ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Joan Blades - Domestic peace advocate
Joan Blades shares a simple six-person conversation guide that helps people with differences get to know and even like each other.

Why you should listen

Joan Blades is a co-founder of LivingRoomConversations.org, an open-source effort to rebuild respectful civil discourse across ideological, cultural and party lines while embracing our core-shared values. She is also a co-founder of MomsRising.org and MoveOn.org. She is a co-author of The Custom-Fit Workplace: Choose When, Where and How to Work and Boost Your Bottom Line, winner of a Nautilus book award in 2011, and The Motherhood Manifesto, which won the Ernesta Drinker Ballard Book Prize in 2007.

Last century, Blades was a software entrepreneur, a co-founder of Berkeley Systems, best known for the Flying Toaster and the game "You Don't Know Jack." A mediator (attorney) by training and inclination, she is a nature lover, artist and true believer in the power of citizens and our need to rebuild respectful civil discourse while embracing our core shared values.

More profile about the speaker
Joan Blades | Speaker | TED.com
John Gable - Technologist, activist
John Gable is the founder and CEO of AllSides.com, which builds better understanding across divides.

Why you should listen

John Gable offers a unique combination of technology and politics. He started in tech 24 years ago by joining the original Microsoft Office team, then became the PM team lead for Netscape Navigator. He also led ZoneAlarm at Check Point Software, and cofounded and sold Kavi Corp. Gable was previously a Republican operative, working for three Senate majority leaders (Howard Baker, Trent Lott, Mitch McConnell), the Republican National Committee and George H.W. Bush.

Now Gable and his multi-partisan AllSides.com team use technology to present news and issues from many angles to allow people to make up their own minds. Their mission: "free people from filter bubbles so they can better understand the world and each other."

More profile about the speaker
John Gable | Speaker | TED.com
TEDWomen 2017

Joan Blades and John Gable: Free yourself from your filter bubbles

瓊安布雷德&約翰蓋博: 脫離自己的過濾泡泡

Filmed:
1,322,054 views

瓊安布雷德與約翰蓋博希望你能和跟你投票給不同黨的人交朋友。這對長年的好友在政治上是對立的,他們知道和你無法立即認同的人進行誠懇對談的價值。聽聽他們說明,在政治光譜兩端的人是如何架起理解的橋樑,並創造機會互相傾聽以及尊重(可能還會形成長久的友誼)。
- Domestic peace advocate
Joan Blades shares a simple six-person conversation guide that helps people with differences get to know and even like each other. Full bio - Technologist, activist
John Gable is the founder and CEO of AllSides.com, which builds better understanding across divides. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Joan Blades葉片: Do you have
politically政治上 diverse多種 friends朋友?
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瓊安布雷德:你是否有
各種政治傾向的朋友?
00:15
What do you talk about with them?
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你和他們都談什麼?
00:18
I'm a progressive進步; I live生活
in a town full充分 of progressives進步,
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我是改革派;我住在都是
進步人士的小鎮中,
00:20
and 15 years年份 ago, I didn't have
any conservative保守 friends朋友.
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十五年前,我沒有
任何保守派的朋友。
00:24
Now I have a wonderful精彩 mix混合 of friends朋友,
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現在,我有各種政治傾向的好朋友,
00:27
and they include包括 John約翰.
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包括約翰在內。
00:29
John約翰 Gable蓋博: I am not a progressive進步.
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約翰蓋博:我不是改革派。
00:31
I'm a Republican共和黨人 who grew成長 up
in a Republican共和黨人 family家庭
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我是共和黨,在共和黨家庭中長大,
00:34
in the conservative保守 South,
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我家在保守的南方,
00:35
and even worked工作 in Republican共和黨人 politics政治,
locally本地 and at the national國民 level水平.
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我甚至在共和黨政治圈工作,
地方性和全國性的層級都有。
00:39
But the last 24 years年份,
I've been in technology技術
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但,過去 24 年,我都在科技業,
00:42
and living活的 in a very progressive進步 area.
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且住在非常改革派的區域。
00:44
So I have a lot of progressive進步 friends朋友,
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我有很多改革派的朋友,
00:46
including包含 Joan.
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包括瓊安。
00:48
JBJB: I was born天生 in Berkeley伯克利, California加州,
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瓊安:我在加州柏克萊出生,
00:51
a notoriously臭名昭著 progressive進步 college學院 town.
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一個以改革派聞名的大學鎮。
00:54
And I live生活 there now.
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我現在也住在那裡。
00:56
In 1998, six months個月 into the Monica莫妮卡
Lewinsky-Clinton萊溫斯基-克林頓 impeachment彈劾 scandal醜聞,
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1998 年,萊文斯基醜聞過後半年,
01:02
I helped幫助 cofoundcofound MoveOnmoveon.org組織
with a one-sentence一個句子 petition請願:
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我協助共同創立了 MoveOn.org
(走下去.org),請願只有一句話:
01:07
"Congress國會 must必須 immediately立即
censure譴責 the president主席
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「國會必須要立即譴責總統,
01:10
and move移動 on to pressing緊迫 issues問題
facing面對 the nation國家."
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然後就繼續走下去,
去處理國家面臨的迫切議題。」
01:13
Now, that was actually其實
a very unifying統一 petition請願 in many許多 ways方法.
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其實在許多層面上,
那是個很統一的請願。
01:17
You could love Clinton克林頓 or hate討厭 Clinton克林頓
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你也許愛柯林頓,也許恨柯林頓,
01:19
and agree同意 that the best最好 thing
for the country國家 was to move移動 on.
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但都能同意對國家
最好的做法就是走下去。
01:23
As the leader領導 of MoveOnmoveon,
I saw the polarization極化 just continue繼續.
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身為 MoveOn 的領導人,
我看到兩極化仍然持續著。
01:28
And I found發現 myself wondering想知道
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我發現,我很納悶,
01:31
why I saw things so differently不同
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為什麼我和美國其他地區的許多人,
01:34
than many許多 people
in other parts部分 of the country國家.
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在看事情的角度上有這麼大的不同?
01:36
So in 2005, when I had an opportunity機會
to get together一起 with grassroots基層 leaders領導者
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所以,2005 年,我有機會
跟一些跨政治分裂的
01:42
across橫過 the political政治 divide劃分,
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草根領導人聚會,
01:45
I grabbed抓起 it.
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我抓住了機會。
01:47
And I became成為 friends朋友 with a lot of people
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我和許多人成為朋友,
01:49
I never had a chance機會 to talk to before.
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我以前都沒機會和這些人說話。
01:53
And that included包括 leadership領導
in the Christian基督教 Coalition聯盟,
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包括了美國基督徒聯盟的領導階層,
01:56
often經常 seen看到 as on the right
the way MoveOnmoveon is seen看到 as on the left.
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他們被視為右派,
而 MoveOn 被視為左派。
02:00
And this lead to me
showing展示 up on Capitol國會大廈 Hill爬坡道
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這導致我出現在國會山莊,
02:04
with one of the Christian基督教 Coalition聯盟
leaders領導者, my friend朋友,
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同行的是美國基督徒聯盟的
一位領導者,也是我的朋友,
02:08
to lobby前廳 for net neutrality中立.
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去遊說網路中立性。
02:10
That was powerful強大.
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那很強大。
02:11
We turned轉身 heads.
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我們引起了注意。
02:13
So this work was transformational轉型 for me.
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這份工作轉化了我。
02:17
And I found發現 myself wondering想知道:
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我發現我在納悶:
02:20
How could vast廣大 numbers數字 of people
have the opportunity機會
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為什麼這麼多人有機會
02:24
to really connect with people
that have very different不同 views意見?
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可以真正和人連結,
卻有如此不同的觀點?
02:28
JGJG: I was born天生 Oneida奧奈達, Tennessee田納西,
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約翰:我生在田納西的奧奈達,
02:31
right across橫過 the state border邊境
from a small coal煤炭 mining礦業 town,
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橫越州邊界,來自一個煤礦小鎮,
肯塔基的斯特恩斯。
02:35
Stearns貝爾斯登, Kentucky肯塔基.
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02:37
And I lived生活 there
for the first few少數 years年份 of my life,
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我人生中的前幾年住在那裡,
接著搬到另一個小鎮,
肯塔基的法蘭克福。
02:39
before moving移動 to another另一個 small town,
Frankfort法蘭克福, Kentucky肯塔基.
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基本上,我在美國小鎮中長大,
02:42
Basically基本上, I grew成長 up
in small-town小城 America美國,
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從骨子裡就很保守。
02:44
conservative保守 at its heart.
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02:46
Now, Stearns貝爾斯登 and Berkeley伯克利 --
they're a little different不同.
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斯特恩斯和柏克萊-它們有點不同。
02:50
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
02:53
So in the '90s I moved移動 out west西
to a progressive進步 area
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在九○年代,我搬出去,
到了西邊的改革派地區,
02:57
to work in technology技術 --
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去科技業工作-
02:58
worked工作 at Microsoft微軟, worked工作 at Netscape網景.
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在微軟工作,在網景工作。
03:00
I actually其實 became成為 the product產品 manager經理 lead
for Netscape網景 Navigator航海家,
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我真的當上了
「網景領航員」的產品經理,
那是第一個普及的網路瀏覽器。
03:04
the first popular流行 web捲筒紙 browser瀏覽器.
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03:06
Now in the early days of the internet互聯網,
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在網際網路的初期,
03:08
we were just moved移動
and inspired啟發 by a vision視力:
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我們是被一個遠景給感動和鼓舞的:
03:11
when we're connected連接的 to all
these different不同 people around the world世界
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當我們能夠與全世界各種不同的人、
03:14
and all these different不同 ideas思路,
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不同的想法連結,
03:16
we'll be able能夠 to make great decisions決定,
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我們將能夠做出很好的決策,
03:17
and we'll be able能夠 to appreciate欣賞 each other
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我們將能夠欣賞彼此,
03:20
for the beautiful美麗 diversity多樣
that the whole整個 world世界 has to offer提供.
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欣賞世界所帶給我們的美好多樣性。
03:23
Now I also, 20 years年份 ago, gave a speech言語
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二十年前,我也做過一次演說,
03:24
saying it might威力 not work out that way,
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說將來可能不會是那樣的,
03:27
that we might威力 actually其實 be trained熟練
to discriminate辨析 against反對 each other
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我們可能其實會被訓練成用新的方式
03:31
in new ways方法.
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歧視彼此。
03:34
So what happened發生?
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所以,發生了什麼事?
03:36
It's not like we just woke醒來 up one day
and decided決定 to hate討厭 each other more.
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並不是我們有一天醒來
就決定要再多恨彼此一點。
03:40
Here's這裡的 what happened發生.
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發生的狀況是這樣的。
03:42
There's just too much noise噪聲 --
too many許多 people, too many許多 ideas思路 --
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有太多噪音了-太多人、太多想法-
03:45
so we use technology技術
to filter過濾 it out a little bit.
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所以我們用科技來一點一點過濾。
03:47
And what happens發生?
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接著發生什麼事?
03:49
It lets讓我們 in ideas思路 I already已經 agree同意 with.
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我放行的是我已經認同的想法。
03:52
It lets讓我們 in the popular流行 ideas思路,
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普及的想法會被放行,
03:54
it lets讓我們 in people just like me
who think just like me.
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和我一樣的人,想法
和我一樣的人會被放行。
03:56
That sounds聲音 kind of good, right?
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聽起來很好,對嗎?
03:58
Well, not necessarily一定,
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不見得,
04:01
because two very scary害怕 things happen發生
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因為當我們的世界觀這麼狹窄時,
04:04
when we have such這樣 narrow狹窄 worldviews世界觀.
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有兩件很可怕的事發生了。
04:06
First, we become成為 more extreme極端
in our beliefs信仰.
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第一,我們在信念上變得很極端。
04:11
Second第二, we become成為 less tolerant寬容
of anybody任何人 who's誰是 different不同 than we are.
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第二,對於和我們不同的人,
我們的容忍度降低了。
04:18
Does this sound聲音 familiar?
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聽起來很耳熟嗎?
04:20
Does this sound聲音 like modern現代 America美國?
The modern現代 world世界?
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聽起來像是現代美國嗎?現代世界?
04:24
Well, the good news新聞 is
that technology技術 is changing改變,
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好消息是,科技在改變,
它能變得更好。
04:26
and it could change更改 for the better.
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事實上,那就是為什麼我創造了
AllSides.com(所有各方.com),
04:28
And that's, in fact事實,
why I started開始 AllSidesAllSides.comCOM --
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04:31
to create創建 technologies技術 and services服務
to free自由 us from these filter過濾 bubbles泡泡.
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為了創造出能將我們從
過濾泡泡中解放的技術和服務。
04:35
The very first thing we did was create創建
technology技術 that identifies識別 bias偏壓,
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我們做的第一件事就是
創造出能辨別偏見的技術,
04:38
so we could show顯示 different不同
perspectives觀點 side by side
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這樣我們才能把
不同的觀點一起呈現,
04:42
to free自由 us from the filter過濾
bubbles泡泡 of news新聞 media媒體.
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讓我們脫離新聞媒體的過濾泡泡。
04:46
And then I met會見 Joan.
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接著,我遇到了瓊安。
04:49
JBJB: So I met會見 John約翰 outside
of Washington華盛頓, DCDC,
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瓊安:我在華盛頓
特區外認識了約翰,
04:52
with an idealistic理想主義 group
of cross-partisan跨黨派 bridge builders建設者,
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還有一個理想主義團體,
成員都是在建立跨越黨派橋樑的人,
04:58
and we wanted to re-weave重新編織
the fabric of our communities社區.
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我們想要重建我們社群的結構。
05:02
We believe that our differences分歧
can be a strength強度,
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我們相信,我們的歧見
可以成為優勢,
05:06
that our values can be complimentary免費
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我們的價值觀可以是互補的,
05:09
and that we have to overcome克服 the fight鬥爭
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且我們得要克服這鬥爭,
05:12
so that we can honor榮譽 everyone's大家的 values
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讓我們能夠尊重每個人的價值觀,
05:14
and not lose失去 any of our own擁有.
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同時不失去自己的。
05:17
I went for this wonderful精彩 walk步行 with John約翰,
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我和約翰的對談非常美好,
05:19
where I started開始 learning學習
about the work he was doing
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談話中,我開始了解他做的工作,
05:21
to pierce刺穿 the filter過濾 bubble泡沫.
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刺穿過濾泡泡。
05:23
It was powerful強大;
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那很強大;
05:25
it was brilliant輝煌.
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那很出色。
05:27
Living活的 in separate分離 narratives敘事 is not good.
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住在不同的故事當中並非好事。
05:30
We can't even have a conversation會話
or do collaborative共同 problem-solving解決問題
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當我們沒有共同的事實時,
我們甚至無法交談
05:34
when we don't share分享 the same相同 facts事實.
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或是共同解決問題。
約翰:所以,今天你們能學到的是,
05:38
JGJG: So one thing you take away from today今天
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05:40
is if Joan Blades葉片 asks you
to go on a walk步行,
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如果瓊安布雷德請你去散步,
05:43
go on that walk步行.
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那就去散步。
05:44
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
05:45
It changed things. It really changed
the way I was thinking思維 about things.
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它會造成改變。
它真的改變了我對事物的看法。
05:49
To free自由 ourselves我們自己 from the filter過濾 bubbles泡泡,
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要讓我們脫離過濾泡泡,
05:51
we can't just think about
information信息 filter過濾 bubbles泡泡,
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我們不能只想著資訊過濾泡泡,
05:54
but also relationship關係
and social社會 filter過濾 bubbles泡泡.
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還要去想關係以及社交過濾泡泡。
05:56
You see, we human人的 beings眾生 -- we're not
nearly幾乎 as smart聰明 as we think we are.
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我們人類沒有自己想的那麼聰明。
06:00
We don't generally通常 make
decisions決定 intellectually知性上.
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我們通常不會做出明智的決策。
06:02
We make them emotionally感情上, intuitively直觀地,
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我們的決策是情緒的、直覺的,
06:04
and then we use our big old brains大腦
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然後再用又大又老的腦袋
來把我們想合理化的一切給合理化。
06:06
to rationalize理順 anything
we want to rationalize理順.
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06:08
We're not really like Vulcans
like Mr先生. Spock斯波克,
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我們並不像瓦肯人,不像史巴克,
06:12
we're more like bold膽大 cowboys牛仔
like Captain隊長 Kirk柯克,
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我們較像魯莽的牛仔,像柯克艦長,
06:15
or passionate多情 idealists理想主義 like Dr博士. McCoy麥科伊.
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或是熱情的理想主義者,
像老骨頭麥考伊。
06:19
OK, for those of y'all你們 who prefer比較喜歡
the new "Star Trek跋涉" crew船員,
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如果你們比較喜歡新的
《星艦迷航記》成員,
06:22
here you go.
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那就給你們吧。
06:23
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
06:24
JBJB: Don't forget忘記 the strong強大 women婦女!
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瓊安:別忘了堅強的女性們!
06:26
JGJG: Come on, strong強大 women婦女. OK.
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約翰:來吧,堅強的女性。
06:28
JBJB: All right.
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瓊安:好。
約翰和我都是《星艦迷航記》迷。
06:29
John約翰 and I are both "Star Trek跋涉" fans球迷.
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06:31
What's not to love about a future未來
with that kind of optimism樂觀?
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有著那種樂觀主義的未來,
怎麼會不讓人喜歡?
06:36
JGJG: And having a good future未來 in mind心神
is a big deal合同 -- very important重要.
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約翰:心中有個美好的未來
是至關緊要的-非常重要。
06:40
And understanding理解 what the problem問題 is
is very important重要.
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了解問題是什麼,是非常重要的。
06:42
But we have to do something.
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但我們得要採取行動。
06:44
So what do we do?
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我們要怎麼做?
06:45
It's actually其實 not that hard.
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其實沒有那麼難。
06:46
We have to add diversity多樣 to our lives生活 --
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我們得在我們的生活中加入多樣性-
不只是資訊,還有關係的多樣性。
06:48
not just information信息,
but relationship關係 diversity多樣.
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06:52
And by diversity多樣,
I mean big "D" diversity多樣,
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我所指的多樣性是很廣泛的,
06:54
not just racial種族 and gender性別,
which哪一個 are very important重要,
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種族和性別是很重要,但不只這些,
06:57
but also ...
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還有…
06:59
diversity多樣 of age年齡, like young年輕 and old;
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年齡的多樣性,比如年輕及年邁、
07:02
rural鄉村 and urban城市的;
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郊區及市區、
07:04
liberal自由主義的 and conservative保守;
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自由及保守,
07:07
in the US, Democrat民主黨人 and Republican共和黨人.
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還有在美國的民主黨及共和黨。
07:10
Now, one of the great examples例子
of somebody freeing自由化 themselves他們自己
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有一個很棒的例子
可以說明人要如何脫離
07:13
from their filter過濾 bubbles泡泡
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他們的過濾泡泡,
07:14
and getting得到 a more diverse多種 life
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提高人生中的多樣性,
07:16
is, once一旦 again, next下一個 to me -- Joan.
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這例子又是,我旁邊的瓊安。
07:19
JBJB: So the question is:
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瓊安:所以,問題是:
07:21
Who among其中 you has had
relationships關係 lost丟失 or harmed傷害
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在座各位有誰遇過因為政治、宗教、
或其他歧見而造成關係斷絕或受損?
07:25
due應有 to differences分歧 in politics政治,
religion宗教 or whatever隨你?
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07:29
Raise提高 your hands.
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請舉手。
07:31
Yeah.
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好。
07:33
This year I have talked to so many許多 people
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今年,我和好多人談過,
07:35
that have experienced有經驗的 that kind of loss失利.
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4304
他們都經歷過這種損失。
07:41
I've seen看到 tears眼淚 well up in people's人們 eyes眼睛
as they talk about family家庭 members會員
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我見過人們在談他們疏遠的家人時
眼中泛著淚光。
07:45
from whom they're estranged疏遠.
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07:48
Living活的 Room房間 Conversations對話 were designed設計
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「客廳對談」的設計目的
07:51
to begin開始 to heal癒合 political政治
and personal個人 differences分歧.
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是要治癒政治和個人的歧見。
07:57
They're simple簡單 conversations對話
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它們是很簡單的對談,
07:59
where two friends朋友 with different不同
viewpoints觀點 each invite邀請 two friends朋友
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觀點不同的兩位朋友,
各自邀請兩位朋友,
08:04
for structured結構化的 conversation會話,
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來做結構性的對談,
08:05
where everyone's大家的 agreed約定
to some simple簡單 ground地面 rules規則:
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對談的每個人都要同意
遵守簡單的基本規則:
08:08
curiosity好奇心, listening,
respect尊重, taking服用 turns --
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好奇心、傾聽、尊重、輪流-
08:12
everything we learned學到了
in kindergarten幼兒園, right?
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都是我們在幼稚園學到的,對吧?
08:14
Really easy簡單.
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很簡單。
08:16
So by the time you're talking about
the topic話題 you've agreed約定 to talk about,
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所以,當你在談論
你同意要談的話題時,
08:20
you actually其實 have the sense that,
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你其實會感覺到:
「你知道嗎,我還算喜歡這個人。」
08:22
"You know, I kind of like this person,"
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08:24
and you listen to each other differently不同.
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且你會用不同的方式傾聽彼此。
08:26
That's kind of a human人的 condition條件;
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那是一種人性,
我們會用不同方式傾聽我們在乎的人。
08:28
we listen differently不同
to people we care關心 about.
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2270
08:31
And then there's reflection反射
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1976
接著會有反思,
08:33
and possibly或者 next下一個 steps腳步.
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可能會有後續步驟。
08:36
This is a deep listening practice實踐;
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這是深度傾聽的練習,
08:38
it's never a debate辯論.
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從來就不是辯論。
08:41
And that's incredibly令人難以置信 powerful強大.
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那是非常強大的。
08:43
These conversations對話
in our own擁有 living活的 rooms客房
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在我們自家客廳和不同觀點的人
08:47
with people who have different不同 viewpoints觀點
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所做的這些交談,
08:50
are an incredible難以置信 adventure冒險.
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是場非常棒的冒險。
08:52
We rediscover重新發現 that we can respect尊重
and even love people
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我們重新發現,我們能夠
尊重和我們不同的人,
08:55
that are different不同 from us.
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甚至去愛他們。
08:58
And it's powerful強大.
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這很強大。
09:01
JGJG: So, what are you curious好奇 about?
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約翰:所以,你對什麼感到好奇?
09:04
JBJB: What's the conversation會話
you yearn嚮往 to have?
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瓊安:你渴望交談的是什麼?
09:07
JGJG: Let's do this together一起.
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約翰:咱們一起來這樣做。
09:09
Together一起.
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同心協力。
09:10
JBJB: Yes.
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瓊安:是的。
09:11
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
09:12
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
09:15
JBJB and JGJG: Thank you.
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瓊安和約翰:謝謝。
Translated by Lilian Chiu
Reviewed by Adrienne Lin

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ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Joan Blades - Domestic peace advocate
Joan Blades shares a simple six-person conversation guide that helps people with differences get to know and even like each other.

Why you should listen

Joan Blades is a co-founder of LivingRoomConversations.org, an open-source effort to rebuild respectful civil discourse across ideological, cultural and party lines while embracing our core-shared values. She is also a co-founder of MomsRising.org and MoveOn.org. She is a co-author of The Custom-Fit Workplace: Choose When, Where and How to Work and Boost Your Bottom Line, winner of a Nautilus book award in 2011, and The Motherhood Manifesto, which won the Ernesta Drinker Ballard Book Prize in 2007.

Last century, Blades was a software entrepreneur, a co-founder of Berkeley Systems, best known for the Flying Toaster and the game "You Don't Know Jack." A mediator (attorney) by training and inclination, she is a nature lover, artist and true believer in the power of citizens and our need to rebuild respectful civil discourse while embracing our core shared values.

More profile about the speaker
Joan Blades | Speaker | TED.com
John Gable - Technologist, activist
John Gable is the founder and CEO of AllSides.com, which builds better understanding across divides.

Why you should listen

John Gable offers a unique combination of technology and politics. He started in tech 24 years ago by joining the original Microsoft Office team, then became the PM team lead for Netscape Navigator. He also led ZoneAlarm at Check Point Software, and cofounded and sold Kavi Corp. Gable was previously a Republican operative, working for three Senate majority leaders (Howard Baker, Trent Lott, Mitch McConnell), the Republican National Committee and George H.W. Bush.

Now Gable and his multi-partisan AllSides.com team use technology to present news and issues from many angles to allow people to make up their own minds. Their mission: "free people from filter bubbles so they can better understand the world and each other."

More profile about the speaker
John Gable | Speaker | TED.com