TED Salon Samsung
Finn Lützow-Holm Myrstad: How tech companies deceive you into giving up your data and privacy
芬恩 · 迈尔斯塔德: 科技公司如何欺骗你放弃数据和隐私
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你真的读过你使用的应用程序的条款和条件吗？芬恩 · 迈尔斯塔德（Finn Myrstad）和他的团队在挪威消费者委员会（Norwegian Consumer Council）工作，他们花了将近一天半的时间来阅读一台普通手机上所有应用程序的条款。在谈到科技公司欺骗用户的惊人方式时，迈尔斯塔德分享了关于你同意让公司收集的个人信息的见解，以及他们如何以你无法想象的规模使用你的数据。
Finn Lützow-Holm Myrstad - Information security researcher
Finn Lützow-Holm Myrstad leads the development of better, more ethical digital policies and standards at the Norwegian Consumer Council. Full bio
Finn Lützow-Holm Myrstad leads the development of better, more ethical digital policies and standards at the Norwegian Consumer Council. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Do you remember when you were a child,
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你还记得童年时期，
你可能有一个钟爱的玩具与你形影不离，
00:15
you probably had a favorite toy
that was a constant companion,
that was a constant companion,
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就像克里斯多夫 · 罗宾有小熊维尼一样，
00:19
like Christopher Robin
had Winnie the Pooh,
had Winnie the Pooh,
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以及你那充满无尽冒险的想象力吗？
00:21
and your imagination
fueled endless adventures?
fueled endless adventures?
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00:25
What could be more innocent than that?
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还有什么比这个更天真的呢？
00:28
Well, let me introduce you
to my friend Cayla.
to my friend Cayla.
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让我向你们介绍我的朋友凯拉。
00:34
Cayla was voted toy of the year
in countries around the world.
in countries around the world.
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凯拉是全球各个国家投票选出的年度玩具。
00:38
She connects to the internet
and uses speech recognition technology
and uses speech recognition technology
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她能与互联网连接并使用语音识别技术
00:41
to answer your child's questions,
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来回答孩子们的问题，
00:43
respond just like a friend.
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就像一个朋友一样。
00:46
But the power doesn't lie
with your child's imagination.
with your child's imagination.
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但权力并不在你孩子的想象力中。
00:50
It actually lies with the company
harvesting masses of personal information
harvesting masses of personal information
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它其实在于公司所收集的
海量个人信息上，
海量个人信息上，
00:55
while your family is innocently
chatting away in the safety of their home,
chatting away in the safety of their home,
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你的家人在安全的家中闲聊时，
01:00
a dangerously false sense of security.
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这其实是一种对于安全感的危险错觉。
01:04
This case sounded alarm bells for me,
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这个案子给我敲响了警钟，
01:07
as it is my job to protect
consumers' rights in my country.
consumers' rights in my country.
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因为我的工作是保护
我们国家消费者的权益。
我们国家消费者的权益。
01:11
And with billions of devices such as cars,
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随着到2020年，数十亿诸如
01:15
energy meters and even vacuum cleaners
expected to come online by 2020,
expected to come online by 2020,
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汽车，能源仪表，甚至吸尘器
那样的设备投入使用，
那样的设备投入使用，
01:20
we thought this was a case
worth investigating further.
worth investigating further.
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我们认为这个案例值得深入调查。
我们很好奇，凯拉用她所学到的
01:24
Because what was Cayla doing
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01:26
with all the interesting things
she was learning?
she was learning?
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所有有趣的东西，到底做了些什么呢？
她有没有另一个忠实的朋友，
分享她的信息？
分享她的信息？
01:28
Did she have another friend she was
loyal to and shared her information with?
loyal to and shared her information with?
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01:33
Yes, you guessed right. She did.
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是的，你猜对了，她有的。
要跟凯拉玩耍，
01:36
In order to play with Cayla,
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你需要下载一个APP
来获取她所有的功能。
来获取她所有的功能。
01:38
you need to download an app
to access all her features.
to access all her features.
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01:42
Parents must consent to the terms
being changed without notice.
being changed without notice.
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家长必须同意更改条款而毋须另行通知。
01:47
The recordings of the child,
her friends and family,
her friends and family,
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孩子们，她的好友和家人的录音，
01:51
can be used for targeted advertising.
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可以被用于定向广告。
01:54
And all this information can be shared
with unnamed third parties.
with unnamed third parties.
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并且所有这些信息都可以
与未具名的第三方分享。
与未具名的第三方分享。
01:59
Enough? Not quite.
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就这些了？其实还不止。
02:02
Anyone with a smartphone
can connect to Cayla
can connect to Cayla
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任何有智能手机的人在一定的距离内
02:07
within a certain distance.
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都可以连接到凯拉。
02:09
When we confronted the company
that made and programmed Cayla,
that made and programmed Cayla,
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当我们与制造和开发凯拉的公司对峙时，
他们发表了一系列的声明称
02:14
they issued a series of statements
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02:16
that one had to be an IT expert
in order to breach the security.
in order to breach the security.
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只有IT专家才能破坏其安全性。
02:22
Shall we fact-check that statement
and live hack Cayla together?
and live hack Cayla together?
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我们要不要一起核实一下这份声明，
直播一下如何“劫持”凯拉？
直播一下如何“劫持”凯拉？
02:29
Here she is.
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这就是她。
02:32
Cayla is equipped with a Bluetooth device
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凯拉装备有蓝牙设备，
传输距离可以达到60英尺，
02:35
which can transmit up to 60 feet,
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02:37
a bit less if there's a wall between.
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如果有墙阻挡就少点。
这意味着，我或任何陌生人
02:40
That means I, or any stranger,
can connect to the doll
can connect to the doll
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02:45
while being outside the room
where Cayla and her friends are.
where Cayla and her friends are.
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在凯拉和她朋友的
家门口就能连接上她。
家门口就能连接上她。
为了演示这个过程，
02:49
And to illustrate this,
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我现在把凯拉开机。
02:51
I'm going to turn Cayla on now.
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02:53
Let's see, one, two, three.
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让我们看看，1，2，3.
02:57
There. She's on. And I asked a colleague
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好了，她开机了，我之前让一位同事
拿着他的智能手机站在门外，
02:59
to stand outside with his smartphone,
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现在他连上了，
03:01
and he's connected,
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03:03
and to make this a bit creepier ...
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为了加点恐怖的气氛…
03:05
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:09
let's see what kids could hear Cayla say
in the safety of their room.
in the safety of their room.
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让我们看看孩子们会在他们安全的
家中听到凯拉说什么。
家中听到凯拉说什么。
03:15
Man: Hi. My name is Cayla. What is yours?
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男：嗨，我叫凯拉，你的名字呢？
03:18
Finn Myrstad: Uh, Finn.
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芬恩：芬恩。
03:20
Man: Is your mom close by?
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男：你妈妈在旁边吗？
03:22
FM: Uh, no, she's in the store.
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芬恩：不在，她在店里。
03:24
Man: Ah. Do you want
to come out and play with me?
to come out and play with me?
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男：啊，你想出来跟我一起玩耍吗？
03:27
FM: That's a great idea.
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芬恩：真是好主意呀。
03:29
Man: Ah, great.
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男：好呀。
03:32
FM: I'm going to turn Cayla off now.
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芬恩：我现在要关掉凯拉了。
03:34
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:39
We needed no password
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我们无须任何密码
03:41
or to circumvent any other
type of security to do this.
type of security to do this.
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或规避任何其他安全措施就可以做到。
03:46
We published a report
in 20 countries around the world,
in 20 countries around the world,
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我们在全球20个国家发布了一份报告，
03:50
exposing this significant security flaw
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曝光了这种明显的安全漏洞
03:53
and many other problematic issues.
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和很多其他问题。
03:56
So what happened?
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后来怎么样了呢？
03:57
Cayla was banned in Germany,
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凯拉在德国被禁止出售，
04:00
taken off the shelves
by Amazon and Wal-Mart,
by Amazon and Wal-Mart,
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被亚马逊和沃尔玛下架，
04:03
and she's now peacefully resting
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现在她正平静地呆在
柏林的德国间谍博物馆。
04:06
at the German Spy Museum in Berlin.
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04:10
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:13
However, Cayla was also for sale
in stores around the world
in stores around the world
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然而，在我们报告发布前，凯拉已经在
04:17
for more than a year
after we published our report.
after we published our report.
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全球各地的商店出售超过一年。
04:21
What we uncovered is that
there are few rules to protect us
there are few rules to protect us
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我们所揭示的是，
很少有规则能够保护我们，
很少有规则能够保护我们，
并且有的规则往往也
得不到很好的执行。
得不到很好的执行。
04:25
and the ones we have
are not being properly enforced.
are not being properly enforced.
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04:30
We need to get the security
and privacy of these devices right
and privacy of these devices right
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在它们进入市场时，我们需要让
这些设备具备可靠的安全和隐私功能，
04:33
before they enter the market,
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04:36
because what is the point
of locking a house with a key
of locking a house with a key
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因为如果任何人都可以
通过一个联网设备进来，
通过一个联网设备进来，
用钥匙锁门的意义又何在？
04:40
if anyone can enter it
through a connected device?
through a connected device?
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04:45
You may well think,
"This will not happen to me.
"This will not happen to me.
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你可能会觉得，“这没发生在我身上。
04:48
I will just stay away
from these flawed devices."
from these flawed devices."
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我只需要远离这些有缺陷的设备就好。”
04:52
But that won't keep you safe,
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但这无法保证你的安全，
04:54
because simply by
connecting to the internet,
connecting to the internet,
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因为只是通过连接上互联网，
04:57
you are put in an impossible
take-it-or-leave-it position.
take-it-or-leave-it position.
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你就不可避免地被置于
要么接受，要么走人的境地。
要么接受，要么走人的境地。
给大家看看。
05:02
Let me show you.
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05:04
Like most of you,
I have dozens of apps on my phone,
I have dozens of apps on my phone,
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像很多人一样，我手机上有几十个应用，
05:07
and used properly,
they can make our lives easier,
they can make our lives easier,
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使用得当，它们可以让我们生活更轻松，
05:10
more convenient and maybe even healthier.
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更便捷，甚至可能更健康。
05:13
But have we been lulled
into a false sense of security?
into a false sense of security?
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但我们是否被一种
虚假的安全感蒙蔽了呢？
虚假的安全感蒙蔽了呢？
05:18
It starts simply by ticking a box.
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它开始于简单勾选一个方框开始。
05:21
Yes, we say,
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是的，我们会说，
我已经阅读过这些条款。
05:23
I've read the terms.
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05:27
But have you really read the terms?
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但你真的阅读了这些条款吗？
05:31
Are you sure they didn't look too long
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你确定它们不是看起来太长，
你的手机快没电了，
05:33
and your phone was running out of battery,
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你最后一次尝试时，
它们非常晦涩难懂，
它们非常晦涩难懂，
05:35
and the last time you tried
they were impossible to understand,
they were impossible to understand,
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05:38
and you needed to use the service now?
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而且你需要立刻使用这个服务？
05:41
And now, the power
imbalance is established,
imbalance is established,
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目前，权力的不平衡已经建立，
05:45
because we have agreed
to our personal information
to our personal information
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因为我们同意让对方
收集我们的个人信息，
收集我们的个人信息，
05:49
being gathered and used
on a scale we could never imagine.
on a scale we could never imagine.
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并用于我们无法想象的规模层面。
05:53
This is why my colleagues and I
decided to take a deeper look at this.
decided to take a deeper look at this.
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这就是我和同事们决定去
深入研究这个问题的原因。
深入研究这个问题的原因。
05:57
We set out to read the terms
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我们开始阅读
一台普通手机上热门应用的条款。
06:00
of popular apps on an average phone.
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06:03
And to show the world
how unrealistic it is
how unrealistic it is
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并且向世界展示，让消费者去阅读
06:07
to expect consumers
to actually read the terms,
to actually read the terms,
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这些条款是多么的不切实际，
06:10
we printed them,
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我们把这些条款打印出来，
06:11
more than 900 pages,
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总长度超过了900页纸，
06:14
and sat down in our office
and read them out loud ourselves,
and read them out loud ourselves,
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然后坐在办公室里大声朗读，
06:19
streaming the experiment
live on our websites.
live on our websites.
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并在我们的网站上直播这个实验。
06:22
As you can see, it took quite a long time.
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很显然，需要花很长的时间。
06:24
It took us 31 hours,
49 minutes and 11 seconds
49 minutes and 11 seconds
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我们花了31个小时，49分钟11秒
06:29
to read the terms on an average phone.
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才阅读完一台普通手机上的条款。
06:31
That is longer than a movie marathon
of the "Harry Potter" movies
of the "Harry Potter" movies
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这比《哈利波特》和《教父》
06:36
and the "Godfather" movies combined.
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系列电影加起来还长。
06:38
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
06:41
And reading is one thing.
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阅读是一回事，
06:43
Understanding is another story.
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理解则是另外一码事。
06:45
That would have taken us
much, much longer.
much, much longer.
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这会需要我们更多更多的时间。
06:49
And this is a real problem,
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这是一个切实存在的问题，
06:50
because companies have argued
for 20 to 30 years
for 20 to 30 years
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因为这些公司争执了20-30年，
反对更好地监管互联网，
06:54
against regulating the internet better,
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06:57
because users have consented
to the terms and conditions.
to the terms and conditions.
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因为用户已经同意了这些条款和条件。
07:02
As we've shown with this experiment,
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正如我们在这个实验中展示的，
07:04
achieving informed consent
is close to impossible.
is close to impossible.
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获得知情同意几乎是不可能的。
07:09
Do you think it's fair to put the burden
of responsibility on the consumer?
of responsibility on the consumer?
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你认为让消费者承担责任是公平的吗？
07:14
I don't.
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我不认同。
我认为我们应该要求减少
要么接受要么放弃，
要么接受要么放弃，
07:15
I think we should demand
less take-it-or-leave-it
less take-it-or-leave-it
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07:18
and more understandable terms
before we agree to them.
before we agree to them.
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在我们同意前给出更多可理解的条款。
（鼓掌）
07:22
(Applause)
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07:23
Thank you.
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谢谢。
07:28
Now, I would like to tell you
a story about love.
a story about love.
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现在我想讲一个关于爱的故事。
07:34
Some of the world's
most popular apps are dating apps,
most popular apps are dating apps,
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一些世界上最流行的应用是相亲应用，
这个行业现在价值超过
或接近，一年30亿美元。
或接近，一年30亿美元。
07:37
an industry now worth more than,
or close to, three billion dollars a year.
or close to, three billion dollars a year.
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07:43
And of course, we're OK
sharing our intimate details
sharing our intimate details
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当然，我们可以与另一半
07:47
with our other half.
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分享我们的私密细节。
07:49
But who else is snooping,
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但当我们在坦白灵魂时，
07:51
saving and sharing our information
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还有谁在窥探，保存和
07:54
while we are baring our souls?
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分享我们的信息呢？
07:56
My team and I decided to investigate this.
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我和团队打算对此展开调查。
08:00
And in order to understand
the issue from all angles
the issue from all angles
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为了从各个角度了解这个问题
08:03
and to truly do a thorough job,
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并认真做好工作，
08:07
I realized I had to download
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我意识到我得亲自下载
08:09
one of the world's
most popular dating apps myself.
most popular dating apps myself.
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一款世界上最流行的相亲软件。
08:14
So I went home to my wife ...
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所以我回家问我老婆…
08:16
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
08:18
who I had just married.
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我们刚结婚不久。
08:20
"Is it OK if I establish a profile
on a very popular dating app
on a very popular dating app
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“纯粹为了科学研究，我可以在
一个非常流行的相亲软件上
一个非常流行的相亲软件上
08:25
for purely scientific purposes?"
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建立个人档案吗？”
08:26
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
于是我们发现了这个。
08:28
This is what we found.
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08:30
Hidden behind the main menu
was a preticked box
was a preticked box
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隐藏在主菜单后面的
是一个预先标记好的格子，
是一个预先标记好的格子，
08:34
that gave the dating company access
to all my personal pictures on Facebook,
to all my personal pictures on Facebook,
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让这个相亲公司可以获取
我在Facebook上的所有个人照片，
我在Facebook上的所有个人照片，
08:40
in my case more than 2,000 of them,
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我个人有超过2千张照片，
08:43
and some were quite personal.
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其中有些相当私密。
08:46
And to make matters worse,
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并且更糟糕的是，
08:48
when we read the terms and conditions,
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当我阅读条款时，
08:50
we discovered the following,
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我们发现了下面的内容，
08:52
and I'm going to need to take out
my reading glasses for this one.
my reading glasses for this one.
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我需要掏出老花镜才能看清。
08:56
And I'm going to read it for you,
because this is complicated.
because this is complicated.
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我打算给大家阅读一下，因为太复杂了。
08:59
All right.
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好的。
09:01
"By posting content" --
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“发布内容”——
09:03
and content refers to your pictures, chat
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内容指你的照片，聊天记录
09:05
and other interactions
in the dating service --
in the dating service --
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和其他在相亲服务上的互动——
“作为服务的一部分，
09:07
"as a part of the service,
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09:08
you automatically grant to the company,
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你自动授予公司，
09:10
its affiliates, licensees and successors
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及其关联方，被许可方或继任公司
09:12
an irrevocable" -- which means
you can't change your mind --
you can't change your mind --
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不可撤销，”——意思是你不能改变主意——
09:16
"perpetual" -- which means forever --
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“永久的”——意思是永远——
09:19
"nonexclusive, transferrable,
sublicensable, fully paid-up,
sublicensable, fully paid-up,
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“非排他、可转让、可附带许可、完全付费、
在全球范围内的使用、复制、存储、执行、
09:22
worldwide right and license
to use, copy, store, perform,
to use, copy, store, perform,
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09:24
display, reproduce, record,
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显示、复制、录制、
播放、改编、修改和分发内容
09:26
play, adapt, modify
and distribute the content,
and distribute the content,
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以及内容的派生作品的权利和许可，
09:28
prepare derivative works of the content,
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或将内容合并到其他作品中，
09:30
or incorporate the content
into other works
into other works
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09:32
and grant and authorize sublicenses
of the foregoing in any media
of the foregoing in any media
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并在任何已知或以后创建的媒体中授予
和授权上述转授许可。”
09:35
now known or hereafter created."
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09:40
That basically means
that all your dating history
that all your dating history
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这基本上意味着你所有的相亲历史
09:44
and everything related to it
can be used for any purpose for all time.
can be used for any purpose for all time.
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以及任何与之有关的一切东西
可以一直被用于任何目的。
可以一直被用于任何目的。
09:50
Just imagine your children
seeing your sassy dating photos
seeing your sassy dating photos
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想象一下，你的孩子
在20年后的节育广告中
在20年后的节育广告中
09:55
in a birth control ad 20 years from now.
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会看到你时髦的约会照。
10:00
But seriously, though --
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但说真的——
10:01
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
10:04
what might these commercial
practices mean to you?
practices mean to you?
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这些商业惯例对你意味着什么？
10:08
For example, financial loss:
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比如，财务损失：
10:11
based on your web browsing history,
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基于你的网站浏览历史，
10:13
algorithms might decide
whether you will get a mortgage or not.
whether you will get a mortgage or not.
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算法可能决定你能否该获得贷款。
10:16
Subconscious manipulation:
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潜意识操纵：
10:19
companies can analyze your emotions
based on your photos and chats,
based on your photos and chats,
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公司可以通过你的照片
和聊天分析你的情绪，
和聊天分析你的情绪，
10:23
targeting you with ads
when you are at your most vulnerable.
when you are at your most vulnerable.
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在你最脆弱时投放针对你的定向广告。
10:26
Discrimination:
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歧视：
10:28
a fitness app can sell your data
to a health insurance company,
to a health insurance company,
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健身应用可以把你的
数据卖给健康保险公司，
数据卖给健康保险公司，
10:31
preventing you from getting
coverage in the future.
coverage in the future.
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让你将来获得保险困难重重。
所有这一切都发生在今天的世界中。
10:34
All of this is happening
in the world today.
in the world today.
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10:37
But of course, not all uses
of data are malign.
of data are malign.
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但当然，并非所有的
数据使用都是有害的。
数据使用都是有害的。
有些只是缺陷，或者需要更多的工作，
10:41
Some are just flawed or need more work,
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有些则真的很棒。
10:43
and some are truly great.
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10:47
And there is some good news as well.
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这里也有一些好消息。
10:51
The dating companies
changed their policies globally
changed their policies globally
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在我们提出诉讼后，这个交友公司
10:54
after we filed a legal complaint.
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改变了他们的全球政策。
10:57
But organizations such as mine
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但像我们这样
11:00
that fight for consumers' rights
can't be everywhere.
can't be everywhere.
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为消费者权益斗争的
组织不是到处都有。
组织不是到处都有。
11:03
Nor can consumers fix this on their own,
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消费者也无法独自修复这个问题，
11:06
because if we know
that something innocent we said
that something innocent we said
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因为假如我们知道
我们的一些无心之言
我们的一些无心之言
11:09
will come back to haunt us,
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会反过来困扰我们，
11:11
we will stop speaking.
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我们就会停止发声。
11:13
If we know that we are being
watched and monitored,
watched and monitored,
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如果我们知道自己正在被关注和监控，
11:16
we will change our behavior.
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就会改变自身的行为。
11:18
And if we can't control who has our data
and how it is being used,
and how it is being used,
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如果我们无法控制谁拥有
我们的数据，以及数据如何被使用，
我们的数据，以及数据如何被使用，
11:22
we have lost the control of our lives.
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我们就失去了对自己生活的控制。
11:26
The stories I have told you today
are not random examples.
are not random examples.
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我今天告诉你们的故事
并不是随机的案例。
并不是随机的案例。
它们无处不在，
11:29
They are everywhere,
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11:31
and they are a sign
that things need to change.
that things need to change.
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它们标志着是时候该改变现状了。
我们如何才能实现这种改变？
11:34
And how can we achieve that change?
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11:36
Well, companies need to realize
that by prioritizing privacy and security,
that by prioritizing privacy and security,
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公司需要认识到应该以隐私和安全为先，
在此基础上培养用户的信任和忠诚。
11:42
they can build trust
and loyalty to their users.
and loyalty to their users.
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11:46
Governments must create a safer internet
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政府必须通过监督执行和更新规则
去构建一个更安全的互联网。
11:49
by ensuring enforcement
and up-to-date rules.
and up-to-date rules.
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11:53
And us, the citizens?
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而我们这些公民呢？
我们可以用自己的声音
11:55
We can use our voice
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11:57
to remind the world that technology
can only truly benefit society
can only truly benefit society
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去提醒世界，科技只有
在尊重基本权利的基础上，
在尊重基本权利的基础上，
才能真正让全社会受益。
12:02
if it respects basic rights.
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12:05
Thank you so much.
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谢谢大家。
（鼓掌）
12:07
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Finn Lützow-Holm Myrstad - Information security researcherFinn Lützow-Holm Myrstad leads the development of better, more ethical digital policies and standards at the Norwegian Consumer Council.
Why you should listen
Using targeted research and global coalition building, Finn Lützow-Holm Myrstad and his team convince governments and companies to improve their policies. Myrstad is the EU Chair of the Transatlantic Consumer Dialogue's INFOSOC Committee, which gathers 75 organizations from both sides of the Atlantic. Myrstad shapes opinion through addresses to audiences such as the G20, European Parliament, SXSW, Princeton University and TED.
Some of their projects so far include privacy and security challenges posed by: internet-connected devices, user terms in apps and tech companies use of dark patterns. Myrstad informs his digital work with his business and LSE degrees as well as his previous experience in politics, energy and the private sector. In 2018 he was named amongst Politico's top influencers in the "GDPR power matrix," and in 2017 he and his team won the European Excellence Awards for best Public Affairs campaign for the work on connected toys.
Finn Lützow-Holm Myrstad | Speaker | TED.com