TEDMED 2017
Frans de Waal: The surprising science of alpha males
Frans de Val (Frans de Waal): Iznenađujuća nauka o alfa mužjacima
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U ovom opčinjavajućem osvrtu na „alfa mužjake“, primatolog Frans de Val istražuje privilegije i cenu moći, dok pravi iznenađujuće paralele između toga kako ljudi i primati biraju svoje vođe. Njegovo istraživanje otkriva neke od neočekivanih kapaciteta alfa mužjaka - darežljivost, empatiju, čak i održavanje mira - i baca svetlo na borbe moći ljudskih političara. „Neko ko je velik i jak i zastrašuje i vređa svakoga, nije nužno alfa mužjak“, kaže De Val.
Frans de Waal - Primatologist
Frans de Waal studies primate social behavior -- how they fight and reconcile, share and cooperate. Full bio
Frans de Waal studies primate social behavior -- how they fight and reconcile, share and cooperate. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Well, I have known
many alpha males in my life,
many alpha males in my life,
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Dakle, poznavao sam mnoge
alfa mužjake u mom životu,
alfa mužjake u mom životu,
00:16
chimpanzee alpha males,
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alfa mužjake šimpanzi,
00:19
and I'm going to talk
about what an alpha male is,
about what an alpha male is,
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i govoriću vam o tome
šta je to alfa mužjak
šta je to alfa mužjak
00:22
because I think we can all learn
a lot from our close relatives
a lot from our close relatives
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jer mislim da svi mi možemo
mnogo da naučimo od naših bliskih rođaka
mnogo da naučimo od naših bliskih rođaka
00:26
where we have alpha males.
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kod kojih imamo alfa mužjake.
00:28
And as an example, I want to give you
Amos, a male that I knew
Amos, a male that I knew
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A kao primer želim da navedem Ejmosa,
mužjaka kojeg sam poznavao,
mužjaka kojeg sam poznavao,
00:33
who was a young male
and he was alpha male,
and he was alpha male,
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koji je bio mladi mužjak
i bio je alfa mužjak,
i bio je alfa mužjak,
00:35
he was very popular,
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bio je veoma popularan,
00:36
but he got sick
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ali se razboleo
00:38
and he lost his position because,
you know, chimpanzee males
you know, chimpanzee males
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i izgubio je svoju poziciju
jer, znate, mužjaci šimpanzi
jer, znate, mužjaci šimpanzi
00:42
they can spot from a mile away
if you are weak
if you are weak
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mogu sa kilometar udaljenosti
da spaze ako ste slabi,
da spaze ako ste slabi,
00:44
and they went for him,
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pa su se ustremili na njega,
00:46
and he lost his position,
and then he got sicker and sicker
and then he got sicker and sicker
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i on je izgubio svoju poziciju,
te je postajao sve bolesniji
te je postajao sve bolesniji
00:49
until at some point we had to isolate him.
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sve do momenta kada smo morali
da ga izolujemo.
da ga izolujemo.
00:52
The group lived on a grassy island,
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Grupa je živela na travnatom ostrvu,
00:56
and we had to isolate him in a cage,
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a morali smo da ga izolujemo u kavez,
00:58
but we cracked open the cage
so that the rest of the chimps
so that the rest of the chimps
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ali smo ostavili kavez otvoren
kako bi mu ostale šimpanze
kako bi mu ostale šimpanze
01:01
still had access to him.
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i dalje imale pristup.
01:02
And what happened was most touching.
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A desilo se nešto najdirljivije.
01:04
Other chimps would bring food to him,
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Druge šimpanze bi mu donosile hranu,
01:07
they would bring wood wool to him,
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donosile bi mu drvenu vunu,
01:09
which is this thing that they use
to sleep in and build nests out of,
to sleep in and build nests out of,
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a to je nešto što koriste
za spavanje i izradu gnezda,
za spavanje i izradu gnezda,
01:13
and females would put
the wood wool behind his back.
the wood wool behind his back.
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a ženke bi mu stavljale
drvenu vunu iza leđa.
drvenu vunu iza leđa.
01:16
He was leaning heavily against the wall,
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Poprilično se naslanjao na zid,
01:18
and the way we do with pillows
to patients in a hospital,
to patients in a hospital,
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i kao što mi radimo sa jastucima
kod pacijenata u bolnicama,
kod pacijenata u bolnicama,
01:22
they were putting
that stuff behind his back.
that stuff behind his back.
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stavljale su tu stvar njemu iza leđa.
01:24
And I thought, this is the way
to go for an alpha male.
to go for an alpha male.
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I mislio sam kako je to pravi način
da se ophodi prema alfa mužjaku.
da se ophodi prema alfa mužjaku.
01:28
He was loved and respected,
and everyone was taking care of him,
and everyone was taking care of him,
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Voleli su ga i poštovali
i svi su ga pazili,
i svi su ga pazili,
01:32
and this is not always how it goes,
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a to se uvek tako ne dešava
01:33
because some males don't answer well
when they lose their position.
when they lose their position.
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jer neki mužjaci ne završe dobro
nakon gubitka pozicije.
nakon gubitka pozicije.
01:37
So Amos was an example
of a male who was liked as a leader,
of a male who was liked as a leader,
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Dakle, Ejmos je bio primer
mužjaka koga su voleli kao vođu,
mužjaka koga su voleli kao vođu,
01:42
and I think the term alpha male,
if you look it up on the internet,
if you look it up on the internet,
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a smatram da termin alfa mužjak,
ako ga potražite na internetu,
ako ga potražite na internetu,
01:46
you will find all these business books
that tell you how to be an alpha male,
that tell you how to be an alpha male,
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otkrićete sve te poslovne knjige koje vam
govore kako da budete alfa mužjak,
govore kako da budete alfa mužjak,
01:49
and what they mean
is how to beat up others
is how to beat up others
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a pod time podrazumevaju
kako da potučete druge
kako da potučete druge
01:52
and beat them over the head
and let them know that you are boss
and let them know that you are boss
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i da ih potučete do kostiju
i date im do znanja da ste vi šef
i date im do znanja da ste vi šef
01:55
and don't mess with me and so on.
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i ne kačite se sa mnom i tako dalje.
01:56
And basically an alpha male
for them is a bully.
for them is a bully.
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I u suštini za njih
alfa mužjak je nasilnik.
alfa mužjak je nasilnik.
02:00
And I really don't like
that kind of description,
that kind of description,
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I meni se zaista ne sviđa takav opis
02:04
because I am actually partly responsible
for the term "alpha male"
for the term "alpha male"
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zato što sam ja delimično odgovoran
za termin „alfa mužjak“
za termin „alfa mužjak“
02:08
because I wrote this book
"Chimpanzee Politics,"
"Chimpanzee Politics,"
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jer sam napisao knjigu:
„Politika šimpanzi“,
„Politika šimpanzi“,
02:11
which was recommended by Newt Gingrich
to freshmen congressmen.
to freshmen congressmen.
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koju je mladim kongresmenima
preporučio Njut Gingrič.
preporučio Njut Gingrič.
02:16
I don't know what good it did,
but he recommended that book to them,
but he recommended that book to them,
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Ne znam koliko im je koristila,
ali on im je tu knjigu preporučio,
ali on im je tu knjigu preporučio,
02:20
and after that the term
"alpha male" became very popular.
"alpha male" became very popular.
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a nakon toga je termin
„alfa mužjak“ postao veoma popularan.
„alfa mužjak“ postao veoma popularan.
02:24
But I think it is used
in a mischaracterization.
in a mischaracterization.
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Međutim, mislim da se koristi
kao pogrešna karakterizacija.
kao pogrešna karakterizacija.
02:27
It's used in a very superficial way
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Koristi se na veoma površan način
02:30
that doesn't relate
to what a real alpha male is.
to what a real alpha male is.
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koji nema veze s tim
šta je istinski alfa mužjak.
šta je istinski alfa mužjak.
02:32
And so I'm here to explain what that is.
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Pa sam tu da objasnim šta je to.
02:35
The term itself goes back
actually much further.
actually much further.
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Sam termin je daleko stariji.
02:37
It goes back to the '40s and '50s,
research on wolves,
research on wolves,
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Potiče iz '40-ih i '50-ih
iz istraživanja o vukovima,
iz istraživanja o vukovima,
i u suštini, njegova definicija
je veoma prosta.
je veoma prosta.
02:41
and basically the definition
is very simple.
is very simple.
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02:43
The highest ranking male
is the alpha male.
is the alpha male.
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Mužjak koji ima najveći rang
je alfa mužjak.
je alfa mužjak.
02:45
The highest ranking female
is the alpha female.
is the alpha female.
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Ženka koja ima najveći rang
je alfa ženka.
je alfa ženka.
02:48
Every primate group
has one alpha male, one alpha female,
has one alpha male, one alpha female,
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Svaka grupa primata ima jednog
alfa mužjaka, jednu alfa ženku,
alfa mužjaka, jednu alfa ženku,
02:51
not more than that, there's only one.
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ne više od toga, postoji samo jedan.
02:54
And I will explain how that goes.
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A ja ću da objasnim kako to ide.
02:57
So first, the body language.
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Dakle, prvo, govor tela.
02:59
What you see here is two male chimpanzees
who are the same size,
who are the same size,
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Ovde vidite dva mužjaka šimpanze
koji su iste veličine,
koji su iste veličine,
ali jedan hoda uspravljeno,
dlaka mu je nakostrešena,
dlaka mu je nakostrešena,
03:03
but one is walking upright,
has his hair up,
has his hair up,
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03:06
has a big rock in his hand,
and he's the alpha male.
and he's the alpha male.
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ima veliki kamen u ruci
i on je alfa mužjak.
i on je alfa mužjak.
03:08
The other male is pant-grunting to him,
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Drugi mužjak dahćući rokće na njega,
03:11
is being submissive to him
and bowing for him,
and bowing for him,
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podređen mu je i klanja mu se,
03:14
and that is the sort of ritual they need
to go through many times a day
to go through many times a day
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a radi se o nekakvom ritualu kroz koji
moraju da prođu mnogo puta na dan
moraju da prođu mnogo puta na dan
03:17
in order to have a stable relationship.
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kako bi imali stabilan odnos.
03:20
I'll show you a video from the field.
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Pokazaću vam snimak sa terena.
03:23
What you will see here
is a female pant-grunting to an alpha male
is a female pant-grunting to an alpha male
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Ovde ćete videti ženku
kako dahćući rokće na alfa mužjaka
kako dahćući rokće na alfa mužjaka
03:26
and you will see how that goes.
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i videćete kako se to odvija.
03:29
The male is approaching,
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Mužjak prilazi,
03:30
she grunts at him.
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rokće na njega.
03:31
(Chimpanzee grunts)
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(Šimpanza rokće)
03:33
He has all his hair up
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Sva dlaka mu je nakostrešena
03:35
and he displays.
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i on paradira.
03:39
I'm actually standing far too close.
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Zapravo stojim suviše blizu.
03:41
A chimpanzee is far stronger than I am,
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Šimpanza je mnogo snažnija od mene
03:44
and I just was not very prudent,
this particular video.
this particular video.
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i ja prosto nisam bio veoma obazriv
tokom baš ovog snimka.
tokom baš ovog snimka.
03:48
So what you saw him do
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Dakle, videli ste da radi sledeće:
03:51
is he was lifting himself up
and standing on two legs,
and standing on two legs,
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uspravljao se i stajao na dve noge,
03:54
and putting his arms out.
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i širio je ruke.
03:55
That's called the bipedal swagger.
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To se naziva dvonožnim šepurenjem.
03:57
It's a very common posture
in high-ranking males,
in high-ranking males,
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Veoma je uobičajeno držanje
kod visoko rangiranih mužjaka,
kod visoko rangiranih mužjaka,
04:00
and it's very recognizable
because humans do this kind of stuff.
because humans do this kind of stuff.
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i veoma je prepoznatljivo
jer i ljudi rade nešto slično.
jer i ljudi rade nešto slično.
04:03
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
04:04
Humans do this all the time.
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Ljudi to rade sve vreme.
04:07
And what I really like
about this particular picture
about this particular picture
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A ono što mi se zaista sviđa
baš kod ove slike
baš kod ove slike
04:10
is the two old guys to the side.
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su dva stara momka sa strane.
04:13
This is very chimpanzee.
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Ovo je tako tipično za šimpanze.
04:15
In chimpanzees,
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Kod šimpanzi,
04:16
we have usually old males
who are over the hill,
who are over the hill,
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obično imamo stare mužjake
koji su u odmaklom dobu,
koji su u odmaklom dobu,
04:19
who cannot be alpha male
themselves anymore,
themselves anymore,
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koji sami više ne mogu
da budu alfa mužjaci,
da budu alfa mužjaci,
04:22
but they start playing games
and forming coalitions,
and forming coalitions,
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ali oni počinju da igraju igre
i da formiraju koalicije,
i da formiraju koalicije,
04:25
and behind the backs of others.
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i to drugima iza leđa.
04:27
And they become extremely influential,
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I postaju izuzetno uticajni,
04:29
and you may actually have old males
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i zapravo možete da imate stare mužjake
04:31
who are more influential
than the alpha male himself.
than the alpha male himself.
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koji su daleko uticajniji
od samog alfa mužjaka.
od samog alfa mužjaka.
04:35
Just as an example,
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Samo da vam dam primer,
04:36
the three males
that I used to work with most
that I used to work with most
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tri mužjaka sa kojima
sam nekad davno najviše radio
sam nekad davno najviše radio
04:39
at the Dutch zoo long ago, where I worked,
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u holandskom zoološkom vrtu,
gde sam radio,
gde sam radio,
04:41
and the middle male here
is a 17-year-old alpha male.
is a 17-year-old alpha male.
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a mužjak ovde u sredini
je 17-godišnji alfa mužjak.
je 17-godišnji alfa mužjak.
04:45
The male who is grooming
on the side is twice as old,
on the side is twice as old,
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Mužjak koga timari sa strane
je dvostruko stariji,
je dvostruko stariji,
04:50
and this old male has made him the leader.
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a ovaj stari mužjak ga je proizveo u vođu.
04:53
So you can imagine that that old male
has an enormous amount of power,
has an enormous amount of power,
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Dakle, možete da zamislite
kako taj stari mužjak ima ogromnu moć
kako taj stari mužjak ima ogromnu moć
04:56
because he has made
the alpha male alpha male.
the alpha male alpha male.
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jer je alfa mužjaka
proizveo u alfa mužjaka.
proizveo u alfa mužjaka.
04:58
The male on the right
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Mužjak zdesna
05:00
is individually the strongest male.
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je pojedinačno najsnažniji mužjak.
05:02
In captivity, you can test it out,
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U zarobljeništvu to možete da testirate
05:05
and you can know that this male
has no trouble with either one.
has no trouble with either one.
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i možete da znate da ovaj mužjak
nema problema ni sa jednim od druga dva.
nema problema ni sa jednim od druga dva.
05:09
He has only trouble
with the combination of the two.
with the combination of the two.
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On jedino ima problema
sa kombinacijom druga dva.
sa kombinacijom druga dva.
05:12
And so the coalition formation
that goes on in chimpanzee society
that goes on in chimpanzee society
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Stoga, zbog formiranja koalicija,
koje se dešava u društvu šimpanzi,
koje se dešava u društvu šimpanzi,
to društvo je daleko složenije
nego što mislite.
nego što mislite.
05:16
makes it much more complex than you think.
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05:18
It means, for example,
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To znači, na primer,
05:20
that the smallest male in a group
can be the alpha male.
can be the alpha male.
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da najmanji mužjak u grupi
može da bude alfa mužjak.
može da bude alfa mužjak.
05:23
You don't need to be
the biggest and strongest male.
the biggest and strongest male.
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Ne morate da budete
najveći i najsnažniji mužjak.
najveći i najsnažniji mužjak.
05:25
The smallest male, if he has
the right friends and keeps them happy,
the right friends and keeps them happy,
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Najmanji mužjak, ako ima
prave prijatelje i održava ih srećnim,
prave prijatelje i održava ih srećnim,
05:29
or he has female support,
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ili ima podršku ženki,
05:30
he can be the alpha male.
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može da bude alfa mužjak.
05:33
So the coalition system
makes everything complex,
makes everything complex,
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Dakle, zbog sistema koalicija
sve je složenije,
sve je složenije,
05:36
and I'm always waiting here in the US
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a ja uvek čekam ovde u SAD-u
05:39
for the primaries,
the end of the primaries,
the end of the primaries,
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glavne izbore, kraj glavnih izbora
05:41
because that's a moment
where you need to demonstrate unity.
where you need to demonstrate unity.
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jer je to trenutak
u kome morate da pokažete jedinstvo.
u kome morate da pokažete jedinstvo.
05:45
Now let me first show you
how the unity is shown in chimpanzees.
how the unity is shown in chimpanzees.
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Sad, dozvolite mi da vam pokažem
kako jedinstvo pokazuju šimpanze.
kako jedinstvo pokazuju šimpanze.
05:48
What you see here is two males on the left
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Ovde vidite dva mužjaka sleva
05:50
who are standing together.
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koji stoje zajedno.
05:52
You also see the big
canine teeth that they have.
canine teeth that they have.
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Takođe vidite velike očnjake koje imaju.
05:54
And they're standing together and they
demonstrate to the rest of the group,
demonstrate to the rest of the group,
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A oni stoje zajedno
i pokazuju ostatku grupe:
i pokazuju ostatku grupe:
05:58
"We are together. We are a unit."
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„Zajedno smo. Ujedinjeni smo.“
06:00
The males on the right
are walking together in synchrony.
are walking together in synchrony.
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Mužjaci zdesna sinhronizovano
hodaju jedan do drugog.
hodaju jedan do drugog.
06:03
That's another way of demonstrating
that you are together.
that you are together.
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To je još jedan način
pokazivanja zajedništva.
pokazivanja zajedništva.
06:06
And so demonstrating unity
is extremely important
is extremely important
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Dakle, pokazivanje jedinstva
je izuzetno važno
je izuzetno važno
06:09
in a coalition system,
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u sistemu koalicija
06:11
and as I said, in the primaries
always I'm waiting for that moment
always I'm waiting for that moment
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i, kao što sam rekao, tokom glavnih izbora
uvek čekam taj trenutak
uvek čekam taj trenutak
06:14
because then you have
two members of the same party
two members of the same party
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jer tada imate dva člana iste partije,
06:17
who have been fighting with each other,
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koji su se međusobno takmičili,
06:19
and they need to come
together at some moment.
together at some moment.
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a u jednom trenutku moraju da se ujedine.
06:22
And it leads to very awkward situations.
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A to vodi do veoma neprijatnih situacija.
Ljudi koji se međusobno ne vole,
moraju da prigrle jedno drugo
moraju da prigrle jedno drugo
06:25
People who don't like each other
need to embrace each other
need to embrace each other
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06:27
and stand together,
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i da stoje zajedno,
06:29
and that's absolutely essential
for the unity of the party,
for the unity of the party,
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a to je apsolutno krucijalno
za jedinstvo partije
za jedinstvo partije
06:32
and if you don't do that,
the party may fall apart.
the party may fall apart.
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i, ako to ne uradite,
partija može da se raspadne.
partija može da se raspadne.
06:35
And so if it doesn't go well,
like in this particular case --
like in this particular case --
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A ako ne prođe kako treba,
kao u ovom naročitom slučaju -
kao u ovom naročitom slučaju -
06:38
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
06:39
then the party is in deep doo-doo
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onda je partija u grdnoj nevolji
06:41
because they have not demonstrated unity.
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jer nisu pokazali jedinstvo.
06:44
So that's a very important part
of the coalition system,
of the coalition system,
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Dakle, to je veoma važan deo
sistema koalicija
sistema koalicija
06:47
and that's something that we share
between humans and chimpanzees.
between humans and chimpanzees.
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i to je nešto što je zajedničko
ljudima i šimpanzama.
ljudima i šimpanzama.
06:51
Now, how do you become an alpha male?
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Sad, kako postajete alfa mužjak?
06:55
First of all, you need to be
impressive and intimidating
impressive and intimidating
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Pre svega, morate da budete
impresivni i zastrašujući
impresivni i zastrašujući
06:58
and demonstrate your vigor on occasion
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1936
i da povremeno pokažete snagu
07:00
and show that you are very strong,
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i da pokažete da ste veoma jaki,
07:02
and there's all sorts
of ways of doing that.
of ways of doing that.
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a postoje razni načini da to postignete.
Ali druge stvari koje morate da radite,
morate da budete darežljivi.
morate da budete darežljivi.
07:05
But other things that you need to do
is you need to be generous.
is you need to be generous.
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07:08
So, for example,
males who go on a campaign
males who go on a campaign
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Dakle, na primer,
mužjaci koji vode kampanju
mužjaci koji vode kampanju
07:10
to dethrone the leader,
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da svrgnu vođu,
07:11
which may take two or three months
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što može da potraje dva do tri meseca,
07:14
where they're testing
all the coalitions in the group,
all the coalitions in the group,
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gde oni testiraju sve koalicije u grupi,
07:17
they also become extremely generous.
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1936
takođe postaju krajnje darežljivi.
07:19
They share food very easily with everyone.
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S lakoćom dele hranu sa svima.
07:21
Or they start to tickle
the babies of the females.
the babies of the females.
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Ili počinju da golicaju bebe ženki.
07:24
They're normally, male chimpanzees,
not particularly interested in infants,
not particularly interested in infants,
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3536
Mužjaci šimpanze obično nisu
naročito zainteresovani za novorođenčad,
naročito zainteresovani za novorođenčad,
07:28
but when they are campaigning like that,
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ali tokom kampanja poput ove,
07:30
they get very interested in infants
and they tickle them,
and they tickle them,
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postaju veoma zainteresovani
za bebe i golicaju ih
za bebe i golicaju ih
07:33
and they try to curry favor
with the females.
with the females.
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2296
i pokušavaju da izmame
naklonost kod ženki.
naklonost kod ženki.
07:35
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
Zato sam kod ljudi, naravno,
07:36
So in humans, of course,
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07:37
I am always intrigued
by these men who are candidates
by these men who are candidates
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uvek intrigiran muškarcima
koji su kandidati
koji su kandidati
07:41
and hold babies up like this.
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i podižu bebe ovako.
07:42
This is not particularly
something that babies like --
something that babies like --
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Ovo nije nešto što bebe naročito vole -
07:45
(Laughter)
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1016
(Smeh)
07:46
but since it is a signal
to the rest of the world,
to the rest of the world,
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2576
ali pošto je to signal ostatku sveta,
07:48
they need to hold them in the air.
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2016
moraju da ih drže u vazduhu.
07:50
And I was really intrigued by,
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I bio sam zaista intrigiran
07:53
when we had a female candidate
in the last election,
in the last election,
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kada smo imali kandidatkinju
na poslednjim izborima,
na poslednjim izborima,
način na koji je držala bebe
pre je izgledao ovako,
pre je izgledao ovako,
07:55
the way she held babies
was more like this,
was more like this,
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07:58
which is what babies really like.
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466320
2096
a to je nešto što bebe zaista vole.
08:00
But she of course
didn't need to send the message
didn't need to send the message
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Međutim ona, naravno,
nije morala da šalje poruku
nije morala da šalje poruku
08:02
that she could hold a baby
without dropping it,
without dropping it,
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da zna da drži bebu, a da joj ne ispadne,
08:05
which was what the man was doing.
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473040
1976
a upravo to je radio muškarac.
Dakle, radi se o veoma uobičajenoj taktici
08:07
So this is a very common tactic,
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1856
08:08
and male chimpanzees,
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1976
i mužjaci šimpanze
08:10
they spend a lot of time
currying favor with all sorts of parties
currying favor with all sorts of parties
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3696
provode mnogo vremena
mameći naklonost raznih partija
mameći naklonost raznih partija
08:14
when they are campaigning.
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1400
tokom kampanje.
08:17
Now, what are the privileges and the costs
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Sad, šta su privilegije i koja je cena
08:21
of being an alpha male?
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kada ste alfa mužjak?
08:23
The biggest privilege is females.
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Najveća privilegija su ženke.
08:26
Food is really irrelevant.
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494360
1536
Hrana je zaista nebitna.
08:27
Male chimpanzees
can go a week without food
can go a week without food
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2776
Mužjaci šimpanze
mogu i nedelju dana bez hrane,
mogu i nedelju dana bez hrane,
ako je u blizini ženka u teranju
i ako su seksualno zainteresovani za nju.
i ako su seksualno zainteresovani za nju.
08:30
if there's a female in estrus
and they're sexually interested in her.
and they're sexually interested in her.
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3256
08:34
Food is secondary to sex.
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2256
Hrana je manje važna od seksa.
08:36
And so the male chimpanzees --
186
504280
1776
Stoga mužjaci šimpanze -
08:38
and we evolutionary biologists, of course,
we have an explanation for this,
we have an explanation for this,
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506080
4016
a mi evolutivni biolozi, naravno,
imamo objašnjenje za to,
imamo objašnjenje za to,
08:42
is that sex leads to reproduction,
188
510120
2696
a ono glasi da seks vodi razmnožavanju,
08:44
and reproductive success
is the measure of evolution.
is the measure of evolution.
189
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2536
a reproduktivni uspeh je merilo evolucije.
08:47
That's how everything evolves.
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1735
Na taj način sve evoluira.
08:49
And so if males can enhance
their reproductive success
their reproductive success
191
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2777
Zato, ako mužjaci mogu da unaprede
svoj reproduktivni uspeh
svoj reproduktivni uspeh
08:51
by being high ranking,
192
519960
1416
visokim rangom,
08:53
you get automatically the ambition
to be high ranking in the males.
to be high ranking in the males.
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3936
kod mužjaka automatski dobijate ambiciju
da budu visokorangirani.
da budu visokorangirani.
08:57
So that's the privilege.
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Dakle, radi se o privilegiji.
09:00
The costs, one cost is of course
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3816
Cena, jedna cena je naravno
09:03
that you need to keep your partners happy.
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531880
2056
da morate partnere da održavate srećnima.
09:05
So if you come to power
with the support of an old male,
with the support of an old male,
197
533960
3856
Pa ako dođete na vlast
uz podršku starog mužjaka,
uz podršku starog mužjaka,
09:09
you need to let that old male
mate with females.
mate with females.
198
537840
3016
morate da dozvolite tom starom mužjaku
da se pari sa ženkama.
da se pari sa ženkama.
09:12
If you don't do that,
that old male is going to get mad at you,
that old male is going to get mad at you,
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540880
3040
Ako to ne uradite, taj stari mužjak
će da se naljuti na vas
će da se naljuti na vas
09:15
and you're going to lose him as a partner.
200
543960
2016
i izgubićete ga kao partnera.
09:18
So there's a transaction going on.
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2096
Dakle, tu je na delu razmena.
09:20
If you become alpha male this way,
you need to keep your partners happy.
you need to keep your partners happy.
202
548120
3936
Ako na ovaj način postanete alfa mužjak,
morate da održavate partnere srećnim.
morate da održavate partnere srećnim.
09:24
And so that's one of the costs.
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1496
Dakle, to je jedna od cena.
09:25
The second cost is that
everyone wants your position.
everyone wants your position.
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3416
Druga cena je to što svi žele vaš položaj.
09:29
Alpha male position
is a very important position,
is a very important position,
205
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2856
Položaj alfa mužjaka
je veoma važan položaj
je veoma važan položaj
09:31
and everyone wants to take it from you,
206
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2176
i svi žele da vam ga preotmu,
09:34
and so you constantly
have to watch your back.
have to watch your back.
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2176
te stoga stalno morate da čuvate leđa.
09:36
You have to be extremely vigilant.
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Morate da budete krajnje oprezni.
09:38
For example, you have to
disrupt the coalitions of others
disrupt the coalitions of others
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2696
Na primer, morate
da razbijate tuđe koalicije
da razbijate tuđe koalicije
i to je nešto što mužjaci
šimpanzi poprilično rade.
šimpanzi poprilično rade.
09:40
and that's what male
chimpanzees do quite a bit.
chimpanzees do quite a bit.
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2256
09:43
Divide and rule strategies, they have.
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Imaju strategiju: zavadi pa vladaj.
09:45
And so that's a very stressful situation,
and we actually have data on this.
and we actually have data on this.
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4336
Dakle, radi se o veoma stresnoj situaciji
i zapravo imamo podatke o tome.
i zapravo imamo podatke o tome.
09:49
The data comes from the field,
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1896
Podaci su sa terena,
09:51
from baboons not chimpanzees in this case,
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579400
2616
od babuna, ne šimpanzi u ovom slučaju,
09:54
where they did fecal samples
on the baboons
on the baboons
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2496
gde su analizirali uzorke fekalija babuna
09:56
and they analyzed them
for glucocorticoids.
for glucocorticoids.
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2696
i analizirali su ih radi glukokortikoida.
09:59
And what you see here is a graph
217
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2296
A ovde vidite grafikon
10:01
where you see that the lower ranking
the male baboon is,
the male baboon is,
218
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3936
gde zapažate da što je babun niže rangiran
10:05
the higher is his cortisol level
219
593560
2136
to su mu viši nivoi kortizola
10:07
in the feces,
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u fekalijama,
10:09
but the alpha male, as you see,
221
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ali alfa mužjaci, kao što vidite,
10:11
has just as high a level
as the lowest-ranking males,
as the lowest-ranking males,
222
599360
3136
imaju jednako visok nivo
kao i najniže rangirani mužjaci,
kao i najniže rangirani mužjaci,
10:14
and so you may think that being alpha male
is nice and dandy and is wonderful,
is nice and dandy and is wonderful,
223
602520
4496
te možete da mislite kako je biti
alfa mužjak lepo i bajno i čarobno,
alfa mužjak lepo i bajno i čarobno,
10:19
but it's actually
a very stressful position,
a very stressful position,
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ali zapravo se radi
o veoma stresnom položaju
o veoma stresnom položaju
10:21
and we can demonstrate
that physiologically.
that physiologically.
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2120
i to možemo fiziološki da pokažemo.
10:25
Now, what are the obligations?
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2576
Sad, šta su obaveze?
10:27
And here, for me,
it gets really interesting,
it gets really interesting,
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2496
A ovde, meni, postaje zaista zanimljivo
10:30
and it deviates very much
from your typical image of the alpha male.
from your typical image of the alpha male.
228
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4240
i značajno se razlikuje od toga
kako tipično zamišljate alfa mužjake.
kako tipično zamišljate alfa mužjake.
10:35
The alpha male
has two sorts of obligations.
has two sorts of obligations.
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2240
Alfa mužjak ima dva vida obaveza.
10:38
One is to keep the peace in the group.
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626760
1976
Jedna je da održava mir u grupi.
10:40
We call that the control role,
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1456
Tu ulogu nazivamo kontrolnom,
10:42
to control fights in the group,
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da kontrolišu sukobe u grupi,
10:44
and the second is to be the most empathic,
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2376
a druga je da budu najempatičniji,
10:46
the consoler in chief, basically,
of the nation, so to speak.
of the nation, so to speak.
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2920
u suštini, glavni
utešitelji nacije, takoreći.
utešitelji nacije, takoreći.
10:49
So first of all, keeping the peace.
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1936
Dakle, pre svega, održavanje mira.
10:51
This is a male who stops a fight
between two females.
between two females.
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2936
To je mužjak koji prekida sukob
između dve ženke.
između dve ženke.
10:54
Two females on the left and the right
237
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1816
Dve ženke sleva i zdesna
10:56
have been screaming and yelling
at each other over food,
at each other over food,
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2620
su vrištale i vikale
jedna na drugu zbog hrane
jedna na drugu zbog hrane
10:59
because food is very
important for the females,
important for the females,
239
647204
2492
jer je hrana veoma važna za ženke,
11:01
and so he stops the fight between them
and stands between them like this.
and stands between them like this.
240
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3696
te on prekida svađu između njih
i ovako stoji između njih.
i ovako stoji između njih.
11:05
And it's very interesting to me
that alpha males, when they do this,
that alpha males, when they do this,
241
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3191
A veoma mi je zanimljivo
to što alfa mužjaci, kad to rade,
to što alfa mužjaci, kad to rade,
11:08
they become impartial.
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1240
postaju nepristrasni.
11:10
They don't support their mom
or their best buddy.
or their best buddy.
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2576
Ne podržavaju svoju majku,
niti najboljeg druga.
niti najboljeg druga.
11:13
No, no, they stop fights,
244
661080
2616
Ne, ne, zaustavljaju sukobe
11:15
and they come up
for the underdog in general.
for the underdog in general.
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663720
2136
i uopšteno se zauzimaju za slabijeg.
11:17
And this makes them
extremely popular in the group,
extremely popular in the group,
246
665880
3176
A zbog ovoga su oni
izuzetno popularni u grupi
izuzetno popularni u grupi
11:21
because they provide security
247
669080
1976
jer obezbeđuju sigurnost
11:23
for the lowest-ranking
members of the group.
members of the group.
248
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2496
za najniže rangirane članove grupe.
11:25
And so they become impartial,
249
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1816
Stoga oni postaju nepristrasni,
11:27
which is an unusual condition
for a chimpanzee to be in,
for a chimpanzee to be in,
250
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2656
a to je neuobičajeno stanje za šimpanzu
11:30
because they're usually
very fond of their friends and so on,
very fond of their friends and so on,
251
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2976
jer su one obično veoma naklonjene
svojim prijateljima itd,
svojim prijateljima itd,
11:33
and these alpha males
who are good at this,
who are good at this,
252
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2056
a alfa mužjaci koji su dobri u ovome,
11:35
they can be very effective
at keeping the peace in the group.
at keeping the peace in the group.
253
683200
2896
mogu da budu veoma efikasni
u održavanju mira u grupi.
u održavanju mira u grupi.
11:38
And the second thing they do
is they show empathy for others.
is they show empathy for others.
254
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A drugo što rade
je da pokazuju empatiju za druge.
je da pokazuju empatiju za druge.
11:41
Now, I do an enormous amount
of research on empathy,
of research on empathy,
255
689400
2736
Sad, poprilično se bavim
istraživanjem empatije,
istraživanjem empatije,
11:44
and I don't have time to go into it,
256
692160
1736
i nemam vremena da zalazim u to,
11:45
but empathy is nowadays a topic
that we study in rodents and dogs
that we study in rodents and dogs
257
693920
4056
ali empatija je ovih dana tema
koju izučavamo kod glodara i pasa
koju izučavamo kod glodara i pasa
11:50
and elephants and primates,
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i slonova i primata,
11:52
all sorts of animals.
259
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raznih životinja.
11:54
And what you see here is two bonobos.
260
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A ovde vidite dva bonoboa.
11:56
The one in front
261
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2176
Ova spreda
11:59
has been beaten up in a fight.
262
707040
1456
je pretučena u bici.
12:00
The one in the back puts
her arms around her and consoles her.
her arms around her and consoles her.
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3296
Ona otpozadi stavlja svoje ruke
oko nje da je uteši.
oko nje da je uteši.
12:03
This is also actually how we measure
empathy in young children,
empathy in young children,
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Ovo je zapravo način na koji merimo
empatiju kod dečice,
empatiju kod dečice,
12:07
by looking at how they respond
to distressed individuals.
to distressed individuals.
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posmatrajući kako reaguju
na pojedince u nevolji.
na pojedince u nevolji.
12:11
And high-ranking males,
they do a lot of this.
they do a lot of this.
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A visokorangirani mužjaci to rade često.
12:13
High-ranking males provide an enormous
amount of comfort in the group,
amount of comfort in the group,
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Visokorangirani mužjaci pružaju
ogromnu količinu utehe u grupi
ogromnu količinu utehe u grupi
12:17
and they go to places
where there are earthquakes
where there are earthquakes
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i odlaze na mesta pogođena zemljotresima
12:20
or hurricanes
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ili uraganima
12:22
and they provide comfort.
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i pružaju utehu.
12:23
The pope does this.
The presidents do this.
The presidents do this.
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Papa to radi. Predsednici to rade.
12:26
All the leaders in the world
have to do this job.
have to do this job.
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Sve vođe na svetu moraju
da obavljaju taj posao.
da obavljaju taj posao.
12:28
The queen does it and so on.
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Kraljica to radi, i tako dalje.
12:30
They all have to do this job,
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Svi moraju da rade taj posao,
12:31
so providing consolation,
and that's a very important task.
and that's a very important task.
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dakle, pružanje utehe
je veoma važan zadatak.
je veoma važan zadatak.
12:35
And males who are good at these two,
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A mužjaci koji su dobri u ovome,
12:37
keeping the peace and providing comfort,
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održavanju mira i pružanju utehe,
12:39
they become extremely popular leaders,
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postaju izuzetno popularne vođe,
12:41
and there's actually
some self-interest involved in it.
some self-interest involved in it.
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a tu zapravo postoji lični interes.
12:44
They don't do it just for the group,
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Ne rade to samo radi grupe
12:46
because it also stabilizes their position.
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već i zato što im to učvršćuje položaj.
12:49
The more popular
a male becomes as alpha male
a male becomes as alpha male
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Što popularniji mužjak postane
kao alfa mužjak
kao alfa mužjak
12:52
and the more the rest of them
respects them and looks up to them,
respects them and looks up to them,
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i što ga više ostali poštuju
i ugledaju se na njega,
i ugledaju se na njega,
12:56
the better their position is defended
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bolje im je položaj zaštićen
12:58
in case it's going to be
challenged by somebody else,
challenged by somebody else,
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u slučaju da ga neko drugi izazove
13:01
because then, of course, the whole group
is going to support that male
is going to support that male
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jer će tad, naravno, čitava grupa
da podrži tog mužjaka
da podrži tog mužjaka
13:04
because they want to keep
a leader who is good for them.
a leader who is good for them.
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jer žele da zadrže vođu
koji je dobar prema njima.
koji je dobar prema njima.
13:07
So the group is usually very supportive
of males who are good leaders,
of males who are good leaders,
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Dakle, grupa obično snažno podržava
mužjake koji su dobre vođe
mužjake koji su dobre vođe
13:10
and it's not supportive at all of bullies.
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i uopšte ne podržava nasilnike.
13:13
And when bullies lose their position,
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A kada nasilnici izgube položaj,
13:14
they may end up
in a very bad situation there.
in a very bad situation there.
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mogu da završe u veoma lošoj situaciji.
13:17
This is data actually
on the consolation behavior.
on the consolation behavior.
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Ovo su zapravo podaci
o utešiteljskom ponašanju.
o utešiteljskom ponašanju.
13:20
This is data on consolation
in chimpanzees,
in chimpanzees,
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Ovo su podaci o tešenju kod šimpanzi
13:23
and you see for the medium-
and low-ranking individuals,
and low-ranking individuals,
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i vidite da kod srednjerangiranih
i nižerangiranih jedinki,
i nižerangiranih jedinki,
13:26
the females do more of it than the males.
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ženke to ispoljavaju više od mužjaka.
13:28
This is basically the whole community.
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Ovo je u suštini celokupna zajednica.
13:30
And this is true for all
the mammal studies on empathy
the mammal studies on empathy
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A ovo je tačno u svim
studijama empatije kod sisara
studijama empatije kod sisara
13:33
is that females
have more of it than males.
have more of it than males.
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a to je da je ženke ispoljavaju
više od mužjaka.
više od mužjaka.
13:35
But look at the alpha male.
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Međutim, pogledajte alfa mužjaka.
13:37
The alpha male does
far more than anybody else.
far more than anybody else.
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Alfa mužjak je ispoljava
daleko više od svih drugih.
daleko više od svih drugih.
13:40
And so that's the data on alpha males
being the consoler in chief, basically.
being the consoler in chief, basically.
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Dakle, radi se o podacima o alfa mužjacima
gde su oni glavni utešitelji, u suštini.
gde su oni glavni utešitelji, u suštini.
13:46
The last thing I want to say
is something about alpha females.
is something about alpha females.
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Poslednje što želim da kažem
je nešto o alfa ženkama.
je nešto o alfa ženkama.
13:50
This is a picture of Mama,
the alpha female in the Arnhem zoo
the alpha female in the Arnhem zoo
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Ovo je slika Mame,
alfa ženke iz zoološkog vrta Arnem
alfa ženke iz zoološkog vrta Arnem
13:53
where I used to work,
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gde sam nekad radio,
13:54
who is now all over the internet,
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koja je sada širom interneta,
13:56
I think a hundred million
clicks at the moment,
clicks at the moment,
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mislim da trenutno ima
sto miliona klikova,
sto miliona klikova,
13:58
for a video of her dying at the age of 59,
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nje kako umire u 59. godini,
14:01
which happened last year.
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a to se desilo prošle godine.
14:02
And Mama was an absolute
centrum of the group.
centrum of the group.
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A Mama je bila apsolutno središte grupe.
14:05
So she was not physically capable
of dominating the males.
of dominating the males.
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Dakle, nije fizički bila u stanju
da dominira mužjacima.
da dominira mužjacima.
14:10
She ranked below the males,
but she was the center of the community,
but she was the center of the community,
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Bila je rangirana ispod mužjaka,
ali bila je središte zajednice,
ali bila je središte zajednice,
14:14
and if there was big trouble
in the community,
in the community,
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a ako bi došlo
do velike nevolje u zajednici,
do velike nevolje u zajednici,
14:16
everyone would end up in the arms of Mama.
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svi bi završili u Maminom zagrljaju.
14:18
And so she was a very important figure.
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Dakle, bila je veoma važna figura.
14:20
And so I don't want to minimize
the position of alpha females
the position of alpha females
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Dakle, ne želim da umanjujem
položaj alfa ženki
položaj alfa ženki
14:24
in the chimpanzee group.
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u grupi šimpanzi.
14:25
And then we have a species
that is equally close to us
that is equally close to us
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A zatim imamo vrstu
koja je jednako bliska nama
koja je jednako bliska nama
14:28
as the chimpanzee, the bonobo.
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kao što su šimpanze, bonobo.
14:30
We often forget about the bonobo,
but the bonobos have a matriarchal society
but the bonobos have a matriarchal society
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Često zaboravljamo na bonoboe,
ali bonoboi imaju matrijarhalno društvo
ali bonoboi imaju matrijarhalno društvo
14:35
and the alpha individual
is a female, generally.
is a female, generally.
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i alfa pojedinac je obično ženka.
14:39
Generally, it's a female
who is at the top of the community,
who is at the top of the community,
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Obično je ženka ta
koja je na vrhu zajednice,
koja je na vrhu zajednice,
i mnogo nam je manje poznato
kako se to postiže
kako se to postiže
14:42
and we know much less
about how this is done
about how this is done
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14:44
and how they get to that position,
and what they do with it,
and what they do with it,
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i kako stižu do položaja i šta rade s njim
14:47
because we know much less
about bonobos in general.
about bonobos in general.
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jer uopšte mnogo manje znamo o bonoboima.
14:50
But I do want to emphasize
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Ali želim da naglasim
14:51
that the alpha in a group
doesn't need to be a male,
doesn't need to be a male,
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da alfa u grupi ne mora da bude mužjak
14:55
and that actually in one
of our close relatives, it is a female.
of our close relatives, it is a female.
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i da je zapravo kod jednog našeg
bliskog pretka to ženka.
bliskog pretka to ženka.
14:59
So the message I want to leave you with
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Dakle, poruka koju želim da vam ostavim
15:01
is that if you are looking
at men in our society
at men in our society
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je da, ako tražite muškarce u društvu
15:07
who are the boss of, let's say,
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koji su gazde, recimo,
15:09
a family or a business
or Washington or whatever,
or Washington or whatever,
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porodice ili posla
ili Vašingtona ili bilo čega,
ili Vašingtona ili bilo čega,
15:12
you call them alpha male,
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ako ih nazovete alfa mužjacima,
15:15
you should not insult chimpanzees
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nemojte da vređate šimpanze
15:17
by using the wrong label.
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upotrebom pogrešne etikete.
15:19
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
15:20
You should not call a bully an alpha male.
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Ne nazivajte siledžiju alfa mužjakom.
15:23
Someone who is big and strong
and intimidates and insults everyone
and intimidates and insults everyone
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Neko ko je velik i snažan
i zastrašuje i vređa svakoga
i zastrašuje i vređa svakoga
15:27
is not necessarily an alpha male.
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nije nužno alfa mužjak.
15:29
An alpha male has all sorts of qualities,
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Alfa mužjak ima razne kvalitete,
15:31
and I have seen bully
alpha males in chimpanzees,
alpha males in chimpanzees,
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i viđao sam kod šimpanzi
siledžije kao alfa mužjake,
siledžije kao alfa mužjake,
15:34
they do occur,
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dešavaju se,
15:35
but most of the ones that we have
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ali većina koje imamo
15:38
have leadership capacities
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imaju kapacitete predvodništva
15:40
and are integrated in their community,
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i integrisani su u svoje zajednice,
15:42
and, like Amos at the end,
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i, poput Ejmosa na kraju,
15:44
they are loved and respected,
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vole ih i poštuju,
15:45
and so it's a very different situation
than you may think.
than you may think.
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te je to veoma različit položaj
nego što biste pomislili.
nego što biste pomislili.
15:48
And I thank you.
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I ja vam zahvaljujem.
15:50
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Frans de Waal - PrimatologistFrans de Waal studies primate social behavior -- how they fight and reconcile, share and cooperate.
Why you should listen
Dutch/American biologist and ethologist Frans de Waal draws parallels between primate and human behavior, from peacemaking and morality to culture. Looking at human society through the lens of animal behavior, de Waal's first book, Chimpanzee Politics (1982), compares the schmoozing and scheming of chimpanzees involved in power struggles with that of human politicians. Named one of the 100 Most Influential People Today by Time Magazine, de Waal has written hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific articles, and his popular books have been translated in over 20 languages. He is a professor in Emory University's psychology department and Director of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center, in Atlanta. His next book is on animal and human emotions, entitled Mama's Last Hug (Norton, 2019).
Frans de Waal | Speaker | TED.com