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Emily Nagoski: How couples can sustain a strong sexual connection for a lifetime
艾米丽·纳高斯基: 夫妻如何长期保持稳固的性关系
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作为一名性教育者，艾米丽·纳高斯基（Emily Nagoski）常被问到：夫妻如何长期保持稳固的性关系？在这段有趣且富有见地的演讲中，她分享了自己的答案——利用（有些令人惊讶的）研究来揭示为什么有些夫妇会停止性行为，而另一些人却会保持一辈子的性关系。
Emily Nagoski - Sex educator
Emily Nagoski teaches women to live with confidence and joy inside their bodies. Full bio
Emily Nagoski teaches women to live with confidence and joy inside their bodies. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'm sitting in a bar
with a couple of friends --
with a couple of friends --
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我和一对朋友坐在酒吧——
00:15
literally, a couple, married couple.
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准确的说，是一对已婚夫妻。
他们是两个小孩的父母，
00:16
They're the parents of two young children,
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00:19
seven academic degrees between them,
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一共获得了 7 个学位，
00:21
big nerds, really nice people
but very sleep-deprived.
but very sleep-deprived.
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身材高大的书呆子，
人很好，但是睡眠不足。
人很好，但是睡眠不足。
00:25
And they ask me the question
I get asked more than any other question.
I get asked more than any other question.
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他们问的问题是我最常被问的。
00:31
They go, "So, Emily,
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他们往往这样问，“那么，艾米丽，
00:33
how do couples, you know,
sustain a strong sexual connection
sustain a strong sexual connection
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夫妻怎样能保持稳固的性关系
00:39
over multiple decades?"
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长达几十年？”
00:42
I'm a sex educator, which is why
my friends ask me questions like this,
my friends ask me questions like this,
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我是个性教育者，所以我朋友
常问我这样的问题，
常问我这样的问题，
00:45
and I am also a big nerd like my friends.
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并且我和我朋友
一样也是个大书呆子。
一样也是个大书呆子。
00:48
I love science, which is why
I can give them something like an answer.
I can give them something like an answer.
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我爱科学，所以我可以给
他们一些像是答案的东西，
他们一些像是答案的东西，
00:52
Research actually has
pretty solid evidence
pretty solid evidence
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确实有非常确凿的研究证据
00:54
that couples who sustain
strong sexual connections
strong sexual connections
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显示能够保持稳固性关系几十年
00:57
over multiple decades
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的夫妻
00:58
have two things in common.
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有两个共同点。
01:01
Before I can tell my friends
what those two things are,
what those two things are,
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在我告诉朋友
这两个共同点是什么之前，
这两个共同点是什么之前，
我得告诉他们哪些不是这些共同点。
01:04
I have to tell them a few things
that they are not.
that they are not.
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这些不是经常做爱的夫妻。
01:06
These are not couples
who have sex very often.
who have sex very often.
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01:10
Almost none of us have sex very often.
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几乎我们每个人都不常做爱。
01:14
We are busy.
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我们很忙。
01:16
They are also not couples who necessarily
have wild, adventurous sex.
have wild, adventurous sex.
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他们也通常不是那种进行
疯狂和冒险性行为的夫妻。
疯狂和冒险性行为的夫妻。
01:19
One recent study actually found
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一个最近的研究其实发现
01:21
that the couples
who are most strongly predicted
who are most strongly predicted
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在最能被预测出具备
01:25
to have strong sexual
and relationship satisfaction,
and relationship satisfaction,
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稳固的性和关系满意度的夫妻中，
01:29
the best predictor of that
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最好的预测因子不是
01:30
is not what kind of sex they have
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他们有什么样的性行为，
01:32
or how often or where they have it
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有多频繁或发生在哪，
01:34
but whether they cuddle after sex.
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而是他们在做爱后是否会拥抱。
01:37
And they are not necessarily couples
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他们也不一定是总迫不及待
01:39
who constantly can't wait
to keep their hands off each other.
to keep their hands off each other.
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想把手从对方身上拿开的夫妻。
有些人是。
01:42
Some of them are.
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他们经历了研究者所说的“自发欲望”，
01:43
They experience what the researchers
call "spontaneous desire,"
call "spontaneous desire,"
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01:47
that just sort of seems
to appear out of the blue.
to appear out of the blue.
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这似乎是突然出现的。
01:49
Erika Moen, the cartoonist
who illustrated my book,
who illustrated my book,
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艾瑞克·莫恩，给我的书
配插图的漫画家，
配插图的漫画家，
01:52
draws spontaneous desire
as a lightning bolt to the genitals --
as a lightning bolt to the genitals --
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把自发欲望画成生殖器
的一道闪电——
的一道闪电——
01:56
kaboom! -- you just want it
out of the blue.
out of the blue.
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砰——你突然就想要了。
01:59
That is absolutely one normal,
healthy way to experience sexual desire.
healthy way to experience sexual desire.
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这绝对是体验性欲的一种
正常、健康的方式。
正常、健康的方式。
02:03
But there's another healthy way
to experience sexual desire.
to experience sexual desire.
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但还有另一种体验性欲的健康方式，
02:06
It's called "responsive desire."
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叫做“响应性欲望”。
02:09
Where spontaneous desire seems
to emerge in anticipation of pleasure,
to emerge in anticipation of pleasure,
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这种情况下，对快乐的预期
会产生自发的欲望，
会产生自发的欲望，
02:14
responsive desire emerges
in response to pleasure.
in response to pleasure.
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响应性欲望始于对快乐的反应。
02:18
There's a sex therapist in New Jersey
named Christine Hyde,
named Christine Hyde,
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新泽西州有个性治疗师
叫克里斯汀·海德，
叫克里斯汀·海德，
她跟我说了这个
她给客户说的很好比方。
她给客户说的很好比方。
02:21
who taught me this great metaphor
she uses with her clients.
she uses with her clients.
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她说，想象你最好
的朋友邀请你去派对。
的朋友邀请你去派对。
02:24
She says, imagine that your best friend
invites you to a party.
invites you to a party.
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02:27
You say yes because
it's your best friend and a party.
it's your best friend and a party.
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你说好的，因为这是你最好
的朋友，并且是个派对。
的朋友，并且是个派对。
02:31
But then, as the date approaches,
you start thinking,
you start thinking,
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但然后，随着日期临近，你开始想，
02:34
"Aw, there's going to be all this traffic.
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“啊，可能交通会很堵。
02:36
We have to find child care.
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我们得找人看护孩子。
02:38
Am I really going to want
to put my party clothes on
to put my party clothes on
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我真想周末穿上派对衣服
去那里吗？”
02:41
and get there at the end of the week?"
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02:42
But you put on your party clothes
and you show up to the party,
and you show up to the party,
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但你还是穿上派对衣服
并出现在了派对上，
并出现在了派对上，
02:46
and what happens?
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然后发生了什么？
02:47
You have a good time at the party.
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你在派对上度过了
一段愉悦的时光。
一段愉悦的时光。
02:49
If you are having fun at the party,
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如果你在派对上很开心，
02:52
you are doing it right.
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你就做对了。
02:54
When it comes to a sexual connection,
it's the same thing.
it's the same thing.
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当涉及到性关系时，
也是同样的事情。
也是同样的事情。
02:57
You put on your party clothes,
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你穿上你的派对衣服，
02:58
you set up the child care,
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你把小孩看护好了，
03:00
you put your body in the bed,
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你躺在床上，
03:02
you let your skin
touch your partner's skin
touch your partner's skin
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让肌肤触摸伴侣的肌肤，
03:04
and allow your body
to wake up and remember,
to wake up and remember,
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让你的身体觉醒并记得，
03:07
"Oh, right! I like this.
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“哦，对！我喜欢这个。
03:09
I like this person!"
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我喜欢这个人！”
03:11
That's responsive desire,
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这是响应性欲望，
03:13
and it is key to understanding the couples
who sustain a strong sexual connection
who sustain a strong sexual connection
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并且它是理解能长期保持
稳固性关系的夫妻
稳固性关系的夫妻
03:18
over the long term,
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的关键所在，
03:19
because -- and this is the part
where I tell my friends
where I tell my friends
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因为——这部分是
我告诉我朋友的地方，
我告诉我朋友的地方，
03:22
the two characteristics of the couples who
do sustain a strong sexual connection --
do sustain a strong sexual connection --
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那些长期保持稳固性关系
的夫妻的两个特征——
的夫妻的两个特征——
03:26
one, they have a strong friendship
at the foundation of their relationship.
at the foundation of their relationship.
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第一，他们的感情有着
深厚的友谊基础。
深厚的友谊基础。
03:31
Specifically, they have strong trust.
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特别是，他们彼此信任对方。
03:34
Relationship researcher and therapist,
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关系研究者及治疗师，
03:36
developer of emotionally focused therapy,
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情感专注疗法的开发者，
03:38
Sue Johnson,
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苏·约翰逊，
03:39
boils trust down to this question:
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把信任归结为这两个问题：
03:41
Are you there for me?
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你会为我守候吗？
03:44
Especially, are you emotionally
present and available for me?
present and available for me?
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特别是，你对我的情感
存在且可用吗？
存在且可用吗？
03:48
Friends are there for each other.
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朋友都是相互支持的。
03:51
One.
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这是第一点。
03:52
The second characteristic
is that they prioritize sex.
is that they prioritize sex.
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第二个特点是他们优先考虑性爱。
03:57
They decide that it matters
for their relationship.
for their relationship.
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他们认定性爱对他们的关系很重要。
04:01
They choose to set aside all the other
things that they could be doing --
things that they could be doing --
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他们选择放开一切他们
可能在做的其他事情——
可能在做的其他事情——
04:06
the children they could be raising
and the jobs they could be going to,
and the jobs they could be going to,
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他们可能要抚养的小孩
和他们可能要做的工作，
和他们可能要做的工作，
04:09
the other family members
to pay attention to,
to pay attention to,
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他们要照看的其他家人，
04:12
the other friends they might
want to hang out with.
want to hang out with.
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他们可能想一起
出去玩的其他朋友。
出去玩的其他朋友。
但愿他们不只是
想看电视或想睡觉。
想看电视或想睡觉。
04:14
God forbid they just want
to watch some television or go to sleep.
to watch some television or go to sleep.
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04:17
Stop doing all that stuff
and create a protected space
and create a protected space
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停止做所有那些事情
并创建一个受保护的空间，
并创建一个受保护的空间，
04:21
where all you're going to do
is put your body in the bed
is put your body in the bed
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在那里你要做的就是躺在床上，
04:24
and let your skin
touch your partner's skin.
touch your partner's skin.
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让肌肤触摸伴侣的肌肤。
04:28
So that's it:
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就是这样：
04:29
best friends,
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最好的朋友，
04:30
prioritize sex.
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性爱优先。
04:33
So I said this to my friends in the bar.
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于是我在酒吧跟我朋友说了这些。
04:35
I was like, best friends, prioritize sex,
I told them about the party,
I told them about the party,
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我说，最好的朋友，性爱优先，
我告诉了他们派对的故事，
我告诉了他们派对的故事，
让肌肤亲近伴侣的肌肤。
04:38
I said you put your skin
next to your partner's skin.
next to your partner's skin.
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04:41
And one of the partners
I was talking to goes, "Aaagh."
I was talking to goes, "Aaagh."
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和我谈话的一位伴侣说：“啊哈。”
04:46
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:47
And I was like, "OK,
so, there's your problem."
so, there's your problem."
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我说，“好吧，所以，
这就是你的问题了。”
这就是你的问题了。”
04:49
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
难点不一定在于他们不想参加派对，
04:50
The difficulty was not that they did not
want to go to the party, necessarily.
want to go to the party, necessarily.
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04:54
If the difficulty is just a lack
of spontaneous desire for party,
of spontaneous desire for party,
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如果困难只是缺乏自发的派对欲望，
04:58
you know what to do:
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你知道该做什么：
04:59
you put on your party clothes
and show up for the party.
and show up for the party.
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只需要穿上派对衣服出现在派对上。
如果你在派对上玩得开心，你做对了。
05:01
If you're having fun at the party,
you're doing it right.
you're doing it right.
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难点在于这个派对上
05:04
Their difficulty was that this was a party
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没有她喜欢吃的食物，
05:06
where she didn't love
what there was available to eat,
what there was available to eat,
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05:10
the music was not her favorite music,
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音乐也不对她胃口，
05:12
and she wasn't totally sure she felt great
about her relationships with people
about her relationships with people
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并且她也不完全确定她对派对上的人
的关系感到满意。
05:16
who were at the party.
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05:17
And this happens all the time:
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这种事一直在发生：
05:19
nice people who love each other
come to dread sex.
come to dread sex.
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彼此相爱的好人惧怕性爱。
05:25
These couples, if they seek sex therapy,
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这些夫妻，如果他们寻求性爱治疗，
05:27
the therapist might have them stand up
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治疗师可能会让他们站起来，
05:29
and put as much distance
between their bodies as they need
between their bodies as they need
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为了让他们感到舒适，尽可能地
05:32
in order to feel comfortable,
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让他们的身体保持距离，
05:34
and the less interested partner
will make 20 feet of space.
will make 20 feet of space.
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而不太感兴趣的伴侣
会腾出 20 英尺的空间。
会腾出 20 英尺的空间。
05:39
And the really difficult part
is that space is not empty.
is that space is not empty.
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真正的困难在于这空间不是空的。
05:43
It is crowded with weeks or months or more
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它挤满了数周，数月甚至
更长的类似这样的东西：
更长的类似这样的东西：
05:48
of the, "You're not listening to me,"
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“你没在听我说话，”
05:50
and "I don't know what's wrong with me
but your criticism isn't helping,"
but your criticism isn't helping,"
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和“我不知道我有什么毛病，
但你的指责没用。”
但你的指责没用。”
以及“如果你爱我，就会这样做。”
或“我需要你的时候，你不在那。”
或“我需要你的时候，你不在那。”
05:53
and, "If you loved me, you would,"
and, "You're not there for me."
and, "You're not there for me."
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05:56
Years, maybe, of all
these difficult feelings.
these difficult feelings.
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可能长达数年，全是这些困难的感觉。
06:00
In the book, I use
this really silly metaphor
this really silly metaphor
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在书中，我用了一个非常愚蠢的比喻，
06:03
of difficult feelings as sleepy hedgehogs
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把困难的感觉比喻成你在
饲养的昏昏欲睡的刺猬，
饲养的昏昏欲睡的刺猬，
06:06
that you are fostering until
you can find a way to set them free
you can find a way to set them free
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直到你能找到一种方法放生它们，
06:10
by turning toward them
with kindness and compassion.
with kindness and compassion.
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带着善意和同情对待它们。
06:14
And the couples who struggle
to maintain a strong sexual connection,
to maintain a strong sexual connection,
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那些挣扎着保持
稳固性爱关系的伴侣，
稳固性爱关系的伴侣，
06:17
the distance between them
is crowded with these sleepy hedgehogs.
is crowded with these sleepy hedgehogs.
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他们之间的距离充满着
这些昏昏欲睡的刺猬。
这些昏昏欲睡的刺猬。
06:21
And it happens in any relationship
that lasts long enough.
that lasts long enough.
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这会发生在任何一段
持续够久的关系上。
持续够久的关系上。
06:24
You, too, are fostering
a prickle of sleepy hedgehogs
a prickle of sleepy hedgehogs
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你也一样，在你和那个特定的人中间
06:28
between you and your certain
special someone.
special someone.
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养了一只昏昏欲睡的刺猬。
06:30
The difference between couples
who sustain a strong sexual connection
who sustain a strong sexual connection
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维持稳固性关系的夫妻
与没能维持的夫妻
与没能维持的夫妻
之间的差异，
06:34
and the ones who don't
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并不在于他们没经历
这些困难的感受，
这些困难的感受，
06:35
is not that they don't experience
these difficult hurt feelings,
these difficult hurt feelings,
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06:39
it's that they turn towards
those difficult feelings
those difficult feelings
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而在于他们把这些困难的感觉
06:41
with kindness and compassion
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转向善意和同情，
06:44
so that they can set them free
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这样他们就能够释放这些感觉
06:46
and find their way back to each other.
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并找到回到彼此身边的路。
06:49
So my friends in the bar are faced
with the question under the question,
with the question under the question,
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于是我酒吧的朋友面临着
隐藏在表面之下的问题，
隐藏在表面之下的问题，
06:53
not, "How do we sustain
a strong connection?"
a strong connection?"
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这个问题不是，
“我们如何维持稳固的关系？”
“我们如何维持稳固的关系？”
06:56
but, "How do we find our way back to it?"
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而是，“我们如何找回原来的感觉？”
06:59
And, yes, there is science
to answer this question,
to answer this question,
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是的，有科学能回答这个问题，
07:02
but in 25 years as a sex educator,
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但在作为性教育者的 25 年中，
07:04
one thing I have learned
is sometimes, Emily,
is sometimes, Emily,
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我学到的一件事是，
有时候，艾米丽，
有时候，艾米丽，
07:06
less science,
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科学更少，
07:09
more hedgehogs.
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刺猬更多。
07:10
So I told them about me.
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于是我告诉了他们我的故事。
07:12
I spent many months writing a book about
the science of women's sexual well-being.
the science of women's sexual well-being.
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我花了好几个月写关于
女性“性福”科学的书。
女性“性福”科学的书。
07:18
I was thinking about sex
all day, every day,
all day, every day,
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我天天都在想性的事情，
07:21
and I was so stressed by the project
that I had zero -- zero! -- interest
that I had zero -- zero! -- interest
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我被这个项目压得
喘不过气来，以致我对性爱
喘不过气来，以致我对性爱
07:25
in actually having any sex.
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开始变得毫无兴趣。
07:28
And then I spent months
traveling all over,
traveling all over,
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然后我花了数月到处旅行，
07:30
talking with anyone who would listen
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跟任何愿意倾听
07:32
about the science
of women's sexual well-being.
of women's sexual well-being.
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女性“性福”科学的人交谈。
07:34
And by the time I got home, you know,
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当我回到家时，
07:36
I'd show up for the party,
put my body in the bed,
put my body in the bed,
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我试着出现在派对上，
让自己躺在床上，
让自己躺在床上，
07:39
let my skin touch my partner's skin,
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让肌肤触摸伴侣的肌肤，
07:41
and I was so exhausted and overwhelmed
I would just cry and fall asleep.
I would just cry and fall asleep.
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然而我太累了，不堪重负，
只想哭着就睡着。
只想哭着就睡着。
07:46
And the months of isolation
fostered fear and loneliness
fostered fear and loneliness
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几个月的孤立助长了恐惧、孤独
07:52
and frustration.
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和沮丧。
07:54
So many hedgehogs.
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如此之多的刺猬。
07:57
My best friend, this person
I love and admire,
I love and admire,
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我最好的朋友，我所爱的
和仰慕的这个人，
和仰慕的这个人，
08:01
felt a million miles away.
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感觉远在千里之外。
08:05
But ...
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但…
08:07
he was still there for me.
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他仍然在那里守候我。
08:08
No matter how many
difficult feelings there were,
difficult feelings there were,
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不管心里多难受，
08:12
he turned toward them
with kindness and compassion.
with kindness and compassion.
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他都会用善意和同情对待它们。
08:14
He never turned away.
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他从不转身离开。
08:17
And what was the second characteristic
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那么什么是夫妻维持
08:19
of couples who sustain
a strong sexual connection?
a strong sexual connection?
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稳固性关系的第二个特征？
08:22
They prioritize sex.
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他们把性爱放在第一位。
08:24
They decide that it matters
for their relationship,
for their relationship,
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他们肯定了这对他们关系的重要性，
08:27
that they do what it takes
to find their way back to the connection.
to find their way back to the connection.
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他们会尽一切努力
重新回到这种关系。
重新回到这种关系。
我告诉我的朋友，性治疗师兼研究者
佩吉·克莱因普拉茨是这么说的，
佩吉·克莱因普拉茨是这么说的，
08:31
I told my friends what sex therapist
and researcher Peggy Kleinplatz says.
and researcher Peggy Kleinplatz says.
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08:34
She asks: What kind of sex
is worth wanting?
is worth wanting?
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她问：“女性想要什么样的性爱？
08:39
My partner and I looked
at the quality of our connection
at the quality of our connection
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我和伴侣研究了我们之间的关系，
08:43
and what it brought to our lives,
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以及它给我们的生活带来了什么，
08:45
and we looked at the family
of sleepy hedgehogs
of sleepy hedgehogs
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我们看着我带入我们家中的
08:48
I had introduced into our home.
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昏昏欲睡的刺猬。
08:53
And we decided it was worth it.
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我们确认，性爱值得。
08:55
We decided -- we chose -- to do
what it took to find our way,
what it took to find our way,
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我们决定——我们选择——
尽一切可能寻找方法，
尽一切可能寻找方法，
09:00
turning towards each
of those sleepy hedgehogs,
of those sleepy hedgehogs,
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用善意和同情去看待每一个
09:02
those difficult hurt feelings,
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昏昏欲睡的刺猬，
09:04
with kindness and compassion
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那些痛苦的感觉，
09:05
and setting them free
so that we could find our way back
so that we could find our way back
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并释放它们，这样我们才能找回
09:08
to the connection that mattered
for our relationship.
for our relationship.
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对我们关系很重要的联系。
09:13
This is not the story we are usually told
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这不是我们通常听到的
09:15
about how sexual desire works
in long-term relationships.
in long-term relationships.
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性欲如何在长期关系中
起作用的故事。
起作用的故事。
09:19
But I can think of nothing more romantic,
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但我认为没有什么
09:23
nothing sexier,
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比选择性爱优先
09:24
than being chosen as a priority
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更加浪漫，更加性感的了，
09:29
because that connection matters enough,
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因为这个关系足够重要，
09:32
even after I introduced all of these
difficult feelings into our relationship.
difficult feelings into our relationship.
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即便在我引入所有这些困难
的感觉到我们的关系之后。
的感觉到我们的关系之后。
09:38
How do you sustain a strong
sexual connection over the long term?
sexual connection over the long term?
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你如何长期保持稳固的性关系？
09:44
You look into the eyes
of your best friend,
of your best friend,
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你望着你最好的朋友的眼睛，
09:47
and you keep choosing
to find your way back.
to find your way back.
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并且一直选择回到最初。
09:51
Thank you.
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谢谢。
09:53
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Emily Nagoski - Sex educatorEmily Nagoski teaches women to live with confidence and joy inside their bodies.
Why you should listen
Emily Nagoski is a sex educator and the author of the best-selling Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science that Will Transform Your Sex Life. As she writes: "As an undergrad at the University of Delaware, I wanted some volunteer work for my resume, so I got trained as a peer sex educator, going into residence halls to talk about condoms, contraception and consent. Though I loved the brain science I was studying in my classes (BA in psychology, minors in cognitive science and philosophy), it was my work as a sex educator that made me like who I am as a person. So that's the path I chose. I went to Indiana University for an MS in counseling and PhD in health behavior, completing a clinical internship at the Kinsey Institute, then went on to work at Smith College, where I taught a class called Women’s Sexuality.
"That first semester at Smith, I asked my students, as the last question on the final exam, 'What's one important thing you learned?' Half the students answered simply, 'I'm normal.' I decided that day to write Come As You Are, to share the science and sex positivity that helped my students know they're normal."
Emily Nagoski | Speaker | TED.com