ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Joan Blades - Domestic peace advocate
Joan Blades shares a simple six-person conversation guide that helps people with differences get to know and even like each other.

Why you should listen

Joan Blades is a co-founder of LivingRoomConversations.org, an open-source effort to rebuild respectful civil discourse across ideological, cultural and party lines while embracing our core-shared values. She is also a co-founder of MomsRising.org and MoveOn.org. She is a co-author of The Custom-Fit Workplace: Choose When, Where and How to Work and Boost Your Bottom Line, winner of a Nautilus book award in 2011, and The Motherhood Manifesto, which won the Ernesta Drinker Ballard Book Prize in 2007.

Last century, Blades was a software entrepreneur, a co-founder of Berkeley Systems, best known for the Flying Toaster and the game "You Don't Know Jack." A mediator (attorney) by training and inclination, she is a nature lover, artist and true believer in the power of citizens and our need to rebuild respectful civil discourse while embracing our core shared values.

More profile about the speaker
Joan Blades | Speaker | TED.com
John Gable - Technologist, activist
John Gable is the founder and CEO of AllSides.com, which builds better understanding across divides.

Why you should listen

John Gable offers a unique combination of technology and politics. He started in tech 24 years ago by joining the original Microsoft Office team, then became the PM team lead for Netscape Navigator. He also led ZoneAlarm at Check Point Software, and cofounded and sold Kavi Corp. Gable was previously a Republican operative, working for three Senate majority leaders (Howard Baker, Trent Lott, Mitch McConnell), the Republican National Committee and George H.W. Bush.

Now Gable and his multi-partisan AllSides.com team use technology to present news and issues from many angles to allow people to make up their own minds. Their mission: "free people from filter bubbles so they can better understand the world and each other."

More profile about the speaker
John Gable | Speaker | TED.com
TEDWomen 2017

Joan Blades and John Gable: Free yourself from your filter bubbles

琼·布雷兹和约翰·盖博: 打破自己的过滤气泡

Filmed:
1,322,054 views

琼·布雷兹和约翰·盖博想让你跟自己不同政治阵营的人交朋友。他俩分属不同政治阵营,却也是多年的好友,他们懂得诚实对话的价值,即便对方的观点你无法立即认同。他们讲述了该如何在不同政治派别的人之间搭建桥梁,创造机会让他们彼此倾听,彼此关心(也许,还能发展出长久的友谊)。
- Domestic peace advocate
Joan Blades shares a simple six-person conversation guide that helps people with differences get to know and even like each other. Full bio - Technologist, activist
John Gable is the founder and CEO of AllSides.com, which builds better understanding across divides. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Joan Blades叶片: Do you have
politically政治上 diverse多种 friends朋友?
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琼·布雷兹:你有政见不同的朋友吗?
00:15
What do you talk about with them?
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你会跟他们聊些什么?
00:18
I'm a progressive进步; I live生活
in a town full充分 of progressives进步,
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我是一个进步派,
我生活的地方全是进步派,
00:20
and 15 years年份 ago, I didn't have
any conservative保守 friends朋友.
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15年前,我的朋友中
没有一个是保守党。
00:24
Now I have a wonderful精彩 mix混合 of friends朋友,
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而现在我的朋友各种各样,
00:27
and they include包括 John约翰.
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包括约翰。
00:29
John约翰 Gable盖博: I am not a progressive进步.
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约翰·盖博:我不是进步派。
00:31
I'm a Republican共和党人 who grew成长 up
in a Republican共和党人 family家庭
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我是共和党人,
出生在一个共和党家庭,
00:34
in the conservative保守 South,
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来自保守的南方,
甚至一直在共和党做事,
之前在老家,后来到了全国级别。
00:35
and even worked工作 in Republican共和党人 politics政治,
locally本地 and at the national国民 level水平.
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00:39
But the last 24 years年份,
I've been in technology技术
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但在过去的24年间,
我从事技术工作,
00:42
and living活的 in a very progressive进步 area.
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生活在进步派地区。
00:44
So I have a lot of progressive进步 friends朋友,
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因此我有许多进步派的朋友,
包括琼。
00:46
including包含 Joan.
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00:48
JBJB: I was born天生 in Berkeley伯克利, California加州,
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JB:我出生在加州的伯克利,
00:51
a notoriously臭名昭著 progressive进步 college学院 town.
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众所周知,那里是
进步主义盛行的大学城。
00:54
And I live生活 there now.
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我现在也住在那儿。
00:56
In 1998, six months个月 into the Monica莫妮卡
Lewinsky-Clinton莱温斯基-克林顿 impeachment弹劾 scandal丑闻,
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1998年,莱温斯基和克林顿的丑闻
进行到第6个月。
01:02
I helped帮助 cofoundcofound MoveOnMoveOn.org组织
with a one-sentence一个句子 petition请愿:
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我参与共建了MoveOn.org网站,
有一句请愿的话:
01:07
"Congress国会 must必须 immediately立即
censure谴责 the president主席
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“国会必须立即谴责总统,
01:10
and move移动 on to pressing紧迫 issues问题
facing面对 the nation国家."
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并转而处理国家面临的
更紧迫问题。”
01:13
Now, that was actually其实
a very unifying统一 petition请愿 in many许多 ways方法.
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从很多方面来看,
那是一句非常有凝聚力的谴责。
01:17
You could love Clinton克林顿 or hate讨厌 Clinton克林顿
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无论你对克林顿是爱是恨,
01:19
and agree同意 that the best最好 thing
for the country国家 was to move移动 on.
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都会认同,对于国家而言,
最好的方法就是继续前进。
01:23
As the leader领导 of MoveOnMoveOn,
I saw the polarization极化 just continue继续.
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作为MoveOn的领头人,
我看到两极分化在持续。
01:28
And I found发现 myself wondering想知道
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我不禁在想,
01:31
why I saw things so differently不同
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为什么我看待事情的方式,
01:34
than many许多 people
in other parts部分 of the country国家.
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跟这个国家其他地方的人会不一样。
01:36
So in 2005, when I had an opportunity机会
to get together一起 with grassroots基层 leaders领导者
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于是在2005年,当我有机会
接触一些草根领袖
我们政见不同,
01:42
across横过 the political政治 divide划分,
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01:45
I grabbed抓起 it.
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我抓住了这个机会。
01:47
And I became成为 friends朋友 with a lot of people
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我跟很多人成为了朋友,
之前可能都没有机会说话。
01:49
I never had a chance机会 to talk to before.
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01:53
And that included包括 leadership领导
in the Christian基督教 Coalition联盟,
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包括基督徒联盟的领导层,
01:56
often经常 seen看到 as on the right
the way MoveOnMoveOn is seen看到 as on the left.
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他们通常被认为是右派,
而MoveON被认为是左派。
02:00
And this lead to me
showing展示 up on Capitol国会大厦 Hill爬坡道
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于是我去了国会山,
跟基督徒联盟的一个领导人,
他是我朋友,
02:04
with one of the Christian基督教 Coalition联盟
leaders领导者, my friend朋友,
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02:08
to lobby前厅 for net neutrality中立.
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一起游说关于网络中立的问题。
02:10
That was powerful强大.
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非常有效。
我们扭转了局势。
02:11
We turned转身 heads.
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02:13
So this work was transformational转型 for me.
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这件事给我带来了巨大的转变。
02:17
And I found发现 myself wondering想知道:
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我开始思考:
02:20
How could vast广大 numbers数字 of people
have the opportunity机会
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如何才能让大众有机会
02:24
to really connect with people
that have very different不同 views意见?
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去跟那些与自己有不同观点的人
真正建立联系?
02:28
JGJG: I was born天生 Oneida奥奈达, Tennessee田纳西,
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JG:我出生在田纳西州的奥奈达,
02:31
right across横过 the state border边境
from a small coal煤炭 mining矿业 town,
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穿过州界线,有一个产煤的小镇,
02:35
Stearns贝尔斯登, Kentucky肯塔基.
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肯塔基州的斯特恩斯。
02:37
And I lived生活 there
for the first few少数 years年份 of my life,
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我出生后头几年都在那儿生活,
后来我又搬到了另一个小镇,
肯塔基州的法兰克福。
02:39
before moving移动 to another另一个 small town,
Frankfort法兰克福, Kentucky肯塔基.
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基本上我是在美国的小镇长大的,
02:42
Basically基本上, I grew成长 up
in small-town小城 America美国,
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那里以保守著称。
02:44
conservative保守 at its heart.
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02:46
Now, Stearns贝尔斯登 and Berkeley伯克利 --
they're a little different不同.
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当然,斯特恩斯跟伯克利,
还是有那么一点点区别的。
02:50
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
02:53
So in the '90s I moved移动 out west西
to a progressive进步 area
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90年代我搬到了西部,
进步主义的地区,
02:57
to work in technology技术 --
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在技术行业工作,
02:58
worked工作 at Microsoft微软, worked工作 at Netscape网景.
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在微软,在网景。
03:00
I actually其实 became成为 the product产品 manager经理 lead
for Netscape网景 Navigator航海家,
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后来做了网景导航的
产品经理负责人,
网景导航是第一款主流的浏览器。
03:04
the first popular流行 web卷筒纸 browser浏览器.
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03:06
Now in the early days of the internet互联网,
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在因特网发展早期,
我们都被一个愿景激励和打动:
03:08
we were just moved移动
and inspired启发 by a vision视力:
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03:11
when we're connected连接的 to all
these different不同 people around the world世界
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当我们可以将全世界不同的人,
不同的想法都连接起来的时候,
03:14
and all these different不同 ideas思路,
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我们就能做出伟大的决定,
03:16
we'll be able能够 to make great decisions决定,
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就能对世界的多姿多彩
03:17
and we'll be able能够 to appreciate欣赏 each other
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心怀感恩之心。
03:20
for the beautiful美丽 diversity多样
that the whole整个 world世界 has to offer提供.
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20年前,我还进行过一次演讲,
03:23
Now I also, 20 years年份 ago, gave a speech言语
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说事情可能并不会这样发展,
03:24
saying it might威力 not work out that way,
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03:27
that we might威力 actually其实 be trained熟练
to discriminate辨析 against反对 each other
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我们可能会被训练用新的方法
03:31
in new ways方法.
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来区别对待对方。
03:34
So what happened发生?
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为什么会这样?
03:36
It's not like we just woke醒来 up one day
and decided决定 to hate讨厌 each other more.
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并不是说我们某天醒来,
一拍脑袋决定更加恨彼此。
03:40
Here's这里的 what happened发生.
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情况是这样的。
03:42
There's just too much noise噪声 --
too many许多 people, too many许多 ideas思路 --
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只不过有太多杂音,太多的人,
太多的主意,
03:45
so we use technology技术
to filter过滤 it out a little bit.
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我们要利用技术过滤掉一些。
03:47
And what happens发生?
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结果会怎样呢?
03:49
It lets让我们 in ideas思路 I already已经 agree同意 with.
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它会让我已经认同的观点进入。
03:52
It lets让我们 in the popular流行 ideas思路,
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让最主流的观点进入,
03:54
it lets让我们 in people just like me
who think just like me.
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让跟我类似的人,
跟我思维方式相同的人进入。
03:56
That sounds声音 kind of good, right?
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听起来很不错,对吗?
03:58
Well, not necessarily一定,
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然而并不一定,
04:01
because two very scary害怕 things happen发生
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因为我们的世界观如此狭隘的话,
04:04
when we have such这样 narrow狭窄 worldviews世界观.
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会发生2件很可怕的事情。
04:06
First, we become成为 more extreme极端
in our beliefs信仰.
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首先,我们对自己所相信的事
会变得偏激。
04:11
Second第二, we become成为 less tolerant宽容
of anybody任何人 who's谁是 different不同 than we are.
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其次,我们对于跟自己不同的人
会越来越不宽容。
04:18
Does this sound声音 familiar?
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听起来是不是有点熟悉?
04:20
Does this sound声音 like modern现代 America美国?
The modern现代 world世界?
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这还是现代的美国?现代的世界吗?
04:24
Well, the good news新闻 is
that technology技术 is changing改变,
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但好消息是,技术在变化,
04:26
and it could change更改 for the better.
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向着好的方向变化。
这就是我创办AllSides.com的原因,
04:28
And that's, in fact事实,
why I started开始 AllSidesAllSides.comCOM --
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04:31
to create创建 technologies技术 and services服务
to free自由 us from these filter过滤 bubbles泡泡.
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提供技术和服务,
来打破这些过滤气泡。
04:35
The very first thing we did was create创建
technology技术 that identifies识别 bias偏压,
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我们首先发明了一项技术,
来分辨各种倾向,
04:38
so we could show显示 different不同
perspectives观点 side by side
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把不同的观点放在一起展示,
04:42
to free自由 us from the filter过滤
bubbles泡泡 of news新闻 media媒体.
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帮我们打破新媒体的过滤气泡。
04:46
And then I met会见 Joan.
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后来我遇到了琼。
04:49
JBJB: So I met会见 John约翰 outside
of Washington华盛顿, DCDC,
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JB:我是在华盛顿郊外遇到的约翰,
04:52
with an idealistic理想主义 group
of cross-partisan跨党派 bridge builders建设者,
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他跟一群理想主义者在一起,
希望搭建跨党派交流的桥梁,
04:58
and we wanted to re-weave重新编织
the fabric of our communities社区.
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我们都希望重塑社区的结构。
05:02
We believe that our differences分歧
can be a strength强度,
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我们相信,我们的不同
能成为一种力量,
05:06
that our values can be complimentary免费
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我们的价值观都值得赞美,
05:09
and that we have to overcome克服 the fight斗争
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我们要终结对抗,
05:12
so that we can honor荣誉 everyone's大家的 values
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才能尊重彼此的价值观,
05:14
and not lose失去 any of our own拥有.
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同时也不必放弃自己的价值观。
05:17
I went for this wonderful精彩 walk步行 with John约翰,
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我跟约翰边走边聊,很开心,
05:19
where I started开始 learning学习
about the work he was doing
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我开始了解他所做的事情,
打破信息过滤的气泡。
05:21
to pierce刺穿 the filter过滤 bubble泡沫.
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05:23
It was powerful强大;
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很有力量,
05:25
it was brilliant辉煌.
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天才的想法。
05:27
Living活的 in separate分离 narratives叙事 is not good.
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生活在孤立的舆论中并不好。
05:30
We can't even have a conversation会话
or do collaborative共同 problem-solving解决问题
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如果我们不分享同一件事,
我们甚至无法进行对话,
05:34
when we don't share分享 the same相同 facts事实.
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或者合作来解决问题。
05:38
JGJG: So one thing you take away from today今天
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JG:所以今天学到的一件事就是,
05:40
is if Joan Blades叶片 asks you
to go on a walk步行,
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如果琼·布雷兹叫你去散步,
05:43
go on that walk步行.
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你一定要去。
05:44
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
05:45
It changed things. It really changed
the way I was thinking思维 about things.
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这真的带来了改变,
改变了我思考问题的方式。
把我们从过滤气泡中解救出来,
05:49
To free自由 ourselves我们自己 from the filter过滤 bubbles泡泡,
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除了信息过滤气泡,
05:51
we can't just think about
information信息 filter过滤 bubbles泡泡,
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还有人际关系和社交的过滤气泡。
05:54
but also relationship关系
and social社会 filter过滤 bubbles泡泡.
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05:56
You see, we human人的 beings众生 -- we're not
nearly几乎 as smart聪明 as we think we are.
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我们人类,并没有
自认为的那么聪明。
我们大部分时间
都不会理智地做决定。
06:00
We don't generally通常 make
decisions决定 intellectually知性上.
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而是凭感觉,凭直觉,
06:02
We make them emotionally感情上, intuitively直观地,
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然后用我们又大又老的大脑,
06:04
and then we use our big old brains大脑
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为所有事情找一个合理的解释。
06:06
to rationalize理顺 anything
we want to rationalize理顺.
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06:08
We're not really like Vulcans瓦肯人
like Mr先生. Spock斯波克,
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我们不像瓦肯人,不像史波克先生,
06:12
we're more like bold胆大 cowboys牛仔
like Captain队长 Kirk柯克,
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而更像柯克船长那样的冒失牛仔,
06:15
or passionate多情 idealists理想主义 者 like Dr博士. McCoy麦科伊.
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或者像麦科伊博士那样
充满激情的理想主义者。
06:19
OK, for those of y'all你们 who prefer比较喜欢
the new "Star Trek跋涉" crew船员,
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好吧,知道你们这些人更喜欢
新《星际迷航》的船员,
满足你们。
06:22
here you go.
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(笑声)
06:23
(Laughter笑声)
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JB:别忘了坚强的女性们!
06:24
JBJB: Don't forget忘记 the strong强大 women妇女!
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06:26
JGJG: Come on, strong强大 women妇女. OK.
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JG:好吧,坚强的女性们。来了。
06:28
JBJB: All right.
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JB:好的。
06:29
John约翰 and I are both "Star Trek跋涉" fans球迷.
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约翰和我都是《星际迷航》的粉丝。
谁会不爱那么乐观的未来呢?
06:31
What's not to love about a future未来
with that kind of optimism乐观?
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06:36
JGJG: And having a good future未来 in mind心神
is a big deal合同 -- very important重要.
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JG:对未来充满憧憬
是一件大事,非常重要。
知道问题出在哪儿,也非常重要。
06:40
And understanding理解 what the problem问题 is
is very important重要.
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但是我们必须要做点什么。
06:42
But we have to do something.
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我们要怎么做呢?
06:44
So what do we do?
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06:45
It's actually其实 not that hard.
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其实也没那么难。
我们要增加生活的多样性,
06:46
We have to add diversity多样 to our lives生活 --
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06:48
not just information信息,
but relationship关系 diversity多样.
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不仅仅是信息的多样性,
还有人际关系。
06:52
And by diversity多样,
I mean big "D" diversity多样,
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我说的多样性,
本身也是非常“多样”的,
06:54
not just racial种族 and gender性别,
which哪一个 are very important重要,
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不仅在种族和性别方面,
这2者当然非常重要,
但还包括,
06:57
but also ...
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06:59
diversity多样 of age年龄, like young年轻 and old;
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年龄的多样性,
比如年轻的和年老的,
07:02
rural乡村 and urban城市的;
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农村的和城市的,
07:04
liberal自由主义的 and conservative保守;
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自由的和保守的,
07:07
in the US, Democrat民主党人 and Republican共和党人.
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就美国而言,
也就是民主党人和共和党人。
07:10
Now, one of the great examples例子
of somebody freeing自由化 themselves他们自己
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我这儿有一个非常好的例子,
她顺利打破了自己的过滤气泡,
07:13
from their filter过滤 bubbles泡泡
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07:14
and getting得到 a more diverse多种 life
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让自己的生活更加多样化,
07:16
is, once一旦 again, next下一个 to me -- Joan.
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还是坐在我身边的这位,琼!
07:19
JBJB: So the question is:
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JB:问大家一个问题,
07:21
Who among其中 you has had
relationships关系 lost丢失 or harmed伤害
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你们当中有谁,因为政治观点、
宗教信仰或者其他观点的不同,
07:25
due应有 to differences分歧 in politics政治,
religion宗教 or whatever随你?
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而导致关系受损甚至终结?
07:29
Raise提高 your hands.
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请举一下手。
07:31
Yeah.
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好吧。
近一年来我跟许多人交流过,
07:33
This year I have talked to so many许多 people
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07:35
that have experienced有经验的 that kind of loss失利.
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他们都有过类似的经历。
07:41
I've seen看到 tears眼泪 well up in people's人们 eyes眼睛
as they talk about family家庭 members会员
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谈起自己形同陌路的家人,
他们眼里噙满了泪水。
07:45
from whom they're estranged疏远.
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07:48
Living活的 Room房间 Conversations对话 were designed设计
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“起居室对话”设计的初衷
07:51
to begin开始 to heal愈合 political政治
and personal个人 differences分歧.
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是为了弥合政治和个性上的不同。
07:57
They're simple简单 conversations对话
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形式很简单,
07:59
where two friends朋友 with different不同
viewpoints观点 each invite邀请 two friends朋友
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2个持有不同观点的朋友,
各自再邀请2位朋友,
08:04
for structured结构化的 conversation会话,
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来进行交谈,
08:05
where everyone's大家的 agreed同意
to some simple简单 ground地面 rules规则:
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每个人都遵守几项基本原则:
08:08
curiosity好奇心, listening,
respect尊重, taking服用 turns --
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好奇,倾听,尊重,轮流发言,
08:12
everything we learned学到了
in kindergarten幼儿园, right?
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这些是我们在幼儿园
就学会了的,对吗?
08:14
Really easy简单.
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非常简单。
08:16
So by the time you're talking about
the topic话题 you've agreed同意 to talk about,
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你们讨论着事先定好的话题,
随着交流的继续,
08:20
you actually其实 have the sense that,
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你慢慢感觉到,
08:22
"You know, I kind of like this person,"
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“其实,我还挺喜欢这个人的,”
于是你倾听的方式都改变了。
08:24
and you listen to each other differently不同.
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08:26
That's kind of a human人的 condition条件;
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这就是人类的特点,
08:28
we listen differently不同
to people we care关心 about.
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对于自己在乎的人,
我们会更愿意倾听。
08:31
And then there's reflection反射
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然后你可能有新的想法,
08:33
and possibly或者 next下一个 steps脚步.
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交谈会继续下去。
08:36
This is a deep listening practice实践;
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这就是深度倾听的一个实践,
08:38
it's never a debate辩论.
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并不是要辩论什么。
08:41
And that's incredibly令人难以置信 powerful强大.
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难以置信的有效。
08:43
These conversations对话
in our own拥有 living活的 rooms客房
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这些交谈就发生在
我们自己家的起居室,
08:47
with people who have different不同 viewpoints观点
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交谈对象是拥有不同观点的人,
08:50
are an incredible难以置信 adventure冒险.
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这真的是一场不可思议的冒险。
08:52
We rediscover重新发现 that we can respect尊重
and even love people
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我们发现,对于跟我们不同的人,
08:55
that are different不同 from us.
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我们也可以尊重,甚至可以去爱。
08:58
And it's powerful强大.
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非常有力量。
09:01
JGJG: So, what are you curious好奇 about?
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JG:那么,你们对什么感到好奇?
09:04
JBJB: What's the conversation会话
you yearn向往 to have?
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JB:你们渴望进行一场
什么样的对话?
09:07
JGJG: Let's do this together一起.
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JG:我们一起努力吧。
09:09
Together一起.
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一起努力。
09:10
JBJB: Yes.
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JB:好的!
09:11
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
09:12
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
09:15
JBJB and JGJG: Thank you.
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JB&JG:谢谢大家。
Translated by Alvin Lee
Reviewed by Wei Wu

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ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Joan Blades - Domestic peace advocate
Joan Blades shares a simple six-person conversation guide that helps people with differences get to know and even like each other.

Why you should listen

Joan Blades is a co-founder of LivingRoomConversations.org, an open-source effort to rebuild respectful civil discourse across ideological, cultural and party lines while embracing our core-shared values. She is also a co-founder of MomsRising.org and MoveOn.org. She is a co-author of The Custom-Fit Workplace: Choose When, Where and How to Work and Boost Your Bottom Line, winner of a Nautilus book award in 2011, and The Motherhood Manifesto, which won the Ernesta Drinker Ballard Book Prize in 2007.

Last century, Blades was a software entrepreneur, a co-founder of Berkeley Systems, best known for the Flying Toaster and the game "You Don't Know Jack." A mediator (attorney) by training and inclination, she is a nature lover, artist and true believer in the power of citizens and our need to rebuild respectful civil discourse while embracing our core shared values.

More profile about the speaker
Joan Blades | Speaker | TED.com
John Gable - Technologist, activist
John Gable is the founder and CEO of AllSides.com, which builds better understanding across divides.

Why you should listen

John Gable offers a unique combination of technology and politics. He started in tech 24 years ago by joining the original Microsoft Office team, then became the PM team lead for Netscape Navigator. He also led ZoneAlarm at Check Point Software, and cofounded and sold Kavi Corp. Gable was previously a Republican operative, working for three Senate majority leaders (Howard Baker, Trent Lott, Mitch McConnell), the Republican National Committee and George H.W. Bush.

Now Gable and his multi-partisan AllSides.com team use technology to present news and issues from many angles to allow people to make up their own minds. Their mission: "free people from filter bubbles so they can better understand the world and each other."

More profile about the speaker
John Gable | Speaker | TED.com