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Emily Nagoski: How couples can sustain a strong sexual connection for a lifetime
艾蜜莉 ‧ 納戈斯基: 伴侶維持一生性福的秘訣
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身為性教育家，艾蜜莉 ‧ 納戈斯基通常會被問到：伴侶要如何長期維持熱情的性關係？在這場有趣又有洞見的演說中，她分享了她的答案，引用（蠻讓人驚訝的）研究來說明為什麼有些伴侶不再做愛，但有些伴侶能一生享有性福。
Emily Nagoski - Sex educator
Emily Nagoski teaches women to live with confidence and joy inside their bodies. Full bio
Emily Nagoski teaches women to live with confidence and joy inside their bodies. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'm sitting in a bar
with a couple of friends --
with a couple of friends --
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我和兩個朋友一起坐在酒吧裡——
明確來說是一對已婚夫妻。
明確來說是一對已婚夫妻。
00:15
literally, a couple, married couple.
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00:16
They're the parents of two young children,
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他們是兩個小孩的父母，
00:19
seven academic degrees between them,
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兩人的學位加起來有七個，
00:21
big nerds, really nice people
but very sleep-deprived.
but very sleep-deprived.
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大怪咖，很好的人，
但非常缺乏睡眠。
但非常缺乏睡眠。
00:25
And they ask me the question
I get asked more than any other question.
I get asked more than any other question.
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他們問我一個
我最常被問到的問題。
00:31
They go, "So, Emily,
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他們說：「所以，艾蜜莉，
00:33
how do couples, you know,
sustain a strong sexual connection
sustain a strong sexual connection
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伴侶要如何在數十年間
仍然維持熱情的性關係？」
00:39
over multiple decades?"
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00:42
I'm a sex educator, which is why
my friends ask me questions like this,
my friends ask me questions like this,
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我是性教育家，因此我的朋友
會問我像這樣的問題，
會問我像這樣的問題，
00:45
and I am also a big nerd like my friends.
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我和我朋友一樣是個大怪咖。
00:48
I love science, which is why
I can give them something like an answer.
I can give them something like an answer.
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我愛科學，這也是為什麼
我能給出個像樣的答案。
我能給出個像樣的答案。
00:52
Research actually has
pretty solid evidence
pretty solid evidence
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研究上有很確切的證據證明，
00:54
that couples who sustain
strong sexual connections
strong sexual connections
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伴侶能維持數十年熱情的性關係
00:57
over multiple decades
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00:58
have two things in common.
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具有兩個共通點。
在我告訴朋友那兩個共通點之前，
01:01
Before I can tell my friends
what those two things are,
what those two things are,
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我得先告訴他們
哪些東西是他們沒有的。
哪些東西是他們沒有的。
01:04
I have to tell them a few things
that they are not.
that they are not.
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他們不是很常有性行為的伴侶。
01:06
These are not couples
who have sex very often.
who have sex very often.
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01:10
Almost none of us have sex very often.
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幾乎我們所有人都不常有性行為。
01:14
We are busy.
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我們很忙。
01:16
They are also not couples who necessarily
have wild, adventurous sex.
have wild, adventurous sex.
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他們也不是一定要有狂野、
大膽性愛關係的伴侶。
大膽性愛關係的伴侶。
01:19
One recent study actually found
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一項近期的研究發現，
01:21
that the couples
who are most strongly predicted
who are most strongly predicted
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若要預測伴侶之間是否最有可能
01:25
to have strong sexual
and relationship satisfaction,
and relationship satisfaction,
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有熱情的性愛和關係滿足感，
01:29
the best predictor of that
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最好的預測變數不是
他們的性行為類型，
他們的性行為類型，
01:30
is not what kind of sex they have
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也不是性行為的頻率與場所，
01:32
or how often or where they have it
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01:34
but whether they cuddle after sex.
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而是他們在性行為之後
是否還會彼此依偎擁抱。
是否還會彼此依偎擁抱。
01:37
And they are not necessarily couples
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他們不見得是那些總迫不及待地
01:39
who constantly can't wait
to keep their hands off each other.
to keep their hands off each other.
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想把彼此的手拿開的伴侶。
01:42
Some of them are.
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有些是。他們經歷的是研究者
所謂的「自發性慾望」，
所謂的「自發性慾望」，
01:43
They experience what the researchers
call "spontaneous desire,"
call "spontaneous desire,"
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01:47
that just sort of seems
to appear out of the blue.
to appear out of the blue.
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性慾就這麼沒來由地出現。
01:49
Erika Moen, the cartoonist
who illustrated my book,
who illustrated my book,
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幫我的書畫插畫的是
漫畫家埃里卡．莫恩，
漫畫家埃里卡．莫恩，
01:52
draws spontaneous desire
as a lightning bolt to the genitals --
as a lightning bolt to the genitals --
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她把自發性慾望畫成是
打向生殖器的閃電——
打向生殖器的閃電——
01:56
kaboom! -- you just want it
out of the blue.
out of the blue.
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砰！——你就是沒來由地想要做愛。
01:59
That is absolutely one normal,
healthy way to experience sexual desire.
healthy way to experience sexual desire.
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那絕對是體驗性慾望的方式中
很正常、健康的一種。
很正常、健康的一種。
02:03
But there's another healthy way
to experience sexual desire.
to experience sexual desire.
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但還有另一種健康的方式
可以體驗性慾望。
可以體驗性慾望。
02:06
It's called "responsive desire."
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叫做「反應性慾望」。
02:09
Where spontaneous desire seems
to emerge in anticipation of pleasure,
to emerge in anticipation of pleasure,
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自發性慾望似乎展現在
期待愉悅的感覺，
期待愉悅的感覺，
02:14
responsive desire emerges
in response to pleasure.
in response to pleasure.
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而反應性慾望則是對愉悅感覺的回應。
02:18
There's a sex therapist in New Jersey
named Christine Hyde,
named Christine Hyde,
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紐澤西州的性治療師
克莉絲汀．海德，
克莉絲汀．海德，
教了我她對客戶用的傳神比喻。
02:21
who taught me this great metaphor
she uses with her clients.
she uses with her clients.
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她說，想像你最要好的朋友
邀請你去一個派對。
邀請你去一個派對。
02:24
She says, imagine that your best friend
invites you to a party.
invites you to a party.
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02:27
You say yes because
it's your best friend and a party.
it's your best friend and a party.
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你答應了，因為那是
你最要好的朋友而且是個派對耶。
你最要好的朋友而且是個派對耶。
02:31
But then, as the date approaches,
you start thinking,
you start thinking,
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但隨著日子的到來，你開始想：
「啊，到時候路上車子會一大堆。
02:34
"Aw, there's going to be all this traffic.
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02:36
We have to find child care.
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我們得找人帶小孩。
02:38
Am I really going to want
to put my party clothes on
to put my party clothes on
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我真的想穿上派對的衣服，
在週末時跑到那裡去嗎？」
在週末時跑到那裡去嗎？」
02:41
and get there at the end of the week?"
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02:42
But you put on your party clothes
and you show up to the party,
and you show up to the party,
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但你穿上了派對的衣服，
出現在派對現場，
出現在派對現場，
02:46
and what happens?
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會發生什麼事？
02:47
You have a good time at the party.
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你在派對上玩得很開心。
02:49
If you are having fun at the party,
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如果你在派對上玩得很開心，
02:52
you are doing it right.
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你就做對了。
02:54
When it comes to a sexual connection,
it's the same thing.
it's the same thing.
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性關係也是一樣的道理。
你穿上你的派對衣服，
02:57
You put on your party clothes,
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02:58
you set up the child care,
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你安排好了人來照顧孩子，
03:00
you put your body in the bed,
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你身體躺在床上，
03:02
you let your skin
touch your partner's skin
touch your partner's skin
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你讓你的肌膚觸碰伴侶的肌膚，
03:04
and allow your body
to wake up and remember,
to wake up and remember,
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喚醒你的身體並想起來：
03:07
"Oh, right! I like this.
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「喔，對！我喜歡這件事。
03:09
I like this person!"
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我喜歡這個人！」
03:11
That's responsive desire,
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那就是反應性慾望，
03:13
and it is key to understanding the couples
who sustain a strong sexual connection
who sustain a strong sexual connection
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若要了解能長時間
維持熱情性愛的伴侶，
維持熱情性愛的伴侶，
這就是關鍵，
03:18
over the long term,
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03:19
because -- and this is the part
where I tell my friends
where I tell my friends
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因為——我也有跟我朋友提到這部分，
03:22
the two characteristics of the couples who
do sustain a strong sexual connection --
do sustain a strong sexual connection --
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能維持熱情性愛的伴侶有兩項特徵——
03:26
one, they have a strong friendship
at the foundation of their relationship.
at the foundation of their relationship.
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第一，他們關係的基礎
在於深厚的友誼。
在於深厚的友誼。
03:31
Specifically, they have strong trust.
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明確來說，他們對彼此
有強烈的信任感。
有強烈的信任感。
03:34
Relationship researcher and therapist,
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身兼關係研究者、治療師
03:36
developer of emotionally focused therapy,
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與情緒取向治療的開發者蘇．強生
03:38
Sue Johnson,
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把信任歸結為這個問題：
03:39
boils trust down to this question:
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03:41
Are you there for me?
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你會在我身邊支持我嗎？
03:44
Especially, are you emotionally
present and available for me?
present and available for me?
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特別是你在情感上真的與我同在
且願意騰出時間給我嗎？
且願意騰出時間給我嗎？
03:48
Friends are there for each other.
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朋友會在身邊支持彼此。
03:51
One.
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那是第一。
03:52
The second characteristic
is that they prioritize sex.
is that they prioritize sex.
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第二項特徵是，他們的性愛有優先權。
03:57
They decide that it matters
for their relationship.
for their relationship.
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他們認定性對於他們的關係很重要。
04:01
They choose to set aside all the other
things that they could be doing --
things that they could be doing --
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他們選擇將其他的事擺一旁——
04:06
the children they could be raising
and the jobs they could be going to,
and the jobs they could be going to,
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像是照顧孩子、要做的工作、
04:09
the other family members
to pay attention to,
to pay attention to,
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關心其他的家人、約朋友出去。
04:12
the other friends they might
want to hang out with.
want to hang out with.
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但願他們不是只想
看一下電視或去睡覺。
看一下電視或去睡覺。
04:14
God forbid they just want
to watch some television or go to sleep.
to watch some television or go to sleep.
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04:17
Stop doing all that stuff
and create a protected space
and create a protected space
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不去做所有上述的這些，
並創造出一個受保護的空間，
並創造出一個受保護的空間，
04:21
where all you're going to do
is put your body in the bed
is put your body in the bed
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而你要做的就只有把身體放在床上，
04:24
and let your skin
touch your partner's skin.
touch your partner's skin.
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讓你的肌膚觸碰你伴侶的肌膚。
04:28
So that's it:
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就這樣：
04:29
best friends,
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最要好的朋友，
04:30
prioritize sex.
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把性愛設為優先事項。
04:33
So I said this to my friends in the bar.
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我在酒吧對我的朋友說了這些：
04:35
I was like, best friends, prioritize sex,
I told them about the party,
I told them about the party,
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最要好的朋友、把性愛設為優先，
我還提了派對的比喻，
我還提了派對的比喻，
04:38
I said you put your skin
next to your partner's skin.
next to your partner's skin.
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把你的肌膚貼在伴侶的肌膚旁。
04:41
And one of the partners
I was talking to goes, "Aaagh."
I was talking to goes, "Aaagh."
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聽我說的夫妻之一說：「啊……」
04:46
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:47
And I was like, "OK,
so, there's your problem."
so, there's your problem."
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而我說：「好，這就是你的問題。」
04:49
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:50
The difficulty was not that they did not
want to go to the party, necessarily.
want to go to the party, necessarily.
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困難之處不見得是他們不想要去派對。
04:54
If the difficulty is just a lack
of spontaneous desire for party,
of spontaneous desire for party,
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如果困難之處只是在於
缺乏去派對的自發性慾望，
缺乏去派對的自發性慾望，
你知道該怎麼做：穿上
派對衣服，出席派對。
派對衣服，出席派對。
04:58
you know what to do:
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04:59
you put on your party clothes
and show up for the party.
and show up for the party.
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如果你在派對上
玩得很開心，就做對了。
玩得很開心，就做對了。
05:01
If you're having fun at the party,
you're doing it right.
you're doing it right.
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他們的困難在於，
05:04
Their difficulty was that this was a party
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她不喜歡這個派對上的食物，
05:06
where she didn't love
what there was available to eat,
what there was available to eat,
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05:10
the music was not her favorite music,
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音樂也不是她喜歡的，
05:12
and she wasn't totally sure she felt great
about her relationships with people
about her relationships with people
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她不能完全確定自己是否很喜歡
派對上的那些人。
05:16
who were at the party.
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05:17
And this happens all the time:
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這常常發生：
05:19
nice people who love each other
come to dread sex.
come to dread sex.
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深愛彼此的好人，
卻陷入懼怕性愛的夢靨中。
05:25
These couples, if they seek sex therapy,
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這些伴侶若去尋求性治療，
05:27
the therapist might have them stand up
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治療師可能會要他們站起來，
05:29
and put as much distance
between their bodies as they need
between their bodies as they need
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把彼此身體的空間拉開到
雙方感到舒適的距離為止，
05:32
in order to feel comfortable,
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05:34
and the less interested partner
will make 20 feet of space.
will make 20 feet of space.
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比較不感興趣的那一方會拉出
二十英尺的空間。
05:39
And the really difficult part
is that space is not empty.
is that space is not empty.
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真正困難點在於那空間並非虛空的。
05:43
It is crowded with weeks or months or more
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那空間中滿是累積了
數個星期、數個月
數個星期、數個月
或更多的「你都沒在聽我說」、
05:48
of the, "You're not listening to me,"
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05:50
and "I don't know what's wrong with me
but your criticism isn't helping,"
but your criticism isn't helping,"
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「我不知道我是怎麼搞的，
但你的批評並沒有幫助」、
但你的批評並沒有幫助」、
05:53
and, "If you loved me, you would,"
and, "You're not there for me."
and, "You're not there for me."
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「如果你愛我，你就會如何如何」
及「你沒在我身邊支持我」。
及「你沒在我身邊支持我」。
05:56
Years, maybe, of all
these difficult feelings.
these difficult feelings.
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也許累積了數年的難受感覺。
06:00
In the book, I use
this really silly metaphor
this really silly metaphor
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在我的書中，
我用了個很蠢的比喻，
我用了個很蠢的比喻，
06:03
of difficult feelings as sleepy hedgehogs
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把難受的感覺比喻成愛睏的刺蝟，
06:06
that you are fostering until
you can find a way to set them free
you can find a way to set them free
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你在養育牠們，
直到你能找到方法，
直到你能找到方法，
帶著仁慈和同理心
去面對牠們，放牠們自由。
去面對牠們，放牠們自由。
06:10
by turning toward them
with kindness and compassion.
with kindness and compassion.
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06:14
And the couples who struggle
to maintain a strong sexual connection,
to maintain a strong sexual connection,
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至於很辛苦在維持熱情性愛的伴侶，
06:17
the distance between them
is crowded with these sleepy hedgehogs.
is crowded with these sleepy hedgehogs.
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他們之間的距離就滿是
這些愛睏的刺蝟。
這些愛睏的刺蝟。
06:21
And it happens in any relationship
that lasts long enough.
that lasts long enough.
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只要關係夠長久，這就有可能發生。
06:24
You, too, are fostering
a prickle of sleepy hedgehogs
a prickle of sleepy hedgehogs
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你和你生命中很特別的那個人之間，
06:28
between you and your certain
special someone.
special someone.
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也養了頭讓人刺痛的愛睏刺蝟。
06:30
The difference between couples
who sustain a strong sexual connection
who sustain a strong sexual connection
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能維持和無法維持熱情性愛的伴侶，
06:34
and the ones who don't
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差別不在於他們沒有經歷過
這些難過的受傷感覺，
這些難過的受傷感覺，
06:35
is not that they don't experience
these difficult hurt feelings,
these difficult hurt feelings,
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06:39
it's that they turn towards
those difficult feelings
those difficult feelings
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而在於他們帶著仁慈和同理心
06:41
with kindness and compassion
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去面對那些難受的感覺，
06:44
so that they can set them free
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於是便能釋放這些感覺，
06:46
and find their way back to each other.
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找出回到彼此身邊的路。
06:49
So my friends in the bar are faced
with the question under the question,
with the question under the question,
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所以，我在酒吧中的朋友面對的是
這個問題底下的問題，
這個問題底下的問題，
06:53
not, "How do we sustain
a strong connection?"
a strong connection?"
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不是「我們要如何
維持熱情的性關係？」
維持熱情的性關係？」
06:56
but, "How do we find our way back to it?"
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而是「我們要如何找回曾有的美好？」
06:59
And, yes, there is science
to answer this question,
to answer this question,
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是的，這個問題有科學的答案，
07:02
but in 25 years as a sex educator,
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但，身為性教育家的這二十五年，
07:04
one thing I have learned
is sometimes, Emily,
is sometimes, Emily,
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我學到一件事：艾蜜莉，有時，
07:06
less science,
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少點科學，
07:09
more hedgehogs.
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多點刺蝟。
07:10
So I told them about me.
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所以，我跟他們說了我的事。
07:12
I spent many months writing a book about
the science of women's sexual well-being.
the science of women's sexual well-being.
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我花了數個月的時間寫一本書，
內容是關於女人性福的科學。
07:18
I was thinking about sex
all day, every day,
all day, every day,
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我整天、每天都在想著性，
07:21
and I was so stressed by the project
that I had zero -- zero! -- interest
that I had zero -- zero! -- interest
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這個計畫給我很大的壓力，
讓我對於真正做愛
完全零興趣——零！
完全零興趣——零！
07:25
in actually having any sex.
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07:28
And then I spent months
traveling all over,
traveling all over,
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接著，我花了數個月四處旅行，
07:30
talking with anyone who would listen
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有任何人願意傾聽女人
性福的科學，我就和他們談。
性福的科學，我就和他們談。
07:32
about the science
of women's sexual well-being.
of women's sexual well-being.
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07:34
And by the time I got home, you know,
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我回到家時，
07:36
I'd show up for the party,
put my body in the bed,
put my body in the bed,
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我會出席派對，
把我的身體放上床，
把我的身體放上床，
07:39
let my skin touch my partner's skin,
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讓我的肌膚觸碰我伴侶的肌膚，
07:41
and I was so exhausted and overwhelmed
I would just cry and fall asleep.
I would just cry and fall asleep.
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我累壞了，無法招架，
我就只是哭泣然後睡著了。
我就只是哭泣然後睡著了。
07:46
And the months of isolation
fostered fear and loneliness
fostered fear and loneliness
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數個月的隔離，造成了
恐懼、孤單還有挫折。
07:52
and frustration.
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07:54
So many hedgehogs.
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好多刺蝟。
07:57
My best friend, this person
I love and admire,
I love and admire,
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這個人是我最要好的朋友，
是我很愛、很欣賞的人，
是我很愛、很欣賞的人，
08:01
felt a million miles away.
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卻感覺有一百萬英里之遙。
08:05
But ...
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但……
08:07
he was still there for me.
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他仍然在我身邊支持我。
08:08
No matter how many
difficult feelings there were,
difficult feelings there were,
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不論有多少難受的感覺，
08:12
he turned toward them
with kindness and compassion.
with kindness and compassion.
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他都會帶著仁慈和同理心去面對。
08:14
He never turned away.
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他從來沒有離開。
08:17
And what was the second characteristic
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能維持熱情性關係的伴侶，
第二個特徵是什麼？
第二個特徵是什麼？
08:19
of couples who sustain
a strong sexual connection?
a strong sexual connection?
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08:22
They prioritize sex.
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把性愛列為最優先。
08:24
They decide that it matters
for their relationship,
for their relationship,
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他們認定性對他們的關係很重要，
08:27
that they do what it takes
to find their way back to the connection.
to find their way back to the connection.
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他們不計代價找到返回關係的路。
08:31
I told my friends what sex therapist
and researcher Peggy Kleinplatz says.
and researcher Peggy Kleinplatz says.
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我告訴我的朋友性治療師和研究者
佩吉‧克林普拉茨說的話。
佩吉‧克林普拉茨說的話。
08:34
She asks: What kind of sex
is worth wanting?
is worth wanting?
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她問：什麼樣的性愛
是值得渴求的？
是值得渴求的？
08:39
My partner and I looked
at the quality of our connection
at the quality of our connection
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我和我的伴侶檢視了
我們關係的品質，
我們關係的品質，
08:43
and what it brought to our lives,
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及它帶給我們生活什麼樣的影響，
08:45
and we looked at the family
of sleepy hedgehogs
of sleepy hedgehogs
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我們檢視了我帶到
我們家中的愛睏刺蝟家庭。
08:48
I had introduced into our home.
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08:53
And we decided it was worth it.
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我們認定是值得的。
08:55
We decided -- we chose -- to do
what it took to find our way,
what it took to find our way,
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我們決定——我們選擇——
付出代價去找到我們的路，
09:00
turning towards each
of those sleepy hedgehogs,
of those sleepy hedgehogs,
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用仁慈和同理心面對每一隻
愛睏刺蝟，每一個難受的感覺，
愛睏刺蝟，每一個難受的感覺，
09:02
those difficult hurt feelings,
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09:04
with kindness and compassion
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並解放牠們，讓我們
能找到返回的路，
能找到返回的路，
09:05
and setting them free
so that we could find our way back
so that we could find our way back
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09:08
to the connection that mattered
for our relationship.
for our relationship.
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回到對我們之間很重要的關係。
09:13
This is not the story we are usually told
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我們聽到關於長期關係中的
09:15
about how sexual desire works
in long-term relationships.
in long-term relationships.
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性慾望如何運作的故事，
通常都不是這樣的。
通常都不是這樣的。
09:19
But I can think of nothing more romantic,
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但我認為沒有比把性愛列為最優先
09:23
nothing sexier,
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還更羅曼蒂克、
09:24
than being chosen as a priority
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更性感的事了，
09:29
because that connection matters enough,
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因為那關係的重要性夠高，
09:32
even after I introduced all of these
difficult feelings into our relationship.
difficult feelings into our relationship.
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即使我把那些難受的感覺
帶到我們的關係中。
帶到我們的關係中。
09:38
How do you sustain a strong
sexual connection over the long term?
sexual connection over the long term?
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要如何長期維持熱情的性關係？
09:44
You look into the eyes
of your best friend,
of your best friend,
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你看著你最要好朋友的雙眼，
09:47
and you keep choosing
to find your way back.
to find your way back.
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持續選擇要找到返回的路。
09:51
Thank you.
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謝謝。
09:53
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Emily Nagoski - Sex educatorEmily Nagoski teaches women to live with confidence and joy inside their bodies.
Why you should listen
Emily Nagoski is a sex educator and the author of the best-selling Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science that Will Transform Your Sex Life. As she writes: "As an undergrad at the University of Delaware, I wanted some volunteer work for my resume, so I got trained as a peer sex educator, going into residence halls to talk about condoms, contraception and consent. Though I loved the brain science I was studying in my classes (BA in psychology, minors in cognitive science and philosophy), it was my work as a sex educator that made me like who I am as a person. So that's the path I chose. I went to Indiana University for an MS in counseling and PhD in health behavior, completing a clinical internship at the Kinsey Institute, then went on to work at Smith College, where I taught a class called Women’s Sexuality.
"That first semester at Smith, I asked my students, as the last question on the final exam, 'What's one important thing you learned?' Half the students answered simply, 'I'm normal.' I decided that day to write Come As You Are, to share the science and sex positivity that helped my students know they're normal."
Emily Nagoski | Speaker | TED.com