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TEDGlobal 2011

Pavan Sukhdev: Put a value on nature!

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Every day, we use materials from the earth without thinking, for free. But what if we had to pay for their true value: would it make us more careful about what we use and what we waste? Think of Pavan Sukhdev as nature's banker -- assessing the value of the Earth's assets. Eye-opening charts will make you think differently about the cost of air, water, trees ...

- Environmental economist
A banker by training, Pavan Sukhdev runs the numbers on greening up -- showing that green economies are an effective engine for creating jobs and creating wealth. Full bio

I'm here to talk to you
00:15
about the economic invisibility of nature.
00:17
The bad news
00:19
is that mother nature's back office isn't working yet,
00:21
so those invoices don't get issued.
00:23
But we need to do something about this problem.
00:25
I began my life as a markets professional
00:28
and continued to take an interest,
00:31
but most of my recent effort
00:34
has been looking at the value
00:36
of what comes to human beings from nature,
00:38
and which doesn't get priced by the markets.
00:40
A project called TEEB was started in 2007,
00:43
and it was launched by a group of environment ministers
00:46
of the G8+5.
00:49
And their basic inspiration
00:51
was a stern review of Lord Stern.
00:53
They asked themselves a question:
00:55
If economics could make such a convincing case
00:57
for early action on climate change,
00:59
well why can't the same be done for conservation?
01:01
Why can't an equivalent case be made
01:03
for nature?
01:05
And the answer is: Yeah, it can.
01:07
But it's not that straightforward.
01:09
Biodiversity, the living fabric of this planet, is not a gas.
01:11
It exists in many layers,
01:14
ecosystems, species and genes across many scales --
01:16
international, national, local, community --
01:19
and doing for nature
01:22
what Lord Stern and his team did for nature is not that easy.
01:24
And yet, we began.
01:27
We began the project with an interim report,
01:29
which quickly pulled together
01:31
a lot of information that had been collected on the subject
01:33
by many, many researchers.
01:36
And amongst our compiled results
01:38
was the startling revelation
01:40
that, in fact, we were losing natural capital --
01:42
the benefits that flow from nature to us.
01:45
We were losing it at an extraordinary rate --
01:47
in fact, of the order of two to four trillion dollars-worth
01:49
of natural capital.
01:52
This came out in 2008,
01:55
which was, of course, around the time that the banking crisis had shown
01:57
that we had lost financial capital
01:59
of the order of two and a half trillion dollars.
02:01
So this was comparable in size to that kind of loss.
02:03
We then have gone on since
02:06
to present for [the] international community,
02:08
for governments,
02:11
for local governments and for business
02:13
and for people, for you and me,
02:15
a whole slew of reports, which were presented at the U.N. last year,
02:17
which address the economic invisibility of nature
02:20
and describe what can be done to solve it.
02:23
What is this about?
02:25
A picture that you're familiar with --
02:27
the Amazon rainforests.
02:29
It's a massive store of carbon, it's an amazing store of biodiversity,
02:31
but what people don't really know
02:34
is this also is a rain factory.
02:36
Because the northeastern trade winds,
02:38
as they go over the Amazonas,
02:40
effectively gather the water vapor.
02:42
Something like 20 billion tons per day of water vapor
02:44
is sucked up by the northeastern trade winds,
02:47
and eventually precipitates in the form of rain
02:50
across the La Plata Basin.
02:53
This rainfall cycle, this rainfall factory,
02:55
effectively feeds an agricultural economy
02:58
of the order of 240 billion dollars-worth
03:00
in Latin America.
03:02
But the question arises: Okay, so how much
03:04
do Uruguay, Paraguay, Argentina
03:07
and indeed the state of Mato Grosso in Brazil
03:09
pay for that vital input to that economy
03:12
to the state of Amazonas, which produces that rainfall?
03:15
And the answer is zilch,
03:18
exactly zero.
03:20
That's the economic invisibility of nature.
03:22
That can't keep going on,
03:24
because economic incentives and disincentives are very powerful.
03:26
Economics has become the currency of policy.
03:29
And unless we address
03:31
this invisibility,
03:33
we are going to get the results that we are seeing,
03:35
which is a gradual degradation and loss
03:37
of this valuable natural asset.
03:40
It's not just about the Amazonas, or indeed about rainforests.
03:42
No matter what level you look at,
03:45
whether it's at the ecosystem level or at the species level or at the genetic level,
03:47
we see the same problem again and again.
03:50
So rainfall cycle and water regulation by rainforests
03:53
at an ecosystem level.
03:56
At the species level,
03:58
it's been estimated that insect-based pollination,
04:00
bees pollinating fruit and so on,
04:02
is something like 190 billion dollars-worth.
04:05
That's something like eight percent
04:08
of the total agricultural output globally.
04:10
It completely passes below the radar screen.
04:14
But when did a bee actually ever give you an invoice?
04:16
Or for that matter, if you look at the genetic level,
04:19
60 percent of medicines were prospected,
04:22
were found first as molecules in a rainforest or a reef.
04:25
Once again, most of that doesn't get paid.
04:28
And that brings me to another aspect of this,
04:30
which is, to whom should this get paid?
04:32
That genetic material
04:35
probably belonged, if it could belong to anyone,
04:37
to a local community of poor people
04:39
who parted with the knowledge that helped the researchers to find the molecule,
04:41
which then became the medicine.
04:44
They were the ones that didn't get paid.
04:46
And if you look at the species level,
04:48
you saw about fish.
04:51
Today, the depletion of ocean fisheries is so significant
04:53
that effectively it is effecting the ability of the poor,
04:56
the artisanal fisher folk
05:00
and those who fish for their own livelihoods,
05:02
to feed their families.
05:04
Something like a billion people depend on fish,
05:06
the quantity of fish in the oceans.
05:08
A billion people depend on fish
05:10
for their main source for animal protein.
05:13
And at this rate at which we are losing fish,
05:15
it is a human problem of enormous dimensions,
05:17
a health problem
05:19
of a kind we haven't seen before.
05:21
And finally, at the ecosystem level,
05:24
whether it's flood prevention or drought control provided by the forests,
05:26
or whether it is the ability of poor farmers
05:29
to go out and gather leaf litter
05:31
for their cattle and goats,
05:33
or whether it's the ability of their wives
05:35
to go and collect fuel wood from the forest,
05:37
it is actually the poor
05:39
who depend most on these ecosystem services.
05:41
We did estimates in our study
05:43
that for countries like Brazil, India and Indonesia,
05:45
even though ecosystem services --
05:48
these benefits that flow from nature to humanity for free --
05:50
they're not very big in percentage terms of GDP --
05:53
two, four, eight, 10, 15 percent --
05:55
but in these countries, if we measure how much they're worth to the poor,
05:57
the answers are more like
06:00
45 percent, 75 percent, 90 percent.
06:02
That's the difference.
06:05
Because these are important benefits for the poor.
06:07
And you can't really have a proper model for development
06:10
if at the same time you're destroying or allowing
06:13
the degradation of the very asset, the most important asset,
06:16
which is your development asset,
06:19
that is ecological infrastructure.
06:21
How bad can things get?
06:23
Well here a picture of something called the mean species abundance.
06:25
It's basically a measure
06:28
of how many tigers, toads, ticks or whatever on average
06:30
of biomass of various species are around.
06:32
The green represents the percentage.
06:35
If you start green, it's like 80 to 100 percent.
06:37
If it's yellow, it's 40 to 60 percent.
06:40
And these are percentages versus the original state, so to speak,
06:42
the pre-industrial era, 1750.
06:44
Now I'm going to show you
06:47
how business as usual will affect this.
06:49
And just watch the change in colors
06:51
in India, China, Europe,
06:53
sub-Saharan Africa
06:55
as we move on and consume global biomass
06:57
at a rate which is actually not going to be able to sustain us.
07:00
See that again.
07:04
The only places that remain green -- and that's not good news --
07:06
is, in fact, places like the Gobi Desert,
07:08
like the tundra and like the Sahara.
07:11
But that doesn't help because there were very few species
07:13
and volume of biomass there in the first place.
07:15
This is the challenge.
07:17
The reason this is happening
07:19
boils down, in my mind, to one basic problem,
07:22
which is our inability to perceive the difference
07:25
between public benefits
07:27
and private profits.
07:29
We tend to constantly ignore public wealth
07:31
simply because it is in the common wealth,
07:34
it's common goods.
07:36
And here's an example from Thailand
07:38
where we found that, because the value of a mangrove is not that much --
07:40
it's about $600 over the life of nine years that this has been measured --
07:44
compared to its value as a shrimp farm,
07:48
which is more like $9,600,
07:50
there has been a gradual trend to deplete the mangroves
07:52
and convert them to shrimp farms.
07:55
But of course, if you look at exactly what those profits are,
07:57
almost 8,000 of those dollars
08:01
are, in fact, subsidies.
08:03
So you compare the two sides of the coin
08:05
and you find that it's more like 1,200 to 600.
08:08
That's not that hard.
08:10
But on the other hand, if you start measuring,
08:12
how much would it actually cost
08:14
to restore the land of the shrimp farm
08:16
back to productive use?
08:18
Once salt deposition and chemical deposition
08:20
has had its effects,
08:22
that answer is more like $12,000 of cost.
08:24
And if you see the benefits of the mangrove
08:27
in terms of the storm protection and cyclone protection that you get
08:29
and in terms of the fisheries, the fish nurseries,
08:32
that provide fish for the poor,
08:34
that answer is more like $11,000.
08:36
So now look at the different lens.
08:38
If you look at the lens of public wealth
08:40
as against the lens of private profits,
08:42
you get a completely different answer,
08:44
which is clearly conservation makes more sense,
08:46
and not destruction.
08:49
So is this just a story from South Thailand?
08:51
Sorry, this is a global story.
08:54
And here's what the same calculation looks like,
08:56
which was done recently -- well I say recently, over the last 10 years --
08:58
by a group called TRUCOST.
09:01
And they calculated for the top 3,000 corporations,
09:03
what are the externalities?
09:05
In other words, what are the costs of doing business as usual?
09:07
This is not illegal stuff, this is basically business as usual,
09:09
which causes climate-changing emissions, which have an economic cost.
09:12
It causes pollutants being issued, which have an economic cost,
09:15
health cost and so on.
09:18
Use of freshwater.
09:20
If you drill water to make coke near a village farm,
09:22
that's not illegal, but yes, it costs the community.
09:24
Can we stop this, and how?
09:26
I think the first point to make is that we need to recognize natural capital.
09:28
Basically the stuff of life is natural capital,
09:31
and we need to recognize and build that into our systems.
09:34
When we measure GDP
09:37
as a measure of economic performance at the national level,
09:39
we don't include our biggest asset at the country level.
09:41
When we measure corporate performances,
09:44
we don't include our impacts on nature
09:46
and what our business costs society.
09:48
That has to stop.
09:50
In fact, this was what really inspired my interest in this phase.
09:52
I began a project way back called the Green Accounting Project.
09:55
That was in the early 2000s
09:57
when India was going gung-ho about GDP growth
09:59
as the means forward --
10:02
looking at China with its stellar growths of eight, nine, 10 percent
10:04
and wondering, why can we do the same?
10:06
And a few friends of mine and I
10:08
decided this doesn't make sense.
10:10
This is going to create more cost to society and more losses.
10:12
So we decided to do a massive set of calculations
10:15
and started producing green accounts for India and its states.
10:17
That's how my interests began
10:20
and went to the TEEB project.
10:22
Calculating this at the national level is one thing, and it has begun.
10:24
And the World Bank has acknowledged this
10:27
and they've started a project called WAVES --
10:29
Wealth Accounting and Valuation of Ecosystem Services.
10:31
But calculating this at the next level,
10:33
that means at the business sector level, is important.
10:35
And actually we've done this with the TEEB project.
10:37
We've done this for a very difficult case,
10:39
which was for deforestation in China.
10:42
This is important, because in China in 1997,
10:44
the Yellow River actually went dry for nine months
10:47
causing severe loss of agriculture output
10:50
and pain and loss to society.
10:52
Just a year later the Yangtze flooded,
10:54
causing something like 5,500 deaths.
10:56
So clearly there was a problem with deforestation.
10:59
It was associated largely with the construction industry.
11:01
And the Chinese government responded sensibly
11:04
and placed a ban on felling.
11:06
A retrospective on 40 years
11:08
shows that if we had accounted for these costs --
11:10
the cost of loss of topsoil,
11:14
the cost of loss of waterways,
11:16
the lost productivity, the loss to local communities
11:18
as a result of all these factors,
11:21
desertification and so on --
11:23
those costs are almost twice as much
11:25
as the market price of timber.
11:27
So in fact, the price of timber in the Beijing marketplace
11:29
ought to have been three-times what it was
11:32
had it reflected the true pain and the costs
11:34
to the society within China.
11:37
Of course, after the event one can be wise.
11:39
The way to do this is to do it on a company basis,
11:42
to take leadership forward,
11:44
and to do it for as many important sectors which have a cost,
11:46
and to disclose these answers.
11:49
Someone once asked me, "Who is better or worse,
11:51
is it Unilever or is it P&G
11:53
when it comes to their impact on rainforests in Indonesia?"
11:55
And I couldn't answer because neither of these companies,
11:58
good though they are and professional though they are,
12:00
do not calculate or disclose their externalities.
12:02
But if we look at companies like PUMA --
12:05
Jochen Zeitz, their CEO and chairman,
12:07
once challenged me at a function,
12:09
saying that he's going to implement my project before I finish it.
12:11
Well I think we kind of did it at the same time, but he's done it.
12:14
He's basically worked the cost to PUMA.
12:17
PUMA has 2.7 billion dollars of turnover,
12:19
300 million dollars of profits,
12:21
200 million dollars after tax,
12:23
94 million dollars of externalities, cost to business.
12:25
Now that's not a happy situation for them,
12:28
but they have the confidence and the courage
12:30
to come forward and say, "Here's what we are measuring.
12:32
We are measuring it because we know
12:35
that you cannot manage what you do not measure."
12:37
That's an example, I think, for us to look at
12:39
and for us to draw comfort from.
12:41
If more companies did this,
12:43
and if more sectors engaged this as sectors,
12:45
you could have analysts, business analysts,
12:47
and you could have people like us and consumers and NGOs
12:49
actually look and compare the social performance of companies.
12:52
Today we can't yet do that, but I think the path is laid out.
12:55
This can be done.
12:58
And I'm delighted that the Institute of Chartered Accountants in the U.K.
13:00
has already set up a coalition to do this,
13:02
an international coalition.
13:04
The other favorite, if you like, solution for me
13:06
is the creation of green carbon markets.
13:09
And by the way, these are my favorites --
13:11
externalities calculation and green carbon markets.
13:13
TEEB has more than a dozen separate groups of solutions
13:15
including protected area evaluation
13:19
and payments for ecosystem services
13:21
and eco-certification and you name it, but these are the favorites.
13:23
What's green carbon?
13:26
Today what we have is basically a brown carbon marketplace.
13:28
It's about energy emissions.
13:30
The European Union ETS is the main marketplace.
13:32
It's not doing too well. We've over-issued.
13:34
A bit like inflation: you over-issue currency,
13:36
you get what you see, declining prices.
13:38
But that's all about energy and industry.
13:41
But what we're missing is also some other emissions
13:44
like black carbon, that is soot.
13:46
What we're also missing is blue carbon,
13:48
which, by the way, is the largest store of carbon --
13:50
more than 55 percent.
13:52
Thankfully, the flux, in other words, the flow of emissions
13:54
from the ocean to the atmosphere and vice versa,
13:56
is more or less balanced.
13:58
In fact, what's being absorbed
14:00
is something like 25 percent of our emissions,
14:02
which then leads to acidification
14:05
or lower alkalinity in oceans.
14:07
More of that in a minute.
14:09
And finally, there's deforestation,
14:11
and there's emission of methane
14:13
from agriculture.
14:15
Green carbon,
14:17
which is the deforestation and agricultural emissions,
14:19
and blue carbon
14:21
together comprise 25 percent of our emissions.
14:23
We have the means already in our hands,
14:25
through a structure, through a mechanism, called REDD Plus --
14:27
a scheme for the reduced emissions
14:29
from deforestation and forest degradation.
14:31
And already Norway has contributed a billion dollars each
14:34
towards Indonesia and Brazil
14:37
to implement this Red Plus scheme.
14:39
So we actually have some movement forward.
14:41
But the thing is to do a lot more of that.
14:43
Will this solve the problem? Will economics solve everything?
14:45
Well I'm afraid not.
14:48
There is an area that is the oceans, coral reefs.
14:50
As you can see,
14:53
they cut across the entire globe
14:55
all the way from Micronesia
14:57
across Indonesia, Malaysia, India, Madagascar
14:59
and to the West of the Caribbean.
15:02
These red dots, these red areas,
15:04
basically provide the food and livelihood
15:06
for more than half a billion people.
15:08
So that's almost an eighth of society.
15:10
And the sad thing is that, as these coral reefs are lost --
15:13
and scientists tell us
15:16
that any level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere above 350 parts per million
15:18
is too dangerous for the survival of these reefs --
15:21
we are not only risking the extinction
15:24
of the entire coral species, the warm water corals,
15:26
we're not only risking a fourth of all fish species which are in the oceans,
15:28
but we are risking the very lives and livelihoods
15:32
of more than 500 million people
15:34
who live in the developing world in poor countries.
15:37
So in selecting targets of 450 parts per million
15:40
and selecting two degrees at the climate negotiations,
15:43
what we have done is we've made an ethical choice.
15:46
We've actually kind of made an ethical choice in society
15:49
to not have coral reefs.
15:52
Well what I will say to you in parting
15:54
is that we may have done that.
15:56
Let's think about it and what it means,
15:58
but please, let's not do more of that.
16:00
Because mother nature only has that much
16:02
in ecological infrastructure and that much natural capital.
16:04
I don't think we can afford too much of such ethical choices.
16:07
Thank you.
16:10
(Applause)
16:12

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About the speaker:

Pavan Sukhdev - Environmental economist
A banker by training, Pavan Sukhdev runs the numbers on greening up -- showing that green economies are an effective engine for creating jobs and creating wealth.

Why you should listen

In 2008, Sukhdev took a sabbatical from Deutsche Bank, where he'd worked for fifteen years, to write up two massive and convincing reports on the green economy. For UNEP, his “Green Economy Report” synthesized years of research to show, with real numbers, that environmentally sound development is not a bar to growth but rather a new engine for growing wealth and creating employment in the face of persistent poverty. The groundbreaking TEEB (formally “The Economics of Ecosystems and Biodiversity”) report counts the global economic benefits of biodiversity. It encourages countries to develop and publish “Natural capital accounts” tracking the value of plants, animal, water and other “natural wealth” alongside traditional financial measures in the hope of changing how decisions are made. In his book, Corporation 2020, he envisions tomorrow’s corporations as agents of an inclusive, green economy. He is now the CEO of Gist Advisory, a sustainability consulting firm.

More profile about the speaker
Pavan Sukhdev | Speaker | TED.com