
00:17
It's because our attention is pulled
in so many different directions at a time,
in so many different directions at a time,
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To je zato što se naša pažnja odvlači
u toliko različitih pravaca istovremeno
u toliko različitih pravaca istovremeno
00:22
and it's in fact pretty impressive
if you can stay focused.
if you can stay focused.
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i zapravo je prilično impresivno
ako možete ostati fokusirani.
ako možete ostati fokusirani.
00:28
Many people think that attention
is all about what we are focusing on,
is all about what we are focusing on,
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Mnogi ljudi misle da se pažnja
svodi na ono na šta se fokusiramo,
svodi na ono na šta se fokusiramo,
00:32
but it's also about what information
our brain is trying to filter out.
our brain is trying to filter out.
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ali takođe se odnosi
i na to koje informacije
i na to koje informacije
naš mozak pokušava
da odstrani filtriranjem.
da odstrani filtriranjem.
00:38
There are two ways
you direct your attention.
you direct your attention.
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Postoje dva načina
na koje usmeravate pažnju.
na koje usmeravate pažnju.
00:41
First, there's overt attention.
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Kao prvo, postoji primetna pažnja.
00:43
In overt attention,
you move your eyes towards something
you move your eyes towards something
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Kod primetne pažnje,
pomerate oči ka nečemu
da biste usmerili pažnju na to.
da biste usmerili pažnju na to.
00:47
in order to pay attention to it.
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00:50
Then there's covert attention.
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Zatim, postoji neprimetna pažnja.
00:52
In covert attention,
you pay attention to something,
you pay attention to something,
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Kod neprimetne pažnje
usmeravate pažnju na nešto,
usmeravate pažnju na nešto,
00:56
but without moving your eyes.
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ali bez pomeranja očiju.
00:59
Think of driving for a second.
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Pomislite na trenutak na vožnju.
01:02
Your overt attention,
your direction of the eyes,
your direction of the eyes,
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Vaša primetna pažnja,
usmerenost vaših očiju je ispred,
usmerenost vaših očiju je ispred,
01:06
are in front,
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01:07
but that's your covert attention
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ali vaša neprimetna pažnja
01:09
which is constantly scanning
the surrounding area,
the surrounding area,
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neprekidno pregleda okolinu,
gde zapravo ne gledate.
01:13
where you don't actually look at them.
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01:17
I'm a computational neuroscientist,
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Ja sam kompjuterski neuronaučnik
01:19
and I work on cognitive
brain-machine interfaces,
brain-machine interfaces,
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i radim na kognitivnim
interfejsima mozga i mašine,
interfejsima mozga i mašine,
01:22
or bringing together
the brain and the computer.
the brain and the computer.
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ili na povezivanju mozga i kompjutera.
01:26
I love brain patterns.
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Obožavam moždane obrasce.
01:28
Brain patterns are important for us
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Moždani obrasci su važni za nas
01:30
because based on them
we can build models for the computers,
we can build models for the computers,
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jer na osnovu njih možemo graditi
modele za kompjutere,
modele za kompjutere,
01:33
and based on these models
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a na osnovu tih modela
01:35
computers can recognize
how well our brain functions.
how well our brain functions.
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kompjuteri mogu prepoznati
koliko dobro funkcioniše naš mozak.
koliko dobro funkcioniše naš mozak.
01:39
And if it doesn't function well,
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A ako ne funkcioniše dobro,
01:42
then these computers themselves
can be used as assistive devices
can be used as assistive devices
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onda se sami ti kompjuteri
mogu koristiti kao pomagala
mogu koristiti kao pomagala
01:46
for therapies.
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u terapiji.
01:48
But that also means something,
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Ali to takođe podrazumeva nešto,
01:51
because choosing the wrong patterns
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jer će nam odabir pogrešnih obrazaca
01:53
will give us the wrong models
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dati pogrešne modele
01:55
and therefore the wrong therapies.
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i, prema tome, pogrešne terapije.
01:57
Right?
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Zar ne?
01:59
In case of attention,
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U slučaju pažnje,
02:01
the fact that we can
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činjenica da možemo
02:03
shift our attention not only by our eyes
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preusmeriti svoju pažnju ne samo očima
02:07
but also by thinking --
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već i razmišljanjem -
02:09
that makes covert attention
an interesting model for computers.
an interesting model for computers.
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to čini neprimetnu pažnju
zanimljivim modelom za kompjutere.
zanimljivim modelom za kompjutere.
02:14
So I wanted to know
what are the brainwave patterns
what are the brainwave patterns
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Hteo sam da znam
kakvi su obrasci moždanih talasa
kakvi su obrasci moždanih talasa
02:17
when you look overtly
or when you look covertly.
or when you look covertly.
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kada pogledate sa primetne
i neprimetne strane.
i neprimetne strane.
02:22
I set up an experiment for that.
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Osmislio sam eksperiment za to.
02:24
In this experiment
there are two flickering squares,
there are two flickering squares,
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U ovom eksperimentu postoje
dva kvadrata koji trepere,
dva kvadrata koji trepere,
02:27
one of them flickering
at a slower rate than the other one.
at a slower rate than the other one.
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pri čemu jedan od njih treperi
sporije nego drugi.
sporije nego drugi.
02:32
Depending on which of these flickers
you are paying attention to,
you are paying attention to,
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U zavisnosti od toga
na koje treperenje obraćate pažnju,
na koje treperenje obraćate pažnju,
02:36
certain parts of your brain
will start resonating in the same rate
will start resonating in the same rate
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određeni delovi vašeg mozga
počinju da usklađuju brzinu
počinju da usklađuju brzinu
02:41
as that flickering rate.
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sa brzinom tog treperenja.
02:44
So by analyzing your brain signals,
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Tako, analiziranjem vaših moždanih signala
02:46
we can track where exactly
you are watching
you are watching
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možemo pratiti gde tačno gledate
02:50
or you are paying attention to.
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ili usmeravate pažnju.
02:55
So to see what happens in your brain
when you pay overt attention,
when you pay overt attention,
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Da bih video šta se dešava u vašem mozgu
kada usmeravate pažnju primetno,
kada usmeravate pažnju primetno,
02:59
I asked people to look directly
in one of the squares
in one of the squares
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zatražio sam od ljudi
da direktno gledaju u jedan od kvadrata
da direktno gledaju u jedan od kvadrata
03:02
and pay attention to it.
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i usmere pažnju na njega.
03:04
In this case, not surprisingly,
we saw that these flickering squares
we saw that these flickering squares
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U ovom slučaju, što nije iznenađenje,
videli smo da su se ti treperavi kvadrati
videli smo da su se ti treperavi kvadrati
03:10
appeared in their brain signals
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pojavili u njihovim moždanim signalima
03:12
which was coming
from the back of their head,
from the back of their head,
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koji su dolazili iz zadnjeg dela glave,
03:15
which is responsible for the processing
of your visual information.
of your visual information.
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koji je odgovoran za obradu
vizuelnih informacija.
vizuelnih informacija.
03:20
But I was really interested
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Međutim, zaista me je zanimalo
03:22
to see what happens in your brain
when you pay covert attention.
when you pay covert attention.
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da vidim šta se dešava u mozgu
kada obraćate pažnju neprimetno.
kada obraćate pažnju neprimetno.
03:26
So this time I asked people
to look in the middle of the screen
to look in the middle of the screen
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Ovoga puta sam tražio od ljudi
da gledaju sredinu ekrana
da gledaju sredinu ekrana
03:30
and without moving their eyes,
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i da, bez pomeranja očiju,
03:33
to pay attention
to either of these squares.
to either of these squares.
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usmere pažnju
na bilo koji od ovih kvadrata.
na bilo koji od ovih kvadrata.
03:37
When we did that,
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Kada smo to uradili,
03:38
we saw that both of these flickering rates
appeared in their brain signals,
appeared in their brain signals,
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videli smo da su se obe brzine treperenja
pojavile u moždanim signalima,
pojavile u moždanim signalima,
03:42
but interestingly,
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ali interesantno je
03:44
only one of them,
which was paid attention to,
which was paid attention to,
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da je samo jedan od njih,
onaj na koji je usmerena pažnja,
onaj na koji je usmerena pažnja,
imao jače signale,
03:48
had stronger signals,
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03:49
so there was something in the brain
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tako da je bilo nešto u mozgu
03:52
which was handling this information
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što je baratalo ovom informacijom,
03:54
so that thing in the brain was basically
the activation of the frontal area.
the activation of the frontal area.
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a to nešto u mozgu
u suštini aktivacija frontalne oblasti.
u suštini aktivacija frontalne oblasti.
04:02
The front part of your brain
is responsible
is responsible
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Prednji deo vašeg mozga je odgovoran
04:05
for higher cognitive functions as a human.
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za više kognitivne funkcije
kao ljudskog bića.
kao ljudskog bića.
04:09
The frontal part,
it seems that it works as a filter
it seems that it works as a filter
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Čini se da prednji deo
funkcioniše kao filter
funkcioniše kao filter
04:14
trying to let information come in
only from the right flicker
only from the right flicker
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koji pokušava da propusti informacije
samo iz desnog treperenja
samo iz desnog treperenja
04:19
that you are paying attention to
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na koji obraćate pažnju
04:21
and trying to inhibit the information
coming from the ignored one.
coming from the ignored one.
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i da blokira informacije
koje pristižu iz ignorisanog treperenja.
koje pristižu iz ignorisanog treperenja.
04:27
The filtering ability of the brain
is indeed a key for attention,
is indeed a key for attention,
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Sposobnost mozga da filtrira
je u stvari ključna za pažnju,
je u stvari ključna za pažnju,
04:32
which is missing in some people,
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a ona nedostaje kod nekih ljudi,
04:35
for example in people with ADHD.
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na primer, kod ljudi
sa poremećajem pažnje, ADHD-om.
sa poremećajem pažnje, ADHD-om.
04:38
So a person with ADHD
cannot inhibit these distractors,
cannot inhibit these distractors,
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Tako osoba sa poremećajem ADHD
ne može da blokira te ometače pažnje
ne može da blokira te ometače pažnje
04:43
and that's why they can't focus
for a long time on a single task.
for a long time on a single task.
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i zato se ne može fokusirati
duže vreme na jedan zadatak.
duže vreme na jedan zadatak.
Ali šta bi bilo kada bi takva osoba
04:49
But what if this person
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04:51
could play a specific computer game
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mogla da igra posebnu kompjutersku igru
04:54
with his brain connected to the computer,
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pri čemu joj je mozak
povezan sa kompjuterom,
povezan sa kompjuterom,
04:58
and then train his own brain
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a zatim uvežba svoj mozak
05:01
to inhibit these distractors?
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da blokira te smetnje za pažnju?
05:05
Well, ADHD is just one example.
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Pa, ADHD je samo jedan od primera.
05:09
We can use these cognitive
brain-machine interfaces
brain-machine interfaces
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Možemo koristiti ove kognitivne
interfejse mozga i mašine
interfejse mozga i mašine
05:12
for many other cognitive fields.
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za mnoga druga kognitivna polja.
05:15
It was just a few years ago
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Pre svega nekoliko godina,
05:17
that my grandfather had a stroke,
and he lost complete ability to speak.
and he lost complete ability to speak.
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moj deda je pretrpeo šlog
i sasvim je izgubio sposobnost govora.
i sasvim je izgubio sposobnost govora.
05:24
He could understand everybody,
but there was no way to respond,
but there was no way to respond,
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Mogao je svakog da razume,
ali nije bilo načina da odgovori,
ali nije bilo načina da odgovori,
05:28
even not writing
because he was illiterate.
because he was illiterate.
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čak ni da napiše jer je bio nepismen.
05:32
So he passed away in silence.
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Stoga je preminuo u tišini.
05:36
I remember thinking at that time:
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Sećam se da sam pomislio u to vreme
05:39
What if we could have a computer
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šta bi bilo kada bismo imali kompjuter
05:43
which could speak for him?
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koji bi mogao da govori umesto njega.
05:45
Now, after years that I am in this field,
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Danas, nakon mnogo godina
rada u ovom polju,
rada u ovom polju,
05:48
I can see that this might be possible.
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vidim da je to moguće.
Zamislite ako bismo mogli
da pronađemo obrasce moždanih talasa
da pronađemo obrasce moždanih talasa
05:52
Imagine if we can find brainwave patterns
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05:55
when people think
about images or even letters,
about images or even letters,
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kada ljudi razmišljaju
o slikama ili čak o slovima,
o slikama ili čak o slovima,
05:59
like the letter A generates
a different brainwave pattern
a different brainwave pattern
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kao što slovo A proizvodi
drugačiji obrazac moždanih talasa
drugačiji obrazac moždanih talasa
06:02
than the letter B, and so on.
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od slova B i tako dalje.
06:04
Could a computer one day
communicate for people who can't speak?
communicate for people who can't speak?
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Da li bi kompjuter jednog dana mogao
da komunicira umesto ljudi
da komunicira umesto ljudi
koji ne mogu da govore?
06:09
What if a computer
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Šta bi bilo kada bi kompjuter
06:11
can help us understand
the thoughts of a person in a coma?
the thoughts of a person in a coma?
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mogao da nam pomogne
da razumemo misli osobe u komi?
da razumemo misli osobe u komi?
06:17
We are not there yet,
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Nismo još dotle stigli,
06:19
but pay close attention.
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ali dobro obratite pažnju.
06:22
We will be there soon.
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Stići ćemo uskoro.
06:23
Thank you.
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Hvala.
06:25
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Mehdi Ordikhani-Seyedlar - NeuroscientistMehdi Ordikhani-Seyedlar is a computational neuroscientist, researching brain signals and their usage in brain-machine interfaces.
Why you should listen
Mehdi Ordikhani-Seyedlar is a research scientist interested in brain-wave patterns generated by neural activities in the brain. Since embarking on his research on neuroscience, Ordikhani-Seyedlar has been working on different brain functions such as learning, memory, pain and, more recently, visual attention in humans. He also conducted a part of his research on monkeys when he was in Dr. Miguel Nicolelis' lab at Duke University. His findings help implement more accurate brain-machine interfaces to treat people who are suffering from attention deficiency.
After receiving his Ph.D in Biomedical Engineering, Ordikhani-Seyedlar was offered a postdoctoral position by Duke University to develop algorithms to process large-scale neuronal activity and brain-machine interfaces. However, due to political complications in the United States, Ordikhani-Seyedlar -- an Iranian citizen -- changed his plan to continue his brain research outside the US for some time.
As a passionate neuroscientist and neuroengineer, Ordikhani-Seyedlar's aim is to improve brain pattern detectability in computers. This enhances the ability of brain-machine interfaces substantially to better target the defected brain function which in turn enhances the sustainability of treatment effect.
Mehdi Ordikhani-Seyedlar | Speaker | TED.com