TEDxRiodelaPlata
Inés Hercovich: Why women stay silent after sexual assault
伊內絲賀考維奇: 為什麼女性被性侵後會保持沉默？
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為什麼被性侵的女性很少談論它？伊內絲賀考維奇說：「是因為害怕沒人會相信她們。因為她說出的遭遇，是我們無法想像、讓我們不舒服、我們未預期聽到、讓我們震驚的。」在這場感人的演說中，她帶我們了解性侵，讓我們更清楚知道這些情況，以及女性為了生存所作出的困難抉擇。（西語英文字幕）
Inés Hercovich - Sociologist, social psychologist
Inés Hercovich is a pioneer in the study of sexual violence against women. Full bio
Inés Hercovich is a pioneer in the study of sexual violence against women. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
There are about 5,000 women here today.
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今天在場約有 5,000 名女性，
00:20
Among us, 1,250 have been
or will be sexually assaulted
or will be sexually assaulted
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當中有 1,250 位曾被性侵，
或將在人生某個時間點會被性侵。
00:26
at some point in our lives.
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00:31
One in four.
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每四個人中就有一個；
00:36
Only 10 percent will report it.
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其中只有 10% 的人會舉報，
00:40
The other 90 percent
take refuge in silence --
take refuge in silence --
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其他 90% 避難在沉默中；
00:47
half of them, because the incident
involves a close family member
involves a close family member
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當中一半的人因為性侵事件
涉及到家庭的近親
涉及到家庭的近親
00:52
or someone they know,
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或是她們認識的人，
00:55
and that makes it much more difficult
to deal with and talk about.
to deal with and talk about.
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使得情況更難處理、更難以啟齒；
01:01
The other half don't talk about it
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而另一半說不出口
01:05
because they fear they won’t be believed.
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是因為害怕沒人會相信她們。
01:09
And they're right -- because we don't.
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她們的顧慮是對的，
我們的確不相信她們。
我們的確不相信她們。
01:15
Today I want to share with you
why I think we don't believe them.
why I think we don't believe them.
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今天，我和與各位分享
為什麼我們不相信她們。
為什麼我們不相信她們。
01:20
We don't believe them because when
a woman tells what happened to her,
a woman tells what happened to her,
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我們不相信，是因為當
一位女性說出她的遭遇時，
一位女性說出她的遭遇時，
01:25
she tells us things we can't imagine,
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她說出我們無法想像的事情，
讓我們不舒服的事情，
01:28
things that disturb us,
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01:30
things we don't expect to hear,
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我們未預期聽到的事情，
01:32
things that shock us.
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讓我們震驚的事情。
01:35
We expect to hear stories like this one:
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我們預期聽到這樣的故事：
01:41
"Girl raped near
the Mitre Railroad tracks.
the Mitre Railroad tracks.
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「女孩在鄰近米特勒鐵路處被強暴。
01:44
It happened at midnight
as she was on her way home.
as she was on her way home.
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事情發生在晚上，她正在回家路上。
01:48
She said that someone
attacked her from behind,
attacked her from behind,
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她說，有人從後方攻擊她，
01:52
told her not to scream, said he had a gun
and that she shouldn't move.
and that she shouldn't move.
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說他手上有槍，
叫她不許尖叫、不准動。
叫她不許尖叫、不准動。
01:56
He raped her and then fled the scene."
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他強暴了她，然後逃離現場。」
02:02
When we hear or read a story like this,
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聽到或讀到這樣的故事，
02:05
we immediately visualize it:
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我們馬上會將它視覺化：
02:10
the rapist, a depraved lower-class man.
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強暴者是個頹廢的社會低層男性。
02:15
And the victim, a young, attractive woman.
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受害者是年輕迷人的女性。
02:21
The image only lasts 10 or 20 seconds,
and it's dark and two-dimensional;
and it's dark and two-dimensional;
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這個畫面只會持續十或二十秒，
且它是黑暗、平面的；
且它是黑暗、平面的；
02:27
there's no movement, no sound;
it's as if there were no people involved.
it's as if there were no people involved.
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沒有動態、沒有聲音；
就像沒有人涉入一樣。
就像沒有人涉入一樣。
02:33
But when a woman tells her story,
it doesn't fit in 10 or 20 seconds.
it doesn't fit in 10 or 20 seconds.
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但當一個女性說出她的故事，
不會是十秒或二十秒而已。
不會是十秒或二十秒而已。
02:40
The following is the testimony
of a woman I'll call "Ana."
of a woman I'll call "Ana."
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下面是一位女子的證詞，
我用「安娜」來稱呼她。
我用「安娜」來稱呼她。
02:46
She's one of the 85 women I interviewed
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她是我所訪問的 85 位女性之一，
02:49
while conducting research
on sexual assault.
on sexual assault.
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我當時在做關於性侵的研究。
02:56
Ana told me:
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安娜告訴我：
03:01
"I had gone with the girls in the office
to the same pub we always go to.
to the same pub we always go to.
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「我和辦公室的其他女孩一起去
我們通常會去的那間酒吧。
我們通常會去的那間酒吧。
03:06
We met some guys,
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我們遇到幾個男生，
03:08
and I hooked up with this super
cool guy; we talked a lot.
cool guy; we talked a lot.
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我認識了一個超酷的男生，
我們聊了很多。
我們聊了很多。
03:13
Around 4am, I told my friends
it was time to go.
it was time to go.
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大約清晨四點，
我告訴我朋友該走了。
我告訴我朋友該走了。
03:16
They wanted to stay.
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她們想留下。
03:18
So, the guy asked me where I lived
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這個男生問我住在哪裡，
03:21
and said if it was OK with me,
he'd drive me home.
he'd drive me home.
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他說如果我許可，他願意載我回家。
03:24
I agreed, and we left.
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我說好，我們就離開了。
03:27
At a stoplight, he told me
he liked me and touched my leg.
he liked me and touched my leg.
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在等一個紅燈時，他告訴我
他喜歡我，並觸摸我的腿。
他喜歡我，並觸摸我的腿。
03:32
I don't like a guy
to approach me that way,
to approach me that way,
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我不喜歡男生用那種方式接近我，
03:35
but he had been affectionate all night.
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但他整晚都很溫柔深情。
03:38
I thought, 'I shouldn't be so paranoid.
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我心想用不著那麼多疑。
如果我說了什麼，
卻發現他的意圖不是我想的，
卻發現他的意圖不是我想的，
03:41
What if I say something but he
didn't mean anything by it,
didn't mean anything by it,
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03:44
and I offend him?'
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結果冒犯了他怎麼辦？
03:46
When he should have made a turn,
he kept going straight.
he kept going straight.
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當他該轉彎的時候卻繼續直行，
03:49
I thought he had made
a mistake, and I said,
a mistake, and I said,
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我想是他錯過了。
03:51
'You should have turned there.'
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我說：「你剛剛那邊應該轉彎。」
03:54
But something felt off.
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但感覺有點不太對勁。
03:57
Thinking back, I wonder,
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現在回想，我納悶：
03:58
'Why didn't I pay attention
to what I was feeling?'
to what I was feeling?'
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「為什麼我沒有留意當時的感覺？」
04:03
When he pulled over near the highway,
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當他在高速公路附近靠邊停車時，
04:06
that's when I got scared.
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我感到害怕了。
04:09
But he told me to relax, that he liked me,
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但他叫我放輕鬆，說他喜歡我，
04:12
and that nothing would happen
unless I wanted it to.
unless I wanted it to.
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且什麼都不會發生，除非我想要。
04:15
He was nice.
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他人很好。
04:17
I didn't say anything,
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我什麼都沒說，
04:18
because I was afraid he would get angry,
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因為我怕他會生氣，
04:20
and that things would get worse.
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情況就會變糟。
04:23
I thought he might have a gun
in the glove compartment.
in the glove compartment.
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我猜想在手套置物箱中
可能會有把槍。
可能會有把槍。
04:26
Suddenly, he jumped on me
and tried to kiss me.
and tried to kiss me.
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突然，他跳到我身上，試著親吻我。
04:30
I said no. I wanted to push him away,
but he was holding my arms down.
but he was holding my arms down.
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我說不要，想把他推開，
但他壓制住我的手臂。
但他壓制住我的手臂。
04:35
When I wriggled free, I tried to open
the door, but it was locked.
the door, but it was locked.
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當我掙開時，我試著開門，
但門被鎖住了。
但門被鎖住了。
04:40
And even if I had gotten out,
where would I have gone?
where would I have gone?
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就算我能逃出去，我能往哪跑？
04:46
I told him he wasn't the kind of guy
who needed to do that to be with a girl,
who needed to do that to be with a girl,
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我告訴他，他不是需要
對女孩做那種事的那種男人，
對女孩做那種事的那種男人，
04:51
and that I liked him, too,
but not in that way.
but not in that way.
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且我也喜歡他，
但不是那種喜歡方式。
但不是那種喜歡方式。
04:54
I tried to calm him down.
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我試著安撫他，
04:56
I said nice things about him.
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對他說好話。
04:59
I talked to him as if
I were his older sister.
I were his older sister.
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我跟他說話的方式，
就像我是他姐姐一樣。
就像我是他姐姐一樣。
05:03
Suddenly, he covered
my mouth with one hand
my mouth with one hand
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突然，他用一隻手摀住了我的嘴巴，
05:07
and with the other hand
he unbuckled his belt.
he unbuckled his belt.
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用另一隻手解開了他的皮帶。
05:11
I thought right then he would kill me,
strangle me, you know?
strangle me, you know?
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當下我以為他要殺我、
勒死我，你知道嗎？
勒死我，你知道嗎？
05:17
I never felt so alone,
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我從來沒有感到那麼孤單過，
05:20
like I had been kidnapped.
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就像我被綁架了一樣。
05:22
I asked him to finish quickly
and then take me home."
and then take me home."
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我請他快點結束，然後送我回家。」
05:27
How did you feel listening to this story?
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聽這個故事，你們的感覺如何？
05:31
Surely, several questions arose.
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當然，會想問許多問題。
05:37
For example: Why didn't she roll down
the window and call for help?
the window and call for help?
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比如：為什麼她不搖下窗戶求救？
05:44
Why didn't she get out of the car
when she felt something bad might happen?
when she felt something bad might happen?
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為什麼她不在感覺有壞事
要發生時就快點下車？
要發生時就快點下車？
05:49
How could she ask him to take her home?
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她怎麼能讓他載她回家？
05:55
Now, when we hear this kind
of story not on the news
of story not on the news
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當我們聽到這種故事──
不是從新聞聽到，
不是從新聞聽到，
05:59
or from someone like me,
presenting it on a stage like this --
presenting it on a stage like this --
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不是從像我這樣
在台上演說的人聽到──
在台上演說的人聽到──
06:06
when we're hearing it from someone we know
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而是從認識的人那聽到這種故事，
06:10
who chose to entrust us
with the story of what happened to them,
with the story of what happened to them,
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而且她是因信得過我們才說出來的，
06:17
we'll have to listen.
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我們就得要傾聽。
06:20
And we'll hear things
we won't be able to understand --
we won't be able to understand --
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我們會聽到一些無法理解
06:26
or accept.
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或無法接受的事。
06:28
And then doubts, questions
and suspicion will creep in.
and suspicion will creep in.
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接著，懷疑、問題、猜疑
都會在不知不覺中產生，
都會在不知不覺中產生，
06:36
And that is going to make us feel
really bad and guilty.
really bad and guilty.
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使我們感到很糟且很有罪惡感。
06:42
So to protect ourselves
from the discomfort, we have an option.
from the discomfort, we have an option.
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為了避開這種不舒服，
我們有個選項，
我們有個選項，
06:48
We turn up the volume
on all the parts of the story
on all the parts of the story
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我們會把故事中預期聽見的部份
06:54
that we expected to hear:
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通通給放大：
06:56
a gun in the glove compartment,
the locked doors, the isolated location.
the locked doors, the isolated location.
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手套置物箱中的槍、
鎖上的門、偏遠的地點。
鎖上的門、偏遠的地點。
07:03
And we turn down the volume
on all the parts of the story
on all the parts of the story
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我們會把故事中
我們不預期聽見、
我們不預期聽見、
07:07
that we didn't expect to hear
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不想聽見的部份，
07:09
and that we don't want to hear;
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通通給縮小；
07:13
like when she tells him
that she liked him, too,
that she liked him, too,
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比如她告訴他說她也喜歡他、
07:18
or when she tells us she spoke to him
as if she were his older sister,
as if she were his older sister,
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她像姐姐般對他說話，
07:22
or that she asked him to take her home.
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或是她請他送她回家。
07:26
Why do we do this?
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為什麼我們要這樣做？
這樣我們才能相信她，
07:30
It's so we can believe her;
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07:32
so we can feel confident
that she really was a victim.
that she really was a victim.
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這樣我們才能確定她真的是受害者。
07:39
I call this "victimization of the victim."
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我稱之為「將受害者給受害者化」。
07:44
"Victimization," because in order
to believe she's innocent,
to believe she's innocent,
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「受害者化」，為要相信她的無辜，
07:48
that she's a victim,
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相信她是受害者，
07:50
we need to think of her
as helpless, paralyzed, mute.
as helpless, paralyzed, mute.
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我們得要想像她無助、
嚇得不能動彈、說不出話來。
嚇得不能動彈、說不出話來。
07:59
But there's another way
to avoid the discomfort.
to avoid the discomfort.
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但還有另一種方式可以避免不舒服，
08:04
And it's exactly the opposite:
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是完全相反的方式：
08:07
we turn up the volume on the things
we didn't expect to hear,
we didn't expect to hear,
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我們會把故事中我們
不預期聽見的部份給放大，
不預期聽見的部份給放大，
08:12
such as "I spoke nicely to him,"
"I asked him to take me home,"
"I asked him to take me home,"
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比如：「我好好跟他說」、
「我請他送我回家」、
「我請他送我回家」、
08:15
"I asked him to finish quickly,"
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「我請他快點結束」，
08:18
and we turn down the volume
on the things we did expect to hear:
on the things we did expect to hear:
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然後把我們預期聽見的部份給縮小：
08:23
the gun in the glove compartment,
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手套置物箱中的槍、
08:25
the isolation.
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偏遠地區。
08:30
Why do we do this?
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為什麼我們要這樣做？
08:32
We do it so we can cling to the doubts
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這樣我們才能緊緊抓住懷疑，
08:37
and feel more comfortable about them.
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才能漸漸不會對懷疑感到不舒服。
08:40
Then, new questions arise, for instance:
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接著，就會有新問題出現，比如：
08:47
Who told her go to those clubs?
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誰叫她去那些夜店的？
08:51
You saw how she and her friends
were dressed, right?
were dressed, right?
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你看到她和她的朋友
怎麼穿的了，對吧？
怎麼穿的了，對吧？
08:55
Those miniskirts, those necklines?
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那些迷你裙，那些領口？
08:58
What do you expect?
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你期望發生什麼事？
09:00
Questions that aren't really questions,
but rather, judgments --
but rather, judgments --
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這些其實不是問題，而是論斷──
09:06
judgments that end in a verdict:
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論斷最後會以一個裁決收場：
09:11
she asked for it.
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她自找的。
09:15
That finding would be verified by the fact
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這個發現有事實可以背書，
09:18
that she didn't mention having
struggled to avoid being raped.
struggled to avoid being raped.
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她沒有提到她有掙扎或是被強暴。
09:24
So that means she didn't resist.
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那意味著她沒有抵抗。
09:30
It means she consented.
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那意味著她同意。
09:32
If she asked for it and allowed it,
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如果是她自找的，她允許事情發生，
09:36
how are we calling it rape?
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我們怎麼能稱之為強暴？
09:40
I call this "blaming the victim."
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我稱之為「怪罪受害者。」
09:45
These arguments that serve us
both to blame and to victimize,
both to blame and to victimize,
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「怪罪」或「受害者化」的論點，
09:52
we all have them in our heads, at hand --
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在每個人的腦中、手上都有，
09:57
including victims and perpetrators.
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連受害者和行兇者也都有。
10:01
So much so, that when Ana came to me,
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所以，當安娜來找我、告訴我，
她不知道她的證詞是否有用，
10:06
she told me she didn't know
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10:09
if her testimony was going
to be of any use,
to be of any use,
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10:13
because she wasn't sure
if what happened to her qualified as rape.
if what happened to her qualified as rape.
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因為她不確定發生在她身上的事
是否算得上是強暴。
是否算得上是強暴。
10:22
Ana believed, like most of us,
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和我們大部份人一樣，
10:24
that rape is more like armed robbery --
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安娜也相信強暴比較像武裝搶劫，
10:29
a violent act that lasts 4 or 5 minutes --
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是持續四或五分鐘的暴力行為，
10:34
and not smooth talking from a nice guy
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而不是一個持續一整晚
說話很柔和的好人，
說話很柔和的好人，
10:37
that lasts all night and ends
in a kidnapping.
in a kidnapping.
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最終以綁架收場。
10:45
When she felt afraid she might be killed,
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當她覺得很害怕會被殺死時，
10:48
she was afraid to be left with scars,
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她擔心會留下傷疤，
10:52
and she had to give her body to avoid it.
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她得交出她的身體來避免這事發生。
10:56
That's when she knew that rape
was something different.
was something different.
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那時，她就知道強暴是不同的。
11:02
Ana had never talked
about this with anyone.
about this with anyone.
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安娜從來沒有和任何人談過此事。
11:07
She could have turned to her family,
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她可以向家人求助，
11:10
but she didn't.
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但她沒有，
11:12
She didn't because she was afraid.
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原因是她害怕。
11:16
She was afraid the person
she'd choose to tell her story to
she'd choose to tell her story to
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她害怕她傾訴的對象，
11:22
would have the same reaction
as the rest of us:
as the rest of us:
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反應會和我們其他所有人一樣，
11:26
they'd have doubts, suspicions;
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會懷疑、猜疑；
11:30
those same questions we always have
when it comes to things like this.
when it comes to things like this.
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會有當聽到這類事情時
我們總是會問的那些問題。
11:35
And if that had happened,
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如果真的是這樣，
11:37
it would have been worse, perhaps,
than the rape itself.
than the rape itself.
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那只會更糟，可能比強暴本身還糟。
11:42
She could have talked
to a friend or a sister.
to a friend or a sister.
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她可以和朋友或是姐妹談。
11:47
And with her partner, it would
have been extremely difficult:
have been extremely difficult:
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若和她的另一半談會極度困難；
11:51
the slightest hint of doubt
on his face or in his voice
on his face or in his voice
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只要他的臉上或聲音中
有一點點懷疑的跡象，
有一點點懷疑的跡象，
11:55
would have been devastating for her
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對她就會是很大的傷害，
11:58
and would have probably meant
the end of their relationship.
the end of their relationship.
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也可能會讓他們的關係結束。
12:03
Ana keeps silent
because deep down she knows
because deep down she knows
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安娜保持沉默，
因為她內心深處知道，
因為她內心深處知道，
12:07
that nobody -- none of us,
not her family or therapists,
not her family or therapists,
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沒有人──
不論是我們、她的家人、治療師、
12:13
let alone the police or judges --
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更不用說警察或法官──
12:17
are willing to hear what Ana
actually did in that moment.
actually did in that moment.
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沒有人願意聽
當時安娜到底做了什麼。
當時安娜到底做了什麼。
12:26
First and foremost, Ana said, "No."
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首先，也是最重要的，
安娜說了「不要」。
安娜說了「不要」。
12:32
When she saw that her "no" didn't help,
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當她發現她的「不要」沒有用時，
12:35
she spoke nicely to him.
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她好好地跟他說。
12:37
She tried not to exacerbate his violence
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她試著不要觸發他的暴力行為
12:40
or give him ideas.
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或是讓他想歪。
12:44
She talked to him as if everything
that was happening were normal,
that was happening were normal,
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她裝作一切正常地在跟他說話，
12:49
so he wouldn't be thinking
that she would turn him in later.
that she would turn him in later.
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這樣他才不會認為她之後會告發他。
12:59
Now, I wonder and I ask all of you:
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我很納悶，我想問在座所有人：
13:05
All those things she did --
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所有她做的那些事不算抵抗嗎？
13:08
isn't that considered resisting?
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13:12
No.
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不算。
13:14
For all or at least most of us, it's not,
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至少對大部份人而言，那不算，
13:17
probably because it's not "resisting"
in the eyes of the law.
in the eyes of the law.
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因為從法律的角度來看
那不算是「抵抗」。
那不算是「抵抗」。
13:22
In most countries,
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大部份國家的法律
13:24
the laws still require
that the victim prove her innocence --
that the victim prove her innocence --
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仍然要求受害者證明她自己無辜。
13:30
that's right: the victim needs
to prove her innocence --
to prove her innocence --
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沒錯，受害者得要證明自己無辜，
13:34
by showing marks on her body
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做法是展示身上的傷痕
13:37
as evidence that she engaged
in a vigorous and continuous fight
in a vigorous and continuous fight
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當作是證據，
證明她曾奮力持續對抗攻擊她的人。
13:42
with her aggressor.
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13:46
I can assure you, in most court cases,
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我向各位保證，
在大部份法庭案件中，
在大部份法庭案件中，
13:50
no amount of marks is ever enough.
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不論多少傷痕都不足夠。
13:55
I listened to many women's stories.
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我傾聽了許多女性的故事，
14:00
And I didn't hear any of them
talking about themselves
talking about themselves
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沒聽到任何一個在談論自己的時候，
像是已經被降格成一樣東西，
14:06
as if they had been reduced to a thing,
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14:09
totally subjected
to the will of the other.
to the will of the other.
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完全屈服於另一方的意圖。
14:14
Rather, they sounded astonished
and even a little proud
and even a little proud
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反之，聽起來吃驚，甚至有些自豪，
14:20
looking back
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她們事後回想
14:23
and thinking how clear-headed
they had been at the time,
they had been at the time,
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當時頭腦有多清楚，
14:28
of how much attention
they paid to every detail,
they paid to every detail,
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有多麼注意到每個細節，
14:31
as if that would allow them to exert
some control over what was happening.
some control over what was happening.
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彷彿這麼做就能讓她們
多少控制住發生的事情。
多少控制住發生的事情。
14:39
Then I realized,
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接著，我了解到，
14:42
of course --
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當然
14:43
what women are doing in these situations
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在這類情況下，
14:47
is negotiating.
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女性是在談判協商，
14:51
They're trading sex for life.
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用性來換性命。
14:57
They ask the aggressor to finish quickly,
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她們要求性侵者快點完事，
15:02
so everything is over as soon as possible
and at the lowest cost.
and at the lowest cost.
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這樣才會快點落幕，
把成本降到最低。
把成本降到最低。
15:08
They subject themselves to penetration,
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她們讓自己被侵入，
15:13
because believe it or not,
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信不信由你，
15:17
penetration is what keeps them furthest
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是因為侵入最能讓她們遠離
15:21
from a sexual or emotional scenario.
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性或是情緒的情境。
15:26
They subject themselves to penetration,
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她們讓自己被侵入，
15:29
because penetration is less painful
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因為，相對於親吻、
愛撫或溫柔的話語，
愛撫或溫柔的話語，
15:34
than kisses, caresses and gentle words.
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侵入是比較不痛苦的。
15:42
Now, if we continue to expect
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如果我們繼續預期
15:47
rape to be what it very rarely is --
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強暴是那種實際上
不太可能發生的樣子，
不太可能發生的樣子，
15:52
with the rapist as a depraved
lower-class man
lower-class man
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強暴犯是頹廢的社會低層男性，
15:56
and not a university student
or a businessman
or a businessman
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而不是在星期五或星期六
外出追求女孩的
外出追求女孩的
16:00
who goes out chasing after girls
on a Friday or Saturday;
on a Friday or Saturday;
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大學生或是生意人；
16:04
if we keep expecting
the victims to be demure women
the victims to be demure women
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如果我們持續預期受害者
都是在現場會昏倒的嫻靜女性，
16:09
who faint on the scene,
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16:13
and not self-confident women --
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而不是自信的女子──
16:17
we will continue to be unable to listen.
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那麼我們無法傾聽的情況將會持續。
16:22
Women will continue to be unable to speak.
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女性無法說出來的情況將會持續。
16:26
And we will all continue to be responsible
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而我們也將持續要為她們的沉默、
16:31
for that silence
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以及孤獨，
16:34
and their solitude.
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負起責任。
16:37
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Inés Hercovich - Sociologist, social psychologistInés Hercovich is a pioneer in the study of sexual violence against women.
Why you should listen
Inés Hercovich is a sociologist and social psychologist who for decades has researched subjects related to the discrimination of women. She is a pioneer in the study of sexual violence against women, and in 1990 she founded the first crisis service for victims of sexual assault. Apart from her work, Hercovich is also a sculptor, and in recent years, a world traveler.
Inés Hercovich | Speaker | TED.com