ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Manwar Ali - Peace activist
A former committed pioneer of violent jihad, Manwar Ali draws on his experience and deepening understanding of Islam to prevent radicalisation and extremism.

Why you should listen

Manwar Ali (also known as Abu Muntasir) is one of the few scholars in the UK who has been directly involved in jihad. For around fifteen years he radicalised, recruited, fundraised and fought in Afghanistan, Kashmir and Burma. Now he draws on this experience in his work with the UK's Home Office and Crown Prosecution Service.  

Ali is a Muslim scholar who teaches Islam to restore balance, enhance human values and address issues of extremism through education, social projects, charitable events and open discussion. He works to foster peaceful coexistence through mutual understanding, good-neighborliness and caring engagement.

Ali founded the UK Muslim educational charity JIMAS and pioneered Zakat distribution in the UK. For more than 30 years he has had extensive experience in teaching Islam. He has helped make British Islam relevant and important to life now, preparing many students for life and leading the way in practicing civic engagement as an Imam.

Ali holds a B.Sc. (Hons) and M.Sc. in Computer Science, an MA in Islamic Studies and a Diploma in Arabic.

More profile about the speaker
Manwar Ali | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxExeter

Manwar Ali: Inside the mind of a former radical jihadist

阿里: 窺探前激進聖戰士的內心

Filmed:
2,292,617 views

「有很長一段時間,我為死亡而活。」阿里說。阿里曾是激進聖戰士,曾於 1980 年代在中東和亞洲參與暴力武裝運動。在這動人心弦的演講中,他透過自己的激進經驗,強而有力地呼籲認為暴力血腥是高尚美德的伊斯蘭主義族群:放下憤怒與仇恨吧!他說,何不培養自己的心思,發現別人身上的真善美。
- Peace activist
A former committed pioneer of violent jihad, Manwar Ali draws on his experience and deepening understanding of Islam to prevent radicalisation and extremism. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Today今天 I stand before you
as a man who lives生活 life to the full充分
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今天我以能在此時此刻
徹底享受人生的身分
00:16
in the here and now.
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站在你們面前。
00:19
But for a long time,
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但曾有很長一段期間,
00:20
I lived生活 for death死亡.
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我為死亡而活。
00:23
I was a young年輕 man who believed相信
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我年少時相信
00:25
that jihad討伐異教徒 is to be understood了解
in the language語言 of force and violence暴力.
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所謂聖戰即代表了武力及暴力。
00:32
I tried試著 to right wrongs冤屈
through通過 power功率 and aggression侵略.
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我試著透過力量和侵略
修正他人的錯誤。
00:37
I had deep concerns關注
for the suffering痛苦 of others其他
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我深切地關心正在受苦受難的旁人,
00:42
and a strong強大 desire慾望
to help and bring帶來 relief浮雕 to them.
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並強烈地想幫助他們解脫。
00:49
I thought violent暴力 jihad討伐異教徒 was noble高貴,
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我認為暴力性的聖戰
是一種高貴、
00:52
chivalrous
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驍勇的行為,
00:53
and the best最好 way to help.
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也是幫助他人的最佳解藥。
00:57
At a time when so many許多 of our people --
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在我們族群之中很多人──
00:59
young年輕 people especially特別 --
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特別是年輕人──
01:00
are at risk風險 of radicalization激進
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透過像是蓋達、
01:03
through通過 groups like al-Qaeda基地組織,
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伊斯蘭國或其他組織,
01:05
Islamic清真 State and others其他,
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因而處在激進化的邊緣,
01:07
when these groups are claiming自稱
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當這些組織聲稱
01:09
that their horrific可怕的 brutality殘酷
and violence暴力 are true真正 jihad討伐異教徒,
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他們的暴行才是真正的聖戰之時,
01:14
I want to say that their idea理念
of jihad討伐異教徒 is wrong錯誤 --
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我得說他們對聖戰
這兩個字的概念有誤──
01:18
completely全然 wrong錯誤 --
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大錯特錯──
01:20
as was mine, then.
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就像是那時的我所認為的一樣。
01:23
Jihad討伐異教徒 means手段 to strive努力 to one's那些 utmost.
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聖戰代表要盡一個人的全力。
01:26
It includes包括 exertion用力 and spirituality靈性,
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這包含了各層面的功修、
01:29
self-purification自淨
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自我淨化,
01:31
and devotion忠誠.
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以及奉獻精神。
01:34
It refers to positive transformation轉型
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聖戰代表了透過學習、智慧
01:37
through通過 learning學習, wisdom智慧
and remembrance紀念 of God.
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和紀念真主的正向轉型。
01:41
The word jihad討伐異教徒 stands站立
for all those meanings含義 as a whole整個.
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聖戰這一詞概括了前述的所有概念。
01:46
Jihad討伐異教徒 may可能 at times
take the form形成 of fighting戰鬥,
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聖戰有時的確透過打鬥的形式,
01:51
but only sometimes有時,
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但只是有時候,
01:53
under strict嚴格 conditions條件,
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存在於嚴格的條件、
01:56
within rules規則 and limits範圍.
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規則與限制之下。
01:59
In Islam伊斯蘭教,
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伊斯蘭教相信,
02:01
the benefit效益 of an act法案 must必須 outweigh超過
the harm危害 or hardship it entails限嗣繼承.
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一個行為帶來的好處,
必須大於其將帶來的傷害。
02:07
More importantly重要的,
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更重要的是,
02:09
the verses經文 in the Koran可蘭經
that are connected連接的 to jihad討伐異教徒 or fighting戰鬥
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可蘭經中對於聖戰或打鬥的描述,
02:13
do not cancel取消 out the verses經文
that talk about forgiveness饒恕,
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不能抵消經文中對於饒恕、
02:19
benevolence
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仁愛、
02:20
or patience忍耐.
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以及耐心的價值。
02:25
But now I believe that there are
no circumstances情況 on earth地球
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現在我相信地球上沒有任何地方
02:29
where violent暴力 jihad討伐異教徒 is permissible可允許的,
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會允許暴力性的聖戰,
02:32
because it will lead to greater更大 harm危害.
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因為這只會帶來更大的傷害。
02:37
But now the idea理念 of jihad討伐異教徒
has been hijacked劫持.
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但如今聖戰的定義被劫持去了。
02:40
It has been perverted變態
to mean violent暴力 struggle鬥爭
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它反常地代表了暴力性的鬥爭:
02:43
wherever哪裡 Muslims穆斯林
are undergoing經歷 difficulties困難,
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每當穆斯林遇到困難,
02:46
and turned轉身 into terrorism恐怖主義
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就會因為像是蓋達、
02:48
by fascistic法西斯 Islamists伊斯蘭教徒 like al-Qaeda基地組織,
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伊斯蘭國等法西斯伊斯蘭教徒
02:51
Islamic清真 State and others其他.
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而變成恐怖份子。
02:54
But I have come to understand理解
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但我現在瞭解了,
02:56
that true真正 jihad討伐異教徒
means手段 striving努力 to the utmost
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真正的聖戰代表了盡全力
03:00
to strengthen加強 and live生活
those qualities氣質 which哪一個 God loves:
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加強並活出真主所喜愛的特質:
03:04
honesty誠實, trustworthiness誠信,
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正直、信賴、
03:06
compassion同情, benevolence,
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同情、仁愛、
03:08
reliability可靠性, respect尊重,
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可靠、尊重、
03:10
truthfulness真實性 --
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和真誠──
03:12
human人的 values that so many許多 of us share分享.
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這都是眾人所共享的價值觀。
03:18
I was born天生 in Bangladesh孟加拉國,
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我出生於孟加拉,
03:20
but grew成長 up mostly大多 in England英國.
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但多數時間在英國長大。
03:22
And I went to school學校 here.
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也在這裡就學。
03:24
My father父親 was an academic學術的,
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我父親是位學者,
03:26
and we were in the UK聯合王國 through通過 his work.
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我們因為他的工作來到英國。
03:30
In 1971 we were in Bangladesh孟加拉國
when everything changed.
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1971 年我們在孟加拉,
一切風雲變色。
03:36
The War戰爭 of Independence獨立
impacted影響 upon us terribly可怕,
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獨立戰爭嚴重衝擊我們,
03:39
pitting點蝕 family家庭 against反對 family家庭,
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造成家家對立,
03:41
neighbor鄰居 against反對 neighbor鄰居.
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鄰里反目成仇。
03:43
And at the age年齡 of 12 I experienced有經驗的 war戰爭,
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我 12 歲時就經歷了戰爭、
03:46
destitution窮困 in my family家庭,
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家道中落、
03:48
the deaths死亡 of 22
of my relatives親戚們 in horrible可怕 ways方法,
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22 位親戚慘死,
03:52
as well as the murder謀殺 of my elder長老 brother哥哥.
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同時我哥哥被謀殺。
03:59
I witnessed目擊 killing謀殺 ...
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我見證了殺戮…
04:03
animals動物 feeding饋送 on corpses屍體 in the streets街道,
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動物啃食街道上的屍體,
04:05
starvation飢餓 all around me,
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大家莫不飢餓難耐,
04:07
wanton放肆, horrific可怕的 violence暴力 --
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還有可怕的暴行肆虐——
04:09
senseless無意義 violence暴力.
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無謂的暴行。
04:14
I was a young年輕 man,
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我那時還年輕,
04:16
teenager青少年, fascinated入迷 by ideas思路.
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為各種想法著迷。
04:19
I wanted to learn學習,
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我想學習,
04:20
but I could not go to school學校
for four years年份.
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但我整整 4 年無法就學。
04:24
After the War戰爭 of Independence獨立,
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獨立戰爭之後,
04:26
my father父親 was put in prison監獄
for two and a half years年份,
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我父親坐了兩年半的牢。
04:29
and I used to visit訪問 him
every一切 week in prison監獄,
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我每個禮拜都去探監,
04:33
and homeschooled在家上學 myself.
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並在家自學。
04:36
My father父親 was released發布 in 1973
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我父親於 1973 年被釋放,
04:39
and he fled逃離 to England英國 as a refugee難民,
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他以難民的身分逃去英國,
04:42
and we soon不久 followed其次 him.
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我們之後也跟著他去。
04:44
I was 17.
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我那年 17 歲。
04:46
So these experiences經驗 gave me
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這些經驗
04:48
a sharp尖銳 awareness意識 of the atrocities暴行
and injustices不公正 in the world世界.
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讓我清楚地意識到
世界上的暴行和不公不義。
04:54
And I had a strong強大 desire慾望 --
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而我產生強烈的慾望──
04:56
a very keen敏銳, deep desire慾望 --
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深至心坎的強烈慾望──
04:58
to right wrongs冤屈
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要修正錯誤,
04:59
and help the victims受害者 of oppression壓迫.
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並幫助受壓迫的人們。
05:02
While studying研究 at college學院 in the UK聯合王國,
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當我在英國讀大學時,
05:04
I met會見 others其他 who showed顯示 me
how I could channel渠道 that desire慾望
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我遇到了能教我實現願望的人,
05:10
and help through通過 my religion宗教.
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他們將透過我的信仰幫忙。
05:13
And I was radicalized激進 --
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而我就被激進化了──
05:15
enough足夠 to consider考慮 violence暴力 correct正確,
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這足以將暴力合理化,
05:19
even a virtue美德 under certain某些 circumstances情況.
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在一些情況下,
甚至認為這是種美德。
05:24
So I became成為 involved參與
in the jihad討伐異教徒 in Afghanistan阿富汗.
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所以我參加了在阿富汗的聖戰。
05:27
I wanted to protect保護 the Muslim穆斯林 Afghan阿富汗
population人口 against反對 the Soviet蘇聯 army軍隊.
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我想保護阿富汗的穆斯林人口
對抗蘇聯軍隊。
05:32
And I thought that was jihad討伐異教徒:
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我認為這就是聖戰:
05:35
my sacred神聖 duty義務,
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我的天職,
05:36
which哪一個 would be rewarded獎勵 by God.
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將為真主所讚揚。
05:43
I became成為 a preacher牧師.
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我成了傳教者。
05:47
I was one of the pioneers開拓者
of violent暴力 jihad討伐異教徒 in the UK聯合王國.
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我是英國暴力聖戰的先鋒。
05:53
I recruited應徵,
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我招募、
05:54
I raised上調 funds資金, I trained熟練.
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我集資、我訓練。
05:57
I confused困惑 true真正 jihad討伐異教徒
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我將真正的聖戰,
05:59
with this perversion變態
as presented呈現 by the fascist法西斯 Islamists伊斯蘭教徒 --
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和法西斯伊斯蘭教徒
所提出的偏差聖戰搞混了。
06:05
these people who use the idea理念 of jihad討伐異教徒
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這些人假聖戰之名
06:08
to justify辯解 their lust情慾 for power功率,
authority權威 and control控制 on earth地球:
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將他們對一統天下的慾望合理化:
06:13
a perversion變態 perpetuated延續 today今天
by fascist法西斯 Islamist伊斯蘭 groups
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這種偏差思想
被激進伊斯蘭組織延續至今,
06:18
like al-Qaeda基地組織, Islamic清真 State and others其他.
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像是蓋達、伊斯蘭國等。
06:22
For a period of around 15 years年份,
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大概有 15 年的時間,
06:25
I fought戰鬥 for short periods of time
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我除了在阿富汗,
06:30
in Kashmir克什米爾 and Burma緬甸,
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還在喀什米爾和緬甸
06:32
besides除了 Afghanistan阿富汗.
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做短暫的攻擊。
06:37
Our aim目標 was to remove去掉 the invaders入侵者,
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我們的目標是驅除侵略者,
06:40
to bring帶來 relief浮雕 to the oppressed壓迫 victims受害者
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解放受壓迫的人,
06:44
and of course課程 to establish建立
an Islamic清真 state,
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當然還有建立伊斯蘭版圖,
06:48
a caliphate哈里發 for God's rule規則.
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一個由真主統治的哈里發國。
06:50
And I did this openly公然.
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我公開地做這些事。
06:53
I didn't break打破 any laws法律.
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我沒犯任何一條法律。
06:56
I was proud驕傲 and grateful感激 to be British英國的 --
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我以身為英國人為榮──
06:59
I still am.
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至今我仍然如此。
07:01
And I bore no hostility敵意
against反對 this, my country國家,
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過去我對這裡,
對我的國家沒有敵意,
07:05
nor也不 enmity敵意 towards
the non-Muslim非穆斯林 citizens公民,
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對非穆斯林也沒有敵意,
07:09
and I still don't.
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我現在還是沒有。
07:13
During one battle戰鬥 in Afghanistan阿富汗,
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在阿富汗的一次打鬥當中,
07:16
some British英國的 men男人 and I
formed形成 a special特別 bond
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我和一些英國人
對一位 15 歲的阿富汗男孩
07:19
with a 15-year-old-歲 Afghani阿富汗 boy男孩,
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產生了特別的連結。
07:22
Abdullah阿卜杜拉,
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他叫阿布杜拉,
07:24
an innocent無辜, loving愛心 and lovable可愛 kid孩子
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是個純真、討喜的孩子,
07:27
who was always eager急於 to please.
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永遠都是那麼願意提供協助。
07:30
He was poor較差的.
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他很窮。
07:32
And boys男孩 like him
did menial粗重 tasks任務 in the camp.
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像他一樣的男孩在營區
都負責卑微的工作,
07:36
And he seemed似乎 happy快樂 enough足夠,
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但他看起來心滿意足,
07:38
but I couldn't不能 help wonder奇蹟 --
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但我不禁想到
07:39
his parents父母 must必須 have missed錯過 him dearly深深地.
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他的家長一定非常想念他。
07:43
And they must必須 have dreamt夢見
about a better future未來 for him.
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他們也一定曾為他
夢想過更好的未來。
07:49
A victim受害者 of circumstance環境
caught抓住 up in a war戰爭,
141
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這是戰爭下的受害者,
07:52
cruelly殘酷 thrust推力 upon him
142
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殘酷的社會條件
07:54
by the cruel殘忍 circumstances情況 of the time.
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無情地襲擊至他身上。
08:00
One day I picked採摘的 up this unexploded
mortar砂漿 shell貝殼 in a trench,
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一天我在壕溝撿起
一個未爆的迫擊砲彈,
08:06
and I had it deposited沉積
in a makeshift湊合的 mud hut棚屋 lab實驗室.
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並將之放在一個
臨時搭建的土屋實驗室,
08:11
And I went out on a short,
pointless無意義 skirmish前哨戰 --
146
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然後就出去打一場
毫無意義的小戰鬥──
08:14
always pointless無意義,
147
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爭鬥一直以來都毫無意義──
08:16
And I came來了 back a few少數 hours小時 later後來
to discover發現 he was dead.
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幾個小時後我回來,男孩已經死了。
08:21
He had tried試著 to recover恢復
explosives炸藥 from that shell貝殼.
149
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他試圖取出裡面的炸藥,
08:23
It exploded爆炸, and he died死亡 a violent暴力 death死亡,
150
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然後就被炸死了,
08:27
blown to bits by the very same相同 device設備
that had proved證實 harmless無害 to me.
151
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被我認為無害的那個裝置
炸得灰飛煙滅。
08:33
So I started開始 to question.
152
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我開始問,
08:36
How did his death死亡 serve服務 any purpose目的?
153
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他的死有任何意義嗎?
08:42
Why did he die and I lived生活?
154
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為什麼他死了我卻活了下來?
08:45
I carried攜帶的 on.
155
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日子繼續下去。
08:47
I fought戰鬥 in Kashmir克什米爾.
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我在喀什米爾打仗。
08:48
I also recruited應徵 for the Philippines菲律賓,
157
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我也為菲律賓、
08:51
Bosnia波斯尼亞 and Chechnya車臣.
158
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波士尼亞和車臣招募新成員。
08:54
And the questions問題 grew成長.
159
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然而疑問愈來愈多。
08:57
Later後來 in Burma緬甸,
160
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之後在緬甸,
08:59
I came來了 across橫過 Rohingya羅興亞人 fighters戰士,
161
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我遇到羅興亞人戰士,
09:02
who were barely僅僅 teenagers青少年,
162
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他們幾乎都是青少年,
09:04
born天生 and brought up in the jungle叢林,
163
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在叢林裡長大成人,
09:06
carrying攜帶 machine guns槍砲
and grenade手榴彈 launchers發射.
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他們帶著機槍和手榴彈。
09:12
I met會見 two 13-year-olds- 年的孩子
with soft柔軟的 manners禮貌 and gentle溫和 voices聲音.
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我遇到兩個 13 歲,
彬彬有禮、口氣平順的孩子。
09:18
Looking at me,
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他們看著我,
09:20
they begged me
to take them away to England英國.
167
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求我帶他們去英國。
09:28
They simply只是 wanted to go to school學校 --
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他們只是單純地想上學──
09:31
that was their dream夢想.
169
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這對他們來說是夢想。
09:36
My family家庭 --
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我的家人──
09:37
my children孩子 of the same相同 age年齡 --
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跟他們同齡的小孩──
09:39
were living活的 at home in the UK聯合王國,
172
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都住在英國,
09:42
going to school學校,
173
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正常就學,
09:43
living活的 a safe安全 life.
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生活安穩。
09:45
And I couldn't不能 help wonder奇蹟
175
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我不禁納悶,
09:47
how much these young年輕 boys男孩
must必須 have spoken to one another另一個
176
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有多少這樣的男孩,得跟其他人
09:50
about their dreams for such這樣 a life.
177
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表露他們對這種生活的渴望。
09:54
Victims受害者 of circumstances情況:
178
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時局下的受害者:
09:58
these two young年輕 boys男孩,
179
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這兩個男孩,
10:00
sleeping睡眠 rough on the ground地面,
looking up at the stars明星,
180
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躺在粗糙的地上,仰望繁星,
10:03
cynically玩世不恭 exploited利用 by their leaders領導者
181
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被他們的領導者肆無忌憚的利用,
10:05
for their personal個人 lust情慾
for glory榮耀 and power功率.
182
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只為了滿足他們
對權力和虛榮的慾望。
10:09
I soon不久 witnessed目擊 boys男孩 like them
killing謀殺 one another另一個
183
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我不久就見到這些男孩
10:13
in conflicts衝突 between之間 rival對手 groups.
184
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因為敵對群體的紛爭自相殘殺。
10:17
And it was the same相同 everywhere到處 ...
185
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而且到處都一樣──
10:21
Afghanistan阿富汗, Kashmir克什米爾, Burma緬甸,
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阿富汗、喀什米爾、緬甸
10:23
Philippines菲律賓, Chechnya車臣;
187
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菲律賓、車臣;
10:26
petty小氣 warlords軍閥 got the young年輕
and vulnerable弱勢 to kill one another另一個
188
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小軍閥讓年輕人和弱勢者
以聖戰之名自相殘殺。
10:30
in the name名稱 of jihad討伐異教徒.
189
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10:34
Muslims穆斯林 against反對 Muslims穆斯林.
190
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穆斯林對抗穆斯林。
10:37
Not protecting保護 anyone任何人
against反對 invaders入侵者 or occupiers佔領者;
191
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既不是對抗入侵者或占領者;
10:42
not bringing使 relief浮雕 to the oppressed壓迫.
192
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2000
也沒有解救受壓迫的人民。
10:46
Children孩子 being存在 used,
193
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小孩被利用,
10:47
cynically玩世不恭 exploited利用;
194
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肆無忌憚的剝削;
10:49
people dying垂死 in conflicts衝突
195
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1936
人們死於衝突,
10:51
which哪一個 I was supporting支持
in the name名稱 of jihad討伐異教徒.
196
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而我以聖戰之名支援這些紛爭。
10:56
And it still carries攜帶 on today今天.
197
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時至今日這些情況還是存在。
11:03
Realizing實現 that the violent暴力 jihad討伐異教徒
198
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我驚覺到我在海外
11:07
I had engaged訂婚 in abroad國外
199
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所參與的暴力聖戰,
11:13
was so different不同 --
200
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跟我內心所想的完全不同。
11:17
such這樣 a chasm裂口 between之間
what I had experienced有經驗的
201
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我所經歷的,和我認為的神聖天職
11:22
and what I thought was sacred神聖 duty義務 --
202
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有極大的斷層。
11:24
I had to reflect反映
on my activities活動 here in the UK聯合王國.
203
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我得反思我在英國這裡的行為。
11:30
I had to consider考慮 my preaching說教,
204
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我得承認我的傳教、
11:32
recruiting招聘, fund-raising集資,
205
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1536
招募、集資、
11:33
training訓練,
206
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訓練,
11:35
but most importantly重要的, radicalizing激進 --
207
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還有最重要的,激進化──
11:38
sending發出 young年輕 people to fight鬥爭 and die
208
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也就是送年輕人去戰死
11:40
as I was doing --
209
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這些事──
11:42
all totally完全 wrong錯誤.
210
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大錯特錯。
11:47
So I got involved參與
in violent暴力 jihad討伐異教徒 in the mid '80s,
211
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我在 80 年代中期參與暴力聖戰,
11:51
starting開始 with Afghanistan阿富汗.
212
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從阿富汗發跡,
11:54
And by the time I finished
it was in the year 2000.
213
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而這一切止於 2000 年。
11:59
I was completely全然 immersed沉浸 in it.
214
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我那時沉浸在聖戰之中。
12:00
All around me people supported支持的,
215
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1936
我身邊的人都支持我、
12:02
applauded叫好,
216
710600
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贊同我、
12:03
even celebrated著名 what
we were doing in their name名稱.
217
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甚至慶祝我們的所作所為。
12:08
But by the time I learned學到了 to get out,
218
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但當我覺醒時,
12:10
completely全然 disillusioned幻滅 in the year 2000,
219
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2616
在 2000 年徹底幻滅時,
12:12
15 years年份 had passed通過.
220
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已經 15 年過去了。
12:17
So what goes wrong錯誤?
221
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哪裡出錯了?
12:20
We were so busy talking about virtue美德,
222
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我們忙著談論美德,
12:25
and we were blinded失明 by a cause原因.
223
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3160
並被理想所盲目。
12:32
And we did not give ourselves我們自己 a chance機會
to develop發展 a virtuous character字符.
224
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4280
我們並沒有給自己機會
發展美善的性格。
12:37
We told ourselves我們自己
we were fighting戰鬥 for the oppressed壓迫,
225
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我們告訴自己
這是在為受苦受難的人奮鬥,
12:41
but these were unwinnable無法取勝 wars戰爭.
226
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2200
但這是場贏不了的戰爭。
12:45
We became成為 the very instrument儀器
through通過 which哪一個 more deaths死亡 occurred發生,
227
753720
3616
我們成為死神的工具,
12:49
complicit同謀 in causing造成 further進一步 misery苦難
228
757360
3736
為了少數殘暴者的自私自利,
12:53
for the selfish自私 benefit效益 of the cruel殘忍 few少數.
229
761120
2600
製造更多的悲劇。
13:04
So over time,
230
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時間流逝,
13:05
a very long time,
231
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1200
過了好一陣子,
13:08
I opened打開 my eyes眼睛.
232
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1200
我睜開雙眼,
13:11
I began開始 to dare
233
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我開始有勇氣
13:15
to face面對 the truth真相,
234
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1656
面對真相,
13:16
to think,
235
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1200
開始思考,
13:19
to face面對 the hard questions問題.
236
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2136
開始面對艱難的問題。
13:21
I got in touch觸摸 with my soul靈魂.
237
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2200
我與我內心的靈魂接觸。
13:34
What have I learned學到了?
238
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那我學到了什麼?
13:36
That people who engage從事
in violent暴力 jihadism伊斯蘭聖戰,
239
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參加暴力聖戰的人、
13:42
that people who are drawn
to these types類型 of extremisms極端主義,
240
810960
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墮入極端主義的人,
13:46
are not that different不同 to everyone大家 else其他.
241
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2200
其實並沒有與我們相差甚遠。
13:49
But I believe such這樣 people can change更改.
242
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2800
我相信那些人是可以改變的。
13:54
They can regain恢復 their hearts心中
and restore恢復 them
243
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2856
他們能重拾本心,
13:57
by filling填充 them
with human人的 values that heal癒合.
244
825000
3060
能用療傷止痛的人性價值
填補心中的缺口。
14:07
When we ignore忽視 the realities現實,
245
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當我們忽略現實,
14:09
we discover發現 that we accept接受 what
we are told without critical危急 reflection反射.
246
837240
5760
我們會毫無疑問地
接受被告知的東西。
14:17
And we ignore忽視 the gifts禮品 and advantages優點
that many許多 of us would cherish珍視
247
845640
3776
我們也會忽視
眾所珍愛的天賦和優勢,
14:21
even for a single moment時刻 in their lives生活.
248
849440
2280
即便那僅占了生命的一小部分。
14:28
I engaged訂婚 in actions行動
I thought were correct正確.
249
856400
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我做了我認為對的事。
14:33
But now I began開始 to question
how I knew知道 what I knew知道.
250
861760
4000
但我現在開始質疑
我怎麼知道我知道什麼。
14:39
I endlessly不休 told others其他
to accept接受 the truth真相,
251
867840
3696
我無止盡地要眾人接受真理,
14:43
but I failed失敗 to give doubt懷疑
its rightful合法的 place地點.
252
871560
3720
但我忘了質疑它的合宜性。
14:52
This conviction定罪 that people can change更改
is rooted in my experience經驗,
253
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4856
人能改變的信念
根深蒂固在我的經驗中,
14:57
my own擁有 journey旅程.
254
885800
1200
也在我人生的旅途中。
15:00
Through通過 wide reading,
255
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1896
透過廣泛閱讀、
15:02
reflecting反映,
256
890440
1200
反省、
15:04
contemplation沉思, self-knowledge自知之明,
257
892160
1896
沉思、自我認知,
15:06
I discovered發現,
258
894080
1216
我發現,我了解到
15:07
I realized實現 that Islamists'伊斯蘭主義者 world世界
of us and them is false and unjust不公.
259
895320
5640
我們與他們的伊斯蘭主義者世界
竟是如此錯誤與不公不義。
15:16
Through通過 considering考慮 the uncertainties不確定性
in all that we had asserted斷言,
260
904800
3680
透過反思所有我們主張的事實,
15:21
to the inviolable不可侵犯 truths真理,
261
909400
1616
反思我們認為不可侵犯、
15:23
incontestable無可爭辯 truths真理,
262
911040
1400
無庸置疑的事實,
15:26
I developed發達 a more nuanced細緻入微 understanding理解.
263
914960
2880
我產生了更深入細微的理解。
15:36
I realized實現 that in a world世界 crowded
with variation變異 and contradiction矛盾,
264
924480
4480
我發現在這充滿歧異與矛盾的世界,
15:41
foolish preachers傳教士,
265
929920
1216
愚昧的傳教者,
15:43
only foolish preachers傳教士
like I used to be,
266
931160
3016
也只有像過去的我
這種愚昧的傳教者,
15:46
see no paradox悖論 in the myths神話 and fictions小說
they use to assert斷言 authenticity真偽.
267
934200
5360
才會看不出他們所斷言的
真相其實充滿矛盾。
15:53
So I understood了解 the vital重要
importance重要性 of self-knowledge自知之明,
268
941120
4536
我理解了自我認知、
15:57
political政治 awareness意識
269
945680
1200
政治意識、
16:00
and the necessity必要性
for a deep and wide understanding理解
270
948000
4656
及深入理解我們所作所為的必要性,
16:04
of our commitments承諾 and our actions行動,
271
952680
2456
及這些會如何影響他人,
16:07
how they affect影響 others其他.
272
955160
1320
是何其的重要。
16:10
So my plea懇求 today今天 to everyone大家,
273
958520
1456
所以我今天向大家懇求,
16:12
especially特別 those who sincerely誠摯
believe in Islamist伊斯蘭 jihadism伊斯蘭聖戰 ...
274
960000
4480
特別是真誠相信伊斯蘭聖戰的人,
16:18
refuse垃圾 dogmatic武斷的 authority權威;
275
966480
2400
要拒絕武斷性的權威;
16:22
let go of anger憤怒, hatred and violence暴力;
276
970360
3680
放下憤怒、仇恨與暴戾之氣;
16:27
learn學習 to right wrongs冤屈
277
975120
1656
學習不要以報復殘虐、
16:28
without even attempting嘗試 to justify辯解
cruel殘忍, unjust不公 and futile無用 behavior行為.
278
976800
5070
不公正的行為來修正錯誤。
16:36
Instead代替 create創建 a few少數
beautiful美麗 and useful有用 things
279
984840
3336
去創造一些美麗實用的事物吧,
16:40
that outlive活得比 us.
280
988200
1200
讓我們淵遠流長,
16:45
Approach途徑 the world世界, life,
281
993200
1856
邁向嶄新世界,
16:47
with love.
282
995080
1200
一個充滿愛的世界。
16:50
Learn學習 to develop發展
283
998000
1216
學習發展、
16:51
or cultivate培育 your hearts心中
284
999240
1256
或培育你的心思,
16:52
to see goodness善良, beauty美女 and truth真相
in others其他 and in the world世界.
285
1000520
3360
在別人身上或這個世界發現真善美。
16:57
That way we do matter
more to ourselves我們自己 ...
286
1005000
2520
如此一來,我們為了自己、
17:01
to each other,
287
1009240
1200
為了他人、
17:03
to our communities社區
288
1011160
1216
為了社會、
17:04
and, for me, to God.
289
1012400
1480
對我來說,也為了真主,
就盡了份力。
17:07
This is jihad討伐異教徒 --
290
1015000
1616
這就是聖戰──
17:08
my true真正 jihad討伐異教徒.
291
1016640
1200
我真正的聖戰。
17:10
Thank you.
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1216
謝謝大家。
17:12
(Applause掌聲)
293
1020160
2440
(掌聲)
Translated by nr chan
Reviewed by Regina Chu

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Manwar Ali - Peace activist
A former committed pioneer of violent jihad, Manwar Ali draws on his experience and deepening understanding of Islam to prevent radicalisation and extremism.

Why you should listen

Manwar Ali (also known as Abu Muntasir) is one of the few scholars in the UK who has been directly involved in jihad. For around fifteen years he radicalised, recruited, fundraised and fought in Afghanistan, Kashmir and Burma. Now he draws on this experience in his work with the UK's Home Office and Crown Prosecution Service.  

Ali is a Muslim scholar who teaches Islam to restore balance, enhance human values and address issues of extremism through education, social projects, charitable events and open discussion. He works to foster peaceful coexistence through mutual understanding, good-neighborliness and caring engagement.

Ali founded the UK Muslim educational charity JIMAS and pioneered Zakat distribution in the UK. For more than 30 years he has had extensive experience in teaching Islam. He has helped make British Islam relevant and important to life now, preparing many students for life and leading the way in practicing civic engagement as an Imam.

Ali holds a B.Sc. (Hons) and M.Sc. in Computer Science, an MA in Islamic Studies and a Diploma in Arabic.

More profile about the speaker
Manwar Ali | Speaker | TED.com