ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Thordis Elva - Writer
Thordis Elva is one of the two authors of "South of Forgiveness," a unique collaboration between a survivor and perpetrator of rape.

Why you should listen

Thordis Elva is a firm believer in the healing potential of dialogue when it comes to ending the silence that shrouds sexual violence. In 2015, she was voted Woman of the Year in her native Iceland due to her tireless campaigning for gender equality.

As an award-winning writer, journalist and public speaker, Elva has utilized many different platforms for her activism, including plays, films and books. Her passion for equality extends to the internet, and she has toured extensively giving lectures about online bullying, non-consensual pornography and digital human rights to audiences such as the United Nations and the Nordic Council of Ministers.

Read a Q&A with Elva about her TED Talk on the TED Blog

More profile about the speaker
Thordis Elva | Speaker | TED.com
Tom Stranger - Co-author, landscape gardener
Tom Stranger is the co-author "South of Forgiveness."

Why you should listen

Social sciences and the outdoors have been both professional directions and personal themes for Tom Stranger. After studying social science and working in outdoor recreation, Tom Stranger's focus shifted towards working with young people with complex needs -- mental health challenges, substance addiction, homelessness and neurological impairment. His time working with young people has taught him the immense value of listening with intent.

Stranger has recently completed and thoroughly enjoyed a Master of Cultural Studies at the University of Sydney, and he has returned to work in the outdoors as a landscaper. During his studies, he was involved as a co-author in the writing of South of Forgiveness. He and the book's primary author, Thordis Elva, share the hope that in speaking up they will add their voices to the ever-growing public discourse around relations of gender and sexual violence.

Read a Q&A with Stranger about his TED Talk on the TED Blog.

More profile about the speaker
Tom Stranger | Speaker | TED.com
TEDWomen 2016

Thordis Elva and Tom Stranger: Our story of rape and reconciliation

Thordis Elva,Tom Stranger: 强奸与和解:我们的故事

Filmed:
5,570,439 views

1996年,Thordis Elva 和一位来自澳大利亚的交换生 Tom Stranger,情窦初开,发生了一段恋情。在一场校园舞会之后,Tom 强奸了 Thordis。随后,他们则分别了多年。这场非凡的演讲中,Elva 和 Stranger分享了他们多年以来的羞耻感和沉默,并邀请我们,以一种新的、坦诚的方式,探讨性暴力这一全球性话题。与演讲人的问答,请访问 go.ted.com/thordisandtom。
- Writer
Thordis Elva is one of the two authors of "South of Forgiveness," a unique collaboration between a survivor and perpetrator of rape. Full bio - Co-author, landscape gardener
Tom Stranger is the co-author "South of Forgiveness." Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
[This talk contains包含 graphic图像 language语言
and descriptions说明 of sexual有性 violence暴力
0
23
3441
该演讲包含性暴力相关图像语言和描述,
00:15
Viewer查看器 discretion慎重 is advised建议]
1
3488
1381
请酌情观看。
Tom Stranger:1996年时,我18岁。
00:16
Tom汤姆 Stranger陌生人: In 1996,
when I was 18 years年份 old,
2
4893
2956
00:19
I had the golden金色 opportunity机会 to go
on an international国际 exchange交换 program程序.
3
7873
3607
我获得了一个国际交换项目的宝贵机会。
00:24
Ironically讽刺地 I'm an Australian澳大利亚
who prefers喜欢 proper正确 icy冷冰冰 cold weather天气,
4
12071
3721
但是,我是一个,
更喜欢“适当”寒冷天气的澳大利亚人,
00:27
so I was both excited兴奋 and tearful内牛满面
when I got on a plane平面 to Iceland冰岛,
5
15816
4859
在我告别父母和兄弟们,
登上去冰岛的飞机时,
既激动,也有些伤心。
00:32
after just having farewelledfarewelled
my parents父母 and brothers兄弟 goodbye再见.
6
20699
3223
00:36
I was welcomed欢迎 into the home
of a beautiful美丽 Icelandic冰岛的 family家庭
7
24853
3055
我受到了一个非常友好的冰岛家庭的欢迎,
00:39
who took me hiking徒步旅行,
8
27932
1401
他们带着我徒步旅行,
帮助我了解音调优美的冰岛语。
00:41
and helped帮助 me get a grasp把握
of the melodic旋律 Icelandic冰岛的 language语言.
9
29357
3091
00:45
I struggled挣扎 a bit with the initial初始
period of homesickness乡思.
10
33213
2988
起初,对家乡的思念让我有些挣扎。
00:48
I snowboardedsnowboarded after school学校,
11
36225
1998
我放学后去滑雪,
也睡得很多。
00:50
and I slept a lot.
12
38247
1363
00:52
Two hours小时 of chemistry化学 class in a language语言
that you don't yet然而 fully充分 understand理解
13
40480
3938
用一门你还没能完全理解的语言,
进行两小时的化学课,
00:56
can be a pretty漂亮 good sedative镇静剂.
14
44442
1782
可以是一剂不错的“镇定剂”。
(笑声)
00:58
(Laughter笑声)
15
46248
1150
01:00
My teacher老师 recommended推荐的
I try out for the school学校 play,
16
48636
2524
我的老师建议,我尝试一下学校的戏剧活动,
01:03
just to get me a bit more socially社交上 active活性.
17
51184
2330
让我能在社交上更加积极一些。
01:06
It turns out I didn't end结束 up
being存在 part部分 of the play,
18
54094
2501
结果,我并未成功入选,
01:08
but through通过 it I met会见 ThordisThordis.
19
56619
1907
但却遇见了 Thordis。
01:11
We shared共享 a lovely可爱 teenage青少年 romance浪漫,
20
59451
2063
我们情窦初开,
01:13
and we'd星期三 meet遇到 at lunchtimes午餐时间
to just hold保持 hands
21
61538
2494
我们午餐时见面,只是为了牵个手,
在雷克雅未克的旧城中散步。
01:16
and walk步行 around old downtown市中心 Reykjav雷克雅未克ík.
22
64056
2146
01:18
I met会见 her welcoming欢迎 family家庭,
and she met会见 my friends朋友.
23
66655
3262
我见过了她热情的家人,
她也见过了我的朋友们。
01:22
We'd星期三 been in a budding芽接 relationship关系
for a bit over a month
24
70675
2774
直到学校的圣诞舞会,
01:25
when our school's学校的 Christmas圣诞 Ball was held保持.
25
73473
2247
我们萌芽中的关系,
才进行了一个月多一点时间。
01:30
ThordisThordis Elva萧亚轩: I was 16
and in love for the first time.
26
78052
3284
Thordis Elva:
那时我16岁,第一次恋爱。
01:33
Going together一起 to the Christmas圣诞 dance舞蹈
27
81797
1797
我们一起参加圣诞舞会,
01:35
was a public上市 confirmation确认
of our relationship关系,
28
83618
2797
意味着,我们之间关系的正式公开,
我觉得,我是世界上最幸运的姑娘。
01:38
and I felt like the luckiest幸运
girl女孩 in the world世界.
29
86439
2967
不再是一个孩子,
而是一个年轻的女人。
01:41
No longer a child儿童, but a young年轻 woman女人.
30
89430
2577
01:44
High on my newfound新发现 maturity到期,
31
92730
1913
在发现自己变得更加成熟,
而感到激动不已时,
01:46
I felt it was only natural自然 to try drinking
rum朗姆酒 for the first time that night, too.
32
94667
4360
我同时觉得,当晚理应
首次尝尝朗姆酒才是。
01:51
That was a bad idea理念.
33
99496
2062
那是一个错误的决定。
01:53
I became成为 very ill生病,
34
101582
1488
我变得非常不适,
在剧烈呕吐带来的痉挛期间,
01:55
drifting漂流 in and out of consciousness意识
35
103094
1820
时而意识不清。
01:56
in between之间 spasms痉挛 of convulsive抽搐的 vomiting呕吐.
36
104938
3125
02:00
The security安全 guards卫士 wanted
to call me an ambulance救护车,
37
108087
2964
保安本想帮助我叫一辆救护车,
但 Tom 如同我的英雄一般,
02:03
but Tom汤姆 acted行动 as my knight骑士
in shining闪亮的 armor盔甲,
38
111075
2989
告诉他们,他会送我回家。
02:06
and told them he'd他会 take me home.
39
114088
2035
02:08
It was like a fairy仙女 tale故事,
40
116782
1701
那就像童话故事一样,
他强壮的手臂围绕着我,
02:10
his strong强大 arms武器 around me,
41
118507
1776
把我放在我的床上。
02:12
laying铺设 me in the safety安全 of my bed.
42
120307
2291
02:15
But the gratitude感谢 that I felt
towards him soon不久 turned转身 to horror恐怖
43
123602
4527
但接下来,当他脱掉我的衣服,
压在我的身上时,
02:20
as he proceeded继续 to take off my clothes衣服
and get on top最佳 of me.
44
128153
4458
我对他的感激,转瞬变成恐惧。
02:25
My head had cleared清除 up,
45
133457
1336
我的脑袋里一片空白,
02:26
but my body身体 was still
too weak to fight斗争 back,
46
134817
3127
但我仍旧虚弱的身体,无法反抗,
并且伴随着剧烈的疼痛。
02:29
and the pain疼痛 was blinding致盲.
47
137968
2334
02:32
I thought I'd be severed切断 in two.
48
140765
2083
我感到我像是会被一分为二。
02:35
In order订购 to stay sane明智的,
49
143804
1575
为了保持清醒,
02:37
I silently默默 counted the seconds
on my alarm报警 clock时钟.
50
145403
3274
我默默地数着我闹钟上的秒数。
02:41
And ever since以来 that night,
51
149622
1735
从那天晚上开始,
02:43
I've known已知 that there are 7,200
seconds in two hours小时.
52
151381
5774
我知道了,2个小时中,
一共有7200秒。
02:51
Despite尽管 limping跛行 for days
and crying哭了 for weeks,
53
159140
3238
尽管接下来的很多天中,我都感到浑身无力,
也连续哭了好几周,
02:54
this incident事件 didn't fit适合 my ideas思路
about rape强奸 like I'd seen看到 on TV电视.
54
162402
4406
这件事, 并不符合我对电视报道中
强奸的理解。
02:59
Tom汤姆 wasn't an armed武装 lunatic疯子;
55
167361
2021
Tom 并不是一个有武器的精神错乱的人;
03:01
he was my boyfriend男朋友.
56
169406
1763
他是我的男朋友。
这件事也并非发生在一条破旧的小巷中,
03:03
And it didn't happen发生 in a seedy褴褛的 alleyway胡同,
57
171193
2609
它发生在我自己的床上。
03:05
it happened发生 in my own拥有 bed.
58
173826
2061
03:08
By the time I could identify鉴定
what had happened发生 to me as rape强奸,
59
176733
3619
直到我能够意识到,
发生在我身上的是强奸时,
03:12
he had completed完成 his exchange交换 program程序
60
180376
1991
他已经完成了交换项目,
回到了澳大利亚。
03:14
and left for Australia澳大利亚.
61
182391
1555
03:16
So I told myself it was pointless无意义
to address地址 what had happened发生.
62
184532
3643
所以,我告诉自己,
再去强调已经发生的事没有意义。
03:20
And besides除了,
63
188199
1185
此外,
某种程度上来说,我一定也有错。
03:21
it had to have been my fault故障, somehow不知何故.
64
189408
2595
03:24
I was raised上调 in a world世界
where girls女孩 are taught
65
192685
2305
我从小接受的教育认为,
03:27
that they get raped强奸 for a reason原因.
66
195014
2162
女孩被强奸一定有其原因。
03:29
Their skirt短裙 was too short,
67
197784
2565
她们的裙子太短,
03:32
their smile微笑 was too wide,
68
200373
2494
她们的笑得过于开心,
她们散发着酒气。
03:34
their breath呼吸 smelled of alcohol.
69
202891
2418
03:38
And I was guilty有罪 of all of those things,
70
206017
2766
我对所有这些都感到内疚,
03:40
so the shame耻辱 had to be mine.
71
208807
2050
所以,我应当感到羞愧。
03:43
It took me years年份 to realize实现
72
211675
1424
我花了很多年的时间,才意识到
03:45
that only one thing could have stopped停止 me
from being存在 raped强奸 that night,
73
213123
3911
那天晚上,唯一能阻止我被侵犯的,
不是我的裙子,
03:49
and it wasn't my skirt短裙,
74
217058
2142
不是我的笑容,
03:51
it wasn't my smile微笑,
75
219224
1950
更不是我幼稚的信任。
03:53
it wasn't my childish幼稚 trust相信.
76
221198
2196
03:55
The only thing that could've可能已经 stopped停止 me
from being存在 raped强奸 that night
77
223832
3734
唯一能够阻止我在那天晚上被侵犯的,
03:59
is the man who raped强奸 me --
78
227590
2050
是强奸我的那个男人——
能够阻止他自己。
04:01
had he stopped停止 himself他自己.
79
229664
2013
04:04
TSTS: I have vague模糊 memories回忆 of the next下一个 day:
80
232729
2111
Tom Stranger:因为喝了酒,
04:07
the after effects效果 of drinking,
81
235716
2314
我对第二天的记忆很模糊,
04:10
a certain某些 hollowness空虚
that I tried试着 to stifle窒息.
82
238054
2789
我试图扼制住一种空虚感。
04:13
Nothing more.
83
241631
1214
没有更多。
04:15
But I didn't show显示 up at Thordis'sThordis的 door.
84
243745
2291
但是,我并没有出现在 Thordis 的家门口。
04:19
It is important重要 to now state
85
247409
1806
现在,需要重点说明的是,
04:21
that I didn't see my deed契据 for what it was.
86
249239
2500
当时我并未认识到我行为的实质。
04:24
The word "rape强奸" didn't echo回声
around my mind心神 as it should've应该,
87
252658
3048
“强奸”这两个字,并未如其应当的那样,
在我脑海中不断浮现,
04:28
and I wasn't crucifying钉死 myself
with memories回忆 of the night before.
88
256639
3295
我也并未因为昨晚发生的事情折磨自己。
04:33
It wasn't so much a conscious意识 refusal拒绝,
89
261524
2374
那不太像是,一种有意识的拒绝,
更像是对现实的认知,遇到了阻碍。
04:35
it was more like any acknowledgment承认
of reality现实 was forbidden被禁止.
90
263922
3359
04:40
My definition定义 of my actions行动 completely全然
refuted驳斥 any recognition承认
91
268365
4114
我对自身行为的定义,完全击败了
我对给 Thordis 造成巨大伤害的认知。
04:44
of the immense巨大 trauma外伤 I caused造成 ThordisThordis.
92
272503
2277
04:48
To be honest诚实,
93
276454
1403
诚实地说,
04:49
I repudiated否定 the entire整个 act法案
in the days afterwards之后
94
277881
4094
无论是在事情发生后的那些天,
还是当时,
04:54
and when I was committing提交 it.
95
282758
1520
我否认自己的整个行为。
04:57
I disavowed已拒绝 the truth真相 by convincing使人信服
myself it was sex性别 and not rape强奸.
96
285443
4509
我说服自己,那是一场性爱而非强奸,
并以此否认事实。
05:02
And this is a lie谎言 I've felt
spine-bending脊柱弯曲 guilt有罪 for.
97
290788
3866
这个谎言,让我承受了巨大的罪恶感。
05:08
I broke打破 up with ThordisThordis
a couple一对 of days later后来,
98
296174
2247
不久之后,我和 Thordis 分了手,
05:10
and then saw her a number of times
99
298445
1644
那年,在冰岛剩下的时间里,
我时常见到她,
05:12
during the remainder
of my year in Iceland冰岛,
100
300113
2058
每次我都感到异常沉重。
05:14
feeling感觉 a sharp尖锐 stab
of heavyheartednessheavyheartedness each time.
101
302195
2893
05:18
Deep down, I knew知道 I'd doneDONE
something immeasurably没法比 wrong错误.
102
306314
3962
内心深处,我知道
我已经犯了无法估量的错误。
05:23
But without planning规划 it,
I sunk沉没 the memories回忆 deep,
103
311326
3023
但是,我并未因此而做些什么,
而是把记忆深深掩埋。
05:26
and then I tied a rock to them.
104
314373
1781
05:30
What followed其次 is a nine-year九年 period
105
318215
1746
接下来的九年,
05:31
that can best最好 be titled标题
as "Denial否认 and Running运行."
106
319985
3138
可以被称作:“否认和逃避”。
05:36
When I got a chance机会 to identify鉴定
the real真实 torment折磨 that I caused造成,
107
324010
4479
当我有机会去认识到,
由我引起的真实的痛苦时,
我并没能足够冷静地去面对。
05:40
I didn't stand still long enough足够 to do so.
108
328513
2243
05:44
Whether是否 it be via通过 distraction娱乐,
109
332102
2057
无论是通过分散注意力,
滥用药物,
05:46
substance物质 use,
110
334183
1476
寻求刺激,
05:47
thrill-seeking寻求刺激
111
335683
1618
05:49
or the scrupulous一丝不苟 policing治安
of my inner speak说话,
112
337325
3349
或者是,小心谨慎地
关注我内心的想法,
我拒绝,保持冷静和沉默。
05:52
I refused拒绝 to be static静态的 and silent无声.
113
340698
2269
05:56
And with this noise噪声,
114
344927
1460
除了这个“噪音”之外,
05:58
I also drew德鲁 heavily严重
upon other parts部分 of my life
115
346411
2969
我还不断地,拼凑我生活中的其他部分,
来解答,“我是谁”这个问题。
06:01
to construct构造 a picture图片 of who I was.
116
349404
2171
06:04
I was a surfer冲浪者,
117
352636
1230
我是一个冲浪运动员,
06:05
a social社会 science科学 student学生,
118
353890
1717
一个学习社会科学的学生,
一些好人的朋友,
06:07
a friend朋友 to good people,
119
355631
2086
一个被爱着的兄弟和儿子,
06:09
a loved喜爱 brother哥哥 and son儿子,
120
357741
2258
06:12
an outdoor户外 recreation娱乐 guide指南,
121
360023
1552
一本“户外娱乐指南”,
最终,也是一个青年工作者。
06:13
and eventually终于, a youth青年 worker工人.
122
361599
1563
06:16
I gripped抓住 tight to the simple简单 notion概念
that I wasn't a bad person.
123
364119
4002
我坚持认为,我并不是一个坏人。
06:21
I didn't think I had this in my bones骨头.
124
369460
2080
我并不认为,我天生就是这样的人。
06:24
I thought I was made制作 up of something else其他.
125
372129
2070
我想,我本应该是另一个样子。
06:26
In my nurtured培育 upbringing教养,
126
374608
1560
在对我的培养和教育中,
我充满爱的家人和榜样,
我身边的人们,
06:28
my loving爱心 extended扩展 family家庭 and role角色 models楷模,
127
376192
2346
06:31
people close to me were warm and genuine真正
128
379586
1935
都尊重女性,
06:33
in their respect尊重 shown显示 towards women妇女.
129
381545
1895
对待女性都温暖而真诚。
06:36
It took me a long time to stare down
this dark黑暗 corner of myself,
130
384717
4826
我花了很长时间,才能面对
我自身的这个黑暗角落,
并开始发问。
06:41
and to ask it questions问题.
131
389567
1634
06:46
TETE: Nine years年份 after the Christmas圣诞 dance舞蹈,
132
394231
1975
Thordis Elva:圣诞舞会过去9年后,
我25岁,
06:48
I was 25 years年份 old,
133
396230
1481
并且将要经历一场精神崩溃。
06:49
and headed当家 straight直行
for a nervous紧张 breakdown分解.
134
397735
2567
06:53
My self-worth自我价值 was buried隐藏
under a soul-crushing灵魂破碎 load加载 of silence安静
135
401098
3624
我的自我价值,被埋葬在,
让灵魂不堪重负的寂静之中,
它把我和我关心的人们隔离开,
06:56
that isolated孤立 me from everyone大家
that I cared照顾 about,
136
404746
3292
我错误地,对自己发泄的怨恨和愤怒,
07:00
and I was consumed消费
with misplaced放错地方 hatred and anger愤怒
137
408062
2905
将我消耗殆尽。
07:02
that I took out on myself.
138
410991
1764
07:05
One day, I stormed out
of the door in tears眼泪
139
413635
2610
一天,和一位我爱的人发生争执之后,
07:08
after a fight斗争 with a loved喜爱 one,
140
416269
1943
我哭着冲出门去,
07:10
and I wandered逛到 into a cafCAFé,
141
418236
1699
我走进一家咖啡店,
找女服务生要了一支笔。
07:11
where I asked the waitress小姐 for a pen钢笔.
142
419959
2082
07:14
I always had a notebook笔记本 with me,
143
422648
1846
我总是带着一个笔记本电脑,
07:16
claiming自称 that it was to jot小额 down ideas思路
in moments瞬间 of inspiration灵感,
144
424518
3733
声称,是为了捕捉一些灵感的瞬间,
但事实上,
是因为我需要随着都做点什么,
07:20
but the truth真相 was that I needed需要
to be constantly经常 fidgeting坐立不安,
145
428275
4230
因为在安静下来的时候,
07:24
because in moments瞬间 of stillness寂静,
146
432529
1887
我发现,我又会开始数秒数。
07:26
I found发现 myself counting数数 seconds again.
147
434440
2645
07:30
But that day, I watched看着 in wonder奇迹
as the words streamed out of my pen钢笔,
148
438071
5009
但那天,我惊讶地发现,
07:35
forming成型 the most pivotal关键的 letter
I've ever written书面,
149
443104
3061
我写下了,
给 Tom 的信中,最关键的一封。
07:38
addressed解决 to Tom汤姆.
150
446189
1534
07:40
Along沿 with an account帐户 of the violence暴力
that he subjected me to,
151
448295
3540
在信中,除了描述他曾让我遭受的暴力,
07:43
the words, "I want to find forgiveness饶恕"
152
451859
3183
我还写下,“我希望能够宽恕”
这句话像是盯着我,
07:47
stared盯着 back at me,
153
455066
1484
07:48
surprising奇怪 nobody没有人 more than myself.
154
456574
2415
我比任何人都感到惊讶。
07:51
But deep down I realized实现 that this
was my way out of my suffering痛苦,
155
459580
4686
但内心深处,我意识到,
这能够让我从痛苦中解脱,
07:56
because regardless而不管 of whether是否 or not
he deserved应得 my forgiveness饶恕,
156
464290
4037
因为,无论他是否值得得到我的宽恕,
我值得获得平静。
08:00
I deserved应得 peace和平.
157
468351
2486
08:03
My era时代 of shame耻辱 was over.
158
471347
3000
我这个充满羞耻的时期,已经过去。
08:08
Before sending发出 the letter,
159
476172
1499
发出信件之前,
08:09
I prepared准备 myself for all kinds
of negative responses回复,
160
477695
2747
我设想着,各种可能的消极回复,
08:12
or what I found发现 likeliest有可能的:
no response响应 whatsoever任何.
161
480466
3747
或者,我认为最后可能的是,没有回复。
08:17
The only outcome结果
that I didn't prepare准备 myself for
162
485216
2747
我唯一没能预料到的,
08:19
was the one that I then got --
163
487987
2229
是我收到的这封——
08:22
a typed类型 confession自白书 from Tom汤姆,
full充分 of disarming撤防 regret后悔.
164
490240
4911
表达忏悔的信,来自 Tom,
满是毫无防备的悔恨。
08:27
As it turns out, he, too,
had been imprisoned囚禁 by silence安静.
165
495618
4087
事实上,他同样,
也一直被“囚禁”于沉默之中。
08:32
And this marked the start开始
of an eight-year-long八年之久 correspondence对应
166
500354
4050
这成了我们之间,
随后一段长达8年时间通信的起点,
08:36
that God knows知道 was never easy简单,
167
504428
2424
上帝知道,这并不容易,
但我们一直是坦诚的。
08:38
but always honest诚实.
168
506876
2168
08:41
I relieved安心 myself of the burdens负担
that I'd wrongfully非法 shouldered,
169
509717
3587
我卸下了我本不应承担的重负,
08:45
and he, in turn, wholeheartedly竭诚
owned拥有的 up to what he'd他会 doneDONE.
170
513328
3408
他,同样的,由衷地承认他的所作所为。
08:49
Our written书面 exchanges交流 became成为 a platform平台
171
517415
2272
我们的书面交流,成了一个平台,
08:51
to dissect解剖 the consequences后果 of that night,
172
519711
2717
去剖析,那个晚上对我们的影响,
这些交流,有时令人感到极度痛苦,
08:54
and they were everything
from gut-wrenching肠痛苦
173
522452
2195
有时,却也带来超越语言的治愈。
08:56
to healing复原 beyond words.
174
524671
2554
08:59
And yet然而, it didn't bring带来 about
closure关闭 for me.
175
527613
3936
但对我而言,一切并未终结。
09:04
Perhaps也许 because the email电子邮件 format格式
didn't feel personal个人 enough足够,
176
532358
3482
也许,是因为电子邮件的形式,
并不够私人化,
09:07
perhaps也许 because it's easy简单 to be brave勇敢
177
535864
1911
也许,是因为躲藏在地球另一边的电脑屏幕前,
09:09
when you're hiding behind背后 a computer电脑
screen屏幕 on the other side of the planet行星.
178
537799
4108
勇敢,变得容易一些。
但我们开始了一个对话,
09:13
But we'd星期三 begun开始 a dialogue对话
179
541931
1786
我认为,有必要由此来探索所有的可能性。
09:15
that I felt was necessary必要
to explore探索 to its fullest最大.
180
543741
3766
09:20
So, after eight years年份 of writing写作,
181
548072
2065
所以,在通信8年之后,
09:22
and nearly几乎 16 years年份 after that dire可怕的 night,
182
550161
3706
距离那个可怕的夜晚,接近16年之后,
我鼓起勇气,提出了一个大胆的想法:
09:25
I mustered纠集 the courage勇气
to propose提出 a wild野生 idea理念:
183
553891
3831
我们应该见面,
09:29
that we'd星期三 meet遇到 up in person
184
557746
1660
面对我们的过去,一次性解决。
09:31
and face面对 our past过去 once一旦 and for all.
185
559430
2831
09:37
TSTS: Iceland冰岛 and Australia澳大利亚
are geographically地理 like this.
186
565171
3193
TS:冰岛和澳大利亚的地理位置,
像是这样。
09:41
In the middle中间 of the two is South Africa非洲.
187
569250
2247
在两者中间,是南非。
09:44
We decided决定 upon the city of Cape Town,
188
572046
2905
我们决定,在南非的开普敦,
09:46
and there we met会见 for one week.
189
574975
2044
进行一周时间的见面。
09:50
The city itself本身 proved证实 to be
a stunningly令人震惊 powerful强大 environment环境
190
578426
3470
事实证明,这座城市本身,
有着令人惊奇的强大氛围,
09:53
to focus焦点 on reconciliation和解
and forgiveness饶恕.
191
581920
2884
它能够帮助人们,专注于和解和宽恕。
09:57
Nowhere无处 else其他 has healing复原
and rapprochement和睦 been tested测试
192
585847
2639
没有其他地方像南非一样,
10:00
like it has in South Africa非洲.
193
588510
1634
有着历经检验的治愈力量和友好氛围。
10:03
As a nation国家, South Africa非洲 sought追捧
to sit within the truth真相 of its past过去,
194
591036
3867
作为一个国家,南非面对真实的过去,
10:06
and to listen to the details细节
of its history历史.
195
594927
2403
尊重历史的细节。
10:10
Knowing会心 this only magnified放大 the effect影响
that Cape Town had on us.
196
598819
3749
了解这些,更是加大了开普敦对我们的影响。
10:16
Over the course课程 of this week,
197
604006
1462
在这一周里,
10:17
we literally按照字面 spoke
our life stories故事 to each other,
198
605492
2890
由始至终,
我们相互倾诉着,各自生活中的故事。
10:20
from start开始 to finish.
199
608406
1590
10:23
And this was about analyzing分析
our own拥有 history历史.
200
611305
2500
这就是,对我们自身过往的分析。
10:27
We followed其次 a strict严格 policy政策
of being存在 honest诚实,
201
615568
2833
我们遵守,严格诚实的规则,
10:30
and this also came来了
with a certain某些 exposure曝光,
202
618425
2925
而这也带来了,一定程度的暴露,
一种因推心置腹,而带来的脆弱感。
10:33
an open-chested开放式上身 vulnerability漏洞.
203
621374
1906
10:36
There were gutting古亭 confessions自白,
204
624312
2127
这其中,有深刻的忏悔,
10:38
and moments瞬间 where we just
absolutely绝对 couldn't不能 fathom捉摸
205
626463
2824
以及,我们绝对无法完全了解的,
另一个人所经历的瞬间。
10:41
the other person's人的 experience经验.
206
629311
1808
10:44
The seismic地震 effects效果 of sexual有性 violence暴力
were spoken aloud高声 and felt,
207
632258
4894
性暴力所带来的巨大影响,
被面对面地,表达和感知。
10:49
face面对 to face面对.
208
637176
1330
10:51
At other times, though虽然,
209
639979
1503
在其他时间里,
10:53
we found发现 a soaring冲天 clarity明晰,
210
641506
2634
一些问题得以快速明晰,
10:57
and even some totally完全 unexpected意外
but liberating解放 laughter笑声.
211
645164
4400
我们甚至会意外地,发出释怀的笑声。
11:03
When it came来了 down to it,
212
651250
1530
实际上,
11:04
we did out best最好 to listen
to each other intently一心一意.
213
652804
3628
我们尽全力,认真地彼此聆听。
11:09
And our individual个人 realities现实
were aired播出 with an unfiltered未经过滤 purity纯度
214
657404
5841
我们各自的现实生活,像是被纯净的空气,
11:15
that couldn't不能 do any less
than lighten减轻 the soul灵魂.
215
663269
2376
点亮了灵魂。
11:20
TETE: Wanting婉婷 to take revenge复仇
is a very human人的 emotion情感 --
216
668508
4045
Thordis Elva:想要报复,
是一种人类非常自然的情绪——
11:24
instinctual本能, even.
217
672577
1638
甚至,是一种本能。
11:26
And all I wanted to do for years年份
218
674829
2011
这么多年,我最想做的,
11:28
was to hurt伤害 Tom汤姆 back as deeply
as he had hurt伤害 me.
219
676864
3969
就是深深地伤害Tom,像他曾伤害我那样。
11:33
But had I not found发现 a way
out of the hatred and anger愤怒,
220
681658
3053
但是,如果我未曾,
从由此而生的怨恨和愤怒中解脱,
11:36
I'm not sure I'd be standing常设 here today今天.
221
684735
2165
我不确信,我今天能够站在这里。
11:40
That isn't to say that I didn't have
my doubts疑惑 along沿 the way.
222
688058
3927
那不是说,
这一路上,我不曾有过疑虑。
11:44
When the plane平面 bounced反弹
on that landing降落 strip跳闸 in Cape Town,
223
692689
3661
当飞机降落,
颠簸在开普敦的着陆带上时,
11:48
I remember记得 thinking思维,
224
696374
1603
我记得,我在想,
“为什么我不像一个正常人会做的那样,
11:50
"Why did I not just get myself
a therapist治疗师 and a bottle瓶子 of vodka伏特加
225
698001
4206
找一个按摩师,再买一瓶伏特加?”
11:54
like a normal正常 person would do?"
226
702231
2216
(笑声)
11:56
(Laughter笑声)
227
704471
2920
有时,我们在开普敦,
寻求彼此理解这件事,
11:59
At times, our search搜索
for understanding理解 in Cape Town
228
707415
3205
像是一个不可能的探索,
12:02
felt like an impossible不可能 quest寻求,
229
710644
2167
而我只想放弃,
12:04
and all I wanted to do was to give up
230
712835
2099
回到我亲爱的丈夫 Vidir,
12:06
and go home to my loving爱心
husband丈夫, VidirVidir,
231
714958
2216
和我们的儿子身边。
12:09
and our son儿子.
232
717198
1211
12:11
But despite尽管 our difficulties困难,
233
719994
2363
尽管,存在困难,
12:14
this journey旅程 did result结果
in a victorious获胜 feeling感觉
234
722381
4628
但这趟旅程,
的确带来了一种胜利的感受,
12:19
that light had triumphed胜利 over darkness黑暗,
235
727033
3133
像是光亮战胜了黑暗,
12:22
that something constructive建设性
could be built内置 out of the ruins废墟.
236
730812
4312
废墟之中,得以建立一些益处。
12:28
I read somewhere某处
237
736572
1325
我在某处读到,
12:29
that you should try and be the person
that you needed需要 when you were younger更年轻.
238
737921
3861
你应当尝试并成为,
你年轻的时候,需要的那个人。
当我年少时,
12:33
And back when I was a teenager青少年,
239
741806
1584
我本应需要知道,我无需感到羞耻,
12:35
I would have needed需要 to know
that the shame耻辱 wasn't mine,
240
743414
3848
12:39
that there's hope希望 after rape强奸,
241
747286
2514
被强奸之后,仍有希望,
你甚至能够找到幸福,
12:41
that you can even find happiness幸福,
242
749824
1595
像我同我丈夫分享的一样。
12:43
like I share分享 with my husband丈夫 today今天.
243
751443
1890
12:45
Which哪一个 is why I started开始 writing写作 feverishly狂热
upon my return返回 from Cape Town,
244
753861
4355
因此,从开普敦一回来,
我开始兴奋地写作,
12:50
resulting造成 in a book co-authored合着 by Tom汤姆,
245
758240
2724
最终,形成一本和 Tom 共同完成的书,
我们希望这本书,
12:52
that we hope希望 can be of use
to people from both ends结束
246
760988
3185
无论对犯罪者还是幸存者,
都有帮助。
12:56
of the perpetrator-survivor犯罪者,幸存者 scale规模.
247
764197
2304
12:59
If nothing else其他,
248
767180
1454
至少,
13:00
it's a story故事 that we would've会一直 needed需要
to hear when we were younger更年轻.
249
768658
4135
这也是一个,
在我们年少时,需要去了解的故事。
13:06
Given特定 the nature性质 of our story故事,
250
774726
1821
考虑到,这个故事的性质,
13:08
I know the words
that inevitably必将 accompany it --
251
776571
2776
我知道,有一些词语,
将不可避免地,伴随它——
13:11
victim受害者, rapist强奸犯 --
252
779933
2556
受害人,强奸犯——
13:14
and labels标签 are a way to organize组织 concepts概念,
253
782513
2255
标签是组织概念的一种方法,
但他们也可能因其内涵,被非人性化。
13:16
but they can also be dehumanizing非人性化
in their connotations内涵.
254
784792
4382
13:21
Once一旦 someone's谁家 been deemed认为 a victim受害者,
255
789838
2100
一旦,某人被认定为一个受害人,
13:23
it's that much easier更轻松 to file文件 them away
as someone有人 damaged破损,
256
791962
5233
他们就更加容易被归类为,被伤害,
13:29
dishonored受辱,
257
797219
1506
遭受羞辱,
低人一等的。
13:30
less than.
258
798749
1275
13:32
And likewise同样, once一旦 someone有人
has been branded品牌 a rapist强奸犯,
259
800643
2720
同样,一旦某人被打上强奸犯的烙印,
13:35
it's that much easier更轻松
to call him a monster怪物 --
260
803387
2546
就更加容易称其为,怪物——
13:38
inhuman不人道.
261
806576
1299
非人类。
13:40
But how will we understand理解
what it is in human人的 societies社会
262
808614
3031
但是,如果我们拒绝去认识,
犯罪一方的人性之处,
13:43
that produces产生 violence暴力
263
811669
1581
我们如何能够理解,
人类社会中,究竟是什么在制造暴力?
13:45
if we refuse垃圾 to recognize认识
the humanity人性 of those who commit承诺 it?
264
813274
4479
13:50
And how --
265
818534
1164
并且,
(掌声)
13:51
(Applause掌声)
266
819722
2179
如果,我们总是让幸存者,觉得自己低人一等,
我们又如何给予他们力量呢?
13:53
And how can we empower授权 survivors幸存者
if we're making制造 them feel less than?
267
821925
5368
14:00
How can we discuss讨论 solutions解决方案
to one of the biggest最大 threats威胁
268
828072
3427
如果我们使用的词语,就是问题的一部分,
14:03
to the lives生活 of women妇女 and children孩子
around the world世界,
269
831523
3274
面对这个全球范围内,
对妇女和儿童生命的最大威胁之一,
我们如何找到解决方案呢?
14:06
if the very words we use
are part部分 of the problem问题?
270
834821
3823
14:13
TSTS: From what I've now learnt学到了,
271
841786
2492
Tom Stranger:现在,我已经意识到,
14:16
my actions行动 that night in 1996
were a self-centered以自我为中心 taking服用.
272
844302
4573
1996年那个晚上,我作出的,
是一个以自我为中心的行为。
14:22
I felt deserving值得 of Thordis'sThordis的 body身体.
273
850028
2123
我认为,我应当得到 Thordis 的身体。
14:25
I've had primarily主要 positive
social社会 influences影响
274
853743
2865
我身边,一直以来,
主要都是积极的社会影响,
14:28
and examples例子 of equitable公平
behavior行为 around me.
275
856632
2541
以及公平作为的例子,
14:31
But on that occasion场合,
276
859830
1197
但在那个场合,
14:33
I chose选择 to draw upon the negative ones那些.
277
861051
2104
我却选择利用消极的那些。
14:35
The ones那些 that see women妇女
as having less intrinsic固有 worth价值,
278
863716
2896
它们把女性看做,有(比男性)更少内在价值,
14:39
and of men男人 having some unspoken
and symbolic象征 claim要求 to their bodies身体.
279
867687
4411
认为男性对女性的身体,
有着不言自明、象征性的权利。
14:45
These influences影响 I speak说话 of
are external外部 to me, though虽然.
280
873781
3009
尽管,我提到的这些影响,
并不来自我本身。
14:49
And it was only me in that room房间
making制造 choices选择,
281
877582
2781
但只有我自己,
在那个房间里,作出了选择,
14:52
nobody没有人 else其他.
282
880387
1228
而非其他人。
14:54
When you own拥有 something
283
882969
1785
当你拥有一些什么,
14:56
and really square广场 up to your culpability有罪,
284
884778
2618
让你真正地有决心面对罪恶感时,
15:00
I do think a surprising奇怪 thing can happen发生.
285
888259
2323
我认为,的确可能发生,
令人惊讶的事情。
15:03
It's what I call a paradox悖论 of ownership所有权.
286
891249
2307
这就是我说的,拥有所带来的矛盾。
15:06
I thought I'd buckle
under the weight重量 of responsibility责任.
287
894989
2792
我原以为,我会背负责任的重担。
15:10
I thought my certificate证书
of humanity人性 would be burnt.
288
898377
2883
我原以为,我人性的证明将付之一炬。
15:14
Instead代替, I was offered提供
to really own拥有 what I did,
289
902476
3746
相反,我却被给予机会,
去真正承认我曾做过的事情,
15:19
and found发现 that it didn't possess具有
the entirety整体 of who I am.
290
907148
3260
然后发现,那并不能完整地体现,我是谁。
15:23
Put simply只是,
291
911460
1361
简单地说,
15:24
something you've doneDONE doesn't have
to constitute构成 the sum of who you are.
292
912845
4516
你曾做过的事,并不必然会构成你的全部。
15:30
The noise噪声 in my head abated减弱.
293
918659
1658
我脑中的噪音变少。
15:32
The indulgent放纵的 self-pity自怜
was starved饥饿 of oxygen,
294
920951
4028
曾经被放纵的自怨自艾,像是极度缺氧,
15:37
and it was replaced更换
with the clean清洁 air空气 of acceptance验收 --
295
925003
4473
而它,却被如清新空气一般的接受,所替代——
15:42
an acceptance验收 that I did hurt伤害
this wonderful精彩 person standing常设 next下一个 to me;
296
930658
4284
接受,我的确伤害了,
站在我身边的这位美好的女性;
15:46
an acceptance验收 that I am part部分 of a large
and shockingly令人吃惊 everyday每天 grouping分组 of men男人
297
934966
5599
接受,我同样属于日常生活中,
一直对伴侣有性暴力的、
庞大且令人惊讶的、男性的一员。
15:52
who have been sexually violent暴力
toward their partners伙伴.
298
940589
2682
15:56
Don't underestimate低估 the power功率 of words.
299
944931
2409
不要低估了,语言的力量。
16:00
Saying to ThordisThordis that I raped强奸 her
changed my accord符合 with myself,
300
948372
4641
向Thordis承认是我侵犯了她,
改变了我的自我认知,
16:05
as well as with her.
301
953037
1260
也改变了我对她的认知。
16:07
But most importantly重要的,
302
955517
1472
但最重要的,
16:09
the blame transferred转入 from ThordisThordis to me.
303
957013
3076
责备从 Thordis 转向了我。
16:13
Far too often经常,
304
961331
1151
常见的是,
性暴力中的责任,被归咎于女性幸存者,
16:14
the responsibility责任 is attributed由于
to female survivors幸存者 of sexual有性 violence暴力,
305
962506
4584
16:19
and not to the males男性 who enact制定 it.
306
967114
2511
而非,作出性暴力行为的男性。
16:22
Far too often经常,
307
970736
1150
常见的是,
16:23
the denial否认 and running赛跑 leaves树叶 all parties派对
at a great distance距离 from the truth真相.
308
971910
5082
拒绝和逃避,让各方离真相越来越远。
16:30
There's definitely无疑 a public上市
conversation会话 happening事件 now,
309
978984
2780
目前,已经有更多关于此的公众讨论,
16:34
and like a lot of people,
310
982371
2179
像很多人一样,
由于,大家变得更少逃避,
这一艰难却重要的讨论,
16:36
we're heartened欢欣鼓舞
that there's less retreating撤退
311
984574
2590
16:39
from this difficult
but important重要 discussion讨论.
312
987188
2720
我们,因此得到鼓励。
16:43
I feel a real真实 responsibility责任
to add our voices声音 to it.
313
991028
3638
我感到,有责任加入我们的声音。
16:50
TETE: What we did is not a formula
that we're prescribing处方 for others其他.
314
998072
4659
Thordis Elva:我们所做的,不是从他人学来的公式。
16:55
Nobody没有人 has the right to tell anyone任何人 else其他
how to handle处理 their deepest最深 pain疼痛
315
1003182
5533
没有人有权利,告诉任何其他人,
如何处理,内心深处的痛苦,
或者是,犯过的,最大的错误。
17:00
or their greatest最大 error错误.
316
1008739
1745
17:03
Breaking打破 your silence安静 is never easy简单,
317
1011336
2351
打破沉默,总是不容易的,
17:05
and depending根据 on where
you are in the world世界,
318
1013711
2214
它取决于,你在这个世界所处的地方,
在一些地方,可能公开谈及强奸,
甚至会带来致命的后果。
17:07
it can even be deadly致命
to speak说话 out about rape强奸.
319
1015949
3212
17:12
I realize实现 that even the most
traumatic创伤 event事件 of my life
320
1020088
4066
我意识到,即使是我生命中,
最具创伤性的事件,
17:16
is still a testament遗嘱 to my privilege特权,
321
1024178
2759
仍然,是我拥有特权的证明。
因为,我能够谈论它,而不会被排斥,
17:18
because I can talk about it
without getting得到 ostracized排斥,
322
1026961
3230
更不会被杀害。
17:22
or even killed杀害.
323
1030215
1348
17:24
But with that privilege特权 of having a voice语音
324
1032293
2929
但是,虽然,我拥有这项发声的特权,
17:27
comes the responsibility责任 of using运用 it.
325
1035246
2858
随之而来的是,还有使用它的责任。
17:30
That's the least最小 I owe
my fellow同伴 survivors幸存者 who can't.
326
1038733
4530
这至少是,我能为,和我一样、
却不能发声的幸存者们所做的。
17:36
The story故事 we've我们已经 just relayed中继 is unique独特,
327
1044841
3066
我们接连讲述的这个故事,是独一无二的,
17:39
and yet然而 it is so common共同 with sexual有性
violence暴力 being存在 a global全球 pandemic流感大流行.
328
1047931
4666
但是,在性暴力正成为一个全球性现象的背景下,
又是如此平常。
但并不一定会如此。
17:44
But it doesn't have to be that way.
329
1052621
2405
17:47
One of the things that I found发现 useful有用
on my own拥有 healing复原 journey旅程
330
1055741
3016
在我自己的治愈过程中,我发现一件有用的事,
就是对性暴力,进行自我教育。
17:50
is educating教育 myself about sexual有性 violence暴力.
331
1058781
2648
17:53
And as a result结果,
I've been reading, writing写作
332
1061453
2414
事实上,这十多年间,
我一直在进行,
针对这一话题的阅读、写作和演讲,
17:55
and speaking请讲 about this issue问题
for over a decade now,
333
1063891
2653
参加全球的各种会议。
17:58
going to conferences会议 around the world世界.
334
1066568
2552
以我的经验看来,
18:01
And in my experience经验,
335
1069144
1979
这类会议的参会人,大多只有女性。
18:03
the attendees与会者 of such这样 events事件
are almost几乎 exclusively women妇女.
336
1071147
4631
18:09
But it's about time that we stop treating治疗
sexual有性 violence暴力 as a women's女士的 issue问题.
337
1077013
6616
是时候,我们停止,
把性暴力,只当做一个女性议题了。
18:15
(Applause掌声)
338
1083653
5447
(掌声)
18:29
A majority多数 of sexual有性 violence暴力
against反对 women妇女 and men男人
339
1097069
4044
大多数,针对女性和男性的性暴力,
18:33
is perpetrated犯下 by men男人.
340
1101137
1883
是由男性进行。
在(关于性暴力的)讨论中,
他们的声音却极少出现。
18:35
And yet然而 their voices声音 are sorely非常
underrepresented代表性不足 in this discussion讨论.
341
1103044
4408
18:40
But all of us are needed需要 here.
342
1108842
3901
我们所有人的观点,都是被需要的。
18:45
Just imagine想像 all the suffering痛苦
we could alleviate缓和
343
1113744
3885
设想,如果我们敢于,
共同面对这一问题,
有多少痛苦,可以被缓解。
18:49
if we dared to face面对 this issue问题 together一起.
344
1117653
3934
18:54
Thank you.
345
1122880
1158
谢谢。
18:56
(Applause掌声)
346
1124062
4267
(掌声)
Translated by Emma Wang
Reviewed by Lipeng Chen

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Thordis Elva - Writer
Thordis Elva is one of the two authors of "South of Forgiveness," a unique collaboration between a survivor and perpetrator of rape.

Why you should listen

Thordis Elva is a firm believer in the healing potential of dialogue when it comes to ending the silence that shrouds sexual violence. In 2015, she was voted Woman of the Year in her native Iceland due to her tireless campaigning for gender equality.

As an award-winning writer, journalist and public speaker, Elva has utilized many different platforms for her activism, including plays, films and books. Her passion for equality extends to the internet, and she has toured extensively giving lectures about online bullying, non-consensual pornography and digital human rights to audiences such as the United Nations and the Nordic Council of Ministers.

Read a Q&A with Elva about her TED Talk on the TED Blog

More profile about the speaker
Thordis Elva | Speaker | TED.com
Tom Stranger - Co-author, landscape gardener
Tom Stranger is the co-author "South of Forgiveness."

Why you should listen

Social sciences and the outdoors have been both professional directions and personal themes for Tom Stranger. After studying social science and working in outdoor recreation, Tom Stranger's focus shifted towards working with young people with complex needs -- mental health challenges, substance addiction, homelessness and neurological impairment. His time working with young people has taught him the immense value of listening with intent.

Stranger has recently completed and thoroughly enjoyed a Master of Cultural Studies at the University of Sydney, and he has returned to work in the outdoors as a landscaper. During his studies, he was involved as a co-author in the writing of South of Forgiveness. He and the book's primary author, Thordis Elva, share the hope that in speaking up they will add their voices to the ever-growing public discourse around relations of gender and sexual violence.

Read a Q&A with Stranger about his TED Talk on the TED Blog.

More profile about the speaker
Tom Stranger | Speaker | TED.com