TEDSummit 2019
Johann Hari: This could be why you're depressed and anxious
Johan Hari (Johann Hari): Možda ste zbog ovoga depresivni ili anksiozni
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Readability: 3.8
5,432,613 views
U dirljivom, delotvornom govoru, novinar Johan Hari deli najnovije uvide u uzroke depresije i anksioznosti stručnjaka širom sveta, kao i neke od uzbudljivih novih rešenja. „Ako ste depresivni ili anksiozni, niste slabi, niti ste ludi - vi ste ljudsko biće sa potrebama koje nisu ispunjene,“ kaže Hari.
Johann Hari - Journalist
Johann Hari spent three years researching the war on drugs; along the way, he discovered that addiction is not what we think it is. Full bio
Johann Hari spent three years researching the war on drugs; along the way, he discovered that addiction is not what we think it is. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
For a really long time,
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Prilično dugo vremena
00:14
I had two mysteries
that were hanging over me.
that were hanging over me.
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su me opsedale dve misterije.
00:18
I didn't understand them
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Nisam ih razumeo,
00:20
and, to be honest, I was quite afraid
to look into them.
to look into them.
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i iskreno, prilično me je plašilo
da razmišljam o njima.
da razmišljam o njima.
00:24
The first mystery was, I'm 40 years old,
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Prva misterija je: imam 40 godina,
00:27
and all throughout my lifetime,
year after year,
year after year,
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i kroz ceo moj život, iz godine u godinu,
00:31
serious depression and anxiety have risen,
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ozbiljna depresija
i anksioznost su u porastu,
i anksioznost su u porastu,
00:34
in the United States, in Britain,
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u Sjedinjenim Državama,
u Velikoj Britaniji,
u Velikoj Britaniji,
00:37
and across the Western world.
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i širom zapadnog sveta.
00:39
And I wanted to understand why.
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Želeo sam da razumem zašto.
00:43
Why is this happening to us?
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Zašto se to nama dešava?
00:45
Why is it that with each year that passes,
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Zašto se, iz godine u godinu,
00:48
more and more of us are finding it harder
to get through the day?
to get through the day?
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sve veći broj nas nađe u situaciji
da sve teže izgura dan?
da sve teže izgura dan?
Želeo sam da razumem ovo
više zbog lične misterije.
više zbog lične misterije.
00:51
And I wanted to understand this
because of a more personal mystery.
because of a more personal mystery.
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00:55
When I was a teenager,
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Kada sam bio tinejdžer,
00:56
I remember going to my doctor
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sećam se da sam išao kod doktora
00:58
and explaining that I had this feeling,
like pain was leaking out of me.
like pain was leaking out of me.
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i objasnio mu da imam taj osećaj
kao da bol curi iz mene.
kao da bol curi iz mene.
01:03
I couldn't control it,
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Nisam ga mogao kontrolisati,
01:04
I didn't understand why it was happening,
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nisam razumeo zašto se to dešava,
01:06
I felt quite ashamed of it.
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stideo sam se toga.
01:09
And my doctor told me a story
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Doktor mi je ispričao priču
01:10
that I now realize was well-intentioned,
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koja je, sad shvatam, bila dobronamerna,
01:12
but quite oversimplified.
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ali prilično uprošćena.
01:14
Not totally wrong.
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Ne potpuno pogrešna.
01:15
My doctor said, "We know
why people get like this.
why people get like this.
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Moj doktor je rekao: „Znamo
zašto ljudi postaju takvi.
zašto ljudi postaju takvi.
01:18
Some people just naturally get
a chemical imbalance in their heads --
a chemical imbalance in their heads --
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Neki ljudi prirodno imaju
hemijski disbalans u glavi -
hemijski disbalans u glavi -
01:22
you're clearly one of them.
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ti si očigledno jedan od njih.
01:24
All we need to do is give you some drugs,
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Samo treba da ti damo neke lekove,
i tvoj hemijski balans
će se vratiti u normalu.“
će se vratiti u normalu.“
01:26
it will get your chemical
balance back to normal."
balance back to normal."
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Počeo sam da uzimam lekove
Paksil ili Seroksat,
Paksil ili Seroksat,
01:28
So I started taking a drug
called Paxil or Seroxat,
called Paxil or Seroxat,
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isti lek pod drugim nazivima
u različitim zemljama.
u različitim zemljama.
01:30
it's the same thing with different names
in different countries.
in different countries.
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I osećao sam se mnogo bolje,
stvarno me je to podiglo.
stvarno me je to podiglo.
01:34
And I felt much better,
I got a real boost.
I got a real boost.
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01:36
But not very long afterwards,
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Ali nedugo potom,
01:37
this feeling of pain started to come back.
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onaj osećaj bola se počeo vraćati.
01:39
So I was given higher and higher doses
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Davali su mi sve veće i veće doze,
01:41
until, for 13 years, I was taking
the maximum possible dose
the maximum possible dose
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dok za 13 godina nisam počeo
uzimati maksimalnu moguću dozu
uzimati maksimalnu moguću dozu
01:45
that you're legally allowed to take.
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koja je zakonski dozvoljena da se uzima.
01:47
And for a lot of those 13 years,
and pretty much all the time by the end,
and pretty much all the time by the end,
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Tokom većeg dela tih 13 godina,
i uglavnom sve vreme pred kraj,
i uglavnom sve vreme pred kraj,
bio sam u bolovima.
01:50
I was still in a lot of pain.
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01:52
And I started asking myself,
"What's going on here?
"What's going on here?
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Počeo sam da se pitam: „Šta se dešava?
01:55
Because you're doing everything
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Radiš sve što su ti rekli da radiš,
01:56
you're told to do by the story
that's dominating the culture --
that's dominating the culture --
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po obrascu koji dominira ovom kulturom -
02:00
why do you still feel like this?"
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zašto se još uvek osećaš tako?“
02:02
So to get to the bottom
of these two mysteries,
of these two mysteries,
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Da bih otkrio srž ove dve misterije,
02:05
for a book that I've written
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za knjigu koju sam napisao,
02:06
I ended up going on a big journey
all over the world,
all over the world,
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završio sam na velikom putovanju po svetu,
i proputovao preko 64 000 kilometara.
02:09
I traveled over 40,000 miles.
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02:10
I wanted to sit with the leading
experts in the world
experts in the world
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Želeo sam da pričam sa vodećim
svetskim stručnjacima
svetskim stručnjacima
02:13
about what causes depression and anxiety
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o uzrocima depresije i anksioznosti,
02:15
and crucially, what solves them,
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i što je najbitnije, šta ih rešava,
02:17
and people who have come through
depression and anxiety
depression and anxiety
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i ljudima koji su prošli
kroz depresiju i anksioznost,
kroz depresiju i anksioznost,
02:19
and out the other side
in all sorts of ways.
in all sorts of ways.
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i pronašli izlaz na razne načine.
02:21
And I learned a huge amount
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Mnogo toga sam naučio
02:23
from the amazing people
I got to know along the way.
I got to know along the way.
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od neverovatnih ljudi
koje sam upoznavao tokom putovanja.
koje sam upoznavao tokom putovanja.
02:26
But I think at the heart
of what I learned is,
of what I learned is,
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Ali smatram da je suština
onoga što sam naučio do sada
onoga što sam naučio do sada
02:29
so far, we have scientific evidence
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da imamo naučne dokaze
02:32
for nine different causes
of depression and anxiety.
of depression and anxiety.
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za devet različitih uzroka
depresije i anksioznosti.
depresije i anksioznosti.
02:35
Two of them are indeed in our biology.
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Dva uzročnika su stvarno biološka.
02:38
Your genes can make you
more sensitive to these problems,
more sensitive to these problems,
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Vaši geni vas mogu učiniti
osetljivijim na te probleme,
osetljivijim na te probleme,
02:41
though they don't write your destiny.
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iako oni ne određuju vašu sudbinu.
02:43
And there are real brain changes
that can happen when you become depressed
that can happen when you become depressed
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Postoje i stvarne promene u mozgu
koje mogu da se dese
koje mogu da se dese
kada upadnete u depresiju
02:46
that can make it harder to get out.
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i koje mogu otežati izlazak iz nje.
02:48
But most of the factors
that have been proven
that have been proven
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Ali većina faktora koji su potvrđeni
02:50
to cause depression and anxiety
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kao uzroci depresije i anksioznosti
02:52
are not in our biology.
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nisu biološke prirode.
02:55
They are factors in the way we live.
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To su faktori koji se nalaze
u načinu na koji živimo.
u načinu na koji živimo.
02:58
And once you understand them,
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Onog momenta kada ih razumete,
02:59
it opens up a very different
set of solutions
set of solutions
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to otvara veoma drugačiji spektar rešenja
03:02
that should be offered to people
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koji bi trebalo ponuditi ljudima
03:04
alongside the option
of chemical antidepressants.
of chemical antidepressants.
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uz opciju hemijskih antidepresiva.
03:07
For example,
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Na primer:
03:09
if you're lonely, you're more likely
to become depressed.
to become depressed.
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ako ste usamljeni, veća je verovatnoća
da ćete postati depresivni.
da ćete postati depresivni.
03:12
If, when you go to work,
you don't have any control over your job,
you don't have any control over your job,
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Ako radite, a nemate nikakvu kontrolu
nad svojim poslom,
nad svojim poslom,
nego samo radite ono šta vam se kaže,
03:15
you've just got to do what you're told,
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veća je verovatnoća
da ćete postati depresivni.
da ćete postati depresivni.
03:17
you're more likely to become depressed.
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03:19
If you very rarely get out
into the natural world,
into the natural world,
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Ako retko kad izlazite u prirodu,
03:22
you're more likely to become depressed.
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veća je verovatnoća
da ćete postati depresivni.
da ćete postati depresivni.
03:23
And one thing unites a lot of the causes
of depression and anxiety
of depression and anxiety
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A jedna stvar objedinjuje mnogo uzroka
depresije i anksioznosti
depresije i anksioznosti
03:27
that I learned about.
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o kojima sam slušao.
03:28
Not all of them, but a lot of them.
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Ne sve, ali dosta njih.
03:30
Everyone here knows
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Svi ovde znaju
03:32
you've all got natural
physical needs, right?
physical needs, right?
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da svi imamo prirodne
fizičke potrebe, zar ne?
fizičke potrebe, zar ne?
03:34
Obviously.
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Očigledno.
03:35
You need food, you need water,
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Treba vam hrana, treba vam voda,
03:38
you need shelter, you need clean air.
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prenoćište, čist vazduh.
03:40
If I took those things away from you,
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Ako bih uzeo to od vas,
bili biste veoma brzo u stvarnom problemu.
03:42
you'd all be in real trouble, real fast.
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03:44
But at the same time,
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Ali u isto vreme,
03:46
ever human being
has natural psychological needs.
has natural psychological needs.
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svako ljudsko biće
ima prirodne psihološke potrebe.
ima prirodne psihološke potrebe.
03:50
You need to feel you belong.
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Potrebno vam je da osećate pripadnost.
03:52
You need to feel your life
has meaning and purpose.
has meaning and purpose.
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Potrebno vam je da osetite
da vaš život ima smisao i svrhu,
da vaš život ima smisao i svrhu,
03:55
You need to feel that people
see you and value you.
see you and value you.
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da osetite da vas ljudi prepoznaju i cene,
03:57
You need to feel you've got
a future that makes sense.
a future that makes sense.
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da osetite da imate
budućnost koja ima smisla.
budućnost koja ima smisla.
04:00
And this culture we built
is good at lots of things.
is good at lots of things.
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Ova kultura koju smo izgradili
je dobra po pitanju dosta stvari.
je dobra po pitanju dosta stvari.
04:03
And many things are better
than in the past --
than in the past --
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Mnoge stvari su bolje nego u prošlosti -
drago mi je što živim u sadašnjici.
04:05
I'm glad to be alive today.
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04:07
But we've been getting less and less good
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Ali sve smo lošiji i lošiji
u ispunjavanju ovih dubokih,
osnovnih psiholoških potreba.
osnovnih psiholoških potreba.
04:09
at meeting these deep,
underlying psychological needs.
underlying psychological needs.
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04:13
And it's not the only thing
that's going on,
that's going on,
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I to nije jedino što se dešava,
ali smatram da je to ključni razlog
zašto se ova kriza stalno produbljuje.
zašto se ova kriza stalno produbljuje.
04:16
but I think it's the key reason
why this crisis keeps rising and rising.
why this crisis keeps rising and rising.
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04:20
And I found this really hard to absorb.
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Shvatio sam da je to
jako teško prihvatiti.
jako teško prihvatiti.
04:24
I really wrestled with the idea
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Stvarno sam se borio sa ovom idejom
04:26
of shifting from thinking of my depression
as just a problem in my brain,
as just a problem in my brain,
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promene od razmišljanja o depresiji
kao problemu samo u mom mozgu
kao problemu samo u mom mozgu
do o problemu sa više uzroka,
04:31
to one with many causes,
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04:32
including many in the way we're living.
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uključujući mnoge vezane
za način na koji živimo.
za način na koji živimo.
04:34
And it only really began
to fall into place for me
to fall into place for me
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To je tek počelo
da se uklapa u mojoj glavi
da se uklapa u mojoj glavi
kada sam jednog dana otišao da razgovaram
sa južnoafričkim psihijatrom
sa južnoafričkim psihijatrom
04:36
when one day, I went to interview
a South African psychiatrist
a South African psychiatrist
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04:40
named Dr. Derek Summerfield.
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po imenu dr Derek Samerfild.
04:41
He's a great guy.
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On je sjajan lik.
04:43
And Dr. Summerfield
happened to be in Cambodia in 2001,
happened to be in Cambodia in 2001,
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Dr Samerfild je sticajem okolnosti
bio u Kambodži 2001. godine,
bio u Kambodži 2001. godine,
04:46
when they first introduced
chemical antidepressants
chemical antidepressants
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kada su prvi put predstavili
hemijske antidepresive
hemijske antidepresive
04:50
for people in that country.
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ljudima u zemlji.
04:51
And the local doctors, the Cambodians,
had never heard of these drugs,
had never heard of these drugs,
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Lokalni doktori, Kambodžijanci,
nikada nisu čuli za ovu vrstu lekova,
nikada nisu čuli za ovu vrstu lekova,
04:55
so they were like, what are they?
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pa su pitali šta je to.
04:56
And he explained.
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On je objasnio.
04:58
And they said to him,
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Onda su mu oni rekli:
04:59
"We don't need them,
we've already got antidepressants."
we've already got antidepressants."
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„Nama to ne treba,
mi već imamo antidepresive.”
mi već imamo antidepresive.”
05:02
And he was like, "What do you mean?"
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On je bio u fazonu: „Kako to mislite?”
05:04
He thought they were going to talk about
some kind of herbal remedy,
some kind of herbal remedy,
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Mislio je da će pričati
o nekoj vrsti biljnog leka,
o nekoj vrsti biljnog leka,
05:07
like St. John's Wort, ginkgo biloba,
something like that.
something like that.
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kao, na primer, o kantarionu,
ginko bilobi ili nečemu sličnom.
ginko bilobi ili nečemu sličnom.
05:11
Instead, they told him a story.
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Umesto toga, oni su mu ispričali priču.
05:14
There was a farmer in their community
who worked in the rice fields.
who worked in the rice fields.
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Bio je jedan farmer u njihovoj zajednici
koji je radio na prinčanim poljima.
koji je radio na prinčanim poljima.
05:18
And one day, he stood on a land mine
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Jednog dana, stao je na minu
05:20
left over from the war
with the United States,
with the United States,
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zaostalu iz rata sa Sjedinjenim Državama,
05:22
and he got his leg blown off.
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i izgubio je nogu.
05:23
So they him an artificial leg,
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Nabavili su mu veštačku nogu,
05:25
and after a while, he went back
to work in the rice fields.
to work in the rice fields.
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i nakon izvesnog vremena,
vratio se u pirinčana polja.
vratio se u pirinčana polja.
Očigledno, bilo je izuzetno
bolno raditi pod vodom
bolno raditi pod vodom
05:28
But apparently, it's super painful
to work under water
to work under water
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kada imate veštački ud,
05:30
when you've got an artificial limb,
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05:32
and I'm guessing it was pretty traumatic
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i pretpostavljam da je bilo
i prilično traumatično
i prilično traumatično
05:34
to go back and work in the field
where he got blown up.
where he got blown up.
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vratiti se natrag na polje
gde je bio raznesen.
gde je bio raznesen.
05:36
The guy started to cry all day,
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Čovek je počeo plakati po ceo dan,
05:39
he refused to get out of bed,
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odbijao je da izađe iz kreveta,
05:40
he developed all the symptoms
of classic depression.
of classic depression.
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razvio je sve simptome klasične depresije.
05:44
The Cambodian doctor said,
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Kambodžanski doktor je rekao:
05:45
"This is when we gave him
an antidepressant."
an antidepressant."
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„Tada smo mu dali antidepresiv.”
05:47
And Dr. Summerfield said,
"What was it?"
"What was it?"
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A dr Samerfild je pitao:
„Šta ste mu dali?”
„Šta ste mu dali?”
05:50
They explained that they went
and sat with him.
and sat with him.
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Objasnili su da su otišli kod njega,
05:53
They listened to him.
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saslušali ga,
05:56
They realized that his pain made sense --
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i shvatili da njegov bol ima smisla -
05:59
it was hard for him to see it
in the throes of his depression,
in the throes of his depression,
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za njega je bilo teško da to vidi,
gušeći se u depresiji,
gušeći se u depresiji,
06:01
but actually, it had perfectly
understandable causes in his life.
understandable causes in his life.
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ali u suštini je to imalo potpuno
razumljive uzroke u njegovom životu.
razumljive uzroke u njegovom životu.
06:05
One of the doctors, talking to the people
in the community, figured,
in the community, figured,
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Jedan od doktora je pomislio,
pričajući sa ljudima iz zajednice:
pričajući sa ljudima iz zajednice:
„Znate, ako mu kupimo kravu,
06:09
"You know, if we bought this guy a cow,
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06:11
he could become a dairy farmer,
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mogao bi da postane mlekar,
06:13
he wouldn't be in this position
that was screwing him up so much,
that was screwing him up so much,
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i ne bi bio u poziciji
koja ga toliko remeti,
koja ga toliko remeti,
ne bi morao da ide
da radi u pirinčanim poljima.”
da radi u pirinčanim poljima.”
06:16
he wouldn't have to go
and work in the rice fields."
and work in the rice fields."
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Tako su mu kupili kravu.
06:18
So they bought him a cow.
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Za nekoliko nedelja plakanje je prestalo,
06:20
Within a couple of weeks,
his crying stopped,
his crying stopped,
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06:22
within a month, his depression was gone.
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u roku od mesec dana
njegova depresija je nestala.
njegova depresija je nestala.
06:24
They said to doctor Summerfield,
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Rekli su doktoru Samerfildu:
06:25
"So you see, doctor, that cow,
that was an antidepressant,
that was an antidepressant,
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„Vidite, doktore, ta krava
je bila antidepresiv,
je bila antidepresiv,
to je ono na šta mislite, zar ne?”
06:28
that's what you mean, right?"
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06:30
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
06:31
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
06:34
If you'd been raised to think
about depression the way I was,
about depression the way I was,
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Da ste odgajani da razmišljate
o depresiji na način na koji sam ja,
o depresiji na način na koji sam ja,
06:37
and most of the people here were,
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a većina ljudi jeste,
06:38
that sounds like a bad joke, right?
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1674
to zvuči kao loša šala, zar ne?
„Otišao sam kod doktorke
po antidepresiv, i dala mi je kravu.”
po antidepresiv, i dala mi je kravu.”
06:40
"I went to my doctor
for an antidepressant,
for an antidepressant,
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2024
06:42
she gave me a cow."
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Ali ono što su kambodžanski
doktori intuitivno znali,
doktori intuitivno znali,
06:43
But what those Cambodian
doctors knew intuitively,
doctors knew intuitively,
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06:46
based on this individual,
unscientific anecdote,
unscientific anecdote,
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zasnovano na ovoj pojedinačnoj,
nenaučnoj anegdoti,
nenaučnoj anegdoti,
06:49
is what the leading
medical body in the world,
medical body in the world,
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je ono što vodeća svetska
zdravstvena institucija,
zdravstvena institucija,
06:53
the World Health Organization,
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Svetska zdravstvena organizacija,
06:55
has been trying to tell us for years,
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pokušava da nam kaže godinama unazad,
06:57
based on the best scientific evidence.
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zasnovano na najboljim naučnim dokazima.
07:00
If you're depressed,
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Ako ste depresivni,
07:02
if you're anxious,
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ako ste anksiozni,
07:05
you're not weak, you're not crazy,
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niste slabi, niste ludi,
07:08
you're not, in the main,
a machine with broken parts.
a machine with broken parts.
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niste, pobogu, mašina
sa polomljenim delovima.
sa polomljenim delovima.
07:12
You're a human being with unmet needs.
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Vi ste ljudsko biće
sa potrebama koje nisu ispunjene.
sa potrebama koje nisu ispunjene.
07:15
And it's just as important to think here
about what those Cambodian doctors
about what those Cambodian doctors
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Jednako je važno razmisliti
o onome što kambodžanski doktori
o onome što kambodžanski doktori
i Svetska zdravstvena
organizacija ne govore.
organizacija ne govore.
07:19
and the World Health Organization
are not saying.
are not saying.
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Oni ne govore ovom farmeru:
07:21
They did not say to this farmer,
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07:23
"Hey, buddy, you need
to pull yourself together.
to pull yourself together.
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„Hej, drugar, moraš da se sabereš.
07:26
It's your job to figure out
and fix this problem on your own."
and fix this problem on your own."
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Tvoj posao je da sam rešiš ovaj problem.”
07:29
On the contrary, what they said is,
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Naprotiv, oni kažu:
07:31
"We're here as a group
to pull together with you,
to pull together with you,
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„Ovde smo kao grupa da ti pomognemo,
07:35
so together, we can figure out
and fix this problem."
and fix this problem."
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zajedno možemo da shvatimo
i rešimo ovaj problem.”
i rešimo ovaj problem.”
07:40
This is what every depressed person needs,
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To je ono što svaka osoba
koja je u depresiji treba,
koja je u depresiji treba,
07:44
and it's what every
depressed person deserves.
depressed person deserves.
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i ono što svaka osoba
koja je u depresiji zaslužuje.
koja je u depresiji zaslužuje.
07:47
This is why one of the leading
doctors at the United Nations,
doctors at the United Nations,
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Upravo zato je jedan od vodećih doktora
u Ujedinjenim nacijama,
u Ujedinjenim nacijama,
07:50
in their official statement
for World Health Day,
for World Health Day,
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u zvaničnoj izjavi povodom
Svetskog dana zdravlja,
Svetskog dana zdravlja,
07:53
couple of years back in 2017,
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pre par godina, 2017. godine,
rekao da treba manje razgovarati
o hemijskoj neuravnoteženosti,
o hemijskoj neuravnoteženosti,
07:54
said we need to talk less
about chemical imbalances
about chemical imbalances
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07:57
and more about the imbalances
in the way we live.
in the way we live.
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a više o neuravnoteženosti
u načinu na koji živimo.
u načinu na koji živimo.
08:00
Drugs give real relief to some people --
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1973
Lekovi pružaju pravo olakšanje
nekim ljudima -
nekim ljudima -
08:02
they gave relief to me for a while --
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meni su pružali olakšanje neko vreme -
08:05
but precisely because this problem
goes deeper than their biology,
goes deeper than their biology,
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4427
ali upravo zbog toga što ovaj problem
prevazilazi biologiju,
prevazilazi biologiju,
08:09
the solutions need to go much deeper, too.
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rešenje mora takođe da bude trajnije.
08:12
But when I first learned that,
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Kada sam ovo prvi put shvatio,
08:15
I remember thinking,
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1683
sećam se da sam pomislio:
08:16
"OK, I could see
all the scientific evidence,
all the scientific evidence,
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2126
„Okej, mogao sam da vidim
sve naučne dokaze,
sve naučne dokaze,
08:19
I read a huge number of studies,
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pročitao sam brojna istraživanja,
08:20
I interviewed a huge number of the experts
who were explaining this,"
who were explaining this,"
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razgovarao sa velikim brojem stručnjaka
koji su ovo objašnjavali,”
koji su ovo objašnjavali,”
08:23
but I kept thinking, "How can we
possibly do that?"
possibly do that?"
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ali stalno sam mislio:
„Kako to možemo da uradimo?”
„Kako to možemo da uradimo?”
08:26
The things that are making us depressed
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1913
Stvari koje nas čine depresivnim
su u većini slučajeva mnogo komplikovanije
08:28
are in most cases more complex
than what was going on
than what was going on
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nego kod kambodžanskog farmera.
08:30
with this Cambodian farmer.
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Sa čim uopšte da počnemo?
08:32
Where do we even begin with that insight?
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08:34
But then, in the long journey for my book,
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Ali opet, na dugom putovanju
za moju knjigu,
za moju knjigu,
08:38
all over the world,
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širom sveta,
08:39
I kept meeting people
who were doing exactly that,
who were doing exactly that,
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susretao sam ljude
koji su upravo to radili,
koji su upravo to radili,
08:42
from Sydney, to San Francisco,
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2452
od Sidneja, San Franciska,
08:44
to São Paulo.
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do Sao Paula.
08:45
I kept meeting people
who were understanding
who were understanding
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Sretao sam se sa ljudima koji su razumeli
08:48
the deeper causes
of depression and anxiety
of depression and anxiety
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2347
dublje uzroke depresije i anksioznosti
08:50
and, as groups, fixing them.
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i koji su ih, kao grupa, rešavali.
08:52
Obviously, I can't tell you
about all the amazing people
about all the amazing people
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Očigledno, ne mogu da vam pričam
o svim neverovatnim ljudima
o svim neverovatnim ljudima
08:55
I got to know and wrote about,
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koje sam upoznao i pisao o njima,
08:57
or all of the nine causes of depression
and anxiety that I learned about,
and anxiety that I learned about,
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3453
ili o svih devet uzroka depresije
i anksioznosti za koje sam saznao,
i anksioznosti za koje sam saznao,
09:00
because they won't let me give
a 10-hour TED Talk --
a 10-hour TED Talk --
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zato što mi ne daju
da održim TED govor od 10 sati -
da održim TED govor od 10 sati -
09:03
you can complain about that to them.
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možete im se žaliti na to.
Želim da se fokusiram na dva uzroka
09:04
But I want to focus on two of the causes
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1930
i dva rešenja koja proizilaze
iz njih, ako se slažete.
iz njih, ako se slažete.
09:06
and two of the solutions
that emerge from them, if that's alright.
that emerge from them, if that's alright.
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3413
09:10
Here's the first.
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Evo prvog:
09:12
We are the loneliest society
in human history.
in human history.
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Mi smo najusamljenije društvo
u ljudskoj istoriji.
u ljudskoj istoriji.
09:15
There was a recent study
that asked Americans,
that asked Americans,
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2833
Postoji nedavno istraživanje
koje je pitalo Amerikance:
koje je pitalo Amerikance:
09:18
"Do you feel like you're no longer
close to anyone?"
close to anyone?"
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3150
„Da li imate osećaj
kao da više niste bliski ni sa kim?”
kao da više niste bliski ni sa kim?”
09:21
And 39 percent of people
said that described them.
said that described them.
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I 39% ljudi je reklo
da to odgovara njihovom opisu.
da to odgovara njihovom opisu.
„Nisam više blizak ni sa kim.”
09:25
"No longer close to anyone."
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09:26
In the international
measurements of loneliness,
measurements of loneliness,
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Na međunarodnim skalama usamljenosti,
09:28
Britain and the rest of Europe
are just behind the US,
are just behind the US,
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Velika Britanija i ostatak Evrope
su odmah iza Sjedinjenih Država,
su odmah iza Sjedinjenih Država,
09:31
in case anyone here is feeling smug.
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za slučaj da neko likuje.
09:33
(Laughter)
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1008
(Smeh)
09:34
I spent a lot of time discussing this
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1889
Puno vremena sam proveo
razgovarajući o ovome
razgovarajući o ovome
09:36
with the leading expert
in the world on loneliness,
in the world on loneliness,
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2396
sa vodećim svetskim
stručnjacima za usamljenost,
stručnjacima za usamljenost,
09:38
an incredible man
named professor John Cacioppo,
named professor John Cacioppo,
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2254
sa izuzetnim čovek po imenu
profesor Džon Kasiopo,
profesor Džon Kasiopo,
09:40
who was at Chicago,
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1151
koji je bio u Čikagu,
09:42
and I thought a lot about one question
his work poses to us.
his work poses to us.
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i razmišljao sam o jednom pitanju
koje nam njegov rad postavlja.
koje nam njegov rad postavlja.
09:44
Professor Cacioppo asked,
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2305
Profesor Kasiopo je pitao:
09:47
"Why do we exist?
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„Zašto postojimo?
09:48
Why are we here, why are we alive?"
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1953
Zašto smo ovde, zašto smo živi?”
09:50
One key reason
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2206
Jedan od ključnih razloga
09:53
is that our ancestors
on the savannas of Africa
on the savannas of Africa
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581198
2817
je taj što su naši praoci
iz afričkih savana
iz afričkih savana
09:56
were really good at one thing.
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1720
bili stvarno dobri u jednoj stvari.
09:58
They weren't bigger than the animals
they took down a lot of the time,
they took down a lot of the time,
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3290
Često nisu bili veći
od životinja koje su lovili,
od životinja koje su lovili,
a često nisu bili ni brži
od životinja koje su lovili,
od životinja koje su lovili,
10:01
they weren't faster than the animals
they took down a lot of the time,
they took down a lot of the time,
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3313
ali su bili mnogo bolji
u povezivanju u grupe
u povezivanju u grupe
10:04
but they were much better
at banding together into groups
at banding together into groups
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2714
10:07
and cooperating.
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1600
i saradnji.
10:09
This was our superpower as a species --
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2261
To je bila naša supermoć kao vrste -
10:11
we band together,
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1405
mi se povezujemo,
10:13
just like bees evolved to live in a hive,
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baš kao što su se pčele razvile
da žive u košnici,
da žive u košnici,
10:15
humans evolved to live in a tribe.
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2232
ljudi su se razvili da žive u plemenima.
10:17
And we are the first humans ever
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A mi smo prvi ljudi u istoriji
10:22
to disband our tribes.
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koji se odriču svojih plemena.
10:24
And it is making us feel awful.
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Zbog toga se osećamo grozno.
10:27
But it doesn't have to be this way.
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2144
Ali ne mora da bude tako.
10:29
One of the heroes in my book,
and in fact, in my life,
and in fact, in my life,
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2634
Jedan od junaka moje knjige,
i zapravo mog života,
i zapravo mog života,
10:31
is a doctor named Sam Everington.
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je doktor po imenu Sem Everington.
10:33
He's a general practitioner
in a poor part of East London,
in a poor part of East London,
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2738
On je lekar opšte prakse
u siromašnim delovima istočnog Londona,
u siromašnim delovima istočnog Londona,
10:36
where I lived for many years.
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gde sam ja živeo mnogo godina.
10:38
And Sam was really uncomfortable,
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Sem se osećao jako neprijatno
10:40
because he had loads of patients
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1556
zato što je imao gomilu pacijenata
10:41
coming to him with terrible
depression and anxiety.
depression and anxiety.
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2444
koji su mu dolazili
sa depresijom i anksioznošću.
sa depresijom i anksioznošću.
10:44
And like me, he's not opposed
to chemical antidepressants,
to chemical antidepressants,
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2722
Baš kao i ja, nije protivnik
hemijskih antidepresiva,
hemijskih antidepresiva,
smatra da oni pružaju
olakšanje nekim ljudima.
olakšanje nekim ljudima.
10:46
he thinks they give
some relief to some people.
some relief to some people.
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634863
2222
Ali je uvideo dve stvari.
10:49
But he could see two things.
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1373
Prvo, njegovi pacijenti
su često bili depresivni i anksiozni
su često bili depresivni i anksiozni
10:50
Firstly, his patients were depressed
and anxious a lot of the time
and anxious a lot of the time
258
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3555
10:54
for totally understandable
reasons, like loneliness.
reasons, like loneliness.
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3738
iz potpuno razumljivih razloga,
poput usamljenosti.
poput usamljenosti.
10:57
And secondly, although the drugs
were giving some relief to some people,
were giving some relief to some people,
260
645847
3444
Drugo, iako su lekovi pružali
olakšanje nekim ljudima,
olakšanje nekim ljudima,
mnogima nisu rešili problem.
11:01
for many people,
they didn't solve the problem.
they didn't solve the problem.
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2268
11:03
The underlying problem.
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1533
Suštinski problem.
11:05
One day, Sam decided
to pioneer a different approach.
to pioneer a different approach.
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2651
Jednog dana Sem je odlučio
da pokrene drugačiji pristup.
da pokrene drugačiji pristup.
11:08
A woman came to his center,
his medical center,
his medical center,
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2452
Žena je došla u njegovu
zdravstvenu ustanovu,
zdravstvenu ustanovu,
11:11
called Lisa Cunningham.
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1467
a zvala se Lisa Kaningem.
11:12
I got to know Lisa later.
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1874
Ja sam kasnije upoznao Lisu.
11:14
And Lisa had been shut away in her home
with crippling depression and anxiety
with crippling depression and anxiety
267
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4084
Lisa je bila zatvorena u svom domu
sa jezivom depresijom i anksioznošću
sa jezivom depresijom i anksioznošću
11:18
for seven years.
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1150
sedam godina.
11:20
And when she came to Sam's center,
she was told, "Don't worry,
she was told, "Don't worry,
269
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2925
Kada je došla u Semovu ustanovu,
rečeno joj je: „Ne brini,
rečeno joj je: „Ne brini,
11:23
we'll carry on giving you these drugs,
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1830
nastavićemo sa davanjem ovih lekova,
11:25
but we're also going to prescribe
something else.
something else.
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2797
ali ćemo takođe prepisati nešto drugo.
11:28
We're going to prescribe for you
to come here to this center twice a week
to come here to this center twice a week
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3443
Prepisaćemo ti da dva puta nedeljno
dolaziš u ovaj centar
dolaziš u ovaj centar
11:31
to meet with a group of other
depressed and anxious people,
depressed and anxious people,
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2778
kako bi upoznala grupu ljudi
sa depresijom i anksioznošću,
sa depresijom i anksioznošću,
ne da biste pričali kako ste nesrećni,
11:34
not to talk about how miserable you are,
274
682791
2810
11:37
but to figure out something
meaningful you can all do together
meaningful you can all do together
275
685625
3547
nego da zajedno pronađete
nešto smisleno što biste mogli da uradite,
nešto smisleno što biste mogli da uradite,
tako da ne budeš usamljena
i nemaš osećaj da ti je život besmislen.”
i nemaš osećaj da ti je život besmislen.”
11:41
so you won't be lonely and you won't feel
like life is pointless."
like life is pointless."
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689196
3103
11:44
The first time this group met,
277
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2775
Prvi put kada se ova grupa sastala,
11:47
Lisa literally started
vomiting with anxiety,
vomiting with anxiety,
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Lisa je bukvalno počela
da povraća od anksioznosti,
da povraća od anksioznosti,
11:49
it was so overwhelming for her.
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1921
to je bilo preemotivno za nju.
11:51
But people rubbed her back,
the group started talking,
the group started talking,
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Ali ljudi su bili tu za nju,
grupa je počela pričati:
grupa je počela pričati:
11:54
they were like, "What could we do?"
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„Šta bismo mogli učiniti?”
Ljudi iz grada,
iz istočnog Londona, kao ja,
iz istočnog Londona, kao ja,
11:55
These are inner-city,
East London people like me,
East London people like me,
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nisu imali pojma o baštovanstvu.
11:58
they didn't know anything about gardening.
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Bili su u fazonu: „Hajde
da naučimo baštovanstvo?”
da naučimo baštovanstvo?”
12:00
They were like, "Why don't we
learn gardening?"
learn gardening?"
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Postojao je prostor
iza doktorskih ordinacija
iza doktorskih ordinacija
12:02
There was an area
behind the doctors' offices
behind the doctors' offices
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koji je bio zarastao.
12:04
that was just scrubland.
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„Zašto ne bismo pretvorili to u baštu?”
12:05
"Why don't we make this into a garden?"
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Počeli su da uzimaju knjige iz biblioteke,
12:07
They started to take books
out of the library,
out of the library,
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da gledaju klipove na Jutjubu.
12:09
started to watch YouTube clips.
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Počeli su da čeprkaju po zemljištu.
12:11
They started to get
their fingers in the soil.
their fingers in the soil.
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12:13
They started to learn
the rhythms of the seasons.
the rhythms of the seasons.
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Počeli su da uče o ritmu godišnjih doba.
12:16
There's a lot of evidence
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Postoje brojni dokazi
da je izloženost prirodi
da je izloženost prirodi
12:18
that exposure to the natural world
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stvarno jak antidepresiv.
12:19
is a really powerful antidepressant.
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12:21
But they started to do something
even more important.
even more important.
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Ali oni su počeli da rade
nešto još značajnije.
nešto još značajnije.
12:25
They started to form a tribe.
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Počeli su da formiraju pleme.
12:27
They started to form a group.
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Počeli su da osnivaju grupu.
12:29
They started to care about each other.
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Počeli su da brinu jedni o drugima.
12:31
If one of them didn't show up,
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Kada se neko od njih ne bi pojavio,
12:32
the others would go
looking for them -- "Are you OK?"
looking for them -- "Are you OK?"
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drugi bi otišli da ih traže -
„Jesi li dobro?”,
„Jesi li dobro?”,
12:35
Help them figure out
what was troubling them that day.
what was troubling them that day.
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pomažući im da shvate
šta ih je mučilo tog dana.
šta ih je mučilo tog dana.
Lisa mi je to objasnila ovako:
12:38
The way Lisa put it to me,
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12:39
"As the garden began to bloom,
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„Kako je bašta počela da cveta,
12:42
we began to bloom."
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i mi smo procvetali.”
12:44
This approach is called
social prescribing,
social prescribing,
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2032
Ovaj pristup se zove
prepisivanje druženja,
prepisivanje druženja,
12:46
it's spreading all over Europe.
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i širi se Evropom.
Postoji mala ali sve veća gomila dokaza
12:48
And there's a small,
but growing body of evidence
but growing body of evidence
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2301
koja upućuje da to može proizvesti
stvaran i smislen pad
stvaran i smislen pad
12:50
suggesting it can produce real
and meaningful falls
and meaningful falls
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12:53
in depression and anxiety.
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1978
depresije i anksioznosti.
12:55
And one day, I remember
standing in the garden
standing in the garden
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3721
Sećam se jednog dana,
dok sam stajao u bašti
dok sam stajao u bašti
12:59
that Lisa and her once-depressed
friends had built --
friends had built --
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2481
koju su napravili Lisa
i njeni nekada depresivni prijatelji -
i njeni nekada depresivni prijatelji -
13:01
it's a really beautiful garden --
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1584
stvarno prelepa bašta -
13:03
and having this thought,
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razmišljao sam o ovome,
13:04
it's very much inspired by a guy
called professor Hugh Mackay in Australia.
called professor Hugh Mackay in Australia.
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prilično inspirisan čovekom
po imenu profesor Hju Mekaj iz Australije.
po imenu profesor Hju Mekaj iz Australije.
13:08
I was thinking, so often
when people feel down in this culture,
when people feel down in this culture,
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Razmišljao sam o tome da, toliko često
kada se ljudi u ovoj kulturi osećaju loše,
kada se ljudi u ovoj kulturi osećaju loše,
13:12
what we say to them -- I'm sure
everyone here said it, I have --
everyone here said it, I have --
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780673
3064
kažemo im - siguran sam
da su svi izgovorili, ja jesam -
da su svi izgovorili, ja jesam -
13:15
we say, "You just need
to be you, be yourself."
to be you, be yourself."
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kažemo: „Samo treba da budeš
to što jesi. Budi svoj.”
to što jesi. Budi svoj.”
13:19
And I've realized, actually,
what we should say to people is,
what we should say to people is,
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I shvatio sam da bi zapravo
trebalo reći ljudima:
trebalo reći ljudima:
„Nemoj biti ti.
13:22
"Don't be you.
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1150
13:24
Don't be yourself.
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1333
Nemoj biti svoj.
Budi mi. Budi naš.
13:26
Be us, be we.
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2209
13:28
Be part of a group."
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1325
Budi deo grupe.”
13:30
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
13:33
The solution to these problems
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801844
2579
Rešenje ovih problema
13:36
does not lie in drawing
more and more on your resources
more and more on your resources
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3151
ne leži u angažovanju
sve više i više vaših resursa,
sve više i više vaših resursa,
13:39
as an isolated individual --
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807622
1439
kao usamljene jedinke -
13:41
that's partly what got us in this crisis.
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809085
2040
delimično to nas je dovelo u krizu.
13:43
It lies on reconnecting
with something bigger than you.
with something bigger than you.
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2753
Leži u ponovnom povezivanju
sa nečim što je veće od vas.
sa nečim što je veće od vas.
13:45
And that really connects
to one of the other causes
to one of the other causes
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813926
2421
A to je suštinski povezano
sa jednim od ostalih uzroka
sa jednim od ostalih uzroka
13:48
of depression and anxiety
that I wanted to talk to you about.
that I wanted to talk to you about.
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816371
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depresije i anksioznosti
o kojima sam želeo da vam pričam.
o kojima sam želeo da vam pričam.
Dakle, svi znaju
13:51
So everyone knows
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819292
1690
da je loša hrana počela da nam dominira
u ishrani i učinila nas fizički bolesnim.
u ishrani i učinila nas fizički bolesnim.
13:53
junk food has taken over our diets
and made us physically sick.
and made us physically sick.
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821006
3746
13:56
I don't say that
with any sense of superiority,
with any sense of superiority,
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824776
2206
Ne govorim ovo sa nekom
dozom superiornosti,
dozom superiornosti,
bukvalno sam došao ovamo iz Mekdonaldsa.
13:59
I literally came to give
this talk from McDonald's.
this talk from McDonald's.
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827006
2399
14:01
I saw all of you eating that
healthy TED breakfast, I was like no way.
healthy TED breakfast, I was like no way.
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829429
3513
Video sam sve vas kako jedete
zdrav TED-ov doručak
zdrav TED-ov doručak
i bio sam u fazonu - nema šanse.
14:04
But just like junk food has taken over
our diets and made us physically sick,
our diets and made us physically sick,
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5143
Isto kao što je loša hrana preovladala
ishranom i učinila nas fizički bolesnim,
ishranom i učinila nas fizički bolesnim,
14:10
a kind of junk values
have taken over our minds
have taken over our minds
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838133
4110
tako su i loše vrednosti
preuzele naše umove
preuzele naše umove
14:14
and made us mentally sick.
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1478
i učinile nas mentalno bolesnim.
14:16
For thousands of years,
philosophers have said,
philosophers have said,
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844157
3104
Hiljadama godina filozofi govore da,
14:19
if you think life is about money,
and status and showing off,
and status and showing off,
340
847285
4588
ako vam se život vrti oko novca,
statusa i pokazivanja,
statusa i pokazivanja,
14:23
you're going to feel like crap.
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851897
1523
osećaćete se očajno.
14:25
That's not an exact quote
from Schopenhauer,
from Schopenhauer,
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853444
2067
To nije baš bio precizan
citat Šopenhauera,
citat Šopenhauera,
14:27
but that is the gist of what he said.
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855535
1772
ali to je suština onoga što je rekao.
14:29
But weirdly, hardy anyone
had scientifically investigated this,
had scientifically investigated this,
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3026
Ono što je čudno jeste da niko
nije naučno istražio ovo,
nije naučno istražio ovo,
14:32
until a truly extraordinary person
I got to know, named professor Tim Kasser,
I got to know, named professor Tim Kasser,
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860381
3649
sve dok istinski vanserijska osoba
koju sam upoznao, profesor Tim Kaser,
koju sam upoznao, profesor Tim Kaser,
14:36
who's at Knox College in Illinois,
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864054
2293
sa Fakulteta Noks u Ilinoisu,
14:38
and he's been researching this
for about 30 years now.
for about 30 years now.
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866371
2563
nije počeo svoje istraživanje
pre oko 30 godina.
pre oko 30 godina.
14:40
And his research suggests
several really important things.
several really important things.
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868958
3016
Njegovo istraživanje je upućivalo
na nekoliko važnih stvari.
na nekoliko važnih stvari.
14:43
Firstly, the more you believe
349
871998
3191
Prvo, što više verujete
14:47
you can buy and display
your way out of sadness,
your way out of sadness,
350
875213
4365
da možete novcem i pokazivanjem
naći izlaz iz tuge
naći izlaz iz tuge
14:51
and into a good life,
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879602
2191
ka dobrom životu,
14:53
the more likely you are to become
depressed and anxious.
depressed and anxious.
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2912
veća je verovatnoća da ćete postati
depresivni i anksiozni.
depresivni i anksiozni.
14:56
And secondly,
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1293
Drugo, kao društvo,
14:58
as a society, we have become
much more driven by these beliefs.
much more driven by these beliefs.
354
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4588
sve nas više pokreću ova verovanja.
15:02
All throughout my lifetime,
355
890682
1413
Tokom celog svog života,
15:04
under the weight of advertising
and Instagram and everything like them.
and Instagram and everything like them.
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892119
4193
pod teretom reklama,
Instagrama i svega sličnog tome.
Instagrama i svega sličnog tome.
15:08
And as I thought about this,
357
896871
1373
Dok sam razmišljao o tome,
15:10
I realized it's like we've all been fed
since birth, a kind of KFC for the soul.
since birth, a kind of KFC for the soul.
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898268
5761
shvatio sam da je to
kao da su nas od rođenja hranili
kao da su nas od rođenja hranili
nekom vrstom Kej-Ef-Si duševne hrane.
15:16
We've been trained to look for happiness
in all the wrong places,
in all the wrong places,
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904053
3873
Učili su nas da sreću tražimo
na pogrešnim mestima,
na pogrešnim mestima,
15:19
and just like junk food
doesn't meet your nutritional needs
doesn't meet your nutritional needs
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907950
2770
što, baš kao što loša hrana
ne može da ispuni vaše potrebe
ne može da ispuni vaše potrebe
15:22
and actually makes you feel terrible,
361
910744
2298
i na kraju čini da se osećate očajno,
15:25
junk values don't meet
your psychological needs,
your psychological needs,
362
913066
3142
loše vrednosti ne ispunjavaju
vaše psihološke potrebe,
vaše psihološke potrebe,
15:28
and they take you away from a good life.
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916232
2642
i one vas odvlače od dobrog života.
15:30
But when I first spent time
with professor Kasser
with professor Kasser
364
918898
2623
Kada sam prvi put provodio vreme
sa profesorom Keserom,
sa profesorom Keserom,
15:33
and I was learning all this,
365
921545
1477
učeći sve ovo,
15:35
I felt a really weird mixture of emotions.
366
923046
2587
osećao sam stvarno čudne pomešane emocije.
15:37
Because on the one hand,
I found this really challenging.
I found this really challenging.
367
925657
2690
Sa jedne strane,
smatram ovo velikim izazovom.
smatram ovo velikim izazovom.
15:40
I could see how often
in my own life, when I felt down,
in my own life, when I felt down,
368
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3262
Shvatio sam koliko često sam tokom života,
kada sam se osećao loše,
kada sam se osećao loše,
15:43
I tried to remedy it with some kind of
show-offy, grand external solution.
show-offy, grand external solution.
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931657
5265
pokušao da nadomestim to nekim šepurećim,
vrhunskim spoljnim rešenjem.
vrhunskim spoljnim rešenjem.
15:49
And I could see why that
did not work well for me.
did not work well for me.
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937441
2690
Mogao sam da vidim
i zašto to nije delovalo na mene.
i zašto to nije delovalo na mene.
15:52
I also thought,
isn't this kind of obvious?
isn't this kind of obvious?
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2882
Takođe sam razmišljao:
„Nije li to očigledno?
„Nije li to očigledno?
15:55
Isn't this almost like banal, right?
372
943836
1745
Nije li to skoro banalno, zar ne?”
15:57
If I said to everyone here,
373
945605
1325
Kada bih svima vama ovde rekao:
15:58
none of you are going to lie
on your deathbed
on your deathbed
374
946954
2143
niko od vas neće na samrti
razmišljati o cipelama koje ste kupili
i o svim retvitovima koje ste dobili,
i o svim retvitovima koje ste dobili,
16:01
and think about all the shoes you bought
and all the retweets you got,
and all the retweets you got,
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949121
3316
već ćete razmišljati o momentima ljubavi,
smisla i povezanosti u svom životu.
smisla i povezanosti u svom životu.
16:04
you're going to think about moments
376
952461
1683
16:06
of love, meaning
and connection in your life.
and connection in your life.
377
954168
2111
Mislim da to deluje skoro kao kliše.
16:08
I think that seems almost like a cliché.
378
956303
1945
Nastavio sam priču
sa profesorom Kaserom rekavši:
sa profesorom Kaserom rekavši:
16:10
But I kept talking
to professor Kasser and saying,
to professor Kasser and saying,
379
958272
2349
„Zašto osećam tu čudnu podvojenost?”
16:12
"Why am I feeling
this strange doubleness?"
this strange doubleness?"
380
960645
2353
16:15
And he said, "At some level,
we all know these things.
we all know these things.
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963022
3807
On mi je odgovorio: „Na nekom nivou,
svi mi znamo te stvari.
svi mi znamo te stvari.
16:18
But in this culture,
we don't live by them."
we don't live by them."
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966853
2375
Ali u ovoj kulturi,
mi ne živimo po tim pravilima.”
mi ne živimo po tim pravilima.”
16:21
We know them so well
they've become clichés,
they've become clichés,
383
969252
2079
Toliko su nam poznata da su postala kliše,
16:23
but we don't live by them.
384
971355
1278
a opet ne živimo po tim pravilima.
16:24
I kept asking why, why would we know
something so profound,
something so profound,
385
972657
3209
Pitao sam se i dalje:
zašto bismo znali nešto tako dubokoumno,
zašto bismo znali nešto tako dubokoumno,
16:27
but not live by it?
386
975890
1286
a da ne živimo po tim pravilima?
16:29
And after a while,
professor Kasser said to me,
professor Kasser said to me,
387
977200
3404
Nakon izvesnog vremena,
profesor Kaser mi je rekao:
profesor Kaser mi je rekao:
16:32
"Because we live in a machine
388
980628
2421
„Zato što živimo u mašini
16:35
that is designed to get us to neglect
what is important about life."
what is important about life."
389
983073
3733
koja je napravljena tako da nas natera
da zanemarimo ono što je važno u životu.”
da zanemarimo ono što je važno u životu.”
Morao sam duboko da se zamislim.
16:39
I had to really think about that.
390
987260
1587
„Zato što živimo u mašini
16:40
"Because we live in a machine
391
988871
1405
16:42
that is designed to get us
to neglect what is important about life."
to neglect what is important about life."
392
990300
3678
koja je napravljena tako da nas natera
da zanemarimo ono što je važno u životu.”
da zanemarimo ono što je važno u životu.”
16:46
And professor Kasser wanted to figure out
if we can disrupt that machine.
if we can disrupt that machine.
393
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3778
Profesor Kaser je želeo da shvati
kako možemo da poremetimo tu mašinu.
kako možemo da poremetimo tu mašinu.
16:50
He's done loads of research into this;
394
998101
1873
Sproveo je gomilu
istraživanja na ovu temu.
istraživanja na ovu temu.
16:51
I'll tell you about one example,
395
999998
1555
Reći ću vam jedan primer,
16:53
and I really urge everyone here
to try this with their friends and family.
to try this with their friends and family.
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1001577
3500
i jako bih želeo da svi isprobate to
sa svojim prijateljima i porodicom.
sa svojim prijateljima i porodicom.
16:57
With a guy called Nathan Dungan,
he got a group of teenagers and adults
he got a group of teenagers and adults
397
1005101
3342
Zajedno sa likom po imenu Nejtan Dangen,
skupio je grupu tinejdžera i odraslih
skupio je grupu tinejdžera i odraslih
17:00
to come together for a series of sessions
over a period of time, to meet up.
over a period of time, to meet up.
398
1008467
4213
da zajedno dolaze na niz seansi
tokom određenog perioda, da razgovaraju.
tokom određenog perioda, da razgovaraju.
17:04
And part of the point of the group
399
1012704
1763
Poenta grupe je bila
17:06
was to get people to think
about a moment in their life
about a moment in their life
400
1014491
3300
da natera ljude da misle
o momentima iz svog života
o momentima iz svog života
17:09
they had actually found
meaning and purpose.
meaning and purpose.
401
1017815
2746
u kojima su istinski
pronašli značenje i svrhu.
pronašli značenje i svrhu.
17:12
For different people,
it was different things.
it was different things.
402
1020585
2143
Za različite ljude
to su bile različite stvari.
to su bile različite stvari.
17:14
For some people, it was playing music,
writing, helping someone --
writing, helping someone --
403
1022752
3617
Nekima je to bilo sviranje,
pisanje, pomaganje nekom -
pisanje, pomaganje nekom -
17:18
I'm sure everyone here
can picture something, right?
can picture something, right?
404
1026393
2803
siguran sam da svako ovde
može nešto da zamisli, zar ne?
može nešto da zamisli, zar ne?
17:21
And part of the point of the group
was to get people to ask,
was to get people to ask,
405
1029220
2881
Deo poente je bio da se ljudi zapitaju:
17:24
"OK, how could you dedicate
more of your life
more of your life
406
1032125
2762
„Okej, kako više života posvetiti
17:26
to pursuing these moments
of meaning and purpose,
of meaning and purpose,
407
1034911
2684
potrazi za tim momentima značenja i svrhe,
17:29
and less to, I don't know,
buying crap you don't need,
buying crap you don't need,
408
1037619
2950
a manje, ne znam,
kupovini nepotrebnih stvari,
kupovini nepotrebnih stvari,
17:32
putting it on social media
and trying to get people to go,
and trying to get people to go,
409
1040593
2722
stavljanju istih na društvene mreže
u nadi da se izazove reakcija:
u nadi da se izazove reakcija:
17:35
'OMG, so jealous!'"
410
1043339
1267
„O bože, tako sam ljubomoran!”
17:36
And what they found was,
411
1044958
1643
Ono što su otkrili je
da samo održavanje ovakvih sastanaka -
da samo održavanje ovakvih sastanaka -
17:38
just having these meetings,
412
1046625
1334
kao neka vrsta sastanaka anonimnih
alkoholičara, ali za potrošnju, zar ne? -
alkoholičara, ali za potrošnju, zar ne? -
17:39
it was like a kind of Alcoholics Anonymous
for consumerism, right?
for consumerism, right?
413
1047983
3110
17:43
Getting people to have these meetings,
articulate these values,
articulate these values,
414
1051807
2953
naterati ljude na ovakve sastanke
usmerava ih ka ovim vrednostima,
usmerava ih ka ovim vrednostima,
17:46
determine to act on them
and check in with each other,
and check in with each other,
415
1054784
2531
stvara temelj da se ponašamo u skladu
sa njima i proveravamo ih sa drugima,
sa njima i proveravamo ih sa drugima,
17:49
led to a marked shift in people's values.
416
1057339
2857
što je vodilo ka značajnoj
promeni ljudskih vrednosti.
promeni ljudskih vrednosti.
17:52
It took them away from this hurricane
of depression-generating messages
of depression-generating messages
417
1060220
4413
To ih je odvuklo od ovog uragana
depresivnih poruka
depresivnih poruka
17:56
training us to seek happiness
in the wrong places,
in the wrong places,
418
1064657
2634
koje nas uče da sreću tražimo
na pogrešnim mestima,
na pogrešnim mestima,
17:59
and towards more meaningful
and nourishing values
and nourishing values
419
1067315
3341
ka mnogo smislenijim
i zdravijim vrednostima
i zdravijim vrednostima
18:02
that lift us out of depression.
420
1070680
2000
koje nas podižu iz depresije.
18:05
But with all the solutions that I saw
and have written about,
and have written about,
421
1073347
3302
Ali nakon svih rešenja koja sam video
i o kojima sam pisao,
i o kojima sam pisao,
18:08
and many I can't talk about here,
422
1076673
2739
i mnogima o kojima ne mogu
ovde da govorim,
ovde da govorim,
18:11
I kept thinking,
423
1079436
1371
i dalje razmišljam,
18:12
you know: Why did it take me so long
to see these insights?
to see these insights?
424
1080831
3699
znate: „Zašto mi je trebalo
toliko dugo vremena da to shvatim?”
toliko dugo vremena da to shvatim?”
18:16
Because when you explain them to people --
425
1084554
2016
Zato što, kada to objasnite ljudima -
neki mogu biti malo
komplikovaniji, ali ne svi -
komplikovaniji, ali ne svi -
18:18
some of them are more
complicated, but not all --
complicated, but not all --
426
1086594
2444
18:21
when you explain this to people,
it's not like rocket science, right?
it's not like rocket science, right?
427
1089062
3244
kada to objasnite ljudima,
to nije nuklearna fizika, zar ne?
to nije nuklearna fizika, zar ne?
Podsvesno već negde znamo te stvari.
18:24
At some level, we already
know these things.
know these things.
428
1092330
2095
Zašto nam je toliko teško to da razumemo?
18:26
Why do we find it so hard to understand?
429
1094449
2637
18:29
I think there's many reasons.
430
1097110
1934
Mislim da postoje brojni razlozi.
18:31
But I think one reason is
that we have to change our understanding
that we have to change our understanding
431
1099475
4269
Jedan od njih je da moramo
da promenimo svoje razumevanje
da promenimo svoje razumevanje
18:35
of what depression
and anxiety actually are.
and anxiety actually are.
432
1103768
3420
o tome šta su zapravo
depresija i anksioznost.
depresija i anksioznost.
18:39
There are very real
biological contributions
biological contributions
433
1107776
2182
Postoje pravi biološki doprinosi
18:41
to depression and anxiety.
434
1109982
1733
depresiji i anksioznosti.
18:44
But if we allow the biology
to become the whole picture,
to become the whole picture,
435
1112117
3754
Ali ako dozvolimo da biologija
postane cela slika,
postane cela slika,
18:47
as I did for so long,
436
1115895
1246
kao što sam ja dugo činio,
18:49
as I would argue our culture
has done pretty much most of my life,
has done pretty much most of my life,
437
1117165
4065
kao što smatram da čitava kultura
čini skoro celog mog života,
čini skoro celog mog života,
18:53
what we're implicitly saying to people
is, and this isn't anyone's intention,
is, and this isn't anyone's intention,
438
1121254
3857
ono što prećutno govorimo ljudima
jeste, a to nije ničija namera,
jeste, a to nije ničija namera,
18:57
but what we're implicitly
saying to people is,
saying to people is,
439
1125135
3037
ali ono što prećutno
govorimo ljudima jeste:
govorimo ljudima jeste:
19:00
"Your pain doesn't mean anything.
440
1128196
2302
„Vaš bol ne znači ništa.
19:02
It's just a malfunction.
441
1130522
1436
To je samo kvar.
19:03
It's like a glitch in a computer program,
442
1131982
2469
Kao kvar na kompjuteru,
19:06
it's just a wiring problem in your head."
443
1134475
2667
mali kratki spoj u vašoj glavi.”
19:10
But I was only able to start
changing my life
changing my life
444
1138061
3107
Međutim, ja sam uspeo
da počnem da menjam svoj život
da počnem da menjam svoj život
19:13
when I realized your depression
is not a malfunction.
is not a malfunction.
445
1141192
4065
tek kada sam shvatio
da depresija nije kvar.
da depresija nije kvar.
19:18
It's a signal.
446
1146620
1150
To je signal.
19:20
Your depression is a signal.
447
1148684
2007
Vaša depresija je signal.
19:23
It's telling you something.
448
1151077
1841
Govori vam nešto.
19:24
(Applause)
449
1152942
4611
(Aplauz)
19:29
We feel this way for reasons,
450
1157577
2389
Osećamo se tako iz određenih razloga,
19:31
and they can be hard to see
in the throes of depression --
in the throes of depression --
451
1159990
2715
koji se teško mogu videti
kada ste u depresiji do guše -
kada ste u depresiji do guše -
19:34
I understand that really well
from personal experience.
from personal experience.
452
1162729
2610
ja to najbolje znam, iz ličnog iskustva.
19:37
But with the right help,
we can understand these problems
we can understand these problems
453
1165363
3483
Ali uz pravu pomoć,
možemo razumeti ove probleme
možemo razumeti ove probleme
19:40
and we can fix these problems together.
454
1168870
2474
i rešiti ih zajedno.
19:43
But to do that,
455
1171368
1192
Da bismo to uradili,
19:44
the very first step
456
1172584
1738
prvi korak
19:46
is we have to stop insulting these signals
457
1174346
2618
je da moramo da prestanemo
da vređamo ove signale,
da vređamo ove signale,
19:48
by saying they're a sign of weakness,
or madness or purely biological,
or madness or purely biological,
458
1176988
4192
govoreći da su oni znakovi slabosti,
ludila ili da su čisto biološki,
ludila ili da su čisto biološki,
19:53
except for a tiny number of people.
459
1181204
1935
osim za veoma mali broj ljudi.
19:55
We need to start
listening to these signals,
listening to these signals,
460
1183163
3626
Moramo početi da osluškujemo te signale,
19:58
because they're telling us
something we really need to hear.
something we really need to hear.
461
1186813
3272
zato što nam oni govore
ono što stvarno treba da čujemo.
ono što stvarno treba da čujemo.
20:02
It's only when we truly
listen to these signals,
listen to these signals,
462
1190514
5023
Samo kad istinski slušamo te signale,
20:07
and we honor these signals
and respect these signals,
and respect these signals,
463
1195561
4015
odamo im priznanje i poštujemo ih,
20:11
that we're going to begin to see
464
1199600
2247
možemo početi da uviđamo
20:13
the liberating, nourishing,
deeper solutions.
deeper solutions.
465
1201871
4158
oslobađujuće, negujuće, dublje rešenje.
20:19
The cows that are waiting all around us.
466
1207133
4073
Krave koje čekaju svugde oko nas.
20:23
Thank you.
467
1211585
1181
Hvala vam
20:24
(Applause)
468
1212790
3688
(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Johann Hari - JournalistJohann Hari spent three years researching the war on drugs; along the way, he discovered that addiction is not what we think it is.
Why you should listen
British journalist Johann Hari is the author of the New York Times best-selling book Chasing The Scream, from which his talk on addiction was adapted and for which he spent three years researching the war on drugs and questioning the ways in which we treat addiction.
He has written for many of the world’s leading newspapers and magazines, including The New York Times, Le Monde, The Guardian, New Republic, The Nation, Slate.com, and The Sydney Morning Herald. He was a columnist for the British newspaper The Independent for nine years.
Hari was twice named National Newspaper Journalist of the Year by Amnesty International, was named Gay Journalist of the Year at the Stonewall Awards -- and won the Martha Gellhorn Prize for political writing.
Johann Hari | Speaker | TED.com